Birther Faces Court Martial For Refusing Deployment Orders

ObamaLakinIf Obama isn’t a US-born citizen is he fit to act as Commander in Cheif? That’s the question that brought Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin to trial for refusing to report for duty. Lakin, and other “birthers,” question whether President Obama is a US-born citizen or not. He pleaed guilty to one of two charges against him, stating he believed his orders for deployment were illegal because he still questions that Obama has a US birth certificate. MSNBC reports:

An Army doctor who disobeyed orders to deploy to Afghanistan because he questions President Barack Obama’s citizenship pleaded guilty Tuesday to one of two charges against him.

Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin of Greeley, Colo., pleaded guilty in a military court to a charge that included not meeting with a superior when ordered to do so and not reporting to duty at Fort Campbell.

Lakin faces up to 18 months in prison and dismissal from the Army. He pleaded not guilty to a second charge of missing a flight he was required to be on, and the court-martial proceeding continued on that count.

[Continues at MSNBC]

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  • Potter

    Dishonorably discharge them for being mentally retarded! being a “birther” is NOT a legitimate excuse to protest what you signed up to do. Just because you are stupid enough to live in a fantasy world does not give you the right to shirk from duty.

    I do support people refusing to fight on the grounds that this is an unjust war, or refusing to take unethical orders, but not because they don’t understand basic English and US law.

    • Golchab

      you could always try to change the ‘law’ that the president must have a US birth. that would solve a lot of these arguments.
      This particular fellow, being that he didn’t like obama or really is a stickler for rules, stood up for those rules.
      another slippery get away from one that’s high up, being called out by one that’s underneath. sound familiar?

      • Honu

        “you could always try to change the ‘law’ that the president must have a US birth”
        Ummm…so being born in Hawaii means you’re not born in the US?

        “another slippery get away from one that’s high up, being called out by one that’s underneath. sound familiar?”

        Are you saying that this guy is correct in refusing to obey because his belief that Obama is not a natural citizen despite the governor of Hawaii saying he was in fact born there, announcement of Obama’s birth in a Hawaii newspaper and copies of his birth record available for viewing are not enough proof?

        These birthers simply don’t like having a black man in the white house. No amount of proof will dissuade them.

        • Tuna Ghost

          Exactly. I don’t like claiming that all of Obama’s criticism’s stem from racism (I’ve got a couple crtiticisms myself so that would be kinda awkward for me), but this one is pretty transparent. He’s got dark skin, his father was an immigrant = he’s not like us.

          • Brentskinner5

            You. Are. Wrong.

          • Hadrian999

            the problem is many of the criticisms of obama are just as valid of his predecessors, but they were never made against them, it is much the argument you can make against the tea party, we have had the same conditions for decades that we do now, so why the sudden outpoor of rage? we have had runaway spending for 30 years, we have had the constitution being trampled for much longer, we have seen government subservience to bankers for ages, so why do they freak out now?

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            fear of a black penis

            it must be at least a foot longer than Bushs…because when Bush was fucking us, I didn’t hear a peep from them. The minute after Bush pulled out and Barak shoved in…the screams were heard all the way to Neptune.

          • Andrew

            Birthers simply don’t like having a black Democrat in the White House.

          • Honu

            I made a blanket statement for effect regarding race as the reason for these birther’s claims. Let’s be fair, he’s also a democrat. But I don’t think you can ignore race as an issue for Obama’s opponents. It may or may not be an overriding issue for the extremists on the right but I certainly see it as a factor. When evidence is presented refuting birther’s claims outright and still they deny the veracity, what can anyone do to persuade them that their beliefs are wrong? Same with the tea party. Taxes have demonstrably gone down under Obama yet these people think they haven’t. What can you do but shrug. Out of control spending started under Bush (yes it can be argued much further back than that) but these people weren’t crying about it during his 8 years in office so I call BS on their complaining now. Also Bush started the initial bank bailouts so even that falls on him. With every single major argument from these people, there is concrete evidence demonstrating how wrong they are so what is to be believed from all of this. If it’s not the facts, then you have to consider other issues as reasons for their extreme views.

        • Brentskinner5

          The simple, go-to conclusion for simple minds like you is to say birthers simply don’t like having a black man in the White House. PLEASE spare us your shallow sanctimony. By continually resorting to this argument, you greatly undercut your own ability to combat those with whom you disagree, and you greatly lessen the quality of political discourse.

          • Honu

            Really? Is my so called simple minded conclusion that shallow? Funny how I don’t recall these tea party birther types coming out of the woodwork on Bush when there was plenty of evidence about him going AWOL on his champagne Texas Air Natl Guard unit. Funny how I don’t recall these people clamoring about runaway spending when Bush phonied up evidence to start the Iraq war that piles up 12B/month since it’s started. And are you trying to impress me with phrases like “shallow sanctimony” because it really shows you being imbalanced….just enough intelligence to demonstrate your education but not quite enough where withall to recognize racism when it’s in your face. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and just because I call out birthers’ claims as a strawman issue for racism doesn’t mean it’s shallow, sanctimonious or lowers political discourse. I’m not a flame thrower. I simply see absolutely zero evidence for birthers’ claims. Couple birthers with the tea party, many of whom are a part of both groups, each with their philosophies and that I find both without merit or true value and I have to wonder what their motivations are. Without any real tangible evidence or rational thinking for either group, race as an underlying issue surfaces. So don’t tell me that my belief is simple minded. Maybe you ought to think a bit more pal.

          • Brentskinner5

            You’ve missed my point entirely, and it’s interesting that you denigrate my intelligence during the course of doing so. Whether or not birthers’ claims are legitimate is a discrete variable bearing no substantive, causal relationship with the notion that birthers may or may not be racists. These two things are unrelated. You, my friend, jump to many conclusions and you then project those conclusions onto those who disagree with you politically, concluding that THEY jump to conclusions. Additionally, you conclude that their conclusions are based on racism, the flimsiest of bases indeed. But really, as you attempt by conscious or unconscious corollary to insult them, you actually insult yourself. I wonder if you see that.

            A few more things pertaining to the Tea Party and, thus, your comment — but not exactly related to birthism:

            The Tea Party is a grassroots movement that began in reaction to TARP, which occurred on Bush’s watch; the MSM, however, did not widely report on the Tea Party movement until the current President had taken office. Whether or not the MSM’s being late to the party — pun intended — was in fact by design is up for debate, but clearly, that tardiness did much to help the MSM to label the Tea Party a racist organization. That was convenient.

            Billionaires will survive whether or not the United States goes bankrupt. I harbor no ill will, and neither should you. This debate at once has everything to do and nothing to do with billionaires’ taxes; it is, in fact, about so much more than billionaires’ taxes — or millionaires’ taxes, or even the taxes of those making $250,000 or more yearly (or, as Robert Reich once noted, those making more than $100,000 yearly), no matter where they live or what their realistic costs of living are.

            I would really like to read why you find no merit in arguments for lowering taxes and lowering the national deficit and debt. If we’d only be frank with ourselves regarding entitlements, one (lower taxes) does not follow the other (deficit and debt reduction), or vice versa. Earmarks and defense spending are sexy to talk about, but these two aggregate line items are dwarfed by entitlement costs, current and projected.

            And, I really wish we’d be frank about what and who create jobs that will lead our nation to solvency.

            If you don’t understand any of that — or, more likely, refuse to consider that — then it is likely that you haven’t the slightest clue (or the slightest iota of empathy or sympathy for) what the typical sole proprietor’s tax bill looks like.

            I do, and we are America, just as much as you are.

            I am not a rich man; in fact, I’m in the red, and yet, I can barely keep up with my income tax bill. Because of this, do I care whether or not the government sticks it to some wealthy or uber-wealthy guy (or to some successful corporation)? NO! I want the opposite: Wealthy people feeling confident that the United States will be a place where they’ll make a profit doing business. That means more jobs, and it means more clients for me. And, wow, it might even mean me being able to provide some of those jobs for others myself. Certainly, it’ll mean I can pay my own damn tax bill and thive simultaneously.

            Present conditions will lead this fiat economy to a screeching, crashing halt. On this, I suspect that you and I agree. But I suspect that you and I disagree vehemently on the definitions and identities of the present conditions that are actually fueling the crisis.

            Raising taxes on ANYONE right now is NOT the answer; it will make things WORSE. Do you really want things to be worse? No, you don’t, but because you view the debate irrationally, you disagree with sound tax policy and, therefore, support raising taxes — a catastrophic decision.

            This untenable increase in national debt has festered for years. Its inspiration entered the stage with FDR. Its seed was planted with the implementation of President Johnson’s Great Society. With the inauguration of the 110th Congress and the election of its titular head in 2008, we have witnessed a precipitation of our march toward national bankruptcy.

            Is it a witting or unwitting march? That’s anyone’s guess, but it’s surely a march inextricably linked to our pursuit of a fairy la-la unicorn land of unending, ever-growing sustenance provided by the state at the expense of the people who actually produce the capital to make that sustenance possible. And we wonder why the producers cry foul.

          • Honu

            “Whether or not birthers’ claims are legitimate is a discrete variable bearing no substantive, causal relationship with the notion that birthers may or may not be racists. These two things are unrelated.”

            I think you missed MY point. Perhaps you can’t make a direct correlation from tea partiers/birthers’ claims to racism but as I wrote, when facts…EVIDENCE is shown to refute these people’s claims in their entirety and still they persist with their beliefs then what reason can be given for their nonsensical ravings? Maybe it’s not possible to correlate racism directly but there is plenty of evidence of racism that is fueling some it. For example, the secret service protecting Obama has had a record number of death threats and race related hate threats against Obama than with any previous president. A day or so ago, two callers into CSPAN said they don’t want Michael Steele as RNC chairman because he’s black. To say race has no bearing on the lunatic ravings of the extreme right is disingenuous even if it’s not possible to make a direct correlation between provably false birther and tea party claims.

            “But really, as you attempt by conscious or unconscious corollary to insult them, you actually insult yourself. I wonder if you see that.” No, I don’t see it actually. I know what you mean by it but I disagree that it insults me. In this era of flame throwing both grotesque and subtle, my little perspective and approach to arguing issues is lost in the fray of voices….to the extent that my voice is heard in any way (by you I suppose).

            “I would really like to read why you find no merit in arguments for lowering taxes and lowering the national deficit and debt. If we’d only be frank with ourselves regarding entitlements, one (lower taxes) does not follow the other (deficit and debt reduction), or vice versa”

            If I follow what you wrote correctly, you’re saying we should get rid of entitlements in lieu of raising taxes. In that way the government would save more money perhaps? If that’s the case I don’t see why we can’t shore up waste with entitlements but also raise taxes when it’s necessarly. And in the current climate, the upper 1% can certainly handle a tax increase from 36% to 39%. Any banking ceo douche that walks away from their job with a 160 million dollar severance package can certainly afford a 3% tax increase (Stanley O’Neal- former CEO of Merril Lynch). I believe in the notion of a social contract. Part of that social contract is that we can take care of the most needy in our society. I’m not advocating for socialistic policies across the board but things like health care, roads, education, emergency services, military, etc need money. That’s where taxes come in. I don’t like paying taxes anymore than you do but I’m willing to so long as the money is used properly. Capitalism as it’s being done today is out of control. The trickle down economics theory is clearly a bust. Sometimes in history an unregulated marketplace and lower taxes makes sense….sometimes, as in now, it’s time to reign it in and place serious safeguards and restraints on corrupt industries like banking. And again…about taxes…Obama has LOWERED taxes on 95% of Americans. So stop already with the raising of taxes complaint.
            I’m in the red myself and I’m a sole proprietor. Income taxes are 16%. Not too awful. I can live with that. The wealthy business owners don’t care about helping America. They ship their jobs and plants overseas utilizing the cheaper resources there. So what jobs and economic growth are you referring to?

            You said the tea party is a grass roots movement. You are very wrong about that. I know it started grassroots with a student I believe from Berkeley which wasn’t getting any national attention until Dick Armey’s Freedom Works and the Koch Brothers and others flooded it with cash flow and turned it into a strawman movement for the Republican Party. It’s no grass roots movement. Look it up. It’s all astroturf.

            ” You, my friend, jump to many conclusions and you then project those conclusions onto those who disagree with you politically, concluding that THEY jump to conclusions.”

            Eh…you’re probably right but this is a blog right? It’s not the national debate club. A little license is permitted.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Whether or not birthers’ claims are legitimate is a discrete variable bearing no substantive, causal relationship with the notion that birthers may or may not be racists.

            The proof requirements have been met. Repeatedly. Why are they asking for more? Can you tell me?

          • Tuna Ghost

            Political discourse being, in your view, ignoring evidence in plain view and insisting that the the dark man with the funny name isn’t american? Guy. C’mon now.

      • the Rev.

        i suppose nobody realizes that it wouldn’t matter one iota WHERE president obama was born. his mother was a u.s. citizen. he was born of his mother. therefore he is a natural born (not adopted) u.s. citizen, and will remain one until he dies or denounces it in writing and sends that to the state dept. he could have been born on neptune, and it wouldn’t change that. move on people, there are so many other things to mindlessly bitch about.

        • 5by5

          And honestly, the only reason why this issue was even raised, was because back in 2008, his opponent, John McCain was the one who – technically speaking – was the one who wasn’t eligible to run for President. McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, one year before they changed the law to allow such individuals to be considered naturalized citizens of the United States.

          By gentleman’s agreement, everyone basically let that slide, but clearly, someone on the Republican side was worried about it. And when they know there is a deficiency of ANY kind on their side, the first tactic is to accuse the Democrats of that which they themselves are guilty of.

          Classic projection and deflection.

          So virtually at the same instant that someone mentioned McCain’s birthplace, up popped all this “Obama was born in Kenya!” nonsense. And because there’s a sucker born every minute (and because some people in this country truly WANT to regard ANY black man as not “fully” American), it has persisted.

        • http://drwho.virtadpt.net/ The Doctor

          Cue the “Obama is a genetically engineered alien replicant” conspiracy theories in five, four, three…

  • Potter

    Dishonorably discharge them for being mentally retarded! being a “birther” is NOT a legitimate excuse to protest what you signed up to do. Just because you are stupid enough to live in a fantasy world does not give you the right to shirk from duty.

    I do support people refusing to fight on the grounds that this is an unjust war, or refusing to take unethical orders, but not because they don’t understand basic English and US law.

  • Golchab

    you could always try to change the ‘law’ that the president must have a US birth. that would solve a lot of these arguments.
    This particular fellow, being that he didn’t like obama or really is a stickler for rules, stood up for those rules.
    another slippery get away from one that’s high up, being called out by one that’s underneath. sound familiar?

  • Honu

    “you could always try to change the ‘law’ that the president must have a US birth”
    Ummm…so being born in Hawaii means you’re not born in the US?

    “another slippery get away from one that’s high up, being called out by one that’s underneath. sound familiar?”

    Are you saying that this guy is correct in refusing to obey because his belief that Obama is not a natural citizen despite the governor of Hawaii saying he was in fact born there, announcement of Obama’s birth in a Hawaii newspaper and copies of his birth record available for viewing are not enough proof?

    These birthers simply don’t like having a black man in the white house. No amount of proof will dissuade them.

  • King Solomon

    I think I can work out a compromise here:

    Lakin should not report for duty–but on grounds of mental illness.

    Goddamned birthers, I wonder how many of them would publish their birth certificates online. Fcuking idiots.

  • King Solomon

    I think I can work out a compromise here:

    Lakin should not report for duty–but on grounds of mental illness.

    Goddamned birthers, I wonder how many of them would publish their birth certificates online. Fcuking idiots.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Exactly. I don’t like claiming that all of Obama’s criticism’s stem from racism (I’ve got a couple crtiticisms myself so that would be kinda awkward for me), but this one is pretty transparent. He’s got dark skin, his father was an immigrant = he’s not like us.

  • the Rev.

    i suppose nobody realizes that it wouldn’t matter one iota WHERE president obama was born. his mother was a u.s. citizen. he was born of his mother. therefore he is a natural born (not adopted) u.s. citizen, and will remain one until he dies or denounces it in writing and sends that to the state dept. he could have been born on neptune, and it wouldn’t change that. move on people, there are so many other things to mindlessly bitch about.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Medical discharge: he’s butt-f*cking crazy if A) he believes what he says or B) he thinks anyone will accept that as an excuse. In either case…it displays mental incompetence so great that he cannot be trusted with firearms or sharp objects….and I’m convinced he should be trusted with motor vehicles, children, pets or even oxygen.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Medical discharge: he’s butt-f*cking crazy if A) he believes what he says or B) he thinks anyone will accept that as an excuse. In either case…it displays mental incompetence so great that he cannot be trusted with firearms or sharp objects….and I’m not convinced he should be trusted with motor vehicles, children, pets or even oxygen.

  • Haystack

    I want to see that trial.

    “The defense presents Exhibit A–A chain E-mail forwarded to the defendant by his cousin in Tulsa.”

  • Haystack

    I want to see that trial.

    “The defense presents Exhibit A–A chain E-mail forwarded to the defendant by his cousin in Tulsa.”

  • DeepCough

    I think these birthers are neither racist nor retarded: they just suffer from “selective illiteracy,” which is to say, when they see Barack Obama’s birth certificate, they can’t seem to read that it’s from Hawaii, which, at the time of his birth was a U.S. state. (I’ll bet some of these people actually think Bush is a Texan even though he was born in CONNECTICUT.)

  • DeepCough

    I think these birthers are neither racist nor retarded: they just suffer from “selective illiteracy,” which is to say, when they see Barack Obama’s birth certificate, they can’t seem to read that it’s from Hawaii, which, at the time of his birth was a U.S. state. (I’ll bet some of these people actually think Bush is a Texan even though he was born in CONNECTICUT.)

  • 5by5

    He should be bounced for not meeting the minimum requirements for intellect. I don’t think its wise to put someone this mentally challenged onto the battlefield. Get him a cookie and a nice padded room instead.

  • 5by5

    He should be bounced for not meeting the minimum requirements for intellect. I don’t think its wise to put someone this mentally challenged onto the battlefield. Get him a cookie and a nice padded room instead.

  • 5by5

    And honestly, the only reason why this issue was even raised, was because back in 2008, his opponent, John McCain was the one who – technically speaking – was the one who wasn’t eligible to run for President. McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, one year before they changed the law to allow such individuals to be considered naturalized citizens of the United States.

    By gentleman’s agreement, everyone basically let that slide, but clearly, someone on the Republican side was worried about it. And when they know there is a deficiency of ANY kind on their side, the first tactic is to accuse the Democrats of that which they themselves are guilty of.

    Classic projection and deflection.

    So virtually at the same instant that someone mentioned McCain’s birthplace, up popped all this “Obama was born in Kenya!” nonsense. And because there’s a sucker born every minute (and because some people in this country truly WANT to regard ANY black man as not “fully” American), it has persisted.

  • Brentskinner5

    I just love all you leftists. Your reflex to any talk of “birthism” is to say, “Look at all those dumb Americans, who aren’t even smart enough to wrap their heads around the notion that just because someone’s half black and has a foreign-sounding name, he can’t possibly be a citizen.”

    If only it were that simple, you guys would be right. But you’re WRONG.

    My own father’s name is Rafael. He has a thick Spanish accent. He grew up in Colombia, S.A., and moved her in the mid-’60s for graduate school, obtaining his U.S. citizenship shortly thereafter. No, he wasn’t born here, but plenty of people with names of apparently non-European descent *were* born here, and plenty of “birthers” understand this.

    No, the question is highly technical and real in our President’s case. We really don’t have proof that he was born here. And to point that out in no way makes someone a racist. That has got to be the most intellectually shallow argument ever constructed. But really, it’s the most intellectually dishonest, because those who voice it know exactly what they’re doing.

  • Brentskinner5

    I just love all you leftists. Your reflex to any talk of “birthism” is to say, “Look at all those dumb Americans, who aren’t even smart enough to wrap their heads around the notion that just because someone’s half black and has a foreign-sounding name, he can’t possibly be a citizen.”

    If only it were that simple, you guys would be right. But you’re WRONG.

    My own father’s name is Rafael. He has a thick Spanish accent. He grew up in Colombia, S.A., and moved her in the mid-’60s for graduate school, obtaining his U.S. citizenship shortly thereafter. No, he wasn’t born here, but plenty of people with names of apparently non-European descent *were* born here, and plenty of “birthers” understand this.

    No, the question is highly technical and real in our President’s case. We really don’t have proof that he was born here. And to point that out in no way makes someone a racist. That has got to be the most intellectually shallow argument ever constructed. But really, it’s the most intellectually dishonest, because those who voice it know exactly what they’re doing.

    • Brentskinner5

      EDIT:

      …or “can’t possibly have been born here.”

    • Orbitalspryness

      yeah, and fuck those maps that show the world as round, i want proof!

      • Brentskinner5

        You do yourself a disservice by equating conservatives’ legitimate concerns with the simplemindedness chided in your post. Do you actually want to get somewhere in understanding what is going on in this country? Get off your high horse and listen.

        • Tuna Ghost

          That’s the point, buddy. The Birther’s concerns about Obama being a “natural citizen” and thus able to be president are not “legitimate”. The proof requirements have been satisfied, yet you demand more. Why? All this despite the fact, as has been mentioned earlier, that McCain is technically ineligible for presidency. Who said word one about that during the election? Do you really think anyone would have mentioned it had he been elected? Why do you demand more proof than is required by the federal government? That’s the point, guy. It is not a legitimate concern, its a mask for racism. You’re making the black guy jump through hoops that you’d never (have never) asked the white guy to do, despite there being ACTUAL proof of the white guy being technically ineligible for Presidency. This is not about bieng on a high horse, this is about not wanting to give a platform to batshit retarded ideas that have been repeatedly refuted.

    • hypnos

      What would constitute proof to you? I’ve seen the birth certificate online, and you can too. But since public records don’t constitute proof, what would? Do we actually need to invent a time machine to go back and fingerprint him the moment he comes out of his mothers vagina? Maybe a priest and a judge in the room with you, each with a video camera? Would that satisfy you?

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        It would all be set up in advance by Communist, reptilian alien socialist nazi NWO Zionist Fed banker water flouridating FEMA hippies from Satan. There’s no way you could trust your eyes…or any physical evidence. What really matters is the evidence in your soul…if you know he’s not American…then he isn’t.

    • Tuna Ghost

      a.) All the proof that is required by the Federal Government has been provided. Why you think you need further proof, or for some reason are entitled to it, is beyond me.

      b.) Ignoring evidence or demanding more than is required is quite suspicious given that Obama is black. Asking a black man to go through hoops you wouldn’t (haven’t) asked a white man to go through is, basically, racism. No asked about the location of McCain’s birth, even though it was under far more suspicious circumstances from a technical view.

  • Brentskinner5

    EDIT:

    …or “can’t possibly have been born here.”

  • Brentskinner5

    The simple, go-to conclusion for simple minds like you is to say birthers simply don’t like having a black man in the White House. PLEASE spare us your shallow sanctimony. By continually resorting to this argument, you greatly undercut your own ability to combat those with whom you disagree, and you greatly lessen the quality of political discourse.

  • Brentskinner5

    You. Are. Wrong.

  • Word Eater

    Statement from my mother regarding the president: “I can’t even stand saying his name.”

    You see, she finds his foreign sounding name Barack Hussein Obama offensive and uses it as part of her justification for not liking him.

    These people make no sense and no amount of logic or fact or proof will change their opinion of the president.

    He is the definition of “other” and will never be respected by some.

  • Word Eater

    Statement from my mother regarding the president: “I can’t even stand saying his name.”

    You see, she finds his foreign sounding name Barack Hussein Obama offensive and uses it as part of her justification for not liking him.

    These people make no sense and no amount of logic or fact or proof will change their opinion of the president.

    He is the definition of “other” and will never be respected by some.

    • Other Mr. T.

      See, respect is something a person earns. Your mama is probably polite, but isn’t politically incorrect enough. My mama refers to this creature as “Borat Ossama”. Love ya Mom!

  • Hadrian999

    he needs to be punished for this for the same reason the general that shot off his mouth to rolling stone had to be sacked, not because obama is some messiah, but because it a terrible break in discipline, without discipline in the armed forces things fall apart fast, if high ranking officers are seen to publicly get away with breaking discipline and insubordination it leads to rank and file troops thinking they can get away with it too. sometimes strict discipline is the only thing that keeps soldiers alive in the field as well as the fact that lax discipline will lead to an increase in abuses and atrocities in the field.

  • Hadrian999

    he needs to be punished for this for the same reason the general that shot off his mouth to rolling stone had to be sacked, not because obama is some messiah, but because it a terrible break in discipline, without discipline in the armed forces things fall apart fast, if high ranking officers are seen to publicly get away with breaking discipline and insubordination it leads to rank and file troops thinking they can get away with it too. sometimes strict discipline is the only thing that keeps soldiers alive in the field as well as the fact that lax discipline will lead to an increase in abuses and atrocities in the field.

    an illegal order is an order to commit a crime, not an order you think is foolish or an order that comes from someone you do not believe should have his or her position of authority.

  • Orbitalspryness

    yeah, and fuck those maps that show the world as round, i want proof!

  • Hadrian999

    the problem is many of the criticisms of obama are just as valid of his predecessors, but they were never made against them, it is much the argument you can make against the tea party, we have had the same conditions for decades that we do now, so why the sudden outpoor of rage? we have had runaway spending for 30 years, we have had the constitution being trampled for much longer, we have seen government subservience to bankers for ages, so why do they freak out now?

  • Other Mr. T.

    See, respect is something a person earns. Your mama is probably polite, but isn’t politically incorrect enough. My mama refers to this creature as “Borat Ossama”. Love ya Mom!

  • Anonymous

    Cue the “Obama is a genetically engineered alien replicant” conspiracy theories in five, four, three…

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    fear of a black penis

    it must be at least a foot longer than Bushs…because when Bush was fucking us, I didn’t hear a peep from them. The minute after Bush pulled out and Barak shoved in…the screams were heard all the way to Neptune.

  • Anonymous

    What would constitute proof to you? I’ve seen the birth certificate online, and you can too. But since public records don’t constitute proof, what would? Do we actually need to invent a time machine to go back and fingerprint him the moment he comes out of his mothers vagina? Maybe a priest and a judge in the room with you, each with a video camera? Would that satisfy you?

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    It would all be set up in advance by Communist, reptilian alien socialist nazi NWO Zionist Fed banker water flouridating FEMA hippies from Satan. There’s no way you could trust your eyes…or any physical evidence. What really matters is the evidence in your soul…if you know he’s not American…then he isn’t.

  • Andrew

    Birthers simply don’t like having a black Democrat in the White House.

  • Honu

    Really? Is my so called simple minded conclusion that shallow? Funny how I don’t recall these tea party birther types coming out of the woodwork on Bush when there was plenty of evidence about him going AWOL on his champagne Texas Air Natl Guard unit. Funny how I don’t recall these people clamoring about runaway spending when Bush phonied up evidence to start the Iraq war that piles up 12B/month since it’s started. And are you trying to impress me with phrases like “shallow sanctimony” because it really shows you being imbalanced….just enough intelligence to demonstrate your education but not quite enough where withall to recognize racism when it’s in your face. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and just because I call out birthers’ claims as a strawman issue for racism doesn’t mean it’s shallow, sanctimonious or lowers political discourse. I’m not a flame thrower. I simply see absolutely zero evidence for birthers’ claims. Couple birthers with the tea party, many of whom are a part of both groups, each with their philosophies and that I find both without merit or true value and I have to wonder what their motivations are. Without any real tangible evidence or rational thinking for either group, race as an underlying issue surfaces. So don’t tell me that my belief is simple minded. Maybe you ought to think a bit more pal.

  • Honu

    I made a blanket statement for effect regarding race as the reason for these birther’s claims. Let’s be fair, he’s also a democrat. But I don’t think you can ignore race as an issue for Obama’s opponents. It may or may not be an overriding issue for the extremists on the right but I certainly see it as a factor. When evidence is presented refuting birther’s claims outright and still they deny the veracity, what can anyone do to persuade them that their beliefs are wrong? Same with the tea party. Taxes have demonstrably gone down under Obama yet these people think they haven’t. What can you do but shrug. Out of control spending started under Bush (yes it can be argued much further back than that) but these people weren’t crying about it during his 8 years in office so I call BS on their complaining now. Also Bush started the initial bank bailouts so even that falls on him. With every single major argument from these people, there is concrete evidence demonstrating how wrong they are so what is to be believed from all of this. If it’s not the facts, then you have to consider other issues as reasons for their extreme views.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Political discourse being, in your view, ignoring evidence in plain view and insisting that the the dark man with the funny name isn’t american? Guy. C’mon now.

  • Tuna Ghost

    a.) All the proof that is required by the Federal Government has been provided. Why you think you need further proof, or for some reason are entitled to it, is beyond me.

    b.) Ignoring evidence or demanding more than is required is quite suspicious given that Obama is black. Asking a black man to go through hoops you wouldn’t (haven’t) asked a white man to go through is, basically, racism. No asked about the location of McCain’s birth, even though it was under far more suspicious circumstances from a technical view.

  • Brentskinner5

    You’ve missed my point entirely, and it’s interesting that you denigrate my intelligence during the course of doing so. Whether or not birthers’ claims are legitimate is a discrete variable bearing no substantive, causal relationship with the notion that birthers may or may not be racists. These two things are unrelated. You, my friend, jump to many conclusions and you then project those conclusions onto those who disagree with you politically, concluding that THEY jump to conclusions. Additionally, you conclude that their conclusions are based on racism, the flimsiest of bases indeed. But really, as you attempt by conscious or unconscious corollary to insult them, you actually insult yourself. I wonder if you see that.

    A few more things pertaining to the Tea Party and, thus, your comment — but not exactly related to birthism:

    The Tea Party is a grassroots movement that began in reaction to TARP, which occurred on Bush’s watch; the MSM, however, did not widely report on the Tea Party movement until the current President had taken office. Whether or not the MSM’s being late to the party — pun intended — was in fact by design is up for debate, but clearly, that tardiness did much to help the MSM to label the Tea Party a racist organization. That was convenient.

    Billionaires will survive whether or not the United States goes bankrupt. I harbor no ill will, and neither should you. This debate at once has everything to do and nothing to do with billionaires’ taxes; it is, in fact, about so much more than billionaires’ taxes — or millionaires’ taxes, or even the taxes of those making $250,000 or more yearly (or, as Robert Reich once noted, those making more than $100,000 yearly), no matter where they live or what their realistic costs of living are.

    I would really like to read why you find no merit in arguments for lowering taxes and lowering the national deficit and debt. If we’d only be frank with ourselves regarding entitlements, one (lower taxes) does not follow the other (deficit and debt reduction), or vice versa. Earmarks and defense spending are sexy to talk about, but these two aggregate line items are dwarfed by entitlement costs, current and projected.

    And, I really wish we’d be frank about what and who create jobs that will lead our nation to solvency.

    If you don’t understand any of that — or, more likely, refuse to consider that — then it is likely that you haven’t the slightest clue (or the slightest iota of empathy or sympathy for) what the typical sole proprietor’s tax bill looks like.

    I do, and we are America, just as much as you are.

    I am not a rich man; in fact, I’m in the red, and yet, I can barely keep up with my income tax bill. Because of this, do I care whether or not the government sticks it to some wealthy or uber-wealthy guy (or to some successful corporation)? NO! I want the opposite: Wealthy people feeling confident that the United States will be a place where they’ll make a profit doing business. That means more jobs, and it means more clients for me. And, wow, it might even mean me being able to provide some of those jobs for others myself. Certainly, it’ll mean I can pay my own damn tax bill and thive simultaneously.

    Present conditions will lead this fiat economy to a screeching, crashing halt. On this, I suspect that you and I agree. But I suspect that you and I disagree vehemently on the definitions and identities of the present conditions that are actually fueling the crisis.

    Raising taxes on ANYONE right now is NOT the answer; it will make things WORSE. Do you really want things to be worse? No, you don’t, but because you view the debate irrationally, you disagree with sound tax policy and, therefore, support raising taxes — a catastrophic decision.

    This untenable increase in national debt has festered for years. Its inspiration entered the stage with FDR. Its seed was planted with the implementation of President Johnson’s Great Society. With the inauguration of the 110th Congress and the election of its titular head in 2008, we have witnessed a precipitation of our march toward national bankruptcy.

    Is it a witting or unwitting march? That’s anyone’s guess, but it’s surely a march inextricably linked to our pursuit of a fairy la-la unicorn land of unending, ever-growing sustenance provided by the state at the expense of the people who actually produce the capital to make that sustenance possible. And we wonder why the producers cry foul.

  • Anonymous

    the birther argument is ridiculous; but, if he’s brave enough to refuse deployment, then he ought to be brave enough to face the consequences.

  • samthor

    the birther argument is ridiculous; but, if he’s brave enough to refuse deployment, then he ought to be brave enough to face the consequences.

  • Brentskinner5

    You do yourself a disservice by equating conservatives’ legitimate concerns with the simplemindedness chided in your post. Do you actually want to get somewhere in understanding what is going on in this country? Get off your high horse and listen.

  • Honu

    “Whether or not birthers’ claims are legitimate is a discrete variable bearing no substantive, causal relationship with the notion that birthers may or may not be racists. These two things are unrelated.”

    I think you missed MY point. Perhaps you can’t make a direct correlation from tea partiers/birthers’ claims to racism but as I wrote, when facts…EVIDENCE is shown to refute these people’s claims in their entirety and still they persist with their beliefs then what reason can be given for their nonsensical ravings? Maybe it’s not possible to correlate racism directly but there is plenty of evidence of racism that is fueling some it. For example, the secret service protecting Obama has had a record number of death threats and race related hate threats against Obama than with any previous president. A day or so ago, two callers into CSPAN said they don’t want Michael Steele as RNC chairman because he’s black. To say race has no bearing on the lunatic ravings of the extreme right is disingenuous even if it’s not possible to make a direct correlation between provably false birther and tea party claims.

    “But really, as you attempt by conscious or unconscious corollary to insult them, you actually insult yourself. I wonder if you see that.” No, I don’t see it actually. I know what you mean by it but I disagree that it insults me. In this era of flame throwing both grotesque and subtle, my little perspective and approach to arguing issues is lost in the fray of voices….to the extent that my voice is heard in any way (by you I suppose).

    “I would really like to read why you find no merit in arguments for lowering taxes and lowering the national deficit and debt. If we’d only be frank with ourselves regarding entitlements, one (lower taxes) does not follow the other (deficit and debt reduction), or vice versa”

    If I follow what you wrote correctly, you’re saying we should get rid of entitlements in lieu of raising taxes. In that way the government would save more money perhaps? If that’s the case I don’t see why we can’t shore up waste with entitlements but also raise taxes when it’s necessarly. And in the current climate, the upper 1% can certainly handle a tax increase from 36% to 39%. Any banking ceo douche that walks away from their job with a 160 million dollar severance package can certainly afford a 3% tax increase (Stanley O’Neal- former CEO of Merril Lynch). I believe in the notion of a social contract. Part of that social contract is that we can take care of the most needy in our society. I’m not advocating for socialistic policies across the board but things like health care, roads, education, emergency services, military, etc need money. That’s where taxes come in. I don’t like paying taxes anymore than you do but I’m willing to so long as the money is used properly. Capitalism as it’s being done today is out of control. The trickle down economics theory is clearly a bust. Sometimes in history an unregulated marketplace and lower taxes makes sense….sometimes, as in now, it’s time to reign it in and place serious safeguards and restraints on corrupt industries like banking. And again…about taxes…Obama has LOWERED taxes on 95% of Americans. So stop already with the raising of taxes complaint.
    I’m in the red myself and I’m a sole proprietor. Income taxes are 16%. Not too awful. I can live with that. The wealthy business owners don’t care about helping America. They ship their jobs and plants overseas utilizing the cheaper resources there. So what jobs and economic growth are you referring to?

    You said the tea party is a grass roots movement. You are very wrong about that. I know it started grassroots with a student I believe from Berkeley which wasn’t getting any national attention until Dick Armey’s Freedom Works and the Koch Brothers and others flooded it with cash flow and turned it into a strawman movement for the Republican Party. It’s no grass roots movement. Look it up. It’s all astroturf.

    ” You, my friend, jump to many conclusions and you then project those conclusions onto those who disagree with you politically, concluding that THEY jump to conclusions.”

    Eh…you’re probably right but this is a blog right? It’s not the national debate club. A little license is permitted.

  • Tuna Ghost

    That’s the point, buddy. The Birther’s concerns about Obama being a “natural citizen” and thus able to be president are not “legitimate”. The proof requirements have been satisfied, yet you demand more. Why? All this despite the fact, as has been mentioned earlier, that McCain is technically ineligible for presidency. Who said word one about that during the election? Do you really think anyone would have mentioned it had he been elected? Why do you demand more proof than is required by the federal government? That’s the point, guy. It is not a legitimate concern, its a mask for racism. You’re making the black guy jump through hoops that you’d never (have never) asked the white guy to do, despite there being ACTUAL proof of the white guy being technically ineligible for Presidency. This is not about bieng on a high horse, this is about not wanting to give a platform to batshit retarded ideas that have been repeatedly refuted.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Whether or not birthers’ claims are legitimate is a discrete variable bearing no substantive, causal relationship with the notion that birthers may or may not be racists.

    The proof requirements have been met. Repeatedly. Why are they asking for more? Can you tell me?

  • WinterBV

    There’s this.

    John McCain wasn’t born in America. He was born in – I think – Panama because his father was in the military. He should have mentioned that during the campaign.

    Then there’s this. President Obama’s mother was an American citizen. Therefore, had she been living in Istanbul at the time of his birth, he would be a citizen by his relationship to her, period, end of paragraph.

  • WinterBV

    There’s this.

    John McCain wasn’t born in America. He was born in – I think – Panama because his father was in the military. He should have mentioned that during the campaign.

    Then there’s this. President Obama’s mother was an American citizen. Therefore, had she been living in Istanbul at the time of his birth, he would be a citizen by his relationship to her, period, end of paragraph.

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