In Defense of the Hipster: Part 2

HipsterShark2PART 2: AUTHENTICITY IS BULLSHIT, or: POP IS THE NEW PUNK

(Part 1, titled “What Is A Hipster, And Why Does Everyone Hate Them? or: You’re So Fake (And So Am I), can be found here.)

As noted in Part 1, the main thrust of the criticisms against hipsters have roots in a notion of authenticity.  Lorentz mentions the words “authentic” and “inauthentic” a dozen times in his article, and the Adbusters piece is just as bad. It’s a fair charge to say that hipsters fetishize the authentic, as Lorentz does. This is hardly unique to hipsters, though; one can find it in practically any sub-culture. It’s so common that I find it disingenuous to use it as a criticism of hipsters and Hipsterism. The problem, as I see it, is that notion of authenticity being used is utter bullshit.

Some years ago, before I became a hipster or had even heard of hipsters, I was confirmed as “real” at a party by a group of counter-culture kids. There were several reasons given. First, I was living in a “real” neighborhood. At that time my rundown flop of a house was located in a neighborhood of Detroit, a mostly working-class ethnic neighborhood that was deemed hip by the minority of caucasian youths living there. It was popular for a number of reasons: it was much safer than the surrounding areas, close to a University and had been, even back when it was predominantly white, an ethnic neighborhood (Polish). Second, I was working two jobs to pay my way through school.  I was living month-to-month, sometimes bills didn’t get paid and I lived for months on brown rice and Siracha stolen from the Chinese restaurant at which I was employed. Third, I had a pretty good drug habit going, the likes of which would eventually take the life of a couple friends later on down the road.

I contemplated this. Apparently, making several terrible choices in the suburbs that resulted in losing my funding for school and having to move to the significantly cheaper housing in the city had made me “real”.  And to think I didn’t even know I was “fake” when I was out in the suburbs!  Apparently, my gritty, dirty, dangerous life meant I was “real” and not some automaton or something.

This notion of realness, of authenticity, is very popular today. Grit and dirt = real.  Danger = real.  This is despite the fact that all of the above can be acquired without much effort: you can move to a shitty-but-hip neighborhood, you can give up your scholarship and work all the time, and believe you me you can pick up a substance-abuse problem with startling ease.

The absurdity soon makes itself apparent. If it can be faked with ease, where is the value of its authenticity? Someone doing the three steps listed above can have just as “real” a life as I was leading.  It would be indistinguishable from the life of someone who ended up there by accident or, like in my case, as the result of poor decision-making skills. The real life can be acquired, and when it is, does that person miraculously go from “fake” to “real”? How does that work? If all the ways one uses to define oneself as authentic are, in a way, “for sale”, how authentic can one’s identity really be?

The primary problem with the counterculture is its rebellion against perceived inauthenticity, against the manufactured lifestyle represented by prime-time television and pop culture.  The problem lies in where we are running to, in what we are clinging to instead of the manufactured lifestyle. We think we are leaving image-without-substance behind and embracing realness, embracing something with meaning and substance. We are doing no such thing.  We’re just falling for a different kind of deception.

They say that if you’re going to steal, then steal from the best.  With that in mind, I offer you an excerpt by Warren Ellis from his discontinued series Doktor Sleepless:

Now, after seeing hordes of people rebelling against Pop and seeking refuge in authenticity, I see his point. Punk, now, is as baldly selling an image, a brand, as any bit of pop culture. It’s about as authentic as Bob Dylan, and the same goes for pretty much every counter-culture.

How do you rebel, then, when all the culture rebels are buying into bullshit notions of authenticity?  What do you do when the people rebelling against the image and the spectacle of pop culture are indulging in an image and a spectacle of their own? The answer is obvious: go the other direction. Embrace the shallowness, embrace the trends that have a half-life of half a season, embrace the superficial fashion and culture that Hipsterism provides. If its authenticity you’re after, be like me.  Be a Real Fake. Be sincere in your devotion to affectations, in the shallow trends…

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144 Responses to In Defense of the Hipster: Part 2

  1. Anonymous August 21, 2011 at 4:15 am #

    Well thanks for sharing. It was a very authentic experience.

  2. Redacted August 21, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    Well thanks for sharing. It was a very authentic experience.

    • Steve August 21, 2011 at 2:04 am #

      I saw what you did there…

  3. Chris Mounce August 21, 2011 at 4:45 am #

    All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players. Maybe the hipsters have taken this to heart and decided to ham it up? An interesting arguement but I excpet no less from my pal TunaGhost.

  4. Chris Mounce August 21, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players. Maybe the hipsters have taken this to heart and decided to ham it up? An interesting arguement but I excpet no less from my pal TunaGhost.

  5. Random Punk August 21, 2011 at 5:01 am #

    “POP IS THE NEW PUNK”No.

  6. Random Punk August 21, 2011 at 1:01 am #

    “POP IS THE NEW PUNK”No.

  7. D Block August 21, 2011 at 5:08 am #

    In offense of the hipster: They’re gay.

  8. D Block August 21, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    In offense of the hipster: They’re gay.

    • Tuna Ghost August 22, 2011 at 8:44 am #

      Yes, I like them too

  9. DeepCough August 21, 2011 at 5:49 am #

    The 21st century hipster is the final devolution of what started with the Beatniks and was supposed to be a rebellious identity toward The Establisment and the Roman named Status Quo: it is now purely faddish, a total acceptance of Madison Ave placative marketing that brands things as “real” to encourage consumerism to that segment of the population that would be the most averse to it, but ironically enough, engorges itself the most on it.

    And that’s why all hipsters, especially Tuna Ghost, are fucking scum.

  10. DeepCough August 21, 2011 at 1:49 am #

    The 21st century hipster is the final devolution of what started with the Beatniks and was supposed to be a rebellious identity toward The Establisment and the Roman named Status Quo: it is now purely faddish, a total acceptance of Madison Ave placative marketing that brands things as “real” to encourage consumerism to that segment of the population that would be the most averse to it, but ironically enough, engorges itself the most on it.

    And that’s why all hipsters, especially Tuna Ghost, are fucking scum.

    • Ilovesteel August 21, 2011 at 2:06 am #

      GOD DAMN RIGHT! Preach on brother.

    • Nuggett August 21, 2011 at 5:38 pm #

      HAHAHA.  Nail on the head.  Bravo.

    • DeepCough August 22, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

      For those in need of catharsis after this puke-enducing apology of hipsterdom, I recommend a healthy dose of this fun art game called appropriately enough “Die Hipster.”

      http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/563837

  11. Smash August 21, 2011 at 6:04 am #

    Shut the fuck up your self aggrandizing jack off bore. 

  12. Steve August 21, 2011 at 6:04 am #

    I saw what you did there…

  13. Smash August 21, 2011 at 2:04 am #

    Shut the fuck up your self aggrandizing jack off bore. 

    • justagirl August 22, 2011 at 11:05 am #

      LOL!  woah!  you sick monster!!

  14. Ilovesteel August 21, 2011 at 6:06 am #

    GOD DAMN RIGHT! Preach on brother.

  15. John Doe August 21, 2011 at 6:36 am #

    “Hipster”….just another label to pigeonhole and limit ourselves or one another. When I was in my teens and 20-something, I wholeheartedly embraced whatever label that identified me as being into whatever I was at the time…punk, goth, metalhead, geek, liberal, rivethead, libertarian, anarchist, etc…as I get older, I find that more and more absurd. There’s enough of these tribalistic divisions in this world already, where we already pigeonhole and limit ourselves and each other according to ethnicity, race, religion, politics…in a more interconnected world, we should be looking towards the commonality in us all, rather than what separates us. But I’m just wasting my breath here, as these kinds of words fall on deaf ears…

  16. John Doe August 21, 2011 at 2:36 am #

    “Hipster”….just another label to pigeonhole and limit ourselves or one another. When I was in my teens and 20-something, I wholeheartedly embraced whatever label that identified me as being into whatever I was at the time…punk, goth, metalhead, geek, liberal, rivethead, libertarian, anarchist, etc…as I get older, I find that more and more absurd. There’s enough of these tribalistic divisions in this world already, where we already pigeonhole and limit ourselves and each other according to ethnicity, race, religion, politics…in a more interconnected world, we should be looking towards the commonality in us all, rather than what separates us. But I’m just wasting my breath here, as these kinds of words fall on deaf ears…

    • jasonpaulhayes August 24, 2011 at 11:13 am #

      Whatever “label” created in the spirit of dismissal makes trendy consumerists and other mislead people feel better while coming to terms with the fact that you can still get laid, be heard, draw interest and be happy with Thrift Clothes, the words of Dead Poets and a 1983 Volvo 240.

  17. SoulArbiter August 21, 2011 at 7:12 am #

    I think I just read a whole lot of bitching.

  18. SoulArbiter August 21, 2011 at 3:12 am #

    I think I just read a whole lot of bitching.

  19. Anonymous August 21, 2011 at 7:18 am #

    Your fellows in you sub-culture get ‘it’ whatever it might be for you. Those in other groups ‘get’ something else. Much sneering ensues, then you get old and feel shame. Just go with whatever gives you kicks.

  20. dumbsaint August 21, 2011 at 3:18 am #

    Your fellows in your sub-culture get ‘it’ whatever it might be for you. Those in other groups ‘get’ something else. Much sneering ensues, then you get old and feel shame. Just go with whatever gives you kicks.

    On a side note, it’s interesting how these sorts of manifesto posts raise people’s ire around here. Tuna’s stuff and that satanist guy always seem get a large amount of comments about how wrong their opinions are.

  21. Anonymous August 21, 2011 at 7:33 am #

    I liked this essay better when no one knew about it.

  22. Dirtbag_Kingdom August 21, 2011 at 3:33 am #

    I liked this essay better when no one knew about it.

  23. Monkey's Uncle August 21, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    Your words are not real. I see hipsters as a bunch of people
    dressing oddly and thinking they are a part of something that they may think is
    real, when really it’s all just show. If dressing like others gives the
    illusion of being a part of something, then to me that’s a sign of a major
    flaw.  To my utter horror I once attended
    a hipster party a few years back in Minneapolis. 

    I didn’t know it at the time,
    I only realized recently. Anyways I was so thrilled to be invited to attend a
    gathering at an art show. I remember one woman bragging to me about an overly
    expensive purse, and gleefully talking about her couture style.

     

    I had no idea what the purse was, she named it by brand. I
    said I had a paper bag once. Even though they sold drinks there I remember some
    dude drinking his cheap beer that he brought along like it was a badge of
    honor. Most of the people were all show, like look me my clothes define me.

    I
    thought and think they were all dicks. Not because they dressed oddly, I’ve
    done that my whole life, $5.00 Velcro Starter shoes from Walmart, green trench
    coat, steal toe leather shoes from sears etc. No it’s not that, it’s the
    importance they place on the outward appearance. 

    If you drop a lump of gold in
    shit, you can wipe the shit off and it’s still worth something, but if you gold
    leaf a lump of shit and wipe it off, it’s still a lump of shit.

  24. echar August 21, 2011 at 3:37 am #

    Your words are not real. I see hipsters as a bunch of people
    dressing oddly and thinking they are a part of something that they may think is
    real, when really it’s all just show. If dressing like others gives the
    illusion of being a part of something, then to me that’s a sign of a major
    flaw.  To my utter horror I once attended
    a hipster party a few years back in Minneapolis. 

    I didn’t know it at the time,
    I only realized recently. Anyways I was so thrilled to be invited to attend a
    gathering at an art show. I remember one woman bragging to me about an overly
    expensive purse, and gleefully talking about her couture style.

     

    I had no idea what the purse was, she named it by brand. I
    said I had a paper bag once. Even though they sold drinks there I remember some
    dude drinking his cheap beer that he brought along like it was a badge of
    honor. Most of the people were all show, like look me my clothes define me.

    I
    thought and think they were all dicks. Not because they dressed oddly, I’ve
    done that my whole life, $5.00 Velcro Starter shoes from Walmart, green trench
    coat, steal toe leather shoes from sears etc. No it’s not that, it’s the
    importance they place on the outward appearance. 

    If you drop a lump of gold in
    shit, you can wipe the shit off and it’s still worth something, but if you gold
    leaf a lump of shit and wipe it off, it’s still a lump of shit.

    • Chaorder Gradient August 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

      if you gold leaf a lump of gold you get the last 3 lines of your comment

  25. Anonymous August 21, 2011 at 9:15 am #

    I’ll add one thing, actually, in defense of the Hipster. Family Guy fans are still lower than your sort. Hipsters that are also Family Guy fans, well lets just make them clean toilets. For free.

  26. Redacted August 21, 2011 at 5:15 am #

    I’ll add one thing, actually, in defense of the Hipster. Family Guy fans are still lower than your sort. Hipsters that are also Family Guy fans, well lets just make them clean toilets. For free.

    Hipsters still deserve to earn a wage. Family Guy fans should either be enslaved or executed.

    • DeepCough August 21, 2011 at 9:10 am #

      Your average Family Guy fan is still more high-brow than your average hipster.

    • Redacted August 23, 2011 at 2:11 am #

      How drunk was I when I made this post?

      Pretty drunk.

  27. davakins August 21, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    I grew up in a poor, working class family…… this bullshit flies in the face of any sensible person aspiring to ‘rise above his raising’, and makes all you middle class rebels look soooo lame.  Was my life any more ‘real’ than that of a kid that grew up getting all the breaks and not taking advantage of them? (NO)  I cringe when I think about the dirt, the grit, the shitty clothes and lousy food and the abuse; the REAL-ness of my existence was almost too much to bear. Now, I see these ugly little hipsters emulating a life that they never lived, wearing clothes that were never really in style and throwing away their chances in life in order to seem authentic and I think to myself, FUCK THIS!  Hipsters deserve abuse….. all more to add to the realness of their plotted lives.  Heap the coals of despair upon the hipster!  Make them suffer all that was suffered by whom they are copying. Blame the hipster for the price of  pbr, it costs more now than ever.  When you go to get coffee, just go to the gas station, otherwise you wind up standing in line at a coffeehouse and paying through the nose for the authentic experience of having a philosophy major pour your coffee with disdain. 

  28. davakins August 21, 2011 at 7:11 am #

    I grew up in a poor, working class family…… this bullshit flies in the face of any sensible person aspiring to ‘rise above his raising’, and makes all you middle class rebels look soooo lame.  Was my life any more ‘real’ than that of a kid that grew up getting all the breaks and not taking advantage of them? (NO)  I cringe when I think about the dirt, the grit, the shitty clothes and lousy food and the abuse; the REAL-ness of my existence was almost too much to bear. Now, I see these ugly little hipsters emulating a life that they never lived, wearing clothes that were never really in style and throwing away their chances in life in order to seem authentic and I think to myself, FUCK THIS!  Hipsters deserve abuse….. all more to add to the realness of their plotted lives.  Heap the coals of despair upon the hipster!  Make them suffer all that was suffered by whom they are copying. Blame the hipster for the price of  pbr, it costs more now than ever.  When you go to get coffee, just go to the gas station, otherwise you wind up standing in line at a coffeehouse and paying through the nose for the authentic experience of having a philosophy major pour your coffee with disdain. 

  29. Ronniedobbs August 21, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Q; How many hipsters does it take to change a light bulb?

    A:  It’s this really obscure number you’ve probably never heard of…..

  30. Ronniedobbs August 21, 2011 at 8:59 am #

    Q; How many hipsters does it take to change a light bulb?

    A:  It’s this really obscure number you’ve probably never heard of…..

  31. DeepCough August 21, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Your average Family Guy fan is still more high-brow than your average hipster.

  32. David Meadows August 21, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    I’m tired of hearing about hipsters.  I’m sick of hipsters trying to justify why they do what they do and i’m tired of people tearing them down.  I Just don’t care either way.  These articles are not news and not worth reading.

  33. David Meadows August 21, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    I’m tired of hearing about hipsters.  I’m sick of hipsters trying to justify why they do what they do and i’m tired of people tearing them down.  I Just don’t care either way.  These articles are not news and not worth reading.

    • Merlick August 21, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

      Wow… Your real!

      • Andrew August 21, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

        His real what?

  34. jambajam August 21, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    Or…  just stop giving a shit if you’re real or fake and be yourself.

    Retarded.

  35. jambajam August 21, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Or…  just stop giving a shit if you’re real or fake and be yourself.

    Retarded.

  36. Dueyv9 August 21, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    There’s a world crisis going on. People are losing their jobs. They are cutting back on their budgets. There is a big sense of something big on the horizon that is gonna change our lives. And it’s all because hipsters are being made fun of.

  37. Dueyv9 August 21, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    There’s a world crisis going on. People are losing their jobs. They are cutting back on their budgets. There is a big sense of something big on the horizon that is gonna change our lives. And it’s all because hipsters are being made fun of.

  38. Chaorder Gradient August 21, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    if you gold leaf a lump of gold you get the last 3 lines of your comment

  39. Merlick August 21, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    Wow… Your real!

  40. Terrence Amiro August 21, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    Hipsters are annoying, like shitty music, and dress like idiotic assholes.

  41. Terrence Amiro August 21, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Hipsters are annoying, like shitty music, and dress like idiotic assholes.

  42. Merlick August 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Ironically, hipsters don’t have sex…

  43. Merlick August 21, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    Ironically, hipsters don’t have sex…

  44. Andrew August 21, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    His real what?

  45. In your mind August 21, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Part 2, really? Find out who you really are and you will feel no need to defend yourself, because you will never feel attacked. Only bullshit needs a defense.

  46. In your mind August 21, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    Part 2, really? Find out who you really are and you will feel no need to defend yourself, because you will never feel attacked. Only bullshit needs a defense.

    • Andrew August 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm #

      What planet do you live on?  Here on Earth, truth is violently opposed.

      • In your mind August 21, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

        It is obvious you didn’t really understand my comment. Yes, the truth here is violently opposed. That does not mean I have to oppose it, which is why my mind knows peace. The squabbling of the insane mean nothing.

  47. FREAKpowerULTD. August 21, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    The problem with the hipster is that he/she isn’t rebelling against authority. Just because you dress like an anti-authoritarian doesn’t make it so. You still can’t judge a book by its cover in this culture. You’ve gotta get in their head to discover the slavish authoritarian known as the “hipster”. Its not a shallowness of style. That is merely a symptom, it results from a shallowness of thought. A parasitic creature whos host, hyper-capitalism, is in its death throes.

  48. FREAKpowerULTD. August 21, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    The problem with the hipster is that he/she isn’t rebelling against authority. Just because you dress like an anti-authoritarian doesn’t make it so. You still can’t judge a book by its cover in this culture. You’ve gotta get in their head to discover the slavish authoritarian known as the “hipster”. Its not a shallowness of style. That is merely a symptom, it results from a shallowness of thought. A parasitic creature whos host, hyper-capitalism, is in its death throes.

  49. Andrew August 21, 2011 at 6:52 pm #

    What planet do you live on?  Here on Earth, truth is violently opposed.

  50. Honu August 21, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    I’m genuinely impressed that Tuna hasn’t jumped on each and every poster’s response and either thanked or tried to refute them on this part 2 go around. Congrats Tuna, I guess you learned that it’s not worth engaging posters.  Just put your stuff up and whatever responses you get, sift through and take what works for you and ignore the rest….like the evidence that refutes the official story for 9-11.  Just had to poke you a bit.

  51. Honu August 21, 2011 at 3:04 pm #

    I’m genuinely impressed that Tuna hasn’t jumped on each and every poster’s response and either thanked or tried to refute them on this part 2 go around. Congrats Tuna, I guess you learned that it’s not worth engaging posters.  Just put your stuff up and whatever responses you get, sift through and take what works for you and ignore the rest….like the evidence that refutes the official story for 9-11.  Just had to poke you a bit.

    • Tuna Ghost August 22, 2011 at 8:48 am #

      oooh, I almost bit on that one.  Frankly, the last go-round was a pleasant and informative discussion in most cases, but definitely tiring.  Especially the ones who don’t actually, you know, address any of the points and just say “hipsters are stupid, am I right?”  

      • Arvo November 15, 2011 at 7:17 am #

        If I were to be offended, it would be by the kids wearing rags, that used to be a revolutionary symbol for refugees, or something like that, heh.  What can we say about white people being able to live in bad neighborhoods without guns?   Their parents should keep them in their X  bubble and stop raising our property values!  Should hapless white kids get their asses kicked for whimsically appropriating the clothes of other ethnic groups and acting stupid, especially when their parents drove out some poor neighborhood family?  Man I am really not looking forward to the evolution of this shit, I don’t want to know what’s next.  But authenticity is an abstraction, the point is taken.   I still hope that whatever prevailing fashion shift that becomes a dominant penduluum swing  is more interesting, especially if it doesn’t mainly focus on white people.  Hopefully post hipsterism will be more integrated in its insincerity. 

  52. In your mind August 21, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    It is obvious you didn’t really understand my comment. Yes, the truth here is violently opposed. That does not mean I have to oppose it, which is why my mind knows peace. The squabbling of the insane mean nothing.

  53. Blah August 21, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    someone please shoot the author of this thing… 

  54. Blah August 21, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    someone please shoot the author of this thing… 

  55. Okarin August 21, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    hipsters are marketing’s prefect creation, like brainwashing supersoldier programs marketing has created the superconsumer ready to destroy any human attribute so that only consumption remains

  56. Okarin August 21, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    hipsters are marketing’s prefect creation, like brainwashing supersoldier programs marketing has created the superconsumer ready to destroy any human attribute so that only consumption remains

  57. Blah August 21, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    someone please shoot the author of this thing… 

  58. Okarin August 21, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    hipsters are marketing’s prefect creation, like brainwashing supersoldier programs marketing has created the superconsumer ready to destroy any human attribute so that only consumption remains

  59. Nuggett August 21, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    HAHAHA.  Nail on the head.  Bravo.

  60. Greg L Hawk August 21, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    This is an argument not worth having, but hey, it’s the internet. There’s really nothing uniform about the “hipster” sub-culture (or lack thereof), aside from the skinny jeans, and goofy glasses. A lot of people wear shoes. Does that make them a sub-culture? Some of them are bigots and assholes. Does that make everyone that wears shoes a bigot or an asshole? I don’t know. I know some people that wear shoes who are pretty cool.

  61. Greg L Hawk August 21, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    This is an argument not worth having, but hey, it’s the internet. There’s really nothing uniform about the “hipster” sub-culture (or lack thereof), aside from the skinny jeans, and goofy glasses. A lot of people wear shoes. Does that make them a sub-culture? Some of them are bigots and assholes. Does that make everyone that wears shoes a bigot or an asshole? I don’t know. I know some people that wear shoes who are pretty cool.

  62. Greg L Hawk August 21, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    This is an argument not worth having, but hey, it’s the internet. There’s really nothing uniform about the “hipster” sub-culture (or lack thereof), aside from the skinny jeans, and goofy glasses. A lot of people wear shoes. Does that make them a sub-culture? Some of them are bigots and assholes. Does that make everyone that wears shoes a bigot or an asshole? I don’t know. I know some people that wear shoes who are pretty cool.

  63. James M. Kilmury August 21, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    Alan Watts used to take beatniks to task for their druggy rebel style of Zen. Reading what TunaGhost has written so far, she seems to have her head screwed on tight enough to be able to rock what she pleases while bringing forth from her intellect and personality a unique individual, which is some of the defining characteristics that separates the pioneers from the pretenders in to spoil the party (I lived in Austin, TX for 3 years and witnessed all this firsthand). My hat’s off to you, Miss.

  64. James M. Kilmury August 21, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    Alan Watts used to take beatniks to task for their druggy rebel style of Zen. Reading what TunaGhost has written so far, she seems to have her head screwed on tight enough to be able to rock what she pleases while bringing forth from her intellect and personality a unique individual, which is some of the defining characteristics that separates the pioneers from the pretenders in to spoil the party (I lived in Austin, TX for 3 years and witnessed all this firsthand). My hat’s off to you, Miss.

    • Nuggett August 21, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

      Managing to be a “unique individual” as you coin it, is hardly a feat worth mentioning.  In fact, it’s the whole  point of why people distrust “hipsterism” or any defense of it.  I too believe that TunaGhost may be above the fray and eloquently defending her deluded past.  Maybe it will take this overwhelming response to open her eyes.  Who knows?  The point is not that TunaGhost manages to be unique amongst a subculture of phonies.  The point is that she is defending something much worse than she probably realizes, and doing it well……

  65. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    The titles remind me of rocky and bullwinkle. Anyways, I did want to point out that someon could make shitty choices and still be inauthentic. How do you define a persons authentcity? By their character, which is only truly shown during difficult trials. Everything else is just an estimation of “cool” which varies group to group.

  66. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    The titles remind me of rocky and bullwinkle. Anyways, I did want to point out that someon could make shitty choices and still be inauthentic. How do you define a persons authentcity? By their character, which is only truly shown during difficult trials. Everything else is just an estimation of “cool” which varies group to group.

  67. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    The titles remind me of rocky and bullwinkle. Anyways, I did want to point out that someon could make shitty choices and still be inauthentic. How do you define a persons authentcity? By their character, which is only truly shown during difficult trials. Everything else is just an estimation of “cool” which varies group to group.

  68. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    The titles remind me of rocky and bullwinkle. Anyways, I did want to point out that someon could make shitty choices and still be inauthentic. How do you define a persons authentcity? By their character, which is only truly shown during difficult trials. Everything else is just an estimation of “cool” which varies group to group.

  69. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    The titles remind me of rocky and bullwinkle. Anyways, I did want to point out that someon could make shitty choices and still be inauthentic. How do you define a persons authentcity? By their character, which is only truly shown during difficult trials. Everything else is just an estimation of “cool” which varies group to group.

  70. MoralDrift August 21, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    The titles remind me of rocky and bullwinkle. Anyways, I did want to point out that someon could make shitty choices and still be inauthentic. How do you define a persons authentcity? By their character, which is only truly shown during difficult trials. Everything else is just an estimation of “cool” which varies group to group.

  71. Adam August 22, 2011 at 12:37 am #

    And in other news, Gadhafi is finally on his way out…

  72. Adam August 21, 2011 at 8:37 pm #

    And in other news, Gadhafi is finally on his way out…

    • davakins August 22, 2011 at 9:46 am #

       we should put him in charge of the hipsters

      • Jin The Ninja August 22, 2011 at 11:24 am #

        with his 80s safari suit, he IS a hipster!

        • Adam August 22, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

          Yeah, his perm is ironic.

  73. NarwhalNecropsy August 22, 2011 at 1:07 am #

    9 out of 10 idiots couldn’t respond without making a stupid joke. If you all hate “hipsters” so much, why the fuck are you here? IT’S IN EVERY COUNTER CULTURE FOR FUCKS SAKE. It’s not like there’s this one group that can be deemed “hipsters” that act like this.

  74. NarwhalNecropsy August 21, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    9 out of 10 idiots couldn’t respond without making a stupid joke. If you all hate “hipsters” so much, why the fuck are you here? IT’S IN EVERY COUNTER CULTURE FOR FUCKS SAKE. It’s not like there’s this one group that can be deemed “hipsters” that act like this.

  75. Nuggett August 22, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    Managing to be a “unique individual” as you coin it, is hardly a feat worth mentioning.  In fact, it’s the whole  point of why people distrust “hipsterism” or any defense of it.  I too believe that TunaGhost may be above the fray and eloquently defending her deluded past.  Maybe it will take this overwhelming response to open her eyes.  Who knows?  The point is not that TunaGhost manages to be unique amongst a subculture of phonies.  The point is that she is defending something much worse than she probably realizes, and doing it well……

  76. Nuggett August 22, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    Managing to be a “unique individual” as you coin it, is hardly a feat worth mentioning.  In fact, it’s the whole  point of why people distrust “hipsterism” or any defense of it.  I too believe that TunaGhost may be above the fray and eloquently defending her deluded past.  Maybe it will take this overwhelming response to open her eyes.  Who knows?  The point is not that TunaGhost manages to be unique amongst a subculture of phonies.  The point is that she is defending something much worse than she probably realizes, and doing it well……

  77. FaceEater August 22, 2011 at 3:02 am #

    You’re trying to hard to defend your lack of substance and trying desperately to co-opt culture which is not yours. It’s sad, boring and well, poorly written too bro’ – just. fucking. stop. Author should be banned, this isn’t worthwhile material, go write about it on your blogspot kiddo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTI7eWaQbk

  78. FaceEater August 21, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    You’re trying to hard to defend your lack of substance and trying desperately to co-opt culture which is not yours. It’s sad, boring and well, poorly written too bro’ – just. fucking. stop. Author should be banned, this isn’t worthwhile material, go write about it on your blogspot kiddo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTI7eWaQbk

  79. Pablo August 22, 2011 at 4:46 am #

    Yet again another damned hipster justifying hipsterism. Go to a god damn hipster community site to deal with your emotional insecurities. Disinfo ain’t the place for this hipster-bullshit. Try to think this through like a real hipster “I’m hipster, but you propably know nothing about that”. There are lots of peculiar things going on in this world, hipsters problems are the least interesting of them all.

  80. Pablo August 22, 2011 at 4:46 am #

    Yet again another damned hipster justifying hipsterism. Go to a god damn hipster community site to deal with your emotional insecurities. Disinfo ain’t the place for this hipster-bullshit. Try to think this through like a real hipster “I’m hipster, but you propably know nothing about that”. There are lots of peculiar things going on in this world, hipsters problems are the least interesting of them all.

  81. Pablo August 22, 2011 at 12:46 am #

    Yet again another damned hipster justifying hipsterism. Go to a god damn hipster community site to deal with your emotional insecurities. Disinfo ain’t the place for this hipster-bullshit. Try to think this through like a real hipster “I’m hipster, but you propably know nothing about that”. There are lots of peculiar things going on in this world, hipsters problems are the least interesting of them all.

  82. ICE August 22, 2011 at 9:16 am #

    this is a case of when keeping it real goes wrong :D

  83. ICE August 22, 2011 at 5:16 am #

    this is a case of when keeping it real goes wrong :D

  84. ICE August 22, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    Hipsters are over the top. Most people are “HIP” in one or two aspects of their lifestyle. Hipsters try to be hip with everything they do, its an ambition and thus they seem fake. Hipsters try to be hip and Hip people are just naturally hip

  85. ICE August 22, 2011 at 5:20 am #

    Hipsters are over the top. Most people are “HIP” in one or two aspects of their lifestyle. Hipsters try to be hip with everything they do, its an ambition and thus they seem fake. Hipsters try to be hip and Hip people are just naturally hip

  86. Tuna Ghost August 22, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Yes, I like them too

  87. Tuna Ghost August 22, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    oooh, I almost bit on that one.  Frankly, the last go-round was a pleasant and informative discussion in most cases, but definitely tiring.  Especially the ones who don’t actually, you know, address any of the points and just say “hipsters are stupid, am I right?”  

  88. Tuna Ghost August 22, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Huh, it completely cut out the actual excerpt from Warren Ellis’s Doktor Sleepless.  Is there some copyright issue I was not made aware of?  Shame, it was a good bit of writing that elaborated my point far more than I could have myself.  The article falls pretty flat without it.  

  89. Tuna Ghost August 22, 2011 at 8:51 am #

    Huh, it completely cut out the actual excerpt from Warren Ellis’s Doktor Sleepless.  Is there some copyright issue I was not made aware of?  Shame, it was a good bit of writing that elaborated my point far more than I could have myself.  The article falls pretty flat without it.  

  90. honcho August 22, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Being a rich kid living off of mommy and daddy’s money in a rundown studio in the wrong part of town is cool.

  91. honcho August 22, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Being a rich kid living off of mommy and daddy’s money in a rundown studio in the wrong part of town is cool.

  92. honcho August 22, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    Being a rich kid living off of mommy and daddy’s money in a rundown studio in the wrong part of town is cool.

    • Jin The Ninja August 22, 2011 at 11:23 am #

      if you’re living off your parent’s money, why would you choose a RUNDOWN studio?

  93. davakins August 22, 2011 at 1:46 pm #

     we should put him in charge of the hipsters

  94. rarcher August 22, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    is that haircut legit?

  95. rarcher August 22, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    is that haircut legit?

  96. justagirl August 22, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    LOL!  woah!  you sick monster!!

  97. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    if you’re living off your parent’s money, why would you choose a RUNDOWN studio?

  98. Anonymous August 22, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    with his 80s safari suit, he IS a hipster!

  99. Chaorder Gradient August 22, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    I see it there.. unless its longer than 2 paragraphs

  100. DeepCough August 22, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    For those in need of catharsis after this puke-enducing apology of hipsterdom, I recommend a healthy dose of this fun art game called appropriately enough “Die Hipster.”

    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/563837

  101. Adam August 22, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Yeah, his perm is ironic.

  102. maudrindead August 22, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    There’s no such thing as hierachy either, that’s why we all get born with our pubic hair already attached and several phd’s.

  103. maudrindead August 22, 2011 at 7:14 pm #

    There’s no such thing as hierachy either, that’s why we all get born with our pubic hair already attached and several phd’s.

  104. Anonymous August 23, 2011 at 6:11 am #

    How drunk was I when I made this post?

    Pretty drunk.

  105. P.M.W.Norton August 23, 2011 at 7:58 am #

    Its really depressing to me that a person has to go to such lengths to justify a lifestyle choice…On Disinfo.com. I would have found it strange and indulgent had I not waded through the bile swamp of these comments…”Kill the hipsters!” Give me a break, you sound like every ignorant redneck sisterfucker that ever hollered “Freak” at me from their muddy speeding trucks.(And whats with the dangling testicle thing? Is this only in the midwest? On trucks I mean, this isn’t some sort of open zipper hipster fad I’m referring to) Anyways, yeah I shaved half my head, wore an electric tape gauntlet and listened to a whole lotta Skinny Puppy. Sure it was gaudy, but it was also a lot of fun. Not the being tormented every second of my young adulthood, but the dressing up part. Way too lazy for that now. I’m wearing thick black glasses, but its because I am severely farsighted, I still wear my over sized skinny puppy shirts(I lost a lot of weight and I can’t afford new clothes…not that I don’t still love me some 80′s-90′s industrial) Actually wearing one right now, with some orange Adidas I bought for 5 bucks at goodwill, and some green corduroys. I roll them up because I ride a three wheeled bike a lot. It has three wheels because I can’t balance and peddle at the same time (weird epilepsy thing). What you don’t give a shit what I am wearing and why I wear it? You’re on the right track.

     Maybe I am a hipster though. I do really like witch house. I thought the new  Washed out was pretty rad. 
    I have to be honest with y’all, I still don’t think I even understand what a hipster is…it apparently describes everyone I met while I lived in Austin, Tx that wasn’t Elderly or Indian…Or Elderly Indians…but def. Neon Indian. It also sort of describes the people I know in Indiana that like fun. As a child murderer I know once said, “Whats better than fun?”  These “hipster” kids I know always seem to have way more of it than I do. I’m too backward and anxious to indulge in too much of it, but it always seemed to be the way to go. I think my friend of the quote indulged in a bit to much of it… Still, youth is a great time to do meaningless fun things, as long as they don’t harm anyone else. Fun is the Law, Fun under Will. 

    PS
    To the “This is not news” crowd. Disinfo (at least in the past) was/is a website that focuses focused on culture sub,counter,alter,bacterial! But you’re mistaken doubly! The sheer vitriol in these comments vindicates this article as news, as relevant, even important. It’s very silly that this discussion has to happen, but happen it has, and happen it should.  I suppose in a world where people kill and oppress each other over who has the better tan, I shouldn’t be surprised about piss fights concerning clothes and music.
    I see a generation gap widening, I see an aging group of “counter culture” types…whatever that means anymore. The leather trench coat crowd….I don’t know… desperately trying to cling onto their dying cool. This new generation just doesn’t get it! They don’t value what I value! They are fools, fakes, they must be destroyed…before I am out numbered, before I am irrelevant. 

  106. P.M.W.Norton August 23, 2011 at 3:58 am #

    Its really depressing to me that a person has to go to such lengths to justify a lifestyle choice…On Disinfo.com. I would have found it strange and indulgent had I not waded through the bile swamp of these comments…”Kill the hipsters!” Give me a break, you sound like every ignorant redneck sisterfucker that ever hollered “Freak” at me from their muddy speeding trucks.(And whats with the dangling testicle thing? Is this only in the midwest? On trucks I mean, this isn’t some sort of open zipper hipster fad I’m referring to) Anyways, yeah I shaved half my head, wore an electric tape gauntlet and listened to a whole lotta Skinny Puppy. Sure it was gaudy, but it was also a lot of fun. Not the being tormented every second of my young adulthood, but the dressing up part. Way too lazy for that now. I’m wearing thick black glasses, but its because I am severely farsighted, I still wear my over sized skinny puppy shirts(I lost a lot of weight and I can’t afford new clothes…not that I don’t still love me some 80′s-90′s industrial) Actually wearing one right now, with some orange Adidas I bought for 5 bucks at goodwill, and some green corduroys. I roll them up because I ride a three wheeled bike a lot. It has three wheels because I can’t balance and peddle at the same time (weird epilepsy thing). What you don’t give a shit what I am wearing and why I wear it? You’re on the right track.

     Maybe I am a hipster though. I do really like witch house. I thought the new  Washed out was pretty rad. 
    I have to be honest with y’all, I still don’t think I even understand what a hipster is…it apparently describes everyone I met while I lived in Austin, Tx that wasn’t Elderly or Indian…Or Elderly Indians…but def. Neon Indian. It also sort of describes the people I know in Indiana that like fun. As a child murderer I know once said, “Whats better than fun?”  These “hipster” kids I know always seem to have way more of it than I do. I’m too backward and anxious to indulge in too much of it, but it always seemed to be the way to go. I think my friend of the quote indulged in a bit to much of it… Still, youth is a great time to do meaningless fun things, as long as they don’t harm anyone else. Fun is the Law, Fun under Will. 

    PS
    To the “This is not news” crowd. Disinfo (at least in the past) was/is a website that focuses focused on culture sub,counter,alter,bacterial! But you’re mistaken doubly! The sheer vitriol in these comments vindicates this article as news, as relevant, even important. It’s very silly that this discussion has to happen, but happen it has, and happen it should.  I suppose in a world where people kill and oppress each other over who has the better tan, I shouldn’t be surprised about piss fights concerning clothes and music.
    I see a generation gap widening, I see an aging group of “counter culture” types…whatever that means anymore. The leather trench coat crowd….I don’t know… desperately trying to cling onto their dying cool. This new generation just doesn’t get it! They don’t value what I value! They are fools, fakes, they must be destroyed…before I am out numbered, before I am irrelevant. 

  107. jasonpaulhayes August 24, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    Whatever “label” created in the spirit of dismissal makes trendy consumerists and other mislead people feel better while coming to terms with the fact that you can still get laid, be heard, draw interest and be happy with Thrift Clothes, the words of Dead Poets and a 1983 Volvo 240.

  108. LouisCypher August 24, 2011 at 6:04 pm #

    talking about hipsters, is soooo hipster. yuck.

  109. LouisCypher August 24, 2011 at 6:04 pm #

    talking about hipsters, is soooo hipster. yuck.

  110. LouisCypher August 24, 2011 at 6:04 pm #

    talking about hipsters, is soooo hipster. yuck.

  111. LouisCypher August 24, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    talking about hipsters, is soooo hipster. yuck.

  112. Kody Adams August 24, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    ok, i really made bad choices, and really lived in the barrio. but i could never afford nice hipster clothes. what did i do wrong there? (not that i would wear hipster-style clothes, i just want to know if theres some kind of budgeting secret i missed)

  113. Kody Adams August 24, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    ok, i really made bad choices, and really lived in the barrio. but i could never afford nice hipster clothes. what did i do wrong there? (not that i would wear hipster-style clothes, i just want to know if theres some kind of budgeting secret i missed)

  114. Liquidstar August 24, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    The slack that can be described is not the true slack.

  115. Liquidstar August 25, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    The slack that can be described is not the true slack.

  116. Nauseous August 27, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    What a gross, masturbatory article. Thanks again, Disinfo, for this charming piece of alternative news. Dirty Girls Ministries should protest Tuna Ghost’s self-referencial “insights”.

  117. Nauseous August 27, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    What a gross, masturbatory article. Thanks again, Disinfo, for this charming piece of alternative news. Dirty Girls Ministries should protest Tuna Ghost’s self-referencial “insights”.

  118. tooCents August 29, 2011 at 7:34 am #

    “Nation of Rebels: Why Counterculture Became Consumer Culture” book drives across the exact same points. The b.s. concept ‘authenticity’ is used to sell shit. And the idea of ‘Counter-culture’ is a confused, misguided idea that generates way more heat than light and actually hurts progressive politics (almost said genuine progressive politics).

  119. Anonymous August 29, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    “Nation of Rebels: Why Counterculture Became Consumer Culture” book drives across the exact same points. The b.s. concept ‘authenticity’ is used to sell shit. And the idea of ‘Counter-culture’ is a confused, misguided idea that generates way more heat than light and actually hurts progressive politics (almost said genuine progressive politics).

  120. Annoyed by this article. September 3, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    blah blah blah. “hipsters” are self-absorbed. period. in any generation since 1900. 

  121. Annoyed by this article. September 3, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    blah blah blah. “hipsters” are self-absorbed. period. in any generation since 1900. 

  122. Arvo November 15, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    If I were to be offended, it would be by the kids wearing rags, that used to be a revolutionary symbol for refugees, or something like that, heh.  What can we say about white people being able to live in bad neighborhoods without guns?   Their parents should keep them in their X  bubble and stop raising our property values!  Should hapless white kids get their asses kicked for whimsically appropriating the clothes of other ethnic groups and acting stupid, especially when their parents drove out some poor neighborhood family?  Man I am really not looking forward to the evolution of this shit, I don’t want to know what’s next.  But authenticity is an abstraction, the point is taken.   I still hope that whatever prevailing fashion shift that becomes a dominant penduluum swing  is more interesting, especially if it doesn’t mainly focus on white people.  Hopefully post hipsterism will be more integrated in its insincerity. 

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