Meet the Tea Party’s Corporate Puppet Masters

Profiled by Jane Mayer in the August 30 New Yorker, brothers Charles and David Koch are two libertarian billionaires who have been quietly funding the Tea Party and other anti-Obama campaigns:

“The Kochs operate oil refineries in Alaska, Texas, and Minnesota, and control some four thousand miles of pipeline. Koch Industries owns Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia-Pacific lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra, among other products. Forbes ranks it as the second-largest private company in the country, after Cargill, and its consistent profitability has made David and Charles Koch—who, years ago, bought out two other brothers—among the richest men in America. Their combined fortune of thirty-five billion dollars is exceeded only by those of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.
koch
“The Kochs are longtime libertarians who believe in drastically lower personal and corporate taxes, minimal social services for the needy, and much less oversight of industry—especially environmental regulation. These views dovetail with the brothers’ corporate interests. In a study released this spring, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst’s Political Economy Research Institute named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States. And Greenpeace issued a report identifying the company as a ‘kingpin of climate science denial.’ The report showed that, from 2005 to 2008, the Kochs vastly outdid ExxonMobil in giving money to organizations fighting legislation related to climate change, underwriting a huge network of foundations, think tanks, and political front groups. Indeed, the brothers have funded opposition campaigns against so many Obama Administration policies—from health-care reform to the economic-stimulus program—that, in political circles, their ideological network is known as the Kochtopus.”

Mayer has also written critically of leftist financier George Soros and is generally troubled with the implications of large personal fortunes being injected into the political process. She draws a contrast, however, between Soros’s high public profile and relative transparency, and the characteristic secrecy in which the Kochs have funded political movements that directly support their own business interests. “They’re smart,” she quotes a former Koch advisor, “This right-wing, redneck stuff works for them. They see this as a way to get things done without getting dirty themselves.”

[More at The New Yorker]

[disinfo ed.'s note: the Brothers Koch have posted a response to the New Yorker article at their corporate website.]

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  • 5by5

    Yeah, here’s the irony. Billionaires getting semi-educated, middle class, and downright poor people to vote against their own best interests by ramping up hate, division, and misinformation — all of which is intentionally designed to advance these douchebag’s craven business interests.And you can say a lot about Soros, who yes, like a nasty Leftist, supported Democracy movements all over Eastern Europe, but at a minimum, at least his actions are public. The Koch brothers clearly understand that they’re putting one over on the rednecks, which is why they engage in this Machiavellian crap from the shadows. (Sort of like Actor/Congressman Fred Thompson who used to switch from his bespoke suits and limo just outside of town from a rally and get into his “redneck costume” of jeans, boots, and a workshirt and hop into a beat-up red pickup truck — which even had carefully stage-managed chewing tobacco on the dashboard just for good measure — before “driving” into town during his presidential campaign.) They know their arguments would hold less weight if people fully understood that they were pulling this crap and advancing this patently false information in order to pad their already ridiculously thick wallets.It’s like what Bill Maher said back during the Clinton era about the difference between what Republicans and Democrats are trying to sell the American people. He said:”Republicans are trying to sell you on the notion that there are pissers, and the pissed upon. I mean what do you think ‘trickle-down economics’ is??? They’re TELLING YOU! ‘We’re going to piss on you!’ So they sell people the notion that somehow if Republicans are in power, you too can become one of the pissers, even though that’s next to impossible, since that kind of ‘fuck everybody’ money is only held by only like 1% of the people in this country. But that’s what the Republicans are trying to convince every redneck out there of, that someday, you too will be one of those rich fuckers who get to piss on everyone.So what are the Democrats selling you?An umbrella.”What I’d add is that Democratic Socialists are selling the notion that they’ll happily chop the dick off of any guy who tries to piss on you. Which is why I like them better than Democrats.

    • FergalR

      You have no idea what a socialised healthcare system is like.

      I hope you’re in good health or have plenty of spare cash for insurance.

      • Andrew

        And if you have neither?

        • Chatelaine19

          then you die leaving your family in debt

          • FergalR

            How does it work in the States, I honestly don’t know.If a child contracts meningitis and goes to the hospital they don’t leave them to die but the family is given a $1,000,000 bill if that’s how much it costs to keep them alive?That doesn’t sound right to me. Doesn’t sound enforceable for a start. The only other option is that they leave sick children to die in the car park.

          • Liam_McGonagle

            Maybe that’s the key: If you don’t know ask, don’t tell.

          • FergalR

            Or maybe:

            “Minimum healthcare for everyone” means

            minimum healthcare for everyone“.

      • 5by5

        FergalR: “You have no idea what a socialised healthcare system is like.”

        Actually I do. My family worked with the military overseas for 27 years, so I had socialized medicine for most of my life — ie. the military health care system. Indeed, it saved my mother’s life twice. I also lived in Germany at that time, so any services which we couldn’t get through the military, we got through the German system of socialized medicine, or when traveling, I’ve also experienced the English, French, and Canadian systems, and all of them work better than ours.Spin again, moron.

        • FergalR

          “My family worked with the military overseas for 27 years”

          And private health insurance wasn’t part of the deal?

          Pull the other one.

          Nice to see you’re following in the family footsteps of working “with the military” here on Disinfo. Nice work if you can get it.

          • 5by5

            Why would I need private health insurance, when I’ve got government health care that comes with service to the country? Similarly, why would you need private health insurance corporate middlemen telling you what care THEY think you should have in contravention of your doctor’s advice, when you could have universal public health care paid for by your regular taxes?

            And I have no idea what your last sentence was supposed to mean. Some paranoid fantasy in your head? Dunno.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

            well you know whats awesome. i lost my job in december last year a week after my daughter was born. I lost my health insurance for myself but got medicaid for my daughter. Well my doctor i had when I had insurance is also a pediatrician so he sees my daughter right. Well he actually knew my health insurance was up and out and told me to come see him for anything I need and I don’t have to pay for the visit. If he writes me a prescription I obviously have to pay for the medicine. But I have been very lucky. My doctor is a younger guy and I consider him a friend more than a doctor. I trust him with anything I tell him. He’s very honest and if he thinks something won’t work he wont do it or at least give me the option of doing it like an xray or mri or what ever the case. It’s too bad more doctors aren’t like him. If I have to I will do home surgery before heading to the ER. Nothing a little alchohol, bandages and hot sewing needles cant fix.

      • Tuna Ghost

        Actually anyone who has spent time living abroad has had at least a taste of socialised healthcare, genius. That’s why its difficult to use your scare tactics on anyone who has been around, as I’m sure you’ve noticed.

        • FergalR

          No. Sorry. I had a medical emergency. My doctor (€40) told me I’d be dead in 6 hours without treatment. He asked me if I wanted him to call an ambulance. I insisted on getting a taxi. It made no difference. In the 12 hours I was in the waiting room the occupants of the ambulances came and their passengers were wheeled out to sit beside me.

          Then (the next morning) my parents came to see how I was. They told me they’d been paying medical insurance for me since I was born. I told the nurse the insurance number and was operated on within the hour. I’m sure you’re glad that my parent’s foresight allows me to write this to you.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Wow, an unsupported personal anecdote posted online about your own experience that has no relevance to what I said? I can’t believe no one takes you seriously!

    • BadCitizen

      Really bro? Republican Vs. Democrat? If you vote for either you’re backing a corporation. You say: “Democratic Socialists are selling the notion that they’ll happily chop the dick off of any guy who tries to piss on you. Which is why I like them better than Democrats.” any government pisses on you and they own your dick so you can’t piss back. Coke or Pepsi Bro, they both rot your teeth, make you fat, and get you addicted.
      Why do we we rally behind any of these parties to the point where we argue and fight with each other , when in all honesty politicians=government=power> You & Me=We=outsourcing our power to rich elitist http://imperfect-citizen.blogspot.com/

      • HijackTheTeaParty

        Damn right. BOTH sides are funded by corporations/lobbyists/NGO’s… There is no escape, no single party or person can fax 70 plus years of horrible policy. And whether we have socialized healthcare or not, it’s going to be horrible… Sorry! Unless everyone that holds an elected/appointed position of power is hung (Well, most of them anyways) were fuuuucked.

        • BadCitizen

          Hard to face but too true, Hijack. These men and women we put in office are just CEOs of the corporation called U.S.A. they are going to run this company dry and then jump ship before the big collapse. What we all witnessed before the bailouts, when CEOs were sucking it dry then dumping stock is a fore shadow of our governments plan for this company. Governing countries is the new strip mining. We need to quit fighting each other and get on the same page, there is no “us” and “them”, “they” are “us”. We need to start taking care of each other so the govt. won’t have the poor and hungry of our population to pander to anymore.

          • HijackTheTeaParty

            Exactly, I’m far from rich, but I’d much rather help someone out who will help me out than fucking sit and take other peoples hard earned money. Fuck man, I mean haven’t we realized that there is no perfect government? None. Nope. Besides, when people try to make it as perfect as possible (our founding fathers and everyone that fought in the revolutionary war) there will ALWAYS be someone trying to ruin it and or take advantage… Too bad there’s no way to weed out all the fucking liar/thief/murderer/criminal/con artist bastards in the world at once.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

            Yeah I don’t agree with the lesser of two evils. They’re all equal in my eyes. We need a “peoples” party. Politics is turning into religion as in Denominations. One group says they like this, dont like that etc etc. The other group says ya well we like that but lets add this to it to make it what we want. Then you have one side that says to hell with all that sh*t! We want everything for free and don’t want to work. Then I’m sitting here like wtf! Why the hell can’t anyone agree on the issues. No one is looking for a solution but just to piss the other party off. I am considering joining the missouri militia for some survial skills, more weapons training and some like minded people. I personally don’t think republican or democrat can fix the country but liberals pushing socialism will be the end of the country and thats when I’ll start opening fire on all of those bastards!

          • HijackTheTeaParty

            Hell yeah dead on man.

      • 5by5

        Because for the time being, we don’t have run-off voting. Until we get that at the national level, nothing will change. This is because you can’t simply vote for a third party candidate, and have your vote actually count right now. If you vote for a third party candidate, in essence, you’re just throwing your vote away.

        With run-off voting, you name your first choice, the Liberal, Socialist, Indie, or Green Party member you REALLY like, and if he or she doesn’t get a certain percentage of the vote, you vote then transfers to your second choice, presumably a Democrat. (Note, this also works on the Conservative side, of course.)

        Because we don’t have a Parliamentary system where coalition governments can be formed as they are in Europe, this is the only answer to the two-party dilemma.

        • BadCitizen

          The “only” answer means we don’t have a choice. So if we have no choice, then what’s the point in voting? In actuality, when we vote, we are begging for our freedoms. Both parties deny us certain freedoms in exchange for others. It’s a big game, and it’s an illusion of choice. As long as we continue to buy the idea, that our vote/candidate is going to make a difference, then we feel like we still have power. It does not matter who gets elected, we need to face the truth, we don’t matter in any political system. The agenda will be carried out no matter who we vote for. When we vote, we are saying “here mr. politician, please take care of all our problems, while we sit on our ass and watch TV.” Don’t buy the BS ,one by one we are dropping out of the system and starting changing things on our own. We are volunteering and making “change” on our own. Voting in the system = outsourcing our power. http://imperfect-citizen.blogspot.com/

          • Liam_McGonagle

            I’m glad you’re not voting. ‘Cause your reasoning here is a pretty bad shambles.

            So Jesus ain’t on the ballot, the whole enterprise is worthless? Don’t believe in gradual progress through comprimise? Sounds like the deluded ramblings of a Somali warlord.

            Let’s face facts: It takes freakin’ GENERATIONS to get meaningful change, and it takes votes to make it last. Society is an irreducably cooperative venture. There is no ‘going it alone’. You either debate and vote like a grown, civilized human being or rise in a violent coup against your fellows. Or sulk alone at home in a fetal position waiting for the Messiah.

            It took us over 80 years from the Treaty of Paris to the abolition of slavery. Ten years from that point to get the vote for African Americans. Fifty years from that point until women could vote. And it took almost another 20 years after that to enact the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act to eliminate on a nation-wide scale the most abusive manipulation of child labor by the industrialists.

            None of that would have been possible if the American people back then had been the type of worthless whimps we see around us today, wringing their hands in helpless terror waiting for Santy Claus to come and make it all better.

            Voting ain’t for whimps, so if you feel you’re not up for it, please stay home.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

          wow i had no idea that is how it is! but if i vote for the 3rd party that is one less vote for the other 2 bs parties.

      • Theanarkest

        They are all the same evil.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, here’s the irony. Billionaires getting semi-educated, middle class, and downright poor people to vote against their own best interests by ramping up hate, division, and misinformation — all of which is intentionally designed to advance these douchebag’s craven business interests.And you can say a lot about Soros, who yes, like a nasty Leftist, supported Democracy movements all over Eastern Europe, but at a minimum, at least his actions are public. The Koch brothers clearly understand that they’re putting one over on the rednecks, which is why they engage in this Machiavellian crap from the shadows. (Sort of like Actor/Congressman Fred Thompson who used to switch from his bespoke suits and limo just outside of town from a rally and get into his “redneck costume” of jeans, boots, and a workshirt and hop into a beat-up red pickup truck — which even had carefully stage-managed chewing tobacco on the dashboard just for good measure — before “driving” into town during his presidential campaign.) They know their arguments would hold less weight if people fully understood that they were pulling this crap and advancing this patently false information in order to pad their already ridiculously thick wallets.It’s like what Bill Maher said back during the Clinton era about the difference between what Republicans and Democrats are trying to sell the American people. He said:”Republicans are trying to sell you on the notion that there are pissers, and the pissed upon. I mean what do you think ‘trickle-down economics’ is??? They’re TELLING YOU! ‘We’re going to piss on you!’ So they sell people the notion that somehow if Republicans are in power, you too can become one of the pissers, even though that’s next to impossible, since that kind of ‘fuck everybody’ money is only held by only like 1% of the people in this country. But that’s what the Republicans are trying to convince every redneck out there of, that someday, you too will be one of those rich fuckers who get to piss on everyone.So what are the Democrats selling you?An umbrella.”What I’d add is that Democratic Socialists are selling the notion that they’ll happily chop the dick off of any guy who tries to piss on you. Which is why I like them better than Democrats.

  • E.B. Wolf

    The Exiled broke this story weeks before anyone else.

    • gadsdengurl

      But since it is ‘disinfo’ it’s of no consequence. There is no money funding the tea party… sure there is money funding groups like FreedomWorks, but they are NOT the teaparty.

      http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JVWYBEYRMYD4VSMZ4H6VZYZ2GY Don

        And when the Tea Party doesn’t give the Koch Bros. what they want? All that funding gets cut off. Not happening. The Tea Party is bought and paid for by the Koch Bros. I, for one, refuse to sit by and let corporations run my country, therefore, I have a duty to oppose the tea party, as well as any corporate and foreign attempt to buy our nation.

        • KIM TRUHLAR

          being part of the Tea Party, I have never heard of any money coming from any corporations. It is coming from the people. So I say to you is prove it with facts, if you can. And if you can not see what the progressives are trying to do to this country, than I really feel sorry for you.

          • Andrew

            What if we fully support what the progressives are trying to do to this country?

          • Hadrian999

            so people have to counter your unsubstantiated anecdotal claims with hard facts,
            hardly seems fair. if you are on the bottom rung of the organization you wouldn’t know about any money
            anymore than someone putting up posters for a in an election know about the candidate’s funding.

      • E.B. Wolf

        No money huh. Sounds like Socialism to me.

  • E.B. Wolf

    The Exiled broke this story weeks before anyone else.

  • Anonymous

    You have no idea what a socialised healthcare system is like.

    I hope you’re in good health or have plenty of spare cash for insurance.

  • lighthouse

    That’s ok 5by5.
    Koch industries may hire you one day to produce something but Soros and Goldman will just suck your blood.

    • Hadrian999

      say the koch brothers get their way and there are no services for the poor or unemployed, no public health care and no regulation of business, what do you think they are going to do.

      • NoAnswer

        True, I’m not wealthy by any means, and it goes against my human survival instincts to feel this way, but I don’t want other peoples hard earned money. Trust me, I have a deep hatred for ANYONE in the world fortune 500, and their agenda is garbage, but on the other side… I dont think its right for people to freeload. Yes, there are circumstances that people NEED and deserve help from fellow citizens but… I dont know… Both sides are presenting a false answer to our problems… Maybe, hopefully, there will be a real presidential candidate in two years that will cut the fuck out of all this citizen surveillance/war on (fake) terror/war on drugs and so on and so forth and our taxes can go to help the truthfully needy. Other than that… Lol I dont know… what do you think Hadrian?

        • Hadrian999

          i think we’ll never see a candidate with a real answer to anything,
          with the way elections and media work you have to be in someones pocket to be able to play the game and the people with power aren’t going to let anyone in that isn’t under control.
          I don’t like freeloaders either but without some form of social assistance when people really need it the working class will be no better than serfs at the mercy of corporate lords

          • Liam_McGonagle

            So it’s really kind of a false choice then, this idea of “Social welfare AND frauds OR No Social stability AND lack of frauds”? Either the frauds will be low-level, poorly educated underclass or on a massive scale by plutocratic bankers and industrialists?

            Both for reasons of not denying assistance to innocent victims and the reducing the overall level of unavoidable fraud, I’m inclined to support social assistance.

    • Liam_McGonagle

      Interesting point. Let’s explore that a bit, shall we?

      First of all, let’s be clear: The Koch brothers “produce” nothing.

      Charles Koch inherited control over his daddy’s oil firm in 1967, when it was valued at $177 Million (over $1.1 TRILLION in 2009 terms).

      So neither he nor his brother David “produce” a G_d damned thing. What they do is manipulate their inherited financial capital to smother the competition and destroy true entrepreneurs. They and Goldman Sachs are part and parcel of the same sick dynamic, forcing a scelrotic concentration of wealth in the hands of a very few idlers and political dilettantes while choking out the life force of innovation and creativity from the other 98% of society.

      2/3 of net new job creation is done by small entrepreneurs whose access to capital and markets is being destroyed by the Kochs and the policies they endorse.

      The fact that the douche-y Supreme Court gave the goahead for big capital to contribute, in secret, unlimited amounts of $ to right wing political campaigns decisively undermines the sacred principle of “one man, one vote”.

      So again, the Koch brothers “produce” nothing. What they do is destroy jobs, the entrepreneurial economy and democracy itself.

      • gadsdengurl

        Once again, you can rail against Koch, but they have not one thing to do with the teaparty.

        http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

        • Liam_McGonagle

          Your failure to recognize how badly you’re being played is yet another instance of Tea Party ineptitude. Read my response to your other message, totally ripping apart your illogic and hypocrisy.

          Or have it read to you. I realize that some ‘o them wurdz might be a spell diffikult fur yoo.

    • 5by5

      Being an entrepreneur myself, I frankly don’t need them to hire me for squat.

  • lighthouse

    That’s ok 5by5.
    Koch industries may hire you one day to produce something but Soros and Goldman will just suck your blood.

  • Hadrian999

    say the koch brothers get their way and there are no services for the poor or unemployed, no public health care and no regulation of business, what do you think they are going to do.

  • myth_slayer

    Jane Mayer’s article is factually corrrect, although there was much more she could have added, but somewhat obscures or misleads on this subject.

    Attributing everything to the Koch bros. ignores the fact that over eighty percent of what passes for “news” in Amerika is churned out daily by either Koch, or Peter G. Peterson, through all their foundations, trusts, wire services, think tanks, etc., etc., etc.

    Then the 5 newsy-owning corporations have their trained monkeys churn over these so-called “news items” again and again, ad nauseum. Of course, most Ameritards believe it ends there and have no real knowledge of the ownership behind these 5 newsy-owning corporations!

    Interesting to know that Dick Cheney’s godson, D J Gribbin IV, has worked in the past for Koch Industries or Koch Energy, and was the national field director for the Christian Coalition back in the ’90s, paving the way for the Bush presidency.

    DJ (as he prefers to be known) is back with the Macquarie Group, the Australian-based multinational, doing “God’s work” — trying to turn every road in America into a toll road, and financed through public-private partnerships, based upon securitized debt scams by way of Goldman Sachs and friends.

    • gadsdengurl

      Mayer’s article is not correct in any way shape or form.

      http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

      • HijackTheTeaParty

        Why don’t you ever state your own opinion? I mean, like cite a source or something at least. Describe WHY you feel the way you do, rather than just sounding uninformed. No offense, but someone with a “Dont Tread On Me” logo should know a bit more than “thats wrong”. Sorry if I come off as a dick. It happens. Dont make us look like idiots.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

        well i hate to burst tha bubble but our politicians think we are all sheep driven idiots to begin with. The people just need to rise up against this corrupt bullshit and hang every single one of these politicians. I’m sure a revolution is coming at some point in the future maybe our lifetime. All I tell people is make friends with people who know how to survive just incase shit hits the fan.

  • Anonymous

    Jane Mayer’s article is factually corrrect, although there was much more she could have added, but somewhat obscures or misleads on this subject.

    Attributing everything to the Koch bros. ignores the fact that over eighty percent of what passes for “news” in Amerika is churned out daily by either Koch, or Peter G. Peterson, through all their foundations, trusts, wire services, think tanks, etc., etc., etc.

    Then the 5 newsy-owning corporations have their trained monkeys churn over these so-called “news items” again and again, ad nauseum. Of course, most Ameritards believe it ends there and have no real knowledge of the ownership behind these 5 newsy-owning corporations!

    Interesting to know that Dick Cheney’s godson, D J Gribbin IV, has worked in the past for Koch Industries or Koch Energy, and was the national field director for the Christian Coalition back in the ’90s, paving the way for the Bush presidency.

    DJ (as he prefers to be known) is back with the Macquarie Group, the Australian-based multinational, doing “God’s work” — trying to turn every road in America into a toll road, and financed through public-private partnerships, based upon securitized debt scams by way of Goldman Sachs and friends.

  • Andrew

    And if you have neither?

  • Chatelaine19

    then you die leaving your family in debt

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Interesting point. Let’s explore that a bit, shall we?

    First of all, let’s be clear: The Koch brothers “produce” nothing.

    Charles Koch inherited control over his daddy’s oil firm in 1967, when it was valued at $177 Million (over $1.1 TRILLION in 2009 terms).

    So neither he nor his brother David “produce” a G_d damned thing. What they do is manipulate their inherited financial capital to smother the competition and destroy true entrepreneurs. They and Goldman Sachs are part and parcel of the same sick dynamic, forcing a scelrotic concentration of wealth in the hands of a very few idlers and political dilettantes while choking out the life force of innovation and creativity from the other 98% of society.

    2/3 of net new job creation is done by small entrepreneurs whose access to capital and markets is being destroyed by the Kochs and the policies they endorse.

    The fact that the douche-y Supreme Court gave the goahead for big capital to contribute, in secret, unlimited amounts of $ to right wing political campaigns decisively undermines the sacred principle of “one man, one vote”.

    So again, the Koch brothers “produce” nothing. What they do is destroy jobs, the entrepreneurial economy and democracy itself.

  • lighthouse

    Most of you are too young to remember Ross Perot. Many of you have never heard of Karl Denninger or Rick Santelli. They sparked this fire. The notion that ANYONE controls the tea party is laughable and clear propaganda. Ignore them at your own risk of looking like an arse. Everything is a conspiracy really? The Koch brothers cannot and did not create the tea party or keep it going. A bankrupt crooked congress did.

    • Liam_McGonagle

      Yeah. The Tea Party represent a populist movement who are activated by a well-informed sense of priorities. They clearly “get” it that it’s elected government and not unaccountable corporate tyrannies that hold all the power in this society.

      1. In 1965 corps paid 21.8% of federal revenues and individuals paid 41.8%; unemployment was only 4.5%. By 2009 corps had not only slashed their employees’ health care and retirement benefits, but weasled their way down to paying 6.6% of federal revenues and forced individuals to pay more–43.5%.

      2. The President’s salary is a lousy $400k per year–a fraction of the BASE salary (i.e., excluding stock comp, cash surrender life policies, etc.) for a single corporate CEO.

      3. It’s embarrassing to think that Tea Baggers need to be told this out loud, but: “The Constitution gives them the right to vote for federal office holders. They have no such right to vote for corporate officers.”

      4. Lest some dimwitted Tea Bagger claim that they have an effective “vote with their dollars”, let’s see just how evenly those dollars are spread out in this country, shall we?
      a. As of 2007, the wealthiest 20% of society owned 85% of its net worth
      http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
      [Table 1]
      b. As of 2007, the wealthiest 10% of society owned 82% of its corporate stocks. Of course, the
      actual situation is much worse, because the true voting power is concentrated in the hands of
      big bank proxies and special class shares held by the plutocrats’ family members.
      [Same link, Table 2]

      Yeah, them Tea Baggers are sharp ones, all right. It’s ‘da gubmit’ what’s the danger in this hear polit’cal situamation, headed by that rascally ‘ol sosheelist foreigner, wantin’ to set up rules for everything, and keep our natural masters, the plutocratic Koch brothers, from gettin’ their justly deserved tax refunds.

      Get a clue. That naive phoney populism is clearly just a diversion to keep us from focusing on the real enemy: Plutocrats like the Koch brothers.

      • gadsdengurl

        The plutocrats are the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Strongs, and Soros of the world government who are duping the poor masses like you with their phony crisis, and looting of your treasury to redistribute overseas.

        Talk about promoting the plutocracy! Less gov’t is not a plutocracy.

        • Liam_McGonagle

          LOL. Which is exactly why the Tea Baggers are all proposing to bring back the highest marginal rate for corps up to the 70% that was in effect in 1965, right?

          BTW, thanks for mentioning the Rothschilds. They’re a EUROPEAN family–not American. Totally irrelevant to the discussion of American politics. Which I guess is par for the course for the notoriously ill-informed Tea Baggers. Also adds a rather picquante sense of anti-Semitism to a discussion that had heretofore, been directed at the total ineptitude and waste of time represented by the Tea Party.

          You’ve given me quite a good laugh. Thanks!

        • E.B. Wolf

          The only areas of government that tea party candidates want less of is financial regulation and the tax rate on the wealthiest bracket. That’s it. In all other areas, tea partiers LOVE big government. They can’t get enough of it.
          -imperialist wars of occupation? Hell yeah!
          -warrantless surveillance? love it!
          -continued “free trade treaties to send jobs overseas? capitalism at it’s finest!
          -legislate morality from the beltway? sure thing!

          It’s funny how the party claiming to champion small government and despising Obama’s “socialist takeover” of the U.S. never utters a peep about his expansion of Bush’s surveillance policies to include the right of a sitting president to order the assassination of U’S’ citizens. Where are the calls for smaller government then?

          • Liam_McGonagle

            All great points, E.B.

            But the rank idiocy of “her” comments is such that I have to wonder if “she” really isn’t a plant of some type? After all, the “Gadsden” “she” celebrates in “her” name is a clear reference to the “Gadsden Purchase”–an act of the U.S. FEDERAL government.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_Purchase

          • E.B. Wolf

            Yea, I’ve wondered if certain posters are pros myself. But at the end of the day it’s almost impossible to identify those who are paid PR people from the suckers who have simply bought into the lie hook, line, and sinker and go on “missionary” expeditions in cyberspace.

          • HijackTheTeaParty

            No here. I don’t like her either.. But here read this. The history is not completely clear, but the rattlesnake has a long history, before we HAD a federal government. http://www.gadsden.info/history.html

          • HijackTheTeaParty

            Actually here. Good enuff Liam.

            Although Benjamin Franklin helped create the American rattlesnake symbol, his name isn’t generally attached to the rattlesnake flag. The yellow “don’t tread on me” standard is usually called a Gadsden flag, for Colonel Christopher Gadsden, or less commonly, a Hopkins flag, for Commodore Esek Hopkins.

            These two individuals were mulling about Philadelphia at the same time, making important contributions to American history and the history of the rattlesnake flag.

            Christopher Gadsden was an American patriot if ever there was one. He led Sons of Liberty in South Carolina starting in 1765, and was later made a colonel in the Continental Army. In 1775 he was in Philadelphia representing his home state in the Continental Congress. He was also one of three members of the Marine Committee who decided to outfit and man the Alfred and its sister ships.

            Esek Hopkins portrait with Dont Tread on Me flag in background
            Commodore Hopkins, portrait by C. Corbutt, 1776. Click here for a larger image. The Don’t Tread on Me flag in this image appears to be a First Navy Jack. Library of Congress, Prints and Photographs Division.

            Gadsden and Congress chose a Rhode Island man, Esek Hopkins, as the commander-in-chief of the Navy. The flag that Hopkins used as his personal standard on the Alfred is the one we would now recognize. It’s likely that John Paul Jones, as the first lieutenant on the Alfred, ran it up the gaff.

            It’s generally accepted that Hopkins’ flag was presented to him by Christopher Gadsden, who felt it was especially important for the commodore to have a distinctive personal standard. Gadsden also presented a copy of this flag to his state legislature in Charleston. This is recorded in the South Carolina congressional journals:

            “Col. Gadsden presented to the Congress an elegant standard, such as is to be used by the commander in chief of the American navy; being a yellow field, with a lively representation of a rattle-snake in the middle, in the attitude of going to strike, and these words underneath, “Don’t Tread on Me!”

          • Hmmmmm

            Well, yes the tea party and good intentions of the people were hijacked by their so called candidates…. All neocons besides Ron Paul.

        • Tuna Ghost

          I’m not sure you understand those words or the process of politics in general.

        • Hadrian999

          want to see what this “less government” the tea party controllers want just look at U.S. history back to the days when corporate interests paid workers in script forcing them into debt creating what amounted to slavery and hired pinkertons to murder anyone that said anything about it.

    • gadsdengurl

      NO they didn’t! Ron Paul did and in his circles are Schiff and Santilli. That is where Santilli got the idea.
      First tea party was in 2007 long before we’d ever heard of Obama.

      http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

      So much disinfo out there……

      • E.B. Wolf

        True, but it barely registered a blip on the national media radar until it was hijacked by organisations like FreedomWorks (funded by the Koch brothers), the Cato Institute (ditto), and Reason Magazine (yup, guess who).

      • Theyareallthesame

        I love Ron Paul, but he pisses me off about 9/11… I know it is political suicide for any politician to say “9/11 was an inside job, we need a new investigation”, but I couldn’t put my faith in someone who would let 3000 deaths just slide by like that. I mean the 3000 is NOTHING compared to all of the innocents/non combatants killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 15 years by U.S. troops and contractors, I think somebody needs to take accountability for it… Anyways…

  • lighthouse

    Most of you are too young to remember Ross Perot. Many of you have never heard of Karl Denninger or Rick Santelli. They sparked this fire. The notion that ANYONE controls the tea party is laughable and clear propaganda. Ignore them at your own risk of looking like an arse. Everything is a conspiracy really? The Koch brothers cannot and did not create the tea party or keep it going. A bankrupt crooked congress did.

  • Anonymous

    FergalR: “You have no idea what a socialised healthcare system is like.”

    Actually I do. My family worked with the military overseas for 27 years, so I had socialized medicine for most of my life — ie. the military health care system. Indeed, it saved my mother’s life twice. I also lived in Germany at that time, so any services which we couldn’t get through the military, we got through the German system of socialized medicine, or when traveling, I’ve also experienced the English, French, and Canadian systems, and all of them work better than ours.Spin again, moron.

  • Anonymous

    Being an entrepreneur myself, I frankly don’t need them to hire me for squat.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah. The Tea Party represent a populist movement who are activated by a well-informed sense of priorities. They clearly “get” it that it’s elected government and not unaccountable corporate tyrannies that hold all the power in this society.

    1. In 1965 corps paid 21.8% of federal revenues and individuals paid 41.8%; unemployment was only 4.5%. By 2009 corps had not only slashed their employees’ health care and retirement benefits, but weasled their way down to paying 6.6% of federal revenues and forced individuals to pay more–43.5%.

    2. The President’s salary is a lousy $400k per year–a fraction of the BASE salary (i.e., excluding stock comp, cash surrender life policies, etc.) for a single corporate CEO.

    3. It’s embarrassing to think that Tea Baggers need to be told this out loud, but: “The Constitution gives them the right to vote for federal office holders. They have no such right to vote for corporate officers.”

    4. Lest some dimwitted Tea Bagger claim that they have an effective “vote with their dollars”, let’s see just how evenly those dollars are spread out in this country, shall we?
    a. As of 2007, the wealthiest 20% of society owned 85% of its net worth
    http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
    [Table 1]
    b. As of 2007, the wealthiest 10% of society owned 82% of its corporate stocks. Of course, the
    actual situation is much worse, because the true voting power is concentrated in the hands of
    big bank proxies and special class shares held by the plutocrats’ family members.
    [Same link, Table 2]

    Yeah, them Tea Baggers are sharp ones, all right. It’s ‘da gubmit’ what’s the danger in this hear polit’cal situamation, headed by that rascally ‘ol sosheelist foreigner, wantin’ to set up rules for everything, and keep our natural masters, the plutocratic Koch brothers, from gettin’ their justly deserved tax refunds.

    Get a clue. That naive phoney populism is clearly just a diversion to keep us from focusing on the real enemy: Plutocrats like the Koch brothers.

  • gadsdengurl

    This is a completely false story. Where is all this money that supposedly was given to us? Remember the first tea party was on Dec 16, 2007. Where and who are the Kochs then?

    Ridiculous. The tea party is great in that we get what we want done with no money taken or given whatsoever.

    The progressives are so desperate… they are the party of big oil, big banks, Wall Street and Soros who puppet masters Obama into his world socialist agenda.

    The tea party is just a bunch of people and this is drummed up because the left is SCARED as they should be.

    Here is the true story.
    http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

    • E.B. Wolf

      So lets see if I have your assertions in order: major international corporations in oil, banking, and capitol investment which exist for one reason only, to make a profit, along with a multi-billionaire financier are the puppet masters pushing Obama to implement a “world socialist agenda” and redistribute the wealth?

      And, of course, the Tea Party just spontaneously popped up one day with no organizing or financing from any established political or business interests whatsoever.

      Damn, the headaches you must get from trying to absorb that bullshit must be doosies.

    • Haystack

      The article cites the Kochs paying for logistics, like the buses that transported protesters to Washington. Those weren’t free.

      The Kochs have been around–they were doing the same stuff under Clinton.

      Do you not see a contradiction in calling progressives the party of big oil and Wall Street in one breath, and socialists in the next?

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        And those buses don’t roll for purposes that are odds with the bosses…I’ve noticed that for quite awhile. Got healthcare reform to protest…vroom vroom…wanna rally to oppose corporate invasion of political funding…well…I guess its the carpool lane with a few buddies.

        • FergalR

          Ladies, please, the politically correct term for “buses” is “multi-person-carbon-death-mobiles”. Didn’t you get the email and flyer?

  • Anonymous

    This is a completely false story. Where is all this money that supposedly was given to us? Remember the first tea party was on Dec 16, 2007. Where and who are the Kochs then?

    Ridiculous. The tea party is great in that we get what we want done with no money taken or given whatsoever.

    The progressives are so desperate… they are the party of big oil, big banks, Wall Street and Soros who puppet masters Obama into his world socialist agenda.

    The tea party is just a bunch of people and this is drummed up because the left is SCARED as they should be.

    Here is the true story.
    http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

  • Anonymous

    NO they didn’t! Ron Paul did and in his circles are Schiff and Santilli. That is where Santilli got the idea.
    First tea party was in 2007 long before we’d ever heard of Obama.

    http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

    So much disinfo out there……

  • Anonymous

    The plutocrats are the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Strongs, and Soros of the world government who are duping the poor masses like you with their phony crisis, and looting of your treasury to redistribute overseas.

    Talk about promoting the plutocracy! Less gov’t is not a plutocracy.

  • Anonymous

    Mayer’s article is not correct in any way shape or form.

    http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

  • Anonymous

    Once again, you can rail against Koch, but they have not one thing to do with the teaparty.

    http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

  • Anonymous

    But since it is ‘disinfo’ it’s of no consequence. There is no money funding the tea party… sure there is money funding groups like FreedomWorks, but they are NOT the teaparty.

    http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/about-join/

  • squatchie

    Get real gadsdengurl – fact check you copy before slathering it all over a webpage – “your brain’s exposed and its starting to show” – you actually believe that drivel on the teapartycoalition site?

  • squatchie

    Get real gadsdengurl – fact check you copy before slathering it all over a webpage – “your brain’s exposed and its starting to show” – you actually believe that drivel on the teapartycoalition site?

  • squatchie

    Somebody please post some data that disproves the story. Otherwise stifle yerself.

    • FergalR

      ExxonMobil giving $100million dollars to climate scam research: http://gcep.stanford.edu/about/sponsors.html

      • Tuna Ghost

        That doesn’t disprove anything, genius. For fuck’s sake how hard is it to a.) post something that more than a tangetal relevance to the topic, or b.) discover what actually constitutes “proof”?

        You’re a teenager, and that’s okay. When you get to college, though, you’ll eventually take a class called “argumentative writing”. I hope you pay attention.

        • FergalR

          “Somebody please post some data that disproves the story. Otherwise stifle yerself. ”

          Was the post I replied to cocksucker. I’m 35.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Yeah, no shit. Any time you want to explain how that counts as “disproving” the story, we’re all ears. Unless of course you can’t because your posts have no substance to them, which would be a surprise to nobody.

          • Andrew

            It would also explain why he mostly relies on ad hominem.

    • HijackTheTeaParty

      Read the healthcare bill yourself then. And then think about how each and every regulation will be twisted into what our corporate government finds to be the most profitable. This bill was written by INSURANCE LAWYERS. Research it. They even put a gold transaction tax in the HEALTHCARE bill. Wonder what else? read it. There’s also something in there about electronic monitoring of class A and B electronic implants… Could be interpreted many ways… READ.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

        It’s funny you brought that up because they were trying to rush congress to sign that peice of shit into play before even reading through all of it! That right there should tell you something is up. I can’t believe america is sitting back letting these assholes control our fate. It’s just pure and utter bullshit! U know as well as I do that capitol hill is just laughing at the people of the united states.

        • HijackTheTeaParty

          Yeah they are, the ones that aren’t completely ignorant to real life anyways, I’m sure some of them have no idea, living in their filth mansions bought with OUR fuuuuuckiiiing money. But yeah the general capitol hill gang are having a good ol’ time right now, too bad they don’t understand that when revolution does come (IF the sheeple EVER wake up) they will be the first to hang… I can’t wait to hear them beg…. Ahh sweet justice ( I hope)… And yeah they dont read anything, there’s a few congressional polls you could look up on what percent says they they read bills before voting on them, I don;t remember the exact numbers… Bad though..

  • squatchie

    Somebody please post some data that disproves the story. Otherwise stifle yerself.

  • BadCitizen

    Really bro? Republican Vs. Democrat? If you vote for either you’re backing a corporation. You say: “Democratic Socialists are selling the notion that they’ll happily chop the dick off of any guy who tries to piss on you. Which is why I like them better than Democrats.” any government pisses on you and they own your dick so you can’t piss back. Coke or Pepsi Bro, they both rot your teeth, make you fat, and get you addicted.
    Why do we we rally behind any of these parties to the point where we argue and fight with each other , when in all honesty politicians=government=power> You & Me=We=outsourcing our power to rich elitist http://imperfect-citizen.blogspot.com/

  • Liam_McGonagle

    LOL. Which is exactly why the Tea Baggers are all proposing to bring back the highest marginal rate for corps up to the 70% that was in effect in 1965, right?

    BTW, thanks for mentioning the Rothschilds. They’re a EUROPEAN family–not American. Totally irrelevant to the discussion of American politics. Which I guess is par for the course for the notoriously ill-informed Tea Baggers. Also adds a rather picquante sense of anti-Semitism to a discussion that had heretofore, been directed at the total ineptitude and waste of time represented by the Tea Party.

    You’ve given me quite a good laugh. Thanks!

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Your failure to recognize how badly you’re being played is yet another instance of Tea Party ineptitude. Read my response to your other message, totally ripping apart your illogic and hypocrisy.

    Or have it read to you. I realize that some ‘o them wurdz might be a spell diffikult fur yoo.

  • E.B. Wolf

    True, but it barely registered a blip on the national media radar until it was hijacked by organisations like FreedomWorks (funded by the Koch brothers), the Cato Institute (ditto), and Reason Magazine (yup, guess who).

  • E.B. Wolf

    So lets see if I have your assertions in order: major international corporations in oil, banking, and capitol investment which exist for one reason only, to make a profit, along with a multi-billionaire financier are the puppet masters pushing Obama to implement a “world socialist agenda” and redistribute the wealth?

    And, of course, the Tea Party just spontaneously popped up one day with no organizing or financing from any established political or business interests whatsoever.

    Damn, the headaches you must get from trying to absorb that bullshit must be doosies.

  • E.B. Wolf

    The only areas of government that tea party candidates want less of is financial regulation and the tax rate on the wealthiest bracket. That’s it. In all other areas, tea partiers LOVE big government. They can’t get enough of it.
    -imperialist wars of occupation? Hell yeah!
    -warrantless surveillance? love it!
    -continued “free trade treaties to send jobs overseas? capitalism at it’s finest!
    -legislate morality from the beltway? sure thing!

    It’s funny how the party claiming to champion small government and despising Obama’s “socialist takeover” of the U.S. never utters a peep about his expansion of Bush’s surveillance policies to include the right of a sitting president to order the assassination of U’S’ citizens. Where are the calls for smaller government then?

  • rtb61

    Koch (head, pronounce it the right way) Industries, in the rebuttal of course point to their awards from http://ethisphere.com/ and, who are these organisation with the great PR speak title. Want to find out about Ethisphere.org you have to go to Ethisphere.com. want to know about Ethisphere.com of course you have to go to Ethisphere.org. Then of course there is the corpedia.com skulking in the background manned by corporate lawyers and corrupted US government department lawyers (the fat corporate sponsored retirement pension).
    So another PR hack exercise for the promotion of corporations and their utter lack of human morals and ethics as being the height of excellence in psychopathic corporate ethics (pay us enough and with a complete lack of ethics we will tell everyone what great ethics you have).

    The Koch (head) definition of economic freedom, those with money should have the freedom to deny those without money their freedom.

    Now if they do truly support market based policies than wont don’t those cowards publicly align themselves and their corporation with the policies they fund, why are they afraid, and why do they hide. Is their whole company based upon the lie of the psychopath, one truly ugly face hidden from view and another public face to beguile and mislead.

    • Liam_McGonagle

      Good catch! Slate also ran a piece on the fly-by-night “Ethisphere”.

      http://www.slate.com/id/2248033/

      Turns out that not only is the thing awarded based upon a SELF-reported questionnaire w/ zero follow up, but some of the folks Corpedia claimed were on the administrative board HAD NEVER HEARD OF ETHISPHERE.

      An “ouch!”-ly ironic touch for an ethics award, don’t you think?

      • FergalR

        If I click on the link will it be an advert for Thai copies of Dolce Gabbana handbags?

        • Liam_McGonagle

          Ha ha. Just because yer old man beat the shit out of you as a kid and made you wear your sisters’ dresses doesn’t mean you have to bend everyone else’s ear with yer old sob stories. Yeah, we get where you’re coming from . . . you NEVER respond with any relevant information or a cogent argument. . . only with hints of a self-loathing homophobia born out of your own fear that you’re queer.

          Newsflash: The rest of us don’t give a flying fuck about that crap. So as a parting gesture, ’cause I suspect that very few people will be inclined to waste their time on you henceforth: Get over yourself. You’re not that important.

  • Anonymous

    Koch (head, pronounce it the right way) Industries, in the rebuttal of course point to their awards from http://ethisphere.com/ and, who are these organisation with the great PR speak title. Want to find out about Ethisphere.org you have to go to Ethisphere.com. want to know about Ethisphere.com of course you have to go to Ethisphere.org. Then of course there is the corpedia.com skulking in the background manned by corporate lawyers and corrupted US government department lawyers (the fat corporate sponsored retirement pension).
    So another PR hack exercise for the promotion of corporations and their utter lack of human morals and ethics as being the height of excellence in psychopathic corporate ethics (pay us enough and with a complete lack of ethics we will tell everyone what great ethics you have).

    The Koch (head) definition of economic freedom, those with money should have the freedom to deny those without money their freedom.

    Now if they do truly support market based policies than wont don’t those cowards publicly align themselves and their corporation with the policies they fund, why are they afraid, and why do they hide. Is their whole company based upon the lie of the psychopath, one truly ugly face hidden from view and another public face to beguile and mislead.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Actually anyone who has spent time living abroad has had at least a taste of socialised healthcare, genius. That’s why its difficult to use your scare tactics on anyone who has been around, as I’m sure you’ve noticed.

  • Tuna Ghost

    I’m not sure you understand those words or the process of politics in general.

  • Haystack

    The article cites the Kochs paying for logistics, like the buses that transported protesters to Washington. Those weren’t free.

    The Kochs have been around–they were doing the same stuff under Clinton.

    Do you not see a contradiction in calling progressives the party of big oil and Wall Street in one breath, and socialists in the next?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JVWYBEYRMYD4VSMZ4H6VZYZ2GY Don

    And when the Tea Party doesn’t give the Koch Bros. what they want? All that funding gets cut off. Not happening. The Tea Party is bought and paid for by the Koch Bros. I, for one, refuse to sit by and let corporations run my country, therefore, I have a duty to oppose the tea party, as well as any corporate and foreign attempt to buy our nation.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    And those buses don’t roll for purposes that are odds with the bosses…I’ve noticed that for quite awhile. Got healthcare reform to protest…vroom vroom…wanna rally to oppose corporate invasion of political funding…well…I guess its the carpool lane with a few buddies.

  • Anonymous

    All great points, E.B.

    But the rank idiocy of “her” comments is such that I have to wonder if “she” really isn’t a plant of some type? After all, the “Gadsden” “she” celebrates in “her” name is a clear reference to the “Gadsden Purchase”–an act of the U.S. FEDERAL government.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_Purchase

  • Anonymous

    Good catch! Slate also ran a piece on the fly-by-night “Ethisphere”.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2248033/

    Turns out that not only is the thing awarded based upon a SELF-reported questionnaire w/ zero follow up, but some of the folks Corpedia claimed were on the administrative board HAD NEVER HEARD OF ETHISPHERE.

    An “ouch!”-ly ironic touch for an ethics award, don’t you think?

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Damn right. BOTH sides are funded by corporations/lobbyists/NGO’s… There is no escape, no single party or person can fax 70 plus years of horrible policy. And whether we have socialized healthcare or not, it’s going to be horrible… Sorry! Unless everyone that holds an elected/appointed position of power is hung (Well, most of them anyways) were fuuuucked.

  • Hadrian999

    want to see what this “less government” the tea party controllers want just look at U.S. history back to the days when corporate interests paid workers in script forcing them into debt creating what amounted to slavery and hired pinkertons to murder anyone that said anything about it.

  • NoAnswer

    True, I’m not wealthy by any means, and it goes against my human survival instincts to feel this way, but I don’t want other peoples hard earned money. Trust me, I have a deep hatred for ANYONE in the world fortune 500, and their agenda is garbage, but on the other side… I dont think its right for people to freeload. Yes, there are circumstances that people NEED and deserve help from fellow citizens but… I dont know… Both sides are presenting a false answer to our problems… Maybe, hopefully, there will be a real presidential candidate in two years that will cut the fuck out of all this citizen surveillance/war on (fake) terror/war on drugs and so on and so forth and our taxes can go to help the truthfully needy. Other than that… Lol I dont know… what do you think Hadrian?

  • Hadrian999

    i think we’ll never see a candidate with a real answer to anything,
    with the way elections and media work you have to be in someones pocket to be able to play the game and the people with power aren’t going to let anyone in that isn’t under control.
    I don’t like freeloaders either but without some form of social assistance when people really need it the working class will be no better than serfs at the mercy of corporate lords

  • BadCitizen

    Hard to face but too true, Hijack. These men and women we put in office are just CEOs of the corporation called U.S.A. they are going to run this company dry and then jump ship before the big collapse. What we all witnessed before the bailouts, when CEOs were sucking it dry then dumping stock is a fore shadow of our governments plan for this company. Governing countries is the new strip mining. We need to quit fighting each other and get on the same page, there is no “us” and “them”, “they” are “us”. We need to start taking care of each other so the govt. won’t have the poor and hungry of our population to pander to anymore.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    So it’s really kind of a false choice then, this idea of “Social welfare AND frauds OR No Social stability AND lack of frauds”? Either the frauds will be low-level, poorly educated underclass or on a massive scale by plutocratic bankers and industrialists?

    Both for reasons of not denying assistance to innocent victims and the reducing the overall level of unavoidable fraud, I’m inclined to support social assistance.

  • E.B. Wolf

    No money huh. Sounds like Socialism to me.

  • Anonymous

    No. Sorry. I had a medical emergency. My doctor (€40) told me I’d be dead in 6 hours without treatment. He asked me if I wanted him to call an ambulance. I insisted on getting a taxi. It made no difference. In the 12 hours I was in the waiting room the occupants of the ambulances came and their passengers were wheeled out to sit beside me.

    Then (the next morning) my parents came to see how I was. They told me they’d been paying medical insurance for me since I was born. I told the nurse the insurance number and was operated on within the hour. I’m sure you’re glad that my parent’s foresight allows me to write this to you.

  • Anonymous

    “My family worked with the military overseas for 27 years”

    And private health insurance wasn’t part of the deal?

    Pull the other one.

    Nice to see you’re following in the family footsteps of working “with the military” here on Disinfo. Nice work if you can get it.

  • Anonymous

    How does it work in the States, I honestly don’t know.If a child contracts meningitis and goes to the hospital they don’t leave them to die but the family is given a $1,000,000 bill if that’s how much it costs to keep them alive?That doesn’t sound right to me. Doesn’t sound enforceable for a start. The only other option is that they leave sick children to die in the car park.

  • Anonymous

    If I click on the link will it be an advert for Thai copies of Dolce Gabbana handbags?

  • FergalR

    This place is a circle jerk.

    Carbon tax was the the proposed method of control by the elite. Now 75% of people rightly see it for the bullshit that it is.

    Vote with your conscience. You sad bastards.

  • Anonymous

    This place is a circle jerk.

    Carbon tax was the the proposed method of control by the elite. Now 75% of people rightly see it for the bullshit that it is.

    Vote with your conscience. You sad bastards.

  • Anonymous

    ExxonMobil giving $100million dollars to climate scam research: http://gcep.stanford.edu/about/sponsors.html

  • Anonymous

    Maybe that’s the key: If you don’t know ask, don’t tell.

  • Anonymous

    Or maybe:

    “Minimum healthcare for everyone” means

    minimum healthcare for everyone“.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Wow, an unsupported personal anecdote posted online about your own experience that has no relevance to what I said? I can’t believe no one takes you seriously!

  • Tuna Ghost

    That doesn’t disprove anything, genius. For fuck’s sake how hard is it to a.) post something that more than a tangetal relevance to the topic, or b.) discover what actually constitutes “proof”?

    You’re a teenager, and that’s okay. When you get to college, though, you’ll eventually take a class called “argumentative writing”. I hope you pay attention.

  • Anonymous

    “Somebody please post some data that disproves the story. Otherwise stifle yerself. ”

    Was the post I replied to cocksucker. I’m 35.

  • Anonymous

    Ladies, please, the politically correct term for “buses” is “multi-person-carbon-death-mobiles”. Didn’t you get the email and flyer?

  • E.B. Wolf

    Yea, I’ve wondered if certain posters are pros myself. But at the end of the day it’s almost impossible to identify those who are paid PR people from the suckers who have simply bought into the lie hook, line, and sinker and go on “missionary” expeditions in cyberspace.

  • Anonymous

    Because for the time being, we don’t have run-off voting. Until we get that at the national level, nothing will change. This is because you can’t simply vote for a third party candidate, and have your vote actually count right now. If you vote for a third party candidate, in essence, you’re just throwing your vote away.

    With run-off voting, you name your first choice, the Liberal, Socialist, Indie, or Green Party member you REALLY like, and if he or she doesn’t get a certain percentage of the vote, you vote then transfers to your second choice, presumably a Democrat. (Note, this also works on the Conservative side, of course.)

    Because we don’t have a Parliamentary system where coalition governments can be formed as they are in Europe, this is the only answer to the two-party dilemma.

  • Anonymous

    Why would I need private health insurance, when I’ve got government health care that comes with service to the country? Similarly, why would you need private health insurance corporate middlemen telling you what care THEY think you should have in contravention of your doctor’s advice, when you could have universal public health care paid for by your regular taxes?

    And I have no idea what your last sentence was supposed to mean. Some paranoid fantasy in your head? Dunno.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Yeah, no shit. Any time you want to explain how that counts as “disproving” the story, we’re all ears. Unless of course you can’t because your posts have no substance to them, which would be a surprise to nobody.

  • BadCitizen

    The “only” answer means we don’t have a choice. So if we have no choice, then what’s the point in voting? In actuality, when we vote, we are begging for our freedoms. Both parties deny us certain freedoms in exchange for others. It’s a big game, and it’s an illusion of choice. As long as we continue to buy the idea, that our vote/candidate is going to make a difference, then we feel like we still have power. It does not matter who gets elected, we need to face the truth, we don’t matter in any political system. The agenda will be carried out no matter who we vote for. When we vote, we are saying “here mr. politician, please take care of all our problems, while we sit on our ass and watch TV.” Don’t buy the BS ,one by one we are dropping out of the system and starting changing things on our own. We are volunteering and making “change” on our own. Voting in the system = outsourcing our power. http://imperfect-citizen.blogspot.com/

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Exactly, I’m far from rich, but I’d much rather help someone out who will help me out than fucking sit and take other peoples hard earned money. Fuck man, I mean haven’t we realized that there is no perfect government? None. Nope. Besides, when people try to make it as perfect as possible (our founding fathers and everyone that fought in the revolutionary war) there will ALWAYS be someone trying to ruin it and or take advantage… Too bad there’s no way to weed out all the fucking liar/thief/murderer/criminal/con artist bastards in the world at once.

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Read the healthcare bill yourself then. And then think about how each and every regulation will be twisted into what our corporate government finds to be the most profitable. This bill was written by INSURANCE LAWYERS. Research it. They even put a gold transaction tax in the HEALTHCARE bill. Wonder what else? read it. There’s also something in there about electronic monitoring of class A and B electronic implants… Could be interpreted many ways… READ.

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Why don’t you ever state your own opinion? I mean, like cite a source or something at least. Describe WHY you feel the way you do, rather than just sounding uninformed. No offense, but someone with a “Dont Tread On Me” logo should know a bit more than “thats wrong”. Sorry if I come off as a dick. It happens. Dont make us look like idiots.

  • Andrew

    It would also explain why he mostly relies on ad hominem.

  • Theyareallthesame

    I love Ron Paul, but he pisses me off about 9/11… I know it is political suicide for any politician to say “9/11 was an inside job, we need a new investigation”, but I couldn’t put my faith in someone who would let 3000 deaths just slide by like that. I mean the 3000 is NOTHING compared to all of the innocents/non combatants killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 15 years by U.S. troops and contractors, I think somebody needs to take accountability for it… Anyways…

  • Liam_McGonagle

    I’m glad you’re not voting. ‘Cause your reasoning here is a pretty bad shambles.

    So Jesus ain’t on the ballot, the whole enterprise is worthless? Don’t believe in gradual progress through comprimise? Sounds like the deluded ramblings of a Somali warlord.

    Let’s face facts: It takes freakin’ GENERATIONS to get meaningful change, and it takes votes to make it last. Society is an irreducably cooperative venture. There is no ‘going it alone’. You either debate and vote like a grown, civilized human being or rise in a violent coup against your fellows. Or sulk alone at home in a fetal position waiting for the Messiah.

    It took us over 80 years from the Treaty of Paris to the abolition of slavery. Ten years from that point to get the vote for African Americans. Fifty years from that point until women could vote. And it took almost another 20 years after that to enact the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act to eliminate on a nation-wide scale the most abusive manipulation of child labor by the industrialists.

    None of that would have been possible if the American people back then had been the type of worthless whimps we see around us today, wringing their hands in helpless terror waiting for Santy Claus to come and make it all better.

    Voting ain’t for whimps, so if you feel you’re not up for it, please stay home.

  • Theanarkest

    They are all the same evil.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Ha ha. Just because yer old man beat the shit out of you as a kid and made you wear your sisters’ dresses doesn’t mean you have to bend everyone else’s ear with yer old sob stories. Yeah, we get where you’re coming from . . . you NEVER respond with any relevant information or a cogent argument. . . only with hints of a self-loathing homophobia born out of your own fear that you’re queer.

    Newsflash: The rest of us don’t give a flying fuck about that crap. So as a parting gesture, ’cause I suspect that very few people will be inclined to waste their time on you henceforth: Get over yourself. You’re not that important.

  • gemmarama

    so how exactly are we pronouncing “koch”..?

  • gemmarama

    so how exactly are we pronouncing “koch”..?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    ok so why aren’t the idiots that funded obama and the democrats being exposed? liberals should have their tongues removed because they speak with free speech but don’t take anyone elses free speech. we should just throw the whole government out and start a new one. i like discussing stuff like this online but your voice only goes so far. i wish more people would get out to town meetings or political gatherings to make their voices heard in a peaceful way. the only reason to use force by firepower would be defense or retaliation against our government.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    ok so why aren’t the idiots that funded obama and the democrats being exposed? liberals should have their tongues removed because they speak with free speech but don’t take anyone elses free speech. we should just throw the whole government out and start a new one. i like discussing stuff like this online but your voice only goes so far. i wish more people would get out to town meetings or political gatherings to make their voices heard in a peaceful way. the only reason to use force by firepower would be defense or retaliation against our government.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    Yeah I don’t agree with the lesser of two evils. They’re all equal in my eyes. We need a “peoples” party. Politics is turning into religion as in Denominations. One group says they like this, dont like that etc etc. The other group says ya well we like that but lets add this to it to make it what we want. Then you have one side that says to hell with all that sh*t! We want everything for free and don’t want to work. Then I’m sitting here like wtf! Why the hell can’t anyone agree on the issues. No one is looking for a solution but just to piss the other party off. I am considering joining the missouri militia for some survial skills, more weapons training and some like minded people. I personally don’t think republican or democrat can fix the country but liberals pushing socialism will be the end of the country and thats when I’ll start opening fire on all of those bastards!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    wow i had no idea that is how it is! but if i vote for the 3rd party that is one less vote for the other 2 bs parties.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    well you know whats awesome. i lost my job in december last year a week after my daughter was born. I lost my health insurance for myself but got medicaid for my daughter. Well my doctor i had when I had insurance is also a pediatrician so he sees my daughter right. Well he actually knew my health insurance was up and out and told me to come see him for anything I need and I don’t have to pay for the visit. If he writes me a prescription I obviously have to pay for the medicine. But I have been very lucky. My doctor is a younger guy and I consider him a friend more than a doctor. I trust him with anything I tell him. He’s very honest and if he thinks something won’t work he wont do it or at least give me the option of doing it like an xray or mri or what ever the case. It’s too bad more doctors aren’t like him. If I have to I will do home surgery before heading to the ER. Nothing a little alchohol, bandages and hot sewing needles cant fix.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    It’s funny you brought that up because they were trying to rush congress to sign that peice of shit into play before even reading through all of it! That right there should tell you something is up. I can’t believe america is sitting back letting these assholes control our fate. It’s just pure and utter bullshit! U know as well as I do that capitol hill is just laughing at the people of the united states.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WNJO236SF5VLSOB6ZUCBLDBF6M MaxImpactGuns

    well i hate to burst tha bubble but our politicians think we are all sheep driven idiots to begin with. The people just need to rise up against this corrupt bullshit and hang every single one of these politicians. I’m sure a revolution is coming at some point in the future maybe our lifetime. All I tell people is make friends with people who know how to survive just incase shit hits the fan.

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Hell yeah dead on man.

  • http://twitter.com/sciamachy Sciamachy

    So the Tea Party are all Koch’s Suckers?

    Strikes me as funny how people label themselves Libertarian when they’re essentially Corporatist. They don’t stand for the liberty of the little guys – they stand for their own liberty & that of corporations to exploit any weaknesses they can find.

  • http://twitter.com/sciamachy Sciamachy

    So the Tea Party are all Koch’s Suckers?

    Strikes me as funny how people label themselves Libertarian when they’re essentially Corporatist. They don’t stand for the liberty of the little guys – they stand for their own liberty & that of corporations to exploit any weaknesses they can find.

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Yeah they are, the ones that aren’t completely ignorant to real life anyways, I’m sure some of them have no idea, living in their filth mansions bought with OUR fuuuuuckiiiing money. But yeah the general capitol hill gang are having a good ol’ time right now, too bad they don’t understand that when revolution does come (IF the sheeple EVER wake up) they will be the first to hang… I can’t wait to hear them beg…. Ahh sweet justice ( I hope)… And yeah they dont read anything, there’s a few congressional polls you could look up on what percent says they they read bills before voting on them, I don;t remember the exact numbers… Bad though..

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    No here. I don’t like her either.. But here read this. The history is not completely clear, but the rattlesnake has a long history, before we HAD a federal government. http://www.gadsden.info/history.html

  • HijackTheTeaParty

    Actually here. Good enuff Liam.

    Although Benjamin Franklin helped create the American rattlesnake symbol, his name isn’t generally attached to the rattlesnake flag. The yellow “don’t tread on me” standard is usually called a Gadsden flag, for Colonel Christopher Gadsden, or less commonly, a Hopkins flag, for Commodore Esek Hopkins.

    These two individuals were mulling about Philadelphia at the same time, making important contributions to American history and the history of the rattlesnake flag.

    Christopher Gadsden was an American patriot if ever there was one. He led Sons of Liberty in South Carolina starting in 1765, and was later made a colonel in the Continental Army. In 1775 he was in Philadelphia representing his home state in the Continental Congress. He was also one of three members of the Marine Committee who decided to outfit and man the Alfred and its sister ships.

    Esek Hopkins portrait with Dont Tread on Me flag in background
    Commodore Hopkins, portrait by C. Corbutt, 1776. Click here for a larger image. The Don’t Tread on Me flag in this image appears to be a First Navy Jack. Library of Congress, Prints and Photographs Division.

    Gadsden and Congress chose a Rhode Island man, Esek Hopkins, as the commander-in-chief of the Navy. The flag that Hopkins used as his personal standard on the Alfred is the one we would now recognize. It’s likely that John Paul Jones, as the first lieutenant on the Alfred, ran it up the gaff.

    It’s generally accepted that Hopkins’ flag was presented to him by Christopher Gadsden, who felt it was especially important for the commodore to have a distinctive personal standard. Gadsden also presented a copy of this flag to his state legislature in Charleston. This is recorded in the South Carolina congressional journals:

    “Col. Gadsden presented to the Congress an elegant standard, such as is to be used by the commander in chief of the American navy; being a yellow field, with a lively representation of a rattle-snake in the middle, in the attitude of going to strike, and these words underneath, “Don’t Tread on Me!”

  • Hmmmmm

    Well, yes the tea party and good intentions of the people were hijacked by their so called candidates…. All neocons besides Ron Paul.

  • KIM TRUHLAR

    being part of the Tea Party, I have never heard of any money coming from any corporations. It is coming from the people. So I say to you is prove it with facts, if you can. And if you can not see what the progressives are trying to do to this country, than I really feel sorry for you.

  • Andrew

    What if we fully support what the progressives are trying to do to this country?

  • Hadrian999

    so people have to counter your unsubstantiated anecdotal claims with hard facts,
    hardly seems fair. if you are on the bottom rung of the organization you wouldn’t know about any money
    anymore than someone putting up posters for a in an election know about the candidate’s funding.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3WT4CJMNBWMZSQOC2UTJDV6INI Sasquatch

    What a bunch of crap – there are billionaires’ money backing both sides of the issues affecting this administration and America…big surprise!!!? No – that’s their prerogative as Americans and non of them seek publicity about their contributions and so this article seeks to demonize them? … not really, the author only seeks to demonize those who are against policies the author believes in. In America the author has the right to slant or taint the truth anyway he wants but the real question is how does he sleep at night? The Tea Party was not started by the Kochs but they signed on because they agree with the grass roots movement which began without any participation by them. On the other hand the democrats have no grass root movement and only get support by communist groups, union members and other corrupt organizations like acorn who are paid to go to rallies and leave a mess everywhere they go (in contrast with tea party rallies).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3WT4CJMNBWMZSQOC2UTJDV6INI Sasquatch

    What a bunch of crap – there are billionaires’ money backing both sides of the issues affecting this administration and America…big surprise!!!? No – that’s their prerogative as Americans and non of them seek publicity about their contributions and so this article seeks to demonize them? … not really, the author only seeks to demonize those who are against policies the author believes in. In America the author has the right to slant or taint the truth anyway he wants but the real question is how does he sleep at night? The Tea Party was not started by the Kochs but they signed on because they agree with the grass roots movement which began without any participation by them. On the other hand the democrats have no grass root movement and only get support by communist groups, union members and other corrupt organizations like acorn who are paid to go to rallies and leave a mess everywhere they go (in contrast with tea party rallies).

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