“The Left” vs. The Working Class

Hi, I'm a Douchebag and my name is This Guy

From Nick Pell at Red Star Times

“The Communist Party cannot fulfill its mission except by preserving, completely and unconditionally, its political and organizational independence apart from all other parties and organizations within and without the working class.” – L. Trotsky

I am frequently maligned and attacked for not supporting “the left.” Slings and arrows thrown my way include admonishments to “get behind the real movement” and appeals for a “united front” from people who clearly don’t understand what the term means. However, it’s worth pointing out (once again) that I don’t consider building “the left” to be the task of a socialist. The task of a socialist is to help the working class organize to take power. Rather than building block along the road towards this end, the left is perhaps the largest impediment to working class politics both domestically and internationally. Whether you think of the left as being the Democratic Party or any number of social democratic and Stalinist parties internationally matters not at all. The point is, wherever you go in the world the left plays an indispensable role in keeping the working class shackled to the capitalist state.

Full Article at Red Star Times

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  • CC

    >The task of a socialist is to help the working class organize to take power.

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…

    Oh, wait — you're serious?

    http://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-content/uploads/

    • Andrew

      Nice chart. Fortunately Capitalism has never gone through such changes or had such failures, proving that it is Eternal Truth.

      • Hadrian999

        unfortunately capitalism exists nowhere in practice,
        we have a new aristocracy based on old money
        and control of government defending the ruling class from any competition
        and crushing any who look for a different way

        • 5by5

          I understand what you're saying, but I would characterize it differently. I'd say you see absolutely pure cancer-stage capitalism taking place now – where it eats the host. And that this unregulated capitalism has been backed up by oligarchy, which allowed it to grow. Relentless growth for the sake of growth is the philosophy of the cancer cell. That is what we're seeing now, and why our country is in the shitter, and why Greece is in hell right now.

    • 5by5

      Your little graph there misses the entire history of the last decade in Latin America where literally every country in South America (save for Columbia and Paraguay) and most in Central America has been taken over by democratically-elected socialist governments, and are the better for it.

      • Marxist Bullshit

        If by “better for it” we mean “impoverished and smitten with crime, then sure.

        And we’ll not even talk about how many of those elections are extremely suspicious.

        • bobbiethejean

          As “impoverished and smitten with crime,”as they may be, they are better off than they were under the Banana republics operated by conservatards and they are getting better everyday.

    • Tuna Ghost

      Man everytime I see that “CC” tag I know some retarded bullshit is gonna follow

  • David Frost

    ……and this site went from a fairly intelligent one to a retarded one one in one article.

    • http://www.redstartimes.com Nick

      Haters gonna hate…

      • dumbsaint

        fuck em

        Good article and I respect you for it

        • Marxist Bullshit

          Dumbass Propaganda-Spouting Totalitarians gonna spout Dumbass Totalitarian Propaganda . . .

        • bobbiethejean

          No it’s not, it’s a shitty article. I’m not even talking from a leftist perspective, I’m talking from the perspective of a writing and literature enthusiast. The article is vague, features muddy definitions, generalizes several entire classes of people, is not supported by fact, and the one solid contention it makes (the left pits itself against the working class) is absurd and demonstrably flat wrong on its face.  

  • Hadrian999

    the biggest impediment to working class politics is the working class,
    if they were capable of forming or implementing a grand vision well, they wouldn't be working class.

    • 5by5

      Sorry, but bull. As I mentioned, Latin America alone disproves that little theory. Especially Argentina. You should watch Naomi Klein's documentary “The Take” to fully understand why I say this.

      The biggest impediment to the working class in this country, is that they've bought into the propaganda of the rightwing, and essentially vote against their own best interests.

      I think Bill Maher assessed this most accurately back in the 90's when he said, “People are being pissed upon, and others are pissing on them. The Republican's 'product' is the notion that if you vote for them, some day, if you pray hard enough and are ruthless enough, YOU TOO can be one of the pissers, as opposed to the pissed upon. Of course only about 1% ever get to do the pissing, but they're selling you that dream. I mean, that's what 'trickle down theory' is! They're telling you, 'We're GOING to piss on you!' The Democrats are selling something different. They'll tell you, 'They're going to piss on you,' then hand you an umbrella.”

      I would append that to say that Democratic Socialists are selling, “Whoever is trying to piss on you and yours? We'll cut his dick off so he never gets the chance.”

      • Hadrian999

        the power won't stay in the hands of the working class long if they ever actually have it,
        they'll hand it off to someone in a slick suit and a phony smile. the working can achieve things in the short run but it is always as the pawn of someone else

        • 5by5

          “To rise above being a peasant you have to stop thinking like one”

          This I would agree with.

          But where we disagree perhaps is with the notion that it has to be this “be crappy to others or they'll crap on you” dichotomy.

          All of that “survival of the fittest” be more brutal than the next guy stuff is based on a false sense of scarcity. It's a choice. And a poor one.

          I'm always amused when business geeks try to use Darwin to buffer their excuses as to why they're being such jerks, when clearly, they haven't read the entire theory of evolution. A big part of Darwinian notions of how a species thrives is also the evidence that there is a significant survival benefit from cooperation and sharing of resources – even between entirely different species, much less within your own. And also there is the principle of transcendence, that species will sometimes simply spontaneously change just to see if they can find a new advantage in acting differently.

          We are the species that doesn't HAVE to live by our baser instincts. We have access to other choices that mere animals do not. It really isn't “kill or be killed” any more. Indeed, with the level of weaponry we actually possess, that philosophy is inherently suicidal. And indeed as recent events have proven, even from an economic standpoint that behavior is downright dangerous to the future health and welfare of everyone.

          We have to begin to see with better eyes.

          And we'd all have enough for everyone's need, if it weren't for a few people's greed.

          • Hadrian999

            you don't have to be an asshole but you do have to step outside of being a cog in someone else's machine
            to some that is being a viscous backstabber, to others it's merely being self employed acting for yourself and not being someone else's dog

            it would be great if we could all get along and share, but unless r=everyone agrees then those who do will just be food for those who don't, good luck on getting people to take a drastic lifestyle tumble to help people they don't know, sure there will be some saints but the majority wouldnt go for it. just getting what you need is no way to live.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Prisoner's Dilemma, anyone?

            That certainly seems rational; one feels that a simple look around is enough to confirm the truth in that. But I think on the grander scale of things, it is simply ignorance of one's role in the system that leads to the abuses, and we are slowly learning the effects of that ignorance.

          • Marxist Bullshit

            >>I’m always amused when business geeks try to use Darwin to buffer their excuses as to why they’re being such jerks, when clearly, they haven’t read the entire theory of evolution. <>We have to begin to see with better eyes.

            And we’d all have enough for everyone’s need, if it weren’t for a few people’s greed.
            <<

            Shucks, it's too bad preachy Hippie collectivist maxims don't hold up in objective reality.

      • Marxist Bullshit

        “I think Bill Maher assessed this most accurately back ”

        Well, there’s your first problem. Find a reliable source (hack comedians and Hollywood agitpropumentaries don’t count), and then you can come back and lecture everyone on propaganda.

        • bobbiethejean

          CLASSIC ad hominem. Instead of attacking the contention, you attack the source. Typical conservatard. ;

  • Tuna Ghost

    Man everytime I see that “CC” tag I know some retarded bullshit is gonna follow

  • Marxist Bullshit

    Dumbass Propaganda-Spouting Totalitarians gonna spout Dumbass Totalitarian Propaganda . . .

  • Marxist Bullshit

    If by “better for it” we mean “impoverished and smitten with crime, then sure.

    And we’ll not even talk about how many of those elections are extremely suspicious.

  • Marxist Bullshit

    “I think Bill Maher assessed this most accurately back ”

    Well, there’s your first problem. Find a reliable source (hack comedians and Hollywood agitpropumentaries don’t count), and then you can come back and lecture everyone on propaganda.

  • Marxist Bullshit

    >>I’m always amused when business geeks try to use Darwin to buffer their excuses as to why they’re being such jerks, when clearly, they haven’t read the entire theory of evolution. <>We have to begin to see with better eyes.

    And we’d all have enough for everyone’s need, if it weren’t for a few people’s greed.
    <<

    Shucks, it's too bad preachy Hippie collectivist maxims don't hold up in objective reality.

  • Marxist Bullshit

    >>The task of a socialist is to help the working class organize to take power.<<

    Really? You wouldn't know it from the fact that socialism/communism is an inherently totalitarian system of control that has done nothing but oppress and murder the working class for the past 100 years.

    • Andrew

      Nice tu quoque.

      Also, nice hitting the like button on all your own comments?

    • bobbiethejean

      Spoken like a true Koolaid drinker. Communism might not work out so well but socialism seems to be working quite wonderfully and happily for scores of countries that art economically and generally doing far better than America.

  • Marxist Bullshit

    >>The task of a socialist is to help the working class organize to take power.<<

    Really? You wouldn't know it from the fact that socialism/communism is an inherently totalitarian system of control that has done nothing but oppress and murder the working class for the past 100 years.

  • Andrew

    Nice tu quoque.

    Also, nice hitting the like button on all your own comments?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    Vague definitions, even vaguer contentions, sweeping generalization about several entire, classes of people, no real purpose, point, or direction. This article is shite, and no, not because I’m a liberal, because it’s actively, objectively shite. This article comes across as someone trying too hard to appear clever. “Oooh, look at me, I can use big words and I know politics! HUR-hurrrr. 

    The only real, solid contention absurdly pits the left against the working class which BLOWS MY MIND considering that the left has historically fought hard for the working class and won many victories on their behalf, not the least of which are unions, Social Security, medicare, medicaid, and an economic model that overwhelmingly favors and supports the middle class. Look throughout history and you’ll find, incontestably, the working class ALWAYS fairs better under liberal policies. (It is important to make the liberal =/= democrat distinction because today, democrats are no longer liberal, they’re just spineless quavering pussies who kowtow to the republicunts). 

    Next time, organize and support your argument with facts instead of shitting into a textfield.

  • bobbiethejean

    Vague definitions, even vaguer contentions, sweeping generalization about several entire, classes of people, no real purpose, point, or direction. This article is shite, and no, not because I’m a liberal, because it’s actively, objectively shite. This article comes across as someone trying too hard to appear clever. “Oooh, look at me, I can use big words and I know politics! HUR-hurrrr. 

    The only real, solid contention absurdly pits the left against the working class which BLOWS MY MIND considering that the left has historically fought hard for the working class and won many victories on their behalf, not the least of which are unions, Social Security, medicare, medicaid, and an economic model that overwhelmingly favors and supports the middle class. Look throughout history and you’ll find, incontestably, the working class ALWAYS fairs better under liberal policies. (It is important to make the liberal =/= democrat distinction because today, democrats are no longer liberal, they’re just spineless quavering pussies who kowtow to the republicunts). 

    Next time, organize and support your argument with facts instead of shitting into a textfield.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    No it’s not, it’s a shitty article. I’m not even talking from a leftist perspective, I’m talking from the perspective of a writing and literature enthusiast. The article is vague, features muddy definitions, generalizes several entire classes of people, is not supported by fact, and the one solid contention it makes (the left pits itself against the working class) is absurd and demonstrably flat wrong on its face.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    Spoken like a true Koolaid drinker. Communism might not work out so well but socialism seems to be working quite wonderfully and happily for scores of countries that art economically and generally doing far better than America.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    As “impoverished and smitten with crime,”as they may be, they are better off than they were under the Banana republics operated by conservatards and they are getting better everyday.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    CLASSIC ad hominem. Instead of attacking the contention, you attack the source. Typical conservatard. ;

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