Jesse Ventura Visits Disinformation (Video)

Ventura 63 DocsJesse Ventura resumed his conversation with Gary Baddeley while visiting disinformation‘s NYC offices to promote his new book, 63 Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You to Read.

They covered everything from joining Ron Paul in the 2012 presidential election to the fall of World Trade Center 7 on 9/11, discussing many topics along the way including Colony Collapse Disorder, fluoride in municipal water supplies, legalization of drugs, and much more.

See their earlier conversations at the Russian Tea Room: Part 1 and Part 2.

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  • Schlig1111

    what’s with the static sounds at chemtrails – and – cap and trade at 36:27s?

    • http://disinfo.com/ Majestic

      HAARP transmission? Only kidding – just RF interference on Jesse’s wireless microphone I’m afraid – hope it didn’t spoil the interview for you (and thanks for making it all the way through).

  • Schlig1111

    what’s with the static sounds at chemtrails – and – cap and trade at 36:27s?

  • http://disinfo.com Majestic

    HAARP transmission? Only kidding – just RF interference on Jesse’s wireless microphone I’m afraid – hope it didn’t spoil the interview for you (and thanks for making it all the way through).

  • Happypedro

    Jesse has some good ideas and attitudes, but competition is corrosive. “Healthy competition” is an oxymoron.

    Type this into a Google search and read it: “The Case Against Competition by Alfie Kohn.”
    http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/tcac.htm

    Also, the idea that people cannot be motivated without competition is also false. Look at Daniel Pink’s work on the science of motivation:

    Type this into a Google search: “Dan Pink on the surprising science of motivation.”
    http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

    We believe competition is beneficial because that is what we’ve been told since birth. You can certainly get people to improve, say, physically, competing against others, but you can also get people do to things by pointing guns at them; doesn’t mean the method itself is healthy.

    Think of the game of Musical Chairs. Usually it is played competitively; you don’t get a chair, you’re out. Why not play it collaboratively, where 10 people try to sit on 9 chairs, then 10 people try to sit on 8, then 10 on 7, and so on? As Larry Wilkerson, assistant to Colin Powell, once said recently: The future is either going to be a bloodbath competing over dwindling resources (competitive musical chairs), or people coming together to learn how to collaborate in creative ways to solve real problems (collaborative musical chairs).

    • Guest

      Overanalyzing.

      Competition means you are measured against reality and you get a result. It is the results which compete, not you.

      Cooperation just tries to do everything at once without recognizing the existence of the participants. It devolves into a pyramid structure because it promotes paranoia about ‘the other being destructive of the sanctity of the whole’.

      I’ve seen Anonymous from the inside. None of the pro and anti competition armchair general theories work. While I applaud a bird’s eye view, such includes the individual and the viewer in the picture. Without either it is merely typical top down nonsense.

      • Happypedro

        Critical thinking (what you call overanalyzing) is essential, in my view, particularly more so today and as we go forward. For example, to ask the question, “How can we make the US economy grow?” you have to first accept all the premises built into that question: Do we want the economy to grow? Do we even want an economy, or one as we have now? Should growth be focused only on the US? Is growth defined by GDP or by GNH (Gross National Happiness)? If growth is defined by consumption, is that sustainable consumption or overconsumption to the hilt? In my view, it is not overanalyzing to ask these questions, it is simply getting down to details, being clear about the ideas, etc.

        Your definition of competition is a more narrow one than what is most widely accepted, as is your definition of cooperation. “It is the results which compete, not you,” suggests people are not involved in any competition; is that what you believe? “Cooperation just tries to do everything at once without recognizing the existence of the participants” is both a very broad (overgeneralized) and very narrow (reductive) view of collaboration; not all collaboration devolves into “pyramid structure” that “promotes paranoia” (in fact, I would argue most collaboration does not devolve into such things). Have you read and studied the findings about collaboration and competition? Explored the different aspects of each extensively? In addition to reading extensively about both, the certification program I attended at the Cooperative Learning Center at University of Minnesota also presented extensive research and studies pointing toward cooperation and collaboration as deeply beneficial, and more productive.

        I would say you are arguing for a very particular (personal) view of collaboration and competition; which you are entitled to, but I personally don’t feel it fits much with the reality I’ve observed, have heard many others talk about over many years, and the available research suggests. Collaboration/cooperation, when done well, is a balance between individual and collective, and far from “paranoid” or not “recognizing the existence of the participants.” Quite the opposite.

        What research, studies, extensive evidence do you have to support a different view?

        • Guest

          7 years of active documentation and debate with people I get along with and those I don’t on highly divisive topics and yet achieving agreement in contexts larger than standard synthesis would suggest is possible.
          4 distinct transitions in my approach to debate, interaction, and activism: Exposer, Provider, Tuner, Organizer.
          2 months working in and around Anonymous seeing precisely what works and does not.

          It’s not the choosing of one method of coordination that matters. It is the management of the energy and compactness (so it’s available to all without intermediaries) of the effort. When competition gets raw you add focus. When collaboration short circuits or gets in a vicious cycle of compromise you brainstorm.

          Armchair reading doesn’t match real live results and critique.

          • Happypedro

            I don’t believe your description contradictions my viewpoints, but simply fits within the broader ideas as part of a wide range of elements. “…yet achieving agreement in contexts larger than standard synthesis would suggest is possible” seems to suggest collaboration does work. Now, does “work” mean everything goes smoothly? Very rarely does any human endeavor go smoothly, but collaboration is quite effective and beneficial. And we do it every day. Seems to me you are simply describing some of the complex dynamics of the process, more than anything else. You say, “It’s not the choosing of one method of coordination that matters,” but I am not advocating any particular method. “Management of the energy and compactness (so it’s available to all without intermediaries) of the effort” in my view is simply one method among many (perhaps a more loosely defined, organic method, but still method / mode of operation). If you are saying this particular method/approach seems to work best from what you’ve experienced, that’s great. Good to know. Doesn’t seem, to me, to contradict what I’ve been saying in the least. Are you arguing just to argue? If not, what precisely is your point? I am not just an armchair dude; I have also been deep in the “trenches.”

          • Happypedro

            Sorry, typo: “contradicts” not “contradictions”

          • Guest

            Well then :)

            I do have a few triggers. The key thing is you either have the pulse of an effort or you take a day to watch to figure out where it went. I’ve had ideas both proved and crushed in real time.

          • Happypedro

            Good to hear / know. = )

      • Happypedro

        Wikipedia: “Competition is a contest between individuals, groups, animals, etc. for territory, a niche, or a location of resources. It arises whenever two or more parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared.”

        (If you don’t like Wikipedia, doesn’t matter, most definitions follow this basic pattern.)

        If you want to focus and limit the definition of competition to something particular (“measured against reality” as a way to “get a result”) in order to serve your personal perspective, that’s fine, but it seems fair to me to acknowledge that your definition only fits a very limited aspect of the generally understood meaning of the term.

        If I disagree with you or wish to discuss how we are talking about these terms I’m somehow “overanalyzing” but if you wish to express your viewpoint and give your particular definitions, you are somehow not doing the same?

        My personal experience is not that “cooperation tries to do everything at once” nor that it does not “recognize the existence of the participants” nor that it devolves “into a pyramid structure.” At times, those elements do arise, but the overall essence of what I’ve experienced has been immensely positive.

        Perhaps you can be more specific about what you mean, exactly, in terms of ideas and in terms of specific examples, when you say “None of the pro and anti competition armchair general theories work”?

        And can we separate the impact of the “top down nonsense” that has been shoveled into our brains since birth from how we interact? People assume competition is 100% natural because it is so pervasive; it’s like saying televisions are natural because we see them everywhere. Our culture has difficulty cooperating and collaborating because the ideas of competition have been beaten into our brains since birth — sports, business is war, certain test scores get you into this university, etc.

        There is a town in Mexico (can’t remember the name) where they are spending a good amount of money on a 20 year plan to keep their city clean; no garbage on the streets, etc. The idea was/is that as a new generation grows up they will have experienced their city as clean, and so they will have internalized this as normal, and so will continue to keep it clean as a result. And it’s working.

        Reality is what it is but it is also what we make of it.

  • Happypedro

    Jesse has some good ideas and attitudes, but competition is corrosive. “Healthy competition” is an oxymoron.

    Type this into a Google search and read it: “The Case Against Competition by Alfie Kohn.”
    http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/tcac.htm

    Also, the idea that people cannot be motivated without competition is also false. Look at Daniel Pink’s work on the science of motivation:

    Type this into a Google search: “Dan Pink on the surprising science of motivation.”
    http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

    We believe competition is beneficial because that is what we’ve been told since birth. You can certainly get people to improve, say, physically, competing against others, but you can also get people do to things by pointing guns at them; doesn’t mean the method itself is healthy.

    Think of the game of Musical Chairs. Usually it is played competitively; you don’t get a chair, you’re out. Why not play it collaboratively, where 10 people try to sit on 9 chairs, then 10 people try to sit on 8, then 10 on 7, and so on? As Larry Wilkerson, assistant to Colin Powell, once said recently: The future is either going to be a bloodbath competing over dwindling resources (competitive musical chairs), or people coming together to learn how to collaborate in creative ways to solve real problems (collaborative musical chairs).

  • GoodDoktorBad

    Jesse Ventura for “Benevolent Dictator”…

    • DeepCough

      “Jesse Ventura 2012: He’s Too Damn Reasonable!”

    • Grooveboss

      And the good doctor as his jester a king loves his jester but not the messenger of course. Jesse Reminds me of Ben franklin who was never president but had major occult influence on government and was big on printing and sharing information. and he looks like a bad ass ben franklin now FTW!!! He could star in Ben Franklin in space (instant cult hit).

  • Anonymous

    Jesse Ventura for “Benevolent Dictator”…

  • Simiantongue

    I’d just like to point out the differences here between this interview and the one posted Disinformation with Mr Ventura and George Stephanopoulos.(did I spell the right? eh anyway) The interviewer here Gary Baddeley asks, talking about information classification

    “Now that’s really interesting, because I want to know do you really think that the United States is the bad guy in the room globally, cause, you know, It’s worth nothing that despite the poor responsiveness of our government to FOIA requests most countries don’t have anything similar to the FOIA. They don’t allow any public access to classified documents.”

    Which is a very legitimate hard hitting question about what Mr Ventura is saying in his book which is after all titled “63 Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You to Read”. Just compare that to the vacuous crap that Snufalufagus was spouting in his interview. Just how or why Stephanufagus is considered mainstream and this is “alternative media” is beyond me really.

    I’d agree that it is partly what makes the US different. The actual history of document classification and it’s formative effects on the US, that’s arguable. He says further “Why would we want to venture down the road being what every other country does. It seems were going to their way, rather than them coming to our way.” I’d like to add this;

    “In 1972, thousands of official and unofficial FBI records were destroyed, upon the death of J. Edgar Hoover. In fact, in the past it was common practice for high ranking officials to destroy their most important business documents. For this reason, in 1974 the US Congress passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act, placing the presidential records of Richard Nixon in federal custody to prevent their destruction. The Act was meant to reduce secrecy at the highest levels of government, and to give historians the materials they need to perform their duties. The Presidential Records Act of 1978 expanded such protection of historical records. This was accomplished by mandating that all records of former presidents automatically become the property of the federal government upon leaving the Oval Office.

    The presidential papers of Ronald Reagan and Vice President George Bush were due to be made public when George W. Bush took office in January, 2001. However, George W. Bush first delayed the release for 90 days, and then repeated the action, pushing the date back into September, 2001. On November 1, 2001, Bush issued Executive Order 13233, limiting public access to the records of former U.S. presidents. The Bush executive order also includes the documents of former vice presidents. Many people were critical of this action, claiming that it violated both the “spirit and letter of existing US laws.” The order severely curtailed public access to presidential records and added to delays in obtaining materials from presidential libraries. On January 21, 2009, Executive Order 13233 was revoked, by executive order of President Barack Obama on his first day in office. Obama essentially restored the original Executive Order 12667.
    During his presidency, George W. Bush was accused of acting in violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978. In 2007, the Bush White House e-mail controversy was revealed. The event started when George W. Bush initiated the, unprecedented, midterm dismissal of seven United States Attorneys on December 7, 2006. The U.S. attorneys were replaced with interim appointees, under provisions in the 2005 USA PATRIOT Act reauthorization. Following the action, a congressional request was called looking for documents indicating why the attorneys were fired. This caused the Bush administration to reveal the fact that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain, that was hosted on an e-mail server not controlled by the federal government. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted by the Bush administration.”

    I’m only almost 4 minutes into the interview and I’m ranting like a loon right? I’ll try and keep the rest of my thoughts to myself for the remainder. Otherwise this will be a book. Other than to say good interview. Only 4 minutes in and you surpassed George Snufalufagus’ interview just on being more thought provoking alone.

    • Guest

      Problem 1: The tendency toward openness is irrelevant when the momentum at the present moment is in the opposite direction. People have character. You are trying to assign anthropic attributes to an abstraction. Institutionalist falacy.

      Problem 2: Argument from the implausible center.

      • Simiantongue

        Problem 1: The momentum at the present moment in the opposite direction is irrelevant when the overall tendency is toward openness. I did not make an abstraction. I only provided a factual progression. If there were abstractions made from that information I did not provide them.

        Problem 2: You’ll have to give the context.

        • Guest

          1. The earth quake might be ending (trend), but the tsunami is coming (momentum), risk isn’t over until both momentum and trend match long enough to stay away ‘from the edge’.

          2. The center view is that slippery comfortable view you get from the news when someone brings up unexpected criticism. It’s like saying that we have nothing to complain about because at least we have the means of filing FOIA. The fact that we have a Ferarri doesn’t mean there’s any gas in the tank.

          • Simiantongue

            1. Stating it metaphorically didn’t help that any. My overall point to my first post was primarily a comparative between the two types of reporting. You would have to have watched the first interview posted on Disinfo with Ventura and George Snufalufagus. Then you would had to have watched this one also to get the full context. But I don’t think you were probably talking about that comparison, that doesn’t make any sort of sense. My second point was to show that it was a little more complicated than Ventura’s explanation that we have a FOIA therefore we are supposed to be moving incrementally toward having more information. If you notice the actual instances I quoted in my first post it shows that is not necessarily the case. Which I thought was peculiar that you said it was problem, an abstraction. Just quoting actual instances showing that is not necessarily true is not any type of abstraction. So you couldn’t of meant that either. I didn’t have a third point so I’m not seeing the abstraction you refer to at all.

            I don’t think that is assigning anthropic attributes to an abstraction, firstly because it’s clearly not an abstraction. Those actual instances may be considered anthropogenic. I don’t see me attributing any human qualities to a supposed abstraction.

            2. Only need the context in my post not an explanation of what implausible center is. Don’t worry I’ll follow along if it makes any sense.

            “It’s like saying that we have nothing to complain about because at least we have the means of filing FOIA.”

            Was I saying that? I don’t see how. Neither was Ventura. How would you extrapolate that from the information I provided? I thought it showed that the FOIA was not some magic bullet if there is no information in existence to request because the information has been destroyed. It’s not a Ferarri with no gas. A high performance auto would infer something like the potential for complete disclosure to me. No gas would mean that nothing can be accomplished with it. But since there is not full disclosure then I would say the FOIA is something like a Studebaker, it has gas because you can get something from it. Only information that hasn’t been destroyed, only information that the government feels should be released. So perhaps we can refer to the FOIA as a Studebaker that runs, but it has a speed governor and can only turn left. Driving in circles if you want to use a car metaphor.

          • Grooveboss

            too long. just lost 5 second thinking about reading it. and still no

  • Simiantongue

    I’d just like to point out the differences here between this interview and the one posted Disinformation with Mr Ventura and George Stephanopoulos.(did I spell the right? eh anyway) The interviewer here Gary Baddeley asks, talking about information classification

    “Now that’s really interesting, because I want to know do you really think that the United States is the bad guy in the room globally, cause, you know, It’s worth nothing that despite the poor responsiveness of our government to FOIA requests most countries don’t have anything similar to the FOIA. They don’t allow any public access to classified documents.”

    Which is a very legitimate hard hitting question about what Mr Ventura is saying in his book which is after all titled “63 Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You to Read”. Just compare that to the vacuous crap that Snufalufagus was spouting in his interview. Just how or why Stephanufagus is considered mainstream and this is “alternative media” is beyond me really.

    I’d agree that it is partly what makes the US different. The actual history of document classification and it’s formative effects on the US, that’s arguable. He says further “Why would we want to venture down the road being what every other country does. It seems were going to their way, rather than them coming to our way.” I’d like to add this;

    “In 1972, thousands of official and unofficial FBI records were destroyed, upon the death of J. Edgar Hoover. In fact, in the past it was common practice for high ranking officials to destroy their most important business documents. For this reason, in 1974 the US Congress passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act, placing the presidential records of Richard Nixon in federal custody to prevent their destruction. The Act was meant to reduce secrecy at the highest levels of government, and to give historians the materials they need to perform their duties. The Presidential Records Act of 1978 expanded such protection of historical records. This was accomplished by mandating that all records of former presidents automatically become the property of the federal government upon leaving the Oval Office.

    The presidential papers of Ronald Reagan and Vice President George Bush were due to be made public when George W. Bush took office in January, 2001. However, George W. Bush first delayed the release for 90 days, and then repeated the action, pushing the date back into September, 2001. On November 1, 2001, Bush issued Executive Order 13233, limiting public access to the records of former U.S. presidents. The Bush executive order also includes the documents of former vice presidents. Many people were critical of this action, claiming that it violated both the “spirit and letter of existing US laws.” The order severely curtailed public access to presidential records and added to delays in obtaining materials from presidential libraries. On January 21, 2009, Executive Order 13233 was revoked, by executive order of President Barack Obama on his first day in office. Obama essentially restored the original Executive Order 12667.
    During his presidency, George W. Bush was accused of acting in violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978. In 2007, the Bush White House e-mail controversy was revealed. The event started when George W. Bush initiated the, unprecedented, midterm dismissal of seven United States Attorneys on December 7, 2006. The U.S. attorneys were replaced with interim appointees, under provisions in the 2005 USA PATRIOT Act reauthorization. Following the action, a congressional request was called looking for documents indicating why the attorneys were fired. This caused the Bush administration to reveal the fact that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain, that was hosted on an e-mail server not controlled by the federal government. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted by the Bush administration.”

    I’m only almost 4 minutes into the interview and I’m ranting like a loon right? I’ll try and keep the rest of my thoughts to myself for the remainder. Otherwise this will be a book. Other than to say good interview. Only 4 minutes in and you surpassed George Snufalufagus’ interview just on being more thought provoking alone.

  • Simiantongue

    I’d just like to point out the differences here between this interview and the one posted Disinformation with Mr Ventura and George Stephanopoulos.(did I spell the right? eh anyway) The interviewer here Gary Baddeley asks, talking about information classification

    “Now that’s really interesting, because I want to know do you really think that the United States is the bad guy in the room globally, cause, you know, It’s worth nothing that despite the poor responsiveness of our government to FOIA requests most countries don’t have anything similar to the FOIA. They don’t allow any public access to classified documents.”

    Which is a very legitimate hard hitting question about what Mr Ventura is saying in his book which is after all titled “63 Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You to Read”. Just compare that to the vacuous crap that Snufalufagus was spouting in his interview. Just how or why Stephanufagus is considered mainstream and this is “alternative media” is beyond me really.

    I’d agree that it is partly what makes the US different. The actual history of document classification and it’s formative effects on the US, that’s arguable. He says further “Why would we want to venture down the road being what every other country does. It seems were going to their way, rather than them coming to our way.” I’d like to add this;

    “In 1972, thousands of official and unofficial FBI records were destroyed, upon the death of J. Edgar Hoover. In fact, in the past it was common practice for high ranking officials to destroy their most important business documents. For this reason, in 1974 the US Congress passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act, placing the presidential records of Richard Nixon in federal custody to prevent their destruction. The Act was meant to reduce secrecy at the highest levels of government, and to give historians the materials they need to perform their duties. The Presidential Records Act of 1978 expanded such protection of historical records. This was accomplished by mandating that all records of former presidents automatically become the property of the federal government upon leaving the Oval Office.

    The presidential papers of Ronald Reagan and Vice President George Bush were due to be made public when George W. Bush took office in January, 2001. However, George W. Bush first delayed the release for 90 days, and then repeated the action, pushing the date back into September, 2001. On November 1, 2001, Bush issued Executive Order 13233, limiting public access to the records of former U.S. presidents. The Bush executive order also includes the documents of former vice presidents. Many people were critical of this action, claiming that it violated both the “spirit and letter of existing US laws.” The order severely curtailed public access to presidential records and added to delays in obtaining materials from presidential libraries. On January 21, 2009, Executive Order 13233 was revoked, by executive order of President Barack Obama on his first day in office. Obama essentially restored the original Executive Order 12667.
    During his presidency, George W. Bush was accused of acting in violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978. In 2007, the Bush White House e-mail controversy was revealed. The event started when George W. Bush initiated the, unprecedented, midterm dismissal of seven United States Attorneys on December 7, 2006. The U.S. attorneys were replaced with interim appointees, under provisions in the 2005 USA PATRIOT Act reauthorization. Following the action, a congressional request was called looking for documents indicating why the attorneys were fired. This caused the Bush administration to reveal the fact that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain, that was hosted on an e-mail server not controlled by the federal government. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted by the Bush administration.”

    I’m only almost 4 minutes into the interview and I’m ranting like a loon right? I’ll try and keep the rest of my thoughts to myself for the remainder. Otherwise this will be a book. Other than to say good interview. Only 4 minutes in and you surpassed George Snufalufagus’ interview just on being more thought provoking alone.

  • DeepCough

    “Jesse Ventura 2012: He’s Too Damn Reasonable!”

  • http://twitter.com/praticuschaotic John Doe

    Jesse, learn your words: hypothesis is the statement made on an observation and a guess; a theory is the result of the scientific process of testing and confirming the hypothesis.

  • http://twitter.com/praticuschaotic Jon Doe

    Jesse, learn your words: hypothesis is the statement made on an observation and a guess; a theory is the result of the scientific process of testing and confirming the hypothesis.

  • http://twitter.com/praticuschaotic John Doe

    I realize it’s a bit pedantic to call on that but there are so many people who have no clue what theory means that when they hear “theory of evolution” they think it’s some vague guess rather than a hard, worked out process. It’s unhealthy for society to not know the difference between hypothesis and theory…scientific ignorance will only hurt us.

  • http://twitter.com/praticuschaotic Jon Doe

    I realize it’s a bit pedantic to call on that but there are so many people who have no clue what theory means that when they hear “theory of evolution” they think it’s some vague guess rather than a hard, worked out process. It’s unhealthy for society to not know the difference between hypothesis and theory…scientific ignorance will only hurt us.

  • Anonymous

    Jesse and Prozac: totally wrong. Prozac (Fluoxetine) does not contain fluoride at all. It contains a trifluoromethyl group but this is chemically and biologically a million miles from fluoride. He’s got some good points but in this respect he’s 100% wrong.

  • Anonymous

    Jesse and Prozac: totally wrong. Prozac (Fluoxetine) does not contain fluoride at all. It contains a trifluoromethyl group but this is chemically and biologically a million miles from fluoride. He’s got some good points but in this respect he’s 100% wrong.

  • Anonymous

    Overanalyzing.

    Competition means you are measured against reality and you get a result. It is the results which compete, not you.

    Cooperation just tries to do everything at once without recognizing the existence of the participants. It devolves into a pyramid structure because it promotes paranoia about ‘the other being destructive of the sanctity of the whole’.

    I’ve seen Anonymous from the inside. None of the pro and anti competition armchair general theories work. While I applaud a bird’s eye view, such includes the individual and the viewer in the picture. Without either it is merely typical top down nonsense.

  • Anonymous

    Problem 1: The tendency toward openness is irrelevant when the momentum at the present moment is in the opposite direction. People have character. You are trying to assign anthropic attributes to an abstraction. Institutionalist falacy.

    Problem 2: Argument from the implausible center.

  • Happypedro

    Critical thinking (what you call overanalyzing) is essential, in my view, particularly more so today and as we go forward. For example, to ask the question, “How can we make the US economy grow?” you have to first accept all the premises built into that question: Do we want the economy to grow? Do we even want an economy, or one as we have now? Should growth be focused only on the US? Is growth defined by GDP or by GNH (Gross National Happiness)? If growth is defined by consumption, is that sustainable consumption or overconsumption to the hilt? In my view, it is not overanalyzing to ask these questions, it is simply getting down to details, being clear about the ideas, etc.

    Your definition of competition is a more narrow one than what is most widely accepted, as is your definition of cooperation. “It is the results which compete, not you,” suggests people are not involved in any competition; is that what you believe? “Cooperation just tries to do everything at once without recognizing the existence of the participants” is both a very broad (overgeneralized) and very narrow (reductive) view of collaboration; not all collaboration devolves into “pyramid structure” that “promotes paranoia” (in fact, I would argue most collaboration does not devolve into such things). Have you read and studied the findings about collaboration and competition? Explored the different aspects of each extensively? In addition to reading extensively about both, the certification program I attended at the Cooperative Learning Center at University of Minnesota also presented extensive research and studies pointing toward cooperation and collaboration as deeply beneficial, and more productive.

    I would say you are arguing for a very particular (personal) view of collaboration and competition; which you are entitled to, but I personally don’t feel it fits much with the reality I’ve observed, have heard many others talk about over many years, and the available research suggests. Collaboration/cooperation, when done well, is a balance between individual and collective, and far from “paranoid” or not “recognizing the existence of the participants.” Quite the opposite.

    What research, studies, extensive evidence do you have to support a different view?

  • Anonymous

    7 years of active documentation and debate with people I get along with and those I don’t on highly divisive topics and yet achieving agreement in contexts larger than standard synthesis would suggest is possible.
    4 distinct transitions in my approach to debate, interaction, and activism: Exposer, Provider, Tuner, Organizer.
    2 months working in and around Anonymous seeing precisely what works and does not.

    It’s not the choosing of one method of coordination that matters. It is the management of the energy and compactness (so it’s available to all without intermediaries) of the effort. When competition gets raw you add focus. When collaboration short circuits or gets in a vicious cycle of compromise you brainstorm.

    Armchair reading doesn’t match real live results and critique.

  • Happypedro

    I don’t believe your description contradictions my viewpoints, but simply fits within the broader ideas as part of a wide range of elements. “…yet achieving agreement in contexts larger than standard synthesis would suggest is possible” seems to suggest collaboration does work. Now, does “work” mean everything goes smoothly? Very rarely does any human endeavor go smoothly, but collaboration is quite effective and beneficial. And we do it every day. Seems to me you are simply describing some of the complex dynamics of the process, more than anything else. You say, “It’s not the choosing of one method of coordination that matters,” but I am not advocating any particular method. “Management of the energy and compactness (so it’s available to all without intermediaries) of the effort” in my view is simply one method among many (perhaps a more loosely defined, organic method, but still method / mode of operation). If you are saying this particular method/approach seems to work best from what you’ve experienced, that’s great. Good to know. Doesn’t seem, to me, to contradict what I’ve been saying in the least. Are you arguing just to argue? If not, what precisely is your point? I am not just an armchair dude; I have also been deep in the “trenches.”

  • Happypedro

    I don’t believe your description contradictions my viewpoints, but simply fits within the broader ideas as part of a wide range of elements. “…yet achieving agreement in contexts larger than standard synthesis would suggest is possible” seems to suggest collaboration does work. Now, does “work” mean everything goes smoothly? Very rarely does any human endeavor go smoothly, but collaboration is quite effective and beneficial. And we do it every day. Seems to me you are simply describing some of the complex dynamics of the process, more than anything else. You say, “It’s not the choosing of one method of coordination that matters,” but I am not advocating any particular method. “Management of the energy and compactness (so it’s available to all without intermediaries) of the effort” in my view is simply one method among many (perhaps a more loosely defined, organic method, but still method / mode of operation). If you are saying this particular method/approach seems to work best from what you’ve experienced, that’s great. Good to know. Doesn’t seem, to me, to contradict what I’ve been saying in the least. Are you arguing just to argue? If not, what precisely is your point? I am not just an armchair dude; I have also been deep in the “trenches.”

  • Happypedro

    I don’t believe your description contradictions my viewpoints, but simply fits within the broader ideas as part of a wide range of elements. “…yet achieving agreement in contexts larger than standard synthesis would suggest is possible” seems to suggest collaboration does work. Now, does “work” mean everything goes smoothly? Very rarely does any human endeavor go smoothly, but collaboration is quite effective and beneficial. And we do it every day. Seems to me you are simply describing some of the complex dynamics of the process, more than anything else. You say, “It’s not the choosing of one method of coordination that matters,” but I am not advocating any particular method. “Management of the energy and compactness (so it’s available to all without intermediaries) of the effort” in my view is simply one method among many (perhaps a more loosely defined, organic method, but still method / mode of operation). If you are saying this particular method/approach seems to work best from what you’ve experienced, that’s great. Good to know. Doesn’t seem, to me, to contradict what I’ve been saying in the least. Are you arguing just to argue? If not, what precisely is your point? I am not just an armchair dude; I have also been deep in the “trenches.”

  • Happypedro

    Sorry, typo: “contradicts” not “contradictions”

  • Happypedro

    Wikipedia: “Competition is a contest between individuals, groups, animals, etc. for territory, a niche, or a location of resources. It arises whenever two or more parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared.”

    (If you don’t like Wikipedia, doesn’t matter, most definitions follow this basic pattern.)

    If you want to focus and limit the definition of competition to something particular (“measured against reality” as a way to “get a result”) in order to serve your personal perspective, that’s fine, but it seems fair to me to acknowledge that your definition only fits a very limited aspect of the generally understood meaning of the term.

    If I disagree with you or wish to discuss how we are talking about these terms I’m somehow “overanalyzing” but if you wish to express your viewpoint and give your particular definitions, you are somehow not doing the same?

    My personal experience is not that “cooperation tries to do everything at once” nor that it does not “recognize the existence of the participants” nor that it devolves “into a pyramid structure.” At times, those elements do arise, but the overall essence of what I’ve experienced has been immensely positive.

    Perhaps you can be more specific about what you mean, exactly, in terms of ideas and in terms of specific examples, when you say “None of the pro and anti competition armchair general theories work”?

    And can we separate the impact of the “top down nonsense” that has been shoveled into our brains since birth from how we interact? People assume competition is 100% natural because it is so pervasive; it’s like saying televisions are natural because we see them everywhere. Our culture has difficulty cooperating and collaborating because the ideas of competition have been beaten into our brains since birth — sports, business is war, certain test scores get you into this university, etc.

    There is a town in Mexico (can’t remember the name) where they are spending a good amount of money on a 20 year plan to keep their city clean; no garbage on the streets, etc. The idea was/is that as a new generation grows up they will have experienced their city as clean, and so they will have internalized this as normal, and so will continue to keep it clean as a result. And it’s working.

    Reality is what it is but it is also what we make of it.

  • Anonymous

    Well then :)

    I do have a few triggers. The key thing is you either have the pulse of an effort or you take a day to watch to figure out where it went. I’ve had ideas both proved and crushed in real time.

  • Happypedro

    Good to hear / know. = )

  • Fredryno

    Too much to detail right now but the honest truth begins with the election of a Marxist President and his devoted followers. Exactly, what is honest truth? Reality questioned? Are we truly experiencing what we are seeing and hearing? Do we dare pause long enough to validate? Do we even trust our own conclusions? Did we elect a Muslim as President of the United States? How can we find out when Islamic law teaches that is is valid to lie when asked any questions that might appear to slander Islam? Is that like swearing on a Holy Bible? Obviously not. So much for American Justice. http://www.departmentofhomelandsurrender.com has become the true predictor of American fate. Be safe and stand firm. Beware of the internal threats. They are not imagined. flr

  • Fredryno

    Too much to detail right now but the honest truth begins with the election of a Marxist President and his devoted followers. Exactly, what is honest truth? Reality questioned? Are we truly experiencing what we are seeing and hearing? Do we dare pause long enough to validate? Do we even trust our own conclusions? Did we elect a Muslim as President of the United States? How can we find out when Islamic law teaches that is is valid to lie when asked any questions that might appear to slander Islam? Is that like swearing on a Holy Bible? Obviously not. So much for American Justice. http://www.departmentofhomelandsurrender.com has become the true predictor of American fate. Be safe and stand firm. Beware of the internal threats. They are not imagined. flr

  • Simiantongue

    Problem 1: The momentum at the present moment in the opposite direction is irrelevant when the overall tendency is toward openness. I did not make an abstraction. I only provided a factual progression. If there were abstractions made from that information I did not provide them.

    Problem 2: You’ll have to give the context.

  • Anonymous

    1. The earth quake might be ending (trend), but the tsunami is coming (momentum), risk isn’t over until both momentum and trend match long enough to stay away ‘from the edge’.

    2. The center view is that slippery comfortable view you get from the news when someone brings up unexpected criticism. It’s like saying that we have nothing to complain about because at least we have the means of filing FOIA. The fact that we have a Ferarri doesn’t mean there’s any gas in the tank.

  • Paul Panza (who are you)

    Does anyone use their real name anymore or has the fact that we are no longer a government but a military operation got the fear factor off the scale. As far as I can read the commenting people here are not willing to be responsible for their actions.

  • Paul Panza (who are you)

    Does anyone use their real name anymore or has the fact that we are no longer a government but a military operation got the fear factor off the scale. As far as I can read the commenting people here are not willing to be responsible for their actions.

    • TheWrongStuff

      I agree entirely. Please post your full name, mothers maiden name, SS #, home address, previous residence for the last 10 years, phone number, alias’, criminal history, email address, places of employment, the name of all your children and pets as well as a recent picture of all of the above.

      I will then personally make sure that you are held responsible for your actions.

  • Simiantongue

    1. Stating it metaphorically didn’t help that any. My overall point to my first post was primarily a comparative between the two types of reporting. You would have to have watched the first interview posted on Disinfo with Ventura and George Snufalufagus. Then you would had to have watched this one also to get the full context. But I don’t think you were probably talking about that comparison, that doesn’t make any sort of sense. My second point was to show that it was a little more complicated than Ventura’s explanation that we have a FOIA therefore we are supposed to be moving incrementally toward having more information. If you notice the actual instances I quoted in my first post it shows that is not necessarily the case. Which I thought was peculiar that you said it was problem, an abstraction. Just quoting actual instances showing that is not necessarily true is not any type of abstraction. So you couldn’t of meant that either. I didn’t have a third point so I’m not seeing the abstraction you refer to at all.

    I don’t think that is assigning anthropic attributes to an abstraction, firstly because it’s clearly not an abstraction. Those actual instances may be considered anthropogenic. I don’t see me attributing any human qualities to a supposed abstraction.

    2. Only need the context in my post not an explanation of what implausible center is. Don’t worry I’ll follow along if it makes any sense.

    “It’s like saying that we have nothing to complain about because at least we have the means of filing FOIA.”

    Was I saying that? I don’t see how. Neither was Ventura. How would you extrapolate that from the information I provided? I thought it showed that the FOIA was not some magic bullet if there is no information in existence to request because the information has been destroyed. It’s not a Ferarri with no gas. A high performance auto would infer something like the potential for complete disclosure to me. No gas would mean that nothing can be accomplished with it. But since there is not full disclosure then I would say the FOIA is something like a Studebaker, it has gas because you can get something from it. Only information that hasn’t been destroyed, only information that the government feels should be released. So perhaps we can refer to the FOIA as a Studebaker that runs, but it has a speed governor and can only turn left. Driving in circles if you want to use a car metaphor.

  • TheWrongStuff

    I agree entirely. Please post your full name, mothers maiden name, SS #, home address, previous residence for the last 10 years, phone number, alias’, criminal history, email address, places of employment, the name of all your children and pets as well as a recent picture of all of the above.

    I will then personally make sure that you are held responsible for your actions.

  • Mhonohan

    Tell it Jesse!

  • Mhonohan

    Tell it Jesse!

  • Grooveboss

    And the good doctor as his jester a king loves his jester but not the messenger of course. Jesse Reminds me of Ben franklin who was never president but had major occult influence on government and was big on printing and sharing information. and he looks like a bad ass ben franklin now FTW!!! He could star in Ben Franklin in space (instant cult hit).

  • Grooveboss

    attention trolls of disinfo: COMMENTS THAT ARE TOO LONG ARE NOT PRACTICAL. I don’t have time to read it. Commenting is an art like a haiku but with less style rules. Compress! I don’t have time to read your unreleased college thesis. Thanx from a fan of comments. One day ill learn how to be a speed reader but then i wont read anymore too EZ

  • Grooveboss

    attention trolls of disinfo: COMMENTS THAT ARE TOO LONG ARE NOT PRACTICAL. I don’t have time to read it. Commenting is an art like a haiku but with less style rules. Compress! I don’t have time to read your unreleased college thesis. Thanx from a fan of comments. One day ill learn how to be a speed reader but then i wont read anymore too EZ

  • Lunalinda47

    love jesse!! if all came to the realization that we are all one,,,expressing as the many,and to do an injustice to another would be doing that injustice to oneself…we are all one,,,why not an enlightened one world???? ,,,now that would be sweet,,peace

  • Lunalinda47

    love jesse!! if all came to the realization that we are all one,,,expressing as the many,and to do an injustice to another would be doing that injustice to oneself…we are all one,,,why not an enlightened one world???? ,,,now that would be sweet,,peace

  • Grooveboss

    too long. just lost 5 second thinking about reading it. and still no

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dory-Mclaughlin/567487898 Dory Mclaughlin

    Jesse for President, so we can take our country back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (not Ron Paul….he just said he’d get rid of medicare and ss….he just lost my support)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dory-Mclaughlin/567487898 Dory Mclaughlin

    Jesse for President, so we can take our country back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (not Ron Paul….he just said he’d get rid of medicare and ss….he just lost my support)

  • NextLevelNow

    First we need to realize that our problems stem from our outdated system of cyclical consumption, scarcity, competition, etc.. Second of all realize that it is not necessary or sustainable to continue this way. And thirdly, through intelligent design and utilization of the best of our technology [independent of money], we can evolve into a sustainable world system.
    http://www.thevenusproject.com
    http://youtu.be/4Z9WVZddH9w
    http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com

  • NextLevelNow

    First we need to realize that our problems stem from our outdated system of cyclical consumption, scarcity, competition, etc.. Second of all realize that it is not necessary or sustainable to continue this way. And thirdly, through intelligent design and utilization of the best of our technology [independent of money], we can evolve into a sustainable world system.
    http://www.thevenusproject.com
    http://youtu.be/4Z9WVZddH9w
    http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com

  • NextLevelNow

    Summery of a Resource Based Economy>>
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/zeitgeist-movement-australia/what-is-a-resource-based-economy-quest-for-sustainable-abundance/10150173919048168

    No need for government/dictators/money/politics/war/poverty/crime/deceit etc.

  • http://twitter.com/resisttheorder Night Walker

    ha ha, jessie ventura the shill came to visit you guys? and you welcomed him? LMFAO! well, this just confirms my suspicions of this website. disinformation is just that – DISINFORMATION!

    you sponsorin paid and bought for shills on your website, plus you link to other shills material such as aleister crowley and many more…

  • http://twitter.com/resisttheorder Night Walker

    ha ha, jessie ventura the shill came to visit you guys? and you welcomed him? LMFAO! well, this just confirms my suspicions of this website. disinformation is just that – DISINFORMATION!

    you sponsorin paid and bought for shills on your website, plus you link to other shills material such as aleister crowley and many more…

  • Tony Cancer

    the static is really creepy, I was just reading about white noise yesterday

  • Tony Cancer

    the static is really creepy, I was just reading about white noise yesterday

  • Bwmmiller

    Yankee Doodle, full blinkers on, corporatist baloney propagandist machines blaring in his ears, stars straight up his own ass-hole, searching for answers, finding only Shiite, while China develops Thorium fueled, plutonium free, waste benign, nuclear reactors, to generate clean electricity, to power bullet-train networks, electric infrastructures, for communal life for human-kind. Chinese communists will daisy-chain these units across to Europe’s eastern borders, up through Siberia’s rich natural resources to northern seas, and out to China’s seas. This empire is growing as we speak, regardless of what America does, and on a scale that will tower over all America’s future actions. Asia will pay higher prices for oil as she grows, than Americans can afford! Asians have taken America’s manufacturing, industrial prowess, and even see food-stuffs to America now!

    You look! You see! Google, Tsinghua University, China, pebble bed gas reactors – The Chinese intelligentsia did this themselves, not through reverse engineering, not through spy networks! This is for real! They do so have working reactors, up and running today, not Ge Mk5 knock-offs, but superior designs, with more to come! They seek with billions of Yuan invested, Thorium fueled , fail safe, plutonium free, benign waste product, nuclear reactors far superior to American designs from the 1970′s, and they will get them!

    you look! you judge! Google, Torrent, the documentary, “Who Stole The Electric Car”, study it! tell me, tell yourself: Where did the domestically produce-able, without expensive lithium imports, proven adequate, NiMH, American designed batteries go? Where did the fantastically efficient, rare-earth magnet, electric motors go? What other ‘proprietary secret’ devices were sent to the hammer mills? Why? Did Corporate desires, corporate ‘laws’ over-ride the good of the American people here?

    Who are the Caucasian Ashkenazi’s? Where did they come from? What do they want? Genesis 6, 2? The reminents?

    Why have the American workers, the proletariat, been reduced by the corporations to precariat? then disenfranchised totally, even facing suspension from decent medical care, preparing for slow extinction? Is this a form of population selection, akin to genocide? Will the corporate powers ever clear the asylums? With machine guns? Rare diseases? Sudden ‘influenza outbreaks’?

    America world’s largest debtor nation in the world! Meanwhile, Asia bursts ahead. How cum?

    What-ever happened to the Toyota, Rav 4 EV? Its NiMH lithium free batteries?

    Does the U.S. Military Machine have an oil sensitive Achilles heel? Yes it does! It depends on OPEC parasite nation foreign oil folks!

    Can super batteries be made using depleted uranium? Is this a U.S. Navy secret? As rumored on this same net?

    Why do Canadians allow ‘Scrubbed’ Diesels even in their underground operations and claim no harm done to the workers their? Do they know something we don’t know about diesel exhaust?

    Did you know, Iran sold, the largest oil find in the Middle East since the 1920′s, the huge, South Azadegan Oil Field, to China? Question is: Are there Chinese nukes guarding this precious purchase?Do we know other-wise?

    BPA plastica are causing shorter penises in America! This is a fact! Nothing is being done! Capitalists don’t have to nut Americans, they sell BPA’s and cut off their dicks instead! Goddammit! Can be verified on many web-pages!

    Israel’s Dimona nuclear power station – is much bigger than its power output. How cum?

    Did you know . . . 25% of India’s population with the highest IQ’s . . . is greater than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more English speaking folk in China than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more Chinese on the internet than Americans!

    MADRAS – in Pakistan, schools ever America shoud know about!

    Aerogels – Secret, super-insulations made from them – could reduce heating, cooling bills by at least 90% – covertly hidden by American capitalism from the common folk, developed years ago, work just fine.

    Look up Ground source heat pumps, then Straw Bale buildings! Can you live energy free both for summer cooling, winter heating, in North America? Yes you can! Secretive off-grid society knows this and much much more! They lurk on the internet, hide their true locations, live comfortably combining many older forgotten technologies, even stack-wood buildings, and newer technologies, LED lights, Solar panels, rare-earth magnet Wind generators, to live a new tax-free lifestyle! Seek them out on the web! Learn from them! They hide many good answers! They have beat the 9 to 5 existence and are truly free!

    • 0007

      thanksI’m always looking for someone outside to say something…I’;; be looking into these things.

  • Bwmmiller

    Yankee Doodle, full blinkers on, corporatist baloney propagandist machines blaring in his ears, stars straight up his own ass-hole, searching for answers, finding only Shiite, while China develops Thorium fueled, plutonium free, waste benign, nuclear reactors, to generate clean electricity, to power bullet-train networks, electric infrastructures, for communal life for human-kind. Chinese communists will daisy-chain these units across to Europe’s eastern borders, up through Siberia’s rich natural resources to northern seas, and out to China’s seas. This empire is growing as we speak, regardless of what America does, and on a scale that will tower over all America’s future actions. Asia will pay higher prices for oil as she grows, than Americans can afford! Asians have taken America’s manufacturing, industrial prowess, and even see food-stuffs to America now!

    You look! You see! Google, Tsinghua University, China, pebble bed gas reactors – The Chinese intelligentsia did this themselves, not through reverse engineering, not through spy networks! This is for real! They do so have working reactors, up and running today, not Ge Mk5 knock-offs, but superior designs, with more to come! They seek with billions of Yuan invested, Thorium fueled , fail safe, plutonium free, benign waste product, nuclear reactors far superior to American designs from the 1970′s, and they will get them!

    you look! you judge! Google, Torrent, the documentary, “Who Stole The Electric Car”, study it! tell me, tell yourself: Where did the domestically produce-able, without expensive lithium imports, proven adequate, NiMH, American designed batteries go? Where did the fantastically efficient, rare-earth magnet, electric motors go? What other ‘proprietary secret’ devices were sent to the hammer mills? Why? Did Corporate desires, corporate ‘laws’ over-ride the good of the American people here?

    Who are the Caucasian Ashkenazi’s? Where did they come from? What do they want? Genesis 6, 2? The reminents?

    Why have the American workers, the proletariat, been reduced by the corporations to precariat? then disenfranchised totally, even facing suspension from decent medical care, preparing for slow extinction? Is this a form of population selection, akin to genocide? Will the corporate powers ever clear the asylums? With machine guns? Rare diseases? Sudden ‘influenza outbreaks’?

    America world’s largest debtor nation in the world! Meanwhile, Asia bursts ahead. How cum?

    What-ever happened to the Toyota, Rav 4 EV? Its NiMH lithium free batteries?

    Does the U.S. Military Machine have an oil sensitive Achilles heel? Yes it does! It depends on OPEC parasite nation foreign oil folks!

    Can super batteries be made using depleted uranium? Is this a U.S. Navy secret? As rumored on this same net?

    Why do Canadians allow ‘Scrubbed’ Diesels even in their underground operations and claim no harm done to the workers their? Do they know something we don’t know about diesel exhaust?

    Did you know, Iran sold, the largest oil find in the Middle East since the 1920′s, the huge, South Azadegan Oil Field, to China? Question is: Are there Chinese nukes guarding this precious purchase?Do we know other-wise?

    BPA plastica are causing shorter penises in America! This is a fact! Nothing is being done! Capitalists don’t have to nut Americans, they sell BPA’s and cut off their dicks instead! Goddammit! Can be verified on many web-pages!

    Israel’s Dimona nuclear power station – is much bigger than its power output. How cum?

    Did you know . . . 25% of India’s population with the highest IQ’s . . . is greater than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more English speaking folk in China than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more Chinese on the internet than Americans!

    MADRAS – in Pakistan, schools ever America shoud know about!

    Aerogels – Secret, super-insulations made from them – could reduce heating, cooling bills by at least 90% – covertly hidden by American capitalism from the common folk, developed years ago, work just fine.

    Look up Ground source heat pumps, then Straw Bale buildings! Can you live energy free both for summer cooling, winter heating, in North America? Yes you can! Secretive off-grid society knows this and much much more! They lurk on the internet, hide their true locations, live comfortably combining many older forgotten technologies, even stack-wood buildings, and newer technologies, LED lights, Solar panels, rare-earth magnet Wind generators, to live a new tax-free lifestyle! Seek them out on the web! Learn from them! They hide many good answers! They have beat the 9 to 5 existence and are truly free!

  • Bwmmiller

    Yankee Doodle, full blinkers on, corporatist baloney propagandist machines blaring in his ears, stars straight up his own ass-hole, searching for answers, finding only Shiite, while China develops Thorium fueled, plutonium free, waste benign, nuclear reactors, to generate clean electricity, to power bullet-train networks, electric infrastructures, for communal life for human-kind. Chinese communists will daisy-chain these units across to Europe’s eastern borders, up through Siberia’s rich natural resources to northern seas, and out to China’s seas. This empire is growing as we speak, regardless of what America does, and on a scale that will tower over all America’s future actions. Asia will pay higher prices for oil as she grows, than Americans can afford! Asians have taken America’s manufacturing, industrial prowess, and even see food-stuffs to America now!

    You look! You see! Google, Tsinghua University, China, pebble bed gas reactors – The Chinese intelligentsia did this themselves, not through reverse engineering, not through spy networks! This is for real! They do so have working reactors, up and running today, not Ge Mk5 knock-offs, but superior designs, with more to come! They seek with billions of Yuan invested, Thorium fueled , fail safe, plutonium free, benign waste product, nuclear reactors far superior to American designs from the 1970′s, and they will get them!

    you look! you judge! Google, Torrent, the documentary, “Who Stole The Electric Car”, study it! tell me, tell yourself: Where did the domestically produce-able, without expensive lithium imports, proven adequate, NiMH, American designed batteries go? Where did the fantastically efficient, rare-earth magnet, electric motors go? What other ‘proprietary secret’ devices were sent to the hammer mills? Why? Did Corporate desires, corporate ‘laws’ over-ride the good of the American people here?

    Who are the Caucasian Ashkenazi’s? Where did they come from? What do they want? Genesis 6, 2? The reminents?

    Why have the American workers, the proletariat, been reduced by the corporations to precariat? then disenfranchised totally, even facing suspension from decent medical care, preparing for slow extinction? Is this a form of population selection, akin to genocide? Will the corporate powers ever clear the asylums? With machine guns? Rare diseases? Sudden ‘influenza outbreaks’?

    America world’s largest debtor nation in the world! Meanwhile, Asia bursts ahead. How cum?

    What-ever happened to the Toyota, Rav 4 EV? Its NiMH lithium free batteries?

    Does the U.S. Military Machine have an oil sensitive Achilles heel? Yes it does! It depends on OPEC parasite nation foreign oil folks!

    Can super batteries be made using depleted uranium? Is this a U.S. Navy secret? As rumored on this same net?

    Why do Canadians allow ‘Scrubbed’ Diesels even in their underground operations and claim no harm done to the workers their? Do they know something we don’t know about diesel exhaust?

    Did you know, Iran sold, the largest oil find in the Middle East since the 1920′s, the huge, South Azadegan Oil Field, to China? Question is: Are there Chinese nukes guarding this precious purchase?Do we know other-wise?

    BPA plastica are causing shorter penises in America! This is a fact! Nothing is being done! Capitalists don’t have to nut Americans, they sell BPA’s and cut off their dicks instead! Goddammit! Can be verified on many web-pages!

    Israel’s Dimona nuclear power station – is much bigger than its power output. How cum?

    Did you know . . . 25% of India’s population with the highest IQ’s . . . is greater than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more English speaking folk in China than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more Chinese on the internet than Americans!

    MADRAS – in Pakistan, schools ever America shoud know about!

    Aerogels – Secret, super-insulations made from them – could reduce heating, cooling bills by at least 90% – covertly hidden by American capitalism from the common folk, developed years ago, work just fine.

    Look up Ground source heat pumps, then Straw Bale buildings! Can you live energy free both for summer cooling, winter heating, in North America? Yes you can! Secretive off-grid society knows this and much much more! They lurk on the internet, hide their true locations, live comfortably combining many older forgotten technologies, even stack-wood buildings, and newer technologies, LED lights, Solar panels, rare-earth magnet Wind generators, to live a new tax-free lifestyle! Seek them out on the web! Learn from them! They hide many good answers! They have beat the 9 to 5 existence and are truly free!

  • Bwmmiller

    Yankee Doodle, full blinkers on, corporatist baloney propagandist machines blaring in his ears, stars straight up his own ass-hole, searching for answers, finding only Shiite, while China develops Thorium fueled, plutonium free, waste benign, nuclear reactors, to generate clean electricity, to power bullet-train networks, electric infrastructures, for communal life for human-kind. Chinese communists will daisy-chain these units across to Europe’s eastern borders, up through Siberia’s rich natural resources to northern seas, and out to China’s seas. This empire is growing as we speak, regardless of what America does, and on a scale that will tower over all America’s future actions. Asia will pay higher prices for oil as she grows, than Americans can afford! Asians have taken America’s manufacturing, industrial prowess, and even see food-stuffs to America now!

    You look! You see! Google, Tsinghua University, China, pebble bed gas reactors – The Chinese intelligentsia did this themselves, not through reverse engineering, not through spy networks! This is for real! They do so have working reactors, up and running today, not Ge Mk5 knock-offs, but superior designs, with more to come! They seek with billions of Yuan invested, Thorium fueled , fail safe, plutonium free, benign waste product, nuclear reactors far superior to American designs from the 1970′s, and they will get them!

    you look! you judge! Google, Torrent, the documentary, “Who Stole The Electric Car”, study it! tell me, tell yourself: Where did the domestically produce-able, without expensive lithium imports, proven adequate, NiMH, American designed batteries go? Where did the fantastically efficient, rare-earth magnet, electric motors go? What other ‘proprietary secret’ devices were sent to the hammer mills? Why? Did Corporate desires, corporate ‘laws’ over-ride the good of the American people here?

    Who are the Caucasian Ashkenazi’s? Where did they come from? What do they want? Genesis 6, 2? The reminents?

    Why have the American workers, the proletariat, been reduced by the corporations to precariat? then disenfranchised totally, even facing suspension from decent medical care, preparing for slow extinction? Is this a form of population selection, akin to genocide? Will the corporate powers ever clear the asylums? With machine guns? Rare diseases? Sudden ‘influenza outbreaks’?

    America world’s largest debtor nation in the world! Meanwhile, Asia bursts ahead. How cum?

    What-ever happened to the Toyota, Rav 4 EV? Its NiMH lithium free batteries?

    Does the U.S. Military Machine have an oil sensitive Achilles heel? Yes it does! It depends on OPEC parasite nation foreign oil folks!

    Can super batteries be made using depleted uranium? Is this a U.S. Navy secret? As rumored on this same net?

    Why do Canadians allow ‘Scrubbed’ Diesels even in their underground operations and claim no harm done to the workers their? Do they know something we don’t know about diesel exhaust?

    Did you know, Iran sold, the largest oil find in the Middle East since the 1920′s, the huge, South Azadegan Oil Field, to China? Question is: Are there Chinese nukes guarding this precious purchase?Do we know other-wise?

    BPA plastica are causing shorter penises in America! This is a fact! Nothing is being done! Capitalists don’t have to nut Americans, they sell BPA’s and cut off their dicks instead! Goddammit! Can be verified on many web-pages!

    Israel’s Dimona nuclear power station – is much bigger than its power output. How cum?

    Did you know . . . 25% of India’s population with the highest IQ’s . . . is greater than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more English speaking folk in China than the total population of the U.S.!

    There are more Chinese on the internet than Americans!

    MADRAS – in Pakistan, schools ever America shoud know about!

    Aerogels – Secret, super-insulations made from them – could reduce heating, cooling bills by at least 90% – covertly hidden by American capitalism from the common folk, developed years ago, work just fine.

    Look up Ground source heat pumps, then Straw Bale buildings! Can you live energy free both for summer cooling, winter heating, in North America? Yes you can! Secretive off-grid society knows this and much much more! They lurk on the internet, hide their true locations, live comfortably combining many older forgotten technologies, even stack-wood buildings, and newer technologies, LED lights, Solar panels, rare-earth magnet Wind generators, to live a new tax-free lifestyle! Seek them out on the web! Learn from them! They hide many good answers! They have beat the 9 to 5 existence and are truly free!

  • 0007

    thanksI’m always looking for someone outside to say something…I’;; be looking into these things.

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