• http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Too bad the panel didn’t include Storm Constantine…she’s a lively add to any discussion of the supernatural, mythology and the like…and a regular attendee of Dragon Con

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Too bad the panel didn’t include Storm Constantine…she’s a lively add to any discussion of the supernatural, mythology and the like…and a regular attendee of Dragon Con

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Too bad the panel didn’t include Storm Constantine…she’s a lively add to any discussion of the supernatural, mythology and the like…and a regular attendee of Dragon Con

  • jasonpaulhayes

    The “2012 Movement” is a pseudo-scientific, pseudo-spiritual concept rejected by Mayan scholars as a bastardization of their culture in the name of selling New Age literature and it is exactly that. Its primary concept is derived from a naive blending of the Mayan long count calendar, Gregorian (30 day) calendar and the 13 Moon (28 day) calendar that was originated within a book by Jose Arguelles titled “A Transformative Vision”. Jose stated that the 2012 movement would not exist without his writings but failed to state that he made the whole thing up … with grade school arithmetic none the less. Jose died March 23, 2011 and that’s GOOD, piss on his grave for shitting on Mayan culture and being an outright New Age Jackass. That’s all there is to know about the subject, glad I could settle the debate for everyone!

    • OneFellSwoop

      Exactly! You have to wonder what wares they will start hawking the second the clock hits December 22nd and absolutely nothing has changed. “Oh wait, we made a slight miscalculation! What we actually meant to say…”, just like that whacko fundie pastor who keeps pushing back the date of the so-called “apocalypse”. What a sad commentary on our “culture” when there are so many gullible, mindless fools who willingly follow such blather. It’s almost enough to make a sane/rational person wish that the “rapture” was real so that they would all be taken away in one fell swoop…

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

       So I take it you have not actually watched the video, read Fingerprints of the Gods, or understood  the latest research confirming massive catastrophic events being responsible for the die off of over 50% of mega fauna within the last 13,000 years.  Had you watched the video you might have noticed this is what was offered by the above mentioned panelists primarily.

      I agree that there is a massive amount of new age bunk that has grown up around the very real significance of particular precessional dates, as encoded and referenced in numerous cultures throughout the world.  This is what is being discussed by Graham, Gary, and Randall.Please watch the video before you lump it in with the undiscerning wide eyed new agers who invoke the singularity, 5th dimensional ascension or other new fangled devices to explain what is happening.  Just because the trigger word of 2012 was referenced doesn’t mean it’s Roland Emmerich’s version that is supported in this conversation.

      At the same time, you have to be honest.  Something is happening. Many things it seems, are reaching a boil.  Whether it be the push for globalization, the battle between the haves and have nots, mainstream media being exposed as nothing more than a corporate mouth piece for endless war and consumerism, the unheralded access to information as provided by the internet and the resultant shift in consciousness that is enabled by a one way street becoming a freeway, or the increasing realization that false flag terror is and has been used by governments to dominate their subjects (Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11, 7/7 etc etc)  the simultaneity of this level of revelation is staggering.  Therefore the real import of this subject may be lost on many but definitely not all.  The discussion is surely still viable.  It just needs to mature beyond it’s initiatory stage.

      Thankfully we have mature researchers who are able to parse this information and find it’s root in ancient systems whose revelations require a serious reconsideration of the origins and accuracy of our shared “his- story”  We still can’t explain the pyramids from an engineering perspective, let alone why they would have created in them with perfect archaeoastronomical alignments.  Let’s not through out the baby with the bath water.

      I too have my misgivings about the bastardization of any culture by those who would turn a sacred concept of time into another new age fling, I feel your pain, just be sure to direct it at those responsible rather than those who are capable of articulating  the scientific validity of precessional numbers and their relationship to massive changes in culture, climate and civilization all together.

      Thank you.

      -Camron

      • jasonpaulhayes

        Personal attacks will never help your case whatsoever but that was cute … I watched the video and I’ll reply how I choose. You seem very entrenched in your views about what equates to spoon fed wisdom, which is really just what you believe to be true.  You (as well as these authors) are incredibly naive and far too faith and belief based to even begin to attempt to argue any points you might have. Believe what you want, but I’m on the opinion faith and belief should be outlawed for this very reason, it stifles progress. Virtually every word spoken in the video is complete bullshit and youll never get it because listening, for you (and these authors), is just waiting for your next turn to speak. I never claimed to be right, I’m just raising your awareness that I am. In reality, you could learn more from watching Penn & Tellers episode of Bullshit “Apocalypse” they articulated my points much better (link below).

        “Fingerprints of the God” is FICTION and all these books you are defending as scientific are FICTION!

        http://stagevu.com/video/ftphycutzibt

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

          As Joshua Blakeney reminds us, “If you want to refute a scholar, you’d take one argument and seek to refute it”.

          Now is your chance.  What part of Graham, Gary, or Randall’s research do you wish to refute?  Please state what exactly and your own counter evidence.  No need for personal attacks as you yourself have stated, I think you will find I did not attack you whatsoever if you reread my statement above.

          If you are unwilling to present evidence, I nor anyone else can pretend to take your vitriolic diatribes seriously.

          Best wishes.

          -Camron

        • Guest

          You are an asshole who still failed to hear anything Camron said because you already have your mind made up as to what is “right.”  I don’t believe the 2012 date to be the actual day of some event, but there is NO DOUBT whatsoever that things ARE changing and have been changing and will eventually reach a point that has NEVER been reached before BY 2012.  If you choose not to believe that, it’s OK.  I’m not going to argue with you, but you don’t have to come here and be a prick to people who are just trying to exchange ideas and have a discussion.  And the fact, you referenced Penn & Teller is laughable.

          • jasonpaulhayes

            Am I wrong?

            You’re not wrong Walter. You’re just an asshole.

            Okay then.

            “A fool and his wealth are easily parted” that’s where this Starts and Ends. Its a Science-Fiction BOOK SELLING CAMPAIGN so who really gives a shit what you “Believe”? NOBODY, EVER! Just watch that fucking episode of Bullshit, it will show you quite simply where the flaws in your logic are so you can move on to REAL Books.

          • jasonpaulhayes

            Am I wrong?

            You’re not wrong Walter. You’re just an asshole.

            Okay then.

            “A fool and his wealth are easily parted” that’s where this Starts and Ends. Its a Science-Fiction BOOK SELLING CAMPAIGN so who really gives a shit what you “Believe”? NOBODY, EVER! Just watch that fucking episode of Bullshit, it will show you quite simply where the flaws in your logic are so you can move on to REAL Books.

  • http://twitter.com/jasonpaulhayes jasonpaulhayes

    The “2012 Movement” is a pseudo-scientific, pseudo-spiritual concept rejected by Mayan scholars as a bastardization of their culture in the name of selling New Age literature and it is exactly that. Its primary concept is derived from a naive blending of the Mayan long count calendar, Gregorian (30 day) calendar and the 13 Moon (28 day) calendar that was originated within a book by Jose Arguelles titled “A Transformative Vision”. Jose stated that the 2012 movement would not exist without his writings but failed to state that he made the whole thing up … with grade school arithmetic none the less. Jose died March 23, 2011 and that’s GOOD, piss on his grave for shitting on Mayan culture and being an outright New Age Jackass. That’s all there is to know about the subject, glad I could settle the debate for everyone!

  • Dumbster47

    Graham Hancock is a compulsive fabulist and liar and Disinformation should be ashamed of being in the same room as him. 

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

      Care to substantiate your slander whatsoever Dumbster?
      Sheez.  If you are going to level a criticism at least be willing to try to back it up.

    • Jin The Ninja

      Graham has produced some great works. For you to accuse him of fabrications (troll)  is a total joke

    • Dumbster47

      I’m sorry, I thought this was all too well known.

      Here: http://the2012deception.net/?cat=30

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

        That is a link to a blog.  Is there a specific refutation you have at all?

  • Dumbster47

    Graham Hancock is a compulsive fabulist and liar and Disinformation should be ashamed of being in the same room as him. 

  • OneFellSwoop

    Exactly! You have to wonder what wares they will start hawking the second the clock hits December 22nd and absolutely nothing has changed. “Oh wait, we made a slight miscalculation! What we actually meant to say…”, just like that whacko fundie pastor who keeps pushing back the date of the so-called “apocalypse”. What a sad commentary on our “culture” when there are so many gullible, mindless fools who willingly follow such blather. It’s almost enough to make a sane/rational person wish that the “rapture” was real so that they would all be taken away in one fell swoop…

  • Yith

    I bought Hancock’s book Supernatural at a local New Age bookstore.  Interesting read… though I don’t believe in much of anything he had to say.  He, Daniel Pinchbeck and a few others are, I believe, sincere in what they write; I can’t say the same for people like Wilcox and Icke.  What I wonder is:  what attracts me to those sort of books (mysticism, new age, conspiracies, etc.)?  Is there a me in a parallel universe that actually believes this stuff… and that somehow the two of us are entangled?

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

      There must be some attraction to the material. I would just ask that you qualify your statements.  For example, what exactly do you not believe in?  Also it is not Graham’s intention that anyone take him at face value with any of his research.  He makes this explicitly clear in the beginning and throughout every book I’ve read of his.  He also very openly shares his own doubts, bias and fears when entering into these realms to chronicle and experience the supernatural.  Of course the substances he utilizes in this journalistic quest are equal opportunity experience providers. :)

      I myself have a hard time with those in the new age community who don’t believe in qualifying their research with studies, data, peer review etc.  There is a big difference between researchers like Graham and Randall and others who are unwilling to debate their findings amongst skeptical scientists. 

      • Yith

        What do I not believe in?  That experiences under Ayahuasca and other “sacred medicines” are `real’– that their existence is not wholly dependent on the person taking the substances; that these experiences have an “objective ontological” aspect.  A nice compact summary that has pretty much all in one place what I disbelieve can be found on page 93 of Supernatural, under the heading “Scientific Sacrilige” — look it up.

        I haven’t read Fingerprints of the Gods, but it stikes me as the more believeable of his works. 

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

          The next question is do you have any personal experience with any of the plant teachers that Graham imbibes and describes in Supernatural?

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Sacred Geometry International

          Just reread page 93 on as you requested.  Not sure what part you disagree with or based on what merit?  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I would just hope that you could clarify for the sake of discussion what exactly you take issue with. 

          The few pages I read seem to very well explain the unwillingness of the scientific community to have the bedrock assumptions of their faith (however ontologically sound it appears to be) challenged by direct experience.

           Graham summarizes this aptly with the following,

           “What confidence can we possibly have in anything we’ve been told, when the very scientists who pronounce so loftily on the non-existence of spirits and the impossibility of the supernatural turn out to never have experienced a deeply altered state of consciousness in their lives and profess to hate and despise the plants that could offer them such an experience in an instant?  Their assesments of hallucinatory realms and beings are therefore based exclusively on their preconceptions about the nature of reality rather than on direct personal knowledge; as such they should rightly be disregarded.

          As Albert Einstein offered.  “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance”.

          Thank you.

          -Camron

          • Yith

            I disagree with practically that whole section… can’t you read?  That’s not to say that I `condemn’ Hancock — I think  he is simply mistaken. 

            Probably most scientists operate under the default assumption, having never taken psychedelics, that when others take them what they see is simply an hallucination, and has no independent existence; but that doesn’t mean that those scientists would feel any different had they taken the substances — they would likely say, “Wow!  What a great hallucination!”. What *might* convince them that these experiences have a reality all their own is if there were some hard data on their consistency across times and cultures, and that that consistency could not be explained by some other mechanisms (e.g. if evolution has endowed humans with a specific set of visual cortex neurons that code for fear and recognition of snakes, and if ayahuasca activates that part of the brain, then very likely ayahuasca visions of snakes are simply hallucinations and not glimpses of some higher reality).  Hancock’s book is full of what I would call anecdotal evidence of such consistency, and as such it simply doesn’t convince me.

            When I was a child I used to believe in the supernatural.  Any program on TV that told of ghosts or witchcraft or metaphysics, I believed (Amityville, Manitou, and The Exorcist scared the shit out of me); I even once believed in god when my mind was young and open.  One of my favorite shows on TV was “That’s Incredible”.  You’re probably too young to know about it, but I’m sure you could find it on youtube.  Anyways, I distinctly remember one episode that had this guy who claimed to have telekinetic powers — that he could move the pages of a book just with his mind.  I forget his name, but had seen him on other TV shows.  People like him had given me hope as a young boy that the world was full of hidden dimensions and magic, and that if we worked at it we too could tap into them. 

            Just when the guy was about to perform his act, James Randi rose from the audience and went up on stage with a bag of styrofoam to place all around his props.  The idea was that the styrofoam would move in the gentlest of breezes, thereby indicating the presence of an air current such as produced by the careful control of ones breath (as employed by a charlatan to move the book pages).  Well, the guy couldn’t move the pages with the styrofoam there, and said something like that their static electricity must be interfering with his powers.  Even at that young age I could tell he was lying… and then a piece of me died right there in the living room glued to the TV.  The hope I had been sold was a false hope, and I became much more skeptical after that.  Seriously! 

            In time I learned that the world really is full of “hidden dimensions” and a kind of magic, but that such is not to be found in the writings of gurus or in the hallucinations of highs.  It CAN, however, be found in the natural philosophy of the Invisible College (and its modern day incarnation) and in the sorcery of imagination trapped forever between the pages of a book.

            Let me now leave you with a word for the day.  That word is “judgment”, as in “good judgment” and not as in “judgment of others”.  Good judgment is a heuristic that we employ to make decisions based on experience.  The fact of the matter is that human lifespan is finite and there is only a finite amount of time in each day; and so, we cannot entertain every idea that enters our minds — we must discriminate.  And sometimes that discrimination involves not even considering the facts presented to us, but rather using our general knowledge of the world and the context within which those facts are given.  For example, if someone told me that all ancient humans were aliens and that they had evidence of such, I would simply ignore it.  Why?  Because I  know that humans are 98% genetically similar to apes, and that apes are genetically similar to monkeys, which are in turn genetically similar to lemurs, and so on.  You see, when you consider the statement “all ancient humans were aliens” within the context of all life on earth, it becomes a silly proposition, requiring one to either believe that the field of genetics is all wrong; or that life on different worlds evolved exactly the same, right down to almost the whole genome; or that ancient humans started on earth, traveled to the stars, and then returned (making them “from earth” if you go back far enough); or… 

            My good judgment tells me that what a person sees when he or she uses psychedelics is an hallucination, and nothing more than that.  My mind is closed.  Is yours?

          • Yith

            After an internet search, I discovered that the guy Randi took down was named James Hydrick, who indeed appeared on That’s Incredible; however the show where he was DEBUNKED was That’s My Line:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc

            My memory is not perfect, obviously, but I got the broad details right… and that was from 30 years ago!

    • Jin The Ninja

      I have to echo cameron below,

      Supernatural was his most experiential book by FAR.

      based on his own personal experiences with iboga and ayuhuasca, not to mention the anthropological studies found within are relatively mainstream. 

      I do not feel his position was untenable due to the fact he was discussing consciousness and altered states which are defined by the perceptions of those experiencing them.

  • Yith

    I bought Hancock’s book Supernatural at a local New Age bookstore.  Interesting read… though I don’t believe in much of anything he had to say.  He, Daniel Pinchbeck and a few others are, I believe, sincere in what they write; I can’t say the same for people like Wilcox and Icke.  What I wonder is:  what attracts me to those sort of books (mysticism, new age, conspiracies, etc.)?  Is there a me in a parallel universe that actually believes this stuff… and that somehow the two of us are entangled?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

     So I take it you have not actually watched the video, read Fingerprints of the Gods, or understood  the latest research confirming massive catastrophic events being responsible for the die off of over 50% of mega fauna within the last 13,000 years.  Had you watched the video you might have noticed this is what was offered by the above mentioned panelists primarily.

    I agree that there is a massive amount of new age bunk that has grown up around the very real significance of particular precessional dates, as encoded and referenced in numerous cultures throughout the world.  This is what is being discussed by Graham, Gary, and Randall.Please watch the video before you lump it in with the undiscerning wide eyed new agers who invoke the singularity, 5th dimensional ascension or other new fangled devices to explain what is happening.  Just because the trigger word of 2012 was referenced doesn’t mean it’s Roland Emmerich’s version that is supported in this conversation.

    At the same time, you have to be honest.  Something is happening. Many things it seems, are reaching a boil.  Whether it be the push for globalization, the battle between the haves and have nots, mainstream media being exposed as nothing more than a corporate mouth piece for endless war and consumerism, the unheralded access to information as provided by the internet and the resultant shift in consciousness that is enabled by a one way street becoming a freeway, or the increasing realization that false flag terror is and has been used by governments to dominate their subjects (Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11, 7/7 etc etc)  the simultaneity of this level of revelation is staggering.  Therefore the real import of this subject may be lost on many but definitely not all.  The discussion is surely still viable.  It just needs to mature beyond it’s initiatory stage.

    Thankfully we have mature researchers who are able to parse this information and find it’s root in ancient systems whose revelations require a serious reconsideration of the origins and accuracy of our shared “his- story”  We still can’t explain the pyramids from an engineering perspective, let alone why they would have created in them with perfect archaeoastronomical alignments.  Let’s not through out the baby with the bath water.

    I too have my misgivings about the bastardization of any culture by those who would turn a sacred concept of time into another new age fling, I feel your pain, just be sure to direct it at those responsible rather than those who are capable of articulating  the scientific validity of precessional numbers and their relationship to massive changes in culture, climate and civilization all together.

    Thank you.

    -Camron

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

    Care to substantiate your slander whatsoever Dumbster?
    Sheez.  If you are going to level a criticism at least be willing to try to back it up.

  • Anonymous

    Graham has produced some great works. For you to accuse him of fabrications (troll)  is a total joke

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

    There must be some attraction to the material. I would just ask that you qualify your statements.  For example, what exactly do you not believe in?  Also it is not Graham’s intention that anyone take him at face value with any of his research.  He makes this explicitly clear in the beginning and throughout every book I’ve read of his.  He also very openly shares his own doubts, bias and fears when entering into these realms to chronicle and experience the supernatural.  Of course the substances he utilizes in this journalistic quest are equal opportunity experience providers. :)

    I myself have a hard time with those in the new age community who don’t believe in qualifying their research with studies, data, peer review etc.  There is a big difference between researchers like Graham and Randall and others who are unwilling to debate their findings amongst skeptical scientists. 

  • Anonymous

    I have to echo cameron below,

    Supernatural was his most experiential book by FAR.

    based on his own personal experiences with iboga and ayuhuasca, not to mention the anthropological studies found within are relatively mainstream. 

    I do not feel his position was untenable due to the fact he was discussing consciousness and altered states which are defined by the perceptions of those experiencing them.

  • Yith

    What do I not believe in?  That experiences under Ayahuasca and other “sacred medicines” are `real’– that their existence is not wholly dependent on the person taking the substances; that these experiences have an “objective ontological” aspect.  A nice compact summary that has pretty much all in one place what I disbelieve can be found on page 93 of Supernatural, under the heading “Scientific Sacrilige” — look it up.

    I haven’t read Fingerprints of the Gods, but it stikes me as the more believeable of his works. 

  • Dumbster47

    I’m sorry, I thought this was all too well known.

    Here: http://the2012deception.net/?cat=30

  • http://twitter.com/jasonpaulhayes jasonpaulhayes

    Personal attacks will never help your case whatsoever but that was cute … I watched the video and I’ll reply how I choose. You seem very entrenched in your views about what equates to spoon fed wisdom, which is really just what you believe to be true.  You (as well as these authors) are incredibly naive and far too faith and belief based to even begin to attempt to argue any points you might have. Believe what you want, but I’m on the opinion faith and belief should be outlawed for this very reason, it stifles progress. Virtually every word spoken in the video is complete bullshit and youll never get it because listening, for you, is just waiting for your next turn to speak. I never claimed to be right, I’m just raising your awareness that I am.

    “Fingerprints of the God” is FICTION and all these books you are defending as scientific are FICTION!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

    As Joshua Blakeney reminds us, “If you want to refute a scholar, you’d take one argument and seek to refute it”.

    Now is your chance.  What part of Graham, Gary, or Randall’s research do you wish to refute?  Please state what exactly and your own counter evidence.  No need for personal attacks as you yourself have stated, I think you will find I did not attack you whatsoever if you reread my statement above.

    If you are unwilling to present evidence, I nor anyone else can pretend to take your vitriolic diatribes seriously.

    Best wishes.

    -Camron

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

    That is a link to a blog.  Is there a specific refutation you have at all?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

    The next question is do you have any personal experience with any of the plant teachers that Graham imbibes and describes in Supernatural?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camron-Wiltshire/510662346 Camron Wiltshire

    Just reread page 93 on as you requested.  Not sure what part you disagree with or based on what merit?  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I would just hope that you could clarify for the sake of discussion what exactly you take issue with. 

    The few pages I read seem to very well explain the unwillingness of the scientific community to have the bedrock assumptions of their faith (however ontologically sound it appears to be) challenged by direct experience.

     Graham summarizes this aptly with the following,

     “What confidence can we possibly have in anything we’ve been told, when the very scientists who pronounce so loftily on the non-existence of spirits and the impossibility of the supernatural turn out to never have experienced a deeply altered state of consciousness in their lives and profess to hate and despise the plants that could offer them such an experience in an instant?  Their assesments of hallucinatory realms and beings are therefore based exclusively on their preconceptions about the nature of reality rather than on direct personal knowledge; as such they should rightly be disregarded.

    As Albert Einstein offered.  “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance”.

    Thank you.

    -Camron

  • http://madmonq.wordpress.com madmonq

    Great.  Got my ticket.  Now all I have to do is wait in line for the 79 fucking hours it takes to get into the Dragon fucking Con itself.  Thank goodness they are that organized.

    That’s my dog in this fight.

  • postpunkprometheus

    Great.  Got my ticket.  Now all I have to do is wait in line for the 79 fucking hours it takes to get into the Dragon fucking Con itself.  Thank goodness they are that organized.

    That’s my dog in this fight.

  • Guest

    You are an asshole who still failed to hear anything Camron said because you already have your mind made up as to what is “right.”  I don’t believe the 2012 date to be the actual day of some event, but there is NO DOUBT whatsoever that things ARE changing and have been changing and will eventually reach a point that has NEVER been reached before BY 2012.  If you choose not to believe that, it’s OK.  I’m not going to argue with you, but you don’t have to come here and be a prick to people who are just trying to exchange ideas and have a discussion.  And the fact, you referenced Penn & Teller is laughable.

  • http://twitter.com/jasonpaulhayes jasonpaulhayes

    Am I wrong?

    You’re not wrong Walter. You’re just an asshole.

    Okay then.

  • Yith

    I disagree with practically that whole section… can’t you read?  That’s not to say that I `condemn’ Hancock — I think  he is simply mistaken. 

    Probably most scientists operate under the default assumption, having never taken psychedelics, that when others take them what they see is simply an hallucination, and has no independent existence; but that doesn’t mean that those scientists would feel any different had they taken the substances — they would likely say, “Wow!  What a great hallucination!”. What *might* convince them that these experiences have a reality all their own is if there were some hard data on their consistency across times and cultures, and that that consistency could not be explained by some other mechanisms (e.g. if evolution has endowed humans with a specific set of visual cortex neurons that code for fear and recognition of snakes, and if ayahuasca activates that part of the brain, then very likely ayahuasca visions of snakes are simply hallucinations and not glimpses of some higher reality).  Hancock’s book is full of what I would call anecdotal evidence of such consistency, and as such it simply doesn’t convince me.

    When I was a child I used to believe in the supernatural.  Any program on TV that told of ghosts or witchcraft or metaphysics, I believed (Amityville, Manitou, and The Exorcist scared the shit out of me); I even once believed in god when my mind was young and open.  One of my favorite shows on TV was “That’s Incredible”.  You’re probably too young to know about it, but I’m sure you could find it on youtube.  Anyways, I distinctly remember one episode that had this guy who claimed to have telekinetic powers — that he could move the pages of a book just with his mind.  I forget his name, but had seen him on other TV shows.  People like him had given me hope as a young boy that the world was full of hidden dimensions and magic, and that if we worked at it we too could tap into them. 

    Just when the guy was about to perform his act, James Randi rose from the audience and went up on stage with a bag of styrofoam to place all around his props.  The idea was that the styrofoam would move in the gentlest of breezes, thereby indicating the presence of an air current such as produced by the careful control of ones breath (as employed by a charlatan to move the book pages).  Well, the guy couldn’t move the pages with the styrofoam there, and said something like that their static electricity must be interfering with his powers.  Even at that young age I could tell he was lying… and then a piece of me died right there in the living room glued to the TV.  The hope I had been sold was a false hope, and I became much more skeptical after that.  Seriously! 

    In time I learned that the world really is full of “hidden dimensions” and a kind of magic, but that such is not to be found in the writings of gurus or in the hallucinations of highs.  It CAN, however, be found in the natural philosophy of the Invisible College (and its modern day incarnation) and in the sorcery of imagination trapped forever between the pages of a book.

    Let me now leave you with a word for the day.  That word is “judgment”, as in “good judgment” and not as in “judgment of others”.  Good judgment is a heuristic that we employ to make decisions based on experience.  The fact of the matter is that human lifespan is finite and there is only a finite amount of time in each day; and so, we cannot entertain every idea that enters our minds — we must discriminate.  And sometimes that discrimination involves not even considering the facts presented to us, but rather using our general knowledge of the world and the context within which those facts are given.  For example, if someone told me that all ancient humans were aliens and that they had evidence of such, I would simply ignore it.  Why?  Because I  know that humans are 98% genetically similar to apes, and that apes are genetically similar to monkeys, which are in turn genetically similar to lemurs, and so on.  You see, when you consider the statement “all ancient humans were aliens” within the context of all life on earth, it becomes a silly proposition, requiring one to either believe that the field of genetics is all wrong; or that life on different worlds evolved exactly the same, right down to almost the whole genome; or that ancient humans started on earth, traveled to the stars, and then returned (making them “from earth” if you go back far enough); or… 

    My good judgment tells me that what a person sees when he or she uses psychedelics is an hallucination, and nothing more than that.  My mind is closed.  Is yours?

  • Yith

    I disagree with practically that whole section… can’t you read?  That’s not to say that I `condemn’ Hancock — I think  he is simply mistaken. 

    Probably most scientists operate under the default assumption, having never taken psychedelics, that when others take them what they see is simply an hallucination, and has no independent existence; but that doesn’t mean that those scientists would feel any different had they taken the substances — they would likely say, “Wow!  What a great hallucination!”. What *might* convince them that these experiences have a reality all their own is if there were some hard data on their consistency across times and cultures, and that that consistency could not be explained by some other mechanisms (e.g. if evolution has endowed humans with a specific set of visual cortex neurons that code for fear and recognition of snakes, and if ayahuasca activates that part of the brain, then very likely ayahuasca visions of snakes are simply hallucinations and not glimpses of some higher reality).  Hancock’s book is full of what I would call anecdotal evidence of such consistency, and as such it simply doesn’t convince me.

    When I was a child I used to believe in the supernatural.  Any program on TV that told of ghosts or witchcraft or metaphysics, I believed (Amityville, Manitou, and The Exorcist scared the shit out of me); I even once believed in god when my mind was young and open.  One of my favorite shows on TV was “That’s Incredible”.  You’re probably too young to know about it, but I’m sure you could find it on youtube.  Anyways, I distinctly remember one episode that had this guy who claimed to have telekinetic powers — that he could move the pages of a book just with his mind.  I forget his name, but had seen him on other TV shows.  People like him had given me hope as a young boy that the world was full of hidden dimensions and magic, and that if we worked at it we too could tap into them. 

    Just when the guy was about to perform his act, James Randi rose from the audience and went up on stage with a bag of styrofoam to place all around his props.  The idea was that the styrofoam would move in the gentlest of breezes, thereby indicating the presence of an air current such as produced by the careful control of ones breath (as employed by a charlatan to move the book pages).  Well, the guy couldn’t move the pages with the styrofoam there, and said something like that their static electricity must be interfering with his powers.  Even at that young age I could tell he was lying… and then a piece of me died right there in the living room glued to the TV.  The hope I had been sold was a false hope, and I became much more skeptical after that.  Seriously! 

    In time I learned that the world really is full of “hidden dimensions” and a kind of magic, but that such is not to be found in the writings of gurus or in the hallucinations of highs.  It CAN, however, be found in the natural philosophy of the Invisible College (and its modern day incarnation) and in the sorcery of imagination trapped forever between the pages of a book.

    Let me now leave you with a word for the day.  That word is “judgment”, as in “good judgment” and not as in “judgment of others”.  Good judgment is a heuristic that we employ to make decisions based on experience.  The fact of the matter is that human lifespan is finite and there is only a finite amount of time in each day; and so, we cannot entertain every idea that enters our minds — we must discriminate.  And sometimes that discrimination involves not even considering the facts presented to us, but rather using our general knowledge of the world and the context within which those facts are given.  For example, if someone told me that all ancient humans were aliens and that they had evidence of such, I would simply ignore it.  Why?  Because I  know that humans are 98% genetically similar to apes, and that apes are genetically similar to monkeys, which are in turn genetically similar to lemurs, and so on.  You see, when you consider the statement “all ancient humans were aliens” within the context of all life on earth, it becomes a silly proposition, requiring one to either believe that the field of genetics is all wrong; or that life on different worlds evolved exactly the same, right down to almost the whole genome; or that ancient humans started on earth, traveled to the stars, and then returned (making them “from earth” if you go back far enough); or… 

    My good judgment tells me that what a person sees when he or she uses psychedelics is an hallucination, and nothing more than that.  My mind is closed.  Is yours?

  • Yith

    After an internet search, I discovered that the guy Randi took down was named James Hydrick, who indeed appeared on That’s Incredible; however the show where he was DEBUNKED was That’s My Line:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc

    My memory is not perfect, obviously, but I got the broad details right… and that was from 30 years ago!

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