Second Recession In This ‘Double Dip’ Will Be Worse Than First

Panic1837_cropThere’s no doubt about it, the United States never really recovered from 2008’s crash and burn and the gas frantically poured on the fire by the Obama administration to “stimulate” the economy created nothing more than a spike in corporate profits that were never distributed to the people. What should we do now – start growing vegetables and stockpiling canned goods? Catherine Rampell reports on America’s dubious prospects for the New York Times:

If the economy falls back into recession, as many economists are now warning, the bloodletting could be a lot more painful than the last time around.

Given the tumult of the Great Recession, this may be hard to believe. But the economy is much weaker than it was at the outset of the last recession in December 2007, with most major measures of economic health — including jobs, incomes, output and industrial production — worse today than they were back then. And growth has been so weak that almost no ground has been recouped, even though a recovery technically started in June 2009.

“It would be disastrous if we entered into a recession at this stage, given that we haven’t yet made up for the last recession,” said Conrad DeQuadros, senior economist at RDQ Economics.

When the last downturn hit, the credit bubble left Americans with lots of fat to cut, but a new one would force families to cut from the bone. Making things worse, policy makers used most of the economic tools at their disposal to combat the last recession, and have few options available.

Anxiety and uncertainty have increased in the last few days after the decision by Standard & Poor’s to downgrade the country’s credit rating and as Europe continues its desperate attempt to stem its debt crisis.

President Obama acknowledged the challenge in his Saturday radio and Internet address, saying the country’s “urgent mission” now was to expand the economy and create jobs. And Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said in an interview on CNBC on Sunday that the United States had “a lot of work to do” because of its “long-term and unsustainable fiscal position.”…

[continues in the New York Times]

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  • Mamagriff50

    well let’s see…time to start taxing the super rich and corporations. “Trickle down does not work. They just get richer. Stop the bailouts. How about a flat tax? I use to think not…But with the unfair tax system today it may be the answer.

    • Nunzio X

      Trickle down doesn’t work, but evidently “money sucked upwards” DOES work.

      It’s like a tornado that sucks money from ordinary people at the bottom (and from the government, via corporate / banking welfare) and deposits it in the hands of the rich at the top.

      The ultra-rich “create jobs” the way a cricket creates symphonic music.

      Mostly what they do is hoard money and pass it on to their brats.

      If I was running the show, there’d be a 100% inheritance tax on all estates with a net worth of over $2 million. No more passing extreme wealth on to one’s family, but only to the general coffers.

      I now await your heated responses.

      • GregForest

        Inheriting a fortune is not much different from where I sit than royalty. One is rich and powerful because Daddy was. There is very little merit-based wealth in the world today. Oddly enough, the wealthy who actually earned their money are some of the most philanthropic while the dynastic generally just spend on themselves and their offspring. Inherited wealth just creates an over-class of inbred Paris Hiltons. I agree with your premise but I would up the ante to about $5 million. If you can’t get along in life with a $5 million head start, you deserve to eat from a Dumpster.

        • medicine ball

          philanthropy is the solution.

          • Jin The Ninja

            *eye roll* b/c that works SO well now.

            the concentration of charity in private hands is another insidious component of neo-liberal shock doctrine economics.

            i sound like a broken recording: do away with capitalism do away with poverty.

          • Hadrian999

            the question is what do you replace it with

          • Jin The Ninja

            Participatory Economics and Consensus Democracy?

          • Hadrian999

            one can hope but knowing what you know of human nature do you believe you will see it?

            another stumbling block is the nature of modern manufacturing, some things can be made by pretty much anyone with the means, but as you go up the technology ladder you run into the problems of patents and copy rights, without the capitalist model where will new R&D come from who will put time and money into developing new products and supporting them. things that can work in an agrarian early industrial society just wont work as society and technology advances

          • Guest

            LOL my reply makes no sense now that edited.

            I will reply properly in a bit.

          • Andrew

            At their most basic, capitalism is merely the private ownership of means of production and socialism is merely state ownership of means of production.  If not taken to extremes there is no contradiction between the two, and I don’t think either are a problem.  I have a garden in my backyard, which makes me a capitalist.  I also support socialized medicine.

            I think the problem is that some individuals and corporations have hoarded enough wealth and capital to limit and control the opportunities of others.  You could say they’ve cornered the market on freedom and are going for a monopoly.

          • Mamagriff50

            Bravo. You make a very good point.

          • Jin The Ninja

            I totally disagree.

            http://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Discontents-Conversations-Thinkers/dp/160486334X

            Read This book. It was a life changer.

      • Redacted

        I don’t agree with a 100% tax, but it does need to be much higher than it is now.

      • Hadrian999

        an inheritance tax would be just as useless, people would either make sure they put their wealth in places it couldn’t be touched or spent it all before it could be taken. people are greedy animals,  a high inheritance tax would have the effect if discouraging work and building your own personal empires, why build anything if it will get taken from you? might as well coast along like the rest of the rabble

  • Mamagriff50

    well let’s see…time to start taxing the super rich and corporations. “Trickle down does not work. They just get richer. Stop the bailouts. How about a flat tax? I use to think not…But with the unfair tax system today it may be the answer.

  • Mamagriff50

    well let’s see…time to start taxing the super rich and corporations. “Trickle down does not work. They just get richer. Stop the bailouts. How about a flat tax? I use to think not…But with the unfair tax system today it may be the answer.

  • Mamagriff50

    well let’s see…time to start taxing the super rich and corporations. “Trickle down does not work. They just get richer. Stop the bailouts. How about a flat tax? I use to think not…But with the unfair tax system today it may be the answer.

  • Nunzio X

    Trickle down doesn’t work, but evidently “money sucked upwards” DOES work.

    It’s like a tornado that sucks money from ordinary people at the bottom (and from the government, via corporate / banking welfare) and deposits it in the hands of the rich at the top.

    The ultra-rich “create jobs” the way a cricket creates symphonic music.

    Mostly what they do is hoard money and pass it on to their brats.

    If I was running the show, there’d be a 100% inheritance tax on all estates with a net worth of over $2 million. No more passing extreme wealth on to one’s family, but only to the general coffers.

    I now await your heated responses.

  • Anonymous

    Inheriting a fortune is not much different from where I sit than royalty. One is rich and powerful because Daddy was. There is very little merit-based wealth in the world today. Oddly enough, the wealthy who actually earned their money are some of the most philanthropic while the dynastic generally just spend on themselves and their offspring. Inherited wealth just creates an over-class of inbred Paris Hiltons. I agree with your premise but I would up the ante to about $5 million. If you can’t get along in life with a $5 million head start, you deserve to eat from a Dumpster.

  • Anonymous

    I just paid $ 23.86 for an iPhone and my girlfriend loves her Dell laptop that we got for $ 38.76 there arriving tomorrow by UPS I will never pay such expensive retail prices in stores again. Especially when I also sold a 42 inch LED TV to my boss for $ 665 which only cost me $ 62,81 to buy. Here is the website we use to get it all from, GrabPenny.com

  • medicine ball

    There are no more kool factory jobs as the Chinese manufacture stuff as a hobby for free just to have something to do, instead of rising up. No more fine american made goods made with pride. Since there is nothing worthy for my hands to do i masturbate in protest for a better tomorrow. soon the USA is going to start charging the world protection money to keep from pressing the nuclear button, now thats making money!!!!! Nothing like blowing something up to jump start the economy.

    • chinagreenelvis

      “I masturbate in protest for a better tomorrow.”

      Pure gold.

      • medicine ball

        no u!

  • medicine ball

    There are no more kool factory jobs as the Chinese manufacture stuff as a hobby for free just to have something to do, instead of rising up. No more fine american made goods made with pride. Since there is nothing worthy for my hands to do i masturbate in protest for a better tomorrow. soon the USA is going to start charging the world protection money to keep from pressing the nuclear button, now thats making money!!!!! Nothing like blowing something up to jump start the economy.

  • chinagreenelvis

    “I masturbate in protest for a better tomorrow.”

    Pure gold.

  • Andrew

    Can you say “depression?”

  • Andrew

    Can you say “depression?”

  • medicine ball

    philanthropy is the solution.

  • medicine ball

    no u!

  • Anonymous

    I don’t agree with a 100% tax, but it does need to be much higher than it is now.

  • jp

    OMFG, i despise all this talk of “Creating new jobs”, its not helping, sure make more jobs, more useless products and more wastes of time that NO ONE ACTUALLY ENJOYS, so we can die under a giant heap of trash, boredom, listlessness, desperation and pointlessness, if the earth doesn’t strike back first. FUCK you Obama. Get a goddamn clue.

    • Mamagriff50

      Yes the whole mentality of mankind needs to change, but you know it is to late. The earth is striking back, there is no stopping her. This is not Obamas fault. He’s just trying to stop an avalanch created by the Republicans. To bad hes being buried by it.

      • Guest

        Created by the Republicans?  Are you for real?  We are using the same system that has been in place for 44 presidents now.  And you’re going to blame one Republican?  See, it’s shit like this that keeps us from moving forward.  You’re arguing the wrong argument.  Both parties are the same.  The sooner you accept that, the more easier it is to see the way out of this mess.  Sure, the system works… for those with the most money.  Our country was founded by the rich and was designed to serve the rich.  Besides, there’s a whole lot more bullshit we don’t know and really can’t judge on.  Fact is, we don’t know the half of what’s really going on.  All we see is the show, the game of politics, that they want us to see.  And no, it’s not too late.  The time is now.  It is happening now.  We are all becoming aware of it.  It’s not going to be too late before we have a chance to become aware of things and have an opportunity to change them.  Damn, Debbie Downer.

        • 5by5

          Yes, amazingly, I’m going to give the lion’s share of the blame to a man who took us from a $300 billion dollar surplus, to a $12 trillion dollar deficit.

          I’m not going to blame the guy who’s saddled with the INTEREST on that stupid frat boy’s debt.

          What I am going to insist on, is that Obama stop incessantly compromising with the giant bag of CRAZY on the other side of the aisle, and start sticking up for his BASE.

          • DeepCough

            His base is Goldman Sachs.

        • http://www.facebook.com/cuff.camlin Christian Camlin

          Most of us blame more than one Republican president I blame 3 of them and the contract that Newt Gingrich and The Republican party took out on Middle class America Back in 1994.Even Clintons Administration was dominated by a Republican congress.But this downturn began with Deregulation under Reagan back in 1981.The Republican created Avalanche took a lot longer than 8 years to build.And may take longer than 4 years to fix.All OBama was able to do was temperarily cauterize the wound.After that The Republicans cried bloody murder over spending when they opened the spigot wide for 3 decades.After they screamed bloody murder  Obama could no longer muster the resources he needed to complete the recovery.anbd now after 2 and a half years they blaim Obama for not fixing a System that is collapsing under the weight of a system established 60 years ago and mismanaged since at leat 1981.

    • ojs glove

      I liked the part where you said FUCK you Obama.

    • cake!

      LMAO boredom? Pointlessness? thats your parents fault.

      Nihilist/anti-natalist.

  • jp

    OMFG, i despise all this talk of “Creating new jobs”, its not helping, sure make more jobs, more useless products and more wastes of time that NO ONE ACTUALLY ENJOYS, so we can die under a giant heap of trash, boredom, listlessness, desperation and pointlessness, if the earth doesn’t strike back first. FUCK you Obama. Get a goddamn clue.

  • Anonymous

    *eye roll* b/c that works SO well now.

    the concentration of charity in private hands is another insidious component of neo-liberal shock doctrine economics.

    i sound like a broken recording: do away with capitalism do away with poverty.

  • Hadrian999

    the question is what do you replace it with

  • Hadrian999

    an inheritance tax would be just as useless, people would either make sure they put their wealth in places it couldn’t be touched or spent it all before it could be taken. people are greedy animals,  a high inheritance tax would have the effect if discouraging work and building your own persona empires, why build anything if it will get taken from you? might as well coast along like the rest of the rabble

  • Mamagriff50

    Yes the whole mentality of mankind needs to change, but you know it is to late. The earth is striking back, there is no stopping her. This is not Obamas fault. He’s just trying to stop an avalanch created by the Republicans. To bad hes being buried by it.

  • Anonymous

    Participatory Economics and Consensus Democracy?

  • ojs glove

    I liked the part where you said FUCK you Obama.

  • Hadrian999

    one can hope but knowing what you know of human nature do you believe you will see it?

  • Anonymous

    Nope.

  • BFS

    “Making things worse, policy makers used most of the economic tools at their disposal to combat the last recession, and have few options available” I cry bull-fucking-shit on this statement. 

    • Guest

      I really doubt there are any more options available for them to continue what they are doing and not pay any consequences.  I really believe if they could make this go on longer, they would, and that would surely be in their interest.

  • BFS

    “Making things worse, policy makers used most of the economic tools at their disposal to combat the last recession, and have few options available” I cry bull-fucking-shit on this statement. 

  • BFS

    “Making things worse, policy makers used most of the economic tools at their disposal to combat the last recession, and have few options available” I cry bull-fucking-shit on this statement. 

  • BFS

    “Making things worse, policy makers used most of the economic tools at their disposal to combat the last recession, and have few options available” I cry bull-fucking-shit on this statement. 

  • Andrew

    At their most basic, capitalism is merely the private ownership of means of production and socialism is merely state ownership of means of production.  If not taken to extremes there is no contradiction between the two, and I don’t think either are a problem.  I have a garden in my backyard, which makes me a capitalist.  I also support socialized medicine.

    I think the problem is that some individuals and corporations have hoarded enough wealth and capital to limit and control the opportunities of others.  You could say they’ve cornered the market on freedom and are going for a monopoly.

  • Mamagriff50

    Bravo. You make a very good point.

  • Mamagriff50

    Bravo. You make a very good point.

  • Mamagriff50

    Bravo. You make a very good point.

  • Mamagriff50

    Bravo. You make a very good point.

  • Mamagriff50

    Bravo. You make a very good point.

  • Mamagriff50

    Bravo. You make a very good point.

  • Anonymous

    I totally disagree.

    http://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Discontents-Conversations-Thinkers/dp/160486334X

    Read This book. It was a life changer.

  • Anonymous

    I totally disagree.

    http://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Discontents-Conversations-Thinkers/dp/160486334X

    Read This book. It was a life changer.

  • Anonymous

    I totally disagree.

    http://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Discontents-Conversations-Thinkers/dp/160486334X

    Read This book. It was a life changer.

  • Anonymous

    I totally disagree.

    http://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Discontents-Conversations-Thinkers/dp/160486334X

    Read This book. It was a life changer.

  • Anonymous

    I totally disagree.

    http://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Discontents-Conversations-Thinkers/dp/160486334X

    Read This book. It was a life changer.

  • Guest

    Created by the Republicans?  Are you for real?  We are using the same system that has been in place for 44 presidents now.  And you’re going to blame one Republican?  See, it’s shit like this that keeps us from moving forward.  You’re arguing the wrong argument.  Both parties are the same.  The sooner you accept that, the more easier it is to see the way out of this mess.  Sure, the system works… for those with the most money.  Our country was founded by the rich and was designed to serve the rich.  Besides, there’s a whole lot more bullshit we don’t know and really can’t judge on.  Fact is, we don’t know the half of what’s really going on.  All we see is the show, the game of politics, that they want us to see.  And no, it’s not too late.  The time is now.  It is happening now.  We are all becoming aware of it.  It’s not going to be too late before we have a chance to become aware of things and have an opportunity to change them.  Damn, Debbie Downer.

  • Guest

    I really doubt there are any more options available for them to continue what they are doing and not pay any consequences.  I really believe if they could make this go on longer, they would, and that would surely be in their interest.

  • 5by5

    Yes, amazingly, I’m going to give the lion’s share of the blame to a man who took us from a $300 billion dollar surplus, to a $12 trillion dollar deficit.

    I’m not going to blame the guy who’s saddled with the INTEREST on that stupid frat boy’s debt.

    What I am going to insist on, is that Obama stop incessantly compromising with the giant bag of CRAZY on the other side of the aisle, and start sticking up for his BASE.

  • cake!

    LMAO boredom? Pointlessness? thats your parents fault.

    Nihilist/anti-natalist.

  • DeepCough

    His base is Goldman Sachs.

  • DeepCough

    People need to do in D.C. what anarchists do in Seattle when the World Trade Organization comes to town
    (RIOT, BITCHES, RIOT!).

  • DeepCough

    People need to do in D.C. what anarchists do in Seattle when the World Trade Organization comes to town
    (RIOT, BITCHES, RIOT!).

  • Weathered994

    I think it’s much worse than the first recession, and Obama is making it worse. He doesn’t know what he is doing. It’s a mess !!!

  • Weathered994

    I think it’s much worse than the first recession, and Obama is making it worse. He doesn’t know what he is doing. It’s a mess !!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/cuff.camlin Christian Camlin

    Most of us blame more than one Republican president I blame 3 of them and the contract that Newt Gingrich and The Republican party took out on Middle class America Back in 1994.Even Clintons Administration was dominated by a Republican congress.But this downturn began with Deregulation under Reagan back in 1981.The Republican created Avalanche took a lot longer than 8 years to build.And may take longer than 4 years to fix.All OBama was able to do was temperarily cauterize the wound.After that The Republicans cried bloody murder over spending when they opened the spigot wide for 3 decades.After they screamed bloody murder  Obama could no longer muster the resources he needed to complete the recovery.anbd now after 2 and a half years they blaim Obama for not fixing a System that is collapsing under the weight of a system established 60 years ago and mismanaged since at leat 1981.

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