Atheists Assaulted for Objecting to Prayer (Video)

On April 29, 2010, activists Mitch Kahle and Kevin Hughes were assaulted by Ben Villaflor, the Senate Sergeant-At-Arms, and State Sheriff’s Deputies, for objecting to unconstitutional Christian prayers used to begin each session of the Hawaii State Legislature. Hughes was injured in the attack and was taken to the hospital for x-rays and treatment. Kahle was arrested and prosecuted, but was ultimately vindicated when Judge Leslie Hayashi found Kahle “NOT GUILTY” and ruled that: “The Senate’s [Christian] prayers violate the constitutional separation of church and state.”

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  • jerd.

    Holy Cow!

  • jerd.

    Holy Cow!

    • Jj

      These guys are heros. They are true Hawaiian heroes and need to be commemorated by the state. I’m serious. This is what courage and intelligence are all about, and any Hawaiian should be proud to have them as fellow citizens. The are a cynosure for the entire country.

      • Andrew

        Lol, you think some fat guy making false objections is a hero. Wake up

        • Rick

          Theists will only do something good for promise of future reward. Will only resist bad behavior under threat of punishment. If there is a reward to be won in the “afterlife” surely it must be obtained through unselfish sacrifice and unbridled compassion for others. It must be a lonely place.

  • jerd.

    After a little more research into this, the cameraman is pressing charges. Apparently the protester was assaulted in an elevator ride as well by one of the officers. The man that punched that camera is a retired boxer as well. The youtube video has a comment about the protester not having the right to exercise his 1st amendment right in a public forum (he was arrested for disorderly conduct), it would be the same as “going into a courtroom and yelling “fuck you” to the judge. A lawyer clarified that this is not the case, especially when he was attempting to uphold the constitution and point out that the elected officials were completely ignoring the fact that there is a separation of church and state in this country. This body of elected officials were previously asked to quit invoking prayer by a judge, which they did, only to start again soon after.

  • jerd.

    After a little more research into this, the cameraman is pressing charges. Apparently the protester was assaulted in an elevator ride as well by one of the officers. The man that punched that camera is a retired boxer as well. The youtube video has a comment about the protester not having the right to exercise his 1st amendment right in a public forum (he was arrested for disorderly conduct), it would be the same as “going into a courtroom and yelling “fuck you” to the judge. A lawyer clarified that this is not the case, especially when he was attempting to uphold the constitution and point out that the elected officials were completely ignoring the fact that there is a separation of church and state in this country. This body of elected officials were previously asked to quit invoking prayer by a judge, which they did, only to start again soon after.

  • Jj

    These guys are heros. They are true Hawaiian heroes and need to be commemorated by the state. I’m serious. This is what courage and intelligence are all about, and any Hawaiian should be proud to have them as fellow citizens. The are a cynosure for the entire country.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    The epitome of conservative Christian eloquence…absence of answers…fall back on handcuffs, truncheons and fists.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    The epitome of conservative Christian eloquence…absence of answers…fall back on handcuffs, truncheons and fists.

    • Ahmed Ata Razeq

      And its always been so since the dark ages.
      Me I’m a religious person, but I definitely agree with our constitution that state and church should be separated;

      Though for all of you who are (for lack of a better word right now) dogging on religion you are all just as blind. Religion in the past had the biggest connection with metaphysical, scientific, and epistemic studies. For one Islam in its golden age had amassed so much philosophical work (its own and others like Grecian and so on) it was amazing and only because of pillaging in the crusades and translations did the Europeans gain a foothold again. All the atheists here may doubt religion but I don’t know why you would doubt the existence of a God.

      Just so you guys can have even a small (non-religious) reason to believe look up “Pascal’s Wager” and tell me it’s not better for you :).

      • Acw

        a very unintelligent theist indeed, why don’t you look up the counter argument, the atheists wager, and tell me what you think

      • Tom

        There is one very simple way of showing why Pascal’s Wager is useless: What if a DIFFERENT God exists?
        The wager assumes there are 2 possibilities: The biblical God existing, or not existing. What about Hindu Gods? Roman Gods? Greek Gods? Pagan Gods? Egyptian Gods? Mayan Gods? ….
        If you consider that there are potentially an INFINITE number of possible God, then the wager’s argument ceases to make any sense.

        • Ahmed Ata Razeq

          First I’d like to say Pascal’s wager isn’t the reason I believe in God, and on that I don’t feel the need to explain myself.

          First before talking about your issue with the wager; I think there’s a point Pascal is trying to make that it seems (to me at least) you’re missing. What Pascal is trying to show is that since under a theoretical basis it is so difficult to decide whether a God exists or not; it becomes okay to use practical reason. Really what I’m getting at is this gives you a reason to begin believing in God that has your best interest in mind.

          Also as for your many Gods objection it isn’t to big of a deal. even if there are many Gods Pascal would say pick one because in the end you still avoid infinite pain (eternal damnation). After you pick whichever God you want you cultivate the belief until it becomes your own; and there is no way that you can look at the wager box and say that the pay off in believing isn’t better. It takes time and repetition but the belief will soon follow action. It is a good reason to start believing, but not a good reason to continue believing.

          • Disinfo

            Let me give you something else to think about. Look up Russel’s Teapot.

          • runujhkj

            But since there are an infinite number of possible gods, it is equally likely that the “one true god” won’t be petty enough to want people worshiping his holiness every Sunday. Maybe he even punishes those who do.

            Not to mention how offensive it is to religious people to believe in a higher power purely for one’s own best interests.

          • Shanabell69

            no christian feel the need to explain themselves when there is NO explanation. That is a typical theologian response. Thanks for living up to the stereotypes! Your VERY blind! You say to PICK ONE?!? That is the dumbest statement ever made. If you knew ANYTHING about other religions you would know not ALL believe in eternal damnation. Thats a CHRISTIAN! gotta love the stupidity. It helps in supporting my belief that NO MAN knows what is true and what is not. If there is a god he isnt making himself look very good saving only blind morons.

          • Michael Price

            If it isn’t why you believe in God why bring it up? And why defend it? Pascal’s wager assumes an enormous amount of information he doesn’t have, for instance that the supreme being values belief in him highly, or indeed at all. Believing because it benefits you is a mental process that gets easier the more you do it. Believing in God for a benefit makes it more likely that you will believe in other things to benefit you, even if these things aren’t supported by evidence or are even contradicted by it. Since believing in things that aren’t supported by evidence is generally bad (morally and practically) Pascal’s wager has effectively a very high cost, not a zero one.

          • Mike

            Just to remind you, and keep you on task, the issue has nothing to do with a god. Or multiples of them. The argument lies with the man made construct of religion; in all it’s many forms.

            Our religions were evolved and designed by our ancestors over many years, it’s success was through fear, word of mouth, from parent to child. A very good system for any sort of information in non-free conditions, and when you are uneducated.

      • Disinfo

        You should know better than to pull Pascal’s wager. What’s next, “Five billion people believe god so she must exist”. Go look up logical fallacies, get some education, learn to think…

        • http://twitter.com/MrMusicalLion Bradley Dean

          There is no excuse for hatred whether or not you believe in a God.
          I am yet to see a single problem solved through hate.
          Trying to solve a problem with hate is like trying to put out a fire with oil.

          As for the existance of a God,
          Well, what if there is a God?
          I’m not forcing anyone to believe/disbelieve. It’s an open question/thought.
          I think that if there is a God,
          then what is that God like?
          Is that God violent, hypocritical, quick to judge…?
          Sounds more like the workings of a dictator to me.

          If someone says that they believe in God, I have nothing wrong with that
          As long as they believe in a fair God, fine.
          It’s the people who think that God wants to kill everyone and punish the unbelievers, it’s those people that I do not have any time for at all.

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        I’m already familiar with Pascal’s Wager…which generally only makes a big impression on students who took a single course in philosophy and then never followed up. The Wager makes a presumption that belief does no harm and might potentially offer great good in the future…and thus there is compelling reason to believe “just in case”.

        Quite the opposite is true. It does enormous harm…by legitimizing participation in the crimes against humans that others commit daily, as well as perpetuating harmful delusions that have ruined lives since the dawn of religion as a concept. Non-belief can only end these cycles of perpetual delusion and misery…thus the Wager is meaningless…a pseudo-intellectual excuse built on a flawed premise.

        I appreciate that you took the time to be convincing in a reasonable and polite way…but sadly the argument you offer up is a very old and very tired one that failed long ago and shouldn’t be resurrected except as a joke amongst people who already know better.

        • Ahmed Ata Razeq

          1 – To Disinfino: I don’t really see how Russel’s Teapot fits in here? Is it because it’s not up to you to disprove God’s existence, because I’m not trying to prove God’s existence just a simple reason to maybe start believing.

          2 – To VoxMagi: On a note I’m an undergrad as a Bio/Philosophy double major and only one semester to go; so it’s not that it had a big impression on me.

          Also when you say “The Wager makes a presumption that belief does no harm and might potentially offer great good in the future…Quite the opposite is true. It does enormous harm”, in what sense do you mean? Are you saying you can’t both be a theist and rational because I do beg to differ; and not looking at history or paraphrasing holy texts in what sense does religion tell people to participate in crimes against humans. It’s not religion that pushes people to do stupid, crazy, or irrational things no that’s all voluntary.

          I’m not trying to convince anyone with Pascal’s wager, but how do you want to explain the form of “humanity”; are you willing to compare us to behavioristic animals because I’m definitely not. We are rational thinkers and that isn’t something that comes with evolution like an enhanced brain or other features might. Even the Grecian’s noticed that a soul is something that only (at least as far as we know) humans have, and are you going to give me some (sorry) BS theoretical idea as to how people all of a sudden stumbled upon a soul. Plato had to say our soul is the center of all knowledge and that our knowledge is given to us by the form of good, the ultimate reality (God?). I can’t compare myself to great philosophers but I do think God exists.

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            Sorry for the delay…my Disqus alerts have been getting pegged as spam for some reason.

            A) With regard to the wager, Pascal presupposes that we gain for belief, even doubting belief that grows with time, and possibly lose all in the even of non-belief. What we gain, theoretically, is Heaven, or access thereto. What we lose in the event of wasted belief is proclaimed to be nothing at all. The fallacy is that the ‘nothing’ which we lose through wasted belief is actually comprised of intangibles that do, ultimately, have a collective impact on our immediate and physical existence. Imagine a world where emotional, moral, intellectual and physical effort was not misspent on fallacy…it isn’t easy to tally the effects, because we deal in potentiality. We can assert that effort is spent and maintained in belief…but how do we tally where that effort would be spent if the world had no belief in supreme being myths and invested that thought and effort and energy into more legitimate concerns. So leaving aside the traditional claim that the unnecessary divisions between faiths eventually lead to violence and cruelty of both emotional and physical nature, if all we measure is the value of the misspent effort, then yes…belief in false myths that shape the way we interact with the world and plan for our well being IS harmful.

            B) As for the form of humanity, there is nothing substantive to mark us as anything more than a large brained animal that developed a strong knack for abstract thought. The capacity to learn, adapt, dream, imagine and even deduct from short term experiences exist in even lower orders of creatures, so there is no conflict with evolution of any kind. To believe, on the other hand, that it is not possible for such a capacity for reason to refine and develop as an advantage through natural processes is almost laughably arrogant when one weighs the probability, even near inevitability, that life would favor advantages that produce regular benefits (as intelligence clearly does), thereby making the evolution of a creature with a fully rational mind a very likely possibility rather than a possibility which could never have come about by any means other than divine intervention.

            As for the soul…it too is an intangible concept, and while I believe we possess consciousness, that does not add up to some guarantee of eternal life alongside a supreme being. I have no BS theoretical notions about the existence of a divine soul in all of us spontaneously happening without a divine being…and thus I have nothing to believe in other than the conscious minds we all possess, each accumulating experiences over a life time and ceasing utterly to exist after death.

            Contrary to what one might expect, this doesn’t generate a nihilistic view of the world, but rather an amazement at its complexity and an awe of the odds involved…as well as a profound value placed upon the time we spend alive…because that time spent in life is all the more important and precious when we take away the horrifying lie of an eternal bliss for which people sacrifice much rather than investing in reality.

            At the end of the day, the rationality some praise as our divinely granted virtue seems to have allowed us to believe in a accepting long term investments of effort into short term ‘feel good’ expressions of faith…at the expense of much more pressing needs…even needs that might constitute ‘survival’ related issues. This is grossly illogical…unless one first accepts that ‘eternal life’ is more important actual, immediate life…and thus our collective efforts are completely squandered, generation after generation. I do not accept that this wasted effort is ‘nothing lost’ as per the wager…I consider it a debilitating illness that plagues us as cruelly as famine, disaster or disease.

          • Hussein Al-hout

            In reply to VoxMagi

            We know of nothing in our universe which posses the intellectual ability such as ourselves…If there is no God, then what is greater than a human?

            The belief in God is a belief that there is something greater out there. If the great men throughout time never believed in something beyond which was already known, as a fact and bluntly presented to them, then we would be much less informed then we are today.

            As far as religion promising eternity ( 8 ) of bliss…is it really impossible? Maybe to our limited comprehension…Remember the light bulb was very recently invented in 1879.

      • Shanabell69

        A true Atheist doesnt believe anything without proof of its existance. So far there have been NO clear proof of the existance of a god. Also its the opposite of blind to try and find supporting facts to draw a conclusion from. That is when you truly have your eyes open, even in the face of fear and opposition of others. So how is religion or the belief in a higher power not blind?

        • Luke

          “A true Atheist doesn’t believe anything without proof of its existence” True. But since the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproven, there is no proof of Gods non existence either. Therefore true atheism is somewhat irrational, IMO. Agnostic atheism is a more rational stance.

          Also, given that Gods existence can neither be proven nor disproven, can we all just happily let each other believe what we want as long as its not hurting (or potentially inciting hurt) anyone else??

          • delusional

            lol, saying that is like me telling you I have an invisible elephant that follows me around all the time, can you prove it or disprove it?

          • Iamroont

            “Also, given that Gods existence can neither be proven nor disproven, can we all just happily let each other believe what we want as long as its not hurting (or potentially inciting hurt) anyone else?? ”

            Yes, but as you can clearly see in the video above, a belief in god was what triggered those people to assault the man who was only trying to hold up the constitution. A belief in god is NOT harmless. It is NOT just a whim for people to take to heart and comfort themselves with. If it were I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But countless “witches” have been burned, countless jihad has been waged, and countless people die in the name of god all the time. harmless?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1072029660 Jenni Allen

        You really think Atheists are not familiar with the faulty logic and poor faith of Pascal’s Wager. I think any honest Christian would reject such a gutless appeal to fear of hell, for it is not true faith. God would see past such a degrading reason for belief. I take Thomas Jefferson’s stance that; any god would honor the homage reason over that of blind folded fear.

        If god is real, we need proof. All the proof we have of the validity of the Bible is that of ancient text, that of which Christian Theologians can’t even deny was altered over, and over, to suit the writer’s ideas of what the Bible should have said, not what god really said. There’s no proof of a global flood. There’s no proof Jews ever were enslaved in Egypt. There’s no proof of Jesus’ actual existence.

        Faith is never something we use in everyday life, as responsible adults, not in the court of law, not in our hospitals and clinics, not in education, not in engineering or technology, not in economics, not in any honest rational inquiry of what is the just, right or safe thing to do. The faithful act no more moral than anyone else, as this video so prominently shows. I will stick to secular humanism thank you, as I will strive to do good for no expectation of eternal reward or for fear of eternal retribution, but to help others for the obvious greater good.

        • Slunkmonky

          Even if fear of hell were a reason to believe,, then which hell should we try to avoid? In trying to avoid on you end up destined for another.

        • Marelle_julien

          Really just think what you are saying , how are you going to denounce the given facts of the text who in the hell wrote it modern man , how could it not be authenthic if i spelled that right.

          • Marelle_julien

            the truth is out there you just don’t wanna believe it so go about your rebelling ways if that makes you far better
            .

          • Marelle_julien

            you just don’t have the right sources!!!!! so looked harder then you will find what you are looking for

      • Yiggoto

        Why do I deny the existance of God? There is no evidence for any god. That’s why.

      • Mike

        Ahh, you are correct, but the benefit of the religious structure has completely been replaced by modern societal structures, like any first world government (another big one is education for all). I’m sorry, but the religion bandwagon is on it’s way out, all independently minded bright individuals would benefit from not following infantile dogma.

      • Whatever41

        What Pascal didn’t realize was that his wager applied to EVERY religion that has either a “Hell” or a “Heaven” and pretty much all of them DO so basically it says you have to believe in every religion – the absurdity of which is clear. So Pascal’s Wager is clearly bunk.

    • hahaha

      Blah, blah, blah…….what?

  • Strummingbabe

    if i had uzi’s for eyeballs i’d fill those pieces of CRAP atheists and slaves of the state full of lead

  • Strummingbabe

    i hate atheists, they are annoying, the majority of atheists are pedophiles.

    You hear me atheists? F You.

  • Strummingbabe

    if i had uzi’s for eyeballs i’d fill those pieces of CRAP atheists and slaves of the state full of lead

    • AJL1987

      How very christian of you to say that

    • Pokerface

      You’re going to hell for saying that

    • Chi

      If you had uzis for eyeballs, sir, you’d be hitting nothing, as you would not be able to see. Nor would you be able to function. Although you’d certainly have enough room up there for the bullets. So at least there is that.

    • Gmcnultnult

      strummingbabe…you are a troll :)

    • Bobthebiulder

      Whats the matter red neck does your priest not want you anymore, have you got to old for him. thick shit.

    • Eymhere

      Maybe you could make a new religion that kills non-believers….Oh wait, there’s been a bunch of them. Maybe you could start a new religion based on intelligence. That would be a new one.

      • Nunya

        Isn’t that called Intelligent Design? Oh wait… never mind, those people are pretty stupid as well.

    • Sidbimbo

      wow – are you taking the piss? No-one can be this retarded, surely? Evolved much? Oh yeah, sorry, christian’s don’t ‘evolve’ do they, they just get put here on this planet automatically, what was it, a couple of thousand years ago, yeah?…and ohh, your ancestors had dinosaurs for ickle cute pets, and all the animals ever in the world all fitted into a biiiig boat, with all the food and water to keep them alive for 40 days??… hmmm… wow… yeah, how simple life is in your ickle tiny pea brain! haha! If ignorance is bliss, then you gotta be the happiest spastic on the planet!

    • Andrew

      Thanks for proving the atheists’ point.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C5AKM2QTHZAE267QH6T4N2TYLM Psychedelic

      Uzis for eyeballs? This fundie is pissed.

      Fuck your religion and fuck your violence to support it.

    • Laknsion

      8/10
      Decent responses, but more rage inducing content.

    • Science

      TROLL.
      Also, being made of guns sounds like one of those things your religion might send you to hell for…. just sayin….

  • Strummingbabe

    i hate atheists, they are annoying, the majority of atheists are pedophiles.

    You hear me atheists? F You.

    • AJL87

      Because we all know good christian folk aren’t pedophiles at all, right? Oh except for those priests and high ranking church officials that try to cover it up.

    • NonReligious

      It’s ignorance like yours that makes me hate most religious people.

    • Chi

      You say that simply because you are, more than likely, some idiot creationist believing christian, who has failed to recognize the fact that it is your priests who are molesting young alter boys. As far as annoying goes, at least we don’t go door to door attempting to sell some outdated work of fiction that brings mostly bad into the world.

    • Nrsteeves

      I literally don’t know how to respond to this, it has filled me with so much anger and disappointment in your narrow-mindedness… I hope for your sake and the sake of the world you have the opportunity to learn the truth about the universe, and why you are utterly and completely wrong. However, may the energy of the universe reveal it’s divine truth unto you, and purge from your brain the perverted power that religion has upon you. I personally know an ex-pastor of mine who was child molestor, one of three priests I have ever known in my entire life. Of the dozens of athiests I have met, not a single one of them is a pedophile, and neither am I. Simple math there. Please at least attempt to educate yourself, and don’t take for granted whatever hate-filled and unhappy person taught you these ideas said. Good luck.

    • Yermom

      wow, christian hate, just like jesus preached

    • r.s.

      We don’t need your god to have morals. We are good people regardless of the fact that we aren’t threatened to hell if we sin (something you might want to look into), and we are more like your Christ than you have ever been.

    • dumbsaint

      lol Strummingbabe, what made you de-lurk again? We’ve had far better trolls in your absence.

    • D3r3kmartin

      you’re an idiot and a blemish on mankind, I have never been a pedophile and never will, but look to the church and all those priest who go around sexually abusing children. It’s people like you that get us atheist up in arms, what happened to jesus’s preaching of tolerance and love for mankind.

    • Rocker_91

      lolololol What a troll, I think someone needs a hug. I’d give you one, but I’m afraid it’s nothing like the private Sunday after-church “bible study” from your priest that you’re used to.

    • jesusandsatanloveeachother

      so much for love they neighbor. God will punish you for hating. you will spend all of eternity in HELLLLLLL MwAahahahaha

    • Julia__marie

      you are an arrogant douche.

      honestly, listen to yourself…its embarrassing.

      because YOU KNOW you DONT KNOW every person who is an athiest.

      you’re an absolute moron who doesn’t know shit all about what you posted and just made yourself look like an idiot. bravo, bring on more retarded posts like that you fucking prick

    • Sidbimbo

      ah yes, spoken like a true Christian! … Putting the ‘fun’ into fundamentalist, or just the ‘mental’? ha ha!

    • aerie

      Then you hate the Constitution as well.

      You hear her/him/it founding fathers? F You.

    • Norman Miller

      This post really says all that needs to be said of a Christian. “hate atheists?” Would that be what Jesus would say? And as for “the majority of atheists” when was the last time you heard about “atheist sexual abuse” relative to “clergy sexual abuse”?

      Jew, Muslims, and Hindus are screwed up too, but nothing is more pathetic than a Christian.

    • Pinkinvisibleuicorn

      You mean, catholic priests, pastors and the like, don’t you? Atheists just don’t believe in fables and, above all, don’t use the name of any imaginary friend to justify their actions. You can hate whomever you want but not judge them or have your own predujiced bias againt anyone. Go back to school and study mythology, astrotheology, comparative religion. Do your homework and stop writing nonsense.

    • Good German

      Thanks for proving the atheists’ point.

    • Melganis

      you fell pretty hard for the Trolling here guys :P….you’re all ample Troll bait ^_^……but yeah, this was just wrong….can’t believe shit like this still happens in our country….but I know many Christians that would be abhorred by this too, this is the radical face of Christianity, just like every religion has it’s radical set… it does not account for the whole, No, I’m not religious, I’m an Apatheist.

    • dddjjj

      troll is troll, open ya eyes

    • fastertortoise2

      Masturbation is a sin- you go to hell for ever and ever. Masturbating with your left hand is even more sinful and you go to hell for ever and ever. Masturbating with your mother’s underwear on your head is kinky, yet sinful. You would go to hell for ever and ever.
      You’ve gotta love the deterence factor in christianity.

      There is a reason why i have used masturbation as an example, it’s because the whole christian synthesis is unhealthily obsessed with it- I’m not obsessed with it at all, i’ll just do it when i feel like (minus the underwear of course). Yes, i am a wanker. I am normal.

    • Jizlemn

      opinions are like a-holes they usaully stink, and im guessin that you’ve been living under a rock because you’re saying atheists are pedophiles. what about the christian priests touching little boys.

    • lordbutz

      you are sooooo right!! i should become a priest and molest children in the name of GOD. then, and only then would my purpose on this earth be fulfilled.

    • Nate

      I don’t know about you, but I love atheists in a non platonic way.

    • GoodDoktorBad

      Thanks for that eloquent proclamation of Christian “values”. What you value is vile.

    • dbgvkj;

      lol

    • J.

      Not only are you vastly misinformed, but your grammar makes me sad.

      I don’t have the time to rant about how awful people like you are. Today is my day to drug and rape children, and you’re spoiling it.

    • Rkrawitz

      no your wrong all of your preist are the pedophiles

    • Vikingelvis

      Hi, troll! :D

    • Yummycars321

      Then forgive us. ;D
      And leave the judging to your “God”.

    • EbrahimAllie

      The majority of atheists are paedophiles? You mean unlike all those Catholic priests we keep hearing about.

    • Kyla

      you’re kidding right?
      way to make an extreme judgment about thousands of people around the world. That type of attitude is the exact reason why some people choose to break away from religious institutions and follow their own type of faith.

    • Not a Cannibal

      Okay Mr. My-God-is-a-Zombie! Have fun cannibalizing him! :D
      Good to know religious people are still as accepting as they claim to be too! Way to spread the Good Word!

      Also, TROLL.

    • Jet

      you are stupid and ignorant too. christians are pervs. and haters…duh

    • Mhager11

      You are the worst that humanity has to offer you low life cowardly troll. I know you wouldn’t have the nerve to say that to anyone’s face, you goddamned coward.

  • AJL87

    Because we all know good christian folk aren’t pedophiles at all, right? Oh except for those priests and high ranking church officials that try to cover it up.

  • NonReligious

    It’s ignorance like yours that makes me hate most religious people.

  • AJL1987

    How very christian of you to say that

  • Pokerface

    You’re going to hell for saying that

  • Chi

    You say that simply because you are, more than likely, some idiot creationist believing christian, who has failed to recognize the fact that it is your priests who are molesting young alter boys. As far as annoying goes, at least we don’t go door to door attempting to sell some outdated work of fiction that brings mostly bad into the world.

  • Chi

    If you had uzis for eyeballs, sir, you’d be hitting nothing, as you would not be able to see. Nor would you be able to function. Although you’d certainly have enough room up there for the bullets. So at least there is that.

  • Nrsteeves

    I literally don’t know how to respond to this, it has filled me with so much anger and disappointment in your narrow-mindedness… I hope for your sake and the sake of the world you have the opportunity to learn the truth about the universe, and why you are utterly and completely wrong. However, may the energy of the universe reveal it’s divine truth unto you, and purge from your brain the perverted power that religion has upon you. I personally know an ex-pastor of mine who was child molestor, one of three priests I have ever known in my entire life. Of the dozens of athiests I have met, not a single one of them is a pedophile, and neither am I. Simple math there. Please at least attempt to educate yourself, and don’t take for granted whatever hate-filled and unhappy person taught you these ideas said. Good luck.

  • Disgusted

    Hypocrisy at its best. Break your own laws and then expect the rest of the world to adhere to what you say .. a case of “do as I say, not as I do”

  • Disgusted

    Hypocrisy at its best. Break your own laws and then expect the rest of the world to adhere to what you say .. a case of “do as I say, not as I do”

  • Gmcnultnult

    strummingbabe…you are a troll :)

  • anon

    trollface.jpg

  • Yermom

    wow, christian hate, just like jesus preached

  • r.s.

    We don’t need your god to have morals. We are good people regardless of the fact that we aren’t threatened to hell if we sin (something you might want to look into), and we are more like your Christ than you have ever been.

  • Anonymous

    lol Strummingbabe, what made you de-lurk again? We’ve had far better trolls in your absence.

  • D3r3kmartin

    you’re an idiot and a blemish on mankind, I have never been a pedophile and never will, but look to the church and all those priest who go around sexually abusing children. It’s people like you that get us atheist up in arms, what happened to jesus’s preaching of tolerance and love for mankind.

  • Rocker_91

    lolololol What a troll, I think someone needs a hug. I’d give you one, but I’m afraid it’s nothing like the private Sunday after-church “bible study” from your priest that you’re used to.

  • Bobthebiulder

    Whats the matter red neck does your priest not want you anymore, have you got to old for him. thick shit.

  • Eymhere

    Maybe you could make a new religion that kills non-believers….Oh wait, there’s been a bunch of them. Maybe you could start a new religion based on intelligence. That would be a new one.

  • jesusandsatanloveeachother

    so much for love they neighbor. God will punish you for hating. you will spend all of eternity in HELLLLLLL MwAahahahaha

  • Julia__marie

    you are an arrogant douche.

    honestly, listen to yourself…its embarrassing.

    because YOU KNOW you DONT KNOW every person who is an athiest.

    you’re an absolute moron who doesn’t know shit all about what you posted and just made yourself look like an idiot. bravo, bring on more retarded posts like that you fucking prick

  • Sidbimbo

    ah yes, spoken like a true Christian! … Putting the ‘fun’ into fundamentalist, or just the ‘mental’? ha ha!

  • Rafer27

    all this trouble because of the belief in a poorly conceived story book. all the main players are bronze age
    middle eastern goat hearding jews, who have no problem w/ murdering women and children in droves at the drop of a turban. you can tell that the court officials and cops are fierce adherents to the old testement. the low intelligence and quick use of excessive force is the hallmark of good christian ethics. religion is like a penis, it’s good to have one but dont go whipping it out and waving it around. and you should definately go to jail if you try to force it down peoples throats.(especially childrens) let them grow up superstitian free until their old enough to decide or dumb enough to have no choice,” ’cause thinkin’ for maself is hahd”.

  • Rafer27

    all this trouble because of the belief in a poorly conceived story book. all the main players are bronze age
    middle eastern goat hearding jews, who have no problem w/ murdering women and children in droves at the drop of a turban. you can tell that the court officials and cops are fierce adherents to the old testement. the low intelligence and quick use of excessive force is the hallmark of good christian ethics. religion is like a penis, it’s good to have one but dont go whipping it out and waving it around. and you should definately go to jail if you try to force it down peoples throats.(especially childrens) let them grow up superstitian free until their old enough to decide or dumb enough to have no choice,” ’cause thinkin’ for maself is hahd”.

  • Rafer27

    all this trouble because of the belief in a poorly conceived story book. all the main players are bronze age
    middle eastern goat hearding jews, who have no problem w/ murdering women and children in droves at the drop of a turban. you can tell that the court officials and cops are fierce adherents to the old testement. the low intelligence and quick use of excessive force is the hallmark of good christian ethics. religion is like a penis, it’s good to have one but dont go whipping it out and waving it around. and you should definately go to jail if you try to force it down peoples throats.(especially childrens) let them grow up superstitian free until their old enough to decide or dumb enough to have no choice,” ’cause thinkin’ for maself is hahd”.

    • Jbooks

      poorly conceived? indeed you’ve never read or understood it.

      • APR

        The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

        No, we read and understand. Judeochristoislaminism preaches VIOLENCE!

      • Shanabell69

        I HAVE READ ALL OF IT AND HES RIGHT it is very poorly concieved and HYPACRITICAL in every way. It is a huge contradiction from cover to cover. I guess thats why they felt the need to seperate the two books into old and new. Its ALL bullshit to me.

      • Iamroont

        I have read the bible and understood it very well to be a bunch of stories written up by men who would have thought a wheelbarrow to be amazing technology. They are stories to try and understand that which we COULDN’T understand at the time. The god of the bible is the exact same as Zeus or the other polytheistic gods. Do you still believe that lighting is caused when the gods are angry? no, because we understand nature a lot more then we did then.

      • Shanabell69

        it is poorly conceived just like your responses

    • dizzy

      “religion is like a penis, it’s good to have one but dont go whipping it out and waving it around. and you should definately go to jail if you try to force it down peoples throats.”

      WIN! this just became my new favorite quote. lmao.

      • linbegone

        Priceless

  • aerie

    Then you hate the Constitution as well.

    You hear her/him/it founding fathers? F You.

  • Sidbimbo

    wow – are you taking the piss? No-one can be this retarded, surely? Evolved much? Oh yeah, sorry, christian’s don’t ‘evolve’ do they, they just get put here on this planet automatically, what was it, a couple of thousand years ago, yeah?…and ohh, your ancestors had dinosaurs for ickle cute pets, and all the animals ever in the world all fitted into a biiiig boat, with all the food and water to keep them alive for 40 days??… hmmm… wow… yeah, how simple life is in your ickle tiny pea brain! haha! If ignorance is bliss, then you gotta be the happiest spastic on the planet!

  • Norman Miller

    Christian atrocities know no bounds. Large or small it doesn’t matter. What they do in the name of Christ is what it is. The video speaks for itself. Sure Muslims and Jews and Hindus are screwed up too, but Christians are the worst. Insidious.

  • Norman Miller

    Christian atrocities know no bounds. Large or small it doesn’t matter. What they do in the name of Christ is what it is. The video speaks for itself. Sure Muslims and Jews and Hindus are screwed up too, but Christians are the worst. Insidious.

  • Norman Miller

    This post really says all that needs to be said of a Christian. “hate atheists?” Would that be what Jesus would say? And as for “the majority of atheists” when was the last time you heard about “atheist sexual abuse” relative to “clergy sexual abuse”?

    Jew, Muslims, and Hindus are screwed up too, but nothing is more pathetic than a Christian.

  • Pinkinvisibleuicorn

    You mean, catholic priests, pastors and the like, don’t you? Atheists just don’t believe in fables and, above all, don’t use the name of any imaginary friend to justify their actions. You can hate whomever you want but not judge them or have your own predujiced bias againt anyone. Go back to school and study mythology, astrotheology, comparative religion. Do your homework and stop writing nonsense.

  • Thecontrolroom

    GOD DAMN RIGHT. This is what I like to see. Viva revolucion.

  • Thecontrolroom

    GOD DAMN RIGHT. This is what I like to see. Viva revolucion.

  • Andrew

    Thanks for proving the atheists’ point.

  • Good German

    Thanks for proving the atheists’ point.

  • Good German

    Thanks for proving the atheists’ point.

  • Wfits

    Sickening. These people need to learn to prioritize better things than upholding a faulty and contradictory book based upon hearsay. Better things, like the welfare of the country and its people, for starters. The sad thing is, many people won’t see anything wrong with this, all they will see are calm people trying to lead a prayer and “atheists” attempting to prosecute and ruin that.

  • Wfits

    Sickening. These people need to learn to prioritize better things than upholding a faulty and contradictory book based upon hearsay. Better things, like the welfare of the country and its people, for starters. The sad thing is, many people won’t see anything wrong with this, all they will see are calm people trying to lead a prayer and “atheists” attempting to prosecute and ruin that.

    • IAMB

      Couldn’t agree more. Its quite ironic that the religious group that claims they are persecuted the most are the ones who are most apt to persecute others based on lack of belief. What did that hebrew carpenter say, “Blessed are those who are persecuted in my name” or “Blessed are those who persecute in my name?” Seems these days alot of x-tians are seeking out confrontation, even going as far as becoming the assailant, in order to be blessed by some make believe dude who most likely didn’t even exist beyond the pages of a 2000 yr old religious text.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SJBBJEJBGBJJWLOOF6EK4WM7GE Berry

      These elected officials were breaking the law. They have already been told by a judge not to hold public prayers in this manner. Why are they not all being prosecuted for breaking the law? Why are they allowed to continue to hold office?

  • Billy the Atheist

    This is truly pathetic. What has happened to the constitution in this country when these atrocities take place in a SENATE MEETING? The ones who are really going to be paying for this now are Christians as this will further be used to define Christians as a whole. I’m sure Jesus will be proud of these men. ;)

  • Billy the Atheist

    This is truly pathetic. What has happened to the constitution in this country when these atrocities take place in a SENATE MEETING? The ones who are really going to be paying for this now are Christians as this will further be used to define Christians as a whole. I’m sure Jesus will be proud of these men. ;)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C5AKM2QTHZAE267QH6T4N2TYLM Psychedelic

    Uzis for eyeballs? This fundie is pissed.

    Fuck your religion and fuck your violence to support it.

  • Laknsion

    8/10
    Decent responses, but more rage inducing content.

  • Melganis

    you fell pretty hard for the Trolling here guys :P….you’re all ample Troll bait ^_^……but yeah, this was just wrong….can’t believe shit like this still happens in our country….but I know many Christians that would be abhorred by this too, this is the radical face of Christianity, just like every religion has it’s radical set… it does not account for the whole, No, I’m not religious, I’m an Apatheist.

  • IAMB

    Couldn’t agree more. Its quite ironic that the religious group that claims they are persecuted the most are the ones who are most apt to persecute others based on lack of belief. What did that hebrew carpenter say, “Blessed are those who are persecuted in my name” or “Blessed are those who persecute in my name?” Seems these days alot of x-tians are seeking out confrontation, even going as far as becoming the assailant, in order to be blessed by some make believe dude who most likely didn’t even exist beyond the pages of a 2000 yr old religious text.

  • FINDLEY90

    GODDAMN CHRISTIANS SUCH FUCKIN DOUCHBAGS,, THEY DONT ACT MUCH LIKE THERE LITTLE BUDDY FROM THAT BOOK . PEOPLE ARE SUCK ON THIS 2000 YEAR OLD IDEOLOGY WITCH HAVE SOME OK MORALS BUT FORCE LOGIC AWAY FROM THERE ACTIONS AND THEY SHOULD LOCK UP EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED THAT GUY, YOU THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND SOME JACKASS HOLLERING ABOUT JESUS? NO THE ATHEIST’S WOULD JUST LAUGH OR EXPLAIN THE FLAWS IN THERE BELIEFS AND TRY TO REASON. BUT THERE IS NO REASONING WITH DUMBASS CHRISTIANS!

  • FINDLEY90

    GODDAMN CHRISTIANS SUCH FUCKIN DOUCHBAGS,, THEY DONT ACT MUCH LIKE THERE LITTLE BUDDY FROM THAT BOOK . PEOPLE ARE SUCK ON THIS 2000 YEAR OLD IDEOLOGY WITCH HAVE SOME OK MORALS BUT FORCE LOGIC AWAY FROM THERE ACTIONS AND THEY SHOULD LOCK UP EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED THAT GUY, YOU THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND SOME JACKASS HOLLERING ABOUT JESUS? NO THE ATHEIST’S WOULD JUST LAUGH OR EXPLAIN THE FLAWS IN THERE BELIEFS AND TRY TO REASON. BUT THERE IS NO REASONING WITH DUMBASS CHRISTIANS!

    • Kyla

      now, i completely agree with what you are trying to say, however, by using that type of anger and name calling you are only stooping down to that same level. Use knowledge and reason to get your point across, it works much better.

      • Bobthebiulder

        NO Findley is rite is time to stop being nice. time to fight fire with fire. I for one I’m sick to death of listening to these fucking morons telling me that they are better than me; they have no brain on way of thinking for them self’s, they just hide behind their stupid book of fables. The Earth would be a much better place without them.

  • Liz

    People are so fucking stupid; just because a large group of people all believe or follow in the same thing doesn’t make it right or just. There should be a law against stupid people.

  • Liz

    People are so fucking stupid; just because a large group of people all believe or follow in the same thing doesn’t make it right or just. There should be a law against stupid people.

    • tony

      yes – stupid people like yourself who refuse to ask God for help

      • Stuart

        yes sure thing – are they stupid because they don’t believe in things like the world was made by god (in the dark) 4,000 years ago. Do you believe that carbon dating of fossils is flawed ?

        is the ‘big bang’ just the name of some show on tv ?

        • APR

          Alas, the Big Bang may be the creation theory of the Church of Science. Why does there have to be a beginning? Who cares? We should spend time on building a better future, not waste billions of hours and dollars speculating about the past.

          • anti-APR

            church of science? this is the silliest thing I have ever read, science is merely the better understanding of our world through careful observation. Well apparently you care, because if the only theory is the one in Genesis then a jealous all powerful being, whoops thats too silly to actually exist, built the universe in six days and had a nap on the seventh.

          • Quais

            By saying Church of Science, I think APR means that people follow so called ‘skeptical scientists’ blindly sometimes… just about, if not as blindly as religions. Which is true, it isn’t silly, silly.

            “Oh, he’s a scientist and worked at the Stanford Research Institute for TEN years, he has a PHD! He MUST know what he’s talking about.” *drooooool*

            Just because a person is called a scientist, doesn’t mean they aren’t a complete and utter liar and have alterior motives…

          • Shanabell69

            it is silly. Most atheists dont claim that science has all the answers either. It is looking for them which isnt blind at all. Religion is blind as they come! How can you prove something written thousands of years ago? You cant! At least with science you can do experiments yourself and find the truth!

          • Shanabell69

            SCIENCE ISNT A CHURCH! we dont rely on faith as religion does. We rely on proven substantiated facts and the evidence to support it. Not some holy text from thousands of years ago!

          • Whatever41

            Personally, I think arguing Science vs. Religion completely misses the point (and Science is far from perfect – many “truths” found with the Scientific Method end up getting rejected, frankly Scientists have been struggling a lot recently realizing that a lot of their scientific “beliefs” are being contradicted). But really, acknowledging the problems that Science isn’t meant to discredit Science and make Religion look better by comparison, it’s instead to acknowledge the fact that Truth is really hard to get at, and that you really just have to be constantly reexamining your beliefs and not allow yourself to fall prey to hubris. From what I can see, you can’t remove “faith” entirely from the equation – Science relies on faith too, but a different kind of faith than religion. Religion proceeds on blind faith – and the more “blindly” you believe, the greater the perceived “moral” victory (supposedly) – for many religious people they believe that they earn merit for believing unbelievable things. So that too, is a kind of hubris. Science really can’t “prove” most facts, but it can try to keep an open mind, and that’s what the scientific method tries to do – the kind of faith that science uses is this – believe what appears to be true only as long as it still appears to be true. So science is really faith too – but faith with skepticism.

      • APR

        If you have to “ask God” you are doing something wrong.

      • Andre Zenigma

        Many have asked and received no answer ever. I never ask for anything and still get what I need and I’m a Freethinker who does not believe in believing. Believing is for the ignorant

        • Zel

          Believing in something is ignorant?

      • Shanabell69

        you need to shut your mouth with your holier than thou atitude. MAYBE YOUR NOT RIGHT!?! think about it … the world ISNT the center of the universe and if there is a god he certainly doesnt have time for our petty existance or whether or not we believe in him. If he exists he hasnt done a good job as god. All the wars throughout history have been due to religion in one way or the other. Early Christians believed it was okay to own black people because they said they were cursed decendants of Cain. Well guess what??? Science says we all come from a black women. Think about that…. and get back to me w an answer cause it seems that if christianity is right it would have ALWAYS been right but it hasnt. Its been proven wrong time and time again. People actually believe that the earth is 6000 years old STILL! Even with substantial proof to the contrary. How many times can a religion be proven WRONG before people realize it? Its always the slow to react ones that stick to the teachings they learned as small children. Did you ever think that hell was just a way to SCARE little children and slow adults into believing? Probley not…wouldnt want to burn in hell! LMAO

        • Zel

          First off, slaves were used in every culture. And in fact, not all slaves were African/African-American. That is pure human ignorance, nothing to do with God or religion. And there is nowhere in the Bible that says early Christians owned slaves because of Cain? First, they weren’t Christian they practiced Judaism. Second, everyone came from a “black woman”? Can you explain that to me please? And third, religion is a way to scare little children and ‘slow adults” into believing in hell? What were you taught as a child? Seems you need to get your facts straight. Religion has been corrupted by MAN not by God. Learn who to blame.

          • Shanabell69

            religion is a PRODUCT OF MAN! what the hell do u think its from? Man wrote the bible right? I was raised Babtist and i know what christianity is and the teachings of the church. So you are going to tell me that Early Americans didnt own slaves?? That is ignoranance to think otherwise. The PROOF you are looking for that we all came from a Black woman can be found in our geneome. Science has PROVEN that. You cannot argue with a substantiated fact. Religion has always been the downfall of man and it always will be unless Athiest stand up and speak the TRUTH. Have you even read the Old Testiment???? It is so contridictory to the New Testiment it almost would take a retard to not notice. I know that it isnt in the bible that Cains decendants are black that is my point!!!! Christians will say anything as fact whether it is or not. Judaism is a religion and it is evil the same as Christianity. So dont try to twist the shit or change the subject to fit your arguements cause that is all you have done. You need to reread what i initially wrote cause you obviously misinterpreted everything i said. Why are you putting black women in quotations? ….. just nevermind you are too low on the intellectual scale to even argue with.

    • Zel

      Same can be applied to evolution.

      • zelol

        evolution has physical testable evidence backing it up. You have a 3000 year old book that says we are all sinful because some skank named eve ate from the wrong fucking apple tree.

  • dddjjj

    troll is troll, open ya eyes

  • Pingback: Atheist Speakers Assaulted at Hawaii State Capital for Objecting to Senate Prayer - VolNation

  • C D Cyerz

    The grossest and most obvious violation of the Constitution ever caught on camera.

  • C D Cyerz

    The grossest and most obvious violation of the Constitution ever caught on camera.

  • C D Cyerz

    The grossest and most obvious violation of the Constitution ever caught on camera.

    • tony

      go and look up the consitution and tell me where it says you can’t pray at government meetings…

      • rabidsloth

        Look up the separation of church and state. No government may endorse a religion.

        • APR

          Exactly. Why don’t they give equal time to Satan? Better yet, what about an anti-theist speech?

          • anti-APR

            no anti-theist, ATHEIST. anti-theist means against god, atheist means no god.

            they dont give equal time to satan because satan doesn’t have a billion strong cult. The government should not be connected to religion in any way.

          • runujhkj

            I think that’s what he was saying. You may have missed the sarcastic point.

          • Iamroont

            no, actually, anti-theist is against THEISM! against RELIGION. Which I proudly am.

        • Andrew

          “Separation of church and state” was a comment made by the illustrious Thomas Jefferson. It has no weight of compulsion. Try again

        • Gdodd414

          The concept of “Separation of Church and State is clearly NOT in the US Constitution. It was actually started as a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802. The Separation of Church and State is NOT a part of the US Constitution.

          • Malcolmembree

            Although not in the constitution secularism was certainly a main tenet of the founding fathers. “One Nation Under God” wasn’t added until 1954.
            Here’s a quote from George Washington from the Treaty of Tripoli “As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has itslef no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranguility against any musslemen…”
            Also there is trong evidence that Thomas Jefferson was an atheist. Also in articel VI “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

            At any rate the point is that while the very term “seperation of church and state” wasn’t used until 1802, it still existed. All in all it should be kept from any public office and the man had the right to protest.

          • Raybutlers

            “one Nation Under God” was never added to anything

          • Patssox1002

            Uh oh…looks like it was added in 1954 to the Pledge of Allegiance.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_the_words_.22under_God.22

          • Zel

            Thank you.

          • Shanabell69

            that letter was put into the constitution by Thomas Jefferson!!!

          • Massie16

            yes it is read the bill of rights

          • John

            The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. Happy now?

        • Zel

          Than why does our money say, “IN GOD WE TRUST?” If, as you claim the original constitution was written to separate church and state.

          • Andrew

            Because Money is god.

          • Massie16

            They added that in during the civil war our money used to say Liberty instead

          • Raybutlers

            slippery slope. This is the God Conspiracy trying to force religion on the rest of us. Successfully it seems.

          • rabidsloth

            damn double post

          • rabidsloth

            Because a group of Catholics (I think) campaigned to get it on our money, in the 1860s

      • Sassafras

        You’re right, it’s expressly states in the Constitution tony. However, unfortunately for you, it has been ruled on multiple times in the United States Supreme Court, with a unanimous court (sometimes with the exception of Justice Stewart whose arguments quite plainly displayed he let personal bias effect his better judgment). See Engel v. Vitale, or School Dist. of Abington TWP., Pennsylvania v. Schempp.

        ps- Who do you think wrote the Constitution of the United States? O yeah, James Madison assisted by…Thomas Jerfferson. Madison was well known for saying “..it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties.”

        There, I showed you. Enjoy :)

        • Sassafras

          it doesnt expressly state* somehow that got jumbled up

      • Shanabell69

        SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! clear as day in the constitution! That is why the guy that got assulted actually WON!!!! You are a piece of work and need to do your damn research or get the hell out of America cause you are NOT American at all!

        • Zel

          Well, of course he won, with a corrupt government. But, bring him to court for not paying taxes and they will hang him.

          • Shanabell69

            the guy won because the JUDGE followed the LAW! It would be corrupt if he DIDNT win! That is retarded!

          • dizzy

            “Well, of course he won, with a corrupt government.” <——seriously? i'm not even gonna touch that.

            the point here is, and no one can deny, that the way these men were treated is completely unacceptable. it was a bitch move, god or no god.

      • Shanabell69

        listen IT IS PART OF THE CONSTITUTION SO YOU LOOK IT UP! Noone owes you an explination anyway. The guy was found NOT GUILTY! That is proof in itself he had a right to stand up and speak out. CHURCH is the ONLY place anyone should have to listen to prayer. Its not like there arnt TONS of churches to go to if you want to pray! IT is against human law to be forced to listen to prayer in a state house. What if they were praying to ALAH. Same god supposedly

      • Massie16

        “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

      • Raybutlers

        the first amendment

    • Shanabell69

      i agree! i say that athiest need to show up more in those meetings and speak up!

  • Anonymous

    Now, are they going to truly press charges against these unconstitutional scofflaws? As they were bring assaulted illegally, did not not occur to anyone to defend themselves? For certain I wold have and it would have been very ugly.

    I sincerely hope there is a follow-up t tis and it shows some of this people going to jail.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

    Now, are they going to truly press charges against these unconstitutional scofflaws? As they were bring assaulted illegally, did not not occur to anyone to defend themselves? For certain I wold have and it would have been very ugly.

    I sincerely hope there is a follow-up t tis and it shows some of this people going to jail.

  • fastertortoise2

    Masturbation is a sin- you go to hell for ever and ever. Masturbating with your left hand is even more sinful and you go to hell for ever and ever. Masturbating with your mother’s underwear on your head is kinky, yet sinful. You would go to hell for ever and ever.
    You’ve gotta love the deterence factor in christianity.

    There is a reason why i have used masturbation as an example, it’s because the whole christian synthesis is unhealthily obsessed with it- I’m not obsessed with it at all, i’ll just do it when i feel like (minus the underwear of course). Yes, i am a wanker. I am normal.

  • Jizlemn

    opinions are like a-holes they usaully stink, and im guessin that you’ve been living under a rock because you’re saying atheists are pedophiles. what about the christian priests touching little boys.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SJBBJEJBGBJJWLOOF6EK4WM7GE Berry

    This was a disgrace and a deep insult to every constituent who is not a believer in the Christian version of god, or who does not believe in the existence of any god.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SJBBJEJBGBJJWLOOF6EK4WM7GE Berry

    This was a disgrace and a deep insult to every constituent who is not a believer in the Christian version of god, or who does not believe in the existence of any god.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SJBBJEJBGBJJWLOOF6EK4WM7GE Berry

    These elected officials were breaking the law. They have already been told by a judge not to hold public prayers in this manner. Why are they not all being prosecuted for breaking the law? Why are they allowed to continue to hold office?

  • Wiccan

    That’s fucking horrible, I hate Americans!
    They don’t fucking realize that there are MORE THAN ONE religion, and the whole fucking world does NOT revolve around the bloody Bible!

  • Wiccan

    That’s fucking horrible, I hate Americans!
    They don’t fucking realize that there are MORE THAN ONE religion, and the whole fucking world does NOT revolve around the bloody Bible!

    • Goob

      Those protesters were Americans too, though. Don’t forget about the Americans who don’t think that the world revolves around the Bible.

    • Andy

      Goob has the right idea! Don’t get down on us because our retarded older brother found the microphone on the worlds PA system! America still has some sane folk!

  • Nw15062

    The tattered fabric of democracy is unraveling, It pains me to see how far we are falling.

  • Nw15062

    The tattered fabric of democracy is unraveling, It pains me to see how far we are falling.

    • Jeeemeister

      No…here is where you are wrong. It’s the TATTERED FABRIC of RELIGION that is unraveling…and the reason why is obvious. People are waking up, becoming educated, and learning to ignore religion’s lie.

      Jeeemeister

  • Goob

    Those protesters were Americans too, though. Don’t forget about the Americans who don’t think that the world revolves around the Bible.

  • bob

    this is what religion is??
    i say FUCK RELIGION IT MAKES YOU GODDAMN STUPID!!! FOR FUCK SAKE!

    • Marco

      It’s not the religion guys .. it’s the the people

      • dbgvkj;

        no dude. It’s totally the religion.

      • rob

        it’s both

  • bob

    this is what religion is??
    i say FUCK RELIGION IT MAKES YOU GODDAMN STUPID!!! FOR FUCK SAKE!

  • Add on FB Tyler Buchanan

    Seriously, What they are doing is just as bad as Hitler and the killing of the jews. They Assault and Beat a man because of his different views. The constitution declares that there is seperation of church and state and this praying in senate have gone on long enough.

  • Add on FB Tyler Buchanan

    Seriously, What they are doing is just as bad as Hitler and the killing of the jews. They Assault and Beat a man because of his different views. The constitution declares that there is seperation of church and state and this praying in senate have gone on long enough.

  • lordbutz

    you are sooooo right!! i should become a priest and molest children in the name of GOD. then, and only then would my purpose on this earth be fulfilled.

  • http://twitter.com/ohgodohwatohgod Holley

    “Seriously, What they are doing is just as bad as Hitler and the killing of the jews.”
    What you are doing is as bad as Glenn Beck. You don’t have to make ridiculous hyperbole, the video speaks for itself.

  • http://twitter.com/ohgodohwatohgod Holley

    “Seriously, What they are doing is just as bad as Hitler and the killing of the jews.”
    What you are doing is as bad as Glenn Beck. You don’t have to make ridiculous hyperbole, the video speaks for itself.

  • Nunya

    Isn’t that called Intelligent Design? Oh wait… never mind, those people are pretty stupid as well.

  • Marco

    It’s not the religion guys .. it’s the the people

  • Nate

    I don’t know about you, but I love atheists in a non platonic way.

  • Pyrolisk

    This actually made me sick to my stomach

  • Pyrolisk

    This actually made me sick to my stomach

  • http://twitter.com/ShawnBakerNS Shawn baker

    This actually made me sick to my stomach

  • http://twitter.com/ShawnBakerNS Shawn baker

    This actually made me sick to my stomach

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for that eloquent proclamation of Christian “values”. What you value is vile.

  • dbgvkj;

    lol

  • dbgvkj;

    no dude. It’s totally the religion.

  • J.

    Not only are you vastly misinformed, but your grammar makes me sad.

    I don’t have the time to rant about how awful people like you are. Today is my day to drug and rape children, and you’re spoiling it.

  • Rkrawitz

    no your wrong all of your preist are the pedophiles

  • rob

    it’s both

  • Shibbylow555

    I’m sorry but what the hell? Going in to this meeting for the purpose of shouting during a prayer is retarded. Did the prayer harm you, I mean honestly was it that offensive to you that you couldn’t sit there and listen as a PASTOR gives a prayer. I mean that’s like his fucking job. I hope it was worth the time and effort. This is just stupid your just asking to get thrown out when you incite stupid shit like this. You live in a country full of Christians people are gonna pray. So what it goes against the constitution who gives a flying fuck. You wanna fight some injustice go address violence or the corrupt ass senators in office, not prayer. I mean wtf go fight something that matters man it’s pisses me off how many fucking idiots live in this country. Fight against injustice, the pastor was giving a prayer trying to bless everyone’s fucking day. “God please give us a good day” that pisses you off? Stop being such a bitch and do something useful, get arrested for inciting a riot or something its a lot more hardcore.

    • The D

      So, you don’t view government officials blatantly violating one of the fundamental pillars of government to be an offense worthy of objection?
      They weren’t protesting the pastor. They were protesting the people giving the finger to one of the most important parts of preventing this country from putting people in jail for what they do or do not believe.

      • Bebebe

        Hear, hear!

    • Kyla

      Just because majority of people have beliefs in a certain religion doesnt mean that the rest of us have to follow along with it. It is only fair to everyone, whether youre christian, jewish, buddhist, atheist, or anything at all that there IS a separation of church and state. There is no need for name calling as it only shows that you are the one that is intolerant of other beliefs. Just like ‘The D’ said, these people were not protesting the Pastor they were trying to show that in a public arena of discussion there should not be a bias towards a certain religion. If people of religion would like to pray, then by all means, go ahead. But requiring that everyone do the same, or abusing someone because they have different beliefs is WRONG. It is naive to think that every single person has to just follow along with a religion just because it is the majority. Religion and prayer is something that should be private and something you do for yourself, not something to show off or impinge on other people. The point of religion is not to hurt others or downgrade them because of their beliefs, the point is to join together in peace to help spread love and happiness. Stop hating on everyone else and start accepting the fact that we live in a very DIVERSE world.

    • Jet

      your not only stupid but ignorant too. christians can’t rule the world any more…there is no GOD, it was a made up story and not even a very good one.

      • AndrewChristensen

        lol, sounds like *someone* is trying to convince themselves of something. Must be a hard life having to constantly attack other peoples ideology because yours is hollow and fruitless

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7PX5RLBOJ4FVZVNVL2IDW5HXII Miguel Matias

          You know atheist and Christians can be the two most annoying and stupid groups in the world. One side wants everyone to believe in God and the other wants everyone to believe there is no God and the both oppress the rights of people if I want to fucking pray I should be able to pray. If I want to pray to Krishna it should be okay. If I want to decorate for halloween or christmas it should be okay. Your both fucking assholes and both should be forced to tolerate others religions and ideas before there let out in to the world

          • http://canuck45.myopenid.com/ Andrea

            You are right, you can do all those things. However when you come into my shared home (the senate) you cannot force your beliefs on me. Since I beleive in no divine being or evil worship, then I would like you to do nothing at hallowe’en and Christmas. Please tolerate my ideas and religion and follow my tenets as you request others do.

          • Shanabell69

            not in a public government meeting which is what this whole debate is about

          • Shanabell69

            im already being forced to tolerate others views so i dont know what the hell you are trying to say. I was raised baptist and am now agnostic, almost athiest but i have no proof that there ISNT a god so ill stick to i dont know…thats my church … the church of I DONT KNOW!

        • Bob

          Reality is only hollow and fruitless to those who have never experienced it. The burden of proof is on you – everything about your belief system is based on conjecture, assumptions, and the superstitious ramblings of an ancient cult formed by political dissenters and proto-socialists. FAITH is no substitute for reality – just ask Mr. Obama.

          In other words, the only thing christians have is their faith, and that doesn’t count for jack shit in reality. I can understand the hippy dippy “love thy neighbor” tenets – after all, humans are social animals. The egotistical heaven, judgement day and prayer crap, on the other hand, is really just foolish, not to mention DESTRUCTIVE to the rest of society.

          Now, by all means, I’m not saying you shouldn’t worship the god of your choosing, that’s a personal decision. Legislate superstition, though, and you deserve every single bit of persecution you bring down upon yourselves. Nero probably fed you guys to the lions because he was sick of all the “God Hates Fags” protesters at Legionnaire funerals. The reason people hate christians isn’t necessarily because of your beliefs – it’s because you’re a bunch of entitled fucking assholes who think the whole world was made for you. News flash – it NEVER WAS. Even in the Torah (or pentateuch if you’re catholic, or “the parts I don’t read cuz theres too many damn joos” if you’re evangelical), there’s nary a mention of any christian traditions that aren’t originally judaic – and a lot of things that you guys DON’T follow. It’d kinda be cool if it WERE real, just to see the look on the average christian’s face when god looks at the sheer volume of bacon and shrimp they’ve eaten and said “Uh Oh – unclean! Straight to hell for you! Do not pass purgatory, do not collect 200 shekels.”

          Besides, if Big Joe created the world 6000 years ago, wouldn’t the Sumerians and Egyptians (specifically the badari) have noticed it, considering that their civilization had already been well established for at least a millennium? Besides, everyone knows the earth is really only 56 years old.

          • laughing@Bob

            Atheism is not “the ideology of reality”. It is an ideology of the FAITH BASED PRESUMPTION that metaphysics is non-existent or at least does not have any overall meaning. It is hollow and fruitless in the sense that in order to fully accept it to its logical limits you must admit that there is no such thing as objective justice or meaning to life.

            Burden of proof is a scientific tenet, not a logical tenet. Things aren’t “false until proven true”.

            Heaven, judgment, and prayer are extremely positive concepts for society as long as they are pursued with broader more rational concepts from scripture. Countless scientific advancements were made by people who believed in these concepts.

            Faith means plenty in reality. You obviously know nothing about Pragmatism. Faith improves the quality of life for billions of people by increasing their perceived happiness.

            Also, the reason people hate Atheists IS because of their belief AND because their entitled fucking assholes who think the whole world revolves around them. By the way, if you knew anything about more traditional christian denominations you’d understand their arguments for ignoring parts of the Torah.

            Funny how you assume I’m Christian when I didn’t say anything to that effect. I’m actually an Agnostic with Deist leanings. I just shit on Atheists because they are the most blind, annoying, hateful group behind only the most extremist Muslim or Christian. At least Christians and Muslims come in degrees, ALL Atheists seem extremist

          • anti-apr

            “It is an ideology of the FAITH BASED PRESUMPTION that metaphysics is non-existent or at least does not have any overall meaning. It is hollow and fruitless in the sense that in order to fully accept it to its logical limits you must admit that there is no such thing as objective justice or meaning to life.”

            religion and spirituality are not synonyms.

            I dont care if you believe in a god and a savior, all I care about is that these people cuase more problems with their belief then fix. Now i will not say that atheists are always the nicest people, but i personally am open to understanding both arguemntents, but I am have to find a discussion that explains how a ‘god’ gives you meaning in life, not without seeming like i am some P.O.S slave of the universe.

            Now im not hating on you personally, i dont know you, but to say that all atheists are a hatefukl bunch of jerks is like saying all muslims are terrorists.

            religion was good at one point, now it is not helpful

          • Andrew

            I didn’t compare religion to spirituality, I compared Atheism to rejection of metaphysics.

            There are many arguments for how God gives meaning to life. I don’t really accept most of them. From my perspective religion gives a far less arbitrary idea of a meaning to life than atheism could (I would argue that Atheism is by nature either relativist or nihilist) and from a deist “clockmaker” perspective I would argue that considering the creator made the universe in a way that humans, to our knowledge, have the most control over the form of the universe compared to other beings that humans naturally have some value. Given that humanity and individual human life is valuable it seems necessary to create a code of ethics around this concept. Why would it matter what some “creator” thinks though? I liken it to a computer program. If God created the program then his definitions make up the fabric of the universe, so things that are programmed as “good” are necessarily good according to the program and things programmed as “evil” are necessarily evil. In this way it matters little how we feel about the programming or Gods intention for writing it in a certain way because the program is already written and motivation will not change the programming.

            Of course, it is possible there is no God and even if he exists he may not attribute any special value to human life. I place faith in the existence of God and use strong, albeit imperfect, logic to derive value for human life from the state of his creation. On the flip-side an Atheist could place faith on the non-existence of God and choose something arbitrary like the evolutionary drive for self-preservation to place value on their lives then use some mental gymnastics to somehow export value of their own lives from that to some moral code of overall value for human life but that all involves much more arbitration and poor logic so I’d rather choose Occam’s Razor in this case (even if it is a fallacious tool of logic in itself).

            Anyway, religion ALWAYS has the potential to help just like it has the potential to hurt. The same applies to Atheism which could help by streamlining scientific procedure but could hurt by inspiring apathy in people who might be crushed by depression by the thought of their impending erasure from existence and consciousness. People get it in their heads that religion stands in the way of scientific progress and that they are two sides of a coin where only one face could win out in a toss but this is patently untrue. Take the case of Isaac Newton for example, he was one of the greatest scientists of the last millennium but he wrote more books about religion than he did about science/mathematics. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, the true theist would be excited by science as a window into the intricacies of God’s creation. Simpler theists choose to reject science as a threat to religion and wallow in their blissful ignorance (which is pragmatic in an individual sense but hurtful on a societal sense if they choose to compel this view on others).

          • Tomjordan

            Let’s just say, for sake of argument, that i believed in the goat herding sand monkey zombie savior too. I still don’t think we should waste time at public meetings with it. It’s personal, and should be.

          • Shanabell69

            burden of proof is VERY logical and what is illogical is believing whole heartedly in a book or scrolls really, from thousands of years ago with NO substantiated proof AT ALL

          • Andrew

            No, burden of proof is NOT logical. Burden of proof assumes things false before they are proven true. This sentiment is illogical because proving something doesn’t MAKE it true, it just SHOWS that they are true. People who believed the world was round before it was proven to be round were CORRECT logically and factually, but incorrect according to the science of the time because it had yet to be proven. As you can see, being scientifically incorrect does not mean that something is actually incorrect and thus assuming people are objectively wrong when they have yet to prove something is illogical.

          • Newt

            Soooo – high school graduate, or liberal arts major? You’re not a science major, that’s for sure…

          • Iamroont

            Well, if throughout history atheist have been burned to death and worse, it was IMPOSSIBLE to say that you didnt believe in god without putting your life in danger in the past. Now that we’ve moved past that and atheists actually have a voice and can use it, we’re going to fucking use it.

    • bmac

      Here’s the deal – not everyone has the respect for Pastors that you so obviously do. To a lot of people, they’re just glorified storytellers. So to interrupt a “PASTOR” (as you just had to put in caps) is like interrupting that guy from Blues’ Clues.

      Yes, we live in a country full of Christians who are going to pray, and I defend their right to do this – in the privacy of their places of worship and/or home. How would you feel if there was a Jewish blessing at the beginning of this assembly? Or how about a Muslim address? I feel like your reaction would be slightly different.

      It all boils down to accountability. Either you believe in the strength of the Constitution, or you don’t. Period. If you want this country to make it any farther, ALL religion has to be eradicated from the political process. Sure, religion does define some people, and the way they make decisions, but it should not be their cornerstone in the political arena.

      What ever happened to reason and logic?

      Who is John Galt?

      • Tom

        Please show me where in the constitution it talks about separation of church and state?

        • William-P

          The first paragraph I believe… it does not say ‘…seperation of chruch and state’ but it has been generally implied and accepted for centuries that is what it actually means.

        • Pete

          “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof…” 1st Amendment.

          Separation of church and state was first coined by Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802, and was adopted into several Supreme Court cases, meaning that we have interpreted the 1st Amendment to mean that there is a separation, and this has become a widely accepted. If for some strange reason, a court case came up and our justices decide to overturn this precedence, then you might be able to get rid of separation of church and state, but for now it stands as law.

          If you want even more information go look it up on Wikipedia. Or one of many sites dedicated to the first amendment. I’m sure you’ll find more info than you ever want to know.

          • Andrew

            Funny, I didn’t realize that the Hawaii State Legislature was now the Federal “Congress” referred to in that amendment

          • Newt

            Oh come ON. Yes, so next week? When Michigan declares itself an Islamic state, that’s fine right? Buttmonkey. If it weren’t for the Feds, we wouldn’t have Hawaii as a state at all.

            If you want to split hairs to the point of retardation, it doesn’t specifically EXCLUDE Hawaii’s state legislature either, as in “…Except for Hawaii. They can do christian prayers at the start of meetings and hire ex-boxers to punch innocent cameramen.” …since there’s no specific provision for that, I guess we can assume it’s illegal under the usual assault and separation of state laws.

          • Skreeran

            And don’t forget about the fourteenth amendment, which made the Bill of Rights applicable to the States.

        • Kira

          Nowhere, which is why this poor guy who got punched in the face did not say anything about “separation of church and state”. What the constitution DOES say is that the government cannot “promote or prohibit” any religion. You can go hear that pastor pray every Sunday if you’d like, but it is a violation of the constitution for him to be supporting religion in the Hawaii state legislature.

          • Andrew

            ….nowhere in the First Amendment is there a reference to STATE legislatures. It’s only about Congress not making laws referencing religion, not State legislatures. Have you even READ the First Amendment?

          • Bob

            Actually, the Supreme Court has ruled that it DOES apply to the States. See Everson v. Board of Education.

          • Andrew

            The Supreme Court was never given the ability to decide the constitutionality of legislation by the Constitution. Marbury vs. Madison was a power grab by the Supreme Court that allows them to dictate policy with no check/balance. Thomas Jefferson, a major influence on the form of the constitution, was disgusted by the implications of the case.

            Regardless, just because the Supreme Court SAYS it is unconstitutional doesn’t mean it actually IS unconstitutional. Again, have you even READ the First Amendment? If you did you’d realize that the Supreme Court has no real grounds for calling such an act unconstitutional and is actually breaking the constitution by making such decisions. Using precedent is a broken system because it assumes the precedent cases were legitimate in the first place, next time try to speak to the source material. Tou can even borrow the source material arguments from that specific case if you want. You’ll still be wrong

          • deeg

            You have posted all over this board, and each post is more ignorant than the last. Have you ever heard of incorporation? The Bill of Rights was clearly ruled to apply to both federal and state action. This has been tested and retried over and over again and still holds up to this day. The amendments in the bill of rights apply to state action, period. In this case, that means the endorsement of Christianity by the Hawaii state legislature is unconstitutional.

          • Andrew

            Incorporation is OBVIOUSLY unconstitutional according to the tenth Amendment unless in cases that CLEARLY restrict the rights of citizens. People praying at a legislative meeting in no way restricts anyone’s rights and is thus the legitimate form of the doctrine of incorporation does not apply to this case. Your ignorance and lack of logic are so blatant I’m surprised you mustered the balls to even post knowing how ashamed you must be in the lack of substance in your post.

          • Shanabell69

            The founding of the United States of America took place in 1787 with the signing of the Constitution, which is a purely secular document. In relation to religion the Constitution states:

            Article VI: Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
            The founding of the United States of America took place in 1787 with the signing of the Constitution, which is a purely secular document. In relation to religion the Constitution states:

            Article VI: Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
            THIS IS WHY THE MAN WAS FOUND INNOCENT! IT CLEARLY STATES THAT RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN POLITICS! WE AS AMERICANS NEED TO UPHOLD OUR CONSTITUTION ABOVE THEISTS SPECULATIONS.

          • Zel

            Must be easy to copy and paste others ideas. And I thought atheist thought for themselves!

          • Marcodbeast

            Nonsense reply.

          • Andrew

            …that does not clearly state anything to that effect. All it does is say that no office can require a religious test. Having a prayer during a state assembly is not illegal according to the Constitution. Anybody with a high school level of reading comprehension could see that

          • Marcodbeast

            Tell it to the judge.

          • Shanabell69

            There is often debate about what exactly the First Amendment means, however, in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Thomas Jefferson made clear that the purpose of the First Amendment was to establish a “wall of separation” between Church and State in order to protect individuals’ right of conscience:

            Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
            heres MORE proof

          • Andrew

            …Jefferson wasn’t directly involved in the crafting of the Constitution. Also, his use of “state” in the letter was referencing the national government.

          • Shanabell69

            no it isnt have YOU ever read the constitution? I have! and it CLEARLY states it is a violation

          • Massie16

            The constitution is the supreme law of the land it supercedes the states

        • Brianh1903

          first amendment

        • Shanabell69

          Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.[17] also, Another early user of the term was James Madison, the principal drafter of the United States Bill of Rights. In a 1789 debate in the House of Representatives regarding the draft of the First Amendment, the following was said:

          August 15, 1789. Mr. [Peter] Sylvester [of New York] had some doubts…He feared it [the First Amendment] might be thought to have a tendency to abolish religion altogether…Mr. [Elbridge] Gerry [of Massachusetts] said it would read better if it was that “no religious doctrine shall be established by law.”…Mr. [James] Madison [of Virginia] said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that “Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law.”…[T]he State[s]…seemed to entertain an opinion that under the clause of the Constitution…it enabled them [Congress] to make laws of such a nature as might…establish a national religion; to prevent these effects he presumed the amendment was intended…Mr. Madison thought if the word “National” was inserted before religion, it would satisfy the minds of honorable gentlemen…He thought if the word “national” was introduced, it would point the amendment directly to the object it was intended to prevent.[18]

      • Shibbylow555

        You know what I’m tired of? Americans who bitch about every little thing. At least you live in a country where you can pray or practice any religion you please. (or lack there off) You know if you pulled this shit in an Islamic theocracy they would have stoned you. Then you’d have nothing to bitch about you’d just be dead. Not because it was just or fair, just because that’s the way it is. Instead of bitching and moaning all the time you should be thankful for the rights you do have because compared to a lot of the world you’ve got it good.

        • http://canuck45.myopenid.com/ Andrea

          And we have this right because we fought for it. So some ‘christian’ morons want to take us back to the dark ages, appealing to a mystical being for answers. Tell me the difference between that and an Islamic theocracy. Crazies are crazies no matter what their religion, and it doesn’t belong in state business.

        • Surrealias

          I think you’re speaking to the majority of white people in america, wtf… you sound just as bitchy as the rest to me!

          Go tell that shit to the native Hawaiins, or to a congregation of black people in Kentucky. Cause they’ve had so much freedom of religion, eh?! Go try doing a muslim or haitian prayer in down-town texas or arizona. Then come chat about freedom of religion in america.

          • Massie16

            your texas bashing offends me

        • Shanabell69

          thats what it will lead to if the christians had their way! They would stone all nonbelievers cause it says to do so in their holy text!

          • Zel

            Again, where are you getting your facts? Or is this pure ignorance, again.

          • Marcodbeast

            See ‘R. J. Rushdoony’, ‘Gary North’

          • Massie16

            Its in Leviticus. PLEASE READ THE BOOK YOU BASE YOUR LIFE ON

          • Tre

            Seriously? Ignorance is limited to religious people I see. Read John 8:1-30.

      • Stocc

        When you say “that guy from Blues’ Clues” do you mean Joe or Steve?

        • runujhkj

          Does anyone ever mean Joe?

          Fuck Joe.

      • Freethinker855

        @ bmac…I couldn’t have said it better myself….bravo!

    • curtis

      I think the real idiot here is someone like yourself that doesn’t see a violation of the constitution as wrong. The issue is not that it doesn’t hurt anybody, the issue is that it violates a document that these people are elected to uphold. You talk about stopping corrupt politicians instead, well what about the corruption that allows for someone who is against a violation of the constitution to be violently silenced for pointing out what should all be so painfully obvious to these people, that opening a political meeting with a prayer is wrong. I think there is a problem in the U.S. because there are people like you that selectively pick and choose what amendments should be upheld and which ones shouldn’t.

    • Wncooney27

      Shibbylow: The reason it is unconstitutional to invoke prayer at a government-sponsored event is that is DOES cause harm and injury. I don’t mean to sound condescending but apparently you do not comprehend the harm that this practice does to everyone else who is not a Christian, or religious, or otherwise just an ordinary citizen. The point is that harm is done by the government sponsoring prayer at a public meeting. Nobody wants to stop people from praying. People are free to pray whenever and wherever they want – on their own time. It should not be an official act of government. They should gather in the hallway or parking lot prior to the event, hold hands if they want, and pray to their hearts content – then enter and have the meeting called to secular order. This process respects everyone. Government cannot be seen as endorsing or favoring any religion because as guarantors of free religious expression, they subvert the very freedoms they are tasked with protecting when they allign themselves with any one religious constituent.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7PX5RLBOJ4FVZVNVL2IDW5HXII Miguel Matias

      I do agree that it was stupid to shout at people praying but it’s fucking ridiculous to do it in a public place like a school when there are people who are not christian being told to pray before the day began. It’d be like praying everyday instead of saying the pledge of allegiance. and you can say “oh well he’s just trying to make every ones day happy so get over it” is fucking stupid if there were more Hindus or Muslims in senate and they made people pray to start a fucking meeting it’s be bullshit.

    • Jbooks

      EXACTLY RIGHT!

    • Newt

      The problem is that this assembly has been asked before to stop it, by a judge, and they *keep* freaking praying before meetings. What *they* are doing is illegal, and when the annoying guy with the ponytail and cargo shorts objected to it, they had him roughed up and incarcerated.

      Where they got off socking and jailing the cameraguy I have no idea. That bit’s just seriously, clearly, unequivocally illegal.

      The moral of this story is, watch out when speaking truth to power. It’s best done anonymously and with a threat behind it (Legal threats like boycotts, of course…)

  • Shibbylow555

    I’m sorry but what the hell? Going in to this meeting for the purpose of shouting during a prayer is retarded. Did the prayer harm you, I mean honestly was it that offensive to you that you couldn’t sit there and listen as a PASTOR gives a prayer. I mean that’s like his fucking job. I hope it was worth the time and effort. This is just stupid your just asking to get thrown out when you incite stupid shit like this. You live in a country full of Christians people are gonna pray. So what it goes against the constitution who gives a flying fuck. You wanna fight some injustice go address violence or the corrupt ass senators in office, not prayer. I mean wtf go fight something that matters man it’s pisses me off how many fucking idiots live in this country. Fight against injustice, the pastor was giving a prayer trying to bless everyone’s fucking day. “God please give us a good day” that pisses you off? Stop being such a bitch and do something useful, get arrested for inciting a riot or something its a lot more hardcore.

  • Vikingelvis

    Hi, troll! :D

  • Yummycars321

    Then forgive us. ;D
    And leave the judging to your “God”.

  • The D

    So, you don’t view government officials blatantly violating one of the fundamental pillars of government to be an offense worthy of objection?
    They weren’t protesting the pastor. They were protesting the people giving the finger to one of the most important parts of preventing this country from putting people in jail for what they do or do not believe.

  • The D

    So, you don’t view government officials blatantly violating one of the fundamental pillars of government to be an offense worthy of objection?
    They weren’t protesting the pastor. They were protesting the people giving the finger to one of the most important parts of preventing this country from putting people in jail for what they do or do not believe.

  • The D

    So, you don’t view government officials blatantly violating one of the fundamental pillars of government to be an offense worthy of objection?
    They weren’t protesting the pastor. They were protesting the people giving the finger to one of the most important parts of preventing this country from putting people in jail for what they do or do not believe.

  • Scot

    God, you’re stupid.

  • Scot

    God, you’re stupid.

  • Scot

    God, you’re stupid.

  • guest

    prayer has no business in government.

  • guest

    prayer has no business in government.

  • Ebudae

    The majority of atheists are paedophiles? You mean unlike all those Catholic priests we keep hearing about.

  • Kyla

    Just because majority of people have beliefs in a certain religion doesnt mean that the rest of us have to follow along with it. It is only fair to everyone, whether youre christian, jewish, buddhist, atheist, or anything at all that there IS a separation of church and state. There is no need for name calling as it only shows that you are the one that is intolerant of other beliefs. Just like ‘The D’ said, these people were not protesting the Pastor they were trying to show that in a public arena of discussion there should not be a bias towards a certain religion. If people of religion would like to pray, then by all means, go ahead. But requiring that everyone do the same, or abusing someone because they have different beliefs is WRONG. It is naive to think that every single person has to just follow along with a religion just because it is the majority. Religion and prayer is something that should be private and something you do for yourself, not something to show off or impinge on other people. The point of religion is not to hurt others or downgrade them because of their beliefs, the point is to join together in peace to help spread love and happiness. Stop hating on everyone else and start accepting the fact that we live in a very DIVERSE world.

  • Kyla

    you’re kidding right?
    way to make an extreme judgment about thousands of people around the world. That type of attitude is the exact reason why some people choose to break away from religious institutions and follow their own type of faith.

  • Kyla

    now, i completely agree with what you are trying to say, however, by using that type of anger and name calling you are only stooping down to that same level. Use knowledge and reason to get your point across, it works much better.

  • Kyla

    now, i completely agree with what you are trying to say, however, by using that type of anger and name calling you are only stooping down to that same level. Use knowledge and reason to get your point across, it works much better.

  • Kyle

    He’s got a point. It was an ineffectual and meaningless gesture. If you want to stop shit like this from happening, if you want to change christian-conservatism in our country, yelling and screaming during their prayers doesn’t help. It makes them feel justified in their beliefs by giving them a tangible evil, present in their lives.

  • Bree

    He’s right to an extent. Yelling and screaming does make them seem childish, but he’s retarded because he’s not looking at the bigger picture.

  • EatTheRich

    There’s an empirical explanation for everything. A belief in a non-existent being is a virus of the mind. It takes over the host and destroys it whilst attempting to spread to other minds.

    All theists should, therefore, be culled. For the good of us all. We can call it rapture if it’ll make you feel any better.

  • EatTheRich

    There’s an empirical explanation for everything. A belief in a non-existent being is a virus of the mind. It takes over the host and destroys it whilst attempting to spread to other minds.

    All theists should, therefore, be culled. For the good of us all. We can call it rapture if it’ll make you feel any better.

  • human

    You are a sad, ignorant, pitiful human being.

  • Andy

    Do I understand correctly that after being shouted at to stop by the cameraman, the RELIGIOUS people who were praying went off and assaulted him? If yelling and screaming is the only way to be heard, or to be taken seriously, I say take some singing lessons so you can yell that much louder. Good for the Cameraman for doing the right thing.

  • Not a Cannibal

    Okay Mr. My-God-is-a-Zombie! Have fun cannibalizing him! :D
    Good to know religious people are still as accepting as they claim to be too! Way to spread the Good Word!

    Also, TROLL.

  • Science

    TROLL.
    Also, being made of guns sounds like one of those things your religion might send you to hell for…. just sayin….

  • Andy

    Goob has the right idea! Don’t get down on us because our retarded older brother found the microphone on the worlds PA system! America still has some sane folk!

  • Bebebe

    Hear, hear!

  • Rafael

    WTH? Good thing he was vindicated.

  • Rafael

    WTH? Good thing he was vindicated.

  • Bobthebiulder

    NO Findley is rite is time to stop being nice. time to fight fire with fire. I for one I’m sick to death of listening to these fucking morons telling me that they are better than me; they have no brain on way of thinking for them self’s, they just hide behind their stupid book of fables. The Earth would be a much better place without them.

  • Bobthebuilder

    NO Findley is rite is time to stop being nice. time to fight fire with fire. I for one I’m sick to death of listening to these fucking morons telling me that they are better than me; they have no brain on way of thinking for them self’s, they just hide behind their stupid book of fables. The Earth would be a much better place without them.
    Flag

  • Bobthebuilder

    NO Findley is rite is time to stop being nice. time to fight fire with fire. I for one I’m sick to death of listening to these fucking morons telling me that they are better than me; they have no brain on way of thinking for them self’s, they just hide behind their stupid book of fables. The Earth would be a much better place without them.
    Flag

  • Jet

    your not only stupid but ignorant too. christians can’t rule the world any more…there is no GOD, it was a made up story and not even a very good one.

  • Jet

    how can they feel justified they are breaking the law…There is a seperation of church and state.. the law needs to be followed by christians too..you are stupid and ignorant too…

  • Jet

    you are stupid and ignorant too. christians are pervs. and haters…duh

  • Jeeemeister

    Good deal for the Atheists! Down with the crummy, boring, narrow-minded, foolish, moronic religious jerks! I’m so sick and tired of religion! Get rid of it!

    Jeeem

  • Jeeemeister

    Good deal for the Atheists! Down with the crummy, boring, narrow-minded, foolish, moronic religious jerks! I’m so sick and tired of religion! Get rid of it!

    Jeeem

  • Jeeemeister

    Good deal for the Atheists! Down with the crummy, boring, narrow-minded, foolish, moronic religious jerks! I’m so sick and tired of religion! Get rid of it!

    Jeeem

    • Jbooks

      well, you are in the minority, fool

      • APR

        That’s why humans are largely primitive superstitious hairless apes.

      • Bob

        The minority not wasting their lives praying to invisible men.

      • http://canuck45.myopenid.com/ Andrea

        Just because someone is in a minority does not mean they are wrong.

      • Shanabell69

        No actually due to science christians are quickly becoming the minority. America is a little slow to change but over half of Europeans are ATHEISTS and the numbers are sure to grow now that the internet is here to spread the TRUTH and not a bunch of preconceived notions from thousands of years ago!

        • Zel

          So are you saying just because someone else believes something everyone should because its the truth? Hmmm… your sounding a bit hypocritical to me. Try again.

          • Shanabell69

            I never said that because someone else believes something it is right or wrong. That would make me a religious nut like yourself. I dont follow the herd of sheep. I believe it is right because I believe it to be. IT has nothing to do with the numbers at all!

      • Shanabell69

        keep calling people fools and see where that gets you. God doesnt like ugly ( if he is real that is) and you are all kinds of ugly and hateful.

    • Zel

      Wow. And that statement wasn’t full of hatred, ego driven apathy for other human beings. Cool man.

  • Jeeemeister

    No…here is where you are wrong. It’s the TATTERED FABRIC of RELIGION that is unraveling…and the reason why is obvious. People are waking up, becoming educated, and learning to ignore religion’s lie.

    Jeeemeister

  • Gregory

    While the atheists obviously should not have been assaulted, the atheists should have had some class. Which is not something you see in atheists generally, since they’re so out of touch with not only the nature of the cosmos, but their own, they are generally cranky, unhappy people who, in trying to disconnect themselves with reality find they have a problem operating in a sane manner.

    It must be hard to wake up every morning trying to deny your own existence, yet atheists are engaged in just that sport.

    It is absolutely true that ANY US Government function, whether it is a legislative assembly or a high school football game at a public, tax-supported school, should be totally absent of any religious content whatsoever, as the Constitution forbids the recognizing of any particular religion and supports one’s freedom of religion.

    Atheists however, denying that they exist while clearly standing there, are not going to help the effort to have gov’t be truly of the people, for the people and of the people, since people just know better.

    Which is the real tragedy of atheism, as you have these folks who put themselves up as smarter and “open-minded” (that always makes me chuckle, since making up your mind and being completely sure of yourself is the opposite of being open minded) but they’re really the ones who go through life experiencing the unseen world, as their minds are unseen and we are expressions of consciousness and yet are so addle-brained that they try to deny their own existence and purge all meaning from life, when they should know better.

    Atheism is a product of a materialistic age in which spiritual incompetence reigns, in fundamentalist religions like Xianity and Atheism where people are so disconnected with reality they find they have lost the understanding of what it means to be human. Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter.

    fiat lux

  • Gregory

    While the atheists obviously should not have been assaulted, the atheists should have had some class. Which is not something you see in atheists generally, since they’re so out of touch with not only the nature of the cosmos, but their own, they are generally cranky, unhappy people who, in trying to disconnect themselves with reality find they have a problem operating in a sane manner.

    It must be hard to wake up every morning trying to deny your own existence, yet atheists are engaged in just that sport.

    It is absolutely true that ANY US Government function, whether it is a legislative assembly or a high school football game at a public, tax-supported school, should be totally absent of any religious content whatsoever, as the Constitution forbids the recognizing of any particular religion and supports one’s freedom of religion.

    Atheists however, denying that they exist while clearly standing there, are not going to help the effort to have gov’t be truly of the people, for the people and of the people, since people just know better.

    Which is the real tragedy of atheism, as you have these folks who put themselves up as smarter and “open-minded” (that always makes me chuckle, since making up your mind and being completely sure of yourself is the opposite of being open minded) but they’re really the ones who go through life experiencing the unseen world, as their minds are unseen and we are expressions of consciousness and yet are so addle-brained that they try to deny their own existence and purge all meaning from life, when they should know better.

    Atheism is a product of a materialistic age in which spiritual incompetence reigns, in fundamentalist religions like Xianity and Atheism where people are so disconnected with reality they find they have lost the understanding of what it means to be human. Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter.

    fiat lux

    • Mental Lentil

      As an atheist who knows many other atheists I have to say I find your post baffling. I have never denied my own existence and neither has anyone I’ve known denied theirs.

      Where do you get this strange idea about atheists from?

      • linbegone

        From the invisible sky guy, where else.

  • bmac

    Here’s the deal – not everyone has the respect for Pastors that you so obviously do. To a lot of people, they’re just glorified storytellers. So to interrupt a “PASTOR” (as you just had to put in caps) is like interrupting that guy from Blues’ Clues.

    Yes, we live in a country full of Christians who are going to pray, and I defend their right to do this – in the privacy of their places of worship and/or home. How would you feel if there was a Jewish blessing at the beginning of this assembly? Or how about a Muslim address? I feel like your reaction would be slightly different.

    It all boils down to accountability. Either you believe in the strength of the Constitution, or you don’t. Period. If you want this country to make it any farther, ALL religion has to be eradicated from the political process. Sure, religion does define some people, and the way they make decisions, but it should not be their cornerstone in the political arena.

    What ever happened to reason and logic?

    Who is John Galt?

  • 1225

    why do atheists act lyk they’re victims??
    So many religious people get harassed and assauletd ten times worse every day all over the world.

  • 1225

    why do atheists act lyk they’re victims??
    So many religious people get harassed and assauletd ten times worse every day all over the world.

    • Andrew

      Because victimization is not a competitive sport.

    • William-P

      Interesting… I am curious as to who does the harassing and assaulting of religious figures all over the world? Perhaps other religion people fighting other religious people of the wrong faith? Do you do irony?

  • Andrew

    Because victimization is not a competitive sport.

  • William-P

    How wonderful to see the ‘Christian love’ we are used to hearing about but rarely witnessing. I suppose we should be grateful because if this was Afganistan those Atheists would have been be-headed and not simply assaulted.

  • William-P

    How wonderful to see the ‘Christian love’ we are used to hearing about but rarely witnessing. I suppose we should be grateful because if this was Afganistan those Atheists would have been be-headed and not simply assaulted.

  • curtis

    I think the real idiot here is someone like yourself that doesn’t see a violation of the constitution as wrong. The issue is not that it doesn’t hurt anybody, the issue is that it violates a document that these people are elected to uphold. You talk about stopping corrupt politicians instead, well what about the corruption that allows for someone who is against a violation of the constitution to be violently silenced for pointing out what should all be so painfully obvious to these people, that opening a political meeting with a prayer is wrong. I think there is a problem in the U.S. because there are people like you that selectively pick and choose what amendments should be upheld and which ones shouldn’t.

  • William-P

    Interesting… I am curious as to who does the harassing and assaulting of religious figures all over the world? Perhaps other religion people fighting other religious people of the wrong faith? Do you do irony?

  • William-P

    Interesting… I am curious as to who does the harassing and assaulting of religious figures all over the world? Perhaps other religion people fighting other religious people of the wrong faith? Do you do irony?

  • Tom

    Please show me where in the constitution it talks about separation of church and state?

  • William-P

    The first paragraph I believe… it does not say ‘…seperation of chruch and state’ but it has been generally implied and accepted for centuries that is what it actually means.

  • Pete

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof…” 1st Amendment.

    Separation of church and state was first coined by Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802, and was adopted into several Supreme Court cases, meaning that we have interpreted the 1st Amendment to mean that there is a separation, and this has become a widely accepted. If for some strange reason, a court case came up and our justices decide to overturn this precedence, then you might be able to get rid of separation of church and state, but for now it stands as law.

    If you want even more information go look it up on Wikipedia. Or one of many sites dedicated to the first amendment. I’m sure you’ll find more info than you ever want to know.

  • Kira

    Nowhere, which is why this poor guy who got punched in the face did not say anything about “separation of church and state”. What the constitution DOES say is that the government cannot “promote or prohibit” any religion. You can go hear that pastor pray every Sunday if you’d like, but it is a violation of the constitution for him to be supporting religion in the Hawaii state legislature.

  • Kira

    Nowhere, which is why this poor guy who got punched in the face did not say anything about “separation of church and state”. What the constitution DOES say is that the government cannot “promote or prohibit” any religion. You can go hear that pastor pray every Sunday if you’d like, but it is a violation of the constitution for him to be supporting religion in the Hawaii state legislature.

  • Mental Lentil

    As an atheist who knows many other atheists I have to say I find your post baffling. I have never denied my own existence and neither has anyone I’ve known denied theirs.

    Where do you get this strange idea about atheists from?

  • yonker

    Every person you responded “amen” to this illegal invocation is complicit in the violation of this American Patriot’s rights. Boooo on you xtian! (especially the faux doctor talking to the air)

  • yonker

    Every person you responded “amen” to this illegal invocation is complicit in the violation of this American Patriot’s rights. Boooo on you xtian! (especially the faux doctor talking to the air)

    • Tomjordan

      talking to the air…lolz

  • Irish Spring

    Trolls aside, back to the Video and the assault. I did not see any “law” that had been past establishing Christianity as the religion of Hawaii. Just a pastor asking folks to pray with hm. Voluntary compliance is not a “force”. Therefore the Constitution has not been violated. Simply sitting still and continuing to work would have been protest enough. Really piss them off and ask that a Muslim Imam be allowed to start the session, then a Satanist! If they refuse to allow other religions to open the day, then you would have a case. YES have a NO Opening Prayer day for the Atheists. He interrupted the proceedings (that is illegal) and was arrested. Where everyone needs to get upset is how they savagely attacked the guy with the camera. The Police state hates getting caught on film and they took it too him. THAT is the real travesty that should be shouted about! he did not interrupt or interfere with the arrest. The Citizens that assaulted him should be charged or sued. Focus our efforts on the police state!

  • Irish Spring

    Trolls aside, back to the Video and the assault. I did not see any “law” that had been past establishing Christianity as the religion of Hawaii. Just a pastor asking folks to pray with hm. Voluntary compliance is not a “force”. Therefore the Constitution has not been violated. Simply sitting still and continuing to work would have been protest enough. Really piss them off and ask that a Muslim Imam be allowed to start the session, then a Satanist! If they refuse to allow other religions to open the day, then you would have a case. YES have a NO Opening Prayer day for the Atheists. He interrupted the proceedings (that is illegal) and was arrested. Where everyone needs to get upset is how they savagely attacked the guy with the camera. The Police state hates getting caught on film and they took it too him. THAT is the real travesty that should be shouted about! he did not interrupt or interfere with the arrest. The Citizens that assaulted him should be charged or sued. Focus our efforts on the police state!

    • eyebeam

      You are absolutely correct!

    • rabidsloth

      “I did not see any “law” that had been past establishing Christianity as the religion of Hawaii.”

      It was a clear endorsement of his religious services and thus a clear violation of the Constitution.

    • Newt

      Fourth’d. The church/state separation argument can go on til the sun burns out for all I care, but the “Government officials trying not to get caught lawbreaking on film” phenomenon is something that ought to be punished, as severely as possible, each and every time it happens.

  • Mhager11

    You are the worst that humanity has to offer you low life cowardly troll. I know you wouldn’t have the nerve to say that to anyone’s face, you goddamned coward.

  • http://twitter.com/Gabogardea Gabriel Gardea Aguer

    those assholes, seriously its like we´re living in the XVth century, so i guess we could burn them in a stake! Na thats what people like them would do roght? ASSHOLES!

  • http://twitter.com/Gabogardea Gabriel Gardea Aguer

    those assholes, seriously its like we´re living in the XVth century, so i guess we could burn them in a stake! Na thats what people like them would do roght? ASSHOLES!

  • http://twitter.com/Gabogardea Gabriel Gardea Aguer

    This fucking assholes! Its like we´re living in the XVth century, so i guess we should burn them in a stake right? Naaaaa that´s what THEY would do!! ASSHOLES!!!

  • http://twitter.com/Gabogardea Gabriel Gardea Aguer

    This fucking assholes! Its like we´re living in the XVth century, so i guess we should burn them in a stake right? Naaaaa that´s what THEY would do!! ASSHOLES!!!

  • http://twitter.com/Gabogardea Gabriel Gardea Aguer

    This fucking assholes! Its like we´re living in the XVth century, so i guess we should burn them in a stake right? Naaaaa that´s what THEY would do!! ASSHOLES!!!

  • http://twitter.com/eyebeam Chris

    You are absolutely correct!

  • radiac

    Jesus H. Christ!

  • radiac

    Jesus H. Christ!

  • Zengardener

    yelling during prayer would seem more childish if they weren’t assaulted for doing so.

  • Andrew

    …that doesn’t violate the Constitution. Any cursory glance at the Constitution would reveal that. Almost every single state constitution makes reference to God and it is completely legal.

  • AndrewChristensen

    …that doesn’t violate the Constitution. Any cursory glance at the Constitution would reveal that. Almost every single state constitution makes reference to God and it is completely legal.

    • Bazblack

      yes, but it violates the true constitution, the real one before congress changed it years ago

  • Andrew

    ….nowhere in the First Amendment is there a reference to STATE legislatures. It’s only about Congress not making laws referencing religion, not State legislatures. Have you even READ the First Amendment?

  • Rasrox7331

    I absolutely love how most of the comments here are ragging on religion for hypocrisy, mass ignorance, and hatred, when they themselves are doing the EXACT SAME THING while trying to prove their points. Doing the things you hate upon is the definition of hypocritical. I do believe you aren’t making your side seem any better.

    The fact of the matter is, this WAS NOT unconstitutional. I distinctly heard the pastor ASK them to pray with him, not demand. It was not an integral part of the ceremony, he was a guest. And even then, to be offended by that is ludicrous. It’s easy to just do something else while everyone is praying.
    That’s the extent of militant atheist arrogance I suppose. Make huge deals out of everything involving the smallest iota of religion in them. So much so that I sincerely doubt that should an opportunity arise for compromise, it would be overshadowed by their overwhelming contrarianism. I’d even go so far as to call that their dogma. Yes, the Christians throw stones at those who don’t believe the way they do, and you guys call for their arrest or mass “culling”, To wipe the “nonbelievers” off the face of the earth, or make them “enlightened”. Sounds pretty familiar to me :3

    It was wrong for the police to beat them, and they should be put on trial for that. However, I excuse a tiny bit of them for the atheists’ rude screaming and bursting in on the congregation. It was perfectly acceptable for them to be removed, not hurt.

    *Sigh* That’s the way the world is nowadays I suppose. The fight against ignorance versus the fight against arrogance.

  • Rasrox7331

    I absolutely love how most of the comments here are ragging on religion for hypocrisy, mass ignorance, and hatred, when they themselves are doing the EXACT SAME THING while trying to prove their points. Doing the things you hate upon is the definition of hypocritical. I do believe you aren’t making your side seem any better.

    The fact of the matter is, this WAS NOT unconstitutional. I distinctly heard the pastor ASK them to pray with him, not demand. It was not an integral part of the ceremony, he was a guest. And even then, to be offended by that is ludicrous. It’s easy to just do something else while everyone is praying.
    That’s the extent of militant atheist arrogance I suppose. Make huge deals out of everything involving the smallest iota of religion in them. So much so that I sincerely doubt that should an opportunity arise for compromise, it would be overshadowed by their overwhelming contrarianism. I’d even go so far as to call that their dogma. Yes, the Christians throw stones at those who don’t believe the way they do, and you guys call for their arrest or mass “culling”, To wipe the “nonbelievers” off the face of the earth, or make them “enlightened”. Sounds pretty familiar to me :3

    It was wrong for the police to beat them, and they should be put on trial for that. However, I excuse a tiny bit of them for the atheists’ rude screaming and bursting in on the congregation. It was perfectly acceptable for them to be removed, not hurt.

    *Sigh* That’s the way the world is nowadays I suppose. The fight against ignorance versus the fight against arrogance.

  • Rasrox7331

    I absolutely love how most of the comments here are ragging on religion for hypocrisy, mass ignorance, and hatred, when they themselves are doing the EXACT SAME THING while trying to prove their points. Doing the things you hate upon is the definition of hypocritical. I do believe you aren’t making your side seem any better.

    The fact of the matter is, this WAS NOT unconstitutional. I distinctly heard the pastor ASK them to pray with him, not demand. It was not an integral part of the ceremony, he was a guest. And even then, to be offended by that is ludicrous. It’s easy to just do something else while everyone is praying.
    That’s the extent of militant atheist arrogance I suppose. Make huge deals out of everything involving the smallest iota of religion in them. So much so that I sincerely doubt that should an opportunity arise for compromise, it would be overshadowed by their overwhelming contrarianism. I’d even go so far as to call that their dogma. Yes, the Christians throw stones at those who don’t believe the way they do, and you guys call for their arrest or mass “culling”, To wipe the “nonbelievers” off the face of the earth, or make them “enlightened”. Sounds pretty familiar to me :3

    It was wrong for the police to beat them, and they should be put on trial for that. However, I excuse a tiny bit of them for the atheists’ rude screaming and bursting in on the congregation. It was perfectly acceptable for them to be removed, not hurt.

    *Sigh* That’s the way the world is nowadays I suppose. The fight against ignorance versus the fight against arrogance.

  • Rasrox7331

    I absolutely love how most of the comments here are ragging on religion for hypocrisy, mass ignorance, and hatred, when they themselves are doing the EXACT SAME THING while trying to prove their points. Doing the things you hate upon is the definition of hypocritical. I do believe you aren’t making your side seem any better.

    The fact of the matter is, this WAS NOT unconstitutional. I distinctly heard the pastor ASK them to pray with him, not demand. It was not an integral part of the ceremony, he was a guest. And even then, to be offended by that is ludicrous. It’s easy to just do something else while everyone is praying.
    That’s the extent of militant atheist arrogance I suppose. Make huge deals out of everything involving the smallest iota of religion in them. So much so that I sincerely doubt that should an opportunity arise for compromise, it would be overshadowed by their overwhelming contrarianism. I’d even go so far as to call that their dogma. Yes, the Christians throw stones at those who don’t believe the way they do, and you guys call for their arrest or mass “culling”, To wipe the “nonbelievers” off the face of the earth, or make them “enlightened”. Sounds pretty familiar to me :3

    It was wrong for the police to beat them, and they should be put on trial for that. However, I excuse a tiny bit of them for the atheists’ rude screaming and bursting in on the congregation. It was perfectly acceptable for them to be removed, not hurt.

    *Sigh* That’s the way the world is nowadays I suppose. The fight against ignorance versus the fight against arrogance.

    • Jami_sam

      It’s also easy to just pray while everyone is doing something else and get left behind. Christians don’t need to be culled or anything for not believing in not believing, they just need to the shut up about it and not threaten with eternal hellfire when someone is just trying live life while you’re actually alive to live it instead of waiting till your dead to find happiness.

  • Brianh1903

    first amendment

  • Darin

    Congress shall MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Where does it say “a congress may not choose to pray if they wish?” In fact, it seems to say “no one is allowed to stop you”

  • Darin

    Congress shall MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Where does it say “a congress may not choose to pray if they wish?” In fact, it seems to say “no one is allowed to stop you”

  • Darin

    Congress shall MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Where does it say “a congress may not choose to pray if they wish?” In fact, it seems to say “no one is allowed to stop you”

  • Wncooney27

    Shibbylow: The reason it is unconstitutional to invoke prayer at a government-sponsored event is that is DOES cause harm and injury. I don’t mean to sound condescending but apparently you do not comprehend the harm that this practice does to everyone else who is not a Christian, or religious, or otherwise just an ordinary citizen. The point is that harm is done by the government sponsoring prayer at a public meeting. Nobody wants to stop people from praying. People are free to pray whenever and wherever they want – on their own time. It should not be an official act of government. They should gather in the hallway or parking lot prior to the event, hold hands if they want, and pray to their hearts content – then enter and have the meeting called to secular order. This process respects everyone. Government cannot be seen as endorsing or favoring any religion because as guarantors of free religious expression, they subvert the very freedoms they are tasked with protecting when they allign themselves with any one religious constituent.

  • Fandangolurk

    This is war. The religious right conservative Christians have declared it upon eveyone of us who won’t bow and scrape before their imaginary friend. Fight back, people, or you’ll soon find yourself living in a Handmaids Tale.

  • Fandangolurk

    This is war. The religious right conservative Christians have declared it upon eveyone of us who won’t bow and scrape before their imaginary friend. Fight back, people, or you’ll soon find yourself living in a Handmaids Tale.

    • AndrewChristensen

      You’ll lose

  • laughing@you

    You’ll lose

  • laughing@you

    lol, sounds like *someone* is trying to convince themselves of something. Must be a hard life having to constantly attack other peoples ideology because yours is hollow and fruitless

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7PX5RLBOJ4FVZVNVL2IDW5HXII Miguel Matias

    I do agree that it was stupid to shout at people praying but it’s fucking ridiculous to do it in a public place like a school when there are people who are not christian being told to pray before the day began. It’d be like praying everyday instead of saying the pledge of allegiance. and you can say “oh well he’s just trying to make every ones day happy so get over it” is fucking stupid if there were more Hindus or Muslims in senate and they made people pray to start a fucking meeting it’s be bullshit.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7PX5RLBOJ4FVZVNVL2IDW5HXII Miguel Matias

    You know atheist and Christians can be the two most annoying and stupid groups in the world. One side wants everyone to believe in God and the other wants everyone to believe there is no God and the both oppress the rights of people if I want to fucking pray I should be able to pray. If I want to pray to Krishna it should be okay. If I want to decorate for halloween or christmas it should be okay. Your both fucking assholes and both should be forced to tolerate others religions and ideas before there let out in to the world

  • Kmcgaugh

    I read the Constitution and it says it is illegal to make any law relating to religion. That means no law for or against any religion. This includes Christianity. These anti Christian zealots are completely mistaken about the Constitution. They have twisted the meaning of no law into a new law against religion. They are the traitors to freedom of religion. They are the henchmen of religious tyranny. They should be charged as traitors because they sow lies about the highest law of the United States and incite insurrection against the free practice of prayer and reverence for God among peaceful servants of the public good.

  • Kmcgaugh

    I read the Constitution and it says it is illegal to make any law relating to religion. That means no law for or against any religion. This includes Christianity. These anti Christian zealots are completely mistaken about the Constitution. They have twisted the meaning of no law into a new law against religion. They are the traitors to freedom of religion. They are the henchmen of religious tyranny. They should be charged as traitors because they sow lies about the highest law of the United States and incite insurrection against the free practice of prayer and reverence for God among peaceful servants of the public good.

  • Jbooks

    the american constitution NOWHERE says anything about separation of church and state.

  • Jbooks

    the american constitution NOWHERE says anything about separation of church and state.

  • tony

    go and look up the consitution and tell me where it says you can’t pray at government meetings…

  • tony

    yes – stupid people like yourself who refuse to ask God for help

  • Jbooks

    poorly conceived? indeed you’ve never read or understood it.

  • Jbooks

    well, you are in the minority, fool

  • Jbooks

    EXACTLY RIGHT!

  • Jbooks

    oh is that so, kyle? you judge us by your own petty mind

  • Stuart

    yes sure thing – are they stupid because they don’t believe in things like the world was made by god (in the dark) 4,000 years ago. Do you believe that carbon dating of fossils is flawed ?

    is the ‘big bang’ just the name of some show on tv ?

  • Andrew

    “We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance, and mindful of our Hawaiian heritage and uniqueness as an island State, dedicate our efforts to fulfill the philosophy decreed by the Hawaii State motto, ‘Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono.’” – from the preamble of the Hawaii Constitution

    “Divine Guidance” is a fairly straightforward not towards religion and no one to my knowledge has tried to rewrite the Hawaii Constitution over it. You know why? Because it is entirely constitutional

  • Andrew

    “We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance, and mindful of our Hawaiian heritage and uniqueness as an island State, dedicate our efforts to fulfill the philosophy decreed by the Hawaii State motto, ‘Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono.’” – from the preamble of the Hawaii Constitution

    “Divine Guidance” is a fairly straightforward not towards religion and no one to my knowledge has tried to rewrite the Hawaii Constitution over it. You know why? Because it is entirely constitutional

  • Ji_mi

    cops are criminals – every day something like this happens but you don’t always get to see it

  • Ji_mi

    cops are criminals – every day something like this happens but you don’t always get to see it

  • Anonymous

    Look up the separation of church and state. No government may endorse a religion.

  • Anonymous

    “I did not see any “law” that had been past establishing Christianity as the religion of Hawaii.”

    It was a clear endorsement of his religious services and thus a clear violation of the Constitution.

  • APR

    Exactly. Why don’t they give equal time to Satan? Better yet, what about an anti-theist speech?

  • APR

    Alas, the Big Bang may be the creation theory of the Church of Science. Why does there have to be a beginning? Who cares? We should spend time on building a better future, not waste billions of hours and dollars speculating about the past.

  • APR

    If you have to “ask God” you are doing something wrong.

  • APR

    That’s why humans are largely primitive superstitious hairless apes.

  • APR

    The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

    No, we read and understand. Judeochristoislaminism preaches VIOLENCE!

  • Bob

    The minority not wasting their lives praying to invisible men.

  • Bob

    The minority not wasting their lives praying to invisible men.

  • Bob

    Reality is only hollow and fruitless to those who have never experienced it. The burden of proof is on you – everything about your belief system is based on conjecture, assumptions, and the superstitious ramblings of an ancient cult formed by political dissenters and proto-socialists. FAITH is no substitute for reality – just ask Mr. Obama.

    In other words, the only thing christians have is their faith, and that doesn’t count for jack shit in reality. I can understand the hippy dippy “love thy neighbor” tenets – after all, humans are social animals. The egotistical heaven, judgement day and prayer crap, on the other hand, is really just foolish, not to mention DESTRUCTIVE to the rest of society.

    Now, by all means, I’m not saying you shouldn’t worship the god of your choosing, that’s a personal decision. Legislate superstition, though, and you deserve every single bit of persecution you bring down upon yourselves. Nero probably fed you guys to the lions because he was sick of all the “God Hates Fags” protesters at Legionnaire funerals. The reason people hate christians isn’t necessarily because of your beliefs – it’s because you’re a bunch of entitled fucking assholes who think the whole world was made for you. News flash – it NEVER WAS. Even in the Torah (or pentateuch if you’re catholic, or “the parts I don’t read cuz theres too many damn joos” if you’re evangelical), there’s nary a mention of any christian traditions that aren’t originally judaic – and a lot of things that you guys DON’T follow. It’d kinda be cool if it WERE real, just to see the look on the average christian’s face when god looks at the sheer volume of bacon and shrimp they’ve eaten and said “Uh Oh – unclean! Straight to hell for you! Do not pass purgatory, do not collect 200 shekels.”

    Besides, if Big Joe created the world 6000 years ago, wouldn’t the Sumerians and Egyptians (specifically the badari) have noticed it, considering that their civilization had already been well established for at least a millennium? Besides, everyone knows the earth is really only 56 years old.

  • Bob

    Actually, the Supreme Court has ruled that it DOES apply to the States. See Everson v. Board of Education.

  • Shibbylow555

    You know what I’m tired of? Americans who bitch about every little thing. At least you live in a country where you can pray or practice any religion you please. (or lack there off) You know if you pulled this shit in an Islamic theocracy they would have stoned you. Then you’d have nothing to bitch about you’d just be dead. Not because it was just or fair, just because that’s the way it is. Instead of bitching and moaning all the time you should be thankful for the rights you do have because compared to a lot of the world you’ve got it good.

  • Anonymous

    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

  • etnad333

    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

  • Andre Zenigma

    Many have asked and received no answer ever. I never ask for anything and still get what I need and I’m a Freethinker who does not believe in believing. Believing is for the ignorant

  • laughing@Bob

    Atheism is not “the ideology of reality”. It is an ideology of the FAITH BASED PRESUMPTION that metaphysics is non-existent or at least does not have any overall meaning. It is hollow and fruitless in the sense that in order to fully accept it to its logical limits you must admit that there is no such thing as objective justice or meaning to life.

    Burden of proof is a scientific tenet, not a logical tenet. Things aren’t “false until proven true”.

    Heaven, judgment, and prayer are extremely positive concepts for society as long as they are pursued with broader more rational concepts from scripture. Countless scientific advancements were made by people who believed in these concepts.

    Faith means plenty in reality. You obviously know nothing about Pragmatism. Faith improves the quality of life for billions of people by increasing their perceived happiness.

    Also, the reason people hate Atheists IS because of their belief AND because their entitled fucking assholes who think the whole world revolves around them. By the way, if you knew anything about more traditional christian denominations you’d understand their arguments for ignoring parts of the Torah.

    Funny how you assume I’m Christian when I didn’t say anything to that effect. I’m actually an Agnostic with Deist leanings. I just shit on Atheists because they are the most blind, annoying, hateful group behind only the most extremist Muslim or Christian. At least Christians and Muslims come in degrees, ALL Atheists seem extremist

  • Mar

    I believe that it is not right to include prayer at the sessions, but this is the wrong way to go about getting your point across. Lack of civility leads to bigger disputes, and it makes both sides look bad. This has turned into a situation that’s no longer about God or religion, but about people being uncivil.

  • Mar

    I believe that it is not right to include prayer at the sessions, but this is the wrong way to go about getting your point across. Lack of civility leads to bigger disputes, and it makes both sides look bad. This has turned into a situation that’s no longer about God or religion, but about people being uncivil.

  • anti-APR

    church of science? this is the silliest thing I have ever read, science is merely the better understanding of our world through careful observation. Well apparently you care, because if the only theory is the one in Genesis then a jealous all powerful being, whoops thats too silly to actually exist, built the universe in six days and had a nap on the seventh.

  • anti-APR

    no anti-theist, ATHEIST. anti-theist means against god, atheist means no god.

    they dont give equal time to satan because satan doesn’t have a billion strong cult. The government should not be connected to religion in any way.

  • anti-apr

    “It is an ideology of the FAITH BASED PRESUMPTION that metaphysics is non-existent or at least does not have any overall meaning. It is hollow and fruitless in the sense that in order to fully accept it to its logical limits you must admit that there is no such thing as objective justice or meaning to life.”

    religion and spirituality are not synonyms.

    I dont care if you believe in a god and a savior, all I care about is that these people cuase more problems with their belief then fix. Now i will not say that atheists are always the nicest people, but i personally am open to understanding both arguemntents, but I am have to find a discussion that explains how a ‘god’ gives you meaning in life, not without seeming like i am some P.O.S slave of the universe.

    Now im not hating on you personally, i dont know you, but to say that all atheists are a hatefukl bunch of jerks is like saying all muslims are terrorists.

    religion was good at one point, now it is not helpful

  • that1guy

    Dude. You are up your own ass. “indeed” “your own petty mind” you take shits like the rest of us buddy. Get off your high horse.

  • that1guy

    Dude. You are up your own ass. “indeed” “your own petty mind” you take shits like the rest of us buddy. Get off your high horse.

  • Anti_fascist_freedom_fighter

    The security, like the police, have been trained to attack the press. The need to act in secrecy is the hallmark of a fascist police state. If you lived in a free country, these security people would first protect the rights of a citizen to speak, as well as welcome any video to record any lawful arrest.

  • Anti_fascist_freedom_fighter

    The security, like the police, have been trained to attack the press. The need to act in secrecy is the hallmark of a fascist police state. If you lived in a free country, these security people would first protect the rights of a citizen to speak, as well as welcome any video to record any lawful arrest.

  • Andrew

    I didn’t compare religion to spirituality, I compared Atheism to rejection of metaphysics.

    There are many arguments for how God gives meaning to life. I don’t really accept most of them. From my perspective religion gives a far less arbitrary idea of a meaning to life than atheism could (I would argue that Atheism is by nature either relativist or nihilist) and from a deist “clockmaker” perspective I would argue that considering the creator made the universe in a way that humans, to our knowledge, have the most control over the form of the universe compared to other beings that humans naturally have some value. Given that humanity and individual human life is valuable it seems necessary to create a code of ethics around this concept. Why would it matter what some “creator” thinks though? I liken it to a computer program. If God created the program then his definitions make up the fabric of the universe, so things that are programmed as “good” are necessarily good according to the program and things programmed as “evil” are necessarily evil. In this way it matters little how we feel about the programming or Gods intention for writing it in a certain way because the program is already written and motivation will not change the programming.

    Of course, it is possible there is no God and even if he exists he may not attribute any special value to human life. I place faith in the existence of God and use strong, albeit imperfect, logic to derive value for human life from the state of his creation. On the flip-side an Atheist could place faith on the non-existence of God and choose something arbitrary like the evolutionary drive for self-preservation to place value on their lives then use some mental gymnastics to somehow export value of their own lives from that to some moral code of overall value for human life but that all involves much more arbitration and poor logic so I’d rather choose Occam’s Razor in this case (even if it is a fallacious tool of logic in itself).

    Anyway, religion ALWAYS has the potential to help just like it has the potential to hurt. The same applies to Atheism which could help by streamlining scientific procedure but could hurt by inspiring apathy in people who might be crushed by depression by the thought of their impending erasure from existence and consciousness. People get it in their heads that religion stands in the way of scientific progress and that they are two sides of a coin where only one face could win out in a toss but this is patently untrue. Take the case of Isaac Newton for example, he was one of the greatest scientists of the last millennium but he wrote more books about religion than he did about science/mathematics. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, the true theist would be excited by science as a window into the intricacies of God’s creation. Simpler theists choose to reject science as a threat to religion and wallow in their blissful ignorance (which is pragmatic in an individual sense but hurtful on a societal sense if they choose to compel this view on others).

  • Frontview

    Typical Americans, I can’t believe they still believe in religion. Oh well its common knowledge that America is just a freak show… No one likes American, basically the whole world hates them. Professional scammers, straight up…

    • Andrew

      lol, go back to your lower tier country and stop trolling the ruler of the free world

      • Andrew

        “ruler of the free world”

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      • Rtrhe2WEBH

        Have you recently tried to take a nailclipper on a plane in your so called free world?

        • Shanabell69

          yeah but thats because some TERRORIST flew planes into our world trade center or have you forgotten? YOU ARE SO DUMB! we had to amp up security for the safety of all citizens. It doesnt bother me that i cannot carry a fucking nailclipper on a plane if it saves lives! Im sure your country would do the same in that situation if they havent already taken precautions. Its the evil RELIGIOUS terrorists that have ruined it for the rest of us.

    • Shanabell69

      ummmm…there are atheists here in america! it may come as a shock to you but you are WRONG! wow am i confusing you simpleton?

    • frontviewsuksdick

      American atheist here wtf piece of shit country to you come from you smug faggot?

  • Frontview

    Typical Americans, I can’t believe they still believe in religion. Oh well its common knowledge that America is just a freak show… No one likes American, basically the whole world hates them. Professional scammers, straight up…

  • Plantwalks

    Good for these activists. In how many other state capitols is there prayer? Is there still prayer in Congress? Good for the judge and the wise ruling.

  • Plantwalks

    Good for these activists. In how many other state capitols is there prayer? Is there still prayer in Congress? Good for the judge and the wise ruling.

  • Stocc

    When you say “that guy from Blues’ Clues” do you mean Joe or Steve?

  • Unforgiven

    ok, people are kinda freaking out here over prayer etc. the real debate is if them praying in the state senate is legal, it isn’t, problem solved. Whether or not you are religious doesn’t matter.

    But still… Atheism rocks.

    • Andrew

      …what is your basis for saying it isn’t legal?

  • Unforgiven

    ok, people are kinda freaking out here over prayer etc. the real debate is if them praying in the state senate is legal, it isn’t, problem solved. Whether or not you are religious doesn’t matter.

    But still… Atheism rocks.

  • http://canuck45.myopenid.com/ andrea

    Just because someone is in a minority does not mean they are wrong.

  • http://canuck45.myopenid.com/ andrea

    And we have this right because we fought for it. So some ‘christian’ morons want to take us back to the dark ages, appealing to a mystical being for answers. Tell me the difference between that and an Islamic theocracy. Crazies are crazies no matter what their religion, and it doesn’t belong in state business.

  • http://canuck45.myopenid.com/ andrea

    You are right, you can do all those things. However when you come into my shared home (the senate) you cannot force your beliefs on me. Since I beleive in no divine being or evil worship, then I would like you to do nothing at hallowe’en and Christmas. Please tolerate my ideas and religion and follow my tenets as you request others do.

  • Ahmed Ata Razeq

    And its always been so since the dark ages.
    Me I’m a religious person, but I definitely agree with our constitution that state and church should be separated;

    Though for all of you who are (for lack of a better word right now) dogging on religion you are all just as blind. Religion in the past had the biggest connection with metaphysical, scientific, and epistemic studies. For one Islam in its golden age had amassed so much philosophical work (its own and others like Grecian and so on) it was amazing and only because of pillaging in the crusades and translations did the Europeans gain a foothold again. All the atheists here may doubt religion but I don’t know why you would doubt the existence of a God.

    Just so you guys can have even a small (non-religious) reason to believe look up “Pascal’s Wager” and tell me it’s not better for you :).

  • Ahmed Ata Razeq

    And its always been so since the dark ages.
    Me I’m a religious person, but I definitely agree with our constitution that state and church should be separated;

    Though for all of you who are (for lack of a better word right now) dogging on religion you are all just as blind. Religion in the past had the biggest connection with metaphysical, scientific, and epistemic studies. For one Islam in its golden age had amassed so much philosophical work (its own and others like Grecian and so on) it was amazing and only because of pillaging in the crusades and translations did the Europeans gain a foothold again. All the atheists here may doubt religion but I don’t know why you would doubt the existence of a God.

    Just so you guys can have even a small (non-religious) reason to believe look up “Pascal’s Wager” and tell me it’s not better for you :).

  • Jami_sam

    It’s also easy to just pray while everyone is doing something else and get left behind. Christians don’t need to be culled or anything for not believing in not believing, they just need to the shut up about it and not threaten with eternal hellfire when someone is just trying live life while you’re actually alive to live it instead of waiting till your dead to find happiness.

  • Not all haters

    Wow. A lot of the commentators on this page seem really angry and have a hard time putting things in perspective. Not every one that claims to be a Christian really is one. Quite a few go to church on Sunday so they can feel forgiven for hating the rest of the week. Not exactly what the Bible was going for.
    Matthew 7:20 “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” I will pray for you :)

  • Not all haters

    Wow. A lot of the commentators on this page seem really angry and have a hard time putting things in perspective. Not every one that claims to be a Christian really is one. Quite a few go to church on Sunday so they can feel forgiven for hating the rest of the week. Not exactly what the Bible was going for.
    Matthew 7:20 “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” I will pray for you :)

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Ryval_theology

    OMG!!!! I was raised catholic but I believe in the constitutional separation of church and state. I’ve worked with many different people with many different religious belief and I’ve seen many become very offended when there is a western religion present in an environment that shouldn’t have it. Yeah, you bible thumpers can now reply but before you do ask yourself what exactly did the pilgrims come to America in the first place? What was the founding idea to declare our independance from England? So before you start using the bible or your religion as a shield to hide behind remember that our forefathers fought for the right for you to do so which in turn gave everyone that have come to America and become American citizens the right to practice their religion beliefs…including the right not to believe in a religion.

  • Andrew

    …what is your basis for saying it isn’t legal?

  • Andrew

    lol, go back to your lower tier country and stop trolling the ruler of the free world

  • Andrew

    Funny, I didn’t realize that the Hawaii State Legislature was now the Federal “Congress” referred to in that amendment

  • Andrew

    The Supreme Court was never given the ability to decide the constitutionality of legislation by the Constitution. Marbury vs. Madison was a power grab by the Supreme Court that allows them to dictate policy with no check/balance. Thomas Jefferson, a major influence on the form of the constitution, was disgusted by the implications of the case.

    Regardless, just because the Supreme Court SAYS it is unconstitutional doesn’t mean it actually IS unconstitutional. Again, have you even READ the First Amendment? If you did you’d realize that the Supreme Court has no real grounds for calling such an act unconstitutional and is actually breaking the constitution by making such decisions. Using precedent is a broken system because it assumes the precedent cases were legitimate in the first place, next time try to speak to the source material. Tou can even borrow the source material arguments from that specific case if you want. You’ll still be wrong

  • Andrew

    “Separation of church and state” was a comment made by the illustrious Thomas Jefferson. It has no weight of compulsion. Try again

  • Andrew

    Lol, you think some fat guy making false objections is a hero. Wake up

  • Andrew

    lol, he’s just jealous that he doesn’t have anything to pray to

    • Sharpie.

      if the man wanted to pray, he could pray. its not like youre born and someone says “youre atheist, you dont have a god to pray to. if you want to pray, oh well.” in fact, its quite the opposite…

  • Andrew

    lol, he’s just jealous that he doesn’t have anything to pray to

  • Scaramouche

    For the record…there is NO Constitutional separation of church and state.
    Think…a bunch of people who are being persecuted for their religious beliefs move to a new land and set up laws that would further persecute themselves?
    Really?

    You are probably thinking of Jackson’s personal letters to his friend where he speaks about a separation of church and state but it was in a personal letter. Certainly not law.

    • Andrew

      The separation of church and state, which is in the First Amendment, doesn’t persecute religious practice it protects it.

  • Scaramouche

    For the record…there is NO Constitutional separation of church and state.
    Think…a bunch of people who are being persecuted for their religious beliefs move to a new land and set up laws that would further persecute themselves?
    Really?

    You are probably thinking of Jackson’s personal letters to his friend where he speaks about a separation of church and state but it was in a personal letter. Certainly not law.

  • Scaramouche

    For the record…there is NO Constitutional separation of church and state.
    Think…a bunch of people who are being persecuted for their religious beliefs move to a new land and set up laws that would further persecute themselves?
    Really?

    You are probably thinking of Jackson’s personal letters to his friend where he speaks about a separation of church and state but it was in a personal letter. Certainly not law.

  • Acw

    a very unintelligent theist indeed, why don’t you look up the counter argument, the atheists wager, and tell me what you think

  • Acw

    a very unintelligent theist indeed, why don’t you look up the counter argument, the atheists wager, and tell me what you think

  • Tom

    There is one very simple way of showing why Pascal’s Wager is useless: What if a DIFFERENT God exists?
    The wager assumes there are 2 possibilities: The biblical God existing, or not existing. What about Hindu Gods? Roman Gods? Greek Gods? Pagan Gods? Egyptian Gods? Mayan Gods? ….
    If you consider that there are potentially an INFINITE number of possible God, then the wager’s argument ceases to make any sense.

  • Andrew

    The separation of church and state, which is in the First Amendment, doesn’t persecute religious practice it protects it.

  • Andrew

    “ruler of the free world”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  • Rtrhe2WEBH

    Have you recently tried to take a nailclipper on a plane in your so called free world?

  • Sassafras

    You’re right, it’s expressly states in the Constitution tony. However, unfortunately for you, it has been ruled on multiple times in the United States Supreme Court, with a unanimous court (sometimes with the exception of Justice Stewart whose arguments quite plainly displayed he let personal bias effect his better judgment). See Engel v. Vitale, or School Dist. of Abington TWP., Pennsylvania v. Schempp.

    ps- Who do you think wrote the Constitution of the United States? O yeah, James Madison assisted by…Thomas Jerfferson. Madison was well known for saying “..it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties.”

    There, I showed you. Enjoy :)

  • Sassafras

    it doesnt expressly state* somehow that got jumbled up

  • Sharpie.

    its not the the actual prayer was illegal, it wasnt.

    its just that…

    1. its inappropriate in a large, public, government meeting. it shows favoritism for a religion…

    2. the reaction of the security and other officials WAS illegal and hypocritical.

    now, think if they had an atheist speaker come up and start spitting rhetoric and propaganda about his or her beliefs, or lack there of. Christians would have gone nuts! and all these people did was stand in the back and pronounce the fact that they are NOT praying, they do NOT believe what everyone else believes.

    we became americans as rebels, if we cannot keep that rebellious nature, we give up all control… if we can not even stand in a public place and speak our mind in a non-vulgar way, what the fuck has this country come to?

  • Sharpie.

    its not the the actual prayer was illegal, it wasnt.

    its just that…

    1. its inappropriate in a large, public, government meeting. it shows favoritism for a religion…

    2. the reaction of the security and other officials WAS illegal and hypocritical.

    now, think if they had an atheist speaker come up and start spitting rhetoric and propaganda about his or her beliefs, or lack there of. Christians would have gone nuts! and all these people did was stand in the back and pronounce the fact that they are NOT praying, they do NOT believe what everyone else believes.

    we became americans as rebels, if we cannot keep that rebellious nature, we give up all control… if we can not even stand in a public place and speak our mind in a non-vulgar way, what the fuck has this country come to?

  • Sharpie.

    if the man wanted to pray, he could pray. its not like youre born and someone says “youre atheist, you dont have a god to pray to. if you want to pray, oh well.” in fact, its quite the opposite…

  • Gdodd414

    The concept of “Separation of Church and State is clearly NOT in the US Constitution. It was actually started as a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802. The Separation of Church and State is NOT a part of the US Constitution.

  • bigphillydaddy

    Well I am not entirely sure what Hawaii’s State Constitution say, but the 1st Amendment of US Constitution says… “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise”.
    thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
    1) This is not the US Congress & 2) Saying a Prayer is allowing “the free exercise thereof” and is not making “law respecting an establishment of religion”. No, that poor sap should not have been hurt, but if you think about it he was the one “prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. People just need to read the law and know a little about our Country’s History. Oh and by the way the words “Separation of Church & State do not even appear in the Constitution.

    • Massie16

      the idea does though it is just worded differently

  • bigphillydaddy

    Well I am not entirely sure what Hawaii’s State Constitution say, but the 1st Amendment of US Constitution says… “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise”.
    thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
    1) This is not the US Congress & 2) Saying a Prayer is allowing “the free exercise thereof” and is not making “law respecting an establishment of religion”. No, that poor sap should not have been hurt, but if you think about it he was the one “prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. People just need to read the law and know a little about our Country’s History. Oh and by the way the words “Separation of Church & State do not even appear in the Constitution.

  • Ahmed Ata Razeq

    First I’d like to say Pascal’s wager isn’t the reason I believe in God, and on that I don’t feel the need to explain myself.

    First before talking about your issue with the wager; I think there’s a point Pascal is trying to make that it seems (to me at least) you’re missing. What Pascal is trying to show is that since under a theoretical basis it is so difficult to decide whether a God exists or not; it becomes okay to use practical reason. Really what I’m getting at is this gives you a reason to begin believing in God that has your best interest in mind.

    Also as for your many Gods objection it isn’t to big of a deal. even if there are many Gods Pascal would say pick one because in the end you still avoid infinite pain (eternal damnation). After you pick whichever God you want you cultivate the belief until it becomes your own; and there is no way that you can look at the wager box and say that the pay off in believing isn’t better. It takes time and repetition but the belief will soon follow action. It is a good reason to start believing, but not a good reason to continue believing.

  • Paullivgren90

    It may very well been a violation of the Constitution, but the HUGE misconception by this video, and many of you inflammatory, mocking atheists is that he was kicked out because he didn’t agree with it. Hmmm, no, i think it had something to do with him screaming at the top of his lungs and acting like he just dropped acid. Go to a court house and yell while they are preceding…and guess what happens.

  • Paullivgren90

    It may very well been a violation of the Constitution, but the HUGE misconception by this video, and many of you inflammatory, mocking atheists is that he was kicked out because he didn’t agree with it. Hmmm, no, i think it had something to do with him screaming at the top of his lungs and acting like he just dropped acid. Go to a court house and yell while they are preceding…and guess what happens.

  • Tomjordan

    Let’s just say, for sake of argument, that i believed in the goat herding sand monkey zombie savior too. I still don’t think we should waste time at public meetings with it. It’s personal, and should be.

  • Tomjordan

    talking to the air…lolz

  • Rick

    Theists will only do something good for promise of future reward. Will only resist bad behavior under threat of punishment. If there is a reward to be won in the “afterlife” surely it must be obtained through unselfish sacrifice and unbridled compassion for others. It must be a lonely place.

  • Malcolmembree

    Although not in the constitution secularism was certainly a main tenet of the founding fathers. “One Nation Under God” wasn’t added until 1954.
    Here’s a quote from George Washington from the Treaty of Tripoli “As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has itslef no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranguility against any musslemen…”
    Also there is trong evidence that Thomas Jefferson was an atheist. Also in articel VI “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    At any rate the point is that while the very term “seperation of church and state” wasn’t used until 1802, it still existed. All in all it should be kept from any public office and the man had the right to protest.

  • Disinfo

    You should know better than to pull Pascal’s wager. What’s next, “Five billion people believe god so she must exist”. Go look up logical fallacies, get some education, learn to think…

  • Disinfo

    Let me give you something else to think about. Look up Russel’s Teapot.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I’m already familiar with Pascal’s Wager…which generally only makes a big impression on students who took a single course in philosophy and then never followed up. The Wager makes a presumption that belief does no harm and might potentially offer great good in the future…and thus there is compelling reason to believe “just in case”.

    Quite the opposite is true. It does enormous harm…by legitimizing participation in the crimes against humans that others commit daily, as well as perpetuating harmful delusions that have ruined lives since the dawn of religion as a concept. Non-belief can only end these cycles of perpetual delusion and misery…thus the Wager is meaningless…a pseudo-intellectual excuse built on a flawed premise.

    I appreciate that you took the time to be convincing in a reasonable and polite way…but sadly the argument you offer up is a very old and very tired one that failed long ago and shouldn’t be resurrected except as a joke amongst people who already know better.

  • deeg

    You have posted all over this board, and each post is more ignorant than the last. Have you ever heard of incorporation? The Bill of Rights was clearly ruled to apply to both federal and state action. This has been tested and retried over and over again and still holds up to this day. The amendments in the bill of rights apply to state action, period. In this case, that means the endorsement of Christianity by the Hawaii state legislature is unconstitutional.

  • runujhkj

    But since there are an infinite number of possible gods, it is equally likely that the “one true god” won’t be petty enough to want people worshiping his holiness every Sunday. Maybe he even punishes those who do.

    Not to mention how offensive it is to religious people to believe in a higher power purely for one’s own best interests.

  • runujhkj

    I think that’s what he was saying. You may have missed the sarcastic point.

  • runujhkj

    Does anyone ever mean Joe?

    Fuck Joe.

  • Ahmed Ata Razeq

    1 – To Disinfino: I don’t really see how Russel’s Teapot fits in here? Is it because it’s not up to you to disprove God’s existence, because I’m not trying to prove God’s existence just a simple reason to maybe start believing.

    2 – To VoxMagi: On a note I’m an undergrad as a Bio/Philosophy double major and only one semester to go; so it’s not that it had a big impression on me.

    Also when you say “The Wager makes a presumption that belief does no harm and might potentially offer great good in the future…Quite the opposite is true. It does enormous harm”, in what sense do you mean? Are you saying you can’t both be a theist and rational because I do beg to differ; and not looking at history or paraphrasing holy texts in what sense does religion tell people to participate in crimes against humans. It’s not religion that pushes people to do stupid, crazy, or irrational things no that’s all voluntary.

    I’m not trying to convince anyone with Pascal’s wager, but how do you want to explain the form of “humanity”; are you willing to compare us to behavioristic animals because I’m definitely not. We are rational thinkers and that isn’t something that comes with evolution like an enhanced brain or other features might. Even the Grecian’s noticed that a soul is something that only (at least as far as we know) humans have, and are you going to give me some (sorry) BS theoretical idea as to how people all of a sudden stumbled upon a soul. Plato had to say our soul is the center of all knowledge and that our knowledge is given to us by the form of good, the ultimate reality (God?). I can’t compare myself to great philosophers but I do think God exists.

  • Andrew

    Incorporation is OBVIOUSLY unconstitutional according to the tenth Amendment unless in cases that CLEARLY restrict the rights of citizens. People praying at a legislative meeting in no way restricts anyone’s rights and is thus the legitimate form of the doctrine of incorporation does not apply to this case. Your ignorance and lack of logic are so blatant I’m surprised you mustered the balls to even post knowing how ashamed you must be in the lack of substance in your post.

  • http://twitter.com/MrMusicalLion Bradley Dean

    There is no excuse for hatred whether or not you believe in a God.
    I am yet to see a single problem solved through hate.
    Trying to solve a problem with hate is like trying to put out a fire with oil.

    As for the existance of a God,
    Well, what if there is a God?
    I’m not forcing anyone to believe/disbelieve. It’s an open question/thought.
    I think that if there is a God,
    then what is that God like?
    Is that God violent, hypocritical, quick to judge…?
    Sounds more like the workings of a dictator to me.

    If someone says that they believe in God, I have nothing wrong with that
    As long as they believe in a fair God, fine.
    It’s the people who think that God wants to kill everyone and punish the unbelievers, it’s those people that I do not have any time for at all.

  • Quais

    By saying Church of Science, I think APR means that people follow so called ‘skeptical scientists’ blindly sometimes… just about, if not as blindly as religions. Which is true, it isn’t silly, silly.

    “Oh, he’s a scientist and worked at the Stanford Research Institute for TEN years, he has a PHD! He MUST know what he’s talking about.” *drooooool*

    Just because a person is called a scientist, doesn’t mean they aren’t a complete and utter liar and have alterior motives…

  • Surrealias

    I think you’re speaking to the majority of white people in america, wtf… you sound just as bitchy as the rest to me!

    Go tell that shit to the native Hawaiins, or to a congregation of black people in Kentucky. Cause they’ve had so much freedom of religion, eh?! Go try doing a muslim or haitian prayer in down-town texas or arizona. Then come chat about freedom of religion in america.

  • Will

    Theists are like parrots repeating the ever changing dogma spewed by the leader of whatever church they attend. They have no freedom of thought and no opinion that is of their own making. Zombies comes to mind.Terrifying zombies that keep knocking at my door even though I show no interest in joining their church.

  • Will

    Theists are like parrots repeating the ever changing dogma spewed by the leader of whatever church they attend. They have no freedom of thought and no opinion that is of their own making. Zombies comes to mind.Terrifying zombies that keep knocking at my door even though I show no interest in joining their church.

  • Oeuf

    A camera filming stuff in a fascist-infested building is a lot like a cross and a bible in a demon-infested home. The camera and the two mentioned religious objects are very innocent on their own…. so why are fascists afraid of cameras and demons afraid of crosses? Oof

  • Oeuf

    A camera filming stuff in a fascist-infested building is a lot like a cross and a bible in a demon-infested home. The camera and the two mentioned religious objects are very innocent on their own…. so why are fascists afraid of cameras and demons afraid of crosses? Oof

  • Shanabell69

    how DARE this country treat a citizen in such a manner! I thought we all had the freedom to believe or NOT believe in prayer and NOONE should be forced to pray! Damn to all those christians (this spellcheck thing even tells me i should capitalize the word christian) who think THEY are? above the law? NO they are NOT. Christians are not right and deserve to get their asses handed to them. Amen? fuck that! Atheist need to wake up and take back this country from such evils! Oh and if you think the constitution was written to be forgotten you are not a true American.

    • Bnova

      Fact check…he wasn’t forced to pray he could have left the assembly at any time he wished how however he did choose to be disruptive and for that he got his ass kicked, way to stick it to the Christian majority. :)

  • Shanabell69

    how DARE this country treat a citizen in such a manner! I thought we all had the freedom to believe or NOT believe in prayer and NOONE should be forced to pray! Damn to all those christians (this spellcheck thing even tells me i should capitalize the word christian) who think THEY are? above the law? NO they are NOT. Christians are not right and deserve to get their asses handed to them. Amen? fuck that! Atheist need to wake up and take back this country from such evils! Oh and if you think the constitution was written to be forgotten you are not a true American.

  • Shanabell69

    A true Atheist doesnt believe anything without proof of its existance. So far there have been NO clear proof of the existance of a god. Also its the opposite of blind to try and find supporting facts to draw a conclusion from. That is when you truly have your eyes open, even in the face of fear and opposition of others. So how is religion or the belief in a higher power not blind?

  • Shanabell69

    no christian feel the need to explain themselves when there is NO explanation. That is a typical theologian response. Thanks for living up to the stereotypes! Your VERY blind! You say to PICK ONE?!? That is the dumbest statement ever made. If you knew ANYTHING about other religions you would know not ALL believe in eternal damnation. Thats a CHRISTIAN! gotta love the stupidity. It helps in supporting my belief that NO MAN knows what is true and what is not. If there is a god he isnt making himself look very good saving only blind morons.

  • Shanabell69

    You cant make me think cause you have no brain! I do that without your help thank you!

  • Shanabell69

    opinions are like assholes! everyone has one! yours just covers your entire being and you shit on everyone elses!

  • Shanabell69

    you need to shut your mouth with your holier than thou atitude. MAYBE YOUR NOT RIGHT!?! think about it … the world ISNT the center of the universe and if there is a god he certainly doesnt have time for our petty existance or whether or not we believe in him. If he exists he hasnt done a good job as god. All the wars throughout history have been due to religion in one way or the other. Early Christians believed it was okay to own black people because they said they were cursed decendants of Cain. Well guess what??? Science says we all come from a black women. Think about that…. and get back to me w an answer cause it seems that if christianity is right it would have ALWAYS been right but it hasnt. Its been proven wrong time and time again. People actually believe that the earth is 6000 years old STILL! Even with substantial proof to the contrary. How many times can a religion be proven WRONG before people realize it? Its always the slow to react ones that stick to the teachings they learned as small children. Did you ever think that hell was just a way to SCARE little children and slow adults into believing? Probley not…wouldnt want to burn in hell! LMAO

  • Shanabell69

    church of science? WOW what a dumbass! Science is NOTHING like religion.

  • Shanabell69

    i agree! i say that athiest need to show up more in those meetings and speak up!

  • Shanabell69

    SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! clear as day in the constitution! That is why the guy that got assulted actually WON!!!! You are a piece of work and need to do your damn research or get the hell out of America cause you are NOT American at all!

  • Shanabell69

    YES IT IS! It was part of the reason we got away from England! For the freedom against having to listen to prayer when one doesnt want to! Freedom from religious tyriany. Quite a few of the founding fathers of this country and others throughout history including Thomas Jefferson have been trying to get that point across! You have NO RIGHT to pray in a public government meeting! GET OVER IT AND GET A F-ING LIFE.

  • Shanabell69

    YOUR WRONG try again! child

  • Shanabell69

    I HAVE READ ALL OF IT AND HES RIGHT it is very poorly concieved and HYPACRITICAL in every way. It is a huge contradiction from cover to cover. I guess thats why they felt the need to seperate the two books into old and new. Its ALL bullshit to me.

  • Shanabell69

    No actually due to science christians are quickly becoming the minority. America is a little slow to change but over half of Europeans are ATHEISTS and the numbers are sure to grow now that the internet is here to spread the TRUTH and not a bunch of preconceived notions from thousands of years ago!

  • Shanabell69

    keep calling people fools and see where that gets you. God doesnt like ugly ( if he is real that is) and you are all kinds of ugly and hateful.

  • Shanabell69

    Honestly its not about whether the prayer “hurt” anyone. It is a CLEAR violation of the constitution! It is wrong and if someone wants to pray they can do it in private under their damn breath. Why do they have to do it outloud? Answer that before you get so irate. You are what is wrong w the world. SO WHAT IT IS AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION?!? WOW you are such a non american and you dont deserve the privalige of being free because you dont even realize that is ALL WE HAVE AS AMERICANS> If you say so what against violating the rules of the land you are no better than a terrorist. Oh and your a fucking bitch loser

  • Shanabell69

    thats what it will lead to if the christians had their way! They would stone all nonbelievers cause it says to do so in their holy text!

  • Shanabell69

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.[17] also, Another early user of the term was James Madison, the principal drafter of the United States Bill of Rights. In a 1789 debate in the House of Representatives regarding the draft of the First Amendment, the following was said:

    August 15, 1789. Mr. [Peter] Sylvester [of New York] had some doubts…He feared it [the First Amendment] might be thought to have a tendency to abolish religion altogether…Mr. [Elbridge] Gerry [of Massachusetts] said it would read better if it was that “no religious doctrine shall be established by law.”…Mr. [James] Madison [of Virginia] said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that “Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law.”…[T]he State[s]…seemed to entertain an opinion that under the clause of the Constitution…it enabled them [Congress] to make laws of such a nature as might…establish a national religion; to prevent these effects he presumed the amendment was intended…Mr. Madison thought if the word “National” was inserted before religion, it would satisfy the minds of honorable gentlemen…He thought if the word “national” was introduced, it would point the amendment directly to the object it was intended to prevent.[18]

  • Shanabell69

    IT says separation of CHURCH AND STATE>>>STATE>>>>STATE dumbass

  • Shanabell69

    no it isnt have YOU ever read the constitution? I have! and it CLEARLY states it is a violation

  • Shanabell69

    The founding of the United States of America took place in 1787 with the signing of the Constitution, which is a purely secular document. In relation to religion the Constitution states:

    Article VI: Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
    The founding of the United States of America took place in 1787 with the signing of the Constitution, which is a purely secular document. In relation to religion the Constitution states:

    Article VI: Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
    THIS IS WHY THE MAN WAS FOUND INNOCENT! IT CLEARLY STATES THAT RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN POLITICS! WE AS AMERICANS NEED TO UPHOLD OUR CONSTITUTION ABOVE THEISTS SPECULATIONS.

  • Shanabell69

    There is often debate about what exactly the First Amendment means, however, in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Thomas Jefferson made clear that the purpose of the First Amendment was to establish a “wall of separation” between Church and State in order to protect individuals’ right of conscience:

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
    heres MORE proof

  • Shanabell69

    yeah god is pretty stupid

  • Shanabell69

    you think you are better than everyone else but you are a loser who lives in a box with no windows

  • Shanabell69

    shut up please you just make yourself look dumb

  • Shanabell69

    burden of proof is VERY logical and what is illogical is believing whole heartedly in a book or scrolls really, from thousands of years ago with NO substantiated proof AT ALL

  • Shanabell69

    not in a public government meeting which is what this whole debate is about

  • Shanabell69

    im already being forced to tolerate others views so i dont know what the hell you are trying to say. I was raised baptist and am now agnostic, almost athiest but i have no proof that there ISNT a god so ill stick to i dont know…thats my church … the church of I DONT KNOW!

  • Shanabell69

    you are a judgemental hateful and empty human bieng. Keep it up!

  • Shanabell69

    excuse me but generalizing is very childish. NOT ALL AMERICANS believe in religion. and no i am not a scammer…i was just born here. Just like you were born where ever the hell it is ur from. To say all of a particular country believes the same way is IGNORANT. and i am not a scammer? what the hell is that? You are clearly an uneducated person looking for someone to hate on. Why do you not like me? what the hell did i do to you as a person to make you believe some stupid shit like that? You obviously have never been here and know NOTHING of this country so go fuck yourself. NOONE LIKES YOU AND I HAVE A REASON TO HATE YOU NOW>

  • Shanabell69

    ummmm…there are atheists here in america! it may come as a shock to you but you are WRONG! wow am i confusing you simpleton?

  • Shanabell69

    yeah but thats because some TERRORIST flew planes into our world trade center or have you forgotten? YOU ARE SO DUMB! we had to amp up security for the safety of all citizens. It doesnt bother me that i cannot carry a fucking nailclipper on a plane if it saves lives! Im sure your country would do the same in that situation if they havent already taken precautions. Its the evil RELIGIOUS terrorists that have ruined it for the rest of us.

  • Shanabell69

    just shut the fuck up andrew you are a loser! hahahahaha? seriously? how dumb are you?

  • Andrew
  • Luke

    “A true Atheist doesn’t believe anything without proof of its existence” True. But since the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproven, there is no proof of Gods non existence either. Therefore true atheism is somewhat irrational, IMO. Agnostic atheism is a more rational stance.

    Also, given that Gods existence can neither be proven nor disproven, can we all just happily let each other believe what we want as long as its not hurting (or potentially inciting hurt) anyone else??

  • Richard-Dawkins

    They deserved what they got.
    Atheists are rude, arrogant and disrespectful and for as much as they call for rules and regulations they certainly believe they are exempt from adhering to them.
    They could have lodged a complaint with the governor or taken a legal position but instead they resorted to their marxist professional career university deadbeat tactics and chose to stage a chimpout (with camera rolling of course)
    Just like all atheists they have RDS -relevance deprivation syndrome and just like all atheists they have to up the ante in obnoxiousness just to get attention.

    Jehovah is Lord God Almighty -get over it and thank your Creator for your existance.

  • Richard-Dawkins

    They deserved what they got.
    Atheists are rude, arrogant and disrespectful and for as much as they call for rules and regulations they certainly believe they are exempt from adhering to them.
    They could have lodged a complaint with the governor or taken a legal position but instead they resorted to their marxist professional career university deadbeat tactics and chose to stage a chimpout (with camera rolling of course)
    Just like all atheists they have RDS -relevance deprivation syndrome and just like all atheists they have to up the ante in obnoxiousness just to get attention.

    Jehovah is Lord God Almighty -get over it and thank your Creator for your existance.

    • ERM

      ‘GET OVER IT’? YOU FUCKING RING PIECE. I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT DON’T TELL ME ‘JEHOVAH IS LORD GOD ALMIGHTY – GET OVER IT’. YOU FUCKING RING PIECE.

  • Kalokane

    Kick the stinking Haoles out!

    You don’t like it, goe the hell home.

  • Kalokane

    Kick the stinking Haoles out!

    You don’t like it, goe the hell home.

  • Anonymous

    Atheists are unhappy, arrogant jackasses that wish their unhappiness on others.

  • Anonymous

    Atheists are unhappy, arrogant jackasses that wish their unhappiness on others.

  • dontlikeyou

    How rude that that asshole atheist interrupted a prayer. Who cares whether you believe or not, you don’t need to be an asshole about it. Atheists are unhappy, arrogant jackasses that wish their unhappiness on others.

    • linbegone

      Very xtian like of you. I wish you a long and happy life, but keep your silly superstitions to yourself.

  • Dhyannag

    Oh my goodness! This is one of the most terrifying, disheartening videos I’ve watched in a long time. Actually brought tears to my eyes to know that something like this happened in the US just a few months ago. And I must say that the beginning made my stomach turn, asking for god’s help and guidance in jesus’s name. Ug! At least it had a happy ending!

  • Dhyannag

    Oh my goodness! This is one of the most terrifying, disheartening videos I’ve watched in a long time. Actually brought tears to my eyes to know that something like this happened in the US just a few months ago. And I must say that the beginning made my stomach turn, asking for god’s help and guidance in jesus’s name. Ug! At least it had a happy ending!

  • Buttons

    no one hates religion encroachment into our legal system more than me, but the constitution says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    they can pray all they want unfortunately, they just can’t make laws saying you have to pray.

  • Buttons

    no one hates religion encroachment into our legal system more than me, but the constitution says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    they can pray all they want unfortunately, they just can’t make laws saying you have to pray.

    • Newt

      …yes, and rather than give equal air-time to 1001 religions before each and every public function, the government has decided just to skip the issue and get to work. Considering how little they actually accomplish, the idea of paying them to pray for 5 minutes is just over the top anyway.

      No preferential treatment. No *christian* prayers before governmental functions. It’s an easy concept.

  • delusional

    lol, saying that is like me telling you I have an invisible elephant that follows me around all the time, can you prove it or disprove it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1072029660 Jenni Allen

    You really think Atheists are not familiar with the faulty logic and poor faith of Pascal’s Wager. I think any honest Christian would reject such a gutless appeal to fear of hell, for it is not true faith. God would see past such a degrading reason for belief. I take Thomas Jefferson’s stance that; any god would honor reason over that of blind folded fear.If god is real, we need proof. Faith is never something we use in everyday life, as responsible adults, not in the court of law, not in our hospitals and clinics, not in education, not in engineering or technology, not in economics, not in any honest rational inquiry of what is the just, right or safe thing to do.

  • Iamroont

    “Also, given that Gods existence can neither be proven nor disproven, can we all just happily let each other believe what we want as long as its not hurting (or potentially inciting hurt) anyone else?? ”

    Yes, but as you can clearly see in the video above, a belief in god was what triggered those people to assault the man who was only trying to hold up the constitution. A belief in god is NOT harmless. It is NOT just a whim for people to take to heart and comfort themselves with. If it were I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But countless “witches” have been burned, countless jihad has been waged, and countless people die in the name of god all the time. harmless?

  • Iamroont

    no, actually, anti-theist is against THEISM! against RELIGION. Which I proudly am.

  • Iamroont

    I have read the bible and understood it very well to be a bunch of stories written up by men who would have thought a wheelbarrow to be amazing technology. They are stories to try and understand that which we COULDN’T understand at the time. The god of the bible is the exact same as Zeus or the other polytheistic gods. Do you still believe that lighting is caused when the gods are angry? no, because we understand nature a lot more then we did then.

  • Iamroont

    Well, if throughout history atheist have been burned to death and worse, it was IMPOSSIBLE to say that you didnt believe in god without putting your life in danger in the past. Now that we’ve moved past that and atheists actually have a voice and can use it, we’re going to fucking use it.

  • Zel

    I find it amazing that people are so willing to go out of their way to get what they want… this was done for a specific result in mind and they achieved it. They are trying to prove a point but what they really proved was the need for attention to put THEIR point across. Never mind anyone else who was in the building, it offended THEM. I’ll tell you what, instead of going into buildings, being incredibly rude, and trying to portray this image- why not go after the banks that are robbing people of their money and homes, the government lies, taxes, the illusion that democracy exists in this country or if your such a humanitarian for human rights- why not give to charities, feed the poor, and educate people on the need to help others… no, lets instead be the egotistical apathetic people that we are and stand there and scream and cry like a five year old that having any kind of belief is ‘unconstitutional’ in this land of promises, dreams, and democracy.

  • Zel

    I find it amazing that people are so willing to go out of their way to get what they want… this was done for a specific result in mind and they achieved it. They are trying to prove a point but what they really proved was the need for attention to put THEIR point across. Never mind anyone else who was in the building, it offended THEM. I’ll tell you what, instead of going into buildings, being incredibly rude, and trying to portray this image- why not go after the banks that are robbing people of their money and homes, the government lies, taxes, the illusion that democracy exists in this country or if your such a humanitarian for human rights- why not give to charities, feed the poor, and educate people on the need to help others… no, lets instead be the egotistical apathetic people that we are and stand there and scream and cry like a five year old that having any kind of belief is ‘unconstitutional’ in this land of promises, dreams, and democracy.

  • Zel

    Same can be applied to evolution.

  • Zel

    Believing in something is ignorant?

  • Zel

    First off, slaves were used in every culture. And in fact, not all slaves were African/African-American. That is pure human ignorance, nothing to do with God or religion. And there is nowhere in the Bible that says early Christians owned slaves because of Cain? First, they weren’t Christian they practiced Judaism. Second, everyone came from a “black woman”? Can you explain that to me please? And third, religion is a way to scare little children and ‘slow adults” into believing in hell? What were you taught as a child? Seems you need to get your facts straight. Religion has been corrupted by MAN not by God. Learn who to blame.

  • Zel

    Than why does our money say, “IN GOD WE TRUST?” If, as you claim the original constitution was written to separate church and state.

  • Zel

    Thank you.

  • Zel

    Well, of course he won, with a corrupt government. But, bring him to court for not paying taxes and they will hang him.

  • Zel

    Wow. And that statement wasn’t full of hatred, ego driven apathy for other human beings. Cool man.

  • Zel

    So are you saying just because someone else believes something everyone should because its the truth? Hmmm… your sounding a bit hypocritical to me. Try again.

  • Zel

    Again, where are you getting your facts? Or is this pure ignorance, again.

  • Andrew

    Because Money is god.

  • Zel

    Must be easy to copy and paste others ideas. And I thought atheist thought for themselves!

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Sorry for the delay…my Disqus alerts have been getting pegged as spam for some reason.

    A) With regard to the wager, Pascal presupposes that we gain for belief, even doubting belief that grows with time, and possibly lose all in the even of non-belief. What we gain, theoretically, is Heaven, or access thereto. What we lose in the event of wasted belief is proclaimed to be nothing at all. The fallacy is that the ‘nothing’ which we lose through wasted belief is actually comprised of intangibles that do, ultimately, have a collective impact on our immediate and physical existence. Imagine a world where emotional, moral, intellectual and physical effort was not misspent on fallacy…it isn’t easy to tally the effects, because we deal in potentiality. We can assert that effort is spent and maintained in belief…but how do we tally where that effort would be spent if the world had no belief in supreme being myths and invested that thought and effort and energy into more legitimate concerns. So leaving aside the traditional claim that the unnecessary divisions between faiths eventually lead to violence and cruelty of both emotional and physical nature, if all we measure is the value of the misspent effort, then yes…belief in false myths that shape the way we interact with the world and plan for our well being IS harmful.

    B) As for the form of humanity, there is nothing substantive to mark us as anything more than a large brained animal that developed a strong knack for abstract thought. The capacity to learn, adapt, dream, imagine and even deduct from short term experiences exist in even lower orders of creatures, so there is no conflict with evolution of any kind. To believe, on the other hand, that it is not possible for such a capacity for reason to refine and develop as an advantage through natural processes is almost laughably arrogant when one weighs the probability, even near inevitability, that life would favor advantages that produce regular benefits (as intelligence clearly does), thereby making the evolution of a creature with a fully rational mind a very likely possibility rather than a possibility which could never have come about by any means other than divine intervention.

    As for the soul…it too is an intangible concept, and while I believe we possess consciousness, that does not add up to some guarantee of eternal life alongside a supreme being. I have no BS theoretical notions about the existence of a divine soul in all of us spontaneously happening without a divine being…and thus I have nothing to believe in other than the conscious minds we all possess, each accumulating experiences over a life time and ceasing utterly to exist after death.

    Contrary to what one might expect, this doesn’t generate a nihilistic view of the world, but rather an amazement at its complexity and an awe of the odds involved…as well as a profound value placed upon the time we spend alive…because that time spent in life is all the more important and precious when we take away the horrifying lie of an eternal bliss for which people sacrifice much rather than investing in reality.

    At the end of the day, the rationality some praise as our divinely granted virtue seems to have allowed us to believe in a accepting long term investments of effort into short term ‘feel good’ expressions of faith…at the expense of much more pressing needs…even needs that might constitute ‘survival’ related issues. This is grossly illogical…unless one first accepts that ‘eternal life’ is more important actual, immediate life…and thus our collective efforts are completely squandered, generation after generation. I do not accept that this wasted effort is ‘nothing lost’ as per the wager…I consider it a debilitating illness that plagues us as cruelly as famine, disaster or disease.

  • Michael Price

    If it isn’t why you believe in God why bring it up? And why defend it? Pascal’s wager assumes an enormous amount of information he doesn’t have, for instance that the supreme being values belief in him highly, or indeed at all. Believing because it benefits you is a mental process that gets easier the more you do it. Believing in God for a benefit makes it more likely that you will believe in other things to benefit you, even if these things aren’t supported by evidence or are even contradicted by it. Since believing in things that aren’t supported by evidence is generally bad (morally and practically) Pascal’s wager has effectively a very high cost, not a zero one.

  • guest

    although i agree that separate of church and state might be important if following law.
    Any true human being would understand and respect others believes and religions.
    I admit i would be questioning the people that bring god into a courtroom , or into any senate or congress.
    But at the same time , i would respect that god is here to stay , even if some believe he isn’t real.
    Where did the respect go America?
    First to the worshippers who became violent when they should not judge , least they be judge themselves.
    And
    Second to the ones becomming violent themselves in the prayer by disrespecting there choice to pray.

    Yes theres laws and such , but still can’t we be more civil

    • linbegone

      That word respect should also be used by xtians towards non-believers.

      If you wish me to respect any religion it would first have to show itself worthy of respect. If believers wish respect from me then stop shoving your god into my life and forcing your moralities on everyone.

      And seriously, I can’t respect people that actually believe in magic, genocide and oppression of free thoughts.

      I find it funny that god never gave his flock the ability to laugh at themselves.

  • guest

    although i agree that separate of church and state might be important if following law.
    Any true human being would understand and respect others believes and religions.
    I admit i would be questioning the people that bring god into a courtroom , or into any senate or congress.
    But at the same time , i would respect that god is here to stay , even if some believe he isn’t real.
    Where did the respect go America?
    First to the worshippers who became violent when they should not judge , least they be judge themselves.
    And
    Second to the ones becomming violent themselves in the prayer by disrespecting there choice to pray.

    Yes theres laws and such , but still can’t we be more civil

  • Yiggoto

    Why do I deny the existance of God? There is no evidence for any god. That’s why.

  • justagirl

    of course, you are referring to the “comment” section of that article (?)

  • Shanabell69

    i am speaking of the slaves of AMERICA since we are discussing AMERICAN LAW idiot

  • Andrew

    No, I’m referring to the human body.

  • Andrew

    No, I’m referring to the human body.

  • Shanabell69

    religion is a PRODUCT OF MAN! what the hell do u think its from? Man wrote the bible right? I was raised Babtist and i know what christianity is and the teachings of the church. So you are going to tell me that Early Americans didnt own slaves?? That is ignoranance to think otherwise. The PROOF you are looking for that we all came from a Black woman can be found in our geneome. Science has PROVEN that. You cannot argue with a substantiated fact. Religion has always been the downfall of man and it always will be unless Athiest stand up and speak the TRUTH. Have you even read the Old Testiment???? It is so contridictory to the New Testiment it almost would take a retard to not notice. I know that it isnt in the bible that Cains decendants are black that is my point!!!! Christians will say anything as fact whether it is or not. Judaism is a religion and it is evil the same as Christianity. So dont try to twist the shit or change the subject to fit your arguements cause that is all you have done. You need to reread what i initially wrote cause you obviously misinterpreted everything i said. Why are you putting black women in quotations? ….. just nevermind you are too low on the intellectual scale to even argue with.

  • Shanabell69

    SCIENCE ISNT A CHURCH! we dont rely on faith as religion does. We rely on proven substantiated facts and the evidence to support it. Not some holy text from thousands of years ago!

  • justagirl

    frightfully amazing isn’t it (?)

  • Shanabell69

    it is silly. Most atheists dont claim that science has all the answers either. It is looking for them which isnt blind at all. Religion is blind as they come! How can you prove something written thousands of years ago? You cant! At least with science you can do experiments yourself and find the truth!

  • Shanabell69

    listen IT IS PART OF THE CONSTITUTION SO YOU LOOK IT UP! Noone owes you an explination anyway. The guy was found NOT GUILTY! That is proof in itself he had a right to stand up and speak out. CHURCH is the ONLY place anyone should have to listen to prayer. Its not like there arnt TONS of churches to go to if you want to pray! IT is against human law to be forced to listen to prayer in a state house. What if they were praying to ALAH. Same god supposedly

  • Shanabell69

    that letter was put into the constitution by Thomas Jefferson!!!

  • Shanabell69

    the guy won because the JUDGE followed the LAW! It would be corrupt if he DIDNT win! That is retarded!

  • Shanabell69

    it is poorly conceived just like your responses

  • Shanabell69

    I never said that because someone else believes something it is right or wrong. That would make me a religious nut like yourself. I dont follow the herd of sheep. I believe it is right because I believe it to be. IT has nothing to do with the numbers at all!

  • Andrew

    Nope. It’s rather pathetic, actually.

  • justagirl

    interesting. were you swayed by the article?

  • Andrew

    No.

  • justagirl

    me neither.
    are you an atheist who thinks that god is stupid?

  • Andrew

    If I had to place myself, it would be somewhere between dystheism and ignosticism.

  • Watetune4

    Here’s a rare look at one of their most beautiful songs. I felt lucky to have found this. Enjoy !

  • Watetune4

    Here’s a rare look at one of their most beautiful songs. I felt lucky to have found this. Enjoy !

  • ERM

    ‘GET OVER IT’? YOU FUCKING RING PIECE. I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT DON’T TELL ME ‘JEHOVAH IS LORD GOD ALMIGHTY – GET OVER IT’. YOU FUCKING RING PIECE.

  • Andrew

    …Jefferson wasn’t directly involved in the crafting of the Constitution. Also, his use of “state” in the letter was referencing the national government.

  • Andrew

    …that does not clearly state anything to that effect. All it does is say that no office can require a religious test. Having a prayer during a state assembly is not illegal according to the Constitution. Anybody with a high school level of reading comprehension could see that

  • Andrew

    No, burden of proof is NOT logical. Burden of proof assumes things false before they are proven true. This sentiment is illogical because proving something doesn’t MAKE it true, it just SHOWS that they are true. People who believed the world was round before it was proven to be round were CORRECT logically and factually, but incorrect according to the science of the time because it had yet to be proven. As you can see, being scientifically incorrect does not mean that something is actually incorrect and thus assuming people are objectively wrong when they have yet to prove something is illogical.

  • Newt

    The courts have a way of essentially finding in favor of “common sense.”

    “Common sense” dictates; this guy asked for it. You don’t get to insert yourself in a legal proceeding and just start disrupting it. The disruption and arguable assault are completely independent of the separation of hurch and state issue. If I’m reading/watching this right, the guy with the camera – innocent as a churchmouse. Ben Villaflor ought to be in jail.

    Moving along, separation of church and state; EVERY session they do that? Unacceptable.

  • Newt

    The courts have a way of essentially finding in favor of “common sense.”

    “Common sense” dictates; this guy asked for it. You don’t get to insert yourself in a legal proceeding and just start disrupting it. The disruption and arguable assault are completely independent of the separation of hurch and state issue. If I’m reading/watching this right, the guy with the camera – innocent as a churchmouse. Ben Villaflor ought to be in jail.

    Moving along, separation of church and state; EVERY session they do that? Unacceptable.

  • Newt

    The problem is that this assembly has been asked before to stop it, by a judge, and they *keep* freaking praying before meetings. What *they* are doing is illegal, and when the annoying guy with the ponytail and cargo shorts objected to it, they had him roughed up and incarcerated.

    Where they got off socking and jailing the cameraguy I have no idea. That bit’s just seriously, clearly, unequivocally illegal.

    The moral of this story is, watch out when speaking truth to power. It’s best done anonymously and with a threat behind it (Legal threats like boycotts, of course…)

  • Newt

    Oh come ON. Yes, so next week? When Michigan declares itself an Islamic state, that’s fine right? Buttmonkey. If it weren’t for the Feds, we wouldn’t have Hawaii as a state at all.

    If you want to split hairs to the point of retardation, it doesn’t specifically EXCLUDE Hawaii’s state legislature either, as in “…Except for Hawaii. They can do christian prayers at the start of meetings and hire ex-boxers to punch innocent cameramen.” …since there’s no specific provision for that, I guess we can assume it’s illegal under the usual assault and separation of state laws.

  • Newt

    Soooo – high school graduate, or liberal arts major? You’re not a science major, that’s for sure…

  • Newt

    …yes, and rather than give equal air-time to 1001 religions before each and every public function, the government has decided just to skip the issue and get to work. Considering how little they actually accomplish, the idea of paying them to pray for 5 minutes is just over the top anyway.

    No preferential treatment. No *christian* prayers before governmental functions. It’s an easy concept.

  • Newt

    Fourth’d. The church/state separation argument can go on til the sun burns out for all I care, but the “Government officials trying not to get caught lawbreaking on film” phenomenon is something that ought to be punished, as severely as possible, each and every time it happens.

  • Slunkmonky

    Even if fear of hell were a reason to believe,, then which hell should we try to avoid? In trying to avoid on you end up destined for another.

  • henmo43

    gdfgdfgdfgdfgdfgfdfds

  • henmo43

    gdfgdfgdfgdfgdfgfdfds

    • Massie16

      good point

  • dizzy

    “Well, of course he won, with a corrupt government.” <——seriously? i'm not even gonna touch that.

    the point here is, and no one can deny, that the way these men were treated is completely unacceptable. it was a bitch move, god or no god.

  • dizzy

    “religion is like a penis, it’s good to have one but dont go whipping it out and waving it around. and you should definately go to jail if you try to force it down peoples throats.”

    WIN! this just became my new favorite quote. lmao.

  • Marcodbeast

    See ‘R. J. Rushdoony’, ‘Gary North’

  • Marcodbeast

    Tell it to the judge.

  • Marcodbeast

    Nonsense reply.

  • Qwyzl

    i would like to point out that before “christianity” came along, the hawaiians had their OWN gods, their OWN beliefs their OWN religion. and i’m sure these beliefs may have varied from island to island. if any god is observed during prayer, it should those of the hawaiians. there’s an old saying: “when in rome, do as the romans”. the same goes for the continent of north america. we should be observing, if any gods, those of the cherokee, the lakota, the mohawk, the navajo, etc. NOT some “god” who was imported from arabia. and if you’ve ever read the bible, you would soon come to see that this “jealous” god of arabia behaves more like a demon hell bent on vengeance than a kind, loving being who wants only the best for “his” children…..

  • Qwyzl

    i would like to point out that before “christianity” came along, the hawaiians had their OWN gods, their OWN beliefs their OWN religion. and i’m sure these beliefs may have varied from island to island. if any god is observed during prayer, it should those of the hawaiians. there’s an old saying: “when in rome, do as the romans”. the same goes for the continent of north america. we should be observing, if any gods, those of the cherokee, the lakota, the mohawk, the navajo, etc. NOT some “god” who was imported from arabia. and if you’ve ever read the bible, you would soon come to see that this “jealous” god of arabia behaves more like a demon hell bent on vengeance than a kind, loving being who wants only the best for “his” children…..

  • frontviewsuksdick

    American atheist here wtf piece of shit country to you come from you smug faggot?

  • zelol

    evolution has physical testable evidence backing it up. You have a 3000 year old book that says we are all sinful because some skank named eve ate from the wrong fucking apple tree.

  • Massie16

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

  • Massie16

    yes it is read the bill of rights

  • Massie16

    They added that in during the civil war our money used to say Liberty instead

  • Massie16

    Its in Leviticus. PLEASE READ THE BOOK YOU BASE YOUR LIFE ON

  • Massie16

    your texas bashing offends me

  • Massie16

    The constitution is the supreme law of the land it supercedes the states

  • Massie16

    the idea does though it is just worded differently

  • Massie16

    the idea does though it is just worded differently

  • Massie16

    good point

  • Mike

    Ahh, you are correct, but the benefit of the religious structure has completely been replaced by modern societal structures, like any first world government (another big one is education for all). I’m sorry, but the religion bandwagon is on it’s way out, all independently minded bright individuals would benefit from not following infantile dogma.

  • Mike

    Just to remind you, and keep you on task, the issue has nothing to do with a god. Or multiples of them. The argument lies with the man made construct of religion; in all it’s many forms.

    Our religions were evolved and designed by our ancestors over many years, it’s success was through fear, word of mouth, from parent to child. A very good system for any sort of information in non-free conditions, and when you are uneducated.

  • Dreamsofchaos820

    jesus christ i hate christians.

  • Dreamsofchaos820

    jesus christ i hate christians.

  • Bazblack

    yes, but it violates the true constitution, the real one before congress changed it years ago

  • Larss

    This site is getting far-too anti-religious. If you think that religion is and has been holding back your grand scheme of a utopian society filled with nothing but geniuses, then you’re out of your fucking mind.

  • Larss

    This site is getting far-too anti-religious. If you think that religion is and has been holding back your grand scheme of a utopian society filled with nothing but geniuses, then you’re out of your fucking mind.

    • Larss

      Oh, and btw, look at what happened to Michael Riviera’s site after he went off the deep end on Catholics. Not pretty.

      • Andrew

        And that veiled threat is supposed to convince us that religion doesn’t inspire violence and irrationality?

    • Andrew

      Interesting that you’d make that comment to this particular article.

    • Guest

      No. This is about freedoms in this country being trampled on by far right extremists.

  • Larss

    Oh, and btw, look at what happened to Michael Riviera’s site after he went off the deep end on Catholics. Not pretty.

  • Andrew

    Interesting that you’d make that comment to this particular article.

  • Andrew

    And that veiled threat is supposed to convince us that religion doesn’t inspire violence and irrationality?

  • Anonymous

    And don’t forget about the fourteenth amendment, which made the Bill of Rights applicable to the States.

  • Anonymous

    And don’t forget about the fourteenth amendment, which made the Bill of Rights applicable to the States.

  • hahaha

    Blah, blah, blah…….what?

  • SL19

    The issue isn’t about whether or not there IS a God. That’s not what the point of this video is, and everyone commenting and arguing about it has completely missed it. The point is that these two activists were attacked for their beliefs. Yes, their approach was unorthodox to say the least (but of course, isn’t that true of all activists?) but it came from a real basis: the United States DOES have a law separating Church from State. By bringing a Christian prayer into a government building you break that law and break the rights of any none Christian who would feel uncomfortable with it. Apparently this isn’t the first time these activists have complained about the State Capitol’s policy, but this was their first PUBLIC complaint.

    Now, dragging a man out and beating up him and his cameraman for a legitimate argument and pointing out something that really SHOULD be illegal is not appropriate in any way, shape or form. I really hope that all the security who was involved in beating them gets punished fairly. You can’t tell from the camera footage whether or not Kahle provoked the men (he’s off screen before Hughes starts filming him getting beaten, so for all anyone watching the footage could know he COULD have tried to take a swing at one of the officers) but you can CLEARLY tell that his cameraman is SHOVED and then PUNCHED because he’s filming it (which is also in his rights) and then he’s obviously being assaulted from the way the camera starts to move sporadically. This can lead one to assume that Kahles probably (I’m not saying definitely) didn’t threaten the officers either and they literally just chose to beat him up, shattering his and Hughes rights.

    THAT is absolutely disgusting and the issue here! The issue isn’t the fact that these two are ATHEISTS who were beaten up, the issue is that they were CIVILIANS who were beaten up for DEFENDING THEIR RIGHTS. America, land of the free, eh?

  • SL19

    The issue isn’t about whether or not there IS a God. That’s not what the point of this video is, and everyone commenting and arguing about it has completely missed it. The point is that these two activists were attacked for their beliefs. Yes, their approach was unorthodox to say the least (but of course, isn’t that true of all activists?) but it came from a real basis: the United States DOES have a law separating Church from State. By bringing a Christian prayer into a government building you break that law and break the rights of any none Christian who would feel uncomfortable with it. Apparently this isn’t the first time these activists have complained about the State Capitol’s policy, but this was their first PUBLIC complaint.

    Now, dragging a man out and beating up him and his cameraman for a legitimate argument and pointing out something that really SHOULD be illegal is not appropriate in any way, shape or form. I really hope that all the security who was involved in beating them gets punished fairly. You can’t tell from the camera footage whether or not Kahle provoked the men (he’s off screen before Hughes starts filming him getting beaten, so for all anyone watching the footage could know he COULD have tried to take a swing at one of the officers) but you can CLEARLY tell that his cameraman is SHOVED and then PUNCHED because he’s filming it (which is also in his rights) and then he’s obviously being assaulted from the way the camera starts to move sporadically. This can lead one to assume that Kahles probably (I’m not saying definitely) didn’t threaten the officers either and they literally just chose to beat him up, shattering his and Hughes rights.

    THAT is absolutely disgusting and the issue here! The issue isn’t the fact that these two are ATHEISTS who were beaten up, the issue is that they were CIVILIANS who were beaten up for DEFENDING THEIR RIGHTS. America, land of the free, eh?

  • SL19

    The issue isn’t about whether or not there IS a God. That’s not what the point of this video is, and everyone commenting and arguing about it has completely missed it. The point is that these two activists were attacked for their beliefs. Yes, their approach was unorthodox to say the least (but of course, isn’t that true of all activists?) but it came from a real basis: the United States DOES have a law separating Church from State. By bringing a Christian prayer into a government building you break that law and break the rights of any none Christian who would feel uncomfortable with it. Apparently this isn’t the first time these activists have complained about the State Capitol’s policy, but this was their first PUBLIC complaint.

    Now, dragging a man out and beating up him and his cameraman for a legitimate argument and pointing out something that really SHOULD be illegal is not appropriate in any way, shape or form. I really hope that all the security who was involved in beating them gets punished fairly. You can’t tell from the camera footage whether or not Kahle provoked the men (he’s off screen before Hughes starts filming him getting beaten, so for all anyone watching the footage could know he COULD have tried to take a swing at one of the officers) but you can CLEARLY tell that his cameraman is SHOVED and then PUNCHED because he’s filming it (which is also in his rights) and then he’s obviously being assaulted from the way the camera starts to move sporadically. This can lead one to assume that Kahles probably (I’m not saying definitely) didn’t threaten the officers either and they literally just chose to beat him up, shattering his and Hughes rights.

    THAT is absolutely disgusting and the issue here! The issue isn’t the fact that these two are ATHEISTS who were beaten up, the issue is that they were CIVILIANS who were beaten up for DEFENDING THEIR RIGHTS. America, land of the free, eh?

  • freethinker55

    @ bmac…I couldn’t have said it better myself….bravo!

  • Rlfranks

    whether the protesters were atheists or not does not matter

  • Rlfranks

    whether the protesters were atheists or not does not matter

  • Lunashamana

    More shame on Christ’s name. These people obviously went there to remind this insular group about the separation of church and state, not to brawl. A true ‘christian’ would turn the other cheek, with a baseline of respect for their fellow person, no matter their beliefs. Now these ‘christians’ are going to really feel the law breathing down their necks. Let’s pray on that, brother.

  • Lunashamana

    More shame on Christ’s name. These people obviously went there to remind this insular group about the separation of church and state, not to brawl. A true ‘christian’ would turn the other cheek, with a baseline of respect for their fellow person, no matter their beliefs. Now these ‘christians’ are going to really feel the law breathing down their necks. Let’s pray on that, brother.

  • Anonymous

    No. This is about freedoms in this country being trampled on by far right extremists.

  • Monty

    All of you are wrong…wrong…wrong. He wasn’t removed because of his beliefs OR convictions. He was removed because he was disruptive as all zealots are. He is just another sensationalist whose job it is to get in the news. If he wants to follow the Roberts Rules of Order, he can get up to the microphone and blab his diatribe until his tounge hangs out. Of course, everyone will take a lunch break while he’s doing this and it will pass unnoticed. To get attention he must create a ‘scene’…preferaby one that looks like he is being unfairly beaten because of his passionate beliefs when all the while, he is simply being removed because he is disruptive. If he was disruptive in a movie theater the same thing would happen-sans all the political drama.

    I’m from the 60′s. I know how to stage a demonstration. All of you are falling in his trap. Ha!

  • Monty

    All of you are wrong…wrong…wrong. He wasn’t removed because of his beliefs OR convictions. He was removed because he was disruptive as all zealots are. He is just another sensationalist whose job it is to get in the news. If he wants to follow the Roberts Rules of Order, he can get up to the microphone and blab his diatribe until his tounge hangs out. Of course, everyone will take a lunch break while he’s doing this and it will pass unnoticed. To get attention he must create a ‘scene’…preferaby one that looks like he is being unfairly beaten because of his passionate beliefs when all the while, he is simply being removed because he is disruptive. If he was disruptive in a movie theater the same thing would happen-sans all the political drama.

    I’m from the 60′s. I know how to stage a demonstration. All of you are falling in his trap. Ha!

  • JesusIsAZombie

    Isn’t xianity lovely. Not.

    Members of the cult of zombie Jesus have just shown that they are intolerant thugs.

  • JesusIsAZombie

    Isn’t xianity lovely. Not.

    Members of the cult of zombie Jesus have just shown that they are intolerant thugs.

  • Hussein Al-hout

    In reply to VoxMagi

    We know of nothing in our universe which posses the intellectual ability such as ourselves…If there is no God, then what is greater than a human?

    The belief in God is a belief that there is something greater out there. If the great men throughout time never believed in something beyond which was already known, as a fact and bluntly presented to them, then we would be much less informed then we are today.

    As far as religion promising eternity ( 8 ) of bliss…is it really impossible? Maybe to our limited comprehension…Remember the light bulb was very recently invented in 1879.

  • peacefulone

    what the guards did was messed up, but maybe if that idiot wasnt such a douche interrupting a prayer and waited until afterwards to voice his opinion…im pretty sure if i was vegan and objected to him eating meat n interrupted his dinner he’d be pissed too, and hed prolly beat the shit outta me….theres a difference between being right about something and handling it correctly, and being right about something and rudely objecting…he didnt have to pray and if he had just sat there quietly and respectfully while the people who did pray prayed, im sure this all woulda been avoided. he couldve voiced his concern afterwards like anyone raised with fucking manners. athiest activists are some of the worst, one step up from the westboro baptist church…

  • peacefulone

    what the guards did was messed up, but maybe if that idiot wasnt such a douche interrupting a prayer and waited until afterwards to voice his opinion…im pretty sure if i was vegan and objected to him eating meat n interrupted his dinner he’d be pissed too, and hed prolly beat the shit outta me….theres a difference between being right about something and handling it correctly, and being right about something and rudely objecting…he didnt have to pray and if he had just sat there quietly and respectfully while the people who did pray prayed, im sure this all woulda been avoided. he couldve voiced his concern afterwards like anyone raised with fucking manners. athiest activists are some of the worst, one step up from the westboro baptist church…

  • Mysticatspr07

    coming from an atheist myself I truly believe that they deserve it. It’s not about what they believe in. They were being rude and yelling while someone was speaking on the stand. Standing up for what you believe in is one thing, but completely bashing someone’s beliefs while they are practicing it is another. If someone wants to pray then let them pray. just do what I do and QUIETLY not participate.

  • Mysticatspr07

    coming from an atheist myself I truly believe that they deserve it. It’s not about what they believe in. They were being rude and yelling while someone was speaking on the stand. Standing up for what you believe in is one thing, but completely bashing someone’s beliefs while they are practicing it is another. If someone wants to pray then let them pray. just do what I do and QUIETLY not participate.

  • John

    The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. Happy now?

  • Joedowhatjoewants

    It seems disinfo.com is spreading disinformation. theres no seperation of church and state in the constitution, thats disinformation, when jefferson said he felt there should be no law respecting an establishment of religion, he meant sects or denominations, like no law that particularly benefits church of england over baptists. and the same goes for the phrase ” a wall of seperation between church and state”. most importantly though, neither of those phrases are anywhere in the constitution. that being said, the guys a fucking idiot for saying “blah blah blah unconstitutional gay shit blah”
    the interruption of the prayer was straight sacrileges, and if you don’t care about sacrilege than it was a douche bag move worthy of a good slap. interrupting something that some that is held sacred by some to make a point, I think thats about as big of dick as you can get. you know its rude, make your point with words in a discussion not by taring into peoples sacred stuff. second of all, such an interruption would be considered contempt of court, maybe legislative meetings have similar rules.
    the security guards were just escorting them out because they were being disruptive, pretty standard procedure, but this hippie douche had to flail around and resist, so they restrained him.. no biggy..

    next time this douche should read the constitution instead of getting high and saying,” hey bro, uh isn’t it like unconstitutional that these people are praying in government meetings and stuff..” nope, its not unconstitutional the forefathers always intended for us to be a christian nation, one day maybe we’ll vote those ideals out, but for now, its not unconstitutional.

    P/S stop spreading disinformation, you’re supposed to be the light of truth that you know… sheds light and shit, on disinformation, and shit

  • Joedowhatjoewants

    It seems disinfo.com is spreading disinformation. theres no seperation of church and state in the constitution, thats disinformation, when jefferson said he felt there should be no law respecting an establishment of religion, he meant sects or denominations, like no law that particularly benefits church of england over baptists. and the same goes for the phrase ” a wall of seperation between church and state”. most importantly though, neither of those phrases are anywhere in the constitution. that being said, the guys a fucking idiot for saying “blah blah blah unconstitutional gay shit blah”
    the interruption of the prayer was straight sacrileges, and if you don’t care about sacrilege than it was a douche bag move worthy of a good slap. interrupting something that some that is held sacred by some to make a point, I think thats about as big of dick as you can get. you know its rude, make your point with words in a discussion not by taring into peoples sacred stuff. second of all, such an interruption would be considered contempt of court, maybe legislative meetings have similar rules.
    the security guards were just escorting them out because they were being disruptive, pretty standard procedure, but this hippie douche had to flail around and resist, so they restrained him.. no biggy..

    next time this douche should read the constitution instead of getting high and saying,” hey bro, uh isn’t it like unconstitutional that these people are praying in government meetings and stuff..” nope, its not unconstitutional the forefathers always intended for us to be a christian nation, one day maybe we’ll vote those ideals out, but for now, its not unconstitutional.

    P/S stop spreading disinformation, you’re supposed to be the light of truth that you know… sheds light and shit, on disinformation, and shit

    • Whatever41

      Obviously the issue is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” which IS in the Constitution (check the First Amendment) and you’ll note the words “sects” or “denominations” do NOT appear in the Constitution, and yours is a distinction that does NOT appear in the Constitution. The core concept here is that government shouldn’t get involved with religion. You can argue the specifics breadth or limitations of it, but the concept is clear. Personally I think that one can argue persuasively that private prayer is sacred, but there is really nothing sacred about public prayer – when you’re praying for an audience and you know that there are people in that audience that believe differently than you, really you’re just flaunting your religion – there’s not much claim to sincerity there…especially when you see how the politicians beating the religious drum to score political points – you can’t tell me that there’s ANYTHING sacred to that.

      • Joedowhatjoewants

        what do you think an “establishment of religion” is? its a denomination or sect of religion, this is in there to avoid mandatory tithes to churches, like in england theres a mandatory 10% tithe to the church of england.Tithes were given legal force by the Statute of Westminster of 1285. in ireland tithes were inforced until 1836. in germany tithes are still collected. this is in there to avoid laws like that, and other similar laws… thats a fact do some research, its not an opinion, or an interpretation. most importantly its not a misinterpretation like yours…
        and puplic prayer is no different from private prayer. if you flaunt prayer, or pray to be heard by others yeah, it takes away from the meaning of it, but its not necessarily flaunting to join in public prayer, nor is it necessarily praying for an audience to join in a group prayer. those are assumptions.

        • Raybutlers

          actually, no. It’s not a denomination or sect. It’s an establishment of religion. Words mean things.

      • Demian

        here, here!

    • Andrew

      It seems you’re the one spreading disinformation. Perhaps that’s why you accused those who are telling the truth of it.

    • Whatever41

      The Founding Fathers wanted Freedom of Religion and didn’t want the U.S. Government imposing a religion on people, or creating laws that impose religion on people. That is pretty clear. The grey are comes when you look not at laws but at practices – freedom of religion means, among other things, that government should not interfere with religious practices. But when the practioners ARE not citizens, but rather the government or its representatives (in their governing capacity), then obviously you start to into a grey area – because then they are essentially promoting one religion. I do think logic suggests that government officials should refrain from bringing prayer into governing because it (if not against the letter of the 1st amendment, is against the spirit). Of course, spontaneous, natural, sincere prayer is just what individuals do and if someone drops a “thank God” in Congress than that’s not really offensive to anyone, but if you’re organizing prayers before every meeting or requiring religious oaths for public office, then your practices are rubbing against the spirit of the 1st Amendment.

      • Joedowhatjoewants

        the only thing that would rub against the constitution, is if you were to disallow prayers or oaths in government, that would be subjugating religion, no one has to participate in prayers or oaths on the bible that don’t chose to, thats freedom of religion. but not allowing congress to open with a prayer, is the opposite of what the constitution wants, that would be disallowing religion in a public place.

    • Whatever41

      It’s also obvious that the Forefathers DIDN’T “intend for us to be a Christian nation”. There’s NOTHING about Jesus Christ or Christianity in the Constitution. Absolutely NOTHING. What the Forefathers were making was a country that would be religiously tolerant and not play favorites with religions. Many of them were Christians, but they were making a progressive religion-neutral government, not a Christian government. Organized prayer in Congress and Pledges of Allegiance, those things weren’t around when our Forefathers were around, so it’s hard to make the argument that they “wanted” those things – it’s more likely that they many of them would have found those things distasteful. Maybe some of them would have liked them. It’s hard to say – but it definitely seems like religion wasn’t used politically back then the way it is today – to score points by making yourself and your side look more “moral” than the other with public prayers and fighting over how much religion should be in the public sphere. Is it an assault to the 1st Amendment for Hawaii governors to launch into Christian prayer? That’s up to a court to decide. Is it against the spirit of the 1st Amendment – yeah – why? Because they’re the government, acting in their capacity as the government. You want to pray on your own time, fine – but when you’re on the job – you’re represent everyone. Just like judges should recuse themselves from cases where they have an interest, governors should show a little restraint and refrain from promoting their religion when they’re on the job.

      • Joedowhatjoewants

        the founding fathers didn’t want to play favorites with different sects or denominations, but they always intended for us to be a christian nation.. theres probably a million citations of that in and out of governmental documents, I’ll cite a few.

        Thomas Jefferson the principle author of the constitution, claimed that the bible was “the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man.” he also felt that it should be a text book used in schools. “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” –October 11, 1798

        John Adams:
        “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
        • “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
        “Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.”

        in Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”

        I can go on and on, oh another thing, it says “we believe all men to be “created” equal”.. so they were creationist.. furthermore thats a plagerism of the bible(which there are a lot of in the constitution.
        the most important thing is that the CONSTITUTION NEVER CONTENDS THAT CHRISTIANITY SHOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM OUR GOVERNMENT, it just says that religious establishments be shouldn’t be favored, such as different churches.

        in conclusion, if atheist or muslims or anyone else, wants christianity excluded from out government, create a bill, get it passed, we live in a democracy, I’m not opposed to that. but as for now, stop trying to find it in the constitution, because the simple fact is; it’s not there. you’re just misquoting and misinterpreting one small sentence, and using it to spread misinformation. sure, you don’t like christianity being favored by our government, but theres nothing in the constitution that says it’s unconstitutional.

        • http://snoopyh42.livejournal.com/ Adam Hansen

          I would note, that those documents by Jefferson, Adams and Franklin are personal statements, not judgments or laws or any sort of basis used for the founding of the United States. The founding fathers had the wisdom to keep their personal belief systems out of the Constitution.

        • Raybutlers

          The constitution is crystal clear. Only mendacious Christians deny that fact. Shame on you.

    • crystal

      read the constitution

  • Whatever41

    Obviously the issue is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” which IS in the Constitution (check the First Amendment) and you’ll note the words “sects” or “denominations” do NOT appear in the Constitution, and yours is a distinction that does NOT appear in the Constitution. The core concept here is that government shouldn’t get involved with religion. You can argue the specifics breadth or limitations of it, but the concept is clear. Personally I think that one can argue persuasively that private prayer is sacred, but there is really nothing sacred about public prayer – when you’re praying for an audience and you know that there are people in that audience that believe differently than you, really you’re just flaunting your religion – there’s not much claim to sincerity there…especially when you see how the politicians beating the religious drum to score political points – you can’t tell me that there’s ANYTHING sacred to that.

  • Whatever41

    What Pascal didn’t realize was that his wager applied to EVERY religion that has either a “Hell” or a “Heaven” and pretty much all of them DO so basically it says you have to believe in every religion – the absurdity of which is clear. So Pascal’s Wager is clearly bunk.

  • Andrew

    It seems you’re the one spreading disinformation. Perhaps that’s why you accused those who are telling the truth of it.

  • Whatever41

    The Founding Fathers wanted Freedom of Religion and didn’t want the U.S. Government imposing a religion on people, or creating laws that impose religion on people. That is pretty clear. The grey are comes when you look not at laws but at practices – freedom of religion means, among other things, that government should not interfere with religious practices. But when the practioners ARE not citizens, but rather the government or its representatives (in their governing capacity), then obviously you start to into a grey area – because then they are essentially promoting one religion. I do think logic suggests that government officials should refrain from bringing prayer into governing because it (if not against the letter of the 1st amendment, is against the spirit). Of course, spontaneous, natural, sincere prayer is just what individuals do and if someone drops a “thank God” in Congress than that’s not really offensive to anyone, but if you’re organizing prayers before every meeting or requiring religious oaths for public office, then your practices are rubbing against the spirit of the 1st Amendment.

  • Whatever41

    It’s also obvious that the Forefathers DIDN’T “intend for us to be a Christian nation”. There’s NOTHING about Jesus Christ or Christianity in the Constitution. Absolutely NOTHING. What the Forefathers were making was a country that would be religiously tolerant and not play favorites with religions. Many of them were Christians, but they were making a progressive religion-neutral government, not a Christian government. Organized prayer in Congress and Pledges of Allegiance, those things weren’t around when our Forefathers were around, so it’s hard to make the argument that they “wanted” those things – it’s more likely that they many of them would have found those things distasteful. Maybe some of them would have liked them. It’s hard to say – but it definitely seems like religion wasn’t used politically back then the way it is today – to score points by making yourself and your side look more “moral” than the other with public prayers and fighting over how much religion should be in the public sphere. Is it an assault to the 1st Amendment for Hawaii governors to launch into Christian prayer? That’s up to a court to decide. Is it against the spirit of the 1st Amendment – yeah – why? Because they’re the government, acting in their capacity as the government. You want to pray on your own time, fine – but when you’re on the job – you’re represent everyone. Just like judges should recuse themselves from cases where they have an interest, governors should show a little restraint and refrain from promoting their religion when they’re on the job.

  • Whatever41

    Personally, I think arguing Science vs. Religion completely misses the point (and Science is far from perfect – many “truths” found with the Scientific Method end up getting rejected, frankly Scientists have been struggling a lot recently realizing that a lot of their scientific “beliefs” are being contradicted). But really, acknowledging the problems that Science isn’t meant to discredit Science and make Religion look better by comparison, it’s instead to acknowledge the fact that Truth is really hard to get at, and that you really just have to be constantly reexamining your beliefs and not allow yourself to fall prey to hubris. From what I can see, you can’t remove “faith” entirely from the equation – Science relies on faith too, but a different kind of faith than religion. Religion proceeds on blind faith – and the more “blindly” you believe, the greater the perceived “moral” victory (supposedly) – for many religious people they believe that they earn merit for believing unbelievable things. So that too, is a kind of hubris. Science really can’t “prove” most facts, but it can try to keep an open mind, and that’s what the scientific method tries to do – the kind of faith that science uses is this – believe what appears to be true only as long as it still appears to be true. So science is really faith too – but faith with skepticism.

  • Joedowhatjoewants

    what do you think an “establishment of religion” is? its a denomination or sect of religion, this is in there to avoid mandatory tithes to churches, like in england theres a mandatory 10% tithe to the church of england.Tithes were given legal force by the Statute of Westminster of 1285. in ireland tithes were inforced until 1836. in germany tithes are still collected. this is in there to avoid laws like that, and other similar laws… thats a fact do some research, its not an opinion, or an interpretation. most importantly its not a misinterpretation like yours…
    and puplic prayer is no different from private prayer. if you flaunt prayer, or pray to be heard by others yeah, it takes away from the meaning of it, but its not necessarily flaunting to join in public prayer, nor is it necessarily praying for an audience to join in a group prayer. those are assumptions.

  • Joedowhatjoewants

    the founding fathers didn’t want to play favorites with different sects or denominations, but they always intended for us to be a christian nation.. theres probably a million citations of that in and out of governmental documents, I’ll cite a few.

    Thomas Jefferson the principle author of the constitution, claimed that the bible was “the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man.” he also felt that it should be a text book used in schools. “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” –October 11, 1798

    John Adams:
    “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
    • “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
    “Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.”

    in Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”

    I can go on and on, oh another thing, it says “we believe all men to be “created” equal”.. so they were creationist.. furthermore thats a plagerism of the bible(which there are a lot of in the constitution.
    the most important thing is that the CONSTITUTION NEVER CONTENDS THAT CHRISTIANITY SHOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM OUR GOVERNMENT, it just says that religious establishments be shouldn’t be favored, such as different churches.

    in conclusion, if atheist or muslims or anyone else, wants christianity excluded from out government, create a bill, get it passed, we live in a democracy, I’m not opposed to that. but as for now, stop trying to find it in the constitution, because the simple fact is; it’s not there. you’re just misquoting and misinterpreting one small sentence, and using it to spread misinformation. sure, you don’t like christianity being favored by our government, but theres nothing in the constitution that says it’s unconstitutional.

  • Joedowhatjoewants

    the only thing that would rub against the constitution, is if you were to disallow prayers or oaths in government, that would be subjugating religion, no one has to participate in prayers or oaths on the bible that don’t chose to, thats freedom of religion. but not allowing congress to open with a prayer, is the opposite of what the constitution wants, that would be disallowing religion in a public place.

  • Trident_t150

    It seems the judge in this case is just as informed as the protestor. There is nothing in either the constitution or Bill of Rights that says “separation of church and state.”

  • Trident_t150

    It seems the judge in this case is just as informed as the protestor. There is nothing in either the constitution or Bill of Rights that says “separation of church and state.”

  • crystal

    read the constitution

  • Tre

    Seriously? Ignorance is limited to religious people I see. Read John 8:1-30.

  • Reason101

    Ok, first of all, I think the people “protesting” are just a couple of attention seeking douches who have nothing better to do then protesting a speech given to a higher power imploring him to give them wisdom and safety. Wow, SO harmful. I’m amazed anyone got out of there alive. Go rid the world of AIDS or hunger. Or, read up on Ghandi, Plato, and MLK Jr. and learn how to protest civilly. Wait… their belief in a god may offend the protester’s delicate sensibilities, haha.

    Secondly, although you cannot say that “Jesus” is God or whatever, anyone who does not believe in a creator are more ignorant than some religious people can be. Take a statistics class or two, delve into the philosophy of science, and quit waving evolution around like it is “proof” that there is no god.

    Thirdly, before you bash Christianity, realize this. The second largest relief organization in the world is Christian. Wow, that *really* harms society. Bringing hope and relief to Hati was such a bigoted and ignorant thing to do. So totally proves the point that Christians want everyone who doesn’t believe like them to live a horrible life, burn in hell, and deserve whatever happens to them.

    And, it was actually Baptist’s that pushed for “separation of Church and state” the letter was written to them, assuring them that the state wouldn’t interfere with them dunking people in swimming pools and eating casseroles or whatever. Or make them go to church, pay tithe, ect. The point was to make sure the state didn’t do harm by protecting or prohibiting religious practices. Seriously, if you are harmed by someone asking Jesus, Allah, Thor, or any other god to “bless us” you are seriously messed up in the head. What did it cost you? Five minutes of sitting there bored? How rude.

    The more I interact with people, the more I realize that those who scream that you are being closed minded are usually the most ignorant, close minded people themselves.

  • Reason101

    Ok, first of all, I think the people “protesting” are just a couple of attention seeking douches who have nothing better to do then protesting a speech given to a higher power imploring him to give them wisdom and safety. Wow, SO harmful. I’m amazed anyone got out of there alive. Go rid the world of AIDS or hunger. Or, read up on Ghandi, Plato, and MLK Jr. and learn how to protest civilly. Wait… their belief in a god may offend the protester’s delicate sensibilities, haha.

    Secondly, although you cannot say that “Jesus” is God or whatever, anyone who does not believe in a creator are more ignorant than some religious people can be. Take a statistics class or two, delve into the philosophy of science, and quit waving evolution around like it is “proof” that there is no god.

    Thirdly, before you bash Christianity, realize this. The second largest relief organization in the world is Christian. Wow, that *really* harms society. Bringing hope and relief to Hati was such a bigoted and ignorant thing to do. So totally proves the point that Christians want everyone who doesn’t believe like them to live a horrible life, burn in hell, and deserve whatever happens to them.

    And, it was actually Baptist’s that pushed for “separation of Church and state” the letter was written to them, assuring them that the state wouldn’t interfere with them dunking people in swimming pools and eating casseroles or whatever. Or make them go to church, pay tithe, ect. The point was to make sure the state didn’t do harm by protecting or prohibiting religious practices. Seriously, if you are harmed by someone asking Jesus, Allah, Thor, or any other god to “bless us” you are seriously messed up in the head. What did it cost you? Five minutes of sitting there bored? How rude.

    The more I interact with people, the more I realize that those who scream that you are being closed minded are usually the most ignorant, close minded people themselves.

  • http://twitter.com/Th2shay Therese

    They call themselves Christians. They pray before beating people up and say they act in God’s name.

  • http://twitter.com/Th2shay Therese

    They call themselves Christians. They pray before beating people up and say they act in God’s name.

  • http://snoopyh42.livejournal.com/ Adam Hansen

    I would note, that those documents by Jefferson, Adams and Franklin are personal statements, not judgments or laws or any sort of basis used for the founding of the United States. The founding fathers had the wisdom to keep their personal belief systems out of the Constitution.

  • Demian

    here, here!

  • Raybutlers

    actually, no. It’s not a denomination or sect. It’s an establishment of religion. Words mean things.

  • Raybutlers

    The constitution is crystal clear. Only mendacious Christians deny that fact. Shame on you.

  • Raybutlers

    the first amendment

  • Raybutlers

    “one Nation Under God” was never added to anything

  • Raybutlers

    slippery slope. This is the God Conspiracy trying to force religion on the rest of us. Successfully it seems.

  • Peebuddy

    Fawcking religitards. If one of them prayed to Mohamed how would the other Christards have felt? This is how rational, non delusional people feel about your love of Christ and your book of hate. Let’s stop this silly belief in ancient impossible stories and get on with a civilized civilization without this superstitious hate.

  • Peebuddy

    Fawcking religitards. If one of them prayed to Mohamed how would the other Christards have felt? This is how rational, non delusional people feel about your love of Christ and your book of hate. Let’s stop this silly belief in ancient impossible stories and get on with a civilized civilization without this superstitious hate.

    • Reason101

      Rational people realize that being disruptive is not how to solve an issue. The guards didn’t give a rats ass about what they were “protesting” they were worried that the people being disruptive and aggressive and would start hurting people, and it was their job to insure the safety of the other people there. It was the STATE legislator for heavens sake. What if it has escalated and the disruptive behavior became violent? It would have been negligence on the part of the security to *not* stop them, no matter the issue. RATIONAL people choose other methods to get their message across. And as a Christian, I honestly wouldn’t care if they prayed to Mohamed every once in a while if the Muslim population was such that it garnered such prayer to be representative of the population.
      P.S. Rational people also know the other side of the argument as well they know their own, so read the Bible before calling it a book full of hate.

      • linbegone

        Guess when Moses was told by god to commit genocide on a people who didnt believe in him was just a fuzzy way of inviting them over for a buffet.

  • 1baldguy

    One, such as me, might ask if this is the whole of the issue. Is this the first time this issue was addressed in the assembly? Is the method of address in line with dictates of etiquette or is it considered contemptible? Were the individuals under previous warning?

  • 1baldguy

    One, such as me, might ask if this is the whole of the issue. Is this the first time this issue was addressed in the assembly? Is the method of address in line with dictates of etiquette or is it considered contemptible? Were the individuals under previous warning?

  • Reason101

    Rational people realize that being disruptive is not how to solve an issue. The guards didn’t give a rats ass about what they were “protesting” they were worried that the people being disruptive and aggressive and would start hurting people, and it was their job to insure the safety of the other people there. It was the STATE legislator for heavens sake. What if it has escalated and the disruptive behavior became violent? It would have been negligence on the part of the security to *not* stop them, no matter the issue. RATIONAL people choose other methods to get their message across. And as a Christian, I honestly wouldn’t care if they prayed to Mohamed every once in a while if the Muslim population was such that it garnered such prayer to be representative of the population.
    P.S. Rational people also know the other side of the argument as well they know their own, so read the Bible before calling it a book full of hate.

  • Anonymous

    Priceless

  • Anonymous

    Praying to a delusional skyguy in a government building is not only childish, it’s borderline retarded. Religious people should be looked upon the same at the same level of people who believe in leprechauns, gremlins and the existence of honest bankers.

  • Anonymous

    From the invisible sky guy, where else.

  • Anonymous

    Very xtian like of you. I wish you a long and happy life, but keep your silly superstitions to yourself.

  • Anonymous

    That word respect should also be used by xtians towards non-believers.

    If you wish me to respect any religion it would first have to show itself worthy of respect. If believers wish respect from me then stop shoving your god into my life and forcing your moralities on everyone.

    And seriously, I can’t respect people that actually believe in magic, genocide and oppression of free thoughts.

    I find it funny that god never gave his flock the ability to laugh at themselves.

  • Anonymous

    Guess when Moses was told by god to commit genocide on a people who didnt believe in him was just a fuzzy way of inviting them over for a buffet.

  • Dleeclean

    So to click to this article there is a box on the page before along with a picture that is amazing. Anyone know anything about the picture or how to find it on the internet? Thanks.

  • Dleeclean

    So to click to this article there is a box on the page before along with a picture that is amazing. Anyone know anything about the picture or how to find it on the internet? Thanks.

  • Marelle_julien

    Really just think what you are saying , how are you going to denounce the given facts of the text who in the hell wrote it modern man , how could it not be authenthic if i spelled that right.

  • Marelle_julien

    the truth is out there you just don’t wanna believe it so go about your rebelling ways if that makes you far better
    .

  • Marelle_julien

    you just don’t have the right sources!!!!! so looked harder then you will find what you are looking for

  • Bnova

    Fact check…he wasn’t forced to pray he could have left the assembly at any time he wished how however he did choose to be disruptive and for that he got his ass kicked, way to stick it to the Christian majority. :)

  • Anonymous

    damn double post

  • Anonymous

    Because a group of Catholics (I think) campaigned to get it on our money, in the 1860s

  • Secular Humanist

    As a Conservative Atheist (I feel the lone person in this category), I must insist that this blatant violation of our Constitution’s first amendment will not go unnoticed. Now is the time to expose as many incidents such as this and fight back against those who think an imaginary sky fairy governs this country.

  • Secular Humanist

    As a Conservative Atheist (I feel the lone person in this category), I must insist that this blatant violation of our Constitution’s first amendment will not go unnoticed. Now is the time to expose as many incidents such as this and fight back against those who think an imaginary sky fairy governs this country.

  • Patssox1002

    Uh oh…looks like it was added in 1954 to the Pledge of Allegiance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_the_words_.22under_God.22

  • Kyle

    He’s got a point. It was an ineffectual and meaningless gesture. If you want to stop shit like this from happening, if you want to change christian-conservatism in our country, yelling and screaming during their prayers doesn’t help. It makes them feel justified in their beliefs by giving them a tangible evil, present in their lives.

  • Shanabell69

    yeah god is pretty stupid

  • Bree

    He’s right to an extent. Yelling and screaming does make them seem childish, but he’s retarded because he’s not looking at the bigger picture.

  • Jet

    how can they feel justified they are breaking the law…There is a seperation of church and state.. the law needs to be followed by christians too..you are stupid and ignorant too…

  • Jbooks

    oh is that so, kyle? you judge us by your own petty mind

  • Andy

    Do I understand correctly that after being shouted at to stop by the cameraman, the RELIGIOUS people who were praying went off and assaulted him? If yelling and screaming is the only way to be heard, or to be taken seriously, I say take some singing lessons so you can yell that much louder. Good for the Cameraman for doing the right thing.

  • Zengardener

    yelling during prayer would seem more childish if they weren’t assaulted for doing so.

  • that1guy

    Dude. You are up your own ass. “indeed” “your own petty mind” you take shits like the rest of us buddy. Get off your high horse.

  • Andrew
  • justagirl

    of course, you are referring to the “comment” section of that article (?)

  • Andrew

    No, I’m referring to the human body.

  • justagirl

    frightfully amazing isn’t it (?)

  • Andrew

    Nope. It’s rather pathetic, actually.

  • justagirl

    interesting. were you swayed by the article?

  • Andrew

    No.

  • justagirl

    me neither.
    are you an atheist who thinks that god is stupid?

  • Andrew

    If I had to place myself, it would be somewhere between dystheism and ignosticism.

  • linbegone

    Praying to a delusional skyguy in a government building is not only childish, it’s borderline retarded. Religious people should be looked upon the same at the same level of people who believe in leprechauns, gremlins and the existence of honest bankers.