Anatomy of a Murder: How NATO Killed Qaddafi Family Members

Muammar Gadaffi. Photo: James (Jim) Gordon (CC)

Muammar Gadaffi. Photo: James (Jim) Gordon (CC)

Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney sent this report out to her email list today. It’s worth reading.

How many times must a parent bury a child?

Well, in the case of Muammar Qaddafi it’s not only twice: once for his daughter, murdered by the United States bombing on his home in 1986, and again on 30 April 2011 when his youngest son, Saif al Arab, but yet again for three young children, grandbabies of Muammar Qaddafi killed along with Saif at the family home.

Now, I watched Cindy Sheehan as she bared her soul before us in her grief; I cried when Cindy cried. Now, how must Qaddafi and his wife feel? And the people of Libya, parents of all the nation’s children gone too soon. I don’t even want to imagine.

All my mother could say in astonishment was, “They killed the babies, they killed his grandbabies.”

The news reports, however, didn’t last more than one half of a news cycle because on 1 May, at a hastily assembled press conference, President Obama announced the murder of Osama bin Laden.

Well, I haven’t forgotten my empathy for Cindy Sheehan; I haven’t forgotten my concern for the children of Iraq that Madeleine Albright said were OK to kill by U.S. sanctions if U.S. geopolitical goals were achieved. I care about the children of Palestine who throw stones at Israeli soldiers and get laser-guided bullets to their brains in return. I care about the people of North Africa and West Asia who are ready to risk their lives for freedom. In fact, I care about all of the children–from Appalachia to the Cancer Alley, from New York City to San Diego, and everywhere in-between.

On 22 May 2011, I had the opportunity to visit the residence of the Qaddafi family, bombed to smithereens by NATO. For a leader, the house seemed small in comparison, say, to the former Clinton family home in Chappaqua or the Obama family home. It was a small whitewashed suburban type house in a typical residential area in metropolitan Tripoli. It was surrounded by dozens of other family homes.

I spoke with a neighbor who described how three separate smart bombs hit the home and exploded, another one not exploding. According to the BBC, the NATO military operations chief stated that a “command and control center” had been hit. That is a lie. As anyone who visits the home can see, this home had nothing to do with NATO’s war. The strike against this home had everything to do with NATO adopting a policy of targeted assassination and extra-judicial killing–clearly illegal.

The neighbor said he found Saif Al-Arab in his bedroom underneath rubble; the three young grandchildren were in a different room and they were shredded to pieces. He told of how he picked up as many pieces as he possibly could. He told us that there are still pieces there that he could not get. He asked us to note the smell–not the putrid smell of rotting flesh, but a sweet smell. I did smell it and thought there was an air freshener nearby. It smelled to me of roses. He asked me why this was done and who was going to hold NATO accountable.

Muammar Qaddafi was at the house. But he was outside near where the animals are kept. It is a miracle that he survived. From the looks of that house and the small guest house beside it, the strike was a complete success if the goal was to totally and thoroughly demolish the structure and everything inside it.

NATO wants us to believe that toys, items and clothing, an opened Holy Koran, and a soccer board game are the appointments found in military command and control offices. I wonder if we could find such articles in NATO’s office in Brussels.

The opened Holy Koran seemed to be frozen in time. In fact, there was a clock dangling from its cord–dangling in space. And indeed, for the four young people in that house at the time of NATO’s attack, time had stopped.

The concussion fron the bombs were so great that eery tile on the walls and floors of the home had been knocked from the walls. Black burn marks scorched the walls. The force broke a marble or granite countertop. The bathtub was literally split into two parts. Shards of the bomb were everywhere. I wondered if the place was now contaminated with depleted uranium.

The Qaddafi home is a crime scene–a murder scene. The United States prisons are full of men and women who are innocent–even on death row. I wonder where the guilty who are never prosecuted go.

Now, if the International Court of Justice were really a repository of justice, it would be investigating this crime. Instead, it is looking for yet another African to prosecute. We in the United States are familiar with this: on our local news every night, we are saturated with photos of Black and Brown criminals with the implication being that White people don’t commit crime. The moment the face of someone arrested is not shown, then we know that the culprit is White. It’s the unwritten code that we people of color all live by wherever in the world we might happen to be. Global apartheid is alive and well and exists on many levels.

I left the house sick in my heart. As I was about to depart, the neighbor begged me, asked me over and over again, why had this happened? What had they done to deserve this? He seemed to not want me to leave. Honestly, I think I was his little piece of America, his little piece of President Obama and I could help him to understand why this course of action was necessary from my President’s point of view. He said NATO should just leave them alone and let them sort out their problems on their own.

I did leave his presence, but that man’s face will never leave me.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. warned, “History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.”

In response to my previous article, “NATO, A Feast of Blood,” I received the following quite about Buddha from Shiva Shankar who excerpted Walpola Rahula’s “What The Buddha Taught:”

“… The Buddha not only taught non-violence and peace, but he even went to the field of battle itself and intervened personally, and prevented war, as in the case of the dispute between the Sakyas and the Koliyas, who were prepared to fight over the question of the waters of the Rohini. And his words once prevented King Ajatasattu from attacking the kingdom of the Vajjis. …

… Here is a lesson for the world today. The ruler of an empire publicly turning his back on war and violence and embraced the message of peace and non-violence. There is no historical evidence to show that any neighbouring king took advantage of Asoka’s piety to attack him militarily, or that there was any revolt or rebellion within his empire during his lifetime. On the contrary there was peace throughout the land, and even countries outside his empire seem to have accepted his benign leadership. …”

Please don’t allow special interest press and war mongering gatekeepers of the left to blot out the tragedy unfolding in Libya. Please don’t allow them to take away our chance to live in peace throughout our land and with countries inside and outside our hemisphere. Congress should vote to end NATO’s action in Libya and barring that should assert its Constitutional prerogatives and require the President to come to it for authorization of this war. And then, Congress should heed the wisdom of the people of our country who are against this war and vote for peace.

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  • GoodDoktorBad

    It must be very similar to having lived in Nazi Germany. Pumped full of pride and propaganda we cheer like the spectators we are and sit dumbly as the blood washes down the drain. The world is our Gladiator ring and it takes flesh of all kinds to let the show continue….and it must continue…so they say….

    • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

      come you, masters of war, you that build the big guns, you that build the death planes, you that build all the bombs, you that hide behind walls, you that hide behind desks….i just want you to know i can see through your masks….happy 70th bob!

  • Anonymous

    It must have been very similar to having lived in Nazi Germany. Pumped full of pride and propaganda we cheer like the spectators we are and sit dumbly as the blood washes down the drain. The world is our Gladiator ring and it takes flesh of all kinds to let the show continue….and it must continue…so they say….   

  • Grooveboss

    The country obviously needs to be divided in two. 

    • Hadrian999

      why not, worked so well for india, pakastan, north and south vietnam

      • Grooveboss

        might not work well but its better then trying genocide first

        • Hadrian999

          those aren’t the only choices

          • Grooveboss

            umm according to what i see it seems to be. Or he steps down, but it seems he is not about to do that anytime soon.

          • Hadrian999

            it in not our responcibility to adminster the world, there is no requirement that we take any action with respect to Libya.

          • Grooveboss

            all in all if the people are doing well this does not happen. There needs to be a life style change and a true economy so people can be creative with the fruits of their labors. Now if you are going to counter point you need to list and teach me something. 

    • Chris Mounce

      We did try that once and it was the bloodiest disaster in US history.

      • Grooveboss

        civil war had other far reaching implications. we are a house divided now but the fighting goes on in the mental sphere, And with the civil war there was no absolute despot on the other side.

        • Chris Mounce

          So we split into Red & Blue America and make FOX and MSNBC’s wet dreams come true! Then there would be no internal conflict in the two Americas. Yeah right. It be like the Balkans social conservatives vs. fiscal conservatives, neo-cons vs. libertarians, paleo-conservatives vs Rockefeller Republicans and that’s just one half of the two Americas.

        • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

          if Robert .E. Lee was not a despot what are we going to believe?

  • Grooveboss

    The country obviously needs to be divided in two. 

  • Hadrian999

    why not, worked so well for india, pakastan, north and south vietnam

  • Hadrian999

    why not, worked so well for india, pakastan, north and south vietnam

  • Grooveboss

    might not work well but its better then trying genocide first

  • Hadrian999

    those aren’t the only choices

  • CaptainHoggy

    And how many families was that fucking asshole responsible for destroying? Not that anyone deserves to bury their children or have their grandchildren blown up by foreign bombs, but hey- if you are a military dictator, I believe its par for the course. He could have became a plumber instead if he didn’t want people trying to kill him. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rayne-Rassmussen/100000890438248 Rayne Rassmussen

      shit. I guess two wrongs DO make a right!

    • Voidthought

      You are so off on this. Why don’t you get angry that us, the USA for killing over 1 million civis in the Iraq War? Why don’t you name-call and use the same logic in the way the Israeli’s slaughtered the Palestinians in the late 80s? Why not cry out about how our corporations are indirectly killing people everyday from their actions? Your thinking reeks of so much hypocrisy that it is beyond belief that people still hold your mentality. No one wants people to die that is for sure. We have so much wisdom in the world, from so many people who have tried to give us insights into the human condition but no one seems to care. “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” – Ghandi

      • Sargon

        Talk about buying into propaganda. I can’t believe you just quoted a racist child molester like Ghandi. You’ve just proved that you have done very little research into anything you have to say.

        • Voidthought

          Wow, you are going to judge my thinking based on a quote which happens to be true regardless of WHO said it and WHAT they did??? Really? We must be buying different propaganda. The fact here is that you are in absolute certitude about who Gaddafi is and what he has done whereas I am simply observing the facts.
          You didn’t answer any of my questions. Are they irrelevant? What propaganda have I “bought”? Does quoting someone who may or may not have a botched personal history make the quote less true? Give me some FACTS man! I take criticism, so please, enlighten me to your reality? You have failed to explain yourself twice now….

          • IsoBan

            Okay, here’s a fact: go read.  Read about Qaddafi and the Islamic Legion, and their effects on the the region.  Read about how Qaddafi kicked out thousands of Palestinians out of Libya in the 90′s because for once Palestine and Israel were actually knocking around ideas for peace.  For crying out loud, just go and read some of the details of his response to protesters in the last few months.  Instead of assuming we’re all full of it because obviously anything the evil western world does is evil, how about you go actually learn something about the person your defending? 
               PS: The issue that’s always been neglected regarding the slaughter of ‘civilians’ in Iraq is that the enemy we’re engaging is not, in fact, an ‘army’, but a very loosely organized confederation of ‘civilians’ who occasionally arm themselves to the teeth, blow up buses full of people, and other such asymmetrical warfare. “Hey! You killed Ahmed!  He was just a civilian!”  “Why was he in a hut with 3 AK-47s, a box of ammunition and a soviet surplus radio transceiver??” “Oh he’s just a collector.”  “Was.”  PPS: I think there’s a bit of a difference in corporations, through mostly negligence and stupidity, inflicting harm through questionable chemicals in foodstuff, and ordering your army to put down protesting men, women, and children with a helicopter mounted 50cal machine gun.  Anyone who doesn’t see the dividing line there is as morally blind as McKinney.

          • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

            george orwell in his book 1984 (written in 1948) described a propaganda film that showed a boatload of refugees murdered in just such a manner….I figure it was not qadaffi, but someone just like him from oceania

          • IsoBan

            Oh that’s very convenient.  “I render your reasoning and evidence invalid because people can fake stuff.” Yes, people *can* fake things.  The question is do we have any reason whatsoever to believe Qaddafi didn’t brutally murder his own people for protesting?  Well, I suppose if you include “I refuse to believe anything you say’ a reason, then I suppose you do.  At this point, my relying on facts is probably irrelevant. Clearly, your mind is made up on the matter.  Its a bit like religion in that way: “I refuse to admit further evidence that might question my position.”

               So, good luck with that.

          • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

            i was really only saying that orwell, who had seen action in the spanish civil war, and worked for the government of the UK in ww2 as a propagandist foresaw that things were not about to change any time soon,and it seems he was right, we’ve learned nothing,i know for a fact he is a murderer, but just cannot believe anymore in this circle of violence the world is in. thankfully being in my 59th year i may not be around to witness much more of it, but my children will be, i cannot condone murder from any quarter

          • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

            i was really only saying that orwell, who had seen action in the spanish civil war, and worked for the government of the UK in ww2 as a propagandist foresaw that things were not about to change any time soon,and it seems he was right, we’ve learned nothing,i know for a fact he is a murderer, but just cannot believe anymore in this circle of violence the world is in. thankfully being in my 59th year i may not be around to witness much more of it, but my children will be, i cannot condone murder from any quarter

          • IsoBan

            Oh that’s very convenient.  “I render your reasoning and evidence invalid because people can fake stuff.” Yes, people *can* fake things.  The question is do we have any reason whatsoever to believe Qaddafi didn’t brutally murder his own people for protesting?  Well, I suppose if you include “I refuse to believe anything you say’ a reason, then I suppose you do.  At this point, my relying on facts is probably irrelevant. Clearly, your mind is made up on the matter.  Its a bit like religion in that way: “I refuse to admit further evidence that might question my position.”

               So, good luck with that.

          • Voidthought

            It’s all very relative friend. You don’t know the “truth” of it unless you have experienced it. That isn’t to say we can’t speculate on what has happened, but what we do not need is assassination attempts that disregard innocent life, just to “get the badguy”. So morals are on the table now… why aren’t we invading all the rest of the world for their moral crimes against humanity? In my view of reality there can be no selective caring for this war and not that one, the victims of this murderer and not that one. Our justice system is selective because otherwise the CEOs of the bailed out corporations would be behind bars for “playing” the system. The only reason we interact with the world is because of motives, ulterior and otherwise and this is not a healthy morality.

          • Voidthought

            It’s all very relative friend. You don’t know the “truth” of it unless you have experienced it. That isn’t to say we can’t speculate on what has happened, but what we do not need is assassination attempts that disregard innocent life, just to “get the badguy”. So morals are on the table now… why aren’t we invading all the rest of the world for their moral crimes against humanity? In my view of reality there can be no selective caring for this war and not that one, the victims of this murderer and not that one. Our justice system is selective because otherwise the CEOs of the bailed out corporations would be behind bars for “playing” the system. The only reason we interact with the world is because of motives, ulterior and otherwise and this is not a healthy morality.

    • Chris Mounce

      There is a difference between bombing Hitler in the Wolf’s Lair or bombing Hitler’s home in the Berlin suburbs. I don’t understand what’s so hard to grasp in one situation it’s a target with military imporatance and co-conspirators in the latter situation there is no military value and a high risk of innocent bystanders. I guess the lessons from the Captain is Qaddafi shouldn’t have turned over that nuclear material to the Bush administration because everything is fair game – civilians, women, children and hey how about the whole damn human race because if we can’t rule (faux democratic Washington or faux revolutionary Tripoli) then if everybody is much better off dead than in such a “imperfect” world.

      • ShakestheMighty

        Hey dummy. Hitler’s bunker, you know, the one that was bombed along with the rest of the town, was in the middle of Berlin. Once again, read a book people. Know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth. It saves you looking stupid

        • Chris Mounce

          The Wolf’s Lair was in Rastenburg in eastern Prussia (now Ketrzyn, Poland) and besides being a bunker was an Eastern Front HQ for the German Army which is different from the multiple homes Adolf owned in Berlin. Maybe you should learn your history.

          • ShakestheMighty

            Dummy. Where did Hitler die? Hmmm? In Berlin. In a bunker. Maybe you should stop making yourself look silly.

          • Chris Mounce

            He shot himself in a different bunker under a government building in Berlin. He didn’t die in a US bombing. It would be legitimate to bomb him at a military facility than say Oktoberfest. OK or you just a Troll?

        • Chris Mounce

          It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool then to open one’s mouth and known to be a fool. I love how those with a quick response and who set out to denigrate others end up looking foolish.

          • Ostrander Wally

            AWSOME!

  • CaptainHoggy

    And how many families was that fucking asshole responsible for destroying? Not that anyone deserves to bury their children or have their grandchildren blown up by foreign bombs, but hey- if you are a military dictator, I believe its par for the course. He could have became a plumber instead if he didn’t want people trying to kill him. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rayne-Rassmussen/100000890438248 Rayne Rassmussen

    shit. I guess two wrongs DO make a right!

  • IsoBan

    This is the first comment I’ve ever felt like sharing on Disinfo.  In this article, McKinney reveals herself to be heartbreakingly ignorant of the realities of the world.  Qaddafi, she says, was in fact at the residence.  Is she simpleminded enough to believe that the presence of the children there wasn’t for the obvious protective value Qaddafi knows they would have?  He wasn’t at the residence with them, McKinney, because he was trying to be a family man; He was there because he knew NATO is less likely to strike when children might be caught in the crossfire.  The house is a crime scene?  What about the rest of that nation?  Where do you stand on how Qaddafi treats the children in his own country?  If you truly believe that there is no difference between the wanton disregard for children Qaddafi’s own rule has demonstrated and the unfortunate collateral deaths of an attempted surgical strike, then you are morally blind.  

    • Hadrian999

      we are only responcible for our own actions not those taken by others. lets see what people are saying in 20 years when these people we claim to behelping are the next taliban

      • jackedu317

        but by then, we’ll be dead, and history will be edited to show whatever they want us to see…

    • Voidthought

      How can you speculate that Gaddafi “knows” the “obvious protective value” of the presence of the children would have? I love how our media creates these villians of “our freedoms”(Bush impression) and most every follows along to assume that what the media says is the truth about these people when we are worlds apart. All these comments automatically condemning Gaddafi are nothing more than conditioned responses to “the villian in the room.” I suggest reserving judgement until you understand the “truth” about the matter. Feelings are not truths…

      • IsoBan

        Do you actually know anything *about* Qaddafi?  I feel as though the default position commenters seem to have is that anyone the U.S. has issue with is actually a swell guy because everyone and everything the U.S. does or says is obviously evil.  Its not ‘speculation’ that NATO, and most especially the U.S., does not, in fact target children.  While I have grave issues with our government, the political parties, the congress, etc as being spoiled narcissists with god complexes, by and large people in uniform are not (despite the ‘fight the evil war machine’ crap that’s all the rage these days) actually ‘babykillers’ and anyone who believes this is so has been sucked up by a different kind of propaganda. This isn’t a ‘conditioned response to the villain in the room’, this is a rational response to an airhead like McKinney defending someone who has displayed far less regard for human life than she does. 

        • Voidthought

          So targeting a house in the suburbs with children and family members is an ok thing to do, so long as you get the target?? Do you think if they actually killed Gaddafi that this would be a story? The reason I said conditioned responses is because everyone hears that he has killed his own people and committed “atrocities” and they jump on the hatred bandwagon without any other consideration. The hypocrisy of the condemnation is appalling in that it automatically creates a safe zone for one person to say, “THAT, is evil and we must stop it.” Meanwhile people are starving to death, murders, rapes, etc and we make more bombs…. do you see the vicious irrational cycle I’m trying to convey? There are “boogeymen” that our government creates to rally popular support for a war, or whatever other motivations, that we clearly don’t want. Why the fuck are we even over there? They didn’t mess with us… Yet we SELECTIVELY decide to impose our morality upon these people and not those………………..

        • Chris Mounce

          I just think anybody who doesn’t know surgical strikes are an oxymoron hasn’t dealt with explosives. A sniper shot to the head would be more effective and have less chance off hurting civilians. And if children and grandchildren of heads of state are now to be legitimate military targets lets imagine the shoe on the other foot. What if an Arab country bombed Chicago or London to kill Obama or Cameron and “only” killed their families? It what be a media/miltary jingoistic circle jerk to bring about an orgy of mass destruction on the suspected villian. Qaddafi came to power for a reason. The corrupt Lybian monarchy backed by the west looted and lived in opulence while their people were starved and abused. If we the US or UK kill Qadaffi there are two likely results his son or a close cohort seizes power. Or the rebels takes advantage of the power vacuum and instal a new leader who will mostly become corrupt with power. Both options take us back to square one over a mound of corpses. But if the Libyan rebels do this themselves maybe they can forge a different path to a more free and open society that is neither an antagonist or puppet of our interests and actually represents the Libyan people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

      what protective value? ffs

      • IsoBan

        The protective value they hold against targeted strikes from western countries..  Unless you think no crazy dictators ever used human shields consisting of their own family.  Of course, I’m sure Qaddafi isn’t a crazy dictator.  I’m sure he’s a swell guy who’s just been misunderstood. Or something like that.  I’m weird in that, if i were fighting a war in which half my country were trying to kill me, the first thing I would do is get my family well out of harm’s way and as far away from myself as possible knowing that somebody’s probably going to try to blow me up every week.  I’m sure he kept them all close because he’s just a great grandpappy. ffs.

        • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

          the nato plan specifically said it was not about “regime change” or murdering Qaddafi, so basically he was obviously stupid enough to believe them, but in the circumstances where would the guys children have been safe? where could he have sent them? to the US? UK? buried them in a bunker somewhere? get fucking real

          • jackedu317

            the Bin Ladens were safe in the US… why not the Gaddafis?

        • Chris Mounce

          I’m sure he kept them close because that’s the same thing any powerful including Obama would do. Children and close relatives of powerful people are in danger because their relative by the mere fact of holding power has rival foreign & domestic as well the many nutballs out there who would hurt them to get to the real target or the could get caught in the crossfire. Targeting people based on proximatey isn’t a morally justifiable position. But I guess in your world family members of world leaders should shun and seperate themselves from these new pariahs just in case a bomb or bullet might hit to close too home. 

  • IsoBan

    This is the first comment I’ve ever felt like sharing on Disinfo.  In this article, McKinney reveals herself to be heartbreakingly ignorant of the realities of the world.  Qaddafi, she says, was in fact at the residence.  Is she simpleminded enough to believe that the presence of the children there wasn’t for the obvious protective value Qaddafi knows they would have?  He wasn’t at the residence with them, McKinney, because he was trying to be a family man; He was there because he knew NATO is less likely to strike when children might be caught in the crossfire.  The house is a crime scene?  What about the rest of that nation?  Where do you stand on how Qaddafi treats the children in his own country?  If you truly believe that there is no difference between the wanton disregard for children Qaddafi’s own rule has demonstrated and the unfortunate collateral deaths of an attempted surgical strike, then you are morally blind.  

  • ShakestheMighty

    And speaking of propaganda. Holy crap! This reads like something Jane Fonda would have writted during the Vietnam War. I’m not saying that it was anything but deplorable to bomb his family, but the guy is a psychopath and a monster who bombs his own people. Do we, NATO countries, have any reason to be over there? Probably not. They have oil though, and we’re going to make a grab for it. Would the people of Lybia have shown his family any more mercy? Probably not. What very important to note, though, is that what NATO did in killing Gadhafi’s family, he did over, and over and over again, all throughout his own country. Two wrongs don’t make a right? You’re right. They don’t. But when you have to commit one wrong to correct a thousand others, you do it. This letter was nothing more than a piece of agitprop to get McKinney some votes from disillusioned Americans. Don’t think for a moment that it was anything else. Comparing the US to Nazi Germany just makes me think that you idiots need to open a book and do some serious learning. It might be bad, but when was the last time you saw a group of your friends rounded up and burned in ovens. As someone whose grandparents were killed in Spandau, I pity you. You are ignorant. And McKinney should be ashamed of herself for her ignorance as well.

    • Voidthought

      Yeah, Libya had the highest standard of living in the African Continent, until it became a war zone by foreign invaders. How do you suppose that he was just killing people for whatever? He was surely bombing people left and right… oh that’s right those people he bombed had guns. This post is ignorant in the fact that you suppose that you actually know what has been happening there. Please, I would love to have some FACTS, not mainstream-media propaganda journalism.

      “Two wrongs don’t make a right? You’re right. They don’t. But when you have to commit one wrong to correct a thousand others, you do it.” – And the cycle just keeps on a-rollin’!!!

      “Don’t think for a moment that it was anything else.” – Wow, might as well just pack your bags up folks because ShakestheMighty has figured it out for us…. Here is a brilliant quote and Life Lesson that you should consider: “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” – R.A.W.

      • ShakestheMighty

        You need to get off the Internet and read some journals and history books. Seriously.

      • ShakestheMighty

        Void, don’t believe everything you read on the Internet. Go get a library card, read some history journals. Never trust a man who uses quotations to prove a point. It shows he never does his own thinking and is incapable of independent thought. What you say can be found on any forum. It’s like arguing with Larry the Cable Guy but on the other end of the spectrum. Do your own thinking.

        • Voidthought

          So here again you have not proven anything or disputed anything other than spouting off something you’ve read about people using quotations to further their point.

        • Voidthought

          What am I believing here? You know reading books doesn’t necessarily mean that you have knowledge of history. There are plenty of books out there that are full of misinformation, so I don’t know how you can just say “go read some books”. History is written by the winners… remember that quote? Where have you read that quoting people is a sign that that person is unoriginal… that is so hilarious that someone would actually integrate that into their own belief structure about others. That is the same as telling someone to go read books and think for themselves but you are actually telling them to read books to think like the person that has written the book about their interpretation of history, because History IS ALL interpretation.

          • ShakestheMighty

            I didn’t read that. I came up with it all myself. Here’s the question: Are you a Lybian? Have you ever been to Lybia? The people who live there seem to have a problem with the guy. Period. History is ALL interpretation, that’s true. Where did you read that? You accuse me of attacking you and not your position – from what I see, you have none, other than attacking NATO (of whom I am not a fan. Let`s get that straight) and talking about “Foreign Invaders.” You came on here attacking other people with no real position of your own, spouting unoriginal ideas that you’d read somewhere and passing them off as your own. I’m done. Have the last word. But I’ll leave you with this: If Gadhaffi was a great guy, why did everyone in the foreign service of Lybia abandon him? Why did a large portion of his military turn on him, and force him to use mercenaries to attack doctors, labourers and teachers that rose up against him? Go talk to someone at the Lybian embassy – they’ll tell you to get out of your basement, stop believing the crap you read on forums and go get your GED and make something of yourself, if they don’t punch you in the face for taking Gadhafi’s side, first.

    • jackedu317

      the US is the new NAZI… it’s pretty obvious and undeniable. how many illegal wars are we in? how many poor civilians are we killing? just because we don’t put them in ovens (yet) doesn’t make the comparison invalid.

    • jackedu317

      the US is the new NAZI… it’s pretty obvious and undeniable. how many illegal wars are we in? how many poor civilians are we killing? just because we don’t put them in ovens (yet) doesn’t make the comparison invalid.

      • IsoBan

        Please read a book, for pity’s sake. That’s the most depressingly wrong thing I’ve read in months.  And this is the internet, so that’s really saying something.  Preferably history.  Please, I’ll mail you some, just read books.

        • jackedu317

          i’ve read plenty of books, thank you. there are just too many parallels between the US today, Germany in the late 30s, and Rome the last years before their collapse. we’re conquering nations 1 by 1, then enslaving them in debt. we’ve been bombing about one country every year throughout my entire life. at the same time it’s been drilled into everyone’s head that WE are always right, that We have to spread “democracy” (by force if necessary), that WE have to fight injustice around the world. it’s simply not true…   we are the unjust, or at least our government is. and just like always, the real winners will be the bankers who funded both sides of the conflict, who give the loans to countries knowing full well they will never be able to pay it back.

          • FD8517

            Rome was conquering other people right from its inception, not just the last few years before its demise. Conquering others was the source of their power. If it weren’t for conquests then they would have just remained a little town of no significance. As for Germany in the 30s, their only aim was to take back German land. Violently or peacefully, but starting wars wasn’t their objective. It is quite different to the US of today whose economy is built on war. So perhaps the comparison to Rome is justified, but not Nazi Germany.

        • Robinaali

          IsoBan. Why don’t you log off right now and get yourself a nice little history book and read it until you can say something more original than ‘read’ a history book. Infact why don’t you read a very simple history of Libya written by the propagandist arm of the UK the BBC for instance. It may give you a little insight to who owned Libya and who is fighting for it now. Also it may give you insight into how to conduct a bloodless revolution. Or maybe a bloodless one is not the ‘genuine’ article’ and NATO is in for supporting a very bloody one – what with all those bombs to sell and lovely opportunities for product placement. The Libyans can surely afford them. May be you could read that in your ‘books’.

    • Robinaali

      Yes no ego problems here. We all know ‘The Libyan people’ don’t we? Those brown (jee your joking there black Libyans too) all want what we have ‘freedom’ and ‘human rights’ RIGHT. My 10 year old daughter: If the Libyan people want this then why is it so hard convincing so many of them. I mean you have to bomb and bomb, cut of the water, electricity, food and oil and surround it with a massive arsenal of weaponry that you just stumbled across while you were ‘Arab Springin it’. And you have to do this town after town. These pesky Libyans – (sorry Loyalists, anti NATO, anti Freedom, anti imperialists but definately not civilians and certainly not humans) don’t want it. Do they not know how ‘evil’ he was? Everyone who doesn’t know him – knows he is.

      Funny isn’t it all those Libyans with Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds even bloody Geordie accents and not to be mistaken the Libyan with the Southern Slang of Texas there to ‘liberate’ Libya.

      The Guy is so EVIL he is responsible for NATO and REBEL crimes not to mention the deaths of his own children and their children. Pity his government ministers (like the Justice Minister and that minister who imprisoned those nurses for infecting Libyan children with Aids) at the time bear no responsibility but his children mainly living and studying in Europe at the time are dead men standing. Well as long as Gold and Oil make sense thats all that matters.

  • ShakestheMighty

    And speaking of propaganda. Holy crap! This reads like something Jane Fonda would have writted during the Vietnam War. I’m not saying that it was anything but deplorable to bomb his family, but the guy is a psychopath and a monster who bombs his own people. Do we, NATO countries, have any reason to be over there? Probably not. They have oil though, and we’re going to make a grab for it. Would the people of Lybia have shown his family any more mercy? Probably not. What very important to note, though, is that what NATO did in killing Gadhafi’s family, he did over, and over and over again, all throughout his own country. Two wrongs don’t make a right? You’re right. They don’t. But when you have to commit one wrong to correct a thousand others, you do it. This letter was nothing more than a piece of agitprop to get McKinney some votes from disillusioned Americans. Don’t think for a moment that it was anything else. Comparing the US to Nazi Germany just makes me think that you idiots need to open a book and do some serious learning. It might be bad, but when was the last time you saw a group of your friends rounded up and burned in ovens. As someone whose grandparents were killed in Spandau, I pity you. You are ignorant. And McKinney should be ashamed of herself for her ignorance as well.

  • erikgrad

    I wonder how much the writer’s family has been paid off by the Libyans for this article?  Qaddafi is the one who has defied the world’s demands, warning him that he must stop the indiscriminate attacks on rebels that were taking the lives of many more innocents than rebels.  His response was callous and threatening to those in his country that don’t even want a part in this conflict.  Many warning shots were literally fired at him, along with several diplomatic offers for resolution.  Yet he stood up against it, at the cost of his family’s life.  He brought this into his own house, and NATO is not responsible for the deaths of his son and grandchildren.

    • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

      oil, oil, fucking oil…dont you get it?

      • jackedu317

        actually most people are unaware that the middle east has the largest underground fresh water aquifers in the world. it’s not for oil. it’s for water…

        • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

          actually i am aware of the aquifiers, but for the reality of what is happening in the mid-east right now, read “the seven pillars of wisdom” by T.H. Lawrence (of arabia) no change there then

          • jackedu317

            ok, think about this. T.H.L. was a British officer sent to the middle east to assist in a revolution. how is that any different from what is going on today? divide and conquer… divide and conquer…

      • IsoBan

        Yes, at lot of it is, in fact, oil.  There, you go. The truth comes out.  The reality is that civilization runs on oil, and currently a good amount of that oil is locked up in a part of the world which is controlled by fabulously wealthy potentates ruling over angry poverty stricken people who, having no help from their own selfish, spoiled, despotic leaders, turn to the bloodthirsty moralities of 2000 year old myths and are willing to kill as many people as possible to bring the light of their religion to the world.  And these poor people are living within a stone’s throw of a substance without which a world of nearly 7 billion would starve or wither in disease as they become effectively immobile.  

          If we discontinue using oil tomorrow, hundreds of millions would die in very short order.  There are no replacement sources of energy or synthetics that would be adapted and integrated into our existing infrastructure fast enough to stave off massive social upheaval as basic services would screech to a halt.  This is not opinion, this is mathematics.  The alternative energy system that are being developed, while a noble goal, are simply not developing fast enough to meet the demands of expanding civilization, and *no* alternative can match the energy potential, relative safety, and engineering-friendly qualities of petroleum.  Please don’t take my word for this, go and research for yourself.  

          Feel better?  Its mostly oil.  Oil, and the fact that Qaddafi ( just like Saddam Hussein, like Hosni Mubarak and any number of other spoiled brats in fancy uniforms sitting in splendor while their people die in tattered rags) is in fact one of the kinds of monster who would gleefully use their one trump card…oil…as a shield and a hammer to get away with anything he wants.  

          Your moral superiority is now secure.

        • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

          hardly, morally secure? i was in iraq in ’79-80 and met a lot of good people, saw about as much poverty that exists in any average big city in the UK, and the point is that although alternatives to oil are not readily available (i worked in the petroleum industry) we are not trying to develop the ones that are really possible, we are too busy just guzzling it, ” i’m alright jack the future generation can just go fuck off and die”

      • IsoBan

        Yes, at lot of it is, in fact, oil.  There, you go. The truth comes out.  The reality is that civilization runs on oil, and currently a good amount of that oil is locked up in a part of the world which is controlled by fabulously wealthy potentates ruling over angry poverty stricken people who, having no help from their own selfish, spoiled, despotic leaders, turn to the bloodthirsty moralities of 2000 year old myths and are willing to kill as many people as possible to bring the light of their religion to the world.  And these poor people are living within a stone’s throw of a substance without which a world of nearly 7 billion would starve or wither in disease as they become effectively immobile.  

          If we discontinue using oil tomorrow, hundreds of millions would die in very short order.  There are no replacement sources of energy or synthetics that would be adapted and integrated into our existing infrastructure fast enough to stave off massive social upheaval as basic services would screech to a halt.  This is not opinion, this is mathematics.  The alternative energy system that are being developed, while a noble goal, are simply not developing fast enough to meet the demands of expanding civilization, and *no* alternative can match the energy potential, relative safety, and engineering-friendly qualities of petroleum.  Please don’t take my word for this, go and research for yourself.  

          Feel better?  Its mostly oil.  Oil, and the fact that Qaddafi ( just like Saddam Hussein, like Hosni Mubarak and any number of other spoiled brats in fancy uniforms sitting in splendor while their people die in tattered rags) is in fact one of the kinds of monster who would gleefully use their one trump card…oil…as a shield and a hammer to get away with anything he wants.  

          Your moral superiority is now secure.

      • jackedu317

        then why aren’t we bombing Canada?

  • Anonymous

    I wonder how much the writer’s family has been paid off by the Libyans for this article?  Qaddafi is the one who has defied the world’s demands, warning him that he must stop the indiscriminate attacks on rebels that were taking the lives of many more innocents than rebels.  His response was callous and threatening to those in his country that don’t even want a part in this conflict.  Many warning shots were literally fired at him, along with several diplomatic offers for resolution.  Yet he stood up against it, at the cost of his family’s life.  He brought this into his own house, and NATO is not responsible for the deaths of his son and grandchildren.

  • Hadrian999

    we are only responcible for our own actions not those taken by others. lets see what people are saying in 20 years when these people we claim to behelping are the next taliban

  • Voidthought

    You are so off on this. Why don’t you get angry that us, the USA for killing over 1 million civis in the Iraq War? Why don’t you name-call and use the same logic in the way the Israeli’s slaughtered the Palestinians in the late 80s? Why not cry out about how our corporations are indirectly killing people everyday from their actions? Your thinking reeks of so much hypocrisy that it is beyond belief that people still hold your mentality. No one wants people to die that is for sure. We have so much wisdom in the world, from so many people who have tried to give us insights into the human condition but no one seems to care. “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” – Ghandi

  • Chris Mounce

    There is a difference between bombing Hitler in the Wolf’s Lair or bombing Hitler in the Berlin suburbs. I don’t understand what’s so hard to grasp in one situation it’s a target with military imporatance and co-conspirators in the latter situation there is no military value and a high risk of innocent bystanders. I guess the lessons from the Captain is Qaddafi shouldn’t have turned over that nuclear material to the Bush administration because everything is fair game – civilians, women, children and hey how about the whole damn human race because if we can’t rule (faux democratic Washington or faux revolutionary Tripoli) then if everybody is much better off dead than in such a “imperfect” world.

  • Chris Mounce

    We did try that once and it was the bloodiest disaster in US history.

  • Voidthought

    Yeah, Libya had the highest standard of living in the African Continent, until it became a war zone by foreign invaders. How do you suppose that he was just killing people for whatever? He was surely bombing people left and right… oh that’s right those people he bombed had guns. This post is ignorant in the fact that you suppose that you actually know what has been happening there. Please, I would love to have some FACTS, not mainstream-media propaganda journalism.

    “Two wrongs don’t make a right? You’re right. They don’t. But when you have to commit one wrong to correct a thousand others, you do it.” – And the cycle just keeps on a-rollin’!!!

    “Don’t think for a moment that it was anything else.” – Wow, might as well just pack your bags up folks because ShakestheMighty has figured it out for us…. Here is a brilliant quote and Life Lesson that you should consider: “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” – R.A.W.

  • Voidthought

    How can you speculate that Gaddafi “knows” the “obvious protective value” of the presence of the children would have? I love how our media creates these villians of “our freedoms”(Bush impression) and most every follows along to assume that what the media says is the truth about these people when we are worlds apart. All these comments automatically condemning Gaddafi are nothing more than conditioned responses to “the villian in the room.” I suggest reserving judgement until you understand the “truth” about the matter. Feelings are not truths…

  • Sargon

    Talk about buying into propaganda. I can’t believe you just quoted a racist child molester like Ghandi. You’ve just proved that you have done very little research into anything you have to say.

  • Sargon

    Talk about buying into propaganda. I can’t believe you just quoted a racist child molester like Ghandi. You’ve just proved that you have done very little research into anything you have to say.

  • Grooveboss

    umm according to what i see it seems to be. Or he steps down, but it seems he is not about to do that anytime soon.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    i assume the “hoggy” stands for the fucking pig you most patently are

  • Grooveboss

    civil war had other far reaching implications. we are a house divided now but the fighting goes on in the mental sphere, And with the civil war there was no absolute despot on the other side.

  • ShakestheMighty

    You need to get off the Internet and read some journals and history books. Seriously.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    what protective value? ffs

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    oil, oil, fucking oil…dont you get it?

  • jackedu317

    anytime a country has a civil war, you can pretty much guarantee the CIA is involved. Gaddafi bowed down to the UN for years, but now suddenly they want him out. why? because he killed his own people? that’s never been an excuse for us before. actually the US seems to prefer that dictators kill their own. that way it’s easier to invade and take their resources.

  • jackedu317

    anytime a country has a civil war, you can pretty much guarantee the CIA is involved. Gaddafi bowed down to the UN for years, but now suddenly they want him out. why? because he killed his own people? that’s never been an excuse for us before. actually the US seems to prefer that dictators kill their own. that way it’s easier to invade and take their resources.

  • ShakestheMighty

    Void, don’t believe everything you read on the Internet. Go get a library card, read some history journals. Never trust a man who uses quotations to prove a point. It shows he never does his own thinking and is incapable of independent thought. What you say can be found on any forum. It’s like arguing with Larry the Cable Guy but on the other end of the spectrum. Do your own thinking.

  • jackedu317

    actually most people are unaware that the middle east has the largest underground fresh water aquifers in the world. it’s not for oil. it’s for water…

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    the whole thing is about oil, and you americans know it, complacency and comfort are your watchwords, yes he was a dictator, but no more than obama and his puppetmasters, dealing in death was always a leaders last resort, any country, any time, murder is murder, plain and simple you cowards

    • Chris Mounce

      We, the USA, have been in strange situation since the collapse of the USSR in 91 and accelerated since 9-11 that or actions at home and abroad and our rhetoric of freedom, self-determination, independence and rule of law don’t match in reality. When I was a kid my grandfather said he fought the Reds because people dissapeared into secret prisons, people had to carry papers to travel, their government didn’t respect their people’s wishes, etc. Thank God he didn’t live to see any of this. All I’m saying is it used to be we wear the good guys, bad things happened sometimes but we would try to address them but it’s becoming less and less like that every day we put on the blinders and accept the abnormal as normal.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

        the trouble with the collapse of the USSR was most americans saw it as a victory and bought into the significance of the CIA in bringing that about when it was no such thing, the bogey man had to go somewhere and he went back home to finish what he had started in South America, Russia, Africa, south-east asia, happy birthday bob, they brought it all back home

    • jackedu317

      most of the US’s oil comes from Canada, not the middle east. if it was for oil, they wouldn’t be building a pipeline straight to India, China, and Russia. how could that possibly help us?

      • Chris Mounce

        As someone who has worked for the energy industry who consumes the final product matters the least those who control the supply and the distribution (pipelines & engines to pump it) is where the money and power is at. Who cares under what rock or sand dune that God has had the misfortune of placing in the hands of barbarians – when American & European engines and pipes are carrying that precious crude oil & natural gas to hungry customers around the globe. Remember the Red Chinese’s gold reserves are just as shiny as everybody else’s. And if the US controls distribution of this vital resource they would be pushing to hard to make us payoff our massive debt.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    the whole thing is about oil, and you americans know it, complacency and comfort are your watchwords, yes he was a dictator, but no more than obama and his puppetmasters, dealing in death was always a leaders last resort, any country, any time, murder is murder, plain and simple you cowards

  • ShakestheMighty

    classy

  • Hadrian999

    it in not our responcibility to adminster the world, there is no requirement that we take any action with respect to Libya.

  • ShakestheMighty

    Hey dummy. Hitler’s bunker, you know, the one that was bombed along with the rest of the town, was in the middle of Berlin. Once again, read a book people. Know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth. It saves you looking stupid

  • jackedu317

    the US is the new NAZI… it’s pretty obvious and undeniable. how many illegal wars are we in? how many poor civilians are we killing? just because we don’t put them in ovens (yet) doesn’t make the comparison invalid.

  • jackedu317

    but by then, we’ll be dead, and history will be edited to show whatever they want us to see…

  • Grooveboss

    all in all if the people are doing well this does not happen. There needs to be a life style change and a true economy so people can be creative with the fruits of their labors. Now if you are going to counter point you need to list and teach me something. 

  • Voidthought

    Wow, you are going to judge my thinking based on a quote which happens to be true regardless of WHO said it and WHAT they did??? Really? We must be buying different propaganda. The fact here is that you are in absolute certitude about who Gaddafi is and what he has done whereas I am simply observing the facts.
    You didn’t answer any of my questions. Are they irrelevant? What propaganda have I “bought”? Does quoting someone who may or may not have a botched personal history make the quote less true? Give me some FACTS man! I take criticism, so please, enlighten me to your reality? You have failed to explain yourself twice now….

  • Voidthought

    So here again you have not proven anything or disputed anything other than spouting off something you’ve read about people using quotations to further their point.

  • jackedu317

    any country that refuses to take LOANS from the IMF gets bombed into submission, OR they get hit by “natural” disaster… strange isn’t it?!…

  • jackedu317

    any country that refuses to take LOANS from the IMF gets bombed into submission, OR they get hit by “natural” disaster… strange isn’t it?!…

  • Voidthought

    What am I believing here? You know reading books doesn’t necessarily mean that you have knowledge of history. There are plenty of books out there that are full of misinformation, so I don’t know how you can just say “go read some books”. History is written by the winners… remember that quote? Where have you read that quoting people is a sign that that person is unoriginal… that is so hilarious that someone would actually integrate that into their own belief structure about others. That is the same as telling someone to go read books and think for themselves but you are actually telling them to read books to think like the person that has written the book about their interpretation of history, because History IS ALL interpretation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    actually i am aware of the aquifiers, but for the reality of what is happening in the mid-east right now, read “the seven pillars of wisdom” by T.H. Lawrence (of arabia) no change there then

  • ShakestheMighty

    I didn’t read that. I came up with it all myself. Here’s the question: Are you a Lybian? Have you ever been to Lybia? The people who live there seem to have a problem with the guy. Period. History is ALL interpretation, that’s true. Where did you read that? You accuse me of attacking you and not your position – from what I see, you have none, other than attacking NATO (of whom I am not a fan. Let`s get that straight) and talking about “Foreign Invaders.” You came on here attacking other people with no real position of your own, spouting unoriginal ideas that you’d read somewhere and passing them off as your own. I’m done. Have the last word. But I’ll leave you with this: If Gadhaffi was a great guy, why did everyone in the foreign service of Lybia abandon him? Why did a large portion of his military turn on him, and force him to use mercenaries to attack doctors, labourers and teachers that rose up against him? Go talk to someone at the Lybian embassy – they’ll tell you to get out of your basement, stop believing the crap you read on forums and go get your GED and make something of yourself, if they don’t punch you in the face for taking Gadhafi’s side, first.

  • Chris Mounce

    The Wolf’s Lair was in Rastenburg in eastern Prussia (now Ketrzyn, Poland) and besides being a bunker was an Eastern Front HQ for the German Army which is different from the multiple homes Adolf owned in Berlin. Maybe you should learn your history dummy. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    come you, masters of war, you that build the big guns, you that build the death planes, you that build all the bombs, you that hide behind walls, you that hide behind desks….i just want you to know i can see through your masks….happy 70th bob!

  • Chris Mounce

    So we split into Red & Blue America and make FOX and MSNBC’s wet dreams come true! Then there would be no internal conflict in the two Americas. Yeah right. It be like the Balkans social conservatives vs. fiscal conservatives, neo-cons vs. libertarians, paleo-conservatives vs Rockefeller Republicans…

  • Chris Mounce

    It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool then to open one’s mouth and known to be a fool. I love how those with a quick response and who set out to denigrate others end up looking foolish.

  • Chris Mounce

    We, the USA, have been in strange situation since the collapse of the USSR in 91 and accelerated since 9-11 that or actions at home and abroad and our rhetoric of freedom, self-determination, independence and rule of law don’t match in reality. When I was a kid my grandfather said he fought the Reds because people dissapeared into secret prisons, people had to carry papers to travel, their government didn’t respect their people’s wishes, etc. Thank God he didn’t live to see any of this. All I’m saying is it used to be we wear the good guys, bad things happened sometimes but we would try to address them but it’s becoming less and less like that every day we put on the blinders and accept the abnormal as normal.  

  • ShakestheMighty

    Dummy. Where did Hitler die? Hmmm? In Berlin. In a bunker. Maybe you should stop making yourself look silly.

  • Chris Mounce

    He shot himself in a different bunker under a government building in Berlin. He didn’t die in a US bombing. It would be legitimate to bomb him at a military facility than say Oktoberfest. OK or you just a Troll?

  • DrDavidKelly

    The man was a monster but what about NATO’s atrocities, what about the US, what about Libya’s defense forces, what about the rebels … The debate goes on and then the name calling starts, then the experts begin to testify with their superior information. The point is that killing people is wrong no matter what side of the fence you are on – but here’s the problem Not everyone agrees with this and here is the very essence of our disagreements. Violence begets violence – it must stop.

  • David Kelly

    The man was a monster but what about NATO’s atrocities, what about the US, what about Libya’s defense forces, what about the rebels … The debate goes on and then the name calling starts, then the experts begin to testify with their superior information. The point is that killing people is wrong no matter what side of the fence you are on – but here’s the problem Not everyone agrees with this and here is the very essence of our disagreements. Violence begets violence – it must stop.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    America’s admitted douchebaggery on the world stage does NOT equal some kind of weird carte blanche that renders all of the world’s other dysfunctional dictatorships innocent. If anyone expects pity for people whose role on the world stage has been maintained by brutality, secret police and random executions…find another purpose in life…because this one isn’t working well.

    Yes…the US sucks…I and no small number of others bitch about it daily and keep feebly trying to vote and sway the votes of others in a vain attempt to alleviate some of that suckingness. True…it hasn’t helped much so far…but its something.

    But our own issues aside…Gaddafi is a murderous, militant thug and whatever becomes of him…or the loved ones he endangered by choosing a life as a brutal dictator…is on his head. I’ll save my tears for the dead protesters and Libyan patriots that wanted a self chosen leadership accountable to the people…and died in silence…unmourned by the soppy c*ntrags that weep for Gaddafi’s babies. F*ck him…and f*ck anyone whose busy with a mouthful of his dick because they’re blinded by their helpless rage at the US’s problems. Spend that energy fixing this country!!! 

    • Chris Mounce

      I just think its an ironic the way the US handles a friendly dictactor like Mubarak in Egypt or a hostile dictator in Libya. No one or at least not me is arguing because the US acts drunken giant stomping around the world it does no good or that by opposing the US those in opposition are clad in halos and wrapped in noble intentions. It would be better for us and Libya if it was Libyans hang Qaddafi by a meat hook than dying in a US bombing raid. Just as it would have been better in the long run if those tear gas grenades & rifles pointed at Egyptian protestors weren’t stamped Made in the USA.

    • Patrick Naulty

      can’t agree with the babies comment, but its nice to hear a rational  voice amongst all this shit, dictators certainly ask for everything they eventually will get, but america is fucked up with power/money hungry dealers, this is endemic and perpetuated by the so-called educational system, same here in the UK of course, this has to change before anything else can be done, stop enforced public education and replace it with a willingness to pass on a way of life not based on greed, we really could do it 

    • GoodDoktorBad

      Comparing protestors and patriots who chose their roles to the murder of children who just happened to get in the way is no comparison at all and just plain sick. So, on that issue I have to say fuck you Vox.
      Thats some nasty shit to say man.
      I would think you might find a better way to channel your anger than kicking dead bodies.
      Take a soppy cuntrag and wipe the shit of your mouth.

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        If that were from someone I respected less than you…I would take that more personally.  I’m not sorry and don’t change my position on the overall subject…Gaddafi is a brutal thug and the chaos his people suffer is not solely the fault of the US…period. Supporting him is wildly, grotesquely, insanely wrong…but…

        …with respect to your having been offended…I’ll say this: I could have phrased some of that in a more kindly fashion. It was crude and vicious…and largely meant to be a slap to the face of the people who suddenly find tears when an American bomb kills…but can’t find the heart to care about thousands of victims of political silencing and false arrest, torture and murder…when someone else does it.

        The difference with me is that I hate it all. I hate it when the US does it, when Iran does it, when the UK does it…there are no free passes…and nobody gets special treatment. What sickens me most is seeing leftists…who damned well ought to be smarter than a fox viewer…blindly siding with scum…just to share their anger at the US. Rage against bad US policy = yay!. Lending support to a mass murderous maniac = booo!

        • GoodDoktorBad

          I hate it all too. But I offer kudos to Cynthia McKinney for drawing attention to what is being done in our names as “Americans”…although I’m not even sure what that nationalist designation means anymore. Its apparent meaning resides obscured under a fog of war. It’s hard to breath in here, so all the angry, compulsive, convulsive thrashing about is to be expected of anyone who hasn’t completly succumbed to its noxious miasma.
          It’s times like these that force us to become who we really are. Sorry, I can’t let callous “dead baby” statements like yours pass unapposed. That’s me -I generally know what I stand for. I think that you do too.
          I too have respect for your online legacy…and of course I too have let loose a few farts in my writings here.

          Hopefully our days as poop flinging monkeys are behing us and we pack a bag and leave monkey island for greener pastures. 

          PEACE

    • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

      The US doesn’t suck, the uneducated citizenry who only have time to scrape up some money to get by for a day or two, its kind of hard to educate yourself when you have to survive.  The only ones who seem to have the time to see through the web of lies and deceit are the youth of those who have enough time and/or money.  Either you are too involved with work, or trying to get work, or just trying to survive.  Those with the time find the truth, unfortunately the way society is setup that isn’t many….  Plus with the flooding of immigrants (people who need to get settled and structured lifestyle before able to start looking beyond the family, ect) they can keep the majority completely occupied, completely dependent, completely unaware, and thats why they can be douches and get away with it, and thats why we all get “caught up” in the worlds hate towards Americans.

    • Robinaali

      Yes indeed ‘VoxMagi’ you are right. Those children deserved to be fried and cooked what with Ghaddafi’s possible massacre of all those well armed and funded ‘patriots’ who begged and pleaded for their former colonial masters to bomb and kill their fellow Libyans. How brave these ‘rebels’ are who had to be persuaded with ‘pertodollars’ to rise up the ‘Arab Spring’ is here and despite NATO humane ‘protecting’ civilian bombings they could still be seen running away tales between their legs at the slightest sight of the Libyan Army. Indeed well done to the New Libyan flag – I wonde how they got hold of all those old ‘Monarch’ flags again. Nothing to do with the fact that Idris the puppet king’s pretender to the throne has been invited to a conference to see how a new Constitutional Monarch can push forward new ‘Democratic’ reform.
      Well when ‘War is Peace’ and Killing Civilians is protecting Civilians and Imperialism is humane intervention then why not some cooked children. Humane is Humane after all. If you are gonna de-humanise then should go full throttle.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    America’s admitted douchebaggery on the world stage does NOT equal some kind of weird carte blanche that renders all of the world’s other dysfunctional dictatorships innocent. If anyone expects pity for people whose role on the world stage has been maintained by brutality, secret police and random executions…find another purpose in life…because this one isn’t working well.

    Yes…the US sucks…I and no small number of others bitch about it daily and keep feebly trying to vote and sway the votes of others in a vain attempt to alleviate some of that suckingness. True…it hasn’t helped much so far…but its something.

    But our own issues aside…Gaddafi is a murderous, militant thug and whatever becomes of him…or the loved ones he endangered by choosing a life as a brutal dictator…is on his head. I’ll save my tears for the dead protesters and Libyan patriots that wanted a self chosen leadership accountable to the people…and died in silence…unmourned by the soppy c*ntrags that weep for Gaddafi’s babies. F*ck him…and f*ck anyone whose busy with a mouthful of his dick because they’re blinded by their helpless rage at the US’s problems. Spend that energy fixing this country!!! 

  • IsoBan

    Do you actually know anything *about* Qaddafi?  I feel as though the default position commenters seem to have is that anyone the U.S. has issue with is actually a swell guy because everyone and everything the U.S. does or says is obviously evil.  Its not ‘speculation’ that NATO, and most especially the U.S., does not, in fact target children.  While I have grave issues with our government, the political parties, the congress, etc as being spoiled narcissists with god complexes, by and large people in uniform are not (despite the ‘fight the evil war machine’ crap that’s all the rage these days) actually ‘babykillers’ and anyone who believes this is so has been sucked up by a different kind of propaganda. This isn’t a ‘conditioned response to the villain in the room’, this is a rational response to an airhead like McKinney defending someone who has displayed far less regard for human life than she does. 

  • IsoBan

    The protective value they hold against targeted strikes from western countries..  Unless you think no crazy dictators ever used human shields consisting of their own family.  Of course, I’m sure Qaddafi isn’t a crazy dictator.  I’m sure he’s a swell guy who’s just been misunderstood. Or something like that.  I’m weird in that, if i were fighting a war in which half my country were trying to kill me, the first thing I would do is get my family well out of harm’s way and as far away from myself as possible knowing that somebody’s probably going to try to blow me up every week.  I’m sure he kept them all close because he’s just a great grandpappy. ffs.

  • Chris Mounce

    I just think its an ironic the way the US handles a friendly dictactor like Mubarak in Egypt or a hostile dictator in Libya. No one or at least not me is arguing because the US acts drunken giant stomping around the world it does no good or that by opposing the US those in opposition are clad in halos and wrapped in noble intentions. It would be better for us and Lybia if it was Lybians hang Qaddafi by a meat hook than dying in a US bombing raid. Just as it would have been better in the long run if those tear gas grenades & rifles pointed at Egyptian protestors weren’t stamped Made in the USA.

  • IsoBan

    Okay, here’s a fact: go read.  Read about Qaddafi and the Islamic Legion, and their effects on the the region.  Read about how Qaddafi kicked out thousands of Palestinians out of Libya in the 90′s because for once Palestine and Israel were actually knocking around ideas for peace.  For crying out loud, just go and read some of the details of his response to protesters in the last few months.  Instead of assuming we’re all full of it because obviously anything the evil western world does is evil, how about you go actually learn something about the person your defending? 
       PS: The issue that’s always been neglected regarding the slaughter of ‘civilians’ in Iraq is that the enemy we’re engaging is not, in fact, an ‘army’, but a very loosely organized confederation of ‘civilians’ who occasionally arm themselves to the teeth, blow up buses full of people, and other such asymmetrical warfare. “Hey! You killed Ahmed!  He was just a civilian!”  “Why was he in a hut with 3 AK-47s, a box of ammunition and a soviet surplus radio transceiver??” “Oh he’s just a collector.”  “Was.”  PPS: I think there’s a bit of a difference in corporations, through mostly negligence and stupidity, inflicting harm through questionable chemicals in foodstuff, and ordering your army to put down protesting men, women, and children with a helicopter mounted 50cal machine gun.  Anyone who doesn’t see the dividing line there is as morally blind as McKinney.

  • Patrick Naulty

    can’t agree with the babies comment, but its nice to hear a rational  voice amongst all this shit, dictators certainly ask for everything they eventually will get, but america is fucked up with power/money hungry dealers, this is endemic and perpetuated by the so-called educational system, same here in the UK of course, this has to change before anything else can be done, stop enforced public education and replace it with a willingness to pass on a way of life not based on greed, we really could do it 

  • IsoBan

    Please read a book, for pity’s sake. That’s the most depressingly wrong thing I’ve read in months.  And this is the internet, so that’s really saying something.  Preferably history.  Please, I’ll mail you some, just read books.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    ghandi a racist child molester? you are really fucking off it…point me to the proof, apart from his whingeing money-grubbing children

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    ghandi a racist child molester? you are really fucking off it…point me to the proof, apart from his whingeing money-grubbing children

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    george orwell in his book 1984 (written in 1948) described a propaganda film that showed a boatload of refugees murdered in just such a manner….I figure it was not qadaffi, but someone just like him from oceania

  • IsoBan

    Yes, at lot of it is, in fact, oil.  There, you go. The truth comes out.  The reality is that civilization runs on oil, and currently a good amount of that oil is locked up in a part of the world which is controlled by fabulously wealthy potentates ruling over angry poverty stricken people who, having no help from their own selfish, spoiled, despotic leaders, turn to the bloodthirsty moralities of 2000 year old myths and are willing to kill as many people as possible to bring the light of their religion to the world.  And these poor people are living within a stone’s throw of a substance without which a world of nearly 7 billion would starve or wither in disease as they become effectively immobile.  

      If we discontinue using oil tomorrow, hundreds of millions would die in very short order.  There are no replacement sources of energy or synthetics that would be adapted and integrated into our existing infrastructure fast enough to stave off massive social upheaval as basic services would screech to a halt.  This is not opinion, this is mathematics.  The alternative energy system that are being developed, while a noble goal, are simply not developing fast enough to meet the demands of expanding civilization, and *no* alternative can match the energy potential, relative safety, and engineering-friendly qualities of petroleum.  Please don’t take my word for this, go and research for yourself.  

      Feel better?  Its mostly oil.  Oil, and the fact that Qaddafi ( just like Saddam Hussein, like Hosni Mubarak and any number of other spoiled brats in fancy uniforms sitting in splendor while their people die in tattered rags) is in fact one of the kinds of monster who would gleefully use their one trump card…oil…as a shield and a hammer to get away with anything he wants.  

      Your moral superiority is now secure.

  • IsoBan

    Oh that’s very convenient.  “I render your reasoning and evidence invalid because people can fake stuff.” Yes, people *can* fake things.  The question is do we have any reason whatsoever to believe Qaddafi didn’t brutally murder his own people for protesting?  Well, I suppose if you include “I refuse to believe anything you say’ a reason, then I suppose you do.  At this point, my relying on facts is probably irrelevant. Clearly, your mind is made up on the matter.  Its a bit like religion in that way: “I refuse to admit further evidence that might question my position.”

       So, good luck with that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    the nato plan specifically said it was not about “regime change” or murdering Qaddafi, so basically he was obviously stupid enough to believe them, but in the circumstances where would the guys children have been safe? where could he have sent them? to the US? UK? buried them in a bunker somewhere? get fucking real

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    the trouble with the collapse of the USSR was most americans saw it as a victory and bought into the significance of the CIA in bringing that about when it was no such thing, the bogey man had to go somewhere and he went back home to finish what he had started in South America, Russia, Africa, south-east asia, happy birthday bob, they brought it all back home

  • blabla

    When the BIG rickroll comes team USA will be the one crying.  A melting pot that went horribly wrong-

  • blabla

    When the BIG rickroll comes team USA will be the one crying.  A melting pot that went horribly wrong-

  • blabla

    When the BIG rickroll comes team USA will be the one crying.  A melting pot that went horribly wrong-

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    i was really only saying that orwell, who had seen action in the spanish civil war, and worked for the government of the UK in ww2 as a propagandist foresaw that things were not about to change any time soon,and it seems he was right, we’ve learned nothing,i know for a fact he is a murderer, but just cannot believe anymore in this circle of violence the world is in. thankfully being in my 59th year i may not be around to witness much more of it, but my children will be, i cannot condone murder from any quarter

  • Voidthought

    It’s all very relative friend. You don’t know the “truth” of it unless you have experienced it. That isn’t to say we can’t speculate on what has happened, but what we do not need is assassination attempts that disregard innocent life, just to “get the badguy”. So morals are on the table now… why aren’t we invading all the rest of the world for their moral crimes against humanity? In my view of reality there can be no selective caring for this war and not that one, the victims of this murderer and not that one. Our justice system is selective because otherwise the CEOs of the bailed out corporations would be behind bars for “playing” the system. The only reason we interact with the world is because of motives, ulterior and otherwise and this is not a healthy morality.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    hardly, morally secure? i was in iraq in ’79-80 and met a lot of good people, saw about as much poverty that exists in any average big city in the UK, and the point is that although alternatives to oil are not readily available (i worked in the petroleum industry) we are not trying to develop the ones that are really possible, we are too busy just guzzling it, ” i’m alright jack the future generation can just go fuck off and die”

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    if Robert .E. Lee was not a despot what are we going to believe?

  • Voidthought

    So targeting a house in the suburbs with children and family members is an ok thing to do, so long as you get the target?? Do you think if they actually killed Gaddafi that this would be a story? The reason I said conditioned responses is because everyone hears that he has killed his own people and committed “atrocities” and they jump on the hatred bandwagon without any other consideration. The hypocrisy of the condemnation is appalling in that it automatically creates a safe zone for one person to say, “THAT, is evil and we must stop it.” Meanwhile people are starving to death, murders, rapes, etc and we make more bombs…. do you see the vicious irrational cycle I’m trying to convey? There are “boogeymen” that our government creates to rally popular support for a war, or whatever other motivations, that we clearly don’t want. Why the fuck are we even over there? They didn’t mess with us… Yet we SELECTIVELY decide to impose our morality upon these people and not those………………..

  • Anonymous

    Comparing protestors and patriots who chose their roles to the murder of children who just happened to get in the way is no comparison at all and just plain sick. So, on that issue I have to say fuck you Vox.
    Thats some nasty shit to say man.
    I would think you might find a better way to channel your anger than kicking dead bodies.
    Take a soppy cuntrag and wipe the shit of your mouth.

  • jackedu317

    i’ve read plenty of books, thank you. there are just too many parallels between the US today, Germany in the late 30s, and Rome the last years before their collapse. we’re conquering nations 1 by 1, then enslaving them in debt. we’ve been bombing about one country every year throughout my entire life. at the same time it’s been drilled into everyone’s head that WE are always right, that We have to spread “democracy” (by force if necessary), that WE have to fight injustice around the world. it’s simply not true…   we are the unjust, or at least our government is. and just like always, the real winners will be the bankers who funded both sides of the conflict, who give the loans to countries knowing full well they will never be able to pay it back.

  • jackedu317

    ok, think about this. T.H.L. was a British officer sent to the middle east to assist in a revolution. how is that any different from what is going on today? divide and conquer… divide and conquer…

  • jackedu317

    then why aren’t we bombing Canada?

  • jackedu317

    most of the US’s oil comes from Canada, not the middle east. if it was for oil, they wouldn’t be building a pipeline straight to India, China, and Russia. how could that possibly help us?

  • Chris Mounce

    As someone who has worked for the energy industry who consumes the final product matters the least those who control the supply and the distribution (pipelines & engines to pump it) is where the money and power is at. Who cares under what rock or sand dune that God has had the misfortune of placing in the hands of barbarians – when American & European engines and pipes are carrying that precious crude oil & natural gas to hungry customers around the globe. Remember the Red Chinese’s gold reserves are just as shiny as everybody else’s. And if the US controls distribution of this vital resource they would be pushing to hard to make us payoff our massive debt.  

  • jackedu317

    the Bin Ladens were safe in the US… why not the Gaddafis?

  • Chris Mounce

    I just think anybody who doesn’t know surgical strikes are an oxymoron hasn’t dealt with explosives. A sniper shot to the head would be more effective and have less chance off hurting civilians. And if children and grandchildren of heads of state are now to be legitimate military targets lets imagine the shoe on the other foot. What if an Arab country bombed Chicago or London to kill Obama or Cameron and “only” killed their families? It what be a media/miltary jingoistic circle jerk to bring about an orgy of mass destruction on the suspected villian. Qaddafi came to power for a reason. The corrupt Lybian monarchy backed by the west looted and lived in opulence while their people were starved and abused. If we the US or UK kill Qadaffi there are two likely results his son or a close cohort seizes power. Or the rebels takes advantage of the power vacuum and instal a new leader who will mostly become corrupt with power. Both options take us back to square one over a mound of corpses. But if the Lybian rebels do this themselves maybe they can forge a different path to a more free and open society that is neither an antagonist or puppet of our interests and actually represents the Lybian people.

  • Chris Mounce

    I’m sure he kept them close because that’s the same thing any powerful including Obama would do. Children and close relatives of powerful people are in danger because their relative by the mere fact of holding power has rival foreign & domestic as well the many nutballs out there who would hurt them to get to the real target or the could get caught in the crossfire. Targeting people based on proximatey isn’t a morally justifiable position. But I guess in your world family members of world leaders should shun and seperate themselves from these new pariahs just in case a bomb or bullet might hit to close too home. 

  • Ostrander Wally

    AWSOME!

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    If that were from someone I respected less than you…I would take that more personally.  I’m not sorry and don’t change my position on the overall subject…Gaddafi is a brutal thug and the chaos his people suffer is not solely the fault of the US…period. Supporting him is wildly, grotesquely, insanely wrong…but…

    …with respect to your having been offended…I’ll say this: I could have phrased some of that in a more kindly fashion. It was crude and vicious…and largely meant to be a slap to the face of the people who suddenly find tears when an American bomb kills…but can’t find the heart to care about thousands of victims of political silencing and false arrest, torture and murder…when someone else does it.

    The difference with me is that I hate it all. I hate it when the US does it, when Iran does it, when the UK does it…there are no free passes…and nobody gets special treatment. What sickens me most is seeing leftists…who damned well ought to be smarter than a fox viewer…blindly siding with scum…just to share their anger at the US. Rage against bad US policy = yay!. Lending support to a mass murderous maniac = booo!

  • Anonymous

    I hate it all too. But I offer kudos to Cynthia McKinney for drawing attention to what is being done in our names as “Americans”…although I’m not even sure what that nationalist designation means anymore. Its apparent meaning resides obscured under a fog of war. It’s hard to breath in here, so all the angry, compulsive, convulsive thrashing about is to be expected of anyone who hasn’t completly succumbed to its noxious miasma.
    It’s times like these that force us to become who we really are. Sorry, I can’t let callous “dead baby” statements like yours pass unapposed. That’s me -I generally know what I stand for. I think that you do too.
    I too have respect for your online legacy…and of course I too have let loose a few farts in my writings here.

    Hopefully our days as poop flinging monkeys are behing us and we pack a bag and leave monkey island for greener pastures. 

    PEACE

  • Anonymous

    Uh…..who’s bob?

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

    This is what happens when you try to remain free and work for your people.  Libya refused the IMF, they refused the world bankers and their loans and fraud…  They kept their physical gold locked up, away from the psychos and in turn they kept them happy by giving billions and billions of credit and investments to the west.  Of course non of this was physical wealth, but still.  Now the wolves came for all of it, and Gaddafi said no, now Libya is paying the price.  Defamation, destruction and enslavement.  It is quite sad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

    This is what happens when you try to remain free and work for your people.  Libya refused the IMF, they refused the world bankers and their loans and fraud…  They kept their physical gold locked up, away from the psychos and in turn they kept them happy by giving billions and billions of credit and investments to the west.  Of course non of this was physical wealth, but still.  Now the wolves came for all of it, and Gaddafi said no, now Libya is paying the price.  Defamation, destruction and enslavement.  It is quite sad.

    • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

      Not to mention the oil contracts that Gaddafi had just signed with China, I’m sure those are now void.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

    Not to mention the oil contracts that Gaddafi had just signed with China, I’m sure those are now void.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

    The US doesn’t suck, the uneducated citizenry who only have time to scrape up some money to get by for a day or two, its kind of hard to educate yourself when you have to survive.  The only ones who seem to have the time to see through the web of lies and deceit are the youth of those who have enough time and/or money.  Either you are too involved with work, or trying to get work, or just trying to survive.  Those with the time find the truth, unfortunately the way society is setup that isn’t many….  Plus with the flooding of immigrants (people who need to get settled and structured lifestyle before able to start looking beyond the family, ect) they can keep the majority completely occupied, completely dependent, completely unaware, and thats why they can be douches and get away with it, and thats why we all get “caught up” in the worlds hate towards Americans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

    The amount of time and money, resources and everything that has gone into taking out Gaddafi, just shows how much of a threat he is, even with most people believing the lies, they still need him gone.  He represents what they want dead in humanity. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJakeyl Jacob Newton

    The amount of time and money, resources and everything that has gone into taking out Gaddafi, just shows how much of a threat he is, even with most people believing the lies, they still need him gone.  He represents what they want dead in humanity. 

  • Village Idiot

    I’m glad you asked… http://www.subgenius.com/warning.html

  • Anonymous

    Oh of course. THE Bob Dobbs.

    Hail Bob!

  • Brutalbrutus

    If Qaddafi doesn’t like being a casualty of war, then perhaps he shouldn’t wage war.  The Buddha taught, among many other things, that the angry man will die a violent death.

  • Brutalbrutus

    If Qaddafi doesn’t like being a casualty of war, then perhaps he shouldn’t wage war.  The Buddha taught, among many other things, that the angry man will die a violent death.

  • Anonymous

    Rome was conquering other people right from its inception, not just the last few years before its demise. Conquering others was the source of their power. If it weren’t for conquests then they would have just remained a little town of no significance. As for Germany in the 30s, their only aim was to take back German land. Violently or peacefully, but starting wars wasn’t their objective. It is quite different to the US of today whose economy is built on war. So perhaps the comparison to Rome is justified, but not Nazi Germany.

  • Olga8sokol

    PLease people wake up You must stop wars !!! We must unit to stop wars and to respect each other and live in peace! We must stop war machine ! They take the power to kill !!! They know the only way to fill thier pockets! Pl people come to demand STOP THE WARS !!! STOP KILLING POEPLE !!! STOP !

  • Olga8sokol

    PLease people wake up You must stop wars !!! We must unit to stop wars and to respect each other and live in peace! We must stop war machine ! They take the power to kill !!! They know the only way to fill thier pockets! Pl people come to demand STOP THE WARS !!! STOP KILLING POEPLE !!! STOP !

  • Robinaali

    Yes indeed ‘VoxMagi’ you are right. Those children deserved to be fried and cooked what with Ghaddafi’s possible massacre of all those well armed and funded ‘patriots’ who begged and pleaded for their former colonial masters to bomb and kill their fellow Libyans. How brave these ‘rebels’ are who had to be persuaded with ‘pertodollars’ to rise up the ‘Arab Spring’ is here and despite NATO humane ‘protecting’ civilian bombings they could still be seen running away tales between their legs at the slightest sight of the Libyan Army. Indeed well done to the New Libyan flag – I wonde how they got hold of all those old ‘Monarch’ flags again. Nothing to do with the fact that Idris the puppet king’s pretender to the throne has been invited to a conference to see how a new Constitutional Monarch can push forward new ‘Democratic’ reform.
    Well when ‘War is Peace’ and Killing Civilians is protecting Civilians and Imperialism is humane intervention then why not some cooked children. Humane is Humane after all. If you are gonna de-humanise then should go full throttle.

  • Robinaali

    Yes no ego problems here. We all know ‘The Libyan people’ don’t we? Those brown (jee your joking there black Libyans too) all want what we have ‘freedom’ and ‘human rights’ RIGHT. My 10 year old daughter: If the Libyan people want this then why is it so hard convincing so many of them. I mean you have to bomb and bomb, cut of the water, electricity, food and oil and surround it with a massive arsenal of weaponry that you just stumbled across while you were ‘Arab Springin it’. And you have to do this town after town. These pesky Libyans – (sorry Loyalists, anti NATO, anti Freedom, anti imperialists but definately not civilians and certainly not humans) don’t want it. Do they not know how ‘evil’ he was? Everyone who doesn’t know him – knows he is.

    Funny isn’t it all those Libyans with Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds even bloody Geordie accents and not to be mistaken the Libyan with the Southern Slang of Texas there to ‘liberate’ Libya.

    The Guy is so EVIL he is responsible for NATO and REBEL crimes not to mention the deaths of his own children and their children. Pity his government ministers (like the Justice Minister and that minister who imprisoned those nurses for infecting Libyan children with Aids) at the time bear no responsibility but his children mainly living and studying in Europe at the time are dead men standing. Well as long as Gold and Oil make sense thats all that matters.

  • Robinaali

    IsoBan. Why don’t you log off right now and get yourself a nice little history book and read it until you can say something more original than ‘read’ a history book. Infact why don’t you read a very simple history of Libya written by the propagandist arm of the UK the BBC for instance. It may give you a little insight to who owned Libya and who is fighting for it now. Also it may give you insight into how to conduct a bloodless revolution. Or maybe a bloodless one is not the ‘genuine’ article’ and NATO is in for supporting a very bloody one – what with all those bombs to sell and lovely opportunities for product placement. The Libyans can surely afford them. May be you could read that in your ‘books’.

  • ShakestheMighty

    classy

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