Anti-Depressant Patients Are More Likely to Suffer Depression Relapse

Prozac Pills

Photo: Tom Varco (CC)

From ScienceDaily:

In a paper that is likely to ignite new controversy in the hotly debated field of depression and medication, evolutionary psychologist Paul Andrews concludes that patients who have used anti-depressant medications can be nearly twice as susceptible to future episodes of major depression.

Andrews, an assistant professor in the Department of Psychology, Neuroscience & Behaviour, is the lead author of a new paper in the journal Frontiers of Psychology.

The meta-analysis suggests that people who have not been taking any medication are at a 25 per cent risk of relapse, compared to 42 per cent or higher for those who have taken and gone off an anti-depressant.

Andrews and his colleagues studied dozens of previously published studies to compare outcomes for patients who used anti-depressants compared to those who used placebos.

They analyzed research on subjects who started on medications and were switched to placebos, subjects who were administered placebos throughout their treatment, and subjects who continued to take medication throughout their course of treatment.

Read more here.

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76 Responses to Anti-Depressant Patients Are More Likely to Suffer Depression Relapse

  1. Anonymous July 21, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    no argument from me.

    effexor nearly tore my body assunder. much like a baddie from ninja scroll.

  2. Jin The Ninja July 21, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    no argument from me.

    effexor nearly tore my body assunder. much like a baddie from ninja scroll.

    • DeepCough July 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

      Well, there is only one baddie I know of that fits that description: Utsutsu.

      • Jin The Ninja July 21, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

        I was thinking the guy with the rock body, but blind swordsman is always a good choice.

  3. DeepCough July 21, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

     ”We found that the more these drugs affect serotonin and other
    neurotransmitters in your brain — and that’s what they’re supposed to
    do — the greater your risk of relapse once you stop taking them,”
    Andrews says. “All these drugs do reduce symptoms, probably to some
    degree, in the short-term. The trick is what happens in the long term.
    Our results suggest that when you try to go off the drugs, depression
    will bounce back. This can leave people stuck in a cycle where they need
    to keep taking anti-depressants to prevent a return of symptoms.”

    See, that’s the problem with psychologists and psychiatrists: they forget that their forms of medication are not affecting this esoteric entity called “the mind,” they’re fucking with the neurochemistry of your brain, so it comes as no shock that, for people to be stable on these drugs, they have to keep on taking them. This is what happens when Capitalism practices “harm reduction.”

  4. DeepCough July 21, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

     ”We found that the more these drugs affect serotonin and other
    neurotransmitters in your brain — and that’s what they’re supposed to
    do — the greater your risk of relapse once you stop taking them,”
    Andrews says. “All these drugs do reduce symptoms, probably to some
    degree, in the short-term. The trick is what happens in the long term.
    Our results suggest that when you try to go off the drugs, depression
    will bounce back. This can leave people stuck in a cycle where they need
    to keep taking anti-depressants to prevent a return of symptoms.”

    See, that’s the problem with psychologists and psychiatrists: they forget that their forms of medication are not affecting this esoteric entity called “the mind,” they’re fucking with the neurochemistry of your brain, so it comes as no shock that, for people to be stable on these drugs, they have to keep on taking them. This is what happens when Capitalism practices “harm reduction.”

    • VoxMagi July 22, 2011 at 5:28 am #

      Whatever else we may disagree on…we’re on the same page here.

      Depression, anxiety and other everyday issues from stress are NOT best handled by using drugs that can PERMANENTLY alter brain chemistry. Big pharm keeps pimping its latest dopes with the promise that no one will have to genuinely suffer ‘feelings’ other than numbed out bliss…which is even unhealthier than just experiencing pain and loss and getting on with it….and millions of people are being damaged mentally and emotionally by the substances that are rewiring their brains.

      • DeepCough July 22, 2011 at 9:26 am #

        Well of course I was right.

    • Andrew July 22, 2011 at 11:47 am #

      Psychologists don’t prescribe medication.

      • DeepCough July 22, 2011 at 6:34 pm #

        If you’re a clinical psychologist, you can.

    • guest July 28, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

      Psychologists don’t prescribe medication, at least not in most states.  They are trained to sit and talk through the issues, not just make them go away with a magic pill.  Managed Care has ruined the field of health.  15 minutes and $200 later and you’re cured is what the insurance companies demand.  What’s good for you in the long run is rarely considered.

  5. DeepCough July 21, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Well, there is only one baddie I know of that fits that description: Utsutsu.

  6. Chaorder Gradient July 21, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Maybe its because depression is intrinsic on people being distressed about the causes of their depression. How hard is to understand that people get depressed for a reason, and will only stop being depressed when that reason is out of the picture, or they lie to themselves that the problems aren’t there. Unfortunately, most sane people hone in on the lies, which only make them more depressed.

    Depression pharmaceutics is a way of treating the symptoms but not the causes, and is a way to force a person (possibly by their own hand) to ignore a problem. It is as effective at curing depression as The Secret’s method of making problems go away… “just don’t think about them”. As soon as you wake up from you’re doped slumber, you fall into a deeper depression when you realize exactly this.

  7. Chaorder Gradient July 21, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Maybe its because depression is intrinsic on people being distressed about the causes of their depression. How hard is to understand that people get depressed for a reason, and will only stop being depressed when that reason is out of the picture, or they lie to themselves that the problems aren’t there. Unfortunately, most sane people hone in on the lies, which only make them more depressed.

    Depression pharmaceutics is a way of treating the symptoms but not the causes, and is a way to force a person (possibly by their own hand) to ignore a problem. It is as effective at curing depression as The Secret’s method of making problems go away… “just don’t think about them”. As soon as you wake up from you’re doped slumber, you fall into a deeper depression when you realize exactly this.

  8. Guest July 21, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    its bc the pills never worked to begin with.. its a fancy, expensive placebo that can cause suicidal thoughts itself.. 

  9. Guest July 21, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    its bc the pills never worked to begin with.. its a fancy, expensive placebo that can cause suicidal thoughts itself.. 

  10. Guest July 21, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    its bc the pills never worked to begin with.. its a fancy, expensive placebo that can cause suicidal thoughts itself.. 

  11. Chaorder Gradient July 21, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Maybe its because depression is intrinsic on people being distressed about the causes of their depression. How hard is to understand that people get depressed for a reason, and will only stop being depressed when that reason is out of the picture, or they lie to themselves that the problems aren’t there. Unfortunately, most sane people hone in on the lies, which only make them more depressed.

    Depression pharmaceutics is a way of treating the symptoms but not the causes, and is a way to force a person (possibly by their own hand) to ignore a problem. It is as effective at curing depression as The Secret’s method of making problems go away… “just don’t think about them”. As soon as you wake up from you’re doped slumber, you fall into a deeper depression when you realize exactly this.

  12. Guest July 21, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    its bc the pills never worked to begin with.. its a fancy, expensive placebo that can cause suicidal thoughts itself.. 

    • Tuna Ghost July 21, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

      Wait, how is it a placebo if it has an effect on the patient?

      • Anarchy Pony July 22, 2011 at 12:50 am #

        Are you unaware of the placebo effect? The placebo effect is when a person generally in test trials undergoes positive changes or experiences desirable results as opposed to the expected lack of change while being given placebo drugs. The exact reason for such results are unknown, but it is thought to be solely because of a rallying of the person’s mental health and willpower brought about through the express hope and belief that the “treatment” will help them. It does not always work though, and eventually the person can relapse.

        • Tuna Ghost July 22, 2011 at 8:15 am #

          Yeah I’m familiar with it, but I had always thought the placebo was, in all cases, just a sugar pill or something completely inert like that.  If its causing suicidal thoughts or feelings, as I’ve heard some anti-depressants do with teenagers, then is it really a placebo?  It obviously can’t be just a sugar pill.  

          I’m no psychiatrist, though.  I could be misunderstanding the exact definition of “placebo”.

          • Anarchy Pony July 22, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

            Well anti depressants aren’t really placebos to be honest, they do actually affect brain chemistry usually in unpredictable ways due to interactions with hormones, which are fluctuating during puberty causing drastic problems and further imbalances. 

            I don’t approve of anti depressants though. People need to figure out what is really is causing their depression and addressing it, instead of using pharmaceuticals so that they simply stop caring.

          • Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

            I don’t approve of anti depressants though. People need to figure out what is really is causing their depression and addressing it, instead of using pharmaceuticals so that they simply stop caring.

            I agree to the extent that depression isn’t an incurable disease and one’s plan shouldn’t be to take Wellbutrin for the rest of one’s life.  It should always be taken in conjunction with therapy in an attempt to, as you say, discover the cause and address it.  When I was diagnosed with clinical depression at 19, I literally could not remember what it was like to not be depressed and the medication gave me a glimpse into what a health, or at least average, brain chemistry balance was like (Wellbutrin is basically a huge ball of side-effects, you choose the ones you want and try to suppress the rest.  It suppresses one’s appetite, but it gives you insomnia.  It helps suppress nicotine cravings, but it can make you nauseous.  It can help with depression, but too much and it causes a dopamine overdose which causes you to hallucinate like a goddam wizard).  It helped me get a fix on where I should be and what to work for.  

            I firmly believe that however long therapy lasts, medication should always have an end goal in sight.

  13. Anarchy Pony July 21, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Hmmm, so the soma is no longer working? Maybe people will need to actually address the things that cause their depression, like the alienating effects of civilization or the demeaning aspects of wage slavery, the struggle to find employment so that they can have income so that can just have a place to exist in.

    Start the revolution fucktards, stop using pills and band aids and cure the disease!

    • Josh Davis July 21, 2011 at 9:56 pm #

      Anarchy Wolf Fuck Yeah!!!

      • Anarchy Pony July 22, 2011 at 12:53 am #

        Well somebody has to fucking say it. I know it is burning just below the surface of most people, either consciously or not. They may not have the source of their feelings nailed down, but they just feel and know something is wrong. But they don’t want to admit it, and will almost certainly not act on it. 

        • Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

          But but but if I start examining the numbing vacuousness of my life, I might miss the next episode of Jersey Shore!  What then, smart guy???

    • Josh Davis July 21, 2011 at 9:56 pm #

      Anarchy Wolf Fuck Yeah!!!

  14. Anarchy Wolf July 21, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Hmmm, so the soma is no longer working? Maybe people will need to actually address the things that cause their depression, like the alienating effects of civilization or the demeaning aspects of wage slavery, the struggle to find employment so that they can have income so that can just have a place to exist in.

    Start the revolution fucktards, stop using pills and band aids and cure the disease!

  15. Anarchy Wolf July 21, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Hmmm, so the soma is no longer working? Maybe people will need to actually address the things that cause their depression, like the alienating effects of civilization or the demeaning aspects of wage slavery, the struggle to find employment so that they can have income so that can just have a place to exist in.

    Start the revolution fucktards, stop using pills and band aids and cure the disease!

  16. MoralDrift July 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    It has been shown that anti-depressants dont even really work. If someone is severely depressed, prescribe a short-term monitored regimen of cocaine, amphetamine, or some other stimulant to get them out of bed and into the sunshine for a few days. Other than that, rooting out depression takes hard work and honest therapy.

    • Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

      It has been shown that anti-depressants dont even really work
      Gotta disagree there, guy, and ask for links to studies.  This may or may not be true for SSRIs, but non-SSRI stuff does indeed have a positive effect in the majority of cases (according to my doctor).  If I recall correctly, no one is sure why stuff like Wellbutrin does the things it does–it’s most certainly not a placebo, as I noted upthread its basically a wad of vastly different side-effects and you choose the ones you want and try to suppress the ones you don’t want–but in my case, it helped greatly in conjunction with therapy.  

  17. Anonymous July 21, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    It has been shown that anti-depressants dont even really work. If someone is severely depressed, prescribe a short-term monitored regimen of cocaine, amphetamine, or some other stimulant to get them out of bed and into the sunshine for a few days. Other than that, rooting out depression takes hard work and honest therapy.

  18. jasonpaulhayes July 21, 2011 at 5:32 pm #

    Depression is a natural felling when you live in a sick, depraved society of bullshit and mediocrity soiling the purpose of mankind and making no choice matter. Don’t take a pill and be a little Zombie bitch, suck it up, learn to deal with your shitty life and take it on full force.

    “I have a job where I alphabetize insurance forms 45 hours a week, and I noticed I couldn’t concentrate so well on my job. So my doctor put me on Adderall, and now I just breeze through my workday. I don’t even notice that my empty life is being pissed away underneath fluorescent tubes, I have no good stories, I’m probably the most boring person I know, but I’m gettin’ so much done! I just go A B C D E F G H I L M N O bladdle-addle blah blah blah.” Doug Stanhope

  19. jasonpaulhayes July 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    Depression is a natural felling when you live in a sick, depraved society of bullshit and mediocrity. Don’t take a pill and be a little Zombie bitch, suck it up, learn to deal with your shitty life and take it on full force.

    “I have a job where I alphabetize insurance forms 45 hours a week, and I
    noticed I couldn’t concentrate so well on my job. So my doctor put me
    on Adderall, and now I just breeze through my workday. I don’t even
    notice that my empty life is being pissed away underneath fluorescent
    tubes, I have no good stories, I’m probably the most boring person I
    know, but I’m gettin’ so much done! I just go A B C D E F G H I L M N O
    bladdle-addle blah blah blah.” Doug Stanhope

  20. ditm July 21, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    The suggestion that a depressed person take chemicals is an incredibly irresponsible one. If your friend comes to you in tears, you shouldn’t tell them to start drinking, you shouldn’t tell them to have a cigarette, and you shouldn’t tell them to drug themselves better. You should help, as best you can.

  21. ditm July 21, 2011 at 9:37 pm #

    The suggestion that a depressed person take chemicals is an incredibly irresponsible one. If your friend comes to you in tears, you shouldn’t tell them to start drinking, you shouldn’t tell them to have a cigarette, and you shouldn’t tell them to drug themselves better. You should help, as best you can.

  22. Anonymous July 21, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    I was thinking the guy with the rock body, but blind swordsman is always a good choice.

  23. mole_face July 21, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    This is probably due to receptor downregulation. When exposed to a steady supply of a drug that artificially boosts various neurotransmitters, the brain reduces its sensitivity to the affected neurotransmitters. This entails receptors literally dying off.

    Serotonin receptor downregulation is the mechanism responsible for long term burnout from club drugs and other stimulants.

    Antidepressants work by stimulating 2/3 of the same three neurotransmitters responsible for cocaine’s euphoric effects. They’re designed to stimulate those same areas of the brain in a more subtle way, which leads to an artificially induced sense of well being without as much of a high. Regardless, longterm use carries the same risk as any other drugs that affect those parts of the brain.

    Mainstream psychiatry has started acknowledging permanent serotonin receptor downregulation from SSRI medications – but they claim that this is part of the drugs’ THERAPEUTIC effect. This makes zero sense, since it’s very well understood that serotonin receptor downregulation is a horrible unwanted side effect when it’s induced by NON psychiatric drugs. They’re essentially operating under the presumption that their drugs must be inherently good, therefore anything they do to the brain must also be good. Welcome to Bizarro World science.

    • mole_face July 21, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

      A couple more observations -

      Serotonin receptor downregulation directly disproves the “chemical imbalance theory”. If the brain compensates for elevated serotonin levels by killing off receptors, then clearly the brain isn’t being “balanced”. In fact, the brain’s fighting to counter the drug’s effects.

      People are routinely told by their psychiatrists that if they feel horrendously depressed and burned out after going off SSRIs, it’s due to their “illness” worsening. But they cant’ account for the fact that people who took SSRIs for non-depression-related issues (social anxiety, etc) also end up with severe depression symptoms once they go off the drugs.

      Also, about the recent claims that serotonin receptor downregulation is a GOOD thing – originally psychiatrists claimed that the reason why stimulating serotonin alleviated depression was because the brain was producing too little serotonin. If they’re now claiming that killing off serotonin receptors and permanently reducing brain serotonin levels is what treats depression, they’re saying the exact OPPOSITE of their original claims.

      Stimulating serotonin receptors helps depression because that’s the pathway through which lots of drugs induce a false sense of well-being. 

      • Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

        hmmm, I was never on SSRIs but stuff like Bupropion (marketed as Wellbutrin, Zyban, Voxra, Budeprion, or Aplenzin) worked well for me.  You seem reasonably knowledgable on the subject and I want to pick your brain in regard to MDMA, SSRIs and non-SSRI medication for depression, but I’m having trouble formulating the right question.

    • mole_face July 21, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

      A couple more observations -

      Serotonin receptor downregulation directly disproves the “chemical imbalance theory”. If the brain compensates for elevated serotonin levels by killing off receptors, then clearly the brain isn’t being “balanced”. In fact, the brain’s fighting to counter the drug’s effects.

      People are routinely told by their psychiatrists that if they feel horrendously depressed and burned out after going off SSRIs, it’s due to their “illness” worsening. But they cant’ account for the fact that people who took SSRIs for non-depression-related issues (social anxiety, etc) also end up with severe depression symptoms once they go off the drugs.

      Also, about the recent claims that serotonin receptor downregulation is a GOOD thing – originally psychiatrists claimed that the reason why stimulating serotonin alleviated depression was because the brain was producing too little serotonin. If they’re now claiming that killing off serotonin receptors and permanently reducing brain serotonin levels is what treats depression, they’re saying the exact OPPOSITE of their original claims.

      Stimulating serotonin receptors helps depression because that’s the pathway through which lots of drugs induce a false sense of well-being. 

  24. mole_face July 21, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    This is probably due to receptor downregulation. When exposed to a steady supply of a drug that artificially boosts various neurotransmitters, the brain reduces its sensitivity to the affected neurotransmitters. This entails receptors literally dying off.

    Serotonin receptor downregulation is the mechanism responsible for long term burnout from club drugs and other stimulants.

    Antidepressants work by stimulating 2/3 of the same three neurotransmitters responsible for cocaine’s euphoric effects. They’re designed to stimulate those same areas of the brain in a more subtle way, which leads to an artificially induced sense of well being without as much of a high. Regardless, longterm use carries the same risk as any other drugs that affect those parts of the brain.

    Mainstream psychiatry has started acknowledging permanent serotonin receptor downregulation from SSRI medications – but they claim that this is part of the drugs’ THERAPEUTIC effect. This makes zero sense, since it’s very well understood that serotonin receptor downregulation is a horrible unwanted side effect when it’s induced by NON psychiatric drugs. They’re essentially operating under the presumption that their drugs must be inherently good, therefore anything they do to the brain must also be good. Welcome to Bizarro World science.

  25. fuzzgun July 21, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    This is probably due to receptor downregulation. When exposed to a steady supply of a drug that artificially boosts various neurotransmitters, the brain reduces its sensitivity to the affected neurotransmitters. This entails receptors literally dying off.

    Serotonin receptor downregulation is the mechanism responsible for long term burnout from club drugs and other stimulants.

    Antidepressants work by stimulating 2/3 of the same three neurotransmitters responsible for cocaine’s euphoric effects. They’re designed to stimulate those same areas of the brain in a more subtle way, which leads to an artificially induced sense of well being without as much of a high. Regardless, longterm use carries the same risk as any other drugs that affect those parts of the brain.

    Mainstream psychiatry has started acknowledging permanent serotonin receptor downregulation from SSRI medications – but they claim that this is part of the drugs’ THERAPEUTIC effect. This makes zero sense, since it’s very well understood that serotonin receptor downregulation is a horrible unwanted side effect when it’s induced by NON psychiatric drugs. They’re essentially operating under the presumption that their drugs must be inherently good, therefore anything they do to the brain must also be good. Welcome to Bizarro World science.

  26. fuzzgun July 21, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    A couple more observations -

    Serotonin receptor downregulation directly disproves the “chemical imbalance theory”. If the brain compensates for elevated serotonin levels by killing off receptors, then clearly the brain isn’t being “balanced”. In fact, the brain’s fighting to counter the drug’s effects.

    People are routinely told by their psychiatrists that if they feel horrendously depressed and burned out after going off SSRIs, it’s due to their “illness” worsening. But they cant’ account for the fact that people who took SSRIs for non-depression-related issues (social anxiety, etc) also end up with severe depression symptoms once they go off the drugs.

    Also, about the recent claims that serotonin receptor downregulation is a GOOD thing – originally psychiatrists claimed that the reason why stimulating serotonin alleviated depression was because the brain was producing too little serotonin. If they’re now claiming that killing off serotonin receptors and permanently reducing brain serotonin levels is what treats depression, they’re saying the exact OPPOSITE of their original claims.

    Stimulating serotonin receptors helps depression because that’s the pathway through which lots of drugs induce a false sense of well-being. 

  27. Josh Davis July 22, 2011 at 1:56 am #

    Anarchy Wolf Fuck Yeah!!!

  28. guest July 21, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    This is why it is really important to journal when you do a mood chart.  My shifts were huge, but it was actually due to stress. 

    • jchadbou July 23, 2011 at 4:41 am #

      the mood chart and journal are supposed to let your therapist know how to adjust your medication.  But since the medications you’re probably prescribed aren’t authentic, scientists can only rate your week from either your appearance or your word.

  29. guest July 21, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    This is why it is really important to journal when you do a mood chart.  My shifts were huge, but it was actually due to stress. 

  30. guest July 22, 2011 at 2:13 am #

    This is why it is really important to journal when you do a mood chart.  My shifts were huge, but it was actually due to stress. 

  31. Tuna Ghost July 22, 2011 at 3:58 am #

    Wait, how is it a placebo if it has an effect on the patient?

  32. Anarchy Wolf July 22, 2011 at 4:50 am #

    Are you unaware of the placebo effect? The placebo effect is when a person generally in test trials undergoes positive changes or experiences desirable results as opposed to the expected lack of change while being given placebo drugs. The exact reason for such results are unknown, but it is thought to be solely because of a rallying of the person’s mental health and willpower brought about through the express hope and belief that the “treatment” will help them. It does not always work though, and eventually the person can relapse.

  33. Anarchy Wolf July 22, 2011 at 4:53 am #

    Well somebody has to fucking say it. I know it is burning just below the surface of most people, either consciously or not. They may not have the source of their feelings nailed down, but they just feel and know something is wrong. But they don’t want to admit it, and will almost certainly not act on it. 

  34. VoxMagi July 22, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    Whatever else we may disagree on…we’re on the same page here.

    Depression, anxiety and other everyday issues from stress are NOT best handled by using drugs that can PERMANENTLY alter brain chemistry. Big pharm keeps pimping its latest dopes with the promise that no one will have to genuinely suffer ‘feelings’ other than numbed out bliss…which is even unhealthier than just experiencing pain and loss and getting on with it….and millions of people are being damaged mentally and emotionally by the substances that are rewiring their brains.

  35. Tuna Ghost July 22, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Yeah I’m familiar with it, but I had always thought the placebo was, in all cases, just a sugar pill or something completely inert like that.  If its causing suicidal thoughts or feelings, as I’ve heard some anti-depressants do with teenagers, then is it really a placebo?  It obviously can’t be just a sugar pill.  

    I’m no psychiatrist, though.  I could be misunderstanding the exact definition of “placebo”.

  36. DeepCough July 22, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Well of course I was right.

  37. Andrew July 22, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    This why, with or without medication, therapy is necessary.

  38. Andrew July 22, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    This why, with or without medication, therapy is necessary.

  39. Andrew July 22, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    Psychologists don’t prescribe medication.

  40. Anarchy Wolf July 22, 2011 at 6:42 pm #

    Well anti depressants aren’t really placebos to be honest, they do actually affect brain chemistry usually in unpredictable ways due to interactions with hormones, which are fluctuating during puberty causing drastic problems and further imbalances. 

    I don’t approve of anti depressants though. People need to figure out what is really is causing their depression and addressing it, instead of using pharmaceuticals so that they simply stop caring.

  41. Micho_rizo July 22, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Mental Illness is a myth. Any halfwit with a halfway open mind can read Thomas Szasz and recognize that he’s right.

    That’s
    not to say that there aren’t people with emotional and mental problems.
    There surely are. But it’s not a “disease”. Behaviors cannot be
    diseases. And if they are actual diseases of the brain (such as
    Tourrette’s), they belong in the realm of neurology and the neurologist,
    not the psychiatrist. The fact that we say someone who has trouble
    maintaining their anger has a “disease”, but that a person who is good
    at playing the piano has a “talent” is merely a matter of social
    convention. After all “getting angry” and “playing the piano” are just
    behaviors. One is accepted by society, one isn’t. Ultimately, it’s all
    “conform, conform, conform” and if you can’t take the responsibility to
    do so yourself, these pills will.

    I think it’s important to note
    the difference between psychology and psychiatry. Though I don’t believe
    psychology is a hard science, per se, I do find it admirable. As has
    been stated, it’s just the observation of human behavior and what
    influences it, i.e. Pavlov’s dog. Whereas psychiatry is just a matter of
    knowing which pill affects which behavior, or, which chemical causes
    someone to do what. Whereas psychology would study ways to help Pavlov’s
    dog stop salivating at the sound of the bell by changing the dog’s
    thoughts and/or behaviors, psychiatry would say, “Who gives a shit?” and
    give the dog a pill.

  42. Micho_rizo July 22, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Mental Illness is a myth. Any halfwit with a halfway open mind can read Thomas Szasz and recognize that he’s right.

    That’s
    not to say that there aren’t people with emotional and mental problems.
    There surely are. But it’s not a “disease”. Behaviors cannot be
    diseases. And if they are actual diseases of the brain (such as
    Tourrette’s), they belong in the realm of neurology and the neurologist,
    not the psychiatrist. The fact that we say someone who has trouble
    maintaining their anger has a “disease”, but that a person who is good
    at playing the piano has a “talent” is merely a matter of social
    convention. After all “getting angry” and “playing the piano” are just
    behaviors. One is accepted by society, one isn’t. Ultimately, it’s all
    “conform, conform, conform” and if you can’t take the responsibility to
    do so yourself, these pills will.

    I think it’s important to note
    the difference between psychology and psychiatry. Though I don’t believe
    psychology is a hard science, per se, I do find it admirable. As has
    been stated, it’s just the observation of human behavior and what
    influences it, i.e. Pavlov’s dog. Whereas psychiatry is just a matter of
    knowing which pill affects which behavior, or, which chemical causes
    someone to do what. Whereas psychology would study ways to help Pavlov’s
    dog stop salivating at the sound of the bell by changing the dog’s
    thoughts and/or behaviors, psychiatry would say, “Who gives a shit?” and
    give the dog a pill.

    • Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

      After all “getting angry” and “playing the piano” are just behaviors.
      This is a nonsense statement.  These two in no way belong in the same category; playing the piano is not a “behavior” in the same sense that getting angry is.  You can even claim they are both simply expressions of emotions, as it is very easy to play music and not be expressing anything.  

      And for the record, not all psychiatrists simply throw pills at every problem they come across.  Its best to think of them as psychologists with medical degrees.  

  43. DeepCough July 22, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    If you’re a clinical psychologist, you can.

  44. Someone July 22, 2011 at 10:21 pm #

    Doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.  The more you become dependent on something outside of yourself to handle your psychological afflictions the less able you will be to handle said problems without sedative medicinal support.

  45. Someone July 23, 2011 at 2:21 am #

    Doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.  The more you become dependent on something outside of yourself to handle your psychological afflictions the less able you will be to handle said problems without sedative medicinal support.

  46. jchadbou July 23, 2011 at 4:24 am #

    9 out of 10 patients are likely prescribed placebos regardless of research, and their real medications go on the black market.  No wonder science is interested in the effects of placebos, its all serious medical conditions will be treated with.

  47. jchadbou July 23, 2011 at 8:24 am #

    9 out of 10 patients are likely prescribed placebos regardless of research, and their real medications go on the black market.  No wonder science is interested in the effects of placebos, its all serious medical conditions will be treated with.

  48. jchadbou July 23, 2011 at 8:41 am #

    the mood chart and journal are supposed to let your therapist know how to adjust your medication.  But since the medications you’re probably prescribed aren’t authentic, scientists can only rate your week from either your appearance or your word.

  49. Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    I don’t approve of anti depressants though. People need to figure out what is really is causing their depression and addressing it, instead of using pharmaceuticals so that they simply stop caring.

    I agree to the extent that depression isn’t an incurable disease and one’s plan shouldn’t be to take Wellbutrin for the rest of one’s life.  It should always be taken in conjunction with therapy in an attempt to, as you say, discover the cause and address it.  When I was diagnosed with clinical depression at 19, I literally could not remember what it was like to not be depressed and the medication gave me a glimpse into what a health, or at least average, brain chemistry balance was like (Wellbutrin is basically a huge ball of side-effects, you choose the ones you want and try to suppress the rest.  It suppresses one’s appetite, but it gives you insomnia.  It helps suppress nicotine cravings, but it can make you nauseous.  It can help with depression, but too much and it causes a dopamine overdose which causes you to hallucinate like a goddam wizard).  It helped me get a fix on where I should be and what to work for.  

    I firmly believe that however long therapy lasts, medication should always have an end goal in sight.

  50. Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    But but but if I start examining the numbing vacuousness of my life, I might miss the next episode of Jersey Shore!  What then, smart guy???

  51. Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 4:39 pm #

    hmmm, I was never on SSRIs but stuff like Bupropion (marketed as Wellbutrin, Zyban, Voxra, Budeprion, or Aplenzin) worked well for me.  You seem reasonably knowledgable on the subject and I want to pick your brain in regard to MDMA, SSRIs and non-SSRI medication for depression, but I’m having trouble formulating the right question.

  52. Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    It has been shown that anti-depressants dont even really work
    Gotta disagree there, guy, and ask for links to studies.  This may or may not be true for SSRIs, but non-SSRI stuff does indeed have a positive effect in the majority of cases (according to my doctor).  If I recall correctly, no one is sure why stuff like Wellbutrin does the things it does–it’s most certainly not a placebo, as I noted upthread its basically a wad of vastly different side-effects and you choose the ones you want and try to suppress the ones you don’t want–but in my case, it helped greatly in conjunction with therapy.  

  53. Tuna Ghost July 23, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    After all “getting angry” and “playing the piano” are just behaviors.
    This is a nonsense statement.  These two in no way belong in the same category; playing the piano is not a “behavior” in the same sense that getting angry is.  You can even claim they are both simply expressions of emotions, as it is very easy to play music and not be expressing anything.  

    And for the record, not all psychiatrists simply throw pills at every problem they come across.  Its best to think of them as psychologists with medical degrees.  

  54. guest July 29, 2011 at 3:28 am #

    Psychologists don’t prescribe medication, at least not in most states.  They are trained to sit and talk through the issues, not just make them go away with a magic pill.  Managed Care has ruined the field of health.  15 minutes and $200 later and you’re cured is what the insurance companies demand.  What’s good for you in the long run is rarely considered.

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