All Non-African People Are Part Neanderthal

Neanderthal child

Reconstruction of a Neanderthal child.

Interesting article from Alasdair Wilkins on io9.com:

The evidence has been mounting for years that early humans and Neanderthals interbred, but now it’s pretty much a certainty. Part of the X chromosome found in people from outside Africa originally comes from our Neanderthal cousins.

It’s kind of amazing to think that, as recently as just a few years ago, the scientific consensus was that humans and Neanderthals were completely separate species and probably didn’t interbreed. Since then, a ton of new evidence has come to light to change that position, and now new research from Damian Labuda of the University of Montreal more or less completes this big reversal.

Neanderthals, one of the last extant hominid species other than our own, left Africa somewhere between 400,000 and 800,000 years ago and settled mostly in Europe until they went extinct 30,000 years ago. Early modern humans left Africa about 80,000 to 50,000 years ago, meaning they overlapped with Neanderthals in time and place for at least 20,000 years. On an evolutionary time scale, that’s not a ton of time, but could it be enough to leave lasting evidence of human/Neanderthal interbreeding?

Read More from Alasdair Wilkins on io9.com

161 Comments on "All Non-African People Are Part Neanderthal"

  1. Rex Vestri | Jul 24, 2011 at 8:12 pm |

    Apparently our distant ancestors were gettin’ themselves some of that stanky Neanderthal pussy after all. ROFL

  2. Rex Vestri | Jul 24, 2011 at 4:12 pm |

    Apparently our distant ancestors were gettin’ themselves some of that stanky Neanderthal pussy after all. ROFL

    • Hadrian999 | Jul 24, 2011 at 4:34 pm |

      everyone is human when the lights are off

      • Anarchy Pony | Jul 24, 2011 at 7:56 pm |

        The lineage is technically human all the way back to, I think, Homo Habilis. Ancestors before that are not technically “human”.

      • Anarchy Pony | Jul 24, 2011 at 7:56 pm |

        The lineage is technically human all the way back to, I think, Homo Habilis. Ancestors before that are not technically “human”.

      • Bigdickmegaherz | Jul 25, 2011 at 11:52 am |

        Not me.

  3. Hadrian999 | Jul 24, 2011 at 8:34 pm |

    everyone is human when the lights are off

  4. You’re all neanderthals as far as I’m concerned.  }:)

  5. You’re all neanderthals as far as I’m concerned.  }:)

  6. Anonymous | Jul 24, 2011 at 9:10 pm |

    i have long suspected some of us have a gene that predisposes them to regress evolutionarily .
    seems like they all seem to congregate around the same banner- fox news.

  7. Jin The Ninja | Jul 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm |

    i have long suspected some of us have a gene that predisposes them to regress evolutionarily .
    seems like they all seem to congregate around the same banner- fox news.

  8. Hadrian999 | Jul 24, 2011 at 9:27 pm |

    I think you’re way out of line talking about neanderthals like that

  9. Anarchy Wolf | Jul 24, 2011 at 9:57 pm |

    Yeah, that’s very unfair, as part neanderthal I take exception to that.

  10. Anonymous | Jul 24, 2011 at 10:03 pm |

    😛

  11. Anonymous | Jul 24, 2011 at 10:03 pm |

    probably….:P

  12. Anarchy Wolf | Jul 24, 2011 at 11:56 pm |

    The lineage is technically human all the way back to, I think, Homo Habilis. Ancestors before that are not technically “human”.

  13. So true…proven fact, man…overwhelming majority of WWF, Fox News and Nascar fans…99.8% Neanderthal.

    But srsly…fascinating implications for anthropology. Love it!

  14. So true…proven fact, man…overwhelming majority of WWF, Fox News and Nascar fans…99.8% Neanderthal.

    But srsly…fascinating implications for anthropology. Love it!

    • Saxon Wolfcock | Jul 24, 2011 at 10:13 pm |

      Whats wrong with the WWF? They may not be carrying the torch across the line, but they do alot more for animals and the environment than alot of other entities. The Fox News and Nascar I can understand though.

  15. So true…proven fact, man…overwhelming majority of WWF, Fox News and Nascar fans…99.8% Neanderthal.

    But srsly…fascinating implications for anthropology. Love it!

  16. Kfdjghkd7 | Jul 25, 2011 at 12:31 am |

    I think the 4% Neanderthal is all in my dick, because it’s humongous.

  17. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 12:48 am |

    Sorry white supremacists, seems everyone who’s not of pure African decent is a dirty, dirty mongrel.

  18. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 12:48 am |

    Sorry white supremacists, seems everyone who’s not of pure African decent is a dirty, dirty mongrel.

  19. dumbsaint | Jul 24, 2011 at 8:48 pm |

    Sorry white supremacists, seems everyone who’s not of pure African descent is a dirty, dirty mongrel.

    • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 24, 2011 at 8:55 pm |

      So you are suggesting that Neanderthals were not extremely intelligent?  If IQ is at all hereditary, that means that the genes which gave rise to written language, complex architecture, and all the doodads of modernity came from these dirty Neanderthal mongrels.  Use your brain and think some more.

      • dumbsaint | Jul 24, 2011 at 8:59 pm |

        That was all you buddy. All I said was that white supremacists are wrong. But if you want to take the opportunity to imply that Africans have lower IQ because they don’t share ancestry with neanderthals then fuck you.

        • I can’t think of a more ignorant means of self justification than the whole “if you don’t agree with me then clearly you are saying the exact opposite of what you just said”. 

          Also you said nothing about white supremacists being wrong. You said that non africans were dirty mongrels. So who’s the racist here then? Well that would probably be the guy who’s trying to judge people for who their ancestors fucked so far back that no one can realistically trace it. Find a mirror buddy. There’s your racist.

          • dumbsaint | Jul 24, 2011 at 9:31 pm |

            “Dirty” as opposed to “Pure”. White supremacists love to harp on about purity of blood when they infact are mongrels themselves. Making them hypocrites. I’m a pale skinned guy, I embrace potentially being a dirty mongrel. I also think that implying that Africans lack modernity due to having low IQs reeks of something.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:25 am |

            I’m sure you said “dirty mongrels” with the best of intentions.  I misread you completely.  You never said “stupid mongrels.”  You just responded like one.

          • dumbsaint | Jul 25, 2011 at 4:13 am |

            I’d be worried about your constant appraisals of my intelligence if they didn’t come from a guy that thinks the ability to create architecture is inherited genetically. Try not being racist and insulting if you expect a fair response from someone, genius.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 4:41 am |

            I never said that, although the implication was there.  I have oftentimes
            pondered the question, and while I will occasionally explain the human
            biodiversity argument to friends on the left, I have only ever argued that the
            facts are still too sketchy to draw a firm conclusion.

             

            I was simply speaking up on behalf of our dearly departed ancestors.

             

            It is clear that written language, elaborate architecture, and modern
            technology have historically been produced by the descendants of
            Neanderthal-fuckers, which perks my curiosity.  I find the economic and colonial
            arguments to be as sketchy as the genetic theories for why human populations in
            the aggregate seem to have varying propensities in athletics, written language,
            mathematics, and allegedly, sexual virility.  I am left curious–certainly not
            convinced in any direction.

             

            You are obviously passionate about the subjects of IQ and racial purity. 
            Please, tell me why the bastard sons of Neanderthals do so well on math
            tests.
             

          • dumbsaint | Jul 25, 2011 at 5:39 am |

            Only 9% of the ‘bastard sons of neanderthals’ as you put it actually have neanderthal ancestry so the premise is flawed from the outset. I’d look to the numerous environmental, cultural and economic factors to explain the math test results before I put it down to race. The same goes for all your earlier examples of supposed neander-phile supremacy.

          • Tuna Ghost | Jul 26, 2011 at 2:19 pm |

            Just to be clear, are you seriously trying to draw a casual connection between race and math skills?  That’s, um, not something I’d advise doing.  

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 26, 2011 at 3:44 pm |

            I am not arguing that IQ is genetic here, and honestly, I would like to see any well-referenced alternative theories that better explain the statistics.  They are few and far between because those who doubt genetic theories are complascent and rarely put together solid research, which is a shame.

            National statistics are there.  Global statistics are there.  To ignore them or just say “You can’t talk about that, it’s racist” is shamefully lazy.

            Last week our local paper had a front page story whose subtitle read Minorities lag behind in AP studies, then below was a graph which showed blacks and Hispanics far below whites–and all three were far below Asians.  Now think about that as you reread that headline.  Misleading?  Tip-toes getting sore?

            If you have any insights, school me.

          • Economics.

          • Civilization  simply “seems” to start in the middle east because that is were European archaeologists (using the bible as a map) looked for it first. What you’re really talking about is the record of material culture. Outside of Egypt, Archaeology in Africa has sorely been neglected. One must also remember that materials must “SURVIVE”. If a culture uses materials that biodegrade, which is more likely not just the further back you go in time, but the further you get from the arid desert, they do not survive. This is part of the reason there is a great gap in European history. They built every damn thing out of wood, until they didn’t, at which point they left us something to dig up.

          • Also you must remember that at the end of the last ice age we lost millions of square miles of coastal land. Any coastal culture that may have existed lie buried miles off shore.  

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 29, 2011 at 4:56 am |

            I suppose we could dig to the center of the Earth and never find a trace of the beginning.  History is a reconstruction, that is certain.  We only have faded snapshots to work with.

          • Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 1:41 am |

            As Plop so eloquently suggests, economics is one reason.  The statistics do seem to suggest something that no one wants to say, something along the lines of “minorities just aren’t as smart as whites”, but that isn’t telling the whole story.  

            Take my hometown of Detroit, for example.  It is predominantly black, and the test scores there are pretty shitty.  Does this mean black people just plain aren’t good at book-larnin’?  Not at all.  Back in the 60’s, there were terrible riots stemming from a mostly white police force overseeing mostly black neighborhoods, and the resulting the race riots were so bad the national guard was called in.  This lead to what folks call “white flight”–all the white folks moved out to the suburbs and took their money with them.  Ever since that time, poverty in Detroit grew and grew until it reached the present state where a full third of the population is below the poverty line and in a poll five years ago, almost half the residents said they would move out of Detroit if they could afford it.  Unemployment in Detroit (Michigan in general, but Detroit skewed the statistics pretty heavily) was a huge problem before the economy went down the toilet, and now its even worse.  The city is bankrupt and the last mayor, a thug named Kwame Kilpatrick, didn’t help anything with his embezzlement.

            What does this have to do with test scores?  Well the school system in Detroit is just plain broken.  The city has no money to pay teachers a decent wage, and it seems every few years they go on strike because they’re being paid shit to teach some of the hardest kids in the country.  The schools can’t pay them more because they just don’t have the money, which means the schools don’t have the proper materials and more and more schools close every year.  This leads to over-crowding in the classrooms, which has a direct effect on the quality of education per child.  Combine this with the arrest record of the average black male in Detroit, the broken families that result from this, and you have a recipe for students that see no reason to stay in school and a school system that can’t give them any.  No materials, fewer and fewer teachers each year, bigger and bigger class size, and you have test scores and general education levels dropping like a goddam stone.  

            This problem is not unique to Detroit–it happens in predominantly minority communities all over the country.  

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 29, 2011 at 4:54 am |

            Your insight from a place where “minority” is rendered meaningless by regional demographics is quite interesting.  I can only imagine the subtle details you have picked up over the years.  I have always held the opinion is worth a thousand global studies.

            It is late in the night and late in the thread, but rest assured that your response is food for thought.

          • Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 1:44 am |

            P.S.  You mentioned asian students out-performing blacks and hispanics.  Take a look at the average income for Asian families, how many of these families have a two-parent home, and what neighborhoods these families are from and you’ll notice a pretty distinct pattern.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 5:07 am |

            You edited your comment.  It looks better with that last sentence, though I never tested as a genius.

          • dumbsaint | Jul 25, 2011 at 5:31 am |

            Thanks. You should have seen the edit I did on my first comment to you.

          • Ever hear of the concept of Hybrid Vigour? The offspring of 2 different groups tend to be stronger in various ways over the original parents… so these dirty mongrels could potentially be superior in ways. Not to support white supremacy; just to give them fodder to play with (hey If we got white supremacist talking in real evolutionary terms, that would be a slight step forward… then they might even finally drop their weakening “Purity” desire).

          • dumbsaint | Jul 26, 2011 at 1:11 am |

            There you go. My son’s mother is Kenyan (I’m Dutch) and he is a total trooper. Besides chicken pox and the odd sniffle he’s barely been sick a day since he was a baby.

          • Hehe yeah that makes sense. Whats funny is hybridization is essentially the “cure” for inbreeding. Purebred dogs commonly have tons of congenital disorders, but interbreed two different purebreeds and you get a mutt that is missing most if not all of those recessive genetic problems.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 26, 2011 at 4:33 pm |

            Speaking of Hybrid Vigor, it is interesting that civilization began at the geographic borders between the differentiated races of Europe, Africa, and Asia.  I have often wondered if the novel combinations that must have occured at those meeting places–Ancient Egypt, the Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean of Ancient Greece–created a surge in human potential.  That is, if genes count for anything in the realm of intelligence.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 26, 2011 at 4:39 pm |

            Now I understand why you were so offended.  I get touchy like that when people claim that my own familial line is somehow degenerate–ie. white-bashing “anti-racists.”

            Aggregate statistics do not imply much, if anything, about individuals.  Certain individuals always rocket ahead of the group.  Keep that in mind.

          • dumbsaint | Jul 26, 2011 at 8:11 pm |

            Class act mate. Aside from my kid my entire family is white – I have 0 issues with anyone on the basis of skin pigmentation. I abhorred racism a long time before my boy came into the world.
            I made a joke at the expense of white supremacists and you took it personal. My purpose was to have a laugh at the expense of the very few people that think purity of race and blood means a damn thing. That’s it. The fact that you were offended by that speaks to something.

        • Bigdickmegaherz | Jul 24, 2011 at 9:29 pm |

          No fuck you for being a smart ass and not making a clear point.

      • you Neanderthals kill sometimes… lol! Research the oldest written language bro… then find out where it originated from… same thing with architecture… mathematics, etc. Get that tick behind you ear while your at it! 

        • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 1:17 am |

          Cuneiform?  The Middle East.  Neanderthals probably hit that.  Pyramids?  Northern Africa, where the Neanderthal’s dirty seed had most likely been sown thousands of years before.  Mathematics?  I’m all ears on that one.

          As for that tick, how did you know?  Weird, man, all cosmic and shit.  Uncle/Daddy brings them in with the other varmints.  Did that tickle your stereotype-bone?  Yeah, mine too.

          • Definitely tickled my with that fancy that 1… lol! Ohh n i sensed the tick as soon as i read your comment… we’re like dirty neanderthal twins bro!  Siamese man.. siamese!!! Ohh n to your questinon:The most ancient mathematical texts available to man are Plimpton 322…  Which are 4500-year old clay tablets showing multiplication and division problems. The 2nd oldest are the 3600 year old Mesopotamian tablets; which show tables of squares, cubes, reciprocals, and even logarithms. POW POW POW… you can pull up your pants now. Im surprised you didn’t know about Plimpton 322… because you mentioned the Cuneiform script, which came from that same people….

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 26, 2011 at 3:50 pm |

            I am not very good at math.  Therefore my calculations that your use of a brutal sodomy metaphor for providing Googlable facts on ancient math show you to be a closet gay rapist.  But I always neglect to carry the 1, so I may be off by a mark or two.

            So, Plimpton 322 came from Mesopotamia.  I bet the Neanderthals pumped some seed into the Fertile Crescent.  Care to wager?

          • Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 2:14 am |

            This may be me looking to hard, but it seems like you’re pretty set on taking the accomplishments of colored folks and placing them on the shoulders of the white folks.  That’s not cool, buddy.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 29, 2011 at 5:04 am |

            Many “colord folks'” accomplishments do rest upon the shoulders of white folks.  You and I both know that.

            Look at it this way:  Rock n’ roll was utterly dependent upon black rhythms, black sorrows, black lyrics, and black wildness.  Without blacks, rock n’ roll would sound like an Irish cracker slapping old potatos against a whiskey bottle and grumbling about shitty England.  We can all agree that black soul was necessary for rock n’ roll, right?

            So why would we have a hard time agreeing that the advancement of mathematics disproportionately rests on the shoulders of Asians and Jews?

            Again, I am open to alternative ideas, but it sure seems like the Asians and Jews have a knack for numbers and literary endeavors.  Whether math and science are superior endeavors is in the eye of the beholder.  Who excels at such skills is in the eye of the graph.

          • Tuna Ghost | Aug 1, 2011 at 6:37 am |

            So why would we have a hard time agreeing that the advancement of mathematics disproportionately rests on the shoulders of Asians and Jews?
            Because as history shows us, Algebra and a lot of Geometry came from the middle east, calculus from europe, and the Greeks helped quite a bit in the Geometry section.  Where are you getting this “Jews and Asians” bit from?  It sounds like bald stereotyping with nothing to back it up.  I explained earlier that if you take a look Asian families in america, their economic situation and the sort of communities they live in, and the stats will make sense.  On the other side of the world, if you look at the scholastic culture of Asian countries and the results also become clear.  

      • You do know what a mongrel is right?

      • Well actually, if you believe this theory, Neanderthals left Africa before the rise of written language, and complex architecture, which all started in Africa.  The truth has to come to light someday.

      • Anarchy Pony | Jul 26, 2011 at 12:24 am |

        Uh, IQ and complexity are not necessarily linked, and the rise of civilization and all its useless trappings came about not from great intelligence but from great complexification. And it has been the single greatest mistake that humankind has ever made.

  20. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 12:55 am |

    So you are suggesting that Neanderthals were not extremely intelligent?  If IQ is at all hereditary, that means that the genes which gave rise to written language, complex architecture, and all the doodads of modernity came from these dirty Neanderthal mongrels.  Use your brain and think some more.

  21. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 12:59 am |

    That was all you buddy. All I said was that white supremacists are wrong. But if you want to take the opportunity to imply that Africans have lower IQ because they don’t share ancestry with neanderthals then fuck you very much cuntface.

  22. I can’t think of a more ignorant means of self justification than the whole “if you don’t agree with me then clearly you are saying the exact opposite of what you just said”. 

    Also you said nothing about white supremacists being wrong. You said that non africans were dirty mongrels. So who’s the racist here then? Well that would probably be the guy who’s trying to judge people for who their ancestors fucked so far back that no one can realistically trace it. Find a mirror buddy. There’s your racist.

  23. homo erectus | Jul 25, 2011 at 1:21 am |

    what does this mean in terms of (genetic) difference between africans and the rest of the world?

  24. homo erectus | Jul 24, 2011 at 9:21 pm |

    what does this mean in terms of (genetic) difference between africans and the rest of the world?

    • I'm on to you. | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:37 am |

      Nothing. You’re scraping that black people barrel HARD, I can smell it. Don’t hurt yourself.

    • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 5:05 am |

      Oddly enough, despite the lack of Neanderthal genes, populations in Africa show the widest genetic variety.  That would make sense if Africa is the origin, because the various bottlenecks would come from relatively homogenous populations.  Presumably, it also means you won’t find many Zulus with ridged brows.

    • People from African Descent are Human Beings and people  not from African descent are Neanderthals

  25. Bigdickmegaherz | Jul 25, 2011 at 1:29 am |

    No fuck you for being a smart ass and not making a clear point.

  26. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 1:31 am |

    “Dirty” as opposed to “Pure”. White supremacists love to harp on about purity of blood when they infact are mongrels themselves. Making them hypocrites. I’m a pale skinned guy, I embrace potentially being a dirty mongrel. I also think that implying that African’s lack modernity due to having low IQs reeks of something.

  27. Saxon Wolfcock | Jul 25, 2011 at 2:13 am |

    Whats wrong with the WWF? They may not be carrying the torch across the line, but they do alot more for animals and the environment than alot of other entities. The Fox News and Nascar I can understand though.

  28. Neanderthals
    left Africa somewhere between 400,000 and 800,000 years ago.

    Wouldn’t that make Neanderthals African too?

  29. BuzzCoastin | Jul 24, 2011 at 10:51 pm |

    Neanderthals
    left Africa somewhere between 400,000 and 800,000 years ago.

    Wouldn’t that make Neanderthals African too?

    • dumbsaint | Jul 25, 2011 at 4:27 am |

      The idea is that neanderthals didn’t start crossbreeding until after they migrated.

      • BuzzCoastin | Jul 25, 2011 at 4:38 am |

        Right, so Neanderthals (Africans) crossbred with modern humans (Africans.) So which of us is not African in origin?  It seems like the headline is designed to do some race baiting.  I think the headline is trying to imply that modern Africans do not have Neanderthal genes, but the article doesn’t say any such thing.

        • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 4:59 am |

          By most accounts, we are all African in origin.  It goes like this:
          There were proto-people in Africa 800,000 years ago.  A few left for the north.  Their offspring underwent a few dramatic evolutionary changes over the next 720,000 years, turning them into red-headed Neanderthals.
          80,000 years ago, a few more people–now full-fledged homo sapens–left Africa.  They were either seduced or raped by the Neanderthals, unless they did the raping themselves.  We’ll say that they used romance and roses. 
          These new human/Neanderthal hybrids went on to populate the entire Earth–except for Africa.  According to the study cited above, the mongrelized gene never made it south of the Sahara.  As dumbsaint says, they remained pure.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jul 25, 2011 at 5:01 am |

            That should be homo sapiensHomo sapens are just sapens who get it on with members of the same sex.

  30. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:07 am |

    There is still so much to understand about human ancestry and what it is to be human. I think that future discoveries will continue to unravel our conceptions of race and maybe even add new but probably irrelevant genetic differences for people to be upset about…

  31. MoralDrift | Jul 24, 2011 at 11:07 pm |

    There is still so much to understand about human ancestry and what it is to be human. I think that future discoveries will continue to unravel our conceptions of race and maybe even add new but probably irrelevant genetic differences for people to be upset about…

  32. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:41 am |

    VoxMagi is being old school. He’s talking about wrestling.

  33. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 4:21 am |

    you Neanderthals kill sometimes… lol! Research the oldest written language bro… then find out where it originated from… same thing with architecture… mathematics, etc. Get that tick behind you ear while your at it! 

  34. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 5:17 am |

    Cuneiform?  The Middle East.  Neanderthals probably hit that.  Pyramids?  Northern Africa, where the Neanderthal’s dirty seed had most likely been sown thousands of years before.  Mathematics?  I’m all ears on that one.

    As for that tick, how did you know?  Weird, man, all cosmic and shit.  Uncle/Daddy brings them in with the other varmints.  Did that tickle your stereotype-bone?  Yeah, mine too.

  35. Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle.

  36. Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle.

  37. You do know what a mongrel is right?

  38. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 7:25 am |

    I’m sure you said “dirty mongrels” with the best of intentions.  I misread you completely.  You never said “stupid mongrels.”  You just responded like one.

  39. I'm on to you. | Jul 25, 2011 at 7:37 am |

    Nothing. You’re scraping that black people barrel HARD, I can smell it. Don’t hurt yourself.

  40. So there is hope in humanity, after live in a time such as violent, full of plagues and death they have overcome their differences and start to shag one another!

  41. So there is hope in humanity, after live in a time such as violent, full of plagues and death they have overcome their differences and start to shag one another!

    • Tuna Ghost | Aug 1, 2011 at 6:38 am |

      Every time humanity gets itself into trouble, I gotta fuck our way out of it.  Figures

  42. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 8:13 am |

    I’d be worried about your constant appraisals of my intelligence if they didn’t come from a guy that thinks the ability to create architecture is inherited genetically.

  43. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 8:27 am |

    The idea is that neanderthals didn’t start crossbreeding until after they migrated.

  44. Right, so Neanderthals (Africans) crossbred with modern humans (Africans.) So which of us is not African in origin?  It seems like the headline is designed to do some race baiting.  I think the headline is trying to imply that modern Africans do not have Neanderthal genes, but the article doesn’t say any such thing.

  45. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 8:41 am |

    I never said that, although the implication was there.  I have oftentimes
    pondered the question, and while I will occasionally explain the human
    biodiversity argument to friends on the left, I have only ever argued that the
    facts are still too sketchy to draw a firm conclusion.

     

    I was simply speaking up on behalf of our dearly departed ancestors.

     

    It is clear that written language, elaborate architecture, and modern
    technology have historically been produced by the descendants of
    Neanderthal-fuckers, which perks my curiosity.  I find the economic and colonial
    arguments to be as sketchy as the genetic theories for why human populations in
    the aggregate seem to have varying propensities in athletics, written language,
    mathematics, and allegedly, sexual virility.  I am left curious–certainly not
    convinced in any direction.

     

    You are obviously passionate about the subjects of IQ and racial purity. 
    Please, tell me why the bastard sons of Neanderthals do so well on math
    tests.
     

  46. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 8:59 am |

    By most accounts, we are all African in origin.  It goes like this:
    There were proto-people in Africa 800,000 years ago.  A few left for the north.  Their offspring underwent a few dramatic evolutionary changes over the next 720,000 years, turning them into red-headed Neanderthals.
    80,000 years ago, a few more people–now full-fledged homo sapens–left Africa.  They were either seduced or raped by the Neanderthals, unless they did the raping themselves.  We’ll say that they used romance and roses. 
    These new human/Neanderthal hybrids went on to populate the entire Earth–except for Africa.  According to the study cited above, the mongrelized gene never made it south of the Sahara.  As dumbsaint says, they remained pure.

  47. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 9:01 am |

    That should be homo sapiensHomo sapens are just sapens who get it on with members of the same sex.

  48. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 9:05 am |

    Oddly enough, despite the lack of Neanderthal genes, populations in Africa show the widest genetic variety.  That would make sense if Africa is the origin, because the various bottlenecks would come from relatively homogenous populations.  Presumably, it also means you won’t find many Zulus with ridged brows.

  49. JoJoDancer | Jul 25, 2011 at 9:07 am |

    You edited your comment.  It looks better with that last sentence, though I never tested as a genius.

  50. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 9:31 am |

    Thanks. You should have seen the edit I did on my first comment to you.

  51. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 9:39 am |

    Only 9% of the ‘bastard sons of neanderthals’ as you put it actually have neanderthal ancestry so the premise is flawed from the outset. I’d look to the numerous environmental, cultural and economic factors to explain the math test results before I put it down to race. The same goes for all your earlier examples of supposed neander-phile supremacy.

  52. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 10:48 am |

    Enough of this discrimination and anti-neanderthal propaganda. I think it’s time to stand proud and recognize our honorable Neanderthal roots. We’re taking it back!

  53. Well actually, if you believe this theory, Neanderthals left Africa before the rise of written language, and complex architecture, which all started in Africa.  The truth has to come to light someday.

  54. Anonymous | Jul 25, 2011 at 1:56 pm |

    I got $31.68 for a XBOX 360 and my mom got a 17 inch Dell laptop for $95.84 being delivered to our house tomorrow by FedEX. I will never again pay expensive retail prices at stores. I even sold a 46 inch HDTV to my boss for $650 and it only cost me $53.79 to get. Here is the website we are using to get all this stuff GrabPenny.com

  55. Bigdickmegaherz | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:52 pm |

    Not me.

  56. Bigdickmegaherz | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:54 pm |

    …. Wow… project your own racism much…

  57. Something tells me that over the next twenty years or so, the image of a neanderthal is going to change from “brutish cave man” to “sophisticated early human,” and non-neanderthal early humans will become viewed more like cave men. That way, white people can continue to think of themselves as elevated above blacks, who would not have the genes of these sophisticated early humans, and thus not been raised out of the barbarism of their ancestors.

    Might be wrong, but this kind of stuff has happened before–white people always find a way to twist reality and their minds into supporting their positions of undeserved privilege and power.

  58. Something tells me that over the next twenty years or so, the image of a neanderthal is going to change from “brutish cave man” to “sophisticated early human,” and non-neanderthal early humans will become viewed more like cave men. That way, white people can continue to think of themselves as elevated above blacks, who would not have the genes of these sophisticated early humans, and thus not been raised out of the barbarism of their ancestors.

    Might be wrong, but this kind of stuff has happened before–white people always find a way to twist reality and their minds into supporting their positions of undeserved privilege and power.

    • I’ve been seeing occasional articles theorizing that Neanderthals were religious and artistic for a couple of years now.

  59. I think it’s called “making a joke.”  This might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

  60. I’ve been seeing occasional articles theorizing that Neanderthals were religious and artistic for a couple of years now.

  61. “You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. “I believe God created me in one day” Yeah, looks like He rushed it.” Bill Hicks

  62. jasonpaulhayes | Jul 25, 2011 at 3:01 pm |

    “You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. “I believe God created me in one day” Yeah, looks like He rushed it.” Bill Hicks

  63. Ever hear of the concept of Hybrid Vigour? The offspring of 2 different groups tend to be stronger in various ways over the original parents… so these dirty mongrels could potentially be superior in ways. Not to support white supremacy; just to give them fodder to play with (hey If we got white supremacist talking in real evolutionary terms, that would be a slight step forward… then they might even finally drop their weakening “Purity” desire).

  64. Ever hear of the concept of Hybrid Vigour? The offspring of 2 different groups tend to be stronger in various ways over the original parents… so these dirty mongrels could potentially be superior in ways. Not to support white supremacy; just to give them fodder to play with (hey If we got white supremacist talking in real evolutionary terms, that would be a slight step forward… then they might even finally drop their weakening “Purity” desire).

  65. Anarchy Wolf | Jul 26, 2011 at 3:01 am |

    Finally something to agree on! 

  66. Anarchy Wolf | Jul 26, 2011 at 4:24 am |

    Uh, IQ and complexity are not necessarily linked, and the rise of civilization and all its useless trappings came about not from great intelligence but from great complexification. And it has been the single greatest mistake that humankind has ever made.

  67. Anonymous | Jul 26, 2011 at 5:11 am |

    My son’s mother is Kenyan (I’m Dutch) and he is a total trooper. Besides chicken pox and the odd sniffle he’s barely been sick a day since he was a baby.

  68. Hehe yeah that makes sense. Whats funny is hybridization is essentially the “cure” for inbreeding. Purebred dogs commonly have tons of congenital disorders, but interbreed two different purebreeds and you get a mutt that is missing most if not all of those recessive genetic problems.

  69. Anonymous | Jul 26, 2011 at 6:18 pm |

    Definitely tickled my with that fancy that 1… lol! Ohh n i sensed the tick as soon as i read your comment… we’re like dirty neanderthal twins bro!  Siamese man.. siamese!!! Ohh n to your questinon:The most ancient mathematical texts available to man are Plimpton 322…  Which are 4500-year old clay tablets showing multiplication and division problems. The 2nd oldest are the 3600 year old Mesopotamian tablets; which show tables of squares, cubes, reciprocals, and even logarithms. POW POW POW… you can pull up your pants now. Im surprised you didn’t know about Plimpton 322… because you mentioned the Cuneiform script, which came from that same people….

  70. Tuna Ghost | Jul 26, 2011 at 6:19 pm |

    Just to be clear, are you seriously trying to draw a casual connection between race and math skills?  That’s, um, not something I’d advise doing.  

  71. JoJoDancer | Jul 26, 2011 at 7:44 pm |

    I am not arguing that IQ is genetic here, and honestly, I would like to see any well-referenced alternative theories that better explain the statistics.  They are few and far between because those who doubt genetic theories are complascent and rarely put together solid research, which is a shame.

    National statistics are there.  Global statistics are there.  To ignore them or just say “You can’t talk about that, it’s racist” is shamefully lazy.

    Last week our local paper had a front page story whose subtitle read Minorities lag behind in AP studies, then below was a graph which showed blacks and Hispanics far below whites–and all three were far below Asians.  Now think about that as you reread that headline.  Misleading?  Tip-toes getting sore?

    If you have any insights, school me.

  72. JoJoDancer | Jul 26, 2011 at 7:50 pm |

    I am not very good at math.  Therefore my calculations that your use of a brutal sodomy metaphor for providing Googlable facts on ancient math show you to be a closet gay rapist.  But I always neglect to carry the 1, so I may be off by a mark or two.

    So, Plimpton 322 came from Mesopotamia.  I bet the Neanderthals pumped some seed into the Fertile Crescent.  Care to wager?

  73. JoJoDancer | Jul 26, 2011 at 8:33 pm |

    Speaking of Hybrid Vigor, it is interesting that civilization began at the geographic borders between the differentiated races of Europe, Africa, and Asia.  I have often wondered if the novel combinations that must have occured at those meeting places–Ancient Egypt, the Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean of Ancient Greece–created a surge in human potential.  That is, if genes count for anything in the realm of intelligence.

  74. JoJoDancer | Jul 26, 2011 at 8:39 pm |

    Now I understand why you were so offended.  I get touchy like that when people claim that my own familial line is somehow degenerate–ie. white-bashing “anti-racists.”

    Aggregate statistics do not imply much, if anything, about individuals.  Certain individuals always rocket ahead of the group.  Keep that in mind.

  75. People from African Descent are Human Beings and people  not from African descent are Neanderthals

  76. Anonymous | Jul 27, 2011 at 12:11 am |

    Keep it classy JoJo. I just fucking hate racist cunts like yourself, there’s not much more to it.

  77. Economics.

  78. Civilization  simply “seems” to start in the middle east because that is were European archaeologists (using the bible as a map) looked for it first. What you’re really talking about is the record of material culture. Outside of Egypt, Archaeology in Africa has sorely been neglected. One must also remember that materials must “SURVIVE”. If a culture uses materials that biodegrade, which is more likely not just the further back you go in time, but the further you get from the arid desert, they do not survive. This is part of the reason there is a great gap in European history. They built every damn thing out of wood, until they didn’t, at which point they left us something to dig up.

  79. Also you must remember that at the end of the last ice age we lost millions of square miles of coastal land. Any coastal culture that may have existed lie buried miles off shore.  

  80. Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 5:41 am |

    As Plop so eloquently suggests, economics is one reason.  The statistics do seem to suggest something that no one wants to say, something along the lines of “minorities just aren’t as smart as whites”, but that isn’t telling the whole story.  

    Take my hometown of Detroit, for example.  It is predominantly black, and the test scores there are pretty shitty.  Does this mean black people just plain aren’t good at book-larnin’?  Not at all.  Back in the 60’s, there were terrible riots stemming from a mostly white police force overseeing mostly black neighborhoods, and the resulting the race riots were so bad the national guard was called in.  This lead to what folks call “white flight”–all the white folks moved out to the suburbs and took their money with them.  Ever since that time, poverty in Detroit grew and grew until it reached the present state where a full third of the population is below the poverty line and in a poll five years ago, almost half the residents said they would move out of Detroit if they could afford it.  Unemployment in Detroit (Michigan in general, but Detroit skewed the statistics pretty heavily) was a huge problem before the economy went down the toilet, and now its even worse.  The city is bankrupt and the last mayor, a thug named Kwame Kilpatrick, didn’t help anything with his embezzlement.

    What does this have to do with test scores?  Well the school system in Detroit is just plain broken.  The city has no money to pay teachers a decent wage, and it seems every few years they go on strike because they’re being paid shit to teach some of the hardest kids in the country.  The schools can’t pay them more because they just don’t have the money, which means the schools don’t have the proper materials and more and more schools close every year.  This leads to over-crowding in the classrooms, which has a direct effect on the quality of education per child.  Combine this with the arrest record of the average black male in Detroit, the broken families that result from this, and you have a recipe for students that see no reason to stay in school and a school system that can’t give them any.  No materials, fewer and fewer teachers each year, bigger and bigger class size, and you have test scores and general education levels dropping like a goddam stone.  

    This problem is not unique to Detroit–it happens in predominantly minority communities all over the country.  

  81. Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 5:44 am |

    P.S.  You mentioned asian students out-performing blacks and hispanics.  Take a look at the average income for Asian families, how many of these families have a two-parent home, and what neighborhoods these families are from and you’ll notice a pretty distinct pattern.

  82. Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 6:14 am |

    This may be me looking to hard, but it seems like you’re pretty set on taking the accomplishments of colored folks and placing them on the shoulders of the white folks.  That’s not cool, buddy.

  83. Tuna Ghost | Jul 27, 2011 at 6:14 am |

    This may be me looking to hard, but it seems like you’re pretty set on taking the accomplishments of colored folks and placing them on the shoulders of the white folks.  That’s not cool, buddy.

  84. JoJoDancer | Jul 29, 2011 at 8:54 am |

    Your insight from a place where “minority” is rendered meaningless by regional demographics is quite interesting.  I can only imagine the subtle details you have picked up over the years.  I have always held the opinion is worth a thousand global studies.

    It is late in the night and late in the thread, but rest assured that your response is food for thought.

  85. JoJoDancer | Jul 29, 2011 at 8:56 am |

    I suppose we could dig to the center of the Earth and never find a trace of the beginning.  History is a reconstruction, that is certain.  We only have faded snapshots to work with.

  86. JoJoDancer | Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 am |

    Many “colord folks'” accomplishments do rest upon the shoulders of white folks.  You and I both know that.

    Look at it this way:  Rock n’ roll was utterly dependent upon black rhythms, black sorrows, black lyrics, and black wildness.  Without blacks, rock n’ roll would sound like an Irish cracker slapping old potatos against a whiskey bottle and grumbling about shitty England.  We can all agree that black soul was necessary for rock n’ roll, right?

    So why would we have a hard time agreeing that the advancement of mathematics disproportionately rests on the shoulders of Asians and Jews?

    Again, I am open to alternative ideas, but it sure seems like the Asians and Jews have a knack for numbers and literary endeavors.  Whether math and science are superior endeavors is in the eye of the beholder.  Who excels at such skills is in the eye of the graph.

  87. Anonymous | Jul 29, 2011 at 10:47 pm |

    I wouldn’t be surprised if one day there was discovered conclusive proof that our species came from different ape species and cross-screwed itself to form one wanker species that now dominates the globe.

    Black people largely from another ape species. I mean, just look at them. They’re superior.

  88. I wouldn’t be surprised if one day there was discovered conclusive proof that our species came from different ape species and cross-screwed itself to form one wanker species that now dominates the globe.

    Black people largely from another ape species. I mean, just look at them. They’re superior.

  89. Stevebeer60 | Jul 30, 2011 at 1:12 am |

    Wow. And to think that we consider the people of Africa to be the lesser humans.

  90. Stevebeer60 | Jul 29, 2011 at 9:12 pm |

    Wow. And to think that we consider the people of Africa to be the lesser humans.

  91. Tuna Ghost | Aug 1, 2011 at 10:37 am |

    So why would we have a hard time agreeing that the advancement of mathematics disproportionately rests on the shoulders of Asians and Jews?
    Because as history shows us, Algebra and a lot of Geometry came from the middle east, calculus from europe, and the Greeks helped quite a bit in the Geometry section.  Where are you getting this “Jews and Asians” bit from?  It sounds like bald stereotyping with nothing to back it up.  I explained earlier that if you take a look Asian families in america, their economic situation and the sort of communities they live in, and the stats will make sense.  On the other side of the world, if you look at the scholastic culture of Asian countries and the results also become clear.  

  92. Tuna Ghost | Aug 1, 2011 at 10:38 am |

    Every time humanity gets itself into trouble, I gotta fuck our way out of it.  Figures

  93. Anonymous | Aug 2, 2011 at 4:55 pm |

    What of the great Han people rising in the East as we speak? What is their claim to fame? Neanderthals too? Or not? 

  94. Anonymous | Aug 2, 2011 at 4:55 pm |

    What of the great Han people rising in the East as we speak? What is their claim to fame? Neanderthals too? Or not? 

  95. What of the great Han people rising in the East as we speak? What is their claim to fame? Neanderthals too? Or not? 

  96. Rwestbrook | Aug 8, 2011 at 4:14 pm |

    science is a stuipd religon. They have no proof of anything they say about eveloution so they are constantly making up trash. Give it a rest!

  97. Rwestbrook | Aug 8, 2011 at 12:14 pm |

    science is a stuipd religon. They have no proof of anything they say about eveloution so they are constantly making up trash. Give it a rest!

    • Anarchy Pony | Aug 15, 2011 at 6:52 pm |

      Yeah no proof, except for all modern genetic science, and the fossil record. Your religion is fake, it has a clear cultural origin and definable cultural evolution, it therefore cannot be an eternal truth. It exists only to justify patriarchal dominator hierarchies, that destroy indigenous peoples and colonize the land. Grow up. 

  98. Yeah no proof, except for all modern genetic science, and the fossil record. Your religion is fake, it has a clear cultural origin and definable cultural evolution, it therefore cannot be an eternal truth. It exists only to justify patriarchal dominator hierarchies, that destroy indigenous peoples and colonize the land. Grow up. 

  99. Pagan Harlow | Aug 26, 2011 at 8:51 pm |

    Why can’t we all just admit that race does not matter? Yes, we have all the genetics of our ancestors and guess what? We’re not them. All that dna moving up generation by generation until there’s *Poof!* us. The first generations that can look back at it all and see it for what it is. A huge family feud. Hatfieds and McCoys. There’s been awesome people who changed the world, evil people as well. Of every race, every religion. We can’t keep acting like dicks to each other because our daddies did bad things to your daddies and vise versa. Do you not the irony? Fighting about dumb shit is what does us in! I don’t want a new world order, I want a sane world order. You can’t integrate people by force, play them against each other and make it work. It’s insanity. And we keep doing it. Why? We don’t look back in time and be honest about what’s going on. We’re not objective. We’re too attached to it. Because someone told you that you should give a shit. That it wasn’t specific people of every race, every religion that got us here. And we all did it to each other. It sucks. We’ve been fighting too long to see who really was Daddy’s favorite, who was right… but we forgot how we were hurting Mom.

  100. Pagan Harlow | Aug 26, 2011 at 8:51 pm |

    Why can’t we all just admit that race does not matter? Yes, we have all the genetics of our ancestors and guess what? We’re not them. All that dna moving up generation by generation until there’s *Poof!* us. The first generations that can look back at it all and see it for what it is. A huge family feud. Hatfieds and McCoys. There’s been awesome people who changed the world, evil people as well. Of every race, every religion. We can’t keep acting like dicks to each other because our daddies did bad things to your daddies and vise versa. Do you not the irony? Fighting about dumb shit is what does us in! I don’t want a new world order, I want a sane world order. You can’t integrate people by force, play them against each other and make it work. It’s insanity. And we keep doing it. Why? We don’t look back in time and be honest about what’s going on. We’re not objective. We’re too attached to it. Because someone told you that you should give a shit. That it wasn’t specific people of every race, every religion that got us here. And we all did it to each other. It sucks. We’ve been fighting too long to see who really was Daddy’s favorite, who was right… but we forgot how we were hurting Mom.

  101. Pagan Harlow | Aug 26, 2011 at 4:51 pm |

    Why can’t we all just admit that race does not matter? Yes, we have all the genetics of our ancestors and guess what? We’re not them. All that dna moving up generation by generation until there’s *Poof!* us. The first generations that can look back at it all and see it for what it is. A huge family feud. Hatfieds and McCoys. There’s been awesome people who changed the world, evil people as well. Of every race, every religion. We can’t keep acting like dicks to each other because our daddies did bad things to your daddies and vise versa. Do you not the irony? Fighting about dumb shit is what does us in! I don’t want a new world order, I want a sane world order. You can’t integrate people by force, play them against each other and make it work. It’s insanity. And we keep doing it. Why? We don’t look back in time and be honest about what’s going on. We’re not objective. We’re too attached to it. Because someone told you that you should give a shit. That it wasn’t specific people of every race, every religion that got us here. And we all did it to each other. It sucks. We’ve been fighting too long to see who really was Daddy’s favorite, who was right… but we forgot how we were hurting Mom.

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