Post-God Christianity In The Netherlands

_54431589_biblebeltAt Protestant churches in Holland, the preachers admit to the the congregants that God does not exist, there is no afterlife, and Jesus was a mortal, if he existed at all. It’s Christianity for a post-belief world. The BBC writes:

“Make the most of life on earth, because it will probably be the only one you get”. The Rev Klaas Hendrikse can offer his congregation little hope of life after death, and he’s not the sort of man to sugar the pill. Mr Hendrikse presides over the Sunday service at the Exodus Church in Gorinchem, central Holland.

It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, and the Lord’s Prayer.

“Personally I have no talent for believing in life after death,” Mr Hendrikse says. “No, for me our life, our task, is before death.” Nor does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing. “When it happens, it happens down to earth, between you and me, between people, that’s where it can happen. God is not a being at all… it’s a word for experience, or human experience.”

His book Believing in a Non-Existent God led to calls from more traditionalist Christians for him to be removed. However, a special church meeting decided his views were too widely shared among church thinkers for him to be singled out. A study by the Free University of Amsterdam found that one-in-six clergy in the PKN and six other smaller denominations was either agnostic or atheist.

Dienie van Wijngaarden, who’s been going to Exodus Church for 20 years, is among lay people attracted to such free thinking. “I think it’s very liberating. [Klaas Hendrikse] is using the Bible in a metaphorical way so I can bring it to my own way of thinking, my own way of doing.”

Wim De Jong says, “Here you can believe what you want to think for yourself, what you really feel and believe is true.”

Churches in Amsterdam were hoping to attract such people with a recent open evening. At the Old Church “in the hottest part of the red light district”, the attractions included “speed-dating”.

Professor Hijme Stoffels of the VU University Amsterdam says it is in such concepts as love that people base their diffuse ideas of religion. “In our society it’s called ‘somethingism’,” he says. “There must be ‘something’ between heaven and earth, but to call it ‘God’, and even ‘a personal God’, for the majority of Dutch is a bridge too far.

“Christian churches are in a market situation. They can offer their ideas to a majority of the population which is interested in spirituality or some kind of religion.” To compete in this market of ideas, some Christian groups seem ready virtually to reinvent Christianity. They want the Netherlands to be a laboratory for Christianity, experimenting with radical new ways of understanding the faith.

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  • DeepCough

    Finally: it took 2,000 years, but Christianity is now about to take the Orthodox Buddhist route.

    • Just me

      Not likely, in order for Christianity to take the “Orthodox Buddhist route” would require rejecting the teachings of Christ, without the teachings of Christ, there is no Christianity.

      • DeepCough

        Incorrect. If Americans were more likely to use the Jefferson Bible, which threw out the miracles and kept the ethics, Americans would probably be more Christ-like, believe it or not.

        • SF2K01

          If so, then why not call themselves Muslism who just believe in ethnics and not Mohammed? Seems to me they’d be in the same exact position. Or Buddhists who don’t believe in Buddah? There are things inheirent to the title “Christian” and one of those is believing in Jesus in some way shape or form. This is society’s problem. You don’t HAVE to be christian, so why call yourself one if you have nothing in common with the religion and admittedly reject it’s tenants?

          • Anarchy Pony

            That was my whole thought upon seeing this article. Why even bother calling yourself christian if you are throwing out all of the aspects that define it as such?

          • DeepCough

            “If Americans were more likely to use the Jefferson Bible, which threw
            out the miracles and kept the ethics, Americans would probably be more
            Christ-like, believe it or not.”

            So what part of that did you not comprehend?

          • SF2K01

            I was responding to the fact that you said the previous statement was incorrect, which you apparently didn’t understand if you think what you said was in contradiction to that. Without the concept of Jesus, there is no Christianity. Without Mohammed, there is no Islam. That doesn’t mean there aren’t ethics, but that does mean they’re not of the religion they claim to be. It’s “irrelevant” how much it resembles a made up character who wasn’t much better than a crazed charlatan to begin with.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

            its tenants which I described just above – including mass murder

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

      I dont know anything about orthodox bhudism,  but look at all the orthodox – fundamentalist churches

      Christianity gave the USA slavery as justified per the bible

      the catholic church gave the world hitler and the hatred of the Jews.  And 55 million died. HItler, a catholic born in 1888 in LIntz Austria has yet to be, dead or alive formally EXcommunicated by his church. 
      Also see http://www.nobelifs.com/nazis.htm

      think about orthodox Islam and 9-11

      In Israel in Jan 2009,  a couple members of the knesset – shas (orthodox party)  said  “gays are like bird flu”
      A call for the genocide of the people who shared hitlers ovens with most likely the close relatives of those orthodox.

      And in 2009  August an orthodox went to the LGBT community center and killed two women and wounded 10-12 more.

      need I say more., other then conservative / orthodox religion is  the path to the devil and hell if it exists, and the path to the devil here on earth

      • DeepCough

        Orthodox Buddhism reveres Siddartha Gautama  as a teacher of ethics, whereas other offshoots of Buddhism outside of China aggrandize and deify Buddha as a god working in the natural world with certain attributes.

      • Lela

        Christianity gave the USA slavery….seriously are you that illiterate or do you need to say this to validate your unbelief. Slavery have always existed within all ancient civilizations. The correct translation for the word slave in the bible is servant or Bondservant. If I owed you money I’d have to work it off, be your servant/slave until the debt is paid off. You can’t make such statements when you never read the bible, all you’re doing is repeating what someone said or a paragraph from an anti-christian book. Educate yourself first and read the bible before you make such silly comments. American slavery can not be compared to what servitude was in the bible. Slavery built this empire and it still do today with it south american banana plantations. Slave men, women, boy, girl cattle was all raped by slave masters. The beat them, kill them, cut genitals off ( they were very obsess with private parts ), every inhumane thing you could think of this slave masters did. And today those developed and rich countries have slavery to thank. Slavery also had nothing to do with race or eugenics in the old days. 

        Now lets read what the bible says on how to treat your slave/servant/bondservant.

        Exodus 21:20
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 20 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies [a]at his hand, he shall [b]be punished.Exodus 21:27
        New American Standard Bible (NASB)27 And if he [a]knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.Name a white man who did this then we can start comparing slavery of the bible and your forefathers.Deuteronomy 23:15-16
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 15 “(A)You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has [a]escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your [b]towns where it pleases him; (B)you shall not mistreat him.You don’t have to go far, just google slave wanted signs and you’ll see slaves were not allowed to run, they’d be shoot dead or hunted like an animal. Exodus 20:10
        New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it (A)you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you.Well in cotton season I dont think any slave rested.Deuteronomy 5:14
        New American Standard Bible (NASB)14 but (A)the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.Those masters literally went out in search to enslave people who they deemed non human. Again slaves/servants/bondservants in the bible count be anyone there was no racial basis for it. Here is one example how you can become someone’s slave/servant/bondservant.Exodus 22Property Rights 1 “[a]If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for the ox and (A)four sheep for the sheep. 2 “[b]If the (B)thief is [c]caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. 3 But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be (C)sold for his theft.Tell me what did those natives or africans do to become slaves ?Why the genocide of natives ? All in the name of creating an empire, greed, selfishness and pure evil. Today we only like to talk about slavery when talking about christians. If you or anyone is so concern about slavery, it’s causes and currents problems that exist today…what measures have you taken to stop it ? Slavery had no end in this country it took a law to change the hearts of men, who still today in their elite offices run plantations today in poor developing countries and are racist as before and would conduct a genocide of all non white civilazations if they could..but then it would leave thme slave less. It’s the only way to be rich, keep the poor unprivileged so they can serve you and build your empire. Exodus 21:2
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 2 “If you buy (A)a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.Give me examples where slaves were set free after six years then we can compare slavery. Those american masters never read the bible in it’s true context they picked and choose verses to validate themselves. If they read these verses and still believed God wanted they to conduct this type of slavery, separting families, forcing slave women to breast feed the slave master baby over theirs, cutting off genitals, raping women and men. Then I say they are true devils who will reap what they sow for manipulating people with the bible.Deuteronomy 15:12
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free.Here we see the word ” kinsman” being used. Deuteronomy 15:12-15
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free. 13 When you set him [c]free, you shall not send him away empty-handed.14 You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you [d]this today.I won’t make this one easy for you, go research jubilee.Leviticus 25:10
        New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and (A)proclaim [a]a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, [b]and (B)each of you shall return to his own property, [c]and each of you shall return to his family.Leviticus 25:53
        New American Standard Bible (NASB)53 Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; (A)he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight.be treated as a hired manNumbers 15:15-16
        New American Standard Bible (NASB)15 As for the assembly, there shall be (A)one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. 16 There is to be (B)one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”I’ll just let scripture speak for itself enjoy and be educated. My final words American slavery had nothing to do with the bible, they were racist who were happy eugenics came around, after slavery ended they still raped, killed and abused these people even thought they were no longer slaves. Slavery or servitude in the bible did not discriminate, it was not base on race or color of skin, plus a person had the choice to willfully sell themselves and buy themselves, fathers willfully sold their daughters, free themselves and masters under the law had to free their slaves at some point. Unlike here where slaves and their families was past down to generation to generations, unless a member was sold. Exodus 23:9
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 9 “(A)You shall not oppress a [a]stranger, since you yourselves know the [b]feelings of a [c]stranger, for you alsowere [d]strangers in the land of Egypt.Yet these same outcast from europe who fled from their own prosecution and search for a better life had no regard or conscious and neglected a very important verse in the bible whose message was LOVE, for strangers and enemies. Money came first, kill the natives, steal the land, get new slaves to work the land..now an empire sits here today.Did the bible say thou must rape their slave/servant/kinsman/bondservant  ?Deuteronomy 22:25-27
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.They raped anything, married unmarried didn’t matter.Deuteronomy 24:19-21
        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 19 “(A)When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be (B)for the alien, for the [a]orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God (C)may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 (D)When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs[b]again; it shall be (E)for the alien, for the [c]orphan, and for the widow. 21 “When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not [d]go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the [e]orphan, and for the widow.Think what you want, you are free to do so but kindly take the time to do your research as I have. Don’t make statement to look intelligent when all you’re doing is repeating what someone else said. I’m bringing everything from the source the bible. Again American slavery was not based on the bible, they did use the bible to validate themselves and also to silent the true christians who  disagreed. When people don’t read the bible for themselves and money is more important american slavery exist. They also misquoted the bible to the slaves telling them it was the order of things that they must submit and God forbid them to run away. Slaves were not alloed to read the bible so manipulation was not hard. Yet today we see african americans who as you say are the victims of the bible have churches and believe in the very same God of their ancestors masters. This alone shows the power of God, that can soften any heart that wants to be soften. The biggest atheist should be africans and natives.. yet they are not..so whats your excuse and how and in what way did the bible victimize you to hate God your creator. Stop living off the misfortune of others to validate yours belief. As we see descendants of africans slaves who are informed believe in God. Murder was murder and was punishable. 

      • Justinlee

        Fixing lela paragraphing. 

        Christianity gave the USA slavery….seriously are you that illiterate or do you need to say this to validate your unbelief. Slavery have always existed within all ancient civilizations. The correct translation for the word slave in the bible is servant or Bondservant. If I owed you money I’d have to work it off, be your servant/slave until the debt is paid off. You can’t make such statements when you never read the bible, all you’re doing is repeating what someone said or a paragraph from an anti-christian book. Educate yourself first and read the bible before you make such silly comments. American slavery can not be compared to what servitude was in the bible. Slavery built this empire and it still do today with it south american banana plantations. Slave men, women, boy, girl cattle was all raped by slave masters. The beat them, kill them, cut genitals off ( they were very obsess with private parts ), every inhumane thing you could think of this slave masters did. And today those developed and rich countries have slavery to thank. Slavery also had nothing to do with race or eugenics in the old days. Now lets read what the bible says on how to treat your slave/servant/bondservant.Exodus 21:20New American Standard Bible (NASB) 20 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies [a]at his hand, he shall [b]be punished.Exodus 21:27

        New American Standard Bible (NASB)27 And if he [a]knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.Name a white man who did this then we can start comparing slavery of the bible and your forefathers.Deuteronomy 23:15-16

        New American Standard Bible (NASB) 15 “(A)You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has [a]escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your [b]towns where it pleases him; (B)you shall not mistreat him.You don’t have to go far, just google slave wanted signs and you’ll see slaves were not allowed to run, they’d be shoot dead or hunted like an animal.

         Exodus 20:10New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it (A)you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you.Well in cotton season I dont think any slave rested

        .Deuteronomy 5:14New American Standard Bible (NASB)14 but (A)the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

        Those masters literally went out in search to enslave people who they deemed non human. Again slaves/servants/bondservants in the bible count be anyone there was no racial basis for it. Here is one example how you can become someone’s slave/servant/bondservant.

        Exodus 22Property Rights 1 “[a]If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for the ox and (A)four sheep for the sheep. 2 “[b]If the (B)thief is [c]caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. 3 But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be (C)sold for his theft.

        Tell me what did those natives or africans do to become slaves ?Why the genocide of natives ? All in the name of creating an empire, greed, selfishness and pure evil. Today we only like to talk about slavery when talking about christians. If you or anyone is so concern about slavery, it’s causes and currents problems that exist today…what measures have you taken to stop it ? Slavery had no end in this country it took a law to change the hearts of men, who still today in their elite offices run plantations today in poor developing countries and are racist as before and would conduct a genocide of all non white civilazations if they could..but then it would leave thme slave less. It’s the only way to be rich, keep the poor unprivileged so they can serve you and build your empire. 

        Exodus 21:2New American Standard Bible (NASB) 2 “If you buy (A)a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.

        Give me examples where slaves were set free after six years then we can compare slavery. Those american masters never read the bible in it’s true context they picked and choose verses to validate themselves. If they read these verses and still believed God wanted they to conduct this type of slavery, separting families, forcing slave women to breast feed the slave master baby over theirs, cutting off genitals, raping women and men. Then I say they are true devils who will reap what they sow for manipulating people with the bible.

        Deuteronomy 15:12New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free.Here we see the word ” kinsman” being used. 

        Deuteronomy 15:12-15New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free. 13 When you set him [c]free, you shall not send him away empty-handed.14 You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you [d]this today.I won’t make this one easy for you, go research jubilee.

        Leviticus 25:10New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and (A)proclaim [a]a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, [b]and (B)each of you shall return to his own property, [c]and each of you shall return to his family.

        Leviticus 25:53New American Standard Bible (NASB)53 Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; (A)he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight.be treated as a hired man

        Numbers 15:15-16New American Standard Bible (NASB)15 As for the assembly, there shall be (A)one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. 16 There is to be (B)one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”I’ll just let scripture speak for itself enjoy and be educated. 

         American slavery had nothing to do with the bible, they were racist who were happy eugenics came around, after slavery ended they still raped, killed and abused these people even thought they were no longer slaves. Slavery or servitude in the bible did not discriminate, it was not base on race or color of skin, plus a person had the choice to willfully sell themselves and buy themselves, fathers willfully sold their daughters, free themselves and masters under the law had to free their slaves at some point. Unlike here where slaves and their families was past down to generation to generations, unless a member was sold. 

        Exodus 23:9New American Standard Bible (NASB) 9 “(A)You shall not oppress a [a]stranger, since you yourselves know the [b]feelings of a [c]stranger, for you alsowere [d]strangers in the land of Egypt.Yet these same outcast from europe who fled from their own prosecution and search for a better life had no regard or conscious and neglected a very important verse in the bible whose message was LOVE, for strangers and enemies. Money came first, kill the natives, steal the land, get new slaves to work the land..now an empire sits here today.Did the bible say thou must rape their slave/servant/kinsman/bondservant  ?

        Deuteronomy 22:25-27New American Standard Bible (NASB) 25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.They raped anything, married unmarried didn’t matter.

        Deuteronomy 24:19-21New American Standard Bible (NASB) 19 “(A)When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be (B)for the alien, for the [a]orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God (C)may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 (D)When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs[b]again; it shall be (E)for the alien, for the [c]orphan, and for the widow. 21 “When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not [d]go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the [e]orphan, and for the widow.

        Think what you want, you are free to do so but kindly take the time to do your research as I have. Don’t make statement to look intelligent when all you’re doing is repeating what someone else said. I’m bringing everything from the source the bible. Again American slavery was not based on the bible, they did use the bible to validate themselves and also to silent the true christians who  disagreed. When people don’t read the bible for themselves and money is more important american slavery exist. They also misquoted the bible to the slaves telling them it was the order of things that they must submit and God forbid them to run away. Slaves were not alloed to read the bible so manipulation was not hard. Yet today we see african americans who as you say are the victims of the bible have churches and believe in the very same God of their ancestors masters. This alone shows the power of God, that can soften any heart that wants to be soften. The biggest atheist should be africans and natives.. yet they are not..so whats your excuse and how and in what way did the bible victimize you to hate God your creator. Stop living off the misfortune of others to validate yours belief. As we see descendants of africans slaves who are informed believe in God. Murder was murder and was punishable.

  • DeepCough

    Finally: it took 2,000 years, but Christianity is now about to take the Orthodox Buddhist route.

  • pstmdrn

    Well, I love freedom to find new ways of Christianity, but my spirirtual beleif system must a have a supernatural component. Though, I am critical of Man creating a beleif system. Such things should be guided by the beleif itself, not its followers.

  • pstmdrn

    Well, I love freedom to find new ways of Christianity, but my spirirtual beleif system must a have a supernatural component. Though, I am critical of Man creating a beleif system. Such things should be guided by the beleif itself, not its followers.

  • http://strictlyapathy.comoj.com/ SoulArbiter

    Mr Hendrikse, expect a lot of religious zealots knocking at your door, telling you “you’re wrong.” Personally, I see nothing wrong with this, but this will definitely clash with the traditional system of belief that has been instilled and the foundation of Christianity for the last 2 millennia.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

      A university did a study last year. It focused on the catholic church and how it with the corrupt kings ran Europe for a thousand years as a theocracy.  Nothing at all changed until the printing press came along and the church lost control of the means of communicating ideas.  And when it did, in about 1400 it led to the anythign but holy Inquisition.  perhaps a hundred thosuand people burned at the stake, thrown in boiling oil, books burned etc, as the church tried to keep control of the money flow to it.

      Its concludion – if the church didnt exist, we would have had things like the internet by 1600.  Which also means we would have  had   modern medicine etc by that time.

      Sot the church was responsible for many hundreds of years of people living lives referred to as cold, harse, and brutal.  and short. MOsst died by age 50.

      Any wonder most of our children are leaving religion – especially the right wing conservative kinds.

      BTW it was the xtains who were behind slavery which they justified as per the bible. 

      • Xenobia_mia

        Lol.. if if if if….

      • http://strictlyapathy.comoj.com/ SoulArbiter

        I’m pretty sure most people are aware of the ramifications of what the influence of the church has done, in particular in the advancement science and technology and the terrible atrocities that were committed across Europe back in those days. That’s why there was the period of Enlightenment.

        What I was saying is that people will choose what they want to believe and live their life according to that. Two blokes of opposing trains of thought, telling each other that what they believe is wrong and trying to coerce the other into their way of thinking simply won’t work and they’re eventually left back at square one.

        It’s all just a matter of personal opinion.

  • http://strictlyapathy.comoj.com SoulArbiter

    Mr Hendrikse, expect a lot of religious zealots knocking at your door, telling you “you’re wrong.” Personally, I see nothing wrong with this, but this will definitely clash with the traditional system of belief that has been instilled and the foundation of Christianity for the last 2 millennia.

  • Guest

    Whats the fucking point? This is retarded? This is like joining the democratic party to preach republican philosophy or painting a cow to look like a zebra, pointless and fucking stupid. What is even dumber, some of these activists seem to think this is a victory for atheism.

  • Anonymous

    This is great, but the last thing we need is for any religion to reinvent itself (again) back into relevance. Especially Christianity.

  • Anonymous

    This is great, but the last thing we need is for any religion to reinvent itself (again) back into relevance. Especially Christianity.

  • Haystack

    “Christian churches are in a market situation. They can offer their ideas to a majority of the population which is interested in spirituality or some kind of religion.”

    Let’s focus group it. 

    • Nuggett

      HAHAHAH…how much does the session pay?

  • Haystack

    “Christian churches are in a market situation. They can offer their ideas to a majority of the population which is interested in spirituality or some kind of religion.”

    Let’s focus group it. 

  • Anon

    more like being any political party member and realizing your philosophy doesn’t have to segregate to get it’s point across

    more like them taking the paint off the zebra to reveal the cow.
    more like a victory for Christianity,since it can now start living in the real worldand no, it’s not retarded, your analogies on the other hand…..

    • Anon

      my punctuation is definitely ‘tarded

      • Bigdickmegaherz

        This is not chan 4 chan… get your retard ass off here. Also, the point was simple, to become something simply to deny it is retarded. Just deny it and move on. Waste of time… not everything in life needs to be performance art.

  • Anon

    more like being any political party member and realizing your philosophy doesn’t have to segregate to get it’s point across

    more like them taking the paint off the zebra to reveal the cow.
    more like a victory for Christianity,since it can now start living in the real worldand no, it’s not retarded, your analogies on the other hand…..

  • Anon

    more like being any political party member and realizing your philosophy doesn’t have to segregate to get it’s point across

    more like them taking the paint off the zebra to reveal the cow.
    more like a victory for Christianity,since it can now start living in the real worldand no, it’s not retarded, your analogies on the other hand…..

  • Anon

    my punctuation is definitely ‘tarded

  • Just me

    Not likely, in order for Christianity to take the “Orthodox Buddhist route” would require rejecting the teachings of Christ, without the teachings of Christ, there is no Christianity.

  • Thank God I’m agnostic

    I don’t think they could still call this Christianity, but then, why would they want to?  No other religion has ever been so historically brutal.  Sounds more like a psychological (or spiritual) halfway house, so to speak – a stopover on the way to a reason-based philosophy of existence.  That’s not quite as stiff a crutch as Christianity but is still a crutch nonetheless.  Oh well, if it works for some, then so be it.  More power to them.

    • E.B. Wolf

      Baby steps.

    • SF2K01

      “No other religion has ever been so historically brutal.” Almost every single one of them would have been, and some actually have been in other times and places, just as brutal in Christianity’s place. The reason doesn’t matter, people are dicks to each other.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

        Dicks to each other, mostly due to religion.   see my above posts

        • Xenobia_mia

          I doubt its due to religion.. Its due to people who cant accept other people’s view and other people themselves, Maozedong, Hitler wasnt religious, Stalin etc

        • SF2K01

          You should see how much some animals, i.e. dolphins and chimpanzees, are complete dicks to each other. I doubt it’s tied to religion for them. It’s mostly politics, who’s the leader of who and who gets to make up the rules (this behavior is also found amongst many different animal species). Animalism and politics come long before religion.

  • Thank God I’m agnostic

    I don’t think they could still call this Christianity, but then, why would they want to?  No other religion has ever been so historically brutal.  Sounds more like a psychological (or spiritual) halfway house, so to speak – a stopover on the way to a reason-based philosophy of existence.  That’s not quite as stiff a crutch as Christianity but is still a crutch nonetheless.  Oh well, if it works for some, then so be it.  More power to them.

  • Nuggett

    HAHAHAH…how much does the session pay?

  • O. Spengler

    I am the descendant of a long line of Dutch protestant ministers. Atheism is the logical outcome of the path of non-charismatic protestantism. However, the step from protestantism to atheism is not entirely based on rationalist materialism, but also on a deeply indoctrinated fear of paganism. And such negative emotional aspects of a religion outweigh all the good things they can offer. After catholics were considered too pagan, the need to purge christianity from all traces of paganism set a mechanism in motion with unforeseen consequences. The inevitable step is to do away with religion altogether, because christianity carries the seed of prior pagan beliefs within it. Thus puritanical christianity eats itself.

    • Wingsofabird

      Do you have a source for the statement “Atheism is the LOGICAL outcome of the path of non charismatic protestantism,” or is this the product of your own rather bizarre thinking?   

      • DeepCough

        Hey, I was Protestant, too. You could say the irony of the situation is that my former Protestantism lead me to protesting Christianity itself, henceforth atheism. Isn’t evolution fun?

      • arn

        slavoj zizek (featured on this site earlier i belive) has written and talked much on (protestant) christianity and atheism, arguing something along the lines that christianity marks the end of pagan, superstitiuos religion. What dies on the cross with Jesus is the concept of God itself, as a transcendent entity securing the stability of the universe. Mankind is then left in the middle of nowhere –  with the Holy Spirit, which he interprets as the bond or pact between believers (communists). To Victory, Comrades! [pardon the silly inaccuracies, read his book The Monstrosity of Christ, an exchange between him and "pagan" christian John Milbank.]

  • O. Spengler

    I am the descendant of a long line of Dutch protestant ministers. Atheism is the logical outcome of the path of non-charismatic protestantism. However, the step from protestantism to atheism is not entirely based on rationalist materialism, but also on a deeply indoctrinated fear of paganism. And such negative emotional aspects of a religion outweigh all the good things they can offer. After catholics were considered too pagan, the need to purge christianity from all traces of paganism set a mechanism in motion with unforeseen consequences. The inevitable step is to do away with religion altogether, because christianity carries the seed of prior pagan beliefs within it. Thus puritanical christianity eats itself.

  • DeepCough

    Incorrect. If Americans were more likely to use the Jefferson Bible, which threw out the miracles and kept the ethics, Americans would probably be more Christ-like, believe it or not.

  • Wingsofabird

    Do you have a source for the statement “Atheism is the LOGICAL outcome of the path of non charismatic protestantism,” or is this the product of your own rather bizarre thinking?   

  • E.B. Wolf

    Baby steps.

  • Anonymous

    “No other religion has ever been so historically brutal.” Almost every single one of them would have been, and some actually have been in other times and places, just as brutal in Christianity’s place. The reason doesn’t matter, people are dicks to each other.

  • Anonymous

    If so, then why not call themselves Muslism who just believe in ethnics and not Mohammed? Seems to me they’d be in the same exact position. Or Buddhists who don’t believe in Buddah? There are things inheirent to the title “Christian” and one of those is believing in Jesus in some way shape or form. This is society’s problem. You don’t HAVE to be christian, so why call yourself one if you have nothing in common with the religion and admittedly reject it’s tenants?

  • DeepCough

    Hey, I was Protestant, too. You could say the irony of the situation is that my former Protestantism lead me to protesting Christianity itself, henceforth atheism. Isn’t evolution fun?

  • ICE

    God is dead but Satan lives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

  • ICE

    God is dead but Satan lives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

      yes – in the orthodox churches by many names = catholic,  xtians like Brevik of norway and his madness, Islam etc

  • Wanooski

    Time to return to our pagan roots, folks, cast off the chains of the abusive monotheist religions.

  • Anarchy Pony

    Time to return to our pagan roots, folks, cast off the chains of the abusive monotheist religions.

  • Wanooski

    That was my whole thought upon seeing this article. Why even bother calling yourself christian if you are throwing out all of the aspects that define it as such?

  • DeepCough

    “If Americans were more likely to use the Jefferson Bible, which threw
    out the miracles and kept the ethics, Americans would probably be more
    Christ-like, believe it or not.”

    So what part of that did you not comprehend?

  • Dmitry

    Oh, you people!  Always trying to “Klass”ify everything.

  • Dmitry

    Oh, you people!  Always trying to “Klass”ify everything.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    the rpomise of life after death , based on stories from 2000 years ago, about one man, not even written down until several hundred years later.   Probably each generation which passed on the story embellished it.

    Jesus supposedly saved a few people – or were they victims of the psychosymatic illness Where people seem to be dead but can be revived.  And even in these days of modern science, a handfull of bodies are delievered every year to funeral homes,  physically alive .

    On the other side of the pincers of which the catholic church traps people –  the creation of the devil and hell.

    A catholic once explained to me so well how he got trapped and still was trapped by the church.  “why take a chance”

    the sooner we toss all the baloney about religion in the trash can and keep one statemnt from a jewish rabbi long long ago –  “love thy neighbor as thyself”,  the better off we will be.

    I’m sure if there is a god we’ll be rewarded.  if there isn’t and we are conscious in our last moments we’ll know our lives helped others.

    What could be a better reward.

    Meanwhile, simply google   [country name] – catholic church molests children,         and see how the church of the Inquisition, the church of the 1000 year dark ages, the church of  adolph H  (  http://www./nobeliefs.com/Nazis.htm )

    has been the longest lived tyranny on earth.

    • Moustachu

      Oh really?
      Well, Snookums, you speak as though the Christian religion  is and was the only organization, because of their belief to violate other human beings. Sheer numbers prove you wrong.     You speak as tho only Catholics have molested children, and yet the largest number of molestations and rapes are committed by non-believers or other religiously affiliated persons.    Check Fact -check for yourself.
      The Inquisition  is the onlt religious group that stands out in your mind, of a religious group who killed people?  The ancient Mayan religion sacrificed countless thousands if not millions of their own people.
      I’d say a more appropriate thing to conclude  might be man’s fallen nature and his own narcissism  is more likely an accurate reasoning for heinous crimes against it’s own species.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    the rpomise of life after death , based on stories from 2000 years ago, about one man, not even written down until several hundred years later.   Probably each generation which passed on the story embellished it.

    Jesus supposedly saved a few people – or were they victims of the psychosymatic illness Where people seem to be dead but can be revived.  And even in these days of modern science, a handfull of bodies are delievered every year to funeral homes,  physically alive .

    On the other side of the pincers of which the catholic church traps people –  the creation of the devil and hell.

    A catholic once explained to me so well how he got trapped and still was trapped by the church.  “why take a chance”

    the sooner we toss all the baloney about religion in the trash can and keep one statemnt from a jewish rabbi long long ago –  “love thy neighbor as thyself”,  the better off we will be.

    I’m sure if there is a god we’ll be rewarded.  if there isn’t and we are conscious in our last moments we’ll know our lives helped others.

    What could be a better reward.

    Meanwhile, simply google   [country name] – catholic church molests children,         and see how the church of the Inquisition, the church of the 1000 year dark ages, the church of  adolph H  (  http://www./nobeliefs.com/Nazis.htm )

    has been the longest lived tyranny on earth.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    I dont know anything about orthodox bhudism,  but look at all the orthodox – fundamentalist churches

    Christianity gave the USA slavery as justified per the bible

    the catholic church gave the world hitler and the hatred of the Jews.  And 55 million died. HItler, a catholic born in 1888 in LIntz Austria has yet to be, dead or alive formally EXcommunicated by his church. 
    Also see http://www.nobelifs.com/nazis.htm

    think about orthodox Islam and 9-11

    In Israel in Jan 2009,  a couple members of the knesset – shas (orthodox party)  said  “gays are like bird flu”
    A call for the genocide of the people who shared hitlers ovens with most likely the close relatives of those orthodox.

    And in 2009  August an orthodox went to the LGBT community center and killed two women and wounded 10-12 more.

    need I say more., other then conservative / orthodox religion is  the path to the devil and hell if it exists, and the path to the devil here on earth

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    its tenants which I described just above – including mass murder

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    Dicks to each other, mostly due to religion.   see my above posts

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    yes – in the orthodox churches by many names = catholic,  xtians like Brevik of norway and his madness, Islam etc

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VVHGFY6INZQ5SX4HLNUF4NSIE Stanley J

    A university did a study last year. It focused on the catholic church and how it with the corrupt kings ran Europe for a thousand years as a theocracy.  Nothing at all changed until the printing press came along and the church lost control of the means of communicating ideas.  And when it did, in about 1400 it led to the anythign but holy Inquisition.  perhaps a hundred thosuand people burned at the stake, thrown in boiling oil, books burned etc, as the church tried to keep control of the money flow to it.

    Its concludion – if the church didnt exist, we would have had things like the internet by 1600.  Which also means we would have  had   modern medicine etc by that time.

    Sot the church was responsible for many hundreds of years of people living lives referred to as cold, harse, and brutal.  and short. MOsst died by age 50.

    Any wonder most of our children are leaving religion – especially the right wing conservative kinds.

    BTW it was the xtains who were behind slavery which they justified as per the bible. 

  • DeepCough

    Orthodox Buddhism reveres Siddartha Gautama  as a teacher of ethics, whereas other offshoots of Buddhism outside of China aggrandize and deify Buddha as a god working in the natural world with certain attributes.

  • Dmitry

    Why do most people still feel the need to be led?  It’s been painfully clear for quite some time that all people are not created equal and many among us can’t even do the simplest of taskes without some form of help or guidance. Survival of the fittest has gone out the window with this species and most are now content with telling you their laundry list of problems in order to guilt you into helping them.  I’m sure no one is saying “be an island” but I for one am tired of babysitting and holding everyones hand because they are too lazy or have become complacent with everything being handed to them. Learn to lead your own self and stop looking for an answer that may not be there.

  • Dmitry

    Why do most people still feel the need to be led?  It’s been painfully clear for quite some time that all people are not created equal and many among us can’t even do the simplest of taskes without some form of help or guidance. Survival of the fittest has gone out the window with this species and most are now content with telling you their laundry list of problems in order to guilt you into helping them.  I’m sure no one is saying “be an island” but I for one am tired of babysitting and holding everyones hand because they are too lazy or have become complacent with everything being handed to them. Learn to lead your own self and stop looking for an answer that may not be there.

  • Xenobia_mia

    I doubt its due to religion.. Its due to people who cant accept other people’s view and other people themselves, Maozedong, Hitler wasnt religious, Stalin etc

  • Xenobia_mia

    Lol.. if if if if….

  • http://strictlyapathy.comoj.com SoulArbiter

    I’m pretty sure most people are aware of the ramifications of what the influence of the church has done, in particular in the advancement science and technology and the terrible atrocities that were committed across Europe back in those days. That’s why there was the period of Enlightenment.

    What I was saying is that people will choose what they want to believe and live their life according to that. Two blokes of opposing trains of thought, telling each other that what they believe is wrong and trying to coerce the other into their way of thinking simply won’t work and they’re eventually left back at square one.

    It’s all just a matter of personal opinion.

  • http://strictlyapathy.comoj.com SoulArbiter

    I’m pretty sure most people are aware of the ramifications of what the influence of the church has done, in particular in the advancement science and technology and the terrible atrocities that were committed across Europe back in those days. That’s why there was the period of Enlightenment.

    What I was saying is that people will choose what they want to believe and live their life according to that. Two blokes of opposing trains of thought, telling each other that what they believe is wrong and trying to coerce the other into their way of thinking simply won’t work and they’re eventually left back at square one.

    It’s all just a matter of personal opinion.

  • Lela

    Christianity gave the USA slavery….seriously are you that illiterate or do you need to say this to validate your unbelief. Slavery have always existed within all ancient civilizations. The correct translation for the word slave in the bible is servant or Bondservant. If I owed you money I’d have to work it off, be your servant/slave until the debt is paid off. You can’t make such statements when you never read the bible, all you’re doing is repeating what someone said or a paragraph from an anti-christian book. Educate yourself first and read the bible before you make such silly comments. American slavery can not be compared to what servitude was in the bible. Slavery built this empire and it still do today with it south american banana plantations. Slave men, women, boy, girl cattle was all raped by slave masters. The beat them, kill them, cut genitals off ( they were very obsess with private parts ), every inhumane thing you could think of this slave masters did. And today those developed and rich countries have slavery to thank. Slavery also had nothing to do with race or eugenics in the old days. 

    Now lets read what the bible says on how to treat your slave/servant/bondservant.

    Exodus 21:20
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 20 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies [a]at his hand, he shall [b]be punished.Exodus 21:27
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)27 And if he [a]knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.Name a white man who did this then we can start comparing slavery of the bible and your forefathers.Deuteronomy 23:15-16
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 15 “(A)You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has [a]escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your [b]towns where it pleases him; (B)you shall not mistreat him.You don’t have to go far, just google slave wanted signs and you’ll see slaves were not allowed to run, they’d be shoot dead or hunted like an animal. Exodus 20:10
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it (A)you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you.Well in cotton season I dont think any slave rested.Deuteronomy 5:14
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)14 but (A)the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.Those masters literally went out in search to enslave people who they deemed non human. Again slaves/servants/bondservants in the bible count be anyone there was no racial basis for it. Here is one example how you can become someone’s slave/servant/bondservant.Exodus 22Property Rights 1 “[a]If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for the ox and (A)four sheep for the sheep. 2 “[b]If the (B)thief is [c]caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. 3 But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be (C)sold for his theft.Tell me what did those natives or africans do to become slaves ?Why the genocide of natives ? All in the name of creating an empire, greed, selfishness and pure evil. Today we only like to talk about slavery when talking about christians. If you or anyone is so concern about slavery, it’s causes and currents problems that exist today…what measures have you taken to stop it ? Slavery had no end in this country it took a law to change the hearts of men, who still today in their elite offices run plantations today in poor developing countries and are racist as before and would conduct a genocide of all non white civilazations if they could..but then it would leave thme slave less. It’s the only way to be rich, keep the poor unprivileged so they can serve you and build your empire. Exodus 21:2
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 2 “If you buy (A)a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.Give me examples where slaves were set free after six years then we can compare slavery. Those american masters never read the bible in it’s true context they picked and choose verses to validate themselves. If they read these verses and still believed God wanted they to conduct this type of slavery, separting families, forcing slave women to breast feed the slave master baby over theirs, cutting off genitals, raping women and men. Then I say they are true devils who will reap what they sow for manipulating people with the bible.Deuteronomy 15:12
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free.Here we see the word ” kinsman” being used. Deuteronomy 15:12-15
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free. 13 When you set him [c]free, you shall not send him away empty-handed.14 You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you [d]this today.I won’t make this one easy for you, go research jubilee.Leviticus 25:10
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and (A)proclaim [a]a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, [b]and (B)each of you shall return to his own property, [c]and each of you shall return to his family.Leviticus 25:53
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)53 Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; (A)he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight.be treated as a hired manNumbers 15:15-16
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)15 As for the assembly, there shall be (A)one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. 16 There is to be (B)one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”I’ll just let scripture speak for itself enjoy and be educated. My final words American slavery had nothing to do with the bible, they were racist who were happy eugenics came around, after slavery ended they still raped, killed and abused these people even thought they were no longer slaves. Slavery or servitude in the bible did not discriminate, it was not base on race or color of skin, plus a person had the choice to willfully sell themselves and buy themselves, fathers willfully sold their daughters, free themselves and masters under the law had to free their slaves at some point. Unlike here where slaves and their families was past down to generation to generations, unless a member was sold. Exodus 23:9
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 9 “(A)You shall not oppress a [a]stranger, since you yourselves know the [b]feelings of a [c]stranger, for you alsowere [d]strangers in the land of Egypt.Yet these same outcast from europe who fled from their own prosecution and search for a better life had no regard or conscious and neglected a very important verse in the bible whose message was LOVE, for strangers and enemies. Money came first, kill the natives, steal the land, get new slaves to work the land..now an empire sits here today.Did the bible say thou must rape their slave/servant/kinsman/bondservant  ?Deuteronomy 22:25-27
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.They raped anything, married unmarried didn’t matter.Deuteronomy 24:19-21
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 19 “(A)When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be (B)for the alien, for the [a]orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God (C)may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 (D)When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs[b]again; it shall be (E)for the alien, for the [c]orphan, and for the widow. 21 “When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not [d]go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the [e]orphan, and for the widow.Think what you want, you are free to do so but kindly take the time to do your research as I have. Don’t make statement to look intelligent when all you’re doing is repeating what someone else said. I’m bringing everything from the source the bible. Again American slavery was not based on the bible, they did use the bible to validate themselves and also to silent the true christians who  disagreed. When people don’t read the bible for themselves and money is more important american slavery exist. They also misquoted the bible to the slaves telling them it was the order of things that they must submit and God forbid them to run away. Slaves were not alloed to read the bible so manipulation was not hard. Yet today we see african americans who as you say are the victims of the bible have churches and believe in the very same God of their ancestors masters. This alone shows the power of God, that can soften any heart that wants to be soften. The biggest atheist should be africans and natives.. yet they are not..so whats your excuse and how and in what way did the bible victimize you to hate God your creator. Stop living off the misfortune of others to validate yours belief. As we see descendants of africans slaves who are informed believe in God. Murder was murder and was punishable. 

  • Lela

    Christianity gave the USA slavery….seriously are you that illiterate or do you need to say this to validate your unbelief. Slavery have always existed within all ancient civilizations. The correct translation for the word slave in the bible is servant or Bondservant. If I owed you money I’d have to work it off, be your servant/slave until the debt is paid off. You can’t make such statements when you never read the bible, all you’re doing is repeating what someone said or a paragraph from an anti-christian book. Educate yourself first and read the bible before you make such silly comments. American slavery can not be compared to what servitude was in the bible. Slavery built this empire and it still do today with it south american banana plantations. Slave men, women, boy, girl cattle was all raped by slave masters. The beat them, kill them, cut genitals off ( they were very obsess with private parts ), every inhumane thing you could think of this slave masters did. And today those developed and rich countries have slavery to thank. Slavery also had nothing to do with race or eugenics in the old days. 

    Now lets read what the bible says on how to treat your slave/servant/bondservant.

    Exodus 21:20
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 20 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies [a]at his hand, he shall [b]be punished.Exodus 21:27
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)27 And if he [a]knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.Name a white man who did this then we can start comparing slavery of the bible and your forefathers.Deuteronomy 23:15-16
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 15 “(A)You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has [a]escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your [b]towns where it pleases him; (B)you shall not mistreat him.You don’t have to go far, just google slave wanted signs and you’ll see slaves were not allowed to run, they’d be shoot dead or hunted like an animal. Exodus 20:10
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it (A)you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you.Well in cotton season I dont think any slave rested.Deuteronomy 5:14
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)14 but (A)the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.Those masters literally went out in search to enslave people who they deemed non human. Again slaves/servants/bondservants in the bible count be anyone there was no racial basis for it. Here is one example how you can become someone’s slave/servant/bondservant.Exodus 22Property Rights 1 “[a]If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for the ox and (A)four sheep for the sheep. 2 “[b]If the (B)thief is [c]caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. 3 But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be (C)sold for his theft.Tell me what did those natives or africans do to become slaves ?Why the genocide of natives ? All in the name of creating an empire, greed, selfishness and pure evil. Today we only like to talk about slavery when talking about christians. If you or anyone is so concern about slavery, it’s causes and currents problems that exist today…what measures have you taken to stop it ? Slavery had no end in this country it took a law to change the hearts of men, who still today in their elite offices run plantations today in poor developing countries and are racist as before and would conduct a genocide of all non white civilazations if they could..but then it would leave thme slave less. It’s the only way to be rich, keep the poor unprivileged so they can serve you and build your empire. Exodus 21:2
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 2 “If you buy (A)a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.Give me examples where slaves were set free after six years then we can compare slavery. Those american masters never read the bible in it’s true context they picked and choose verses to validate themselves. If they read these verses and still believed God wanted they to conduct this type of slavery, separting families, forcing slave women to breast feed the slave master baby over theirs, cutting off genitals, raping women and men. Then I say they are true devils who will reap what they sow for manipulating people with the bible.Deuteronomy 15:12
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free.Here we see the word ” kinsman” being used. Deuteronomy 15:12-15
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free. 13 When you set him [c]free, you shall not send him away empty-handed.14 You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you [d]this today.I won’t make this one easy for you, go research jubilee.Leviticus 25:10
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and (A)proclaim [a]a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, [b]and (B)each of you shall return to his own property, [c]and each of you shall return to his family.Leviticus 25:53
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)53 Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; (A)he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight.be treated as a hired manNumbers 15:15-16
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)15 As for the assembly, there shall be (A)one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. 16 There is to be (B)one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”I’ll just let scripture speak for itself enjoy and be educated. My final words American slavery had nothing to do with the bible, they were racist who were happy eugenics came around, after slavery ended they still raped, killed and abused these people even thought they were no longer slaves. Slavery or servitude in the bible did not discriminate, it was not base on race or color of skin, plus a person had the choice to willfully sell themselves and buy themselves, fathers willfully sold their daughters, free themselves and masters under the law had to free their slaves at some point. Unlike here where slaves and their families was past down to generation to generations, unless a member was sold. Exodus 23:9
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 9 “(A)You shall not oppress a [a]stranger, since you yourselves know the [b]feelings of a [c]stranger, for you alsowere [d]strangers in the land of Egypt.Yet these same outcast from europe who fled from their own prosecution and search for a better life had no regard or conscious and neglected a very important verse in the bible whose message was LOVE, for strangers and enemies. Money came first, kill the natives, steal the land, get new slaves to work the land..now an empire sits here today.Did the bible say thou must rape their slave/servant/kinsman/bondservant  ?Deuteronomy 22:25-27
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.They raped anything, married unmarried didn’t matter.Deuteronomy 24:19-21
    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 19 “(A)When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be (B)for the alien, for the [a]orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God (C)may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 (D)When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs[b]again; it shall be (E)for the alien, for the [c]orphan, and for the widow. 21 “When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not [d]go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the [e]orphan, and for the widow.Think what you want, you are free to do so but kindly take the time to do your research as I have. Don’t make statement to look intelligent when all you’re doing is repeating what someone else said. I’m bringing everything from the source the bible. Again American slavery was not based on the bible, they did use the bible to validate themselves and also to silent the true christians who  disagreed. When people don’t read the bible for themselves and money is more important american slavery exist. They also misquoted the bible to the slaves telling them it was the order of things that they must submit and God forbid them to run away. Slaves were not alloed to read the bible so manipulation was not hard. Yet today we see african americans who as you say are the victims of the bible have churches and believe in the very same God of their ancestors masters. This alone shows the power of God, that can soften any heart that wants to be soften. The biggest atheist should be africans and natives.. yet they are not..so whats your excuse and how and in what way did the bible victimize you to hate God your creator. Stop living off the misfortune of others to validate yours belief. As we see descendants of africans slaves who are informed believe in God. Murder was murder and was punishable. 

  • Justinlee

    Fixing lela paragraphing. 

    Christianity gave the USA slavery….seriously are you that illiterate or do you need to say this to validate your unbelief. Slavery have always existed within all ancient civilizations. The correct translation for the word slave in the bible is servant or Bondservant. If I owed you money I’d have to work it off, be your servant/slave until the debt is paid off. You can’t make such statements when you never read the bible, all you’re doing is repeating what someone said or a paragraph from an anti-christian book. Educate yourself first and read the bible before you make such silly comments. American slavery can not be compared to what servitude was in the bible. Slavery built this empire and it still do today with it south american banana plantations. Slave men, women, boy, girl cattle was all raped by slave masters. The beat them, kill them, cut genitals off ( they were very obsess with private parts ), every inhumane thing you could think of this slave masters did. And today those developed and rich countries have slavery to thank. Slavery also had nothing to do with race or eugenics in the old days. Now lets read what the bible says on how to treat your slave/servant/bondservant.Exodus 21:20New American Standard Bible (NASB) 20 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies [a]at his hand, he shall [b]be punished.Exodus 21:27

    New American Standard Bible (NASB)27 And if he [a]knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.Name a white man who did this then we can start comparing slavery of the bible and your forefathers.Deuteronomy 23:15-16

    New American Standard Bible (NASB) 15 “(A)You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has [a]escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your [b]towns where it pleases him; (B)you shall not mistreat him.You don’t have to go far, just google slave wanted signs and you’ll see slaves were not allowed to run, they’d be shoot dead or hunted like an animal.

     Exodus 20:10New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it (A)you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you.Well in cotton season I dont think any slave rested

    .Deuteronomy 5:14New American Standard Bible (NASB)14 but (A)the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who [a]stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

    Those masters literally went out in search to enslave people who they deemed non human. Again slaves/servants/bondservants in the bible count be anyone there was no racial basis for it. Here is one example how you can become someone’s slave/servant/bondservant.

    Exodus 22Property Rights 1 “[a]If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for the ox and (A)four sheep for the sheep. 2 “[b]If the (B)thief is [c]caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. 3 But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be (C)sold for his theft.

    Tell me what did those natives or africans do to become slaves ?Why the genocide of natives ? All in the name of creating an empire, greed, selfishness and pure evil. Today we only like to talk about slavery when talking about christians. If you or anyone is so concern about slavery, it’s causes and currents problems that exist today…what measures have you taken to stop it ? Slavery had no end in this country it took a law to change the hearts of men, who still today in their elite offices run plantations today in poor developing countries and are racist as before and would conduct a genocide of all non white civilazations if they could..but then it would leave thme slave less. It’s the only way to be rich, keep the poor unprivileged so they can serve you and build your empire. 

    Exodus 21:2New American Standard Bible (NASB) 2 “If you buy (A)a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.

    Give me examples where slaves were set free after six years then we can compare slavery. Those american masters never read the bible in it’s true context they picked and choose verses to validate themselves. If they read these verses and still believed God wanted they to conduct this type of slavery, separting families, forcing slave women to breast feed the slave master baby over theirs, cutting off genitals, raping women and men. Then I say they are true devils who will reap what they sow for manipulating people with the bible.

    Deuteronomy 15:12New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free.Here we see the word ” kinsman” being used. 

    Deuteronomy 15:12-15New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “(A)If your [a]kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [b]free. 13 When you set him [c]free, you shall not send him away empty-handed.14 You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you [d]this today.I won’t make this one easy for you, go research jubilee.

    Leviticus 25:10New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and (A)proclaim [a]a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, [b]and (B)each of you shall return to his own property, [c]and each of you shall return to his family.

    Leviticus 25:53New American Standard Bible (NASB)53 Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; (A)he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight.be treated as a hired man

    Numbers 15:15-16New American Standard Bible (NASB)15 As for the assembly, there shall be (A)one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD. 16 There is to be (B)one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”I’ll just let scripture speak for itself enjoy and be educated. 

     American slavery had nothing to do with the bible, they were racist who were happy eugenics came around, after slavery ended they still raped, killed and abused these people even thought they were no longer slaves. Slavery or servitude in the bible did not discriminate, it was not base on race or color of skin, plus a person had the choice to willfully sell themselves and buy themselves, fathers willfully sold their daughters, free themselves and masters under the law had to free their slaves at some point. Unlike here where slaves and their families was past down to generation to generations, unless a member was sold. 

    Exodus 23:9New American Standard Bible (NASB) 9 “(A)You shall not oppress a [a]stranger, since you yourselves know the [b]feelings of a [c]stranger, for you alsowere [d]strangers in the land of Egypt.Yet these same outcast from europe who fled from their own prosecution and search for a better life had no regard or conscious and neglected a very important verse in the bible whose message was LOVE, for strangers and enemies. Money came first, kill the natives, steal the land, get new slaves to work the land..now an empire sits here today.Did the bible say thou must rape their slave/servant/kinsman/bondservant  ?

    Deuteronomy 22:25-27New American Standard Bible (NASB) 25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.They raped anything, married unmarried didn’t matter.

    Deuteronomy 24:19-21New American Standard Bible (NASB) 19 “(A)When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be (B)for the alien, for the [a]orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God (C)may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 (D)When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs[b]again; it shall be (E)for the alien, for the [c]orphan, and for the widow. 21 “When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not [d]go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the [e]orphan, and for the widow.

    Think what you want, you are free to do so but kindly take the time to do your research as I have. Don’t make statement to look intelligent when all you’re doing is repeating what someone else said. I’m bringing everything from the source the bible. Again American slavery was not based on the bible, they did use the bible to validate themselves and also to silent the true christians who  disagreed. When people don’t read the bible for themselves and money is more important american slavery exist. They also misquoted the bible to the slaves telling them it was the order of things that they must submit and God forbid them to run away. Slaves were not alloed to read the bible so manipulation was not hard. Yet today we see african americans who as you say are the victims of the bible have churches and believe in the very same God of their ancestors masters. This alone shows the power of God, that can soften any heart that wants to be soften. The biggest atheist should be africans and natives.. yet they are not..so whats your excuse and how and in what way did the bible victimize you to hate God your creator. Stop living off the misfortune of others to validate yours belief. As we see descendants of africans slaves who are informed believe in God. Murder was murder and was punishable.

  • Bigdickmegaherz

    This is not chan 4 chan… get your retard ass off here. Also, the point was simple, to become something simply to deny it is retarded. Just deny it and move on. Waste of time… not everything in life needs to be performance art.

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  • arn

    slavoj zizek (featured on this site earlier i belive) has written and talked much on (protestant) christianity and atheism, arguing something along the lines that christianity marks the end of pagan, superstitiuos religion. What dies on the cross with Jesus is the concept of God itself, as a transcendent entity securing the stability of the universe. Mankind is then left in the middle of nowhere –  with the Holy Spirit, which he interprets as the bond or pact between believers (communists). To Victory, Comrades! [pardon the silly inaccuracies, read his book The Monstrosity of Christ, an exchange between him and "pagan" christian John Milbank.]

  • Anonymous

    I was responding to the fact that you said the previous statement was incorrect, which you apparently didn’t understand if you think what you said was in contradiction to that. Without the concept of Jesus, there is no Christianity. Without Mohammed, there is no Islam. That doesn’t mean there aren’t ethics, but that does mean they’re not of the religion they claim to be. It’s “irrelevant” how much it resembles a made up character who wasn’t much better than a crazed charlatan to begin with.

  • Anonymous

    I was responding to the fact that you said the previous statement was incorrect, which you apparently didn’t understand if you think what you said was in contradiction to that. Without the concept of Jesus, there is no Christianity. Without Mohammed, there is no Islam. That doesn’t mean there aren’t ethics, but that does mean they’re not of the religion they claim to be. It’s “irrelevant” how much it resembles a made up character who wasn’t much better than a crazed charlatan to begin with.

  • Anonymous

    I was responding to the fact that you said the previous statement was incorrect, which you apparently didn’t understand if you think what you said was in contradiction to that. Without the concept of Jesus, there is no Christianity. Without Mohammed, there is no Islam. That doesn’t mean there aren’t ethics, but that does mean they’re not of the religion they claim to be. It’s “irrelevant” how much it resembles a made up character who wasn’t much better than a crazed charlatan to begin with.

  • Anonymous

    You should see how much some animals, i.e. dolphins and chimpanzees, are complete dicks to each other. I doubt it’s tied to religion for them. It’s mostly politics, who’s the leader of who and who gets to make up the rules (this behavior is also found amongst many different animal species). Animalism and politics come long before religion.

  • Moustachu

    Oh really?
    Well, Snookums, you speak as though the Christian religion  is and was the only organization, because of their belief to violate other human beings. Sheer numbers prove you wrong.     You speak as tho only Catholics have molested children, and yet the largest number of molestations and rapes are committed by non-believers or other religiously affiliated persons.    Check Fact -check for yourself.
    The Inquisition  is the onlt religious group that stands out in your mind, of a religious group who killed people?  The ancient Mayan religion sacrificed countless thousands if not millions of their own people.
    I’d say a more appropriate thing to conclude  might be man’s fallen nature and his own narcissism  is more likely an accurate reasoning for heinous crimes against it’s own species.

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