10 Reasons Why Flu Shots Are More Dangerous Than Flu Itself

SneezeFrom BeWellBuzz.com:

The verdict is out on flu shots. Many medical experts now agree it is more important to protect yourself and your family from the flu vaccine than the flu itself. Let’s take a look at the reasons behind this verdict:

1.) There is a total lack of real evidence that young children even benefit from flu shots. A systematic review of 51 studies involving 260,000 children age 6 to 23 months found no evidence that the flu vaccine is any more effective than a placebo. Also the shots are only able to protect against certain strains of the virus, which means that if you come into contact with a different strain of virus you will still get the flu.

2.) Medical journals have published thousands of articles revealing that injecting vaccines can actually lead to serious health problems including harmful immunological responses and a host of other infections. This further increases the body’s susceptibility to the diseases that the vaccine was supposed to protect against.

3.) Ever noticed how vaccinated children within days or few weeks develop runny noses, pneumonia, ear infections and bronchiolitis? The reason is the flu virus introduced in their bodies which creates these symptoms. It also indicates immuno-suppression i.e. lowering of the immunity. The flu vaccines actually do not immunize but sensitize the body against the virus.

4.) Its a known fact that Flu vaccines contain strains of the flu virus along with other ingredients. Now think about the impact such a vaccine can have over someone with a suppressed immune system? If you have a disease that is already lowering your body’s ability to fight a virus, taking the flu shot will put your body in danger of getting the full effects of the flu and make you more susceptible to pneumonia and other contagious diseases…

[continues at BeWellBuzz.com]

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  • Hunter_Rose5

    i’m instinctively suspect of any information that doesnt cite its references or sources of data.could anyone post them please?

  • Hunter_Rose5

    i’m instinctively suspect of any information that doesnt cite its references or sources of data.could anyone post them please?

    • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

      There is none, flu shots give herd immunity to certain strains of flu, making it more difficult for an epidemic to take hold. They are not magical shields from disease, they are just good social policy.

      • Pharmboy

        The Tuskeegee airmen were following good social policy too. Don’t be sheeple. Question the answers and make your own decisions.

        • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

          Stop drinking your own pee and wake up. Everyone agrees, the Tuskegee
          Airmen incident was a crime against humanity itself but voluntary
          vaccinations have saved millions of lives. To compare the two is lunacy.

          • 5by5

            How exactly is it voluntary if you are required to have shots before your children can attend school? Or if you’re ordered to get a vaccine before you’re deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan?

            Even if you were to make the case about the latter of those two examples that it’s an “all-volunteer Army”, many people “volunteer” because there are no other jobs in their communities, or because its the only way they can afford an education in this batcrap crazy country where our priorities are out of whack.

            And even those who knew full-well that they would be giving up a certain portion of their rights and could risk being shot AT, may not have fully understood that the shots they were getting on the way to the Gulf War or these latest debacles would mean they’d be “volunteering” to get a cocktail of shit that would give them neurological problems for decades to come.

  • Pgjohnw

    never again, got a flu shot 2 years ago, the next week i got sick, almost died

  • Pgjohnw

    never again, got a flu shot 2 years ago, the next week i got sick, almost died

  • Iluvit23

    never had 1 never will

  • Iluvit23

    never had 1 never will

  • http://twitter.com/OuterBanksGuy prb

    99.99% of people don’t know the difference between a cold and the flu. The flu takes weeks to fully recover from and people often die from it. This story is completely undocumented and itself is dangerous disinformation.

  • http://twitter.com/OuterBanksGuy prb

    99.99% of people don’t know the difference between a cold and the flu. The flu takes weeks to fully recover from and people often die from it. This story is completely undocumented and itself is dangerous disinformation.

    • Celina

      i find it hard to believe that people cant tell the difference between a cold and the flu? a cold is horrible the flu is a nightmare! i think more likly 99% can tell the difference.

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        You have a very optimistic view of people’s intelligence. Near 50% of Americans fall into the category of “Jesus walked with dinosaurs” believers. The number of people who believe that the Earth is larger than the sun is much larger than you want to know. The volume of people who are absolutely certain that there is no such thing as species adaption or evolution is past a third of the US and rising.

        I think we’d be very lucky if one person in ten could tell the difference between a cold and a serious case of the flu.

        • 5by5

          VoxMagi: “Near 50% of Americans fall into the category of “Jesus walked with dinosaurs” believers. The number of people who believe that the Earth is larger than the sun is much larger than you want to know. The volume of people who are absolutely certain that there is no such thing as species adaption or evolution is past a third of the US and rising.”

          Ok, now there you have me. That part is true. :-)

  • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

    Get your flu shots, don’t listen to this drivel. As someone else has pointed out a cold is not a flu, the flu can kill you, weaken your immune system and increase your risk for other diseases.

    For 30 years I have gotten my flu shot and only had the flu twice. My brother refuses to get his –because he is a ‘drink your own pee’ conspiracy nutter– and he gets the flu almost every year.

  • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

    Get your flu shots, don’t listen to this drivel. As someone else has pointed out a cold is not a flu, the flu can kill you, weaken your immune system and increase your risk for other diseases.

    For 30 years I have gotten my flu shot and only had the flu twice. My brother refuses to get his –because he is a ‘drink your own pee’ conspiracy nutter– and he gets the flu almost every year.

    • Jbl

      I’m not disagreeing with you, but for me personally, I don’t get a flu shot. I got one in the mid-90’s, my arm hurt for weeks and I got a mild case of flu symptoms. I haven’t gotten a flu shot since, and I only got something resembling the flu twice, and once it was diagnosed as bronchitis.

    • gemmarama

      i’ve never had a flu shot, and i’ve never had the flu.

      that’s all i got.

  • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

    There is none, flu shots give herd immunity to certain strains of flu, making it more difficult for an epidemic to take hold. They are not magical shields from disease, they are just good social policy.

  • Celina

    i find it hard to believe that people cant tell the difference between a cold and the flu? a cold is horrible the flu is a nightmare! i think more likly 99% can tell the difference.

  • Celina

    i think if people ate a genuinely healthy diet they would’nt get colds and the flu. ive been eating relatively healthy for quite sometime now and i never get sick. so no need for any vaccines that incedently make drug companies millions of pounds/dollers. studies have shown that more people who are given vaccines get the illnesses its supposed to protect you against than those who dont have the relevent vaccines. also vaccines can cause other illnesses making another trip to the chemist and lining the greedy drug companies pockets even more.

  • Celina

    i think if people ate a genuinely healthy diet they would’nt get colds and the flu. ive been eating relatively healthy for quite sometime now and i never get sick. so no need for any vaccines that incedently make drug companies millions of pounds/dollers. studies have shown that more people who are given vaccines get the illnesses its supposed to protect you against than those who dont have the relevent vaccines. also vaccines can cause other illnesses making another trip to the chemist and lining the greedy drug companies pockets even more.

    • Celina

      i wanted to add that their is an excellent book on the subject called ‘the medical mafia’. when i was a child i lived above a doctors surgery my mum was a receptionist there. i had every vaccine going and i was always ill. i never went to one kids party due to illness. (a bit more recently) any time in the past that ive had a cold or the flu ive taken olive leaf capsules and ive been well again within 2 days.

    • Haystack

      “studies have shown that more people who are given vaccines get the illnesses its supposed to protect you against than those who dont have the relevent vaccines. ”

      That’s why we all have polio and smallpox, right?

      • Celina

        thats NOT what i said. im just saying if you have a polio or a smallpox vaccine you have a greater chance of getting it. that doesnt mean loads of people will get it who do have the vaccine.

        • Haystack

          But it follows from what you said. If vaccines increased your chances of contracting the disease, then the smallpox and polio epidemics would have gotten worse when vaccines were introduced; instead they’ve been nearly eradicated.

        • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

          there’s a graveyard on my family’s property up north. some of the graves date back through the 1900s into the 1800’s. the family records include the names of every death from smallpox and Spanish flu. These people farmed their own food, organic as hell, before modern chemistry screwed everything up. Their diet was mostly vegetables and fruits when the season was right…with meat when there was enough to spare and kill an animal for supper. Their diet was better than yours or mine…their lifestyle was one of hard work outdoors…they were tougher than most of us could hope to be…they still died.

          people died by the hundreds of thousands from diseases prior to inoculation via vaccine…sometimes whole households in just a few weeks…but guess what….after the arrival of vaccination as a preventative treatment…not one death in the entire family from disease in the last 70 years.

          coincidence? I don’t think so.

        • Tuna Ghost

          …except that doesn’t follow at all from the history of polio and smallpox, now does it. In fact, quite the opposite has been true.

  • Celina

    i wanted to add that their is an excellent book on the subject called ‘the medical mafia’. when i was a child i lived above a doctors surgery my mum was a receptionist there. i had every vaccine going and i was always ill. i never went to one kids party due to illness. (a bit more recently) any time in the past that ive had a cold or the flu ive taken olive leaf capsules and ive been well again within 2 days.

  • Haystack

    Propaganda pieces like this are written by people with highly ideological, anti-vaccine agendas, and are filled with falsehoods and half-truths. For example, the item about the flu shot containing dangerous levels of mercury–A mercury-based substance (thimerosal) is used as a preservative in the *manufacturing process* of some vaccines, but you’re actually exposed to more mercury from a portion of fish than you are from a flu shot. It sounds ominous, though, so intellectually dishonest activists are happy to deploy it in their panic-mongering rhetoric. They aren’t concerned with the facts; they are “true believers” who will say anything that seems to support their cause.

    There is a real body count attached to this kind of medical misinformation. In recent years we have seen outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases like whooping cough because people like Jenny McCarthy are drumming up paranoia on the talk show circuit. Before you put this stuff out, think hard about it, and of what the implications are if you’re wrong.

  • Haystack

    Propaganda pieces like this are written by people with highly ideological, anti-vaccine agendas, and are filled with falsehoods and half-truths. For example, the item about the flu shot containing dangerous levels of mercury–A mercury-based substance (thimerosal) is used as a preservative in the *manufacturing process* of some vaccines, but you’re actually exposed to more mercury from a portion of fish than you are from a flu shot. It sounds ominous, though, so intellectually dishonest activists are happy to deploy it in their panic-mongering rhetoric. They aren’t concerned with the facts; they are “true believers” who will say anything that seems to support their cause.

    There is a real body count attached to this kind of medical misinformation. In recent years we have seen outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases like whooping cough because people like Jenny McCarthy are drumming up paranoia on the talk show circuit. Before you put this stuff out, think hard about it, and of what the implications are if you’re wrong.

    • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

      With a grandad who was a country doctor for almost 50 years, I got all my shots like clockwork all the way through childhood. Guess what…I’m healthy as a horse, no allergies, no ear problems, no autism, no mysterious ailments of any kind. Cripes…I smoke drink and eat whatever I want and still can’t even be bothered to get high blood pressure. That’s nothing to do with the shots…but they sure didn’t seem to hurt ;-)

      I used to hear stories of how, in the 50s, people who were conspiracy minded and generally scared crapless of their own shadow were absolutely certain that shots were a government plan to kill them all…and that the doctor…being Catholic…was secretly planning to baptize their children for the Pope. It took giving his own kids shots live on stage after displaying the vaccine to get people to vaccinate. Surprise…shortly afterwards, rubella, mumps, small pox, diphtheria, polio, whooping cough and more all vanished from the national scene as mass murderers of children and adults alike.

      Coincidence…maybe…but I doubt it.

      Also…there were no random inexplicable outbreaks of Catholicism either.

    • Marklar_Prime

      Perhaps you’d care to inject a can of tuna directly into your bloodstream and tell us how you feel afterward, just to test your theory, for science, y’know.

      • 5by5

        Or, as in the case of soldiers being deployed, get not just one shot of that directly into your bloodstream, but like 7 or 8 of those shots, all within a short time-period, with exactly zero research done about the impact on the human body of close vaccination protocols like that having been done to verify whether it’s safe before proceeding. Just line ‘em up, and stick ‘em like a porcupine.It’s called aggregate toxicity, folks, and it’s hardly ever researched. Single drugs may be tested (and if Vioxx is any example, even that’s sketchy) but not the kind of broad spectrum, drug interaction, long-term effects research that should be done prior to injection on the masses. Otherwise thimerisol would never have been in a vaccine to begin with, not to mention posilac in milk, or post-processed chemical fertilizer in our water supply (which is of course, stealing our vital fluids.)

  • Haystack

    “studies have shown that more people who are given vaccines get the illnesses its supposed to protect you against than those who dont have the relevent vaccines. ”

    That’s why we all have polio and smallpox, right?

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    With a grandad who was a country doctor for almost 50 years, I got all my shots like clockwork all the way through childhood. Guess what…I’m healthy as a horse, no allergies, no ear problems, no autism, no mysterious ailments of any kind. Cripes…I smoke drink and eat whatever I want and still can’t even be bothered to get high blood pressure. That’s nothing to do with the shots…but they sure didn’t seem to hurt ;-)

    I used to hear stories of how, in the 50s, people who were conspiracy minded and generally scared crapless of their own shadow were absolutely certain that shots were a government plan to kill them all…and that the doctor…being Catholic…was secretly planning to baptize their children for the Pope. It took giving his own kids shots live on stage after displaying the vaccine to get people to vaccinate. Surprise…shortly afterwards, rubella, mumps, small pox, diphtheria, polio, whooping cough and more all vanished from the national scene as mass murderers of children and adults alike.

    Coincidence…maybe…but I doubt it.

    Also…there were no random inexplicable outbreaks of Catholicism either.

  • Celina

    thats NOT what i said. im just saying if you have a polio or a smallpox vaccine you have a greater chance of getting it. that doesnt mean loads of people will get it who do have the vaccine.

  • Haystack

    But it follows from what you said. If vaccines increased your chances of contracting the disease, then the smallpox and polio epidemics would have gotten worse when vaccines were introduced; instead they’ve been nearly eradicated.

  • Butter Knife

    Before I go any further, I’d like to make clear that I am NOT an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist, I am not against modern medicine, and I support talking every reasonable step to ensure your health and well-being.

    With that said, the majority of the population probably shouldn’t get flu shots. They don’t need them, because they are highly unlikely to experience death or other serious medical trauma even if they do contract the flu. Giving people shots who don’t actually need them costs a tremendous amount of resources, and does put them at greater risk of associated complications (infections from contaminated equipment or vaccine doses, allergic reactions, unexpected drug interactions with other medication, etc.). For much the same reason you don’t give anti-depressants to people who show no signs of depression “just in case” it is irresponsible to give the flu shot to people who are not really endangered by the flu.

    People who probably SHOULD get the flu shot are those who are healthy enough for the shot but at real risk should they contract the flu, medical professionals or others who routinely interact with individuals who have suppressed immune systems, people who tend to suffer routinely badly from the flu and those who have some other, specific, reason to get it. Again, the flu shot is not necessarily bad, but it is never advisable for people to take unnecessary, extraneous medication.

  • Butter Knife

    Before I go any further, I’d like to make clear that I am NOT an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist, I am not against modern medicine, and I support talking every reasonable step to ensure your health and well-being.

    With that said, the majority of the population probably shouldn’t get flu shots. They don’t need them, because they are highly unlikely to experience death or other serious medical trauma even if they do contract the flu. Giving people shots who don’t actually need them costs a tremendous amount of resources, and does put them at greater risk of associated complications (infections from contaminated equipment or vaccine doses, allergic reactions, unexpected drug interactions with other medication, etc.). For much the same reason you don’t give anti-depressants to people who show no signs of depression “just in case” it is irresponsible to give the flu shot to people who are not really endangered by the flu.

    People who probably SHOULD get the flu shot are those who are healthy enough for the shot but at real risk should they contract the flu, medical professionals or others who routinely interact with individuals who have suppressed immune systems, people who tend to suffer routinely badly from the flu and those who have some other, specific, reason to get it. Again, the flu shot is not necessarily bad, but it is never advisable for people to take unnecessary, extraneous medication.

    • Amarvin

      thank you. Seems like crazies go to one extreme of an issue or another. nice to hear some sanity and logic

      • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

        Flu Shots aren’t for healthy people but healthy people still need to get
        them primarily because they can be carriers without symptoms, allowing
        mutations to arise without treatment. That puts people with weaker immune
        systems at risk, regardless if they have had a flu vaccine because healthy
        people give the flu a longer time to mutate into something that the vaccine
        does not guard against.

        If you have young children/old folks/AIDs patients for the love of god,
        immunize yourselves. You are playing with their lives.

    • Haystack

      There’s also the issue of “herd immunity.” A vaccine only enhances your resistance against a disease; you can still get it. If flu shots were only given to people were at particular risk, they wouldn’t do as much good because they would be more frequently exposed to the disease from younger, healthier low-risk types who are not vaccinated. Having a large percentage of the population vaccinated can really suppress the transmission of a disease so that the high-risk people don’t get it either.

    • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

      Well said…I’ve got too many relatives in the medical biz…nurses, PTs, a cpl doctors…they all get shots regularly…because they all deal with so many people that even though they are healthy…they have an increased risk of contraction.

      So they get shots like clockwork…not one case of autism…no sudden deaths or weird diseases…all healthy as can be…including three marathon enthusiasts. (I consider them mentally unbalanced…but physically healthy).

      Robustly healthy people don’t need flu vaccinations unless their career exposes them to lots of sick people. You perfectly spelled out the differences in need and priorities…good on ya!

      • 5by5

        And their patients still have a better chance of getting sick IN a hospital that outside of one, because doctors do stupid crap like wear bacteria-infected neckties dragging them from hospital room to hospital room. All so they can “look authoritative”.

  • Pharmboy

    As a member of the pharmaceutical industry for almost 20 yrs, I absolutely refuse to get immunized. The strain that was used was in a controlled lab, never mutated, and took 8 – 12 months to manufacture. How many times do you think it mutated ” in the wild”?

    Live like your grandparents. Lots of rest, lots of nutrition, a bit of exercise every day, no fast food. If it doesn’t look like food, it’s not.

    Finally, raw materials come from the cheapest vendor (China) and they have no compunctions about poisoning us. Look up Baxter on wikipedia…all the lawsuits are listed. The source…poor quality from China.

  • Pharmboy

    As a member of the pharmaceutical industry for almost 20 yrs, I absolutely refuse to get immunized. The strain that was used was in a controlled lab, never mutated, and took 8 – 12 months to manufacture. How many times do you think it mutated ” in the wild”?

    Live like your grandparents. Lots of rest, lots of nutrition, a bit of exercise every day, no fast food. If it doesn’t look like food, it’s not.

    Finally, raw materials come from the cheapest vendor (China) and they have no compunctions about poisoning us. Look up Baxter on wikipedia…all the lawsuits are listed. The source…poor quality from China.

  • Pharmboy

    The Tuskeegee airmen were following good social policy too. Don’t be sheeple. Question the answers and make your own decisions.

  • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

    Stop drinking your own pee and wake up. Everyone agrees, the Tuskegee
    Airmen incident was a crime against humanity itself but voluntary
    vaccinations have saved millions of lives. To compare the two is lunacy.

  • Amarvin

    thank you. Seems like crazies go to one extreme of an issue or another. nice to hear some sanity and logic

  • http://fontofliberty.blogspot.com/ Rarian Rakista

    Flu Shots aren’t for healthy people but healthy people still need to get
    them primarily because they can be carriers without symptoms, allowing
    mutations to arise without treatment. That puts people with weaker immune
    systems at risk, regardless if they have had a flu vaccine because healthy
    people give the flu a longer time to mutate into something that the vaccine
    does not guard against.

    If you have young children/old folks/AIDs patients for the love of god,
    immunize yourselves. You are playing with their lives.

  • What?

    I’m not anti-vaccine, but I’m not necessarily pro-child flu shot. I’d be more convinced if the author of this piece of deliberate ignorance actually had references to back up the “10 Reasons Why…”. Perhaps a college-level introductory biology course is in order here…

  • What?

    I’m not anti-vaccine, but I’m not necessarily pro-child flu shot. I’d be more convinced if the author of this piece of deliberate ignorance actually had references to back up the “10 Reasons Why…”. Perhaps a college-level introductory biology course is in order here…

  • Anonymous

    I don’t get any shots. I’ve had the flu twice in the last ten years

  • oman28

    I don’t get any shots. I’ve had the flu twice in the last ten years

    • Tuna Ghost

      I don’t use condoms. I’ve never acquired HIV or any other fluid-spread STD.

      …you see how my comment doesn’t mean jack shit to anyone, and it is completely useless in a logical discussion? Does it…look familiar?

      • oman28

        Don’t worry. You’ll find a use for condoms one day. I’m sure there’s a woman out there who is ugly enough, desperate enough and completely lacking in good judgement who will show you what to do

        …you see how my comment is not constructive at all, and is just a childish attack meant to make me look better than you?….Does it ….look familiar?

        • Tuna Ghost

          Way to dodge the issue, buddy. Fact is, unsupported personal anecdotes that refer to a supposed correlation are of no use whatsoever in this discussion. But personal insults are a great way to go too, I bet it’s impossible for anyone to think you don’t know what you’re doing now. Impossible.

          • oman28

            Wow One whole week to cobble together another little caustic reply which is “of no use whatsoever in this discussion”
            Fact is unsupported personal anecdotes are of huge importance to the ‘unsupported person’ That means the fact that I don’t need vaccines however offensive to you, is of greater significance to me than any skewed data you could produce. Hence my comment
            Now swim away little fishy apparition

          • Tuna Ghost

            Wow you really just admitted that unsupported bullshit is more important to you than facts? I’ll keep that in mind for the future.

            Meanwhile, your unsupported personal anecdote about a correlation you’ve allegedly noticed in your personal life may be more valuable to you, but that does not explain how it would be of any use to anyone else or to the discussion in general. We dont’ know who you are. For all I know you could be (oh god I hope not) a teenager, or a Browns fan, or someone equally dismissed by anyone with an education.

            But I’m gathering that helpfully adding to the discussion really isn’t your concern, but rather telling us about your life. There are blogs for that, buddy.

          • oman28

            Look, I think you have read more into my initial comment than I intended to convey so I’d like to clear this up.
            Firstly, let me just say that I agree with you about anecdotal evidence. It has no place in scientific deduction or conclusion as it can’t be relied on to be either true or accurate Therefore it can not be used to support any data based scientific conclusion. That is the point you are making, yes?

            My comment was brief because to add more would have been to do what you have accused me of doing.Of using my personal annecdote to prove other commentors right or wrong which was never my intention I did not go on to state that “therefore vaccines are unnecessary” or “so everybody should be like me” etc

            So why leave leave such a comment? Well I believe that this site is an open public forum where anyone can post any kind of comment they like. I wasn’t aware of any guidelines or parameters for leaving comments. In fact I have read many comments from people who have told annecdotes and given personal insights into their lives and I find it enjoyable.My comment is of value to the forum (if not the scientific discussion) because I believe there are other people out there who are like me and may gain something from reading it.If you consider a comment to be of no use to the discussion you should just discard it rather than leaving a sarcastic reply. Or perhaps make your point more civilly

            May I also address the point I tried to make (rather badly) in my second reply. I know you don’t agree with this and I’m not trying to convince you of anything rather I am just explaining how I perceive this. Annecdotal evidence is still ‘evidence’ to the person concerned. If a person experiences something and then reliable scientific evidence says that it can’t be true or the opposite is true then the person is much more likely to discard the scientific evidence than the personal experience. Annecdotal evidence exists out there because it is human experience and if it is not used to prove anything the it should be welcome.

            I’m sorry I left sarcastic responses but I was just reacting (mirroring?) to yours

      • justagirl

        uuuuuh. so… it’s an illogical comment (THAT YOU POSTED HERE)? now, I’M confused.

  • Jbl

    I’m not disagreeing with you, but for me personally, I don’t get a flu shot. I got one in the mid-90’s, my arm hurt for weeks and I got a mild case of flu symptoms. I haven’t gotten a flu shot since, and I only got something resembling the flu twice, and once it was diagnosed as bronchitis.

  • Haystack

    There’s also the issue of “herd immunity.” A vaccine only enhances your resistance against a disease; you can still get it. If flu shots were only given to people were at particular risk, they wouldn’t do as much good because they would be more frequently exposed to the disease from younger, healthier low-risk types who are not vaccinated. Having a large percentage of the population vaccinated can really suppress the transmission of a disease so that the high-risk people don’t get it either.

  • Levi

    I am a Nurse, regardless of your diet, and stupid pomegranate or acai juice, infections are infections, and any portal of entry via a wound, the mouth, nose or any other exposed entry into the body will allow a pathogen in to take hold. Diet plays a role in it, but it does not stop you from getting HIV, Hepatitis, Polio or MRSA, etc. Some require heavy medication, and others preventable by a Vaccination.

    So please, the hysteria ? Give it a rest. I have to get my vaccinations, without choice, in order to protect my patients- it is an ethical obligation. I am alive and well, but annoyed at this ‘personal opinion based’ facts, not actual facts or truth at all. I want to write an article on how eating a lot of chocolate everyday and smoking will do me no harm or make me fat- but I can’t, because I would be an idiot, such as the person who wrote this article and those who subscribe to these ideas.

    Believe it or not, I consider myself a radical Nurse- I had a tough time during my time at University because I did question and challenge everything, my instructors hated me, almost as much as corporate sales reps trying to get the next generation of Nurses to support their product.

    One thing, I concluded though, despite my resistance to the status quo:
    Vaccines are, in simple terms, safe, and perform an important role in health and society.
    Or you can die of polio. Your choice really.

  • Levi

    I am a Nurse, regardless of your diet, and stupid pomegranate or acai juice, infections are infections, and any portal of entry via a wound, the mouth, nose or any other exposed entry into the body will allow a pathogen in to take hold. Diet plays a role in it, but it does not stop you from getting HIV, Hepatitis, Polio or MRSA, etc. Some require heavy medication, and others preventable by a Vaccination.

    So please, the hysteria ? Give it a rest. I have to get my vaccinations, without choice, in order to protect my patients- it is an ethical obligation. I am alive and well, but annoyed at this ‘personal opinion based’ facts, not actual facts or truth at all. I want to write an article on how eating a lot of chocolate everyday and smoking will do me no harm or make me fat- but I can’t, because I would be an idiot, such as the person who wrote this article and those who subscribe to these ideas.

    Believe it or not, I consider myself a radical Nurse- I had a tough time during my time at University because I did question and challenge everything, my instructors hated me, almost as much as corporate sales reps trying to get the next generation of Nurses to support their product.

    One thing, I concluded though, despite my resistance to the status quo:
    Vaccines are, in simple terms, safe, and perform an important role in health and society.
    Or you can die of polio. Your choice really.

    • Grek

      Your comment is entirely comprised of ‘personal opinion based’ facts and irrelevant personal anecdotes. Just because you are a nurse does not mean you are an authority on the subject. You obviously are not. Do you know for a fact that all vaccines are safe and could never in any way harm anyone?

      • Haystack

        Just about any form of medical intervention carries risks. The stuff that is risk free is usually risk free because it doesn’t do anything (e.g., homeopathy).

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        Actually…earning a degree as an RN does make the opinion more than just opinion. I just lived through a spouse getting that RN…believe me…they know more than you do…more than I do…more than most of them ever wanted to know.

        Irrelevant personal anecdotes and personal conjecture are what the critics of vaccinations rely on…while the authority on the subject rests with the person who spent a cpl years or more in college…studying that specific subject as well as dozens of others.

        Not so irrelevant is the fact that the nurses I know all got the shots…mandatory…no exceptions. If you want science with hard observable facts…take 100 new nurses from many backgrounds…give them all the same shots with no exceptions…watch class after class graduate with no ill effects…and watch them work with sick people day in and out and not catch the overwhelming number of communicable diseases they encounter. After watching all that…several hundred nurses at a time…for years…announce that their daily experiences…first hand…are somehow irrelevant…

        …then watch the rest of us laugh at you.

        • 5by5

          Yes, but it’s still not the same as someone who specializes in epidemiology, or toxicology, or virology.

  • Grek

    Your comment is entirely comprised of ‘personal opinion based’ facts and irrelevant personal anecdotes. Just because you are a nurse does not mean you are an authority on the subject. You obviously are not. Do you know for a fact that all vaccines are safe and could never in any way harm anyone?

  • Haystack

    Just about any form of medical intervention carries risks. The stuff that is risk free is usually risk free because it doesn’t do anything (e.g., homeopathy).

  • Anonymous

    (sorry, double post)

  • Anonymous

    Vaccines, generally speaking, are a very effective technology.
    Flu vaccines, unfortunately, don’t work so well.

    Manufacturing the vaccine for a large populace takes time, and during that time, the flu virus mutates considerably. This means that the manufacturers have to guess what the most widespread strains will look like several months down the line, and they can’t always guess correctly. If they do guess right, it can be helpful and protect some people who might suffer badly from flu symptoms. If they guess wrong, it was all for nothing. No herd immunity, none of the usual helpful effects of widespread immunization. Just a lot of people feeling crappy from the effects of the shot. And the following year, everyone has to go through the same process again, with the same guesswork.

    Fears about mercury and so on are silly, it’s true. But until manufacturing techniques get a lot faster, the flu vaccine will not be ready for prime time, and I will not be receiving it.

  • razzlebathbone

    (sorry, double post)

  • razzlebathbone

    Vaccines, generally speaking, are a very effective technology.
    Flu vaccines, unfortunately, don’t work so well.

    Manufacturing the vaccine for a large populace takes time, and during that time, the flu virus mutates considerably. This means that the manufacturers have to guess what the most widespread strains will look like several months down the line, and they can’t always guess correctly. If they do guess right, it can be helpful and protect some people who might suffer badly from flu symptoms. If they guess wrong, it was all for nothing. No herd immunity, none of the usual helpful effects of widespread immunization. Just a lot of people feeling crappy from the effects of the shot. And the following year, everyone has to go through the same process again, with the same guesswork.

    Fears about mercury and so on are silly, it’s true. But until manufacturing techniques get a lot faster, the flu vaccine will not be ready for prime time, and I will not be receiving it.

  • http://twitter.com/Marklar_Prime Marklar Kronkite

    Perhaps you’d care to inject a can of tuna directly into your bloodstream and tell us how you feel afterward, just to test your theory, for science, y’know.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Well said…I’ve got too many relatives in the medical biz…nurses, PTs, a cpl doctors…they all get shots regularly…because they all deal with so many people that even though they are healthy…they have an increased risk of contraction.

    So they get shots like clockwork…not one case of autism…no sudden deaths or weird diseases…all healthy as can be…including three marathon enthusiasts. (I consider them mentally unbalanced…but physically healthy).

    Robustly healthy people don’t need flu vaccinations unless their career exposes them to lots of sick people. You perfectly spelled out the differences in need and priorities…good on ya!

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Actually…earning a degree as an RN does make the opinion more than just opinion. I just lived through a spouse getting that RN…believe me…they know more than you do…more than I do…more than most of them ever wanted to know.

    Irrelevant personal anecdotes and personal conjecture are what the critics of vaccinations rely on…while the authority on the subject rests with the person who spent a cpl years or more in college…studying that specific subject as well as dozens of others.

    Not so irrelevant is the fact that the nurses I know all got the shots…mandatory…no exceptions. If you want science with hard observable facts…take 100 new nurses from many backgrounds…give them all the same shots with no exceptions…watch class after class graduate with no ill effects…and watch them work with sick people day in and out and not catch the overwhelming number of communicable diseases they encounter. After watching all that…several hundred nurses at a time…for years…announce that their daily experiences…first hand…are somehow irrelevant…

    …then watch the rest of us laugh at you.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    You have a very optimistic view of people’s intelligence. Near 50% of Americans fall into the category of “Jesus walked with dinosaurs” believers. The number of people who believe that the Earth is larger than the sun is much larger than you want to know. The volume of people who are absolutely certain that there is no such thing as species adaption or evolution is past a third of the US and rising.

    I think we’d be very lucky if one person in ten could tell the difference between a cold and a serious case of the flu.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    there’s a graveyard on my family’s property up north. some of the graves date back through the 1900s into the 1800’s. the family records include the names of every death from smallpox and Spanish flu. These people farmed their own food, organic as hell, before modern chemistry screwed everything up. Their diet was mostly vegetables and fruits when the season was right…with meat when there was enough to spare and kill an animal for supper. Their diet was better than yours or mine…their lifestyle was one of hard work outdoors…they were tougher than most of us could hope to be…they still died.

    people died by the hundreds of thousands from diseases prior to inoculation via vaccine…sometimes whole households in just a few weeks…but guess what….after the arrival of vaccination as a preventative treatment…not one death in the entire family from disease in the last 70 years.

    coincidence? I don’t think so.

  • Logic

    I don’t think most people get the main point open the insert given in the shot.. would you rather get the flu or one of the possible side effects.. ill stick with the flu. i wont play Russian roulette with a GUN why would i play with a needle?

  • Logic

    I don’t think most people get the main point open the insert given in the shot.. would you rather get the flu or one of the possible side effects.. ill stick with the flu. i wont play Russian roulette with a GUN why would i play with a needle?

  • Anonymous

    What’s true is that at my company, everyone is healthy as a horse until AFTER the yearly flu shot. Then after it, all the people that got the flu shot are sick as a dog, and those that didn’t are fine. I know that’s anecdotal, but I also know I see it year, after year, after year.

    I also know I wouldn’t trust a drug company or the FDA as far as I could throw either of them, mainly because they’re sleeping together in the same bed — making throwing them all the more difficult.

  • 5by5

    What’s true is that at my company, everyone is healthy as a horse until AFTER the yearly flu shot. Then after it, all the people that got the flu shot are sick as a dog, and those that didn’t are fine. I know that’s anecdotal, but I also know I see it year, after year, after year.

    I also know I wouldn’t trust a drug company or the FDA as far as I could throw either of them, mainly because they’re sleeping together in the same bed — making throwing them all the more difficult.

  • Anonymous

    Or, as in the case of soldiers being deployed, get not just one shot of that directly into your bloodstream, but like 7 or 8 of those shots, all within a short time-period, with exactly zero research done about the impact on the human body of close vaccination protocols like that having been done to verify whether it’s safe before proceeding. Just line ‘em up, and stick ‘em like a porcupine.It’s called aggregate toxicity, folks, and it’s hardly ever researched. Single drugs may be tested (and if Vioxx is any example, even that’s sketchy) but not the kind of broad spectrum, drug interaction, long-term effects research that should be done prior to injection on the masses. Otherwise thimerisol would never have been in a vaccine to begin with, not to mention posilac in milk, or post-processed chemical fertilizer in our water supply (which is of course, stealing our vital fluids.)

  • Anonymous

    And their patients still have a better chance of getting sick IN a hospital that outside of one, because doctors do stupid crap like wear bacteria-infected neckties dragging them from hospital room to hospital room. All so they can “look authoritative”.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, but it’s still not the same as someone who specializes in epidemiology, or toxicology, or virology.

  • Anonymous

    VoxMagi: “Near 50% of Americans fall into the category of “Jesus walked with dinosaurs” believers. The number of people who believe that the Earth is larger than the sun is much larger than you want to know. The volume of people who are absolutely certain that there is no such thing as species adaption or evolution is past a third of the US and rising.”

    Ok, now there you have me. That part is true. :-)

  • Anonymous

    How exactly is it voluntary if you are required to have shots before your children can attend school? Or if you’re ordered to get a vaccine before you’re deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan?

    Even if you were to make the case about the latter of those two examples that it’s an “all-volunteer Army”, many people “volunteer” because there are no other jobs in their communities, or because its the only way they can afford an education in this batcrap crazy country where our priorities are out of whack.

    And even those who knew full-well that they would be giving up a certain portion of their rights and could risk being shot AT, may not have fully understood that the shots they were getting on the way to the Gulf War or these latest debacles would mean they’d be “volunteering” to get a cocktail of shit that would give them neurological problems for decades to come.

  • Tuna Ghost

    …except that doesn’t follow at all from the history of polio and smallpox, now does it. In fact, quite the opposite has been true.

  • Tuna Ghost

    I don’t use condoms. I’ve never acquired HIV or any other fluid-spread STD.

    …you see how my comment doesn’t mean jack shit to anyone, and it is completely useless in a logical discussion? Does it…look familiar?

  • Anonymous

    Don’t worry. You’ll find a use for condoms one day. I’m sure there’s a woman out there who is ugly enough, desperate enough and completely lacking in good judgement who will show you what to do

    …you see how my comment is not constructive at all, and is just a childish attack meant to make me look better than you?….Does it ….look familiar?

  • Ironaddict06

    When watching those 1950’s films of people getting shots, what I find funny is that the syrinage was rarely replaced with a new one.

  • Ironaddict06

    When watching those 1950’s films of people getting shots, what I find funny is that the syrinage was rarely replaced with a new one.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Way to dodge the issue, buddy. Fact is, unsupported personal anecdotes that refer to a supposed correlation are of no use whatsoever in this discussion. But personal insults are a great way to go too, I bet it’s impossible for anyone to think you don’t know what you’re doing now. Impossible.

  • Anonymous

    Wow One whole week to cobble together another little caustic reply which is “of no use whatsoever in this discussion”
    Fact is unsupported personal anecdotes are of huge importance to the ‘unsupported person’ That means the fact that I don’t need vaccines however offensive to you, is of greater significance to me than any skewed data you could produce. Hence my comment
    Now swim away little fishy apparition

  • Tuna Ghost

    Wow you really just admitted that unsupported bullshit is more important to you than facts? I’ll keep that in mind for the future.

    Meanwhile, your unsupported personal anecdote about a correlation you’ve allegedly noticed in your personal life may be more valuable to you, but that does not explain how it would be of any use to anyone else or to the discussion in general. We dont’ know who you are. For all I know you could be (oh god I hope not) a teenager, or a Browns fan, or someone equally dismissed by anyone with an education.

    But I’m gathering that helpfully adding to the discussion really isn’t your concern, but rather telling us about your life. There are blogs for that, buddy.

  • gemmarama

    i’ve never had a flu shot, and i’ve never had the flu.

    that’s all i got.

  • Anonymous

    Look, I think you have read more into my initial comment than I intended to convey so I’d like to clear this up.
    Firstly, let me just say that I agree with you about anecdotal evidence. It has no place in scientific deduction or conclusion as it can’t be relied on to be either true or accurate Therefore it can not be used to support any data based scientific conclusion. That is the point you are making, yes?

    My comment was brief because to add more would have been to do what you have accused me of doing.Of using my personal annecdote to prove other commentors right or wrong which was never my intention I did not go on to state that “therefore vaccines are unnecessary” or “so everybody should be like me” etc

    So why leave leave such a comment? Well I believe that this site is an open public forum where anyone can post any kind of comment they like. I wasn’t aware of any guidelines or parameters for leaving comments. In fact I have read many comments from people who have told annecdotes and given personal insights into their lives and I find it enjoyable.My comment is of value to the forum (if not the scientific discussion) because I believe there are other people out there who are like me and may gain something from reading it.If you consider a comment to be of no use to the discussion you should just discard it rather than leaving a sarcastic reply. Or perhaps make your point more civilly

    May I also address the point I tried to make (rather badly) in my second reply. I know you don’t agree with this and I’m not trying to convince you of anything rather I am just explaining how I perceive this. Annecdotal evidence is still ‘evidence’ to the person concerned. If a person experiences something and then reliable scientific evidence says that it can’t be true or the opposite is true then the person is much more likely to discard the scientific evidence than the personal experience. Annecdotal evidence exists out there because it is human experience and if it is not used to prove anything the it should be welcome.

    I’m sorry I left sarcastic responses but I was just reacting (mirroring?) to yours

  • justagirl

    uuuuuh. so… it’s an illogical comment (THAT YOU POSTED HERE)? now, I’M confused.

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