Climate Change Wars Heating Up In Court

In the southern hemisphere the dueling camps of climate change believers and non-believers are starting to take their grievances to court, as reported by news.com.au:

Scientists have hit back at climate change sceptics, with a paper affirming the case that greenhouse gas emissions from human activities are the main cause of warming.

The Australian Academy of Science yesterday went on the front foot to clear up confusion after challenges to warming theories.

It came as New Zealand’s National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research faced a legal challenge by sceptics group Climate Science Coalition.

The coalition has launched high court action over the institute’s climate data.

Academy past president Kurt Lambeck said the scientific statement aimed to boost climate change understanding.

The role of CO2 in the atmosphere was well understood and unless greenhouse gas emissions were reduced, an upward trend in global temperatures would continue.

“The available evidence implies that greenhouse gas emissions from human activities are the main cause (of warming),” Prof Lambeck said. If emissions continued at business-as-usual rates, temperatures would rise significantly.

Records over millions of years showed that a stable climate could not be taken for granted. Measurements over the past 100 years showed that as CO2 levels rose, the Earth also warmed.
Scientists say it is important to have debate on climate change, but spurious attacks were taking up an increasing amount of time to debunk.

In NZ, the coalition’s statement of claim calls for the country’s temperature record to be set aside and for NIWA to produce a “full and accurate” temperature record.

NZ Climate Change Research Institute senior researcher Professor Andy Reisinger said NIWA had checked its records, validated long-term trends with thousands of meteorological stations around the world and answered innumerable queries.

“The coalition has not put forward any clear and consistent scientific arguments against this local or global temperature trend; has not published its views in scientific peer-reviewed journals; has not disclosed its own scientific methods by which it claims to show that there has been a cooling rather than warming; and its members have little credibility,” Prof Reisinger said…

[continues at news.com.au]

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  • sabretruthtiger

    Unbelievable how these crooks can lie like that when there is ZERO evidence that CO2 is a problem, and ZERO evidence of significant Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    If there's evidence….WHY DON'T THEY PROVIDE IT???!!!!!!!

    Hey, I can provide some facts………
    The Earth has been warming steadily for 300 years, well before humans could've had any impact, and cooled for the past 8 years. As the climate has been steadily warming naturally, independent of human influence, then of course the hottest days are going to be at the end of the record!!! So claiming the hottest days/years being evidence of AGW is a fallacy.

    The medieval Warm period was warmer than today, Global ice levels are normal and sea levels have not risen significantly for 60 years.
    Sea temperatures according tothe ARGO buoys deployed years ago show no increase! there goes the 'hidden warmth' theory of the Alarmists.

    Also climate models and IPCC predictions vastly exaggerate warming, they overstate CO2 levels, and exaggerate climate sensitivity forcing equations for CO2. They propose a fictional runaway feedback effect as the CO2 heats up the oceans which then release more CO2 into the atmosphere in a vicious circle. While this feedback does happen to a certain extent, not only is CO2 a lesser greenhouse gas in terms of contribution, the greenhouse effect is counterbalanced by other factors. For instance, the climate models vastly exaggerate upper tropospheric water vapour leading to understated Outgoing Longwave Radiation, and thus vastly exaggerating warming.
    In reality, Increased cumulonimbic convection and humidity creates more return flow subsidence and radiative mass sinking, leading to less upper tropospheric water vapour. This leads to more OLR escaping and thus less warming.

    The models also ignore or understate low level clouds resulting from increased humidity that reflects radiation back to space and cools the planet.

    The mid tropospheric hotspot that should be there according to the IPCCs greenhouse gas warming contribution projections is NOT there.

    Lindzen (you might have heard of him, the top climate scientist in the world) has studied the climate for 40 years and has plotted the satellite data that shows that Outgoing radiation goes UP with surface warming, NOT down as the IPCC suggests.

    Sea acidification is also complete rubbish as even if all the CO2 in the atmosphere was dissolved in water it would not even come close to approaching a neutral PH, let alone acid.
    Corals, crustaceans and other life forms flourish with more CO2.

    Add to that all the data tampering and manipulation, for example the Darwin tampering, the elimination of weather stations from higher altitudes, the attempted removal of the mediaeval warming period, and the bullying of scientists who didn't support the AGW scam, in other words the bullying of scientists with a least a shred of conscience and morality and you have a 100% certainty that AGW is a scam.

    That's called providing empirical and logical scientific analysis, as opposed to merely claiming a conclusion without explaining the inferences and preceding premises that led to the fallacious conclusion.

    • Connie Dobbs

      I want to meet you, and I will conduct an experiment by sticking you in an airtight box and pumping a mixture of CO2, bitrogen and oxygen in, about comparable to our atmosphere. I will slowly increase the level of CO2 and decrease the amount of oxygen. Then I'll get arrested for attempted murder, but they'll let me off when they find out that you want to do the same thing to everyone else in the world. Hell, I might get a medal.

      PS: They have, they have, they have, you're just a stubborn jackass who refuses to accept it. Of course, if you were to tell the truth in your opening statement, you might have to stick to it for the rest of the post. And at that point, you might as well just shut the fuck up, put down the crack pipe and your copy of the Holy Fountainhead, and perform one of the following tasks (your choice):

      a. take a science class, 8th grade chemistry should be enough to convince you
      b. kill yourself,
      c. Shut the fuck up about shit that you know absolutely nothing about. You're not a scientist, you're not even a researcher. You don't know ANY of the stuff you said. You got it off of another proud ignoramus, who got it off of another proud ignoramus, and so on, and so on. Eventually, you'll find a scientist who supports your claim, at least when they're not claiming that the moon landing was faked or bitching about the “academic elites” who fired you from your cushy community college teaching gig because you tried to prove creationism with peanut butter.

      You're ignorant. Either don't be, or keep it to your self. No one cares how stupid you are.

      • FergalR

        Heh, everything sabre says is true but Connie doesn't want to hear it. Tell us the mechanism by which AGW is going to allow you to “live in america and watch you all die” Con. You twisted fuck.

        • Connie Dobbs

          (everything sabre says is incomplete)

          I got a nice place up near the border of canada, it's very cool and wooded, it should keep me alive long enough to watch the show.

          Ignoramus. You poor dying fool. I'm sorry that the future of civilization is less valuable to you than your SUV. I am also sorry that you hate America.

      • Global Hoax

        ok, first, how much has the amount of co2 increased in the last 300 years? Second, are you going to also provide plant life in this closed environment? Third, you meet all qualifications of a disinfo fag shill. Dude above you actually provided a bit of fact, then you come in with this kid shit lol. Ehh… Fuckin people like you piss me off…

        • Connie Dobbs

          Well no one was measuring it in 1710, so I can't give you an accurate number. About 70 ppm in the past 150 years though. I'm sure that's not enough for you, though, there's always an extremely complicated conspiracy theory about corrupt scientists spreading lies so they can get rich off of grant money (ha ha fucking ha on that one).

          Honestly, as I've stated before, I don't care. If humanity doesn't want to survive, I can't make that happen. I only have a few years left myself, and I have no children, so it's no skin off my back if you all suffocate.

  • Your Mom

    How could anyone be skeptical of global warming?

    Well, I have a lot of respect for scientists. They've accomplished many important, impressive things.

    But scientists have also made many alarmist predictions about IMMEDIATE CRISES that ONLY SCIENTISTS CAN FIX!!!!1!

    Failed scientific predictions:

    1. “Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest. Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F.” — Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University in Time Magazine’s June 24th, 1975 article Another Ice Age?

    2. “Stomach ulcers are caused by stress” — accepted medical diagnosis, until Dr. Marshall proved that H. pylori caused gastric inflammation by deliberately infecting himself with the bacterium.

    3. “If I had thought about it, I wouldn’t have done the experiment. The literature was full of examples that said you can’t do this.” — Spencer Silver on the work that led to the unique adhesives for 3-M “Post-It” Notepads.

    4. “Space travel is bunk.” — Sir Harold Spencer Jones, Astronomer Royal of the UK, 1957 (two weeks later Sputnik orbited the Earth).

    5. “There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.” — Albert Einstein, 1932

    6. “Radio has no future. Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible. X-rays will prove to be a hoax.” — William Thomson, Lord Kelvin, British scientist, 1899.

    7. “I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” — Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

    8. “That virus is a pussycat.” — Dr. Peter Duesberg, molecular-biology professor at U.C. Berkeley, on HIV, 1988

    9. “The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives.” — Admiral William Leahy, U.S. Atomic Bomb Project

    10. “The earth’s crust does not move”- 19th through early 20th century accepted geological science. See Plate Tectonics

    1. “There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.” — Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC), maker of big business mainframe computers, arguing against the PC in 1977.

    2. “We will never make a 32 bit operating system.” — Bill Gates

    3. “Lee DeForest has said in many newspapers and over his signature that it would be possible to transmit the human voice across the Atlantic before many years. Based on these absurd and deliberately misleading statements, the misguided public … has been persuaded to purchase stock in his company …” — a U.S. District Attorney, prosecuting American inventor Lee DeForest for selling stock fraudulently through the mail for his Radio Telephone Company in 1913.

    4. “There is practically no chance communications space satellites will be used to provide better telephone, telegraph, television, or radio service inside the United States.” — T. Craven, FCC Commissioner, in 1961 (the first commercial communications satellite went into service in 1965).

    5. “To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth – all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances.” — Lee DeForest, American radio pioneer and inventor of the vacuum tube, in 1926

    6. “A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth’s atmosphere.” — New York Times, 1936.

    7. “Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical (sic) and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.” – Simon Newcomb; The Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk 18 months later.

    8. “Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.” — Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist, president of the British Royal Society, 1895.

    9. “There will never be a bigger plane built.” — A Boeing engineer, after the first flight of the 247, a twin engine plane that holds ten people

    10. “Nuclear-powered vacuum cleaners will probably be a reality in 10 years.” -– Alex Lewyt, president of vacuum cleaner company Lewyt Corp., in the New York Times in 1955.

    11. “This is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives.” — Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to the Commander in Chief of the Army
    and Navy during World War II, advising President Truman on the atomic bomb, 1945.[6] Leahy admitted the error five years later in his memoirs

    12. “The energy produced by the breaking down of the atom is a very poor kind of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine.” — Ernest Rutherford, shortly after splitting the atom for the first time.

    13. “There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.” — Albert Einstein, 1932

    14. “The cinema is little more than a fad. It’s canned drama. What audiences really want to see is flesh and blood on the stage.” -– Charlie Chaplin, actor, producer, director, and studio founder, 1916

    15. “The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty – a fad.” — The president of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer, Horace Rackham, not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903

    16. “The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.” — Sir William Preece, Chief Engineer, British Post Office, 1878.

    17. “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.” — A memo at Western Union, 1878 (or 1876).

    18. “The world potential market for copying machines is 5000 at most.” — IBM, to the eventual founders of Xerox, saying the photocopier had no market large enough to justify production, 1959.

    19. “I must confess that my imagination refuses to see any sort of submarine doing anything but suffocating its crew and floundering at sea.” — HG Wells, British novelist, in 1901.

    20. “X-rays will prove to be a hoax.” — Lord Kelvin, President of the Royal Society, 1883.

    21. “The idea that cavalry will be replaced by these iron coaches is absurd. It is little short of treasonous.” — Comment of Aide-de-camp to Field Marshal Haig, at tank demonstration, 1916.

    22. “How, sir, would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you, excuse me, I have not the time to listen to such nonsense.” — Napoleon Bonaparte, when told of Robert Fulton’s steamboat, 1800s.

    23. “Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever.” — Thomas Edison, American inventor, 1889 (Edison often ridiculed the arguments of competitor George Westinghouse for AC
    power).

    24. “Home Taping Is Killing Music” — A 1980s campaign by the BPI, claiming that people recording music off the radio onto cassette would destroy the music industry.

    25. “Television won’t last. It’s a flash in the pan.” — Mary Somerville, pioneer of radio educational broadcasts, 1948.

    26. “[Television] won’t be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.” — Darryl Zanuck, movie producer, 20th Century Fox, 1946.

    27. “When the Paris Exhibition [of 1878] closes, electric light will close with it and no more will be heard of it.” – Oxford professor Erasmus Wilson

    28. “Dear Mr. President: The canal system of this country is being threatened by a new form of transportation known as ‘railroads’ … As you may well know, Mr. President, ‘railroad’ carriages are pulled at the enormous speed of 15 miles per hour by ‘engines’ which, in addition to endangering life and limb of passengers, roar and snort their way through the countryside, setting fire to crops, scaring the livestock and frightening women and children. The Almighty certainly never intended that people should travel at such breakneck speed.” — Martin Van Buren, Governor of New York, 1830(?).

    29. “Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of asphyxia.” — Dr Dionysys Larder (1793-1859), professor of Natural Philosophy and Astronomy, University College London.

    30. “The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to no one in particular?” — Associates of David Sarnoff responding to the latter’s call for investment in the radio in 1921.

    • http://www.irish-poems.com irishpoetry

      Yes, but the thing that Dr. Marshall failed to realise is that H.pylori is brought on through stress.

  • Jack Mildram

    Rather telling: the deniers attempt to use the courts to bully, the scientists use *science*. It shouldn't be difficult to work out who to trust in this 'debate'.

    • FergalR

      Rather telling: you slur the vast majority of the population of the planet by calling them deniers and then invoke science without actually stating any scientific evidence.

      Suspicious that this is your first comment. Are you a sock-puppet of the usual AGW chorus on these pages?

      • Connie Dobbs

        Rather telling – you trust the vast majority of the human population. That makes you stupider than they are.

        I will say that I am no longer in favor of climate change legislation, but only because I want people like you to choke on it. The more people who die from their own ignorance the better chance the human race as a whole has of surviving.

        • FergalR

          You're a typical environmentalist: vicious and ignorant. It's regrettable that you hate democracy. Go live in North Korea, thanks.

          • Andrew

            Projection.

          • FergalR

            Is that meant for me Andrew? You shouldn't use words you don't know the meaning of.

          • Andrew

            I know the meaning of it, and it is meant for you. Anybody who reads your comments can see it's usually you who resorts to ad hominem first.

            I await your assassination of my character.

          • FergalR

            Jack up there used the word “deniers” in his first post. How could I assassinate your character, you're a genius!

          • Andrew

            You know what the word “usually” means, right?

            Also, being a genius doesn't mean one has good character.

          • FergalR

            Usually means more often than not. I cordially invite you to prove what you say or STFU.

          • Andrew

            I appreciate your cordiality, otherwise I'd suspect you were being vicious.

            Shutting the fuck up now.

          • let.them.eat.cock
          • Connie Dobbs

            Actually, I'm quite well educated on anthropomorphic climate change. I believe instead, I will live in america and watch you all die. It's fun, like watching Jersey Shore. If you'd like me to move to north korea, I suggest you raise your army now, sir. It would take a large one.

          • FergalR

            You claim to be quite well educated on AGW and also believe it will kill everyone in your country. Depressing. North Korea would suit you, their carbon footprint is among the smallest in the world:
            http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/

          • Connie Dobbs

            Yeah, fucking reality. Depressing shit, isn't it. Some of us just aren't wired for denial.

  • http://www.irish-poems.com irishpoetry

    Yes, but the thing that Dr. Marshall failed to realise is that H.pylori is brought on through stress.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Steneck/100001439800721 Bob Steneck

    Brief Summary:CO2/DOSE NOT = GLOBAL WARNING
    OR ENCOMPASS THE PROBLEM
    The Bright Morning Stars will restore
    the Bio-Electrode Magnesium Levels in our Atmosphere will restore by
    producing Molly Cellulite
    That life will rebuilt itself and we can maintain our planet with
    light, care, and reduce the energy required .With Seven Satellite it
    will require and the cooperation of all cities and every nations
    within range not use Public Lighting unless need.
    The start up cost is enormous, but the cost is low to preserve the
    only earth we have and THE MEMBRANE ARE WORLD REQUIRES AND REPAIR
    give all children what is their better
    AND LET THEM LIVE

    look at the moon it.s quit a thing to view orange eclipse,s DAILY.;
    as well the carbohydrate,s In random species GLOBAL
    Robert Steneck

    1995the norther hemisphere is risen temp do to ring of fire and
    activity and more SNOW MELTS FROM BELOW.
    i told them it would require FIFTEEN YEAR,S TO PREVENT WEN REPOSED
    WE HAVE A GRATER ISSUES WE CAN ESTIMATE IN DUR ONLY 22% SERVILE RATE I THY WANT TO DANCE THAT PEOPLE
    THANK YOU

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Steneck/100001439800721 Bob Steneck

    Brief Summary:CO2/DOSE NOT = GLOBAL WARNING
    OR ENCOMPASS THE PROBLEM
    The Bright Morning Stars will restore
    the Bio-Electrode Magnesium Levels in our Atmosphere will restore by
    producing Molly Cellulite
    That life will rebuilt itself and we can maintain our planet with
    light, care, and reduce the energy required .With Seven Satellite it
    will require and the cooperation of all cities and every nations
    within range not use Public Lighting unless need.
    The start up cost is enormous, but the cost is low to preserve the
    only earth we have and THE MEMBRANE ARE WORLD REQUIRES AND REPAIR
    give all children what is their better
    AND LET THEM LIVE

    look at the moon it.s quit a thing to view orange eclipse,s DAILY.;
    as well the carbohydrate,s In random species GLOBAL
    Robert Steneck

    1995the norther hemisphere is risen temp do to ring of fire and
    activity and more SNOW MELTS FROM BELOW.
    i told them it would require FIFTEEN YEAR,S TO PREVENT WEN REPOSED
    WE HAVE A GRATER ISSUES WE CAN ESTIMATE IN DUR ONLY 22% SERVILE RATE I THY WANT TO DANCE THAT PEOPLE
    THANK YOU

21
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