Agents Provocateurs in London and Pittsburgh

Spy Vs SpyFrom so_very_doomed (LiveJournal):

Note: The truth is the last thing anyone wants to hear. I’m expecting to get abuse for this, if certain people end up reading it.

The march 26th demonstration was … interesting: Very dull, very boring but very neccesary. There was a desperate, depressed atmosphere in the crowd. They were led along, often corralling themselves behind arbitrary barriers in the road. Several times I went into the unoccupied side of the road as it was becoming dangerously overcrowded in the main march. They were just so depressing.

Then there were the anarchists. At first I liked the cut of their jib as they had a bit more life to them; while the criminal damage seemed fairly minor and tokenistic, but then after I got home I saw the footage. I noticed, not for the first time, the way the so-called Black Bloc were always surrounded by camera crews and strangely inactive police officers, and I thought: SET-UP.

Why do smart people do stupid things? Usually it betrays deep-seated emotional problems. My guess is that their leaders are almost certainly secret policemen — like Mark Kennedy — and they are generally a bunch of cops and messed up kids with Daddy issues, total patsies. So why didn’t the ordinary demonstrators eject them or restrain them or anything? See above — we were all so cowed that we barely scraped it together to turn up. Violence from our own ranks would simply make us more apathetic. I include myself in this — I like to think I would have got angry, but what would I say? There was no sense of unity like there usually is on demos; we were all just alone in a crowd.

For comparison, this is how to deal with provocateurs:

So you’ve got the crazy rioters led by the secret police, and then you’ve got the great mass of depressed and repressed ordinary people. This isn’t going to change a thing.

Conclusion: Politics is entering its final phase of degeneration. The fact that such obvious police provocateurs as the Black Bloc can infiltrate peaceful demonstrations at will and then set the entire media tone for a march of 500,000 people, shows just how cowed and apathetic most ordinary people are, even those who demonstrate.

Prediction: Very soon, new police powers will manage to completely stifle all dissent, except the pumped-up pseudo-dissent of the fake anarchists / secret police. The State needs something to put people off demonstrating and a sponge for popular rage, and these people are both. They are so contemptible as to defy description.

Read more here.

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  • Anonymous

    Danke sehr, Sir. I have been thinking the same thing. I respectfully submit that masking one’s face is the 180-degree opposite of civil disobedience. Moreover, I submit with equal respect that the masking of one’s face is equal although opposite to the removal by police of their numbered badges or the covering of their badge numbers.

    A civil disobedient breaks the law, taking full personal responsibility for his or her act, in order to bring that law which he or she broke, under judgment. A provocateur breaks the law under covert license to do so, in order to entrap others by his example but wiyjout his covert license; in other words, a judas-goat instead of a bellwether.

  • robertpinkerton

    Danke sehr, Sir. I have been thinking the same thing. I respectfully submit that masking one’s face is the 180-degree opposite of civil disobedience. Moreover, I submit with equal respect that the masking of one’s face is equal although opposite to the removal by police of their numbered badges or the covering of their badge numbers.

    A civil disobedient breaks the law, taking full personal responsibility for his or her act, in order to bring that law which he or she broke, under judgment. A provocateur breaks the law under covert license to do so, in order to entrap others by his example but wiyjout his covert license; in other words, a judas-goat instead of a bellwether.

    • JoiquimCouteau

      That’s all very nice, but I imagine those arbitrary distinctions you just made will be of little consolation when you are in prison.

  • Rrauben

    Sorry to hear this about London and Pittsburgh.

    In the Madison, WI protests there has been a pronounced wariness of these sorts of provocateurs. We were fully expecting them. They never really materialized tho. They could have tho. But we were very very conscious of this as a tactic used by (yes, let us tell it like it is) fascists; and how it had disassembled other potent protests in recent years.

    Our instinctive response was to very very carefully treat the police and other folks with utmost courtesy (way way more than usual)… not as some sort of lock-step respect for authority, but rather to seed the spirit of a civility that ultimately must transcend mere rules and regulations in order to moderate tragedy, and deny such provocateurs their sort of currency.

    Madison cops have always been a fairly decent lot… high percentage of women and minorities (coming from a person who is VERY anti-authoritarian– “anarchistic” in the best and deeper sense of that word– bottom-up style governance, I mean; an absolute refusal to buy into the “necessity” of a top-heavy, over-fed heirarchy).

    And yea, some of us did wear masks. But the masks of sacred clowns. Sacred… loving… concerned… clowns.

    sacredclown.org

  • Rrauben

    Sorry to hear this about London and Pittsburgh.

    In the Madison, WI protests there has been a pronounced wariness of these sorts of provocateurs. We were fully expecting them. They never really materialized tho. They could have tho. But we were very very conscious of this as a tactic used by (yes, let us tell it like it is) fascists; and how it had disassembled other potent protests in recent years.

    Our instinctive response was to very very carefully treat the police and other folks with utmost courtesy (way way more than usual)… not as some sort of lock-step respect for authority, but rather to seed the spirit of a civility that ultimately must transcend mere rules and regulations in order to moderate tragedy, and deny such provocateurs their sort of currency.

    Madison cops have always been a fairly decent lot… high percentage of women and minorities (coming from a person who is VERY anti-authoritarian– “anarchistic” in the best and deeper sense of that word– bottom-up style governance, I mean; an absolute refusal to buy into the “necessity” of a top-heavy, over-fed heirarchy).

    And yea, some of us did wear masks. But the masks of sacred clowns. Sacred… loving… concerned… clowns.

    sacredclown.org

  • Rrauben

    Sorry to hear this about London and Pittsburgh.

    In the Madison, WI protests there has been a pronounced wariness of these sorts of provocateurs. We were fully expecting them. They never really materialized tho. They could have tho. But we were very very conscious of this as a tactic used by (yes, let us tell it like it is) fascists; and how it had disassembled other potent protests in recent years.

    Our instinctive response was to very very carefully treat the police and other folks with utmost courtesy (way way more than usual)… not as some sort of lock-step respect for authority, but rather to seed the spirit of a civility that ultimately must transcend mere rules and regulations in order to moderate tragedy, and deny such provocateurs their sort of currency.

    Madison cops have always been a fairly decent lot… high percentage of women and minorities (coming from a person who is VERY anti-authoritarian– “anarchistic” in the best and deeper sense of that word– bottom-up style governance, I mean; an absolute refusal to buy into the “necessity” of a top-heavy, over-fed heirarchy).

    And yea, some of us did wear masks. But the masks of sacred clowns. Sacred… loving… concerned… clowns.

    sacredclown.org

  • Anonymous

    Three person team per Agent Provocateurs, one to act as distraction, one with the camera and one to go for the mask. Practice makes perfect. Watch for the give aways, new clothing, protective pads, new boots, physical stature, aggressive posturing against everyone (everyone is their enemy), they hold tightly together and very uncommunicative except between themselves.
    Tackle the ones on the edges, first the distractor gets in their face careful to leave a path for the mask grabber, the mask grabber goes for the mask pull away and down fast, then the camera shot.
    Beware of direct physical assault, the distractor should sheperd get between the agent and the camera man and mask puller.
    Multiple Agent Provocateurs needs multiple disclosure teams to be effective and don’t forget to post the results on the web. Don’t forget practice, especially the mask puller.

  • rtb61

    Three person team per Agent Provocateurs, one to act as distraction, one with the camera and one to go for the mask. Practice makes perfect. Watch for the give aways, new clothing, protective pads, new boots, physical stature, aggressive posturing against everyone (everyone is their enemy), they hold tightly together and very uncommunicative except between themselves.
    Tackle the ones on the edges, first the distractor gets in their face careful to leave a path for the mask grabber, the mask grabber goes for the mask pull away and down fast, then the camera shot.
    Beware of direct physical assault, the distractor should sheperd get between the agent and the camera man and mask puller.
    Multiple Agent Provocateurs needs multiple disclosure teams to be effective and don’t forget to post the results on the web. Don’t forget practice, especially the mask puller.

    • razzlebathbone

      This is extremely helpful information, precisely the kind that needs to be spread far and wide.

      Where can I find more like this?

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I wonder where they recruit these clones? They never seem to show any outward signs of a particular cause (even as a bluff/red herring), or any personality, or even an inclination toward unusual hair. Pretty much just physically fit, macho drones waiting for a chance to blend in and start shit at a key moment. I’d suggest a series of ways for them to be more effective and actually blend in a way that creates greater credibility with the crowd…but why give them that kind of help? I rather like watching ardent neo-con stooges from law enforcement squirm with discomfort because they can’t randomly attack the dirty hippies surrounding them.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I wonder where they recruit these clones? They never seem to show any outward signs of a particular cause (even as a bluff/red herring), or any personality, or even an inclination toward unusual hair. Pretty much just physically fit, macho drones waiting for a chance to blend in and start shit at a key moment. I’d suggest a series of ways for them to be more effective and actually blend in a way that creates greater credibility with the crowd…but why give them that kind of help? I rather like watching ardent neo-con stooges from law enforcement squirm with discomfort because they can’t randomly attack the dirty hippies surrounding them.

    • http://badnewswade.livejournal.com/ badnewswade

      Wow I’m famous! :-)

      A lot of them are just natural followers. It’s like the people who support the nuclear industry – some of them are very obviously for sale, but the vast majority will be follower-types – in the case of nukers, people who think of themselves as more scientifically informed then everyone else and with issues around power, in the case of “anarchists”, people who think of themselves as more politically informed than everyone else and with anger management and Daddy issues, like I said. It’s a really quite a nasty, elitist view to have of yourself – “Vanguard Of Teh Masses” and all that.

      What’s really hilarious about all these “free thinkers” is that (a) they’re as free as sheep, and (b) not thinkers at all but heavily invested emotionally in their pet tactic / theory / technology.

  • 5by5

    I have to say, my favorite bit from a while back was when one of the REAL protesters at a non-violent event noticed one of these faux protesters was wearing boots that are only issued to the police. It was at some anti-globalization protest in Canada, and after this agent provocateur tried to get the people around him to get all aggro, this other guy noticed it pointed it out, and he was promptly “arrested” by his colleagues in the police.

    There was also another one of these, a lady (and I use that term loosely) who was spotted at several protests from Miami to Genoa trying to stir up trouble, and then somebody came across her picture in a totally unrelated article about the police, and the caption gave away that she was an officer.

    It would have been tried in Wisconsin, had that protest gone on for much longer, I guarantee it. But the protesters there should be very proud of themselves for being so self-disciplined.

    Anyways, this tactic by the cops and the corporate cons in government is getting really old, and people are on to it.

  • 5by5

    I have to say, my favorite bit from a while back was when one of the REAL protesters at a non-violent event noticed one of these faux protesters was wearing boots that are only issued to the police. It was at some anti-globalization protest in Canada, and after this agent provocateur tried to get the people around him to get all aggro, this other guy noticed it pointed it out, and he was promptly “arrested” by his colleagues in the police.

    There was also another one of these, a lady (and I use that term loosely) who was spotted at several protests from Miami to Genoa trying to stir up trouble, and then somebody came across her picture in a totally unrelated article about the police, and the caption gave away that she was an officer.

    It would have been tried in Wisconsin, had that protest gone on for much longer, I guarantee it. But the protesters there should be very proud of themselves for being so self-disciplined.

    Anyways, this tactic by the cops and the corporate cons in government is getting really old, and people are on to it.

  • 5by5

    What’s hilarious about these guys in the video above is that they are so transparently cops. They don’t chant, they’re all the same build, like they’re pulling a combination of weight training and aggressive donut eating, they walk like cops, they probably smell like cops…. I mean seriously. Give us a break. The one woman was right –who the hell are they to mock people’s First Amendment rights like that?

  • 5by5

    What’s hilarious about these guys in the video above is that they are so transparently cops. They don’t chant, they’re all the same build, like they’re pulling a combination of weight training and aggressive donut eating, they walk like cops, they probably smell like cops…. I mean seriously. Give us a break. The one woman was right –who the hell are they to mock people’s First Amendment rights like that?

  • Anonymous

    That’s all very nice, but I imagine those arbitrary distinctions you just made will be of little consolation when you are in prison.

  • Oneiric Imperium

    Recently where I live in grand rapids Michigan an act of arson was commited with a press release saying it was anarchists lashing out at gentrification. I suspect it was agent provocateurs.

  • Oneiric Imperium

    Recently where I live in grand rapids Michigan an act of arson was commited with a press release saying it was anarchists lashing out at gentrification. I suspect it was agent provocateurs.

  • Anonymous

    This is extremely helpful information, precisely the kind that needs to be spread far and wide.

    Where can I find more like this?

  • Anonymous

    This is extremely helpful information, precisely the kind that needs to be spread far and wide.

    Where can I find more like this?

  • ArgosyJones

    It should be written ‘agents provacateur’ not agent provacateurs

    • http://www.disinfo.com Disinformation

      Thanks, I think the most accept plural form is Agents Provocateurs … good correction, anything we can do to distinguish this from the lingerie company is helpful.

      • ArgosyJones

        You are correct. I was thinking the error was analagous to writing attorney generals, or passerbys, but I should have checked.

  • ArgosyJones

    It should be written ‘agents provacateur’ not agent provacateurs

  • http://disinfo.com Disinformation

    Thanks, I think the most accept plural form is Agents Provocateurs … good correction, anything we can do to distinguish this from the lingerie company is helpful.

  • ArgosyJones

    You are correct. I was thinking the error was analagous to writing attorney generals, or passerbys, but I should have checked.

  • http://badnewswade.livejournal.com/ badnewswade

    Wow I’m famous! :-)

    A lot of them are just natural followers. It’s like the people who support the nuclear industry – some of them are very obviously for sale, but the vast majority will be follower-types – in the case of nukers, people who think of themselves as more scientifically informed then everyone else and with issues around power, in the case of “anarchists”, people who think of themselves as more politically informed than everyone else and with anger management and Daddy issues, like I said. It’s a really quite a nasty, elitist view to have of yourself – “Vanguard Of Teh Masses” and all that.

    What’s really hilarious about these all these “free thinkers” is that (a) they’re as free as sheep, and (b) not thinkers at all but heavily invested emotionally in their pet tactic / theory / technology.

  • Gergith

    The worst case of this was in Montebello in Canada in 2007. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow They actually admitted after the fact that they were police….. The same police force also never confirmed nor denied whether they would use the same technique for G20 in Toronto when asked point blank in a conference.

  • Gergith

    The worst case of this was in Montebello in Canada in 2007. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow They actually admitted after the fact that they were police….. The same police force also never confirmed nor denied whether they would use the same technique for G20 in Toronto when asked point blank in a conference.

  • Bridge Troll

    While it may be your OPINION that the mood of the march was depressed and despairing, it’s my OPINION and indeed the OPINION of many of the people I went with that the mood was jubilant and hopeful. Yes, police were inactive and that may well be because media footage of people in black hoodies throwing paint around discredits legitimate protest. Then again, it may be because arresting peaceful protesters (such as those occupying Fortnum & Mason) using aggravated trespass laws is a lot easier than trying to contain an angry mob.
    If anything, the attacks on certain tax-avoiding businesses – rather than discredit the protest – caused the media to shine a spotlight on the reasons as to why those businesses were attacked.

    As for protesters being too apathetic to restrain violent individuals; you might find that many peaceful protesters actual support others who take more direct action. The TU might publically condemn violence, but at Union meetings you’ll find plenty of people (myself included) behind closed doors, clapping their hands.

    No sense of unity? This march may not have had the cohesion of the Birmingham one last year, but 500,000 people travelling from as far away as Aberdeen to gather under a comoon banner? If that’s not unity then I don’t know what is.

  • Bridge Troll

    While it may be your OPINION that the mood of the march was depressed and despairing, it’s my OPINION and indeed the OPINION of many of the people I went with that the mood was jubilant and hopeful. Yes, police were inactive and that may well be because media footage of people in black hoodies throwing paint around discredits legitimate protest. Then again, it may be because arresting peaceful protesters (such as those occupying Fortnum & Mason) using aggravated trespass laws is a lot easier than trying to contain an angry mob.
    If anything, the attacks on certain tax-avoiding businesses – rather than discredit the protest – caused the media to shine a spotlight on the reasons as to why those businesses were attacked.

    As for protesters being too apathetic to restrain violent individuals; you might find that many peaceful protesters actual support others who take more direct action. The TU might publically condemn violence, but at Union meetings you’ll find plenty of people (myself included) behind closed doors, clapping their hands.

    No sense of unity? This march may not have had the cohesion of the Birmingham one last year, but 500,000 people travelling from as far away as Aberdeen to gather under a comoon banner? If that’s not unity then I don’t know what is.

  • http://albatross.org/ Albatross

    This happens all the time, ALL THE TIME. It’s a VERY easy way to undermine the message of the most innocent and well-behaved of protests.

  • http://albatross.org Albatross

    This happens all the time, ALL THE TIME. It’s a VERY easy way to undermine the message of the most innocent and well-behaved of protests.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricardo-Smith/100001880987041 Ricardo Smith

    you should have pulled their masks off and taken pictures of their faces.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricardo-Smith/100001880987041 Ricardo Smith

    you should have pulled their masks off and taken pictures of their faces.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bernard-Forand/100000738532782 Bernard Forand

    Control of a chaotic herd with no organization is easily distracted by the cowboys ridding along side the herd and or intermingle to give guidance, to obtain the desire direction of the herd.. Even if it is to stamped it into a dead end or corral. If cowboys start to lose control then stampede herd over the cliff and salvage what remains of the meat.
    Notice how a few mad cows in the herd can disrupt the herd to panic riot, losing all sight to objective. Organized non violent demonstrations exposes the cowboys, as they seek to stampede the herd. There is where you focus the attention, on the violence of the cowboys. Devalues the significance of the cowboys, illuminates them to the demonstrators, which then can be dealt with civilly which promotes value to the demonstration and its ability to organize.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bernard-Forand/100000738532782 Bernard Forand

    Control of a chaotic herd with no organization is easily distracted by the cowboys ridding along side the herd and or intermingle to give guidance, to obtain the desire direction of the herd.. Even if it is to stamped it into a dead end or corral. If cowboys start to lose control then stampede herd over the cliff and salvage what remains of the meat.
    Notice how a few mad cows in the herd can disrupt the herd to panic riot, losing all sight to objective. Organized non violent demonstrations exposes the cowboys, as they seek to stampede the herd. There is where you focus the attention, on the violence of the cowboys. Devalues the significance of the cowboys, illuminates them to the demonstrators, which then can be dealt with civilly which promotes value to the demonstration and its ability to organize.

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