The Incredibly Tiny Christian Fundamentalist Universe

Tiny UniverseMaybe those 21 May 2011 “End of the World” folks were right, and only their tiny universe disappeared? Jim Walker writes on NoBeliefs.com:

Incredible as it may seem, many Christians today believe that a god created the universe approximately 6000 years ago. That means that everything in it, planets, stars, moons, comets, and even light itself, must have originated at the time (or after) the Great Creation.

Consider that no energy or matter in the universe can travel faster than the speed of light. If you take the speed-of-light back in time 6000 years to the point of the alleged Creation, you get a spherical radius of only around 6000 light-years. This means that a 12,000 diameter light-year bubble represents everything that could possibly happen or exist within the time range of Christian chronology. Consider that the entire Christian universe cannot measure larger than a single average galaxy in the known universe! The miniscule Christian universe would sit as a tiny dwarf within a single galaxy such as the Andromeda galaxy (shown above). Astronomers estimate that hundreds of billions of galaxies exist in the universe. Each of these galaxies could contain hundreds of Christian-sized universes!

And even here I have presented an extremely generous sized Christian universe. In actuality, Dark Aged Christendom held on to only one world. Not a world but the world; not an earth but the Earth. Remember that the Church long held to the belief that the stars revolved around the Earth, the only world they knew. Not until long after Galileo did we demote the earth to just one world among trillions. Once you have our earth orbiting around the sun, it no longer holds a special place in the universe, and we now know our sun exists as a sun, just one among trillions of other suns.

Read More: NoBeliefs.com

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  • John

    a rediculous oversimplfication.. the speed of light is NOT a constant by any means, has been shown to reduce speed over the past 150 years of it being measured, and is effected by many things such as gravity and temperature. a light year is a standardized measurement.

  • John

    a rediculous oversimplfication.. the speed of light is NOT a constant by any means, has been shown to reduce speed over the past 150 years of it being measured, and is effected by many things such as gravity and temperature. a light year is a standardized measurement.

    • SF2K01

      Just like the dinosaur bones, the universe was clearly created in it’s present state to trick non-believers into a false reality. Any test you can do will fail and only measure the apparent reality, but the true reality you can find in the Biahbul!

    • angelxmoreno

      agreed! Try explaining that in lay man’s terms, lol. 

  • Anonymous

    Just like the dinosaur bones, the universe was clearly created in it’s present state to trick non-believers into a false reality. Any test you can do will fail and only measure the apparent reality, but the true reality you can find in the Biahbul!

  • Anonymous

    This article, like many such articles, fails to recognize the evolution of religion in the face of changing reality. Yes, other than literalist christians, many have come to accept ideas like a round earth, but honest religion does it’s best to encompass truth rather than reject it as objective realityt does not contradict it’s basic tenants of belief in a higher power. Individual religions or aspects of certain religions may be disproven, but that is a far cry from wiping out religion overall as different ones will always rise and fall.

  • SF2K01

    This article, like many such articles, fails to recognize the evolution of religion in the face of changing reality. Yes, other than literalist christians, many have come to accept ideas like a round earth, but honest religion does it’s best to encompass truth rather than reject it as objective reality does not contradict its basic tenants of belief in a higher power. Individual religions or aspects of certain religions may be disproven, but that is a far cry from wiping out religion overall as different ones will always rise and fall.

    • Junny

      Looking at the recent religions (Scientology, Jedi, Wicca) they’re less dogmatic, more cultish and reek of far more lunacy than other religions. These religions came about in the age of reason and science; they weren’t made 2000 years ago by crutchy old men or a 7th century merchant, who obviously all had a “medieval mindset”. Christianity, Islam and Hinduism may become extinct, but will be replaced by even mor nuttier religions.

      • quartz99

        Well, the early days of most religions look a lot like Wicca looks now. They all start as somewhat lunatic (by their own society’s standards) cults that reflect some value of their age magnified, usually started originally by one very charismatic person or a small group who claim some ancient roots to what they’re doing and call it revealed mysticism when they’ve really just mashed together a few old ideas to create something that is appealing to the part of their followers (and maybe themselves) that wants to feel special and elect and chosen (and make no mistake, all humans have that side). Then it starts to get a little bigger and a little less cultish as more people join and it gains slightly different sects or variants. Then a few more people realize they can gain power, prestige and/or money by using that slightly less cultish version and claiming to be an arbiter between the supernatural agency in question and its followers. This takes a certain amount of conning and deception as most cults start with either the premise that you do not need an arbiter or that the original leader/group is the sole arbiter and anyone who comes after is a false prophet. Once you’ve convinced people of this, you’ve started to create a rigid hierarchical structure and you start getting doctrines designed mostly to retain and support this structure.

        In other words, 1000 – 2000 years from now, Wicca and maybe even Scientology will probably look a lot like Christianity or Islam do today.

        • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

          always supposing the joining of such a group, but the thing is the group exists because the idea exists,and what do  you do with the idea?

          • Guest

            If you don’t agree with it and it doesn’t affect you? Let it be and make your own.

      • DeepCough

        This is gonna sound like a funny argument but bear with me here: it’s true, irony of ironies, religion itself does evolve its cosmology over the course of the centuries to give humans a certain divine purpose within said perspective. And as much of a stretch as this is, Scientology and Mormonism are religions with evolved perspectives because they include a more vast view of the universe, including different galaxies and other celestial bodies, whereas old religions like Christianity hold a more geocentric perspective of the cosmos.

  • Junny

    The Bible and the Koran both promote a geocentric model of the universe: a flat, stationary earth with seven firmaments above it; the sun, moon and stars suspended and orbiting the earth in the firmaments. The earth is basically the center of the universe.

    Recent progress in the field of astronomy has by far discredited the Judeo-Christo-Islamic complex model of the universe. Of course, two of the three religions have attempted to bring back some credibility to their now redundant books: I believe it was Ray Comfort who said the Bible rightfully described the shape of the earth (the verse states “circle” and contradicts another verse mentioning the “four corners of the earth” – might be metaphorical); very similar to recent claims that 79:30 of the Koran depicts the same thing (in the shape of an ostrich’s egg – correct, but a quick check of Pickthall’s and Yusuf Ali’s translation reveals the word in question to mean “spread out”).

    If Moses, Yeshua and Mohammed were born in the mid-20th century, say, the books would’ve been surprisingly different.

  • Junny

    The Bible and the Koran both promote a geocentric model of the universe: a flat, stationary earth with seven firmaments above it; the sun, moon and stars suspended and orbiting the earth in the firmaments. The earth is basically the center of the universe.

    Recent progress in the field of astronomy has by far discredited the Judeo-Christo-Islamic complex model of the universe. Of course, two of the three religions have attempted to bring back some credibility to their now redundant books: I believe it was Ray Comfort who said the Bible rightfully described the shape of the earth (the verse states “circle” and contradicts another verse mentioning the “four corners of the earth” – might be metaphorical); very similar to recent claims that 79:30 of the Koran depicts the same thing (in the shape of an ostrich’s egg – correct, but a quick check of Pickthall’s and Yusuf Ali’s translation reveals the word in question to mean “spread out”).

    If Moses, Yeshua and Mohammed were born in the mid-20th century, say, the books would’ve been surprisingly different.

  • Junny

    Looking at the recent religions (Scientology, Jedi, Wicca) they’re less dogmatic, more cultish and reek of far more lunacy than other religions. These religions came about in the age of reason and science; they weren’t made 2000 years ago by crutchy old men or a 7th century merchant, who obviously all had a “medieval mindset”. Christianity, Islam and Hinduism may become extinct, but will be replaced by even mor nuttier religions.

  • Hamsanath437

     This is still wrong. If god created the universe, I’m pretty sure he could break the speed of light. not saying i believe this crap but it’s a stupid article

  • Hamsanath437

     This is still wrong. If god created the universe, I’m pretty sure he could break the speed of light. not saying i believe this crap but it’s a stupid article

    • SF2K01

      Well it’s mostly due to the fact that these kinds of articles envision religion as a simple, pathetic entity that is easily disproven, regardless of whether or not they have a very developed theology to answer the questions they pose. Usually these articles are written by people who broke away from the religion because they had questions that were unanswered (the religion might have had an answer but they never asked). Since the author is so emotionally invested, he finds it hard to write an article that could honestly discuss the pitfalls of religion in an intelligent manner and degrades into child like whining of how “stupid” religion is, which doesn’t convince anyone.

    • http://www.facebook.com/will.kirchheimer Will Kirchheimer

      As opposed to the idea that god deliberately lied, creating spans of light and planets that could not possibly have come into existence in the time the universe has existed.   Arguing that by deliberately creating a false timeline and effective age for the universe, god created a perfectly balanced opportunity to chose faith?

      And you call this article crap?

      • Chrisrsherwood

         How could a so called “God” lie when it doesn’t exist?  God = Santa Clause.

        • angelxmoreno

           God never lied. God is science. If science says it took 6 units of time to create the universe and some idiot thinks the unit of time was Earth days then it is not science’s fault.

          • Rammus

             Just to let you know your God is not the God that created the Universe. Your God only watched as my God made the Universe. Know the true God and quit being a fake Christian!

          • Me

            huh?

        • Padraig

          “God=santa claus” this is why christians cannot understand why their children fall from faith, they bring them up to believe in santa and they find out at an early age that he doesn’t exist, so if they can’t believe in santa anymore why should they believe in God, an equally invisible entity

      • angelxmoreno

        This article is not crap. Only closed minded people would think of it as crap. God never lied, our interpretation was wrong. However, let us ourselves not be closed minded to the idea that there might be forces and phenomenas that can alter our interpretation of the data we have collected. Anti-time for example.

    • http://www.facebook.com/marc.oberholtzer Marc Oberholtzer

      why do people like you always spit in the face of science? go get a telescope take a look and then do the math. the universe is bigger than you me the earth and any gods we may imagine. the whole idea that a god created the universe makes me want to bang my head against the wall. come join the rest of us living here in the 21st century. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/supercontext Thomas Matthew Campbell

        I can imagine things bigger than the universe. Even math can.

        • angelxmoreno

          Indeed! 

        • Lincolnbobinkon

          Me too, like, maybe, two universes… 

          • Johnm28

            The phrase “multiple universes” exists but ultimately according to my dictionary, “The universe” encompasses all things, if “nothing could be said to exist then it would be included in “The universe”. The English language does allow for “The universe” to be divided into subsets, each being a universe with defined limitations, such as; the universe of planets, the universe of stars, the universe of galaxies, the universe of Muslims, the Universal Church, and the universe of Sodomites to mention a few of the infinite set. Each set may be three or four dimensional and require multiple  sets of upper and lower limits in its definition.

            To say there are two of “The universe” would be grammatically incorrect and psychologically damaging.
             

      • Chrisrsherwood

         Why even argue with god idiots???  Think about it all.  There is no other conclusion.  Aduts with imaginary friends are idiots.  Period.

        • http://www.facebook.com/PandaEuthanasia Sam Breaker Bumpas

          People who deem other people “idiots” are idiots. You, myself and just about everyone around hold onto their own ideas, many of which make absolutely no sense, and many of which are brilliant. Religious faith as an idea alone does not make any one person stupid; it’s how this person uses their ideas. I think we can all agree that using an idea like religion to shut out the beliefs/non-beliefs of others is dumb. That’s called ignorance. The Christians and other religious people who adhere to such behaviors aren’t alone however. ANYBODY who shuts out the ideas of others is ignorant and dumb. Welcome to the club.

          • Alfred

             “People who deem other people “idiots” are idiots.”

            Hmmmmm circular logic says…Sam “Idiot” Bumpas… and I am an idiot! Sweet Jesus we are all idiots :)

      • angelxmoreno

        um, dude, so you have traveled the entire universe and have brought back proof that no alien in the entire universe can create new universes? You sound as closed minded as certain flawed religions.

      • http://www.facebook.com/winterisoverrated Fabian_Ramos

        ever heard of the “circle of life” and how each living organism plays their part in it.
         No act of God huh?

    • Chrisrsherwood

       Duh, there is no such thing as god.  Think abut it fool!

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FHHC2VABG76KLMFIQ2BGP4NBCM DanR

      Or he could have created the universe as-is in a single instant. “As-is” meaning with everything already in place, including the beams of light that would have originated from distant stars, had they not just been created 6000 years ago. Sure, it’s an odd, stupid idea, but no more odd than the whole concept of God itself or the ludicrous stories in the Bible. I’ve gotta side with Hams on this one, this kind of argument is “easy pickins”, not to mention a straw man. There are countless ridiculous things believed by actual fundies, mainstream Christians, and apologists alike that we can unload on.

      • AgreeToDisagree

        “Or he could have created the universe as-is in a single instant” This is exactly what my parents believe and what I was taught growing up. They call it the “mature universe” and there is no point in trying to argue logically with people like my parents who have willingly embraced such an illogical concept. But it is a way for them to justify and rationalize all of their other beliefs and it helps them sleep at night in a world that utterly terrifies them. When I go and visit them, we have an agree-to-disagree rule and generally try to avoid such conversations because it is just a waste of time/effort/energy.   

    • quartz99

      I think everyone who replied to you missed the part where you said “not saying I believe this crap”. Reading comprehension is such a lost art…

  • Anonymous

    It should be remembered that the word, FUNDAMENT was polite vernacular for the buttocks (the “ass”) in lade Victorian and Edwardian times. Indeed, we still, though seldom, encounter that usage today.

  • robertpinkerton

    It should be remembered that the word, FUNDAMENT was polite vernacular for the buttocks (the “ass”) in lade Victorian and Edwardian times. Indeed, we still, though seldom, encounter that usage today.

    • Nathan

       I could go for some serious FUNdamentals right now…

  • Anonymous

    Well, the early days of most religions look a lot like Wicca looks now. They all start as somewhat lunatic (by their own society’s standards) cults that reflect some value of their age magnified, usually started originally by one very charismatic person or a small group who claim some ancient roots to what they’re doing and call it revealed mysticism when they’ve really just mashed together a few old ideas to create something that is appealing to the part of their followers (and maybe themselves) that wants to feel special and elect and chosen (and make no mistake, all humans have that side). Then it starts to get a little bigger and a little less cultish as more people join and it gains slightly different sects or variants. Then a few more people realize they can gain power, prestige and/or money by using that slightly less cultish version and claiming to be an arbiter between the supernatural agency in question and its followers. This takes a certain amount of conning and deception as most cults start with either the premise that you do not need an arbiter or that the original leader/group is the sole arbiter and anyone who comes after is a false prophet. Once you’ve convinced people of this, you’ve started to create a rigid hierarchical structure and you start getting doctrines designed mostly to retain and support this structure.

    In other words, 1000 – 2000 years from now, Wicca and maybe even Scientology will probably look a lot like Christianity or Islam do today.

  • guest

    Very few Christians accept the “young earth theory” you are referring to in this article. Learn more about religions true beliefs before you criticize them.

  • guest

    Very few Christians accept the “young earth theory” you are referring to in this article. Learn more about religions true beliefs before you criticize them.

    • Nathan

       I know many Christians who believe in a young universe, and I live in a liberal city. It’s not so much that they’ll challenge a scientist on it, they just opt out of thinking. I grew up in the Christian tradition and still have respect for many of it’s tenets, but those who take the bible literally are mistaking the map for the territory.

      • Ryan

        The “many” Christians you speak of is still such a small number and an inaccurate one at that. It has been estimated that there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world, but by saying “many” how do you actually define that? And then to define all Christians as being the same is extremely unfair. There are many different denominations which in some cases have very different belief system. I’m not even a Christian, I’m an atheist and I feel that your article is very unfair and in a way, is belittling to the Christian community. People should judge others based on character, not belief system. And just because someone is a quirky fundamentalist, you don’t need to attack them. To each his/her own. Live and let live! I’m sure it’s safe to say that racial over-generalizations and stereotypes are unacceptable, so why shouldn’t religious stereotypes be the same? I agree with you article’s scientific evidence, that is undeniable. But don’t attack someone for thinking differently than you.

        • Chrisrsherwood

           All christians are fools.  Why would they want their god???  You all know the arguments.  I’m not gonna repeat them. 

          • Jon The Not Babtist

             Chill out man there is no need for hate.

          • Jedi

            How can one judge when one does not understand? John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” …. Jesus also said, tell of the good news. He NEVER said  convert by the sword.  Luke 4:43 But he said, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.”

      • Chrisrsherwood

         Those who take the bible literally are idiots.  They will not think for themselves.

        • Jedi

          You don’t think for yourself. Satan is in control of the thought atmosphere while one is spirituality dead.  If you read the Holy Word as a spirit filled person from the HS, you would understand that.

    • Chrisrsherwood

       All religions are horse crap.  All religion is false.  God/gods are the biggest pile of false crap that man kind has invented thus far.  This is totally obvious.  Think about it….

      • Jedi

        Yep, “the way of Cain”.

    • Jon The Not Babtist

       “The Incredibly Tiny Christian Fundamentalist Universe”
      That is the title. Its not ” The Incredibly Tiny Christian Universe”
      The author is talking about the by the book fundamentalist not every christian ever to exist.
      Learn more about the English language before you criticize something that is written in it.

    • quartz99

       In some places that’s true. In many places in the US, Young Earth is the majority Christian viewpoint. Enough people believe this that the National Parks Service is selling young earth tripe in places like the Grand Canyon. Evolution and climate science tend to take the spotlight in the media when it comes to fundamentalists denying science but there’s just as many young earthers as people who deny evolution, because they tend to be the same people. Anywhere you hear about science teachers being forced to teach creationist bullshit in the classroom, you can assume there’s probably a big push toward teaching young earth “theories” too. That just doesn’t sell newspapers as well so you don’t hear about it as much.

      As of December 2010, 40% of US citizens believe in Young Earth Creationism, according to Gallup. Read that again. FORTY percent. Keep in mind that only followers of the Abrahamic faiths are going to be believing that the Abrahamic God created the earth, so YEC is exclusive to the Abrahamic faiths. Considering that Christians, Muslims and Jews combined are just less than 80% of the population, that means that just about half of them believe in a young earth. That’s not “very few Christians.” That’s _half_ of them.

      I can tell you from experience they tend to be concentrated in the center and south of the country, so in those areas the percentage is much higher, and rising. This is one reason I left Wisconsin. I couldn’t get away from the stupidity anymore.

      • hldcrstn

        But do you consider the age of the people being polled? Many of our grandparents still believe in the young earth, however many parents and people of the “millennial” generation don’t take Genesis literally. I go to a Christian school, we are taught evolution, and the real age of the earth–meaning not the 6000 earth. You know how you get the 6000 year old earth? You take the generations that are mentioned in the Bible and estimate also based on the ages of the people in the early parts of Genesis. 

        • quartz99

          People don’t cease to be people because they’re a little older. In point of fact, they tend to have more power within their organization if they’re older. Half is half, whether some of them are older or younger. And in the Midwest, the youth believe that same bullshit too, because that’s what they’re being taught.

    • Jedi

      I know what you are talking about and part of the dispensations. Rightly dividing the truth-stewardship.

  • Nathan

     I know many Christians who believe in a young universe, and I live in a liberal city. It’s not so much that they’ll challenge a scientist on it, they just opt out of thinking. I grew up in the Christian tradition and still have respect for many of it’s tenets, but those who take the bible literally are mistaking the map for the territory.

  • Jedi

    God is omnipresent, our human clock is not the same has Gods clock. Man made time not God.   

  • Jedi

    God is omnipresent, our human clock is not the same has Gods clock. Man made time not God.   

    • Chrisrsherwood

       God = Santa Clause. Think about it, Jedi…

      • Jedi

        Try not to mix God with Roman Catholic and human.

    • atheist person

       Man made god, not time.

      • angelxmoreno

        don’t confuse God with the fairy tales those fat, ignorant, illogical dudes have brainwashed billions to believe.  they simply state their flawed interpretation. God is the force. Start there. No one can claim there was no beginning. Call the action that started the reaction that led to existence as God. Big bang, evolution, all that can be called God if you believe those things happened. I’m 99% sure they did and I know that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction (thanks to God revealing that to Newton). God can simply be that action that started it all. 

        and BTW, Man defined time and has rewritten its flawed definition many times. We couldn’t even do the math right for leap years. This is the proper definition of a leap year :
        Every year divisible by 4 is a leap year.
        But every year divisible by 100 is not a leap year
        Unless the year is also divisible by 400, then it is still a leap yearwhat the heck? That sounds like Man made to me. I betcha if aliens came they would make fun of us for that :-P

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5CP7ED2OJWP2WRKAIRKKWFU6EQ Choice

          then who created “god” ?

      • Guest

        Unless god is Time.

      • Jedi

        No, that is what you say. That is not what the Holy word says.

  • Nathan

     I could go for some serious FUNdamentals right now…

  • Grooveboss

     universe was created at my birth end of story. Only the illusion of a long past is what confuses 

  • Grooveboss

     universe was created at my birth end of story. Only the illusion of a long past is what confuses 

    • Andrew

      If there was no universe, how were you born?

      • Michael Hardeman

         He’s saying that each of us perceives a different universe then anyone else. All we know about the universe is what our brain can gather from our different senses, so our interperation of the universe exists only within our brain. So the universe for him was only created at his birth.

        • Andrew

          So his mom is just as old as he is?  And are we sure his dad is actually his dad?

          • Michael Hardeman

            well being literal, yes. The atoms in my body are just as old as the atoms in her body, but i assume that you mean in human years so… no. Time is independent of perception, but perception is the only way for us to percieve the universe. Check out the double slit experiment to see how perception effect the universe.

          • Johnm28

            this is an interesting concept. You age can be determined by carbon dating; does this mean that the carbon atom changes over time and and begins at birth and how come a tooth taken from a four year old musk rat may carbon date at 350 years?

      • Grooveboss

         there is no need for a separate angency behind my birth mother was created at the moment of creation, the birth process is just another illusion for my entertainment. its a hologram with no end or beginning 

    • Ray

      You can justify anything with that argument.  Slippery slope…

    • Simiantongue

      But if the universe was created at your birth…Then… Oh no!!! We have to make it priority #1 to keep grooveboss alive!!!

    • Padraig

      class!

  • Andrew

    If there was no universe, how were you born?

  • Andrew

    If there was no universe, how were you born?

  • Anonymous

    Well it’s mostly due to the fact that these kinds of articles envision religion as a simple, pathetic entity that is easily disproven, regardless of whether or not they have a very developed theology to answer the questions they pose. Usually these articles are written by people who broke away from the religion because they had questions that were unanswered (the religion might have had an answer but they never asked). Since the author is so emotionally invested, he finds it hard to write an article that could honestly discuss the pitfalls of religion in an intelligent manner and degrades into child like whining of how “stupid” religion is, which doesn’t convince anyone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/will.kirchheimer Will Kirchheimer

    As opposed to the idea that god deliberately lied, creating spans of light and planets that could not possibly have come into existence in the time the universe has existed.   Arguing that by deliberately creating a false timeline and effective age for the universe, god created a perfectly balanced opportunity to chose faith?

    And you call this article crap?

  • http://www.facebook.com/marc.oberholtzer Marc Oberholtzer

    why do people like you always spit in the face of science? go get a telescope take a look and then do the math. the universe is bigger than you me the earth and any gods we may imagine. the whole idea that a god created the universe makes me want to bang my head against the wall. come join the rest of us living here in the 21st century. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/ed.hieronymus Paul Edward Hieronymus Jr

    Very sound article as Yahweh doesn’t exist, and he never existed.  ‘Nuff said.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ed.hieronymus Paul Edward Hieronymus Jr

    Very sound article as Yahweh doesn’t exist, and he never existed.  ‘Nuff said.

    • Chrisrsherwood

       No shit man!

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.naulty Patrick Naulty

    always supposing the joining of such a group, but the thing is the group exists because the idea exists,and what do  you do with the idea?

  • http://www.facebook.com/supercontext Thomas Matthew Campbell

    I can imagine things bigger than the universe. Even math can.

  • superfluous

    compared to religious fundamentalists, we all look like goddamn geniuses, don’t we.. 

  • superfluous

    compared to religious fundamentalists, we all look like goddamn geniuses, don’t we.. 

  • superfluous

    compared to religious fundamentalists, we all look like goddamn geniuses, don’t we.. 

  • Ray

    You can justify anything with that argument.  Slippery slope…

  • Ryan

    The “many” Christians you speak of is still such a small number and an inaccurate one at that. It has been estimated that there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world, but by saying “many” how do you actually define that? And then to define all Christians as being the same is extremely unfair. There are many different denominations which in some cases have very different belief system. I’m not even a Christian, I’m an atheist and I feel that your article is very unfair and in a way, is belittling to the Christian community. People should judge others based on character, not belief system. And just because someone is a quirky fundamentalist, you don’t need to attack them. To each his/her own. Live and let live! I’m sure it’s safe to say that racial over-generalizations and stereotypes are unacceptable, so why shouldn’t religious stereotypes be the same? I agree with you article’s scientific evidence, that is undeniable. But don’t attack someone for thinking differently than you.

  • Ryan

    The “many” Christians you speak of is still such a small number and an inaccurate one at that. It has been estimated that there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world, but by saying “many” how do you actually define that? And then to define all Christians as being the same is extremely unfair. There are many different denominations which in some cases have very different belief system. I’m not even a Christian, I’m an atheist and I feel that your article is very unfair and in a way, is belittling to the Christian community. People should judge others based on character, not belief system. And just because someone is a quirky fundamentalist, you don’t need to attack them. To each his/her own. Live and let live! I’m sure it’s safe to say that racial over-generalizations and stereotypes are unacceptable, so why shouldn’t religious stereotypes be the same? I agree with you article’s scientific evidence, that is undeniable. But don’t attack someone for thinking differently than you.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Why should any of this be surprising.  To believe in any religion, you must first reject obvious facts, and rational thinking.  The ability to deny anything that does not agree with your delusions means you cannot accept these things and must also prevent free speech and education.    So far, religions have done a pretty thorough job of all of that.

    Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.  For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA.  Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the dark ages.  Get the idea?

    Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

    Why should any of this be surprising?  To believe in any religion, you must first reject obvious facts and rational thinking.  The ability to deny anything that does not agree with your delusions means you cannot accept these things and must also prevent free speech and education.    So far, religions have done a pretty thorough job of all of that.

    Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.  For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA.  Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the dark ages.  Get the idea?

    Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.

    • mrtastycakes

       Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by power. Religion may or may not be involved. Unfortunately, because of the melding of church and state, there is a significant amount of overlap (e.g. the Church of England, Islamic states, the perception of ‘Christian America’, puritan colonies, and Roman Catholic empires).

      Would the world be free, truthful, and rational without religion? I suggest you consult the Russians, Chinese, Cambodians, Ukrainians, Tibetans, North Koreans, etc . . .

    • angelxmoreno

      not really. Those were the bootleg Christians. The roman Catholic Church was founded way after there were Christians around. Those barbarians call themselves that which they were not. However, it seems like they even tricked you.

  • Michael Hardeman

     He’s saying that each of us perceives a different universe then anyone else. All we know about the universe is what our brain can gather from our different senses, so our interperation of the universe exists only within our brain. So the universe for him was only created at his birth.

  • Chrisrsherwood

     No shit man!

  • Chrisrsherwood

     God = Santa Clause. Think about it, Jedi…

  • Chrisrsherwood

     Duh, there is no such thing as god.  Think abut it fool!

  • Chrisrsherwood

     Why even argue with god idiots???  Think about it all.  There is no other conclusion.  Aduts with imaginary friends are idiots.  Period.

  • Chrisrsherwood

     How could a so called “God” lie when it doesn’t exist?  God = Santa Clause.

  • Jon The Not Babtist

    Why is it that every time I see one of these articles every person in it is jumping up every other persons ass?

  • Jon The Not Babtist

    Why is it that every time I see one of these articles every person in it is jumping up every other persons ass?

    • superfluous

      i think it’s the true meaning of the word “meme”..
      and it seems contagious.  

  • Chrisrsherwood

     All religions are horse crap.  All religion is false.  God/gods are the biggest pile of false crap that man kind has invented thus far.  This is totally obvious.  Think about it….

  • Chrisrsherwood

     Those who take the bible literally are idiots.  They will not think for themselves.

  • Jon The Not Babtist

     “The Incredibly Tiny Christian Fundamentalist Universe”
    That is the title. Its not ” The Incredibly Tiny Christian Universe”
    The author is talking about the by the book fundamentalist not every christian ever to exist.
    Learn more about the English language before you criticize something that is written in it.

  • Chrisrsherwood

     All christians are fools.  Why would they want their god???  You all know the arguments.  I’m not gonna repeat them. 

  • Jon The Not Babtist

     Chill out man there is no need for hate.

  • DeepCough

    This is gonna sound like a funny argument but bear with me here: it’s true, irony of ironies, religion itself does evolve its cosmology over the course of the centuries to give humans a certain divine purpose within said perspective. And as much of a stretch as this is, Scientology and Mormonism are religions with evolved perspectives because they include a more vast view of the universe, including different galaxies and other celestial bodies, whereas old religions like Christianity hold a more geocentric perspective of the cosmos.

  • funnymentalist

    Unfortunately that won’t convince fundies at all.  I’ve heard the rebuttal to this many times. The universe was created 6000 years ago with all of the light that we see from millions to billions of light years away being created in place as we see it now by God. They don’t argue that the observable universe isn’t billions of light years in size just that it was created more or less in it’s present form with the all of the electromagnetic spectrum already spread out across the universe as if it had been traveling for billions of years.  You will always loose that argument with fundies because they always have “because God did it”.   

  • funnymentalist

    Unfortunately that won’t convince fundies at all.  I’ve heard the rebuttal to this many times. The universe was created 6000 years ago with all of the light that we see from millions to billions of light years away being created in place as we see it now by God. They don’t argue that the observable universe isn’t billions of light years in size just that it was created more or less in it’s present form with the all of the electromagnetic spectrum already spread out across the universe as if it had been traveling for billions of years.  You will always loose that argument with fundies because they always have “because God did it”.   

  • philip d

    Unfortunately that won’t convince fundies at all.  I’ve heard the rebuttal to this many times. The universe was created 6000 years ago with all of the light that we see from millions to billions of light years away being created in place as we see it now by God. They don’t argue that the observable universe isn’t billions of light years in size just that it was created more or less in it’s present form with the all of the electromagnetic spectrum already spread out across the universe as if it had been traveling for billions of years.  You will always loose that argument with fundies because they always have “because God did it”.   

  • superfluous

    i think it’s the true meaning of the word “meme”..
    and it seems contagious.  

  • Andrew

    So his mom is just as old as he is?  And are we sure his dad is actually his dad?

  • Grooveboss

     there is no need for a separate angency behind my birth mother was created at the moment of creation, the birth process is just another illusion for my entertainment. its a hologram with no end or beginning 

  • Anonymous

     In some places that’s true. In many places in the US, Young Earth is the majority Christian viewpoint. Enough people believe this that the National Parks Service is selling young earth tripe in places like the Grand Canyon. Evolution and climate science tend to take the spotlight in the media when it comes to fundamentalists denying science but there’s just as many young earthers as people who deny evolution, because they tend to be the same people. Anywhere you hear about science teachers being forced to teach creationist bullshit in the classroom, you can assume there’s probably a big push toward teaching young earth “theories” too. That just doesn’t sell newspapers as well so you don’t hear about it as much.

    As of December 2010, 40% of US citizens believe in Young Earth Creationism, according to Gallup. Read that again. FORTY percent. Keep in mind that only followers of the Abrahamic faiths are going to be believing that the Abrahamic God created the earth, so YEC is exclusive to the Abrahamic faiths. Considering that Christians, Muslims and Jews combined are just less than 80% of the population, that means that just about half of them believe in a young earth. That’s not “very few Christians.” That’s _half_ of them.

    I can tell you from experience they tend to be concentrated in the center and south of the country, so in those areas the percentage is much higher, and rising. This is one reason I left Wisconsin. I couldn’t get away from the stupidity anymore.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FHHC2VABG76KLMFIQ2BGP4NBCM DanR

    Or he could have created the universe as-is in a single instant. “As-is” meaning with everything already in place, including the beams of light that would have originated from distant stars, had they not just been created 6000 years ago. Sure, it’s an odd, stupid idea, but no more odd than the whole concept of God itself or the ludicrous stories in the Bible. I’ve gotta side with Hams on this one, this kind of argument is “easy pickins”, not to mention a straw man. There are countless ridiculous things believed by actual fundies, mainstream Christians, and apologists alike that we can unload on.

  • mrtastycakes

     Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by power. Religion may or may not be involved. Unfortunately, because of the melding of church and state, there is a significant amount of overlap (e.g. the Church of England, Islamic states, the perception of ‘Christian America’, puritan colonies, and Roman Catholic empires).

    Would the world be free, truthful, and rational without religion? I suggest you consult the Russians, Chinese, Cambodians, Ukrainians, Tibetans, North Koreans, etc . . .

  • Anonymous

    But do you consider the age of the people being polled? Many of our grandparents still believe in the young earth, however many parents and people of the “millennial” generation don’t take Genesis literally. I go to a Christian school, we are taught evolution, and the real age of the earth–meaning not the 6000 earth. You know how you get the 6000 year old earth? You take the generations that are mentioned in the Bible and estimate also based on the ages of the people in the early parts of Genesis. 

  • http://www.thosedarnrobots.com/ Kyle Valenzuela

     Where is the giant spaghetti monster hanging out these days?

  • http://www.thosedarnrobots.com/ Kyle Valenzuela

     Where is the giant spaghetti monster hanging out these days?

  • Sposk

    This is kind of an interesting idea, but the logical creationist argument (haha) is that God can create and redshift photons as he sees fit, thus making it seem like they came from distant objects but were really created at the edge of our observable christian universe.

  • Sposk

    This is kind of an interesting idea, but the logical creationist argument (haha) is that God can create and redshift photons as he sees fit, thus making it seem like they came from distant objects but were really created at the edge of our observable christian universe.

  • Solaria

    A “young universe” doesn’t imply a “small universe”.  Creationists are not arguing that it occurred at a “single point”, but rather “everywhere at the same time”.  It’s the “Big Bang” that requires time to fill the universe as we see it now, “Creation” could have occurred yesterday.

  • Solaria

    A “young universe” doesn’t imply a “small universe”.  Creationists are not arguing that it occurred at a “single point”, but rather “everywhere at the same time”.  It’s the “Big Bang” that requires time to fill the universe as we see it now, “Creation” could have occurred yesterday.

    • Brainmeatjuice

      Right, the whole thing depends on saddling the Genesis literalist with the belief that there was a ‘point of Creation.’ But Genesis says nothing of the sort. Yes, there are people (Christian and non-Christian) who believe that the world is about 6,000 years old, and there are people (Christian and non-Christian) who believe that the world came into being from a single point. But they are not usually the same people. It’s interesting to me that many anti-Christians constantly claim to be more intelligent than the people they hate, but they can’t spot a simple sophism like that.

  • Anonymous

    People don’t cease to be people because they’re a little older. In point of fact, they tend to have more power within their organization if they’re older. Half is half, whether some of them are older or younger. And in the Midwest, the youth believe that same bullshit too, because that’s what they’re being taught.

  • Anonymous

    I think everyone who replied to you missed the part where you said “not saying I believe this crap”. Reading comprehension is such a lost art…

  • Simiantongue

    But if the universe was created at your birth…Then… Oh no!!! We have to make it priority #1 to keep grooveboss alive!!!

  • atheist person

     Man made god, not time.

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

     I’m a Christian and all I know is that the earth was made before our definition of a “day”. Thus, I know the universe was not created in 6 Earth days. the term “day” is relative to the duration a planet takes to rotate on itself. This is not the same on all planets. When God said a “day” I seriously doubt He meant an Earth day. Come one people, God is science. If He said a “day” it was probably relative to where ever He was. He has spent a considerable amount of time enlightening us to the secrets of the universe. We ain’t little kids anymore. The Earth is not flat and the Sun does not rotate around the Earth. Stop hating science because science is Perfect. Our interpretation is the only thing flawed about science. God used science to create the Universe. In the same way, I believe the Bible is perfect, our interpretation is flawed. 

    Furthermore, let me say something to the idiots that thought the world was ending last weekend. When JC’s homies asked when He was coming back (AKA end of the world), JC Himself said “I don’t know, only God knows.” Yes I believe in the trinity, but enough science has enlighten me to understand that though Jesus was God, Jesus was still a human being and certain things were “withheld” from Him in His human form. 

    So let me ask this question to the so-called Christians: Do you think yourself wiser than JC Himself? If He says “it [end of the world] will come like a thief in the night” then it does not make sense that we know the actual day. By proclaiming the actual day the world will end you are calling God and JC liars! 

    God = Science, miracles are like the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. It something you tell kids cuz you think they are too dumb to understand certain concepts. Granted, we are still a young species unable to achieve something as basic as E=mc^2, so there are things we might accept as “miracles”. But once we understand and mature through the study of the phenomena they are no longer miracles.

    Are we in the “End of days”, yes; but how long is that process? it has been almost 2,000 years and we are still in it! who knows if it takes another 2,000 ? God used science to create. The more science we know the more we understand that the Big G is simply a highly powerful being with a great sense of humor who is inlove with His creation.

    Good night people!

  • angelxmoreno

     I’m a Christian and all I know is that the earth was made before our definition of a “day”. Thus, I know the universe was not created in 6 Earth days. the term “day” is relative to the duration a planet takes to rotate on itself. This is not the same on all planets. When God said a “day” I seriously doubt He meant an Earth day. Come on people, God is science. If He said a “day” it was probably relative to where ever He was. He has spent a considerable amount of time enlightening us with the secrets of the universe. We ain’t little kids anymore. The Earth is not flat and the Sun does not rotate around the Earth. Stop hating science because science is Perfect. Our interpretation is the only thing flawed about science. God used science to create the Universe. In the same way, I believe the Bible is perfect, our interpretation is flawed. 

    Furthermore, let me say something to the idiots that thought the world was ending last weekend. When JC’s homies asked when He was coming back (AKA end of the world), JC Himself said “I don’t know, only God knows.” Yes I believe in the trinity, but enough science has enlighten me to understand that though Jesus was God, Jesus was still a human being and certain things were “withheld” from Him in His human form. 

    So let me ask this question to the so-called Christians: Do you think yourself wiser than JC Himself? If He says “it [end of the world] will come like a thief in the night” then it does not make sense that we know the actual day. By proclaiming the actual day the world will end you are calling God and JC liars! 

    God = Science, miracles are like the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. It’s something you tell kids cuz you think they are too dumb to understand certain concepts. Granted, we are still a young species unable to achieve something as basic as E=mc^2, so there are things we might accept as “miracles”. But once we understand and mature through the study of the phenomena they are no longer miracles. They are science.

    Are we in the “End of days”, yes; but how long is that process? it has been almost 2,000 years and we are still in it! who knows if it takes another 2,000 ? God used science to create. The more science we know the more we understand that the Big G is simply a highly powerful being with a great sense of humor who is inlove with His creation.

    Good night people!

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

    don’t confuse God with the fairy tales those fat, ignorant, illogical dudes have brainwashed billions to believe.  they simply state their flawed interpretation. God is the force. Start there. No one can claim there was no beginning. Call the action that started the reaction that led to existence as God. Big bang, evolution, all that can be called God if you believe those things happened. I’m 99% sure they did and I know that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction (thanks to God revealing that to Newton). God can simply be that action that started it all. 

    and BTW, Man defined time and has rewritten its flawed definition many times. We couldn’t even do the math right for leap years. This is the proper definition of a leap year :
    Every year divisible by 4 is a leap year.
    But every year divisible by 100 is not a leap year
    Unless the year is also divisible by 400, then it is still a leap yearwhat the heck? That sounds like Man made to me. I betcha if aliens came they would make fun of us for that :-P

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

    not really. Those were the bootleg Christians. The roman Catholic Church was founded way after there were Christians around. Those barbarians call themselves that which they were not. However, it seems like they even tricked you.

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

    um, dude, so you have traveled the entire universe and have brought back proof that no alien in the entire universe can create new universes? You sound as closed minded as the Catholic Church.

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

    Indeed! 

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

    This article is not crap. Only closed minded people would think of it as crap. God never lied, our interpretation was wrong. However, let us ourselves not be closed minded to the idea that there might be forces and phenomenas that can alter our interpretation of the data we have collected. Anti-time for example.

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

     God never lied. God is science. If science says it took 6 units of time to create the universe and some idiot thinks the unit of time was Earth days then it is not science’s fault.

  • A fed up Christian Scientist

    agreed! Try explaining that in lay man’s terms, lol. 

  • Sfsdfsdfsd

     Diameter of our galaxy is 100,000 light years, not 200,000.

  • Sfsdfsdfsd

     Diameter of our galaxy is 100,000 light years, not 200,000.

  • Juliaguliaa

     i do believe fundamental christian views are very small minded, and that the rapture is not something ‘literally’ that will happen – more of a collective awakening. but i do believe that things can travel faster than the speed of light which is limited to only classical physics. if we approach the quantum realm, things surely travel faster because our consciousness creates the material world, which includes light. the planet can be more mysterious then we realize or give it create for…..and we as humans are a lot more involved in the earth’s creation than we think. 

  • Juliaguliaa

     i do believe fundamental christian views are very small minded, and that the rapture is not something ‘literally’ that will happen – more of a collective awakening. but i do believe that things can travel faster than the speed of light which is limited to only classical physics. if we approach the quantum realm, things surely travel faster because our consciousness creates the material world, which includes light. the planet can be more mysterious then we realize or give it create for…..and we as humans are a lot more involved in the earth’s creation than we think. 

  • Anonymous

    ** failure to rupture

    How disappointed I am that a much ballyhooed rupture of reality did not happen on 21 May.

    Since a typical citizen of xian Ameristan is both a proto-fascist and a fundie know-nothing, I expected to see large tracts of the US mid-west and south depopulated and opened for resettlement by decent human beings.

    • Well, xians have been wrong for the last 2,000+ years. Verily JC himself hath said that he would be back in the lifetimes of those who supposedly knew him.

    Just before JC’s alleged make-over, transfiguration, “he said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.’” Mark 9:1 NIV. (See 9:1-3 NIV.)

    • JC couldn’t have been lying — let’s hear what apologists have opined about JC’s failure. Nevertheless I live in hope that his fundie “children of darkness” will be taken up and removed forever. Is the “rapture” one day finally going to rid Earth of all fundies? Really?

    Let us pray: As they levitate away, can they take with them their damned bibles and filthy tracts?

    Come soon JC! I’ll put some shrimp on the barbie for ya’. Amen,

    the anti_supernaturalist

  • http://www.facebook.com/PandaEuthanasia Sam Breaker Bumpas

    People who deem other people “idiots” are idiots. You, myself and just about everyone around hold onto their own ideas, many of which make absolutely no sense, and many of which are brilliant. Religious faith as an idea alone does not make any one person stupid; it’s how this person uses their ideas. I think we can all agree that using an idea like religion to shut out the beliefs/non-beliefs of others is dumb. That’s called ignorance. The Christians and other religious people who adhere to such behaviors aren’t alone however. ANYBODY who shuts out the ideas of others is ignorant and dumb. Welcome to the club.

  • rick_povero

    ** failure to rupture

    How disappointed I am that a much ballyhooed rupture of reality did not happen on 21 May.

    Since a typical citizen of xian Ameristan is both a proto-fascist and a fundie know-nothing, I expected to see large tracts of the US mid-west and south depopulated and opened for resettlement by decent human beings.

    • Well, xians have been wrong for the last 2,000+ years. Verily JC himself hath said that he would be back in the lifetimes of those who supposedly knew him.

    Just before JC’s alleged make-over, transfiguration, “he said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.’” Mark 9:1 NIV. (See 9:1-3 NIV.)

    • JC couldn’t have been lying — let’s hear what apologists have opined about JC’s failure. Nevertheless I live in hope that his fundie “children of darkness” will be taken up and removed forever. Is the “rapture” one day finally going to rid Earth of all fundies? Really?

    Let us pray: As they levitate away, can they take with them their damned bibles and filthy tracts?

    Come soon JC! I’ll put some shrimp on the barbie for ya’. Amen,

    the anti_supernaturalist

  • Lincolnbobinkon

    Me too, like, maybe, two universes… 

  • Alfred

     “People who deem other people “idiots” are idiots.”

    Hmmmmm circular logic says…Sam “Idiot” Bumpas… and I am an idiot! Sweet Jesus we are all idiots :)

  • Rammus

     Just to let you know your God is not the God that created the Universe. Your God only watched as my God made the Universe. Know the true God and quit being a fake Christian!

  • Daryl Sawatzky

    Jim Walker should amend the “many Christians” to “some Christians”. And while we’re pointing fingers, “many” atheists believe in little green men. So what? Not mature enough admit that there are many great unknowns that science will never prove or disprove? I agree that the universe took millions of years to form the way WE measure time. To a timeless being it could have happened in the wave of a “hand”.  Atheists who take the bible literally – word for word – are just as bad as Christians who so the same.
    The only question you should be asking is this: How are you improving the human condition? If you spend the day online pissing in other people’s porridge, you’re not improving anybody’s condition. You’re just a child throwing mud.

  • Daryl Sawatzky

    Jim Walker should amend the “many Christians” to “some Christians”. And while we’re pointing fingers, “many” atheists believe in little green men. So what? Not mature enough admit that there are many great unknowns that science will never prove or disprove? I agree that the universe took millions of years to form the way WE measure time. To a timeless being it could have happened in the wave of a “hand”.  Atheists who take the bible literally – word for word – are just as bad as Christians who so the same.
    The only question you should be asking is this: How are you improving the human condition? If you spend the day online pissing in other people’s porridge, you’re not improving anybody’s condition. You’re just a child throwing mud.

  • http://www.facebook.com/winterisoverrated Fabian_Ramos

    ever heard of the “circle of life” and how each living organism plays their part in it.
     No act of God huh?

  • Me

    huh?

  • Bahc9292

    Wow. All I’m reading is how religion is dumb while you are claiming atheism as your religion. That’s really stupid. Find something new to bitch about like the situation in lybia? You all are beating a dead horse because the main people posting are closed minded. I am a Christian but I am also an extremely open minded because what I know and experience is limited. Plus if you think about it, what do I have to lose by believing in God? Nothing if He exists or doesn’t. But what do you have to lose by NOT believing in God? Everything if He exists. That is the most logical way to think about it.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3L6DT5DKLAHNFJTOATAX5WDEEY Laura

      Or how some people can’t spell Libya?

  • Bahc9292

    Wow. All I’m reading is how religion is dumb while you are claiming atheism as your religion. That’s really stupid. Find something new to bitch about like the situation in lybia? You all are beating a dead horse because the main people posting are closed minded. I am a Christian but I am also an extremely open minded because what I know and experience is limited. Plus if you think about it, what do I have to lose by believing in God? Nothing if He exists or doesn’t. But what do you have to lose by NOT believing in God? Everything if He exists. That is the most logical way to think about it.

  • AgreeToDisagree

    “Or he could have created the universe as-is in a single instant” This is exactly what my parents believe and what I was taught growing up. They call it the “mature universe” and there is no point in trying to argue logically with people like my parents who have willingly embraced such an illogical concept. But it is a way for them to justify and rationalize all of their other beliefs and it helps them sleep at night in a world that utterly terrifies them. When I go and visit them, we have an agree-to-disagree rule and generally try to avoid such conversations because it is just a waste of time/effort/energy.   

  • Brainmeatjuice

    Right, the whole thing depends on saddling the Genesis literalist with the belief that there was a ‘point of Creation.’ But Genesis says nothing of the sort. Yes, there are people (Christian and non-Christian) who believe that the world is about 6,000 years old, and there are people (Christian and non-Christian) who believe that the world came into being from a single point. But they are not usually the same people. It’s interesting to me that many anti-Christians constantly claim to be more intelligent than the people they hate, but they can’t spot a simple sophism like that.

  • Johnm28

    The writer (blueman) may not realise that Einstein rolls over in his grave each 1st of April, giggling. Science and religion have a lot in common; both claim to create something out of nothing (big bang verses creation), both govern and control societies, both attempt to solve unsolvable questions. The differences are religions try to solve the mysteries of life and the spirit while the Scientist shackles himself with the speed of light.

  • Johnm28

    The writer (blueman) may not realise that Einstein rolls over in his grave each 1st of April, giggling. Science and religion have a lot in common; both claim to create something out of nothing (big bang verses creation), both govern and control societies, both attempt to solve unsolvable questions. The differences are religions try to solve the mysteries of life and the spirit while the Scientist shackles himself with the speed of light.

  • Johnm28

    The phrase “multiple universes” exists but ultimately according to my dictionary, “The universe” encompasses all things, if “nothing could be said to exist then it would be included in “The universe”. The English language does allow for “The universe” to be divided into subsets, each being a universe with defined limitations, such as; the universe of planets, the universe of stars, the universe of galaxies, the universe of Muslims, the Universal Church, and the universe of Sodomites to mention a few of the infinite set. Each set may be three or four dimensional and require multiple  sets of upper and lower limits in its definition.

    To say there are two of “The universe” would be grammatically incorrect and psychologically damaging.
     

  • Michael Hardeman

    well being literal, yes. The atoms in my body are just as old as the atoms in her body, but i assume that you mean in human years so… no. Time is independent of perception, but perception is the only way for us to percieve the universe. Check out the double slit experiment to see how perception effect the universe.

  • Johnm28

    this is an interesting concept. You age can be determined by carbon dating; does this mean that the carbon atom changes over time and and begins at birth and how come a tooth taken from a four year old musk rat may carbon date at 350 years?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5CP7ED2OJWP2WRKAIRKKWFU6EQ Choice

    then who created “god” ?

  • Padraig

    “God=santa claus” this is why christians cannot understand why their children fall from faith, they bring them up to believe in santa and they find out at an early age that he doesn’t exist, so if they can’t believe in santa anymore why should they believe in God, an equally invisible entity

  • Padraig

    class!

  • Mr Willow

    Unless god is Time.

  • Mr Willow

    If you don’t agree with it and it doesn’t affect you? Let it be and make your own.

  • Apptechnz

    - Presumably you also reject the big-bang theory’s “saving” hypothesis of “Inflation” as ludicrous and worth ridiculing? Hand in hand with that you’d be certain that the speed of light is constant and always has been and that the “fine structure constant” is in fact both constant and isotropic. (Google knows).

    The incorrectness of any of those assumptions does not tell us especially much about Christianity, but they do demonstrate the paucity of the current “argument”.- Had / have the current universe(s) existed in some form forever? Without loss of intellectual integrity explain how ,in terms that an averagely intelligent person can follow and be happy to believe. OR- Did the current universe(s) come into existence ‘Ex Nihilo”? Explain how this is conceivable by any reasonable feat of human conception, as above.
    – In light of our  complete inability to form a statistically plausible explanation of abiogenesis, why is not a metaphysical explanation the only one that is intellectually satisfying, no matter how much this may upset our sensibilties and existing paradigms? CF Francis Crick’s  [!!!!!!] book “Life itself” where he proposes directed panspermia as a means of explaining terrestial biogenesis Copared to such Santa Claus looks positively solid :-).

    ie Do you want truth or comfortable delusion? It’s easy to rubbish, without even much attempt at detail or fairness, concepts that thoroughly shake up our world view. But failure to admit that there are aspects of the universe which make no sense scientifically and which can not be explained away with intellectual integrity, may leave people “comfortable” but barred from seeking for truth by their own delusions. If people think the universe makes sense they haven’t looked carefully enough.                 Russell McMahon

  • Apptechnz

    - Presumably you also reject the big-bang theory’s “saving” hypothesis of “Inflation” as ludicrous and worth ridiculing? Hand in hand with that you’d be certain that the speed of light is constant and always has been and that the “fine structure constant” is in fact both constant and isotropic. (Google knows).

    The incorrectness of any of those assumptions does not tell us especially much about Christianity, but they do demonstrate the paucity of the current “argument”.- Had / have the current universe(s) existed in some form forever? Without loss of intellectual integrity explain how ,in terms that an averagely intelligent person can follow and be happy to believe. OR- Did the current universe(s) come into existence ‘Ex Nihilo”? Explain how this is conceivable by any reasonable feat of human conception, as above.
    – In light of our  complete inability to form a statistically plausible explanation of abiogenesis, why is not a metaphysical explanation the only one that is intellectually satisfying, no matter how much this may upset our sensibilties and existing paradigms? CF Francis Crick’s  [!!!!!!] book “Life itself” where he proposes directed panspermia as a means of explaining terrestial biogenesis Copared to such Santa Claus looks positively solid :-).

    ie Do you want truth or comfortable delusion? It’s easy to rubbish, without even much attempt at detail or fairness, concepts that thoroughly shake up our world view. But failure to admit that there are aspects of the universe which make no sense scientifically and which can not be explained away with intellectual integrity, may leave people “comfortable” but barred from seeking for truth by their own delusions. If people think the universe makes sense they haven’t looked carefully enough.                 Russell McMahon

  • Dave DelaGardelle

    Adorably cute article in its ignorance, biased uneducated-ness, and blind pride.
    Nice try though… ;)

    Next time do research. Maybe wake up to the fact that there are thousands of scientists around the world who are Christians, yet believe in a rational form of theistic evolution:
    http://www.reasons.org/

    Not to mention the fact that scripture itself speaks of the universe as far more vast than most atheistic scientists even do today…
    oh the irony… :)

  • Dave DelaGardelle

    Adorably cute and laughable article in its ignorance, immaturity, and disturbing lack of education.
    Nice try though… :)

    Next time maybe do some research and know what your talking about. Acknowledge the fact that there are tens of thousands of respected scientists in the world who are Christians, yet hold a rational view of theistic evolution with a vast understanding of the universe:
    http://www.reasons.org/

    Not to mention the fact that the Bible itself talks about & acknowledges the vastness of the universe even more than most bitter hilariously narrow minded atheistic scientists talk of it today.

    Oh the irony… ;)

  • Dave DelaGardelle

    Adorably cute and laughable article in its ignorance, immaturity, and disturbing lack of education.
    Nice try though… :)

    Next time maybe do some research and know what your talking about. Acknowledge the fact that there are tens of thousands of respected scientists in the world who are Christians, yet hold a rational view of theistic evolution with a vast understanding of the universe:
    http://www.reasons.org/

    Not to mention the fact that the Bible itself talks about & acknowledges the vastness of the universe even more than most bitter hilariously narrow minded atheistic scientists talk of it today.

    Oh the irony… ;)

  • Dave DelaGardelle

    Adorably cute and laughable article in its ignorance, immaturity, and disturbing lack of education.
    Nice try though… :)

    Next time maybe do some research and know what your talking about. Acknowledge the fact that there are tens of thousands of respected scientists in the world who are Christians, yet hold a rational view of theistic evolution with a vast understanding of the universe:
    http://www.reasons.org/

    Not to mention the fact that the Bible itself talks about & acknowledges the vastness of the universe even more than most bitter hilariously narrow minded atheistic scientists talk of it today.

    Oh the irony… ;)

  • Jedi

    Try not to mix God with Roman Catholic and human.

  • Jedi

    No, that is what you say. That is not what the Holy word says.

  • Jedi

    I know what you are talking about and part of the dispensations. Rightly dividing the truth-stewardship.

  • Jedi

    I know what you are talking about and part of the dispensations. Rightly dividing the truth-stewardship.

  • Jedi

    I know what you are talking about and part of the dispensations. Rightly dividing the truth-stewardship.

  • Jedi

    Yep, “the way of Cain”.

  • Jedi

    You don’t think for yourself. Satan is in control of the thought atmosphere while one is spirituality dead.  If you read the Holy Word as a spirit filled person from the HS, you would understand that.

  • Jedi

    How can one judge when one does not understand? John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” …. Jesus also said, tell of the good news. He NEVER said  convert by the sword.  Luke 4:43 But he said, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3L6DT5DKLAHNFJTOATAX5WDEEY Laura

    Or how some people can’t spell Libya?

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