Moe Tucker: Tea Party Member, Patriot

The Velvet Underground in 1966, with Tucker pictured on bottom-right.

The Velvet Underground in 1966, with Tucker pictured on bottom-right.

Noted percussionist and original member of the Velvet Underground, Moe Tucker has recently been pursued by mainstream media for “her support of the Tea Party movement”. Left-wing and right-wing media and politicians have seized upon her statements and a brief appearance on a local news broadcast (a year and a half later) to celebrate or decry her positions and use her as a pawn in their respective arguments, but both sides are ignoring the truth of her message, which is the pressing need for a true third party option in the United States.

She does, in fact support the Georgia politicians that comprise the local Tea Party, but with a close parsing of her comments and viewpoints what you find is a very straightforward approach to reforming the bloated government and endemic corruption the American people are seeking today.

Moe Tucker is not a right-winger, just looking for representative democracy (from the news video clip):

My anger stems from the unbelievable (criminal!) waste of money on pork and earmarks. It drives me nuts to see that X millions are being allocated to build a turtle tunnel, a donkey museum, a salamander crossing, etc, etc, etc. Billions spent every friggin’ year on totally unnecessary crap so that these Congressbums can tell their constituents that they “brought home the bacon” and get re-elected. I’m sorry, but I don’t want to pay for any Congress SOB’s vote buying, and sure as hell not in these very very worrisome times!

This election cycle has passed without any development of another alternative to the Democrats/Republicans and the Tea Party as defined by mainstream media, which has painted all of the splinter groups trying to gain members and who oppose the two main parties with the simple broad brush of “Tea Party = Right Wing Nutcases”, but as more and more individuals come forward with their own solutions to the problems facing the United States and it’s populace, the closer we can get to the establishment of a legitimate third option to what is now essentially a one-party oligarchy dominated by corporate interests. It will soon become clear that the left and right’s attacks on the “Tea Partiers” are not in fact their fearless defense of our liberties, but are in fact a shrewd hedge against ANY party siphoning potential votes from their campaigns.

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  • Andrew

    She acknowledges the need for a third political party, but she joins a movement that isn’t a political party and is mostly made up of Republicans.

    With all the problems in this country she’s most upset by the “waste” of money, which is nothing more than an intellectual construct.

  • Andrew

    She acknowledges the need for a third political party, but she joins a movement that isn’t a political party and is mostly made up of Republicans.

    With all the problems in this country she’s most upset by the “waste” of money, which is nothing more than an intellectual construct.

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    Weird, a Tea Party apologist. It’s not a media construction that the Tea Party is full of morons. Watch Glenn Beck for five minutes and “nutcase” isn’t hyperbole.

    • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

      Henry,With all due respect, Glenn Beck actually has stated on numerous occasions that he is not part of the tea party movement, though he sympathizes with it. If you look at demonstrations he has led, they are either part of the self-promoting 9-12 movement or, religious displays. Now, if you are going to speak of tea party “morons” and “nutcases” like Ron Paul or Rick Santelli, or TP Express GOP operatives like Sarah Palin, then I, as the part of that movement might be more open to your criticisms.However, If you are going to demonize an entire movement and its spokepersons, make sure that you are dispensing correct information, lest others in the know feel that you are just regurgitating information from White House talking point memos.Respectfully,Vas

      • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

        Uh, OK: Then Sarah Palin is a moron. Does that help? And her brand of stupidity is in the same general ballpark as Glenn Beck.

        • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

          Yeah, I agree. Sarah Palin is also part of the GOP Tea Party Express group that exists solely to hijack the tea party movement. Her brand of stupidity may be on par with Beck’s, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s not a tea partier. Sorry.

      • Liam_McGonagle

        To me the most humorous aspect of the Tea Party may be it’s lack of courage and real moral commitment rather than lack of policies or total misidentification of the enemy as government rather than corporate plutocracy.

        Don’t you just love the way these fat, old middle-aged white folks from toney suburbs gather to wage American flags as if they were great, courageous patriots and then immediately deny any connection to their behavior when challenged on it? Examples:

        1. “We’re not racist, those are aberrant outsiders not affiliated with us” after innumerable nationally published and televised pictures of the jerks carrying signs with racist slogans, direct on-the-record quotes from prominent candidates challenging the legitimacy of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and even the 14th Amendment.

        2. “We’re not violent thugs”, after contretemps between Joe Miller’s bodyguards and a journalist and a gang of Rand Paul supporters stomped on a girl’s head.

        3. “We’re not ignorant”, after repeated abominations against the English language by Sarah Palin and outright advocacy of destroying the public education system.

        4. “We’re not stooges for Big Business,” after Rand Paul practically gives BP, a non-American corporation, a slobbery BJ saying that holding them responsible for destroying gulf fisheries is tantamount to highway robbery.

        5. “We’re not against democracy”, after numerous Tea Bagger candidates advocate repeal of popular elections mandated by the 17th Amendment.

        Yeah, real courage of their convictions there.

        And now Glenn Beck, who went to the trouble to cohost multiple monster rallies with Palin and other Tea Baggers says, “I’m not a I Tea Party member.”

        I suppose a person’d have to be an actual Tea Bagger to be dumb enough to believe that.

        • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

          Liam,Dude, I was involved with the tea party when the movement was still unnamed, unknown by the larger media and Marilyn Chambers was running as VP candidate for the Boston Tea Party. I think I understand what I’m involved in.Cool about the demographic info you are sharing. Alas, I’m a skinny mixed-race Taino with profitable tits who lives in the country, who has been involved in mostly progressive protests since I was a wee lass. What’s your point? Did you want me to fit your stereotype, or are you gonna call me an whitey-worshipper/Uncle Tom for not following said stereotype.Before we start you need a sense of humor sweetie about tea party stuff: http://upirsmark.com/2010/08/19/the-upirs-mark-tea-bag-special/Now that we are all little calmer now…1. I’ll give you that. But, I’d rather have a minority of sign waving nuts within my midst, than supporting the systematically racist Democratic Party. I have a problem with a party that was founded by a man who thought ethnic cleansing was acceptable social policy. This party championed eugenics, brought about segregation, in addition to still presently believing that brown people are inferior to whites and therefore need condescending social programs and drug czars. GOP are racist too, but at least they are more upfront and less institutional about it.2. Did you see the video of the woman throwing a sign into Rand Paul’s car window prior to getting her ass beat? I am not defending the thugs, I’m just saying she too was engaged in violence, though comparably milder by a long shot. Might I also add, that every political movement has their violent pieces of shit. Anarchists have their crazed window breakers that don’t get that violence is a last resort. Republicrats and Democrans have their cops and military. While most people strive for peace, we do live in a violent society, and occasionally the bad eggs will crack. As for me, I’m a pacifist, but I have my guns just in case.3. Sarah Palin is a GOP operative within the Tea Party Express hijack group. Why should I give a shit about her? As far as I am concerned, she is also a victim of the public (government) education (indoctrination) system, just like our President and the majority of the American public.4. How is Rand Paul any different than the majority of the politicians (left and right) who support BP? Most of them do. It ain’t right, but they do. Also, since when is Rand Paul the only member of the tea party? I’m anti-corporate and proud, and I am part of the movement.5. Hearst was the reason the 17th Amendment was pushed through, so the media and big business could have more control over the Senate. Hearst was also the reason why Spanish American war was manufactured and, pot/hemp were made illegal. Hearst was not liberty’s friend.Sean Hannity might enjoy teabagging, but I just can’t put the sack in my mouth. I prefer the pink bits. You are also reading repeating Democratic Party talking points. How cute. And, what part did you not understand about Glenn Beck sympathizing with the tea party, while not being a member. I sympathize with the desire for gay men to be accepted in society. I like to show my support for gay men. Does that mean that I just grew a penis, while developing a lust for buttsex and Broadway musical in order for me to become a gay man? Of course not, that’s silly. Just because you support something, it doesn’t necessarily mean you are a member of it.Cheers,Vas

          • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

            Seems insane to me to want to carry the mantle of the Tea Party. You’ve lost the name, move on. It now represents Dick Armey’s vision for America. That might be wrong, but that’s the situation. It’s not defeat to recognize that the term Tea Party has been trashed beyond recognition. And given that many members of the Tea Party are pro-corporate, fanatically-religious racists, it strikes me as strange that you’d want to be associated with them whatsoever. I’d love to believe that the righteous indignation of the Tea Party could create a real movement for systemic change in the country, but when so many in the Tea Party are system-enablers, just saying, “But there are other people in the movement too” is virtually meaningless. If this is a Democracy, you lost the election.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            The Island of Boriken legally lost its name, and its native language to the Spaniards. Tainos lost their “existence” to the Spanish census of 1790, and the US government refused to give it back by perpetuating the Taino Extinction Myth. The US Gov’t and Hearst tried to force English and Statehood upon us. Guess what. We kept on fighting for the language, the culture and the reality. Neither English nor statehood, were ever successfully forced on upon us. Puerto Ricans still call their Island Boriken (or Borinquen) and themselves Boricuas. After centuries, we’re finally reclaiming our Taino language and our very existence. I believe it was Spanish Dictator Francisco Franco once said, “Whoever controls the language, also controls the culture.” With that knowledge, my cultural conscience and my adoption of the US as my second homeland, do you really think I am going to stop fighting against a bunch of GOP Corporatists over a name? My people fought for over 500 years to keep the name “Boriken” alive in its meaning. The tea party is not important to you, that much is obvious. It is to me, and until it ceases to be important, I will not stop fighting. Believe it or not, there are others like me, who are United States Americans, and still believe that we can take the movement back. I completely understand if you disagree, just as I disagree with you in your views of the tea party, and your assumption that we live in a democracy. Last time I checked we lived in a Constitutional Republic that has been undergoing a gradual transition into a Bourgeois Socialist State (as defined by Marx in the 3rd chapter of the Manifesto) enforced by a Military Complex, and will eventually turn into an outright Corporate Plutocracy if we don’t watch it.I’m no longer a progressive, but I don’t approve of the creep that the Government and Corporate Conglomerates are engaged in. Hence, my dogged fight to keep the movement alive in its original intention of keeping excessive government interference and its exploitation of the masses for corporate gain, in check.

          • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

            I think “profitable tits” (whatever that means) just became me new favourite phrase…

            And, more substantially, Vanessa, I appreciate your informed and intelligent stance. But from my perspective here in Canada, the Tea Baggers just scare the fuck out of many of us…
            I live in Toronto, where we just elected a blow-hard high-school-bully-esque mayor on the back of the kind of anger I think is driving many to the “Tea Party.”
            As you do espouse more informed and thoughtful ideas than I hear from the “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” (with apologies to Paddy Chayefsky’s ghost), I think it behooves those such as yourself to get AWAY FAR FAR AWAY from the term ‘Tea Party.” The public image of a Tea Bagger is just bad optics.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            Bud,Tea baggers scare the fuck out of you? Honey, there is nothing wrong with sucking testicles. ;)You don’t hear these thoughtful ideas coming from tea party people in the media, for the same reason most people assume that all gays in pride parades wear jewel-encrusted thongs and anarchist are lunatic bombthrowers who kill babies and make love to seals. Manipulation by the powers that be.Lots of tea party people are calm and intelligent (when not provoked.) You don’t hear them because:1) They are embarrassed to be associated with the media stereotype.2) They just don’t make an public issue of their politics.3) They are politically unsophisticated or lack proper education.4) They’re white and they are afraid of being called “racist” on account of expressing a dissenting opinion about the Federal government — which so happens to be run by a man of mixed ethnicity.5) Are old and not web savvy.I have no such encumbrances.Thanks for your insights, your experiences, and for enjoying my tits.

          • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

            first: I just find “tea baggers” more amusing to say than “tea partiers,” is all…

            I think your 1) point is exactly what I was getting at when urging the sane people who might identify as “tea partiers” should distance themselves from the mainstream image of “tea partiers.” A new designation is in order…the flipside of that is “who gets to decide?” though, so…I haven’t a clue what to suggest to get yourselves some honest attention.

            And finally, could you please explain the phrase “profitable tits”? Are you nursing, izzat it? :)

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            first: I figured. But just be aware that you walked into that one.

            I do agree that we might need a new name, but first, we gotta wait for the dust to settle. The pissing contest is still happening. As for leadership, there is no centralized leadership, which is what makes it fun. ;-)

            last: My profitable tits: http://vaslittlecrow.com/model-portfolio/

          • Liam_McGonagle

            Is there a real thought to be found anywhere in that shambles you posted?

            You were part of a group that was not named the tea party, yet you resent others “hijacking” the tea party name. WTF?

            So Obama talking about waving statutory damages caps was giving BP a sweetheart deal? Get real.

            Love the way you through your man Rand under the bus. The tea party continuously spouts out these horrible, horrible offensively stupid ideas, and the Tea Bagger’s only response is to try to pass them off as “bad apples” with no real significance for the overall party. Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, Joe Miller, Christine O’Donnell, Paladino, on and on and on and on . . . Come one, we’re not THAT fuckin’ gullible!

            Your historical analysis vis-a-vis the 17th Amendment is worse than worthless–it’s truely horrible. That amendment provides for popular election of the U.S. Senate, instead of appointment by plutocractic state government elites. You are arguing AGAINST DEMOCRACY. Point blank. That simple.

            And what the hell is the operative difference between “being a member of the Tea Party” and “being in sympathy with the Tea Party”? Is the Tea Party a formal body with a constitution and procedurally installed set of officers? Is there an official register of Tea Party members on file somewhere? No. None at all. Ergo there is absolutely no difference between “being a member of the Tea Party” and “being in sympathy with the Tea Party”; if you like their ideas, you are a Tea Partier.

            Let’s face it, the real legacy of the tea party is going to be their ignorance and hypocrisy. I’m sick and tired of all the Tea Party backtracking, the CONSTANT backtracking. Where’s the accountability? Where’s the integrity?

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            Liam,

            Why do you resort to name calling when I disassemble your arguments (talking points) with examples and supporting evidence? You do realize that’s why I was ruder to you than most other commenters, right? I hate being a complete ass to people, but you seem to be working overtime to get my goat, which I find adorable. At least Henry comes up with original ideas and thoughtfully takes me to task on specific points. You are just intellectually lazy and can’t deal with the fact that what you perceive as a tea party robot is running circles around you in a debate. I’m very sorry to say that, but that’s how you are making me feel.

            Paul Rand is not my man. He is running as a representative in Kentucky. I live in Minnesota. I don’t have any vested interest in him winning or losing that election, regardless of whether he is related to Ron Paul or not. How can I throw a politician under a bus, when he has no relevance to my political life whatsoever? Ditto for Sarah Palin, Joe Miller, Christine O’Donnell, Paladino, on and on and on and on… I am not voting for them, and I cannot vote for them because they are neither in my state, nor running for President at this time. Why give myself ulcers over them, like you do? By the way, my man’s name is Loki — he’s my husband.

            I am a member of the tea party, but the tea party is not a single entity. Go back and read jhalpin666′s comments on the three major types of tea party groups, so I don’t have to do the cutandpasta.

            We’ll agree to disagree on the 17th Amendment. I think it’s a boon to legalized bribery, media manipulation and pressure groups designed to subvert Democracy. You think it’s a boon to Democracy. My arguments failed to convince you, and you haven’t offered any evidence to support it aside from, “it’s direct democracy so it’s must be better!” I don’t feel that you appreciate how complex the issue is. I am gathering from your statements that you feel like I fail to understand how simple the issue is. This is obviously a matter of personal taste. Can you agree on that?

            What the hell is the operative between being an asshole, and being friends with an asshole? You can be the member of something without formal organization. Have you never been part of an informal club, or an international group without any sort of rules? I have. They can be fun, and you can learn a lot. Try it sometime. If you are tired of the backtracking and inconsistency, you must really hate humans.

            “Where’s the accountability? Where’s the integrity? ”

            Accountability and integrity aren’t things you find from without, they are traits that one must develop from within. If that weren’t the case, everyone would be subservient and of the same mind. Humans have free will. Regardless of how hallowed institutions might seem to be, or how strict they are in enforcing their rules, people will be capable of good, evil, ambiguous and just plain weird.

            What do you do for a living? Who butters your bread? I am fascinated by how you seem to find me to be threatening. I want to know why.

            Curiously,
            Vas

          • Liam_McGonagle

            Wow again. Me threatened by you? You’re the most charmingly idiotic poster I’ve seen since MeatHandler.

            What fantasy world are you living in? Apparently a world where I find your long, rambling diarrhea -like posts something other than:

            1.) Freakin’ hillarious!
            2.) An excellent advertisement for voting against the Tea Party platform

            So, no I don’t take your failure to address any of the point’s I’ve made as a sign of hostility–merely evidence of your feeble mindedness.

            If the orderlies in your mental home ever read your posts, I recommend they give you an extra cookie before beddie-byes tonight, you’re so darling. You’ve given us all so many laughs here with your posts.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            Liam,I thought better of my original response, and now I must ask, what points have I not addressed? I would like to answer them. Or, are you just troll-baiting and are simply not used to being blessed by Eris?Vas

          • Dave

            This is the best comments sections I have seen on Disinfo in quite a while.

            The best part is seeing a McGonagle getting his ass handed back to him on a plate.

            I love how he has liked all his own posts too! XD

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            Thank you so much Dave. Liam was absolutely fun to play with. After having read all his articles on Disinfo, I realized that he’s such cutie pie when it come to his opinions. ;)

            He liked his own posts? Seriously? Giving him the benefit of a doubt, can a person even do that?

          • lost in thought

            You’re absolutely bent on having the last word. Aren’t you?

        • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

          PS: In case you weren’t aware, the government is a tool of the corporate plutocracy.

          • Liam_McGonagle

            How’s about you put your anti-government commitment to the test? Nothing big, just a single day without you accepting any government assistance at all. Just one day. Let’s see what you’d have to do:

            1. Don’t use any paved roads to go anywhere–funded by government spending. Bad, bad, bad.

            2. Don’t use any utilities–no water, no electricity, no gas. Infrastructure provided through government backed bonds, if not directly established by a government agency in and of itself.

            3. Put a big sign on your house saying “Free Stuff–Take What You Like, Free of Charge”. Cause policing services are from dat damn gubmint, you are basically an open target for robbery and assault.

            4. Work a 20 hour day for less than minimum wage. No protection under labor laws for you! ‘Come on, it’s only one day! Before the labor laws got in place, people did that shit 7 days a week every week til the day they died.

            5. Feel free to ingest as much lead and asbestos as you please–no environmental protection laws for you! You know how they get in the way of the entrepreneurial free market capitalism.

            6. If you should happen to have a disagreement with any company you contract with, just laugh off your losses. No legal recourse for you! Courts are paid for by that tyrannical government of yours!

            7. If you happen to live at any point west of the Mississippi river, evacuate estward immediately. The Louisiana Purchase was funded by filthy federal government dollars. None of that for you!

            8. If you happen to be anything other than a rich, white christian male immediately surrender all your civil rights. No government, no 19th Amendment, no 14th Amendment, hell, no United States–the fight against the Nazis, Fascists and Tojo and his gang was funded with nasty tax-based governement. To the labor camp for you!

            So how you liking that? Destroying government still seem like a really good idea? Or are you gonna tell me that with government institutions gone away we’re finally gonna see the arrival of the Age of Aquarius, and everything’s gonna be easy, free and grooovy?

            I can’t wait for you to post your “Day Without Government” webcam on the internet. Wait, that won’t work either–the internet was created as a government project.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            “How’s about you put your anti-government commitment to the test? Nothing big, just a single day without you accepting any government assistance at all. Just one day.”

            Only one day… Pfff… Amateur.

            1. I live in the country. If I want to, I can go for days without paved roads. In fact, this winter, I probably will live off my food storage for a month or two, any maybe not even drive at all. Being snowed in rural Minnesota can be fun.

            2. My first house had no running water or toilets. It required a five minute walk to get hydrated, and a shovel for shit. his one has a private well. I have a phobia of gas heating, so I don’t use it. We have a wood burning stove as our main source of heat, and for cooking. When we have blackouts, sometimes for days, there is no electricity. In fact, the only reason why we even bothered with the grid is because the government forced us to so in order to have telecommunications, before cell phones became affordable. The county and state governments also told us that we were not allowed to have a gray water system. You can read the gory details here: http://vaslittlecrow.livejournal.com/669667.html

            3. I have weapons to keep criminals at bay. Until recently (because for years the city of Rice used to have only one cop, the county limited staff, and I live in a nearby township,) people were advice to shoot criminals and call afterward since police response times would probably exceed hours. Rice and the county now have enough cops, so now I don’t need to point shotguns at intruders anymore, but I would if I had to do so again.

            4. I worked at a daycare in my teens where I got paid less than minimum wage, I got good experience for teaching and, my boss was a total doll. I quit that job and made the mistake of getting a “real” job cutting roses for more than minimum wages, alongside undocumented workers, in the unsafest working conditions, with banned pesticides, and a boss who sexually harassed me — and no one gave shit. I worked regular jobs, and hated most of them. I used to be hooker who traded for food, when my ex-husband left me and I was too poor for welfare (yes there is such a thing.) I pulled myself out of poverty and whoring by selling scrounged garbage turned to art on consignment. Now, I work as an independent contractor and am on the verge of retirement at age 37. Do you think I give a shit about labor laws for myself? I think they’re good, but not needed.

            5. I drink alcohol, I used to smoke, I used to live in an urban environment, I’ve done most every drug known to man. I’ve put chemicals much worse into my body than the ones you’ve described. Then, I got sick of the chemicals and the bullshit, and moved to the country in a township that’s clean and had a lot less regulation that any filthy city I’ve ever lived in.

            6. I didn’t say I was a full libertarian or anarchist, but for shits and giggles, I’ll answer this one. I had a lot less problems with people attempting to rip me off when I participated in the barter economy (whored, cooked for people, made art, dumpster dove, sorted beads, and made herbal medicines for a living,) than I do now that I’m legit. Even in this day, because I live in the middle of nowhere, I forage and barter with my neighbor if I can’t get to modernity for any reason. If someone screwed over me in the underground economy, civilized conversation, or a swift punch to the face seemed to solve most issues.

            7. You mean the Louisiana Purchase that took place when the United States bought stolen property (that wasn’t even technically property) from France and Spain? I can always move back to Puerto Rico, y’know, since it was also property stolen by the US. Or, the rightful owners of the land can take it back and let me live here. YAY GOVERNMENT!

            8. Amerind society existed before the United States or the Constitution. Many tribes were egalitarian and had completely different views on gender (though not all.) Some, like the Hopi, didn’t have any sort of discernible government and they got along fine. Amerinds were also engaging in wars against invaders long since before the whites came. In fact, I seem to recall something about how the Algonquin completely annihilated their Viking invaders. I like the Constitution for the most part because it provides a compass for the nation. There are parts I am happy that they were amended, parts that I think should never change and, other parts that should be nuked, but it’s not entirely necessary.

            I am not advocating for the destruction of government, I am advocating for its reduction. Governments come and go, but the human spirit endures in spite of it. If our government goes, life would be brutal, difficult, and it would require a lot of self-discipline and community collaboration. But then again, that’s the animal kingdom for you, and last time I checked, we are still part of it.

            I don’t use web cams, that’s not my style. If didn’t have the Internet to communicate my months and weeks without government, I would probably do what I did in the nineties: Use handwriting, silk screen copier, or a, printing press. Failing that, face to face communication.

            You are so cute Liam!

          • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

            “I live in the country. If I want to, I can go for days without paved roads.”

            Pretty much stopped there. Good for you, but it’s totally irrelevant. If you notice, there’s 300 million people in this country and many millions of people live in the city. A barter economy is a nice dream, but when you’ve got the likes of BP, non-regulation of industry is going to fuck us up a lot further.

            Your advocacy of government reduction is that life becomes more “brutal, difficult, and it would require a lot of self-discipline and community collaboration.” A nice utopian fantasy, but it would also likely lead to millions of people dying. And you began this by calling out Democrats for being founded by a eugenicist who advocated ethnic cleansing. In true Tea Party fashion, this is exactly what you’re advocating.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            Many advanced urban-based civilizations got along just fine without paved roads, or for that matter wheeled vehicles (the coastal Inca immediately come to mind.) Also, in case you haven’t heard many cities are reverting back to crushed asphalt or rock, because pavement is environmentally and financially unsustainable (especially with the crap grade of cement they use in the US.) Pavement is a nice, yet environmentally insane convenience, but it is not a necessity. Also BP would not even be a blip in the economy, if the government didn’t heavily subsidize it, in addition to the manufacture of expensive products that require oil, or the paved roadways necessary to make it easier for those products to operate.Who says we can’t have a barter economy? The Federal Reserve? The World Bank? You do realize that’s how a lot of the super rich get around sales taxes, rights? Goodie bags, pressies, that’s what they call it. It’s barter. So why is what’s good for the crazy wealthy and those who opt out of the economy, not good for the rest of us. Don’t get me wrong, I like the convenience of capitalism, but it’s not a need.How is me having to punch a person for screwing me over a transaction, or me having to shoot a criminal because there are no cops a fantasy utopia? I fucking lived that shit. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t people dying by the millions (whether by embargoes, food regulation, wars, etc.) already because of government policies? Might I also ask what specific ethnic group I am calling to be exterminated? Have I at any time called for the extermination of the weak, the stupid or the “useless”? Please quote specific examples of where I might have said this. Having faith in people’s abilities to be self-sufficient when the need strikes (as evidenced during the great Depression) is not the same thing as genocide or social Darwinism.Also since you missed my third-to-last paragraph to my previous response, let me repeat it, in true tea party fashion: “I am not advocating for the destruction of government, I am advocating for its reduction. Governments come and go, but the human spirit endures in spite of it..”

          • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

            I’m in full agreement that we need a total reworking of our financial system. I just think in the interim there would be total havoc. And the poor would likely be most affected – who are a large percentage minority. So you obviously don’t call for genocide directly, but the only way for this kind of massive reconstruction is via some kind of upheaval.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            I fully understand why the ideology I am hanging onto is concerning to you. But this is how I see it: The poor and minorities are already affected the worst, yet the majority of US aid is going to white able-bodied Americans. That makes no sense to me. With that said, I feel that your fear that millions of lives are at stake when it comes to US policy, is true. Perhaps, I can present why I support a very unpopular ideology from a different perspective; the perspective that of an farmer’s wife. I see the ins and outs of a corporate farming, so perhaps you can get a glimpse into why I do not agree with your view about genocide. Honestly, I feel that by reducing government we might prevent a more violent upheavals, and maybe we might even save lives.

            American farmers produce too much food for the citizens of this country. Under normal circumstances, that would mean that commodities would be insanely inexpensive, and with minimal regulation to assure the purity of the food supply, it would be safe to eat. This glut of food could easily be sold to other countries at reasonable prices, or even given away directly to countries that need it in times of crisis. Good farms succeed, farms with poor practices dies. Import tariffs can be used to prevent markets from being flooded by nations that do subsidize their crops to eliminate competition. A national emergency food storage can be formed for times when crops are devastated. New products can be developed with the excess and waste materials as well. Hunger issues are solved and farmers make enough to live on and to save.

            Unfortunately, government over-regulation makes such a scenario next to impossible. The incorporation that’s almost required for a farm in our economic climate, automatically makes a farm’s sole goal to make money at any cost. It also turns the farm into an artificial person (improperly) protected by the 14th Amendment that is shielded from taxes, legal liability and accountability. In order to qualify for government aid, food must be sprayed with a certain amount of fertilizer, herbicide and pesticide — which makes sustainable farming nearly impossible, and encourage companies to develop GMOs with high chemical tolerances. To meet USDA standards, food must be a certain size, shape and weight; if it does not, it goes to rot, since giving it away for free cuts into profit margins. In these situation, the US government buys these excess commodities to give away to welfare recipients. These commodities are distributed according to government nutritional standards (which are mostly the work of bureaucrats and lobby groups, not nutritionists.) As a result these welfare recipients end up with low quality food at the food shelf that fit the government nutritional standards in the most minimal way possible, and do not take their individual activity levels account. As per government subsidy requirements, commodities must be traded in markets prior to distribution, so speculators can set prices. Because of corn ethanol requirements, food crops are diverted to non-alimentary purposes that only benefit the petroleum industry’s green washing tactics. By the time whatever is left is distributed for foreign aid, the lowest quality garbage is left. Instead of helping nations in need, these low quality, but food flood markets of poor nations. As an unintentional consequence, the struggling agricultural industries of developing countries are undermined and destroyed with kindness, because there is no way sustainably grown food can compete with free. At worst, corrupt governments take the bulk of aid food and leave their people to starve.

            I do not want to perpetuate the status quo that I just described. And that, is why I support the tea party movement.

          • Liam_McGonagle

            Wow. Amateur indeed. I thought Christine O’Donnell was an idiot. But now that I see you’re running on a “No Running Water Platform” (vide #2), you’ve changed my mind entirely: You’re the Real Deal.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            Liam,

            In case you didn’t catch the joke, I was making a reference to your blog. http://thegreatamateurhour.blogspot.com/

            I am the real deal, I have a bigger cock than you, and I’m a girl.

            You cutie pie!

    • jhalpin666

      Hi Henry, thanks for reading.

      While it is certainly true that the “Tea Party” entity that has been constructed by mainstream media is predominated by violent right-wing extremists, it’s important to do you own research into the many smaller groups that are centrist, left-wing, pro-environment and in many cases far more progressive than the media would care to illuminate. Why?

      Because most mainstream media members see themselves as arbiters of the public good rather than impartial recorders of current events. These caretakers of the great unwashed appear to have sworn to silently obey the Ralph Nader dictum from the 2000 election and cling to their respective “parties” rather than truly educate the populace about what alternatives to the current monocracy can exist.

      So, yes Henry, by all means, if you’re taking your information from mass media, I am a Tea Party apologist. As clever as your comment is (first!lolol) and if you do your own research and take a moment to read thoughtfully what I have scribbled as a preface to the interview with Ms. Tucker, you’ll hopefully come to a clearer conclusion of the dialogue I am seeking to begin.

      • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

        Well, as much as I love V.U., Moe Tucker’s line of “I’m against socialism but don’t touch my social security” is as without logic as most Tea Party rhetoric.

        The vast majority of the Tea Party are Sarah Palin fanatics or Ron Paul libertarians. And frankly both are untenable – because it takes a severe delusion to think that giving corporations more power is somehow going to fix our problems.

        And yeah, I don’t know about all these “progressive” Tea Party members, and they probably don’t get a lot of media attention because there are six of them. The Tea Party is a right wing movement. There are people on the left who are angry at the system – but if they align themselves with this movement, they’re doing it wrong. I mean, seriously, how can a progressive be aligned with a movement that thinks Obama is a socialist?

        • jhalpin666

          Henry, the mainstream media left and right WANTS you to think that all groups intent on eliminating the gross negligence and rampant corruption that plagues the current two parties in the U.S. government is right wing, but this is not the case.

          Think of the “Tea Party Phenomenon” is as three things 1. THE Tea Party which is a right-wing nuthouse, bent on a bizarre agenda they cannot fully articulate; the Tea Partiers, which is an amalgam of differing interests uniting in the venerable but incoherent goal of eliminating the government, and lastly in my mind, the real threat to the status quo which are community-based, grass roots political movements that exist but are suffocating due to the smear tactics of mass media.

          In lieu of being able to complete my own research, I’ll cede the discussion to Vanesa who clearly has more experience on the ground than I.

          Thanks again for taking time out to participate in the discussion.

          • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

            jhalpin666,

            Thank you so much for publishing this article in Disinfo, and for giving people the opportunity to express their opinions. It really is heartening to know that someone actually understands what the tea party movement is up against, and that the movement is more diverse than the media depicts it to be.

            Gratefully,
            Vas

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    Weird, a Tea Party apologist. It’s not a media construction that the Tea Party is full of morons. Watch Glenn Beck for five minutes and “nutcase” isn’t hyperbole.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Henry,With all due respect, Glenn Beck actually has stated on numerous occasions that he is not part of the tea party movement, though he sympathizes with it. If you look at demonstrations he has led, they are either part of the self-promoting 9-12 movement or, religious displays. Now, if you are going to speak of tea party “morons” and “nutcases” like Ron Paul or Rick Santelli, or TP Express GOP operatives like Sarah Palin, then I, as the part of that movement might be more open to your criticisms.However, If you are going to demonize an entire movement and its spokepersons, make sure that you are dispensing correct information, lest others in the know feel that you are just regurgitating information from White House talking point memos.Respectfully,Vas

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    Uh, OK: Then Sarah Palin is a moron. Does that help? And her brand of stupidity is in the same general ballpark as Glenn Beck.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    To me the most humorous aspect of the Tea Party may be it’s lack of courage and real moral commitment rather than lack of policies or total misidentification of the enemy as government rather than corporate plutocracy.

    Don’t you just love the way these fat, old middle-aged white folks from toney suburbs gather to wage American flags as if they were great, courageous patriots and then immediately deny any connection to their behavior when challenged on it? Examples:

    1. “We’re not racist, those are aberrant outsiders not affiliated with us” after innumerable nationally published and televised pictures of the jerks carrying signs with racist slogans, direct on-the-record quotes from prominent candidates challenging the legitimacy of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and even the 14th Amendment.

    2. “We’re not violent thugs”, after contretemps between Joe Miller’s bodyguards and a journalist and a gang of Rand Paul supporters stomped on a girl’s head.

    3. “We’re not ignorant”, after repeated abominations against the English language by Sarah Palin and outright advocacy of destroying the public education system.

    4. “We’re not stooges for Big Business,” after Rand Paul practically gives BP, a non-American corporation, a slobbery BJ saying that holding them responsible for destroying gulf fisheries is tantamount to highway robbery.

    5. “We’re not against democracy”, after numerous Tea Bagger candidates advocate repeal of popular elections mandated by the 17th Amendment.

    Yeah, real courage of their convictions there.

    And now Glenn Beck, who went to the trouble to cohost multiple monster rallies with Palin and other Tea Baggers says, “I’m not a I Tea Party member.”

    I suppose a person’d have to be an actual Tea Bagger to be dumb enough to believe that.

  • jhalpin666

    Hi Henry, thanks for reading.

    While it is certainly true that the “Tea Party” entity that has been constructed by mainstream media is predominated by violent right-wing extremists, it’s important to do you own research into the many smaller groups that are centrist, left-wing, pro-environment and in many cases far more progressive than the media would care to illuminate. Why?

    Because most mainstream media members see themselves as arbiters of the public good rather than impartial recorders of current events. These caretakers of the great unwashed appear to have sworn to silently obey the Ralph Nader dictum from the 2000 election and cling to their respective “parties” rather than truly educate the populace about what alternatives to the current monocracy can exist.

    So, yes Henry, by all means, if you’re taking your information from mass media, I am a Tea Party apologist. As clever as your comment is (first!lolol) and if you do your own research and take a moment to read thoughtfully what I have scribbled as a preface to the interview with Ms. Tucker, you’ll hopefully come to a clearer conclusion of the dialogue I am seeking to begin.

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    Well, as much as I love V.U., Moe Tucker’s line of “I’m against socialism but don’t touch my social security” is as without logic as most Tea Party rhetoric.

    The vast majority of the Tea Party are Sarah Palin fanatics or Ron Paul libertarians. And frankly both are untenable – because it takes a severe delusion to think that giving corporations more power is somehow going to fix our problems.

    And yeah, I don’t know about all these “progressive” Tea Party members, and they probably don’t get a lot of media attention because there are six of them. The Tea Party is a right wing movement. There are people on the left who are angry at the system – but if they align themselves with this movement, they’re doing it wrong. I mean, seriously, how can a progressive be aligned with a movement that thinks Obama is a socialist?

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Yeah, I agree. Sarah Palin is also part of the GOP Tea Party Express group that exists solely to hijack the tea party movement. Her brand of stupidity may be on par with Beck’s, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s not a tea partier. Sorry.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Liam,Dude, I was involved with the tea party when the movement was still unnamed, unknown by the larger media and Marilyn Chambers was running as VP candidate for the Boston Tea Party. I think I understand what I’m involved in.Cool about the demographic info you are sharing. Alas, I’m a skinny mixed-race Taino with profitable tits who lives in the country, who has been involved in mostly progressive protests since I was a wee lass. What’s your point? Did you want me to fit your stereotype, or are you gonna call me an whitey-worshipper/Uncle Tom for not following said stereotype.Before we start you need a sense of humor sweetie about tea party stuff: http://upirsmark.com/2010/08/19/the-upirs-mark-tea-bag-special/Now that we are all little calmer now…1. I’ll give you that. But, I’d rather have a minority of sign waving nuts within my midst, than supporting the systematically racist Democratic Party. I have a problem with a party that was founded by a man who thought ethnic cleansing was acceptable social policy. This party championed eugenics, brought about segregation, in addition to still presently believing that brown people are inferior to whites and therefore need condescending social programs and drug czars. GOP are racist too, but at least they are more upfront and less institutional about it.2. Did you see the video of the woman throwing a sign into Rand Paul’s car window prior to getting her ass beat? I am not defending the thugs, I’m just saying she too was engaged in violence, though comparably milder by a long shot. Might I also add, that every political movement has their violent pieces of shit. Anarchists have their crazed window breakers that don’t get that violence is a last resort. Republicrats and Democrans have their cops and military. While most people strive for peace, we do live in a violent society, and occasionally the bad eggs will crack. As for me, I’m a pacifist, but I have my guns just in case.3. Sarah Palin is a GOP operative within the Tea Party Express hijack group. Why should I give a shit about her? As far as I am concerned, she is also a victim of the public (government) education (indoctrination) system, just like our President and the majority of the American public.4. How is Rand Paul any different than the majority of the politicians (left and right) who support BP? Most of them do. It ain’t right, but they do. Also, since when is Rand Paul the only member of the tea party? I’m anti-corporate and proud, and I am part of the movement.5. Hearst was the reason the 17th Amendment was pushed through, so the media and big business could have more control over the Senate. Hearst was also the reason why Spanish American war was manufactured and, pot/hemp were made illegal. Hearst was not liberty’s friend.Sean Hannity might enjoy teabagging, but I just can’t put the sack in my mouth. I prefer the pink bits. You are also reading repeating Democratic Party talking points. How cute. And, what part did you not understand about Glenn Beck sympathizing with the tea party, while not being a member. I sympathize with the desire for gay men to be accepted in society. I like to show my support for gay men. Does that mean that I just grew a penis, while developing a lust for buttsex and Broadway musical in order for me to become a gay man? Of course not, that’s silly. Just because you support something, it doesn’t necessarily mean you are a member of it.Cheers,Vas

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    PS: In case you weren’t aware, the government is a tool of the corporate plutocracy.

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    Seems insane to me to want to carry the mantle of the Tea Party. You’ve lost the name, move on. It now represents Dick Armey’s vision for America. That might be wrong, but that’s the situation. It’s not defeat to recognize that the term Tea Party has been trashed beyond recognition. And given that many members of the Tea Party are pro-corporate, fanatically-religious racists, it strikes me as strange that you’d want to be associated with them whatsoever. I’d love to believe that the righteous indignation of the Tea Party could create a real movement for systemic change in the country, but when so many in the Tea Party are system-enablers, just saying, “But there are other people in the movement too” is virtually meaningless. If this is a Democracy, you lost the election.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    The Island of Boriken legally lost its name, and its native language to the Spaniards. Tainos lost their “existence” to the Spanish census of 1790, and the US government refused to give it back by perpetuating the Taino Extinction Myth. The US Gov’t and Hearst tried to force English and Statehood upon us. Guess what. We kept on fighting for the language, the culture and the reality. Neither English nor statehood, were ever successfully forced on upon us. Puerto Ricans still call their Island Boriken (or Borinquen) and themselves Boricuas. After centuries, we’re finally reclaiming our Taino language and our very existence. I believe it was Spanish Dictator Francisco Franco once said, “Whoever controls the language, also controls the culture.” With that knowledge, my cultural conscience and my adoption of the US as my second homeland, do you really think I am going to stop fighting against a bunch of GOP Corporatists over a name? My people fought for over 500 years to keep the name “Boriken” alive in its meaning. The tea party is not important to you, that much is obvious. It is to me, and until it ceases to be important, I will not stop fighting. Believe it or not, there are others like me, who are United States Americans, and still believe that we can take the movement back. I completely understand if you disagree, just as I disagree with you in your views of the tea party, and your assumption that we live in a democracy. Last time I checked we lived in a Constitutional Republic that has been undergoing a gradual transition into a Bourgeois Socialist State (as defined by Marx in the 3rd chapter of the Manifesto) enforced by a Military Complex, and will eventually turn into an outright Corporate Plutocracy if we don’t watch it.I’m no longer a progressive, but I don’t approve of the creep that the Government and Corporate Conglomerates are engaged in. Hence, my dogged fight to keep the movement alive in its original intention of keeping excessive government interference and its exploitation of the masses for corporate gain, in check.

  • Honu

    Vanessa, I like your attitude. I think (coming from a white boy’s perspective) Henry’s got your number overall on this though. You can go down with the ship if you like but the media’s already skinned that animal. Your analogy of comparing your heritage (thanks for the information about Tainos and Puerto Rico….I’m embarassed not to know its history) to your affiliation with the early tea party movement when it was ‘real’ is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. I get your core dedication to the movement but it feels more like someone who saw a great band when they were starting out and there were 10 people in the audience. You just knew they would be big and then when they did get big they weren’t really YOUR band anymore. It’s not the same as fighting for your cultural history and identity which are blood ties.

    I really do appreciate the ideas that you talk about and yes, both parties are corrupt, hypocritical and don’t serve a majority of the country. Maybe if the tea party movement had been around during a time when the republicans hadn’t completely shit the bed in a way I’ve never seen before with W in office, they would have left your group alone to develop organically. Instead, operatives on the right realized that the repubs had no credibility with the American public (and I’d argue they still don’t truly, their basic principals of the last 30 years vaporized under Bush II) so they decided to latch onto a group they could deflect criticism from and at the same time rebrand themselves while the American public cycles through their mistrust and anger.

    I don’t doubt that you are principled about what you believe. While I have criticisms coming out of my ass for the tea party movement, and Henry has expressed alot of them, probably my biggest criticism is that I find it curious and even more than that, suspicious that the rise and exposure of the tea party movement seems to come when a democrat is in office. I’m not arguing for the dems because I do believe at the end of the day, this country is now a plutocracy anyway and parties are just a mirage to give the impression that somehow we have choices. With all the talk of government control and taxes and deficit and whatever other issues I’ve heard about from the tea party that I don’t quite understand, where exactly were these righteously indignant people during W’s presidency? Every argument I hear from the tea party I can easily apply to Bush so to me, the tea party seems less about grassroots and honest outrage than some hysterical and racist response to a black man in the white house….at least the way the media has shown it.

    • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

      Honu,How is it different for me to stand up for the principles of the tea party movement in spite of media depictions, co-opting attempts and opposition infiltration, than it would be for a Democrat, Republican, anarchist, libertarian, et cetera to do the same? I might be fighting a futile battle (as in the case of Republican fighting for their party to return to the philosophies of tolerance and small government,) but then again it’s not the first time a political movement has been decidedly reclaimed from its “invaders” (as in the case of the Libertarian after Bob Barr’s takeover turned monumental Presidential failure.) If you believe if something, isn’t it worth fighting for, even if it makes you look quixotic? I see decent Democrats fighting tooth and nail to reclaim their political party every day, because they care about the principles they believe it should espouse. There are frightened sheep Democrats who vote for a party that repeatedly betrays them because they are afraid of a Republican-controlled future, that would probably end up looking almost identical in terms of corporatism and the military industrial complex. Corporatist work tirelessly to maintain their stronghold of the Democrat Party solely for the sake of power. Should these people be lumped into the same category? If not, how is the tea party different? Should these ideologies be discarded wholesale because of the loudest and most visible bad apple? Doesn’t media generally pursue the worst and most sensationalistic members of any political movement for the sake of ratings and to prop up who ever is in power?Now I understand your issue about my movement being invaded and manipulated by Republican apparatchik for the purpose. Believe me that’s a really huge concern for me as well. With that said, the tea party movement was the first to actually speak to me when I moved to the Mainland, and even with the intervention, it’s still the closest to what my principles are. That’s why I stick to it, in spite of criticisms and ridicule (as you probably saw in previous comments.) To me this is no different than the troubles the anarchist movement has endured. Routinely, mainstream Democrat groups will infiltrate and try to ingratiate the anarchist movement for the sake of trolling for a voter base. Anarchist, absolutely get savaged for being “violent,” “terrorists,” “nutjobs,” you name it, over a minority of yuppie larvae rich kids who use anarchism as an excuse to be destructive pricks. There are some anarchists who wear dumb close, others carry handmade signs that say stuff like, “Kill the Anglos,” or “Bush = Hitler.” I fail to see how the image problem the tea party has is any difference than the image problem the anarchist movement has. If you are interested, here is a blog entry I wrote, “How the media and ideological groups manipulate your beliefs,” that goes more into greater depth on the subject: http://vaslittlecrow.livejournal.com/1131957.htmlThere were opposition groups during the Bush era. It’s only natural that another opposition group rose during the Obama era, weirdly enough as a result of Bush’s bourgeois socialist policies, which most conservatives will freely admit. You might not even aware of this, but even reputed GOP firebrand commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn beck where trashing Bush and McCain for being Progressives and Socialists, even before Obama got elected. If you want citations or video for this, I’ll be happy to dig those resources up.That’s the nature of politics. I suppose the difference between us is that I don’t think we’re quite a plutocracy yet, (though we are on the verge of it,) and you do. I can respect that. Though I heartily disagree that criticizing a President who happens to have a certain pigmentation is automatically racist (especially when the same criticisms were leveled against the previous administration.) Likewise, just because a person is not a supporter of transnationalism (I oppose transnationalism based upon what Spain and the US did to my people and because I oppose slavery,) it doesn’t mean that I hate immigrations or people who are not the same color as I. I welcome Eastern Europeans as long as they came here legally. I understand these views are not popular or even welcomed, but here’s a couple more blogs, if you want to understand my mentality in reaching this opinions, I would be delighted to get into more detail. Otherwise, just assume that I am not pulling this out of my butt either. :)

  • Honu

    Vanessa, I like your attitude. I think (coming from a white boy’s perspective) Henry’s got your number overall on this though. You can go down with the ship if you like but the media’s already skinned that animal. Your analogy of comparing your heritage (thanks for the information about Tainos and Puerto Rico….I’m embarassed not to know its history) to your affiliation with the early tea party movement when it was ‘real’ is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. I get your core dedication to the movement but it feels more like someone who saw a great band when they were starting out and there were 10 people in the audience. You just knew they would be big and then when they did get big they weren’t really YOUR band anymore. It’s not the same as fighting for your cultural history and identity which are blood ties.

    I really do appreciate the ideas that you talk about and yes, both parties are corrupt, hypocritical and don’t serve a majority of the country. Maybe if the tea party movement had been around during a time when the republicans hadn’t completely shit the bed in a way I’ve never seen before with W in office, they would have left your group alone to develop organically. Instead, operatives on the right realized that the repubs had no credibility with the American public (and I’d argue they still don’t truly, their basic principals of the last 30 years vaporized under Bush II) so they decided to latch onto a group they could deflect criticism from and at the same time rebrand themselves while the American public cycles through their mistrust and anger.

    I don’t doubt that you are principled about what you believe. While I have criticisms coming out of my ass for the tea party movement, and Henry has expressed alot of them, probably my biggest criticism is that I find it curious and even more than that, suspicious that the rise and exposure of the tea party movement seems to come when a democrat is in office. I’m not arguing for the dems because I do believe at the end of the day, this country is now a plutocracy anyway and parties are just a mirage to give the impression that somehow we have choices. With all the talk of government control and taxes and deficit and whatever other issues I’ve heard about from the tea party that I don’t quite understand, where exactly were these righteously indignant people during W’s presidency? Every argument I hear from the tea party I can easily apply to Bush so to me, the tea party seems less about grassroots and honest outrage than some hysterical and racist response to a black man in the white house….at least the way the media has shown it.

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    I think “profitable tits” (whatever that means) just became me new favourite phrase…

    And, more substantially, Vanessa, I appreciate your informed and intelligent stance. But from my perspective here in Canada, the Tea Baggers just scare the fuck out of many of us…
    I live in Toronto, where we just elected a blow-hard high-school-bully-esque mayor on the back of the kind of anger I think is driving many to the “Tea Party.”
    As you do espouse more informed and thoughtful ideas than I hear from the “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” (with apologies to Paddy Chayefsky’s ghost), I think it behooves those such as yourself to get AWAY FAR FAR AWAY from the term ‘Tea Party.” The public image of a Tea Bagger is just bad optics.

  • Laura W

    I agree with the others Vanessa. I admire and would probably agree with most of your values and beliefs, but to stand by a party that has no chance in reality of ever becoming more than a new Republican Party, seems quite foolish. You’re a very intelligent young woman and your just playing into their hands by saying you can take the Tea Party back. The Repub’s have changed their identity before; they were once called the Whigs. If the tea party’s grass roots were honorable at one time, they aren’t now and you won’t be able to take that back. It’s been sodomized and murdered by the GOP and there’s no saving it hun. I admire your hope, but I think it’s misdirected. You say there are more like you. How many? Enough to actually have the sense to drop that dead corpse of a “party” that you’ve been kicking around and start a new, real movement? The Tea Party isn’t for real change anymore. You’re now outnumbered by GOP, pawns, and idiots. If the Tea Party were to become recognized you would have someone like Rand Paul to vote for. Then what will you and your grassroots tea party members do? Write someone else in? Diverge votes away from the lesser of the evil candidates so that the greatest of the evil will win? I don’t have the answers, but dropping the Tea Party and starting an underground movement would be a good idea. You’ll never have enough support to change things as long as you keep yourself affiliated with what is mostly clowns.

    • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

      Laura,

      “If the Tea Party seems schizo—what with all of the “Get Government Out of My Medicare” business—that’s because it’s a house divided. Or at least a lean-to partitioned by a sheet strung on a clothesline.” – Katherine Mangu-Ward

      I am not saying that I can take the tea party back. As I said before, this might be a quixotic fight. However, what I can do, is inform you about how this movement is not as homogeneous, intolerant or as foolish as it is depicted. When people sit back quietly and let the worst elements of their group take over the discussion, there is no hope. Why would I stand by a party that you feel has no chance in reality than becoming nothing more than a new Republican Party? Why did the Libertarian Party membership bitchslap Bob Barr when the party had no chance in reality than becoming a new Republican party. Why would a person vote Green Party if it has no chance of becoming nothing more than a spoiler for the Republican party? Why would a person vote at all, if the electoral system is nothing more than a sham? This is purely a matter of perception.

      I think you are in error about the Whig party — yes it was an offshoot, but the Republican party never completely went away and it eventually came back with a vengeance. I believe it was preceded by Democratic-Republican party (which split in two because of a schism,) the Democratic Party, the Anti-Jacksonian National Republican Party and the Anti-Masonic party. That was less of a rebranding effort (which within that historical context was not even a thought) and more of a massive split. Splits are not uncommon in politics or religion. In some ways I see a split within the libertarian, anarco-capitalist, small c conservative elements of the tea party, and the attempted invasion by the GOP. This type of in-fighting not unusual, and it is almost always messy. Once the dust settles, I may consider leaving the tea party, but for now the battle for control is still waging. It see it as my duty, to protect what I believe in, whether others think it foolish or irrational.

      Also, considering that close to half of tea party membership is libertarian, (I am somewhere in between libertarian and small c,) I’d say there are more than enough like me to make a difference. Unlike John Kerry back in the last Bush election, l believe that being outnumbered by 2% hardly counts as a margin of error, let alone a reason concede to defeat.

      Here’s some documentation to support my claims:
      http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/libertarians-independents-and-tea-parties/
      http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/28/half-of-tea-partiers-are-liber

      Also who the hell says I HAVE to vote a straight line ticket in the general election (as opposed to primaries,) I vote my conscience. Minnesota has no such laws. So, If I don’t like a tea party candidate, I vote for a candidate that I prefer. It’s that easy. I wrote in a vote for the Boston Tea Party in the last Presidential cycle. Some states have more than one “tea party backed candidate” (including some that are Democrats.) It’s pretty ridiculous to assume that preference for a political ideology means that you have to be chained down by it.

      “You’ll never have enough support to change things as long as you keep yourself affiliated with what is mostly clowns.”

      So what political ideology doesn’t have a single clown, violent person, or idiot. Could you please educate me? I don’t believe there is such a thing, so I work with what seems best for me. Perhaps I’m wrong. Show me if I am. Also, it is my understanding that the GOP and the Democratic Party are still in control — seems like they’re doing fine with all the clowns in their midst.

  • Laura W

    I agree with the others Vanessa. I admire and would probably agree with most of your values and beliefs, but to stand by a party that has no chance in reality of ever becoming more than a new Republican Party, seems quite foolish. You’re a very intelligent young woman and your just playing into their hands by saying you can take the Tea Party back. The Repub’s have changed their identity before; they were once called the Whigs. If the tea party’s grass roots were honorable at one time, they aren’t now and you won’t be able to take that back. It’s been sodomized and murdered by the GOP and there’s no saving it hun. I admire your hope, but I think it’s misdirected. You say there are more like you. How many? Enough to actually have the sense to drop that dead corpse of a “party” that you’ve been kicking around and start a new, real movement? The Tea Party isn’t for real change anymore. You’re now outnumbered by GOP, pawns, and idiots. If the Tea Party were to become recognized you would have someone like Rand Paul to vote for. Then what will you and your grassroots tea party members do? Write someone else in? Diverge votes away from the lesser of the evil candidates so that the greatest of the evil will win? I don’t have the answers, but dropping the Tea Party and starting an underground movement would be a good idea. You’ll never have enough support to change things as long as you keep yourself affiliated with what is mostly clowns.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Honu,How is it different for me to stand up for the principles of the tea party movement in spite of media depictions, co-opting attempts and opposition infiltration, than it would be for a Democrat, Republican, anarchist, libertarian, et cetera to do the same? I might be fighting a futile battle (as in the case of Republican fighting for their party to return to the philosophies of tolerance and small government,) but then again it’s not the first time a political movement has been decidedly reclaimed from its “invaders” (as in the case of the Libertarian after Bob Barr’s takeover turned monumental Presidential failure.) If you believe if something, isn’t it worth fighting for, even if it makes you look quixotic? I see decent Democrats fighting tooth and nail to reclaim their political party every day, because they care about the principles they believe it should espouse. There are frightened sheep Democrats who vote for a party that repeatedly betrays them because they are afraid of a Republican-controlled future, that would probably end up looking almost identical in terms of corporatism and the military industrial complex. Corporatist work tirelessly to maintain their stronghold of the Democrat Party solely for the sake of power. Should these people be lumped into the same category? If not, how is the tea party different? Should these ideologies be discarded wholesale because of the loudest and most visible bad apple? Doesn’t media generally pursue the worst and most sensationalistic members of any political movement for the sake of ratings and to prop up who ever is in power?Now I understand your issue about my movement being invaded and manipulated by Republican apparatchik for the purpose. Believe me that’s a really huge concern for me as well. With that said, the tea party movement was the first to actually speak to me when I moved to the Mainland, and even with the intervention, it’s still the closest to what my principles are. That’s why I stick to it, in spite of criticisms and ridicule (as you probably saw in previous comments.) To me this is no different than the troubles the anarchist movement has endured. Routinely, mainstream Democrat groups will infiltrate and try to ingratiate the anarchist movement for the sake of trolling for a voter base. Anarchist, absolutely get savaged for being “violent,” “terrorists,” “nutjobs,” you name it, over a minority of yuppie larvae rich kids who use anarchism as an excuse to be destructive pricks. There are some anarchists who wear dumb close, others carry handmade signs that say stuff like, “Kill the Anglos,” or “Bush = Hitler.” I fail to see how the image problem the tea party has is any difference than the image problem the anarchist movement has. If you are interested, here is a blog entry I wrote, “How the media and ideological groups manipulate your beliefs,” that goes more into greater depth on the subject: http://vaslittlecrow.livejournal.com/1131957.htmlThere were opposition groups during the Bush era. It’s only natural that another opposition group rose during the Obama era, weirdly enough as a result of Bush’s bourgeois socialist policies, which most conservatives will freely admit. You might not even aware of this, but even reputed GOP firebrand commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn beck where trashing Bush and McCain for being Progressives and Socialists, even before Obama got elected. If you want citations or video for this, I’ll be happy to dig those resources up.That’s the nature of politics. I suppose the difference between us is that I don’t think we’re quite a plutocracy yet, (though we are on the verge of it,) and you do. I can respect that. Though I heartily disagree that criticizing a President who happens to have a certain pigmentation is automatically racist (especially when the same criticisms were leveled against the previous administration.) Likewise, just because a person is not a supporter of transnationalism (I oppose transnationalism based upon what Spain and the US did to my people and because I oppose slavery,) it doesn’t mean that I hate immigrations or people who are not the same color as I. I welcome Eastern Europeans as long as they came here legally. I understand these views are not popular or even welcomed, but here’s a couple more blogs, if you want to understand my mentality in reaching this opinions, I would be delighted to get into more detail. Otherwise, just assume that I am not pulling this out of my butt either. :)

  • Veggie

    I’m not a Democrat or a repub, and I’m about as far from a corporatist as you can get.

    The teabaggers are either crazy, evil, or very very ignorant.

    • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

      I’m sorry people who suck testicles make you uncomfortable.

      A lot of people also think the same of vegetarians, but it doesn’t necessarily make it true.

  • Veggie

    I’m not a Democrat or a repub, and I’m about as far from a corporatist as you can get.

    The teabaggers are either crazy, evil, or very very ignorant.

  • jhalpin666

    Henry, the mainstream media left and right WANTS you to think that all groups intent on eliminating the gross negligence and rampant corruption that plagues the current two parties in the U.S. government is right wing, but this is not the case.

    Think of the “Tea Party Phenomenon” is as three things 1. THE Tea Party which is a right-wing nuthouse, bent on a bizarre agenda they cannot fully articulate; the Tea Partiers, which is an amalgam of differing interests uniting in the venerable but incoherent goal of eliminating the government, and lastly in my mind, the real threat to the status quo which are community-based, grass roots political movements that exist but are suffocating due to the smear tactics of mass media.

    In lieu of being able to complete my own research, I’ll cede the discussion to Vanesa who clearly has more experience on the ground than I.

    Thanks again for taking time out to participate in the discussion.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Laura,

    “If the Tea Party seems schizo—what with all of the “Get Government Out of My Medicare” business—that’s because it’s a house divided. Or at least a lean-to partitioned by a sheet strung on a clothesline.” – Katherine Mangu-Ward

    I am not saying that I can take the tea party back. As I said before, this might be a quixotic fight. However, what I can do, is inform you about how this movement is not as homogeneous, intolerant or as foolish as it is depicted. When people sit back quietly and let the worst elements of their group take over the discussion, there is no hope. Why would I stand by a party that you feel has no chance in reality than becoming nothing more than a new Republican Party? Why did the Libertarian Party membership bitchslap Bob Barr when the party had no chance in reality than becoming a new Republican party. Why would a person vote Green Party if it has no chance of becoming nothing more than a spoiler for the Republican party? Why would a person vote at all, if the electoral system is nothing more than a sham? This is purely a matter of perception.

    I think you are in error about the Whig party — yes it was an offshoot, but the Republican party never completely went away and it eventually came back with a vengeance. I believe it was preceded by Democratic-Republican party (which split in two because of a schism,) the Democratic Party, the Anti-Jacksonian National Republican Party and the Anti-Masonic party. That was less of a rebranding effort (which within that historical context was not even a thought) and more of a massive split. Splits are not uncommon in politics or religion. In some ways I see a split within the libertarian, anarco-capitalist, small c conservative elements of the tea party, and the attempted invasion by the GOP. This type of in-fighting not unusual, and it is almost always messy. Once the dust settles, I may consider leaving the tea party, but for now the battle for control is still waging. It see it as my duty, to protect what I believe in, whether others think it foolish or irrational.

    Also, considering that close to half of tea party membership is libertarian, (I am somewhere in between libertarian and small c,) I’d say there are more than enough like me to make a difference. Unlike John Kerry back in the last Bush election, l believe that being outnumbered by 2% hardly counts as a margin of error, let alone a reason concede to defeat.

    Here’s some documentation to support my claims:
    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/libertarians-independents-and-tea-parties/
    http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/28/half-of-tea-partiers-are-liber

    Also who the hell says I HAVE to vote a straight line ticket in the general election (as opposed to primaries,) I vote my conscience. Minnesota has no such laws. So, If I don’t like a tea party candidate, I vote for a candidate that I prefer. It’s that easy. I wrote in a vote for the Boston Tea Party in the last Presidential cycle. Some states have more than one “tea party backed candidate” (including some that are Democrats.) It’s pretty ridiculous to assume that preference for a political ideology means that you have to be chained down by it.

    “You’ll never have enough support to change things as long as you keep yourself affiliated with what is mostly clowns.”

    So what political ideology doesn’t have a single clown, violent person, or idiot. Could you please educate me? I don’t believe there is such a thing, so I work with what seems best for me. Perhaps I’m wrong. Show me if I am. Also, it is my understanding that the GOP and the Democratic Party are still in control — seems like they’re doing fine with all the clowns in their midst.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Bud,Tea baggers scare the fuck out of you? Honey, there is nothing wrong with sucking testicles. ;)You don’t hear these thoughtful ideas coming from tea party people in the media, for the same reason most people assume that all gays in pride parades wear jewel-encrusted thongs and anarchist are lunatic bombthrowers who kill babies and make love to seals. Manipulation by the powers that be.Lots of tea party people are calm and intelligent (when not provoked.) You don’t hear them because:1) They are embarrassed to be associated with the media stereotype.2) They just don’t make an public issue of their politics.3) They are politically unsophisticated or lack proper education.4) They’re white and they are afraid of being called “racist” on account of expressing a dissenting opinion about the Federal government — which so happens to be run by a man of mixed ethnicity.5) Are old and not web savvy.I have no such encumbrances.Thanks for your insights, your experiences, and for enjoying my tits.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Bud,Tea baggers scare the fuck out of you? Honey, there is nothing wrong with sucking testicles. ;)You don’t hear these thoughtful ideas coming from tea party people in the media, for the same reason most people assume that all gays in pride parades wear jewel-encrusted thongs and anarchist are lunatic bombthrowers who kill babies and make love to seals. Manipulation by the powers that be.Lots of tea party people are calm and intelligent (when not provoked.) You don’t hear them because:1) They are embarrassed to be associated with the media stereotype.2) They just don’t make an public issue of their politics.3) They are politically unsophisticated or lack proper education.4) They’re white and they are afraid of being called “racist” on account of expressing a dissenting opinion about the Federal government — which so happens to be run by a man of mixed ethnicity.5) Are old and not web savvy.I have no such encumbrances.Thanks for your insights, your experiences, and for enjoying my tits.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    I’m sorry people who suck testicles make you uncomfortable.

    A lot of people also think the same of vegetarians, but it doesn’t necessarily make it true.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    I’m sorry people who suck testicles make you uncomfortable.

    A lot of people also think the same of vegetarians, but it doesn’t necessarily make it true.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    jhalpin666,

    Thank you so much for publishing this article in Disinfo, and for giving people the opportunity to express their opinions. It really is heartening to know that someone actually understands what the tea party movement is up against, and that the movement is more diverse than the media depicts it to be.

    Gratefully,
    Vas

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    jhalpin666,

    Thank you so much for publishing this article in Disinfo, and for giving people the opportunity to express their opinions. It really is heartening to know that someone actually understands what the tea party movement is up against, and that the movement is more diverse than the media depicts it to be.

    Gratefully,
    Vas

  • Liam_McGonagle

    How’s about you put your anti-government commitment to the test? Nothing big, just a single day without you accepting any government assistance at all. Just one day. Let’s see what you’d have to do:

    1. Don’t use any paved roads to go anywhere–funded by government spending. Bad, bad, bad.

    2. Don’t use any utilities–no water, no electricity, no gas. Infrastructure provided through government backed bonds, if not directly established by a government agency in and of itself.

    3. Put a big sign on your house saying “Free Stuff–Take What You Like, Free of Charge”. Cause policing services are from dat damn gubmint, you are basically an open target for robbery and assault.

    4. Work a 20 hour day for less than minimum wage. No protection under labor laws for you! ‘Come on, it’s only one day! Before the labor laws got in place, people did that shit 7 days a week every week til the day they died.

    5. Feel free to ingest as much lead and asbestos as you please–no environmental protection laws for you! You know how they get in the way of the entrepreneurial free market capitalism.

    6. If you should happen to have a disagreement with any company you contract with, just laugh off your losses. No legal recourse for you! Courts are paid for by that tyrannical government of yours!

    7. If you happen to live at any point west of the Mississippi river, evacuate estward immediately. The Louisiana Purchase was funded by filthy federal government dollars. None of that for you!

    8. If you happen to be anything other than a rich, white christian male immediately surrender all your civil rights. No government, no 19th Amendment, no 14th Amendment, hell, no United States–the fight against the Nazis, Fascists and Tojo and his gang was funded with nasty tax-based governement. To the labor camp for you!

    So how you liking that? Destroying government still seem like a really good idea? Or are you gonna tell me that with government institutions gone away we’re finally gonna see the arrival of the Age of Aquarius, and everything’s gonna be easy, free and grooovy?

    I can’t wait for you to post your “Day Without Government” webcam on the internet. Wait, that won’t work either–the internet was created as a government project.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    How’s about you put your anti-government commitment to the test? Nothing big, just a single day without you accepting any government assistance at all. Just one day. Let’s see what you’d have to do:

    1. Don’t use any paved roads to go anywhere–funded by government spending. Bad, bad, bad.

    2. Don’t use any utilities–no water, no electricity, no gas. Infrastructure provided through government backed bonds, if not directly established by a government agency in and of itself.

    3. Put a big sign on your house saying “Free Stuff–Take What You Like, Free of Charge”. Cause policing services are from dat damn gubmint, you are basically an open target for robbery and assault.

    4. Work a 20 hour day for less than minimum wage. No protection under labor laws for you! ‘Come on, it’s only one day! Before the labor laws got in place, people did that shit 7 days a week every week til the day they died.

    5. Feel free to ingest as much lead and asbestos as you please–no environmental protection laws for you! You know how they get in the way of the entrepreneurial free market capitalism.

    6. If you should happen to have a disagreement with any company you contract with, just laugh off your losses. No legal recourse for you! Courts are paid for by that tyrannical government of yours!

    7. If you happen to live at any point west of the Mississippi river, evacuate estward immediately. The Louisiana Purchase was funded by filthy federal government dollars. None of that for you!

    8. If you happen to be anything other than a rich, white christian male immediately surrender all your civil rights. No government, no 19th Amendment, no 14th Amendment, hell, no United States–the fight against the Nazis, Fascists and Tojo and his gang was funded with nasty tax-based governement. To the labor camp for you!

    So how you liking that? Destroying government still seem like a really good idea? Or are you gonna tell me that with government institutions gone away we’re finally gonna see the arrival of the Age of Aquarius, and everything’s gonna be easy, free and grooovy?

    I can’t wait for you to post your “Day Without Government” webcam on the internet. Wait, that won’t work either–the internet was created as a government project.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Is there a real thought to be found anywhere in that shambles you posted?

    You were part of a group that was not named the tea party, yet you resent others “hijacking” the tea party name. WTF?

    So Obama talking about waving statutory damages caps was giving BP a sweetheart deal? Get real.

    Love the way you through your man Rand under the bus. The tea party continuously spouts out these horrible, horrible offensively stupid ideas, and the Tea Bagger’s only response is to try to pass them off as “bad apples” with no real significance for the overall party. Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, Joe Miller, Christine O’Donnell, Paladino, on and on and on and on . . . Come one, we’re not THAT fuckin’ gullible!

    Your historical analysis vis-a-vis the 17th Amendment is worse than worthless–it’s truely horrible. That amendment provides for popular election of the U.S. Senate, instead of appointment by plutocractic state government elites. You are arguing AGAINST DEMOCRACY. Point blank. That simple.

    And what the hell is the operative difference between “being a member of the Tea Party” and “being in sympathy with the Tea Party”? Is the Tea Party a formal body with a constitution and procedurally installed set of officers? Is there an official register of Tea Party members on file somewhere? No. None at all. Ergo there is absolutely no difference between “being a member of the Tea Party” and “being in sympathy with the Tea Party”; if you like their ideas, you are a Tea Partier.

    Let’s face it, the real legacy of the tea party is going to be their ignorance and hypocrisy. I’m sick and tired of all the Tea Party backtracking, the CONSTANT backtracking. Where’s the accountability? Where’s the integrity?

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    first: I just find “tea baggers” more amusing to say than “tea partiers,” is all…

    I think your 1) point is exactly what I was getting at when urging the sane people who might identify as “tea partiers” should distance themselves from the mainstream image of “tea partiers.” A new designation is in order…the flipside of that is “who gets to decide?” though, so…I haven’t a clue what to suggest to get yourselves some honest attention.

    And finally, could you please explain the phrase “profitable tits”? Are you nursing, izzat it? :)

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    first: I just find “tea baggers” more amusing to say than “tea partiers,” is all…

    I think your 1) point is exactly what I was getting at when urging the sane people who might identify as “tea partiers” should distance themselves from the mainstream image of “tea partiers.” A new designation is in order…the flipside of that is “who gets to decide?” though, so…I haven’t a clue what to suggest to get yourselves some honest attention.

    And finally, could you please explain the phrase “profitable tits”? Are you nursing, izzat it? :)

  • Other Mr T

    MO TUCKER FOR PRESIDENT : 2012 !!!

  • Other Mr T

    MO TUCKER FOR PRESIDENT : 2012 !!!

  • Other Mr T

    MO TUCKER FOR PRESIDENT : 2012 !!!

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    “How’s about you put your anti-government commitment to the test? Nothing big, just a single day without you accepting any government assistance at all. Just one day.”

    Only one day… Pfff… Amateur.

    1. I live in the country. If I want to, I can go for days without paved roads. In fact, this winter, I probably will live off my food storage for a month or two, any maybe not even drive at all. Being snowed in rural Minnesota can be fun.

    2. My first house had no running water or toilets. It required a five minute walk to get hydrated, and a shovel for shit. his one has a private well. I have a phobia of gas heating, so I don’t use it. We have a wood burning stove as our main source of heat, and for cooking. When we have blackouts, sometimes for days, there is no electricity. In fact, the only reason why we even bothered with the grid is because the government forced us to so in order to have telecommunications, before cell phones became affordable. The county and state governments also told us that we were not allowed to have a gray water system. You can read the gory details here: http://vaslittlecrow.livejournal.com/669667.html

    3. I have weapons to keep criminals at bay. Until recently (because for years the city of Rice used to have only one cop, the county limited staff, and I live in a nearby township,) people were advice to shoot criminals and call afterward since police response times would probably exceed hours. Rice and the county now have enough cops, so now I don’t need to point shotguns at intruders anymore, but I would if I had to do so again.

    4. I worked at a daycare in my teens where I got paid less than minimum wage, I got good experience for teaching and, my boss was a total doll. I quit that job and made the mistake of getting a “real” job cutting roses for more than minimum wages, alongside undocumented workers, in the unsafest working conditions, with banned pesticides, and a boss who sexually harassed me — and no one gave shit. I worked regular jobs, and hated most of them. I used to be hooker who traded for food, when my ex-husband left me and I was too poor for welfare (yes there is such a thing.) I pulled myself out of poverty and whoring by selling scrounged garbage turned to art on consignment. Now, I work as an independent contractor and am on the verge of retirement at age 37. Do you think I give a shit about labor laws for myself? I think they’re good, but not needed.

    5. I drink alcohol, I used to smoke, I used to live in an urban environment, I’ve done most every drug known to man. I’ve put chemicals much worse into my body than the ones you’ve described. Then, I got sick of the chemicals and the bullshit, and moved to the country in a township that’s clean and had a lot less regulation that any filthy city I’ve ever lived in.

    6. I didn’t say I was a full libertarian or anarchist, but for shits and giggles, I’ll answer this one. I had a lot less problems with people attempting to rip me off when I participated in the barter economy (whored, cooked for people, made art, dumpster dove, sorted beads, and made herbal medicines for a living,) than I do now that I’m legit. Even in this day, because I live in the middle of nowhere, I forage and barter with my neighbor if I can’t get to modernity for any reason. If someone screwed over me in the underground economy, civilized conversation, or a swift punch to the face seemed to solve most issues.

    7. You mean the Louisiana Purchase that took place when the United States bought stolen property (that wasn’t even technically property) from France and Spain? I can always move back to Puerto Rico, y’know, since it was also property stolen by the US. Or, the rightful owners of the land can take it back and let me live here. YAY GOVERNMENT!

    8. Amerind society existed before the United States or the Constitution. Many tribes were egalitarian and had completely different views on gender (though not all.) Some, like the Hopi, didn’t have any sort of discernible government and they got along fine. Amerinds were also engaging in wars against invaders long since before the whites came. In fact, I seem to recall something about how the Algonquin completely annihilated their Viking invaders. I like the Constitution for the most part because it provides a compass for the nation. There are parts I am happy that they were amended, parts that I think should never change and, other parts that should be nuked, but it’s not entirely necessary.

    I am not advocating for the destruction of government, I am advocating for its reduction. Governments come and go, but the human spirit endures in spite of it. If our government goes, life would be brutal, difficult, and it would require a lot of self-discipline and community collaboration. But then again, that’s the animal kingdom for you, and last time I checked, we are still part of it.

    I don’t use web cams, that’s not my style. If didn’t have the Internet to communicate my months and weeks without government, I would probably do what I did in the nineties: Use handwriting, silk screen copier, or a, printing press. Failing that, face to face communication.

    You are so cute Liam!

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    “How’s about you put your anti-government commitment to the test? Nothing big, just a single day without you accepting any government assistance at all. Just one day.”

    Only one day… Pfff… Amateur.

    1. I live in the country. If I want to, I can go for days without paved roads. In fact, this winter, I probably will live off my food storage for a month or two, any maybe not even drive at all. Being snowed in rural Minnesota can be fun.

    2. My first house had no running water or toilets. It required a five minute walk to get hydrated, and a shovel for shit. his one has a private well. I have a phobia of gas heating, so I don’t use it. We have a wood burning stove as our main source of heat, and for cooking. When we have blackouts, sometimes for days, there is no electricity. In fact, the only reason why we even bothered with the grid is because the government forced us to so in order to have telecommunications, before cell phones became affordable. The county and state governments also told us that we were not allowed to have a gray water system. You can read the gory details here: http://vaslittlecrow.livejournal.com/669667.html

    3. I have weapons to keep criminals at bay. Until recently (because for years the city of Rice used to have only one cop, the county limited staff, and I live in a nearby township,) people were advice to shoot criminals and call afterward since police response times would probably exceed hours. Rice and the county now have enough cops, so now I don’t need to point shotguns at intruders anymore, but I would if I had to do so again.

    4. I worked at a daycare in my teens where I got paid less than minimum wage, I got good experience for teaching and, my boss was a total doll. I quit that job and made the mistake of getting a “real” job cutting roses for more than minimum wages, alongside undocumented workers, in the unsafest working conditions, with banned pesticides, and a boss who sexually harassed me — and no one gave shit. I worked regular jobs, and hated most of them. I used to be hooker who traded for food, when my ex-husband left me and I was too poor for welfare (yes there is such a thing.) I pulled myself out of poverty and whoring by selling scrounged garbage turned to art on consignment. Now, I work as an independent contractor and am on the verge of retirement at age 37. Do you think I give a shit about labor laws for myself? I think they’re good, but not needed.

    5. I drink alcohol, I used to smoke, I used to live in an urban environment, I’ve done most every drug known to man. I’ve put chemicals much worse into my body than the ones you’ve described. Then, I got sick of the chemicals and the bullshit, and moved to the country in a township that’s clean and had a lot less regulation that any filthy city I’ve ever lived in.

    6. I didn’t say I was a full libertarian or anarchist, but for shits and giggles, I’ll answer this one. I had a lot less problems with people attempting to rip me off when I participated in the barter economy (whored, cooked for people, made art, dumpster dove, sorted beads, and made herbal medicines for a living,) than I do now that I’m legit. Even in this day, because I live in the middle of nowhere, I forage and barter with my neighbor if I can’t get to modernity for any reason. If someone screwed over me in the underground economy, civilized conversation, or a swift punch to the face seemed to solve most issues.

    7. You mean the Louisiana Purchase that took place when the United States bought stolen property (that wasn’t even technically property) from France and Spain? I can always move back to Puerto Rico, y’know, since it was also property stolen by the US. Or, the rightful owners of the land can take it back and let me live here. YAY GOVERNMENT!

    8. Amerind society existed before the United States or the Constitution. Many tribes were egalitarian and had completely different views on gender (though not all.) Some, like the Hopi, didn’t have any sort of discernible government and they got along fine. Amerinds were also engaging in wars against invaders long since before the whites came. In fact, I seem to recall something about how the Algonquin completely annihilated their Viking invaders. I like the Constitution for the most part because it provides a compass for the nation. There are parts I am happy that they were amended, parts that I think should never change and, other parts that should be nuked, but it’s not entirely necessary.

    I am not advocating for the destruction of government, I am advocating for its reduction. Governments come and go, but the human spirit endures in spite of it. If our government goes, life would be brutal, difficult, and it would require a lot of self-discipline and community collaboration. But then again, that’s the animal kingdom for you, and last time I checked, we are still part of it.

    I don’t use web cams, that’s not my style. If didn’t have the Internet to communicate my months and weeks without government, I would probably do what I did in the nineties: Use handwriting, silk screen copier, or a, printing press. Failing that, face to face communication.

    You are so cute Liam!

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    first: I figured. But just be aware that you walked into that one.

    I do agree that we might need a new name, but first, we gotta wait for the dust to settle. The pissing contest is still happening. As for leadership, there is no centralized leadership, which is what makes it fun. ;-)

    last: My profitable tits: http://vaslittlecrow.com/model-portfolio/

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    first: I figured. But just be aware that you walked into that one.

    I do agree that we might need a new name, but first, we gotta wait for the dust to settle. The pissing contest is still happening. As for leadership, there is no centralized leadership, which is what makes it fun. ;-)

    last: My profitable tits: http://vaslittlecrow.com/model-portfolio/

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    “I live in the country. If I want to, I can go for days without paved roads.”

    Pretty much stopped there. Good for you, but it’s totally irrelevant. If you notice, there’s 300 million people in this country and many millions of people live in the city. A barter economy is a nice dream, but when you’ve got the likes of BP, non-regulation of industry is going to fuck us up a lot further.

    Your advocacy of government reduction is that life becomes more “brutal, difficult, and it would require a lot of self-discipline and community collaboration.” A nice utopian fantasy, but it would also likely lead to millions of people dying. And you began this by calling out Democrats for being founded by a eugenicist who advocated ethnic cleansing. In true Tea Party fashion, this is exactly what you’re advocating.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Many advanced urban-based civilizations got along just fine without paved roads, or for that matter wheeled vehicles (the coastal Inca immediately come to mind.) Also, in case you haven’t heard many cities are reverting back to crushed asphalt or rock, because pavement is environmentally and financially unsustainable (especially with the crap grade of cement they use in the US.) Pavement is a nice, yet environmentally insane convenience, but it is not a necessity. Also BP would not even be a blip in the economy, if the government didn’t heavily subsidize it, in addition to the manufacture of expensive products that require oil, or the paved roadways necessary to make it easier for those products to operate.Who says we can’t have a barter economy? The Federal Reserve? The World Bank? You do realize that’s how a lot of the super rich get around sales taxes, rights? Goodie bags, pressies, that’s what they call it. It’s barter. So why is what’s good for the crazy wealthy and those who opt out of the economy, not good for the rest of us. Don’t get me wrong, I like the convenience of capitalism, but it’s not a need.How is me having to punch a person for screwing me over a transaction, or me having to shoot a criminal because there are no cops a fantasy utopia? I fucking lived that shit. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t people dying by the millions (whether by embargoes, food regulation, wars, etc.) already because of government policies? Might I also ask what specific ethnic group I am calling to be exterminated? Have I at any time called for the extermination of the weak, the stupid or the “useless”? Please quote specific examples of where I might have said this. Having faith in people’s abilities to be self-sufficient when the need strikes (as evidenced during the great Depression) is not the same thing as genocide or social Darwinism.Also since you missed my third-to-last paragraph to my previous response, let me repeat it, in true tea party fashion: “I am not advocating for the destruction of government, I am advocating for its reduction. Governments come and go, but the human spirit endures in spite of it..”

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Many advanced urban-based civilizations got along just fine without paved roads, or for that matter wheeled vehicles (the coastal Inca immediately come to mind.) Also, in case you haven’t heard many cities are reverting back to crushed asphalt or rock, because pavement is environmentally and financially unsustainable (especially with the crap grade of cement they use in the US.) Pavement is a nice, yet environmentally insane convenience, but it is not a necessity. Also BP would not even be a blip in the economy, if the government didn’t heavily subsidize it, in addition to the manufacture of expensive products that require oil, or the paved roadways necessary to make it easier for those products to operate.Who says we can’t have a barter economy? The Federal Reserve? The World Bank? You do realize that’s how a lot of the super rich get around sales taxes, rights? Goodie bags, pressies, that’s what they call it. It’s barter. So why is what’s good for the crazy wealthy and those who opt out of the economy, not good for the rest of us. Don’t get me wrong, I like the convenience of capitalism, but it’s not a need.How is me having to punch a person for screwing me over a transaction, or me having to shoot a criminal because there are no cops a fantasy utopia? I fucking lived that shit. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t people dying by the millions (whether by embargoes, food regulation, wars, etc.) already because of government policies? Might I also ask what specific ethnic group I am calling to be exterminated? Have I at any time called for the extermination of the weak, the stupid or the “useless”? Please quote specific examples of where I might have said this. Having faith in people’s abilities to be self-sufficient when the need strikes (as evidenced during the great Depression) is not the same thing as genocide or social Darwinism.Also since you missed my third-to-last paragraph to my previous response, let me repeat it, in true tea party fashion: “I am not advocating for the destruction of government, I am advocating for its reduction. Governments come and go, but the human spirit endures in spite of it..”

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    I’m in full agreement that we need a total reworking of our financial system. I just think in the interim there would be total havoc. And the poor would likely be most affected – who are a large percentage minority. So you obviously don’t call for genocide directly, but the only way for this kind of massive reconstruction is via some kind of upheaval.

  • http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com Henry Baum

    I’m in full agreement that we need a total reworking of our financial system. I just think in the interim there would be total havoc. And the poor would likely be most affected – who are a large percentage minority. So you obviously don’t call for genocide directly, but the only way for this kind of massive reconstruction is via some kind of upheaval.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Liam,

    Why do you resort to name calling when I disassemble your arguments (talking points) with examples and supporting evidence? You do realize that’s why I was ruder to you than most other commenters, right? I hate being a complete ass to people, but you seem to be working overtime to get my goat, which I find adorable. At least Henry comes up with original ideas and thoughtfully takes me to task on specific points. You are just intellectually lazy and can’t deal with the fact that what you perceive as a tea party robot is running circles around you in a debate. I’m very sorry to say that, but that’s how you are making me feel.

    Paul Rand is not my man. He is running as a representative in Kentucky. I live in Minnesota. I don’t have any vested interest in him winning or losing that election, regardless of whether he is related to Ron Paul or not. How can I throw a politician under a bus, when he has no relevance to my political life whatsoever? Ditto for Sarah Palin, Joe Miller, Christine O’Donnell, Paladino, on and on and on and on… I am not voting for them, and I cannot vote for them because they are neither in my state, nor running for President at this time. Why give myself ulcers over them, like you do? By the way, my man’s name is Loki — he’s my husband.

    I am a member of the tea party, but the tea party is not a single entity. Go back and read jhalpin666′s comments on the three major types of tea party groups, so I don’t have to do the cutandpasta.

    We’ll agree to disagree on the 17th Amendment. I think it’s a boon to legalized bribery, media manipulation and pressure groups designed to subvert Democracy. You think it’s a boon to Democracy. My arguments failed to convince you, and you haven’t offered any evidence to support it aside from, “it’s direct democracy so it’s must be better!” I don’t feel that you appreciate how complex the issue is. I am gathering from your statements that you feel like I fail to understand how simple the issue is. This is obviously a matter of personal taste. Can you agree on that?

    What the hell is the operative between being an asshole, and being friends with an asshole? You can be the member of something without formal organization. Have you never been part of an informal club, or an international group without any sort of rules? I have. They can be fun, and you can learn a lot. Try it sometime. If you are tired of the backtracking and inconsistency, you must really hate humans.

    “Where’s the accountability? Where’s the integrity? ”

    Accountability and integrity aren’t things you find from without, they are traits that one must develop from within. If that weren’t the case, everyone would be subservient and of the same mind. Humans have free will. Regardless of how hallowed institutions might seem to be, or how strict they are in enforcing their rules, people will be capable of good, evil, ambiguous and just plain weird.

    What do you do for a living? Who butters your bread? I am fascinated by how you seem to find me to be threatening. I want to know why.

    Curiously,
    Vas

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Liam,

    Why do you resort to name calling when I disassemble your arguments (talking points) with examples and supporting evidence? You do realize that’s why I was ruder to you than most other commenters, right? I hate being a complete ass to people, but you seem to be working overtime to get my goat, which I find adorable. At least Henry comes up with original ideas and thoughtfully takes me to task on specific points. You are just intellectually lazy and can’t deal with the fact that what you perceive as a tea party robot is running circles around you in a debate. I’m very sorry to say that, but that’s how you are making me feel.

    Paul Rand is not my man. He is running as a representative in Kentucky. I live in Minnesota. I don’t have any vested interest in him winning or losing that election, regardless of whether he is related to Ron Paul or not. How can I throw a politician under a bus, when he has no relevance to my political life whatsoever? Ditto for Sarah Palin, Joe Miller, Christine O’Donnell, Paladino, on and on and on and on… I am not voting for them, and I cannot vote for them because they are neither in my state, nor running for President at this time. Why give myself ulcers over them, like you do? By the way, my man’s name is Loki — he’s my husband.

    I am a member of the tea party, but the tea party is not a single entity. Go back and read jhalpin666′s comments on the three major types of tea party groups, so I don’t have to do the cutandpasta.

    We’ll agree to disagree on the 17th Amendment. I think it’s a boon to legalized bribery, media manipulation and pressure groups designed to subvert Democracy. You think it’s a boon to Democracy. My arguments failed to convince you, and you haven’t offered any evidence to support it aside from, “it’s direct democracy so it’s must be better!” I don’t feel that you appreciate how complex the issue is. I am gathering from your statements that you feel like I fail to understand how simple the issue is. This is obviously a matter of personal taste. Can you agree on that?

    What the hell is the operative between being an asshole, and being friends with an asshole? You can be the member of something without formal organization. Have you never been part of an informal club, or an international group without any sort of rules? I have. They can be fun, and you can learn a lot. Try it sometime. If you are tired of the backtracking and inconsistency, you must really hate humans.

    “Where’s the accountability? Where’s the integrity? ”

    Accountability and integrity aren’t things you find from without, they are traits that one must develop from within. If that weren’t the case, everyone would be subservient and of the same mind. Humans have free will. Regardless of how hallowed institutions might seem to be, or how strict they are in enforcing their rules, people will be capable of good, evil, ambiguous and just plain weird.

    What do you do for a living? Who butters your bread? I am fascinated by how you seem to find me to be threatening. I want to know why.

    Curiously,
    Vas

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    I fully understand why the ideology I am hanging onto is concerning to you. But this is how I see it: The poor and minorities are already affected the worst, yet the majority of US aid is going to white able-bodied Americans. That makes no sense to me. With that said, I feel that your fear that millions of lives are at stake when it comes to US policy, is true. Perhaps, I can present why I support a very unpopular ideology from a different perspective; the perspective that of an farmer’s wife. I see the ins and outs of a corporate farming, so perhaps you can get a glimpse into why I do not agree with your view about genocide. Honestly, I feel that by reducing government we might prevent a more violent upheavals, and maybe we might even save lives.

    American farmers produce too much food for the citizens of this country. Under normal circumstances, that would mean that commodities would be insanely inexpensive, and with minimal regulation to assure the purity of the food supply, it would be safe to eat. This glut of food could easily be sold to other countries at reasonable prices, or even given away directly to countries that need it in times of crisis. Good farms succeed, farms with poor practices dies. Import tariffs can be used to prevent markets from being flooded by nations that do subsidize their crops to eliminate competition. A national emergency food storage can be formed for times when crops are devastated. New products can be developed with the excess and waste materials as well. Hunger issues are solved and farmers make enough to live on and to save.

    Unfortunately, government over-regulation makes such a scenario next to impossible. The incorporation that’s almost required for a farm in our economic climate, automatically makes a farm’s sole goal to make money at any cost. It also turns the farm into an artificial person (improperly) protected by the 14th Amendment that is shielded from taxes, legal liability and accountability. In order to qualify for government aid, food must be sprayed with a certain amount of fertilizer, herbicide and pesticide — which makes sustainable farming nearly impossible, and encourage companies to develop GMOs with high chemical tolerances. To meet USDA standards, food must be a certain size, shape and weight; if it does not, it goes to rot, since giving it away for free cuts into profit margins. In these situation, the US government buys these excess commodities to give away to welfare recipients. These commodities are distributed according to government nutritional standards (which are mostly the work of bureaucrats and lobby groups, not nutritionists.) As a result these welfare recipients end up with low quality food at the food shelf that fit the government nutritional standards in the most minimal way possible, and do not take their individual activity levels account. As per government subsidy requirements, commodities must be traded in markets prior to distribution, so speculators can set prices. Because of corn ethanol requirements, food crops are diverted to non-alimentary purposes that only benefit the petroleum industry’s green washing tactics. By the time whatever is left is distributed for foreign aid, the lowest quality garbage is left. Instead of helping nations in need, these low quality, but food flood markets of poor nations. As an unintentional consequence, the struggling agricultural industries of developing countries are undermined and destroyed with kindness, because there is no way sustainably grown food can compete with free. At worst, corrupt governments take the bulk of aid food and leave their people to starve.

    I do not want to perpetuate the status quo that I just described. And that, is why I support the tea party movement.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    I fully understand why the ideology I am hanging onto is concerning to you. But this is how I see it: The poor and minorities are already affected the worst, yet the majority of US aid is going to white able-bodied Americans. That makes no sense to me. With that said, I feel that your fear that millions of lives are at stake when it comes to US policy, is true. Perhaps, I can present why I support a very unpopular ideology from a different perspective; the perspective that of an farmer’s wife. I see the ins and outs of a corporate farming, so perhaps you can get a glimpse into why I do not agree with your view about genocide. Honestly, I feel that by reducing government we might prevent a more violent upheavals, and maybe we might even save lives.

    American farmers produce too much food for the citizens of this country. Under normal circumstances, that would mean that commodities would be insanely inexpensive, and with minimal regulation to assure the purity of the food supply, it would be safe to eat. This glut of food could easily be sold to other countries at reasonable prices, or even given away directly to countries that need it in times of crisis. Good farms succeed, farms with poor practices dies. Import tariffs can be used to prevent markets from being flooded by nations that do subsidize their crops to eliminate competition. A national emergency food storage can be formed for times when crops are devastated. New products can be developed with the excess and waste materials as well. Hunger issues are solved and farmers make enough to live on and to save.

    Unfortunately, government over-regulation makes such a scenario next to impossible. The incorporation that’s almost required for a farm in our economic climate, automatically makes a farm’s sole goal to make money at any cost. It also turns the farm into an artificial person (improperly) protected by the 14th Amendment that is shielded from taxes, legal liability and accountability. In order to qualify for government aid, food must be sprayed with a certain amount of fertilizer, herbicide and pesticide — which makes sustainable farming nearly impossible, and encourage companies to develop GMOs with high chemical tolerances. To meet USDA standards, food must be a certain size, shape and weight; if it does not, it goes to rot, since giving it away for free cuts into profit margins. In these situation, the US government buys these excess commodities to give away to welfare recipients. These commodities are distributed according to government nutritional standards (which are mostly the work of bureaucrats and lobby groups, not nutritionists.) As a result these welfare recipients end up with low quality food at the food shelf that fit the government nutritional standards in the most minimal way possible, and do not take their individual activity levels account. As per government subsidy requirements, commodities must be traded in markets prior to distribution, so speculators can set prices. Because of corn ethanol requirements, food crops are diverted to non-alimentary purposes that only benefit the petroleum industry’s green washing tactics. By the time whatever is left is distributed for foreign aid, the lowest quality garbage is left. Instead of helping nations in need, these low quality, but food flood markets of poor nations. As an unintentional consequence, the struggling agricultural industries of developing countries are undermined and destroyed with kindness, because there is no way sustainably grown food can compete with free. At worst, corrupt governments take the bulk of aid food and leave their people to starve.

    I do not want to perpetuate the status quo that I just described. And that, is why I support the tea party movement.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Wow. Amateur indeed. I thought Christine O’Donnell was an idiot. But now that I see you’re running on a “No Running Water Platform” (vide #2), you’ve changed my mind entirely: You’re the Real Deal.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Wow. Amateur indeed. I thought Christine O’Donnell was an idiot. But now that I see you’re running on a “No Running Water Platform” (vide #2), you’ve changed my mind entirely: You’re the Real Deal.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Liam,

    In case you didn’t catch the joke, I was making a reference to your blog. http://thegreatamateurhour.blogspot.com/

    I am the real deal, I have a bigger cock than you, and I’m a girl.

    You cutie pie!

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Wow again. Me threatened by you? You’re the most charmingly idiotic poster I’ve seen since MeatHandler.

    What fantasy world are you living in? Apparently a world where I find your long, rambling diarrhea -like posts something other than:

    1.) Freakin’ hillarious!
    2.) An excellent advertisement for voting against the Tea Party platform

    So, no I don’t take your failure to address any of the point’s I’ve made as a sign of hostility–merely evidence of your feeble mindedness.

    If the orderlies in your mental home ever read your posts, I recommend they give you an extra cookie before beddie-byes tonight, you’re so darling. You’ve given us all so many laughs here with your posts.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    Wow again. Me threatened by you? You’re the most charmingly idiotic poster I’ve seen since MeatHandler.

    What fantasy world are you living in? Apparently a world where I find your long, rambling diarrhea -like posts something other than:

    1.) Freakin’ hillarious!
    2.) An excellent advertisement for voting against the Tea Party platform

    So, no I don’t take your failure to address any of the point’s I’ve made as a sign of hostility–merely evidence of your feeble mindedness.

    If the orderlies in your mental home ever read your posts, I recommend they give you an extra cookie before beddie-byes tonight, you’re so darling. You’ve given us all so many laughs here with your posts.

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Liam,I thought better of my original response, and now I must ask, what points have I not addressed? I would like to answer them. Or, are you just troll-baiting and are simply not used to being blessed by Eris?Vas

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Liam,I thought better of my original response, and now I must ask, what points have I not addressed? I would like to answer them. Or, are you just troll-baiting and are simply not used to being blessed by Eris?Vas

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Being part of a brilliant music group is not necessarily a recipe for political guru-ship…

    On the one hand…theres John Lennon…ok…so it worked for him…

    … but theres also Ted Nugent…and plenty of us wish he’d put a sock in it and stick to rocking out.

    Mo…love the music…always will…but thats where our relationship ends and takes divergent paths. Peace and love.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Being part of a brilliant music group is not necessarily a recipe for political guru-ship…

    On the one hand…theres John Lennon…ok…so it worked for him…

    … but theres also Ted Nugent…and plenty of us wish he’d put a sock in it and stick to rocking out.

    Mo…love the music…always will…but thats where our relationship ends and takes divergent paths. Peace and love.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Being part of a brilliant music group is not necessarily a recipe for political guru-ship…

    On the one hand…theres John Lennon…ok…so it worked for him…

    … but theres also Ted Nugent…and plenty of us wish he’d put a sock in it and stick to rocking out.

    Mo…love the music…always will…but thats where our relationship ends and takes divergent paths. Peace and love.

  • Dave

    This is the best comments sections I have seen on Disinfo in quite a while.

    The best part is seeing a McGonagle getting his ass handed back to him on a plate.

    I love how he has liked all his own posts too! XD

  • Dave

    This is the best comments sections I have seen on Disinfo in quite a while.

    The best part is seeing a McGonagle getting his ass handed back to him on a plate.

    I love how he has liked all his own posts too! XD

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Thank you so much Dave. Liam was absolutely fun to play with. After having read all his articles on Disinfo, I realized that he’s such cutie pie when it come to his opinions. ;)

    He liked his own posts? Seriously? Giving him the benefit of a doubt, can a person even do that?

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

    Thank you so much Dave. Liam was absolutely fun to play with. After having read all his articles on Disinfo, I realized that he’s such cutie pie when it come to his opinions. ;)

    He liked his own posts? Seriously? Giving him the benefit of a doubt, can a person even do that?

  • lost in thought

    You’re absolutely bent on having the last word. Aren’t you?

  • http://twitter.com/vaslittlecrow Vanesa Littlecrow W

  • http://vaslittlecrow.com/ Vas Littlecrow Wojtanowicz

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