Do You Speak Christianese?

John Blake reveals the doublespeak code words and phrases that Christians use to convey hidden meanings to one another, for CNN:

Can you speak Christian?

Have you told anyone “I’m born again?” Have you “walked the aisle” to “pray the prayer?”

Did you ever “name and claim” something and, after getting it, announce, “I’m highly blessed and favored?”

Many Americans are bilingual. They speak a secular language of sports talk, celebrity gossip and current events. But mention religion and some become armchair preachers who pepper their conversations with popular Christian words and trendy theological phrases.

If this is you, some Christian pastors and scholars have some bad news: You may not know what you’re talking about. They say that many contemporary Christians have become pious parrots. They constantly repeat Christian phrases that they don’t understand or distort.

Marcus Borg, an Episcopal theologian, calls this practice “speaking Christian.” He says he heard so many people misusing terms such as “born again” and “salvation” that he wrote a book about the practice.

People who speak Christian aren’t just mangling religious terminology, he says. They’re also inventing counterfeit Christian terms such as “the rapture” as if they were a part of essential church teaching.

The rapture, a phrase used to describe the sudden transport of true Christians to heaven while the rest of humanity is left behind to suffer, actually contradicts historic Christian teaching, Borg says…

[continues to CNN]

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  • steward

    From the Herman Cain for President official website: “He accepted the call to become the President and CEO of Godfather’s Pizza…” In Christianese, this means he was sort of like the head minister for Godfather’s.  Totally weird.

    • anti-crowley

      This is a politician trying to win the Christian vote.  These politicians use these terms (wrongly most of the time) not because the represent Christianity, but they recognize that there are many Christians in the country.  No different then when they mention minority groups or a certain demographic to win them over.  But I think you already knew that and are just looking for any possible reason to hate on Christians.  It will please you to know that Christians also believe that in the not to distant future, the world will begin killing and throwing them in prison simply for being Christian.  I’m sure those on this post will cheer when it happens.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        Who said anything about hating christians?  Every time I have seen that mentioned, it comes from you.  Could it be that, deep down, you recognize the evil and folly of your beliefs?  If so, kindly refrain from projecting your innermost disgust with yourself onto others.  

  • http://en-pi.facebook.com/steward John Deltuvia

    From the Herman Cain for President official website: “He accepted the call to become the President and CEO of Godfather’s Pizza…” In Christianese, this means he was sort of like the head minister for Godfather’s.  Totally weird.

  • postpunkprometheus

    This is the sort of nonsense that Glenn Beck used to excite his audience (when he had one).  The use of the terms like “end times” or anything about Israel tends to have a dog whistle effect amongst the American Christian right or otherwise religiously inclined. 

    Michele Bachmann’s use of ‘bondage’ regarding homosexuality comes to mind. She doesn’t mean literal bondage but some sort of biblical reference to one’s spiritual state of being.  This sort of double speak reminds me of her relation with Mr Bachmann.  Something I’d call “Sampson’s Beard” 

    At any rate this is the fastest way to figure out who not to vote for, president or otherwise.

  • http://madmonq.wordpress.com madmonq

    This is the sort of nonsense that made Glenn Beck used to excite his audience while he had one.  The use of the terms like “end times” or anything about Israel tends to have a dog whistle effect amongst the American Christian right or otherwise religiously inclined. 

    Michele Bachmann’s use of ‘bondage’ regarding homosexuality comes to mind. She doesn’t mean literal bondage but some sort of biblical reference to one’s spiritual state of being.  This sort of double speak reminds me of her relation with him Mr Bachmann.  Something I’d call “Sampson’s Beard” 

    At any rate this is the fastest way to figure out who not to vote for, president or otherwise.

  • http://madmonq.wordpress.com madmonq

    This is the sort of nonsense that made Glenn Beck used to excite his audience while he had one.  The use of the terms like “end times” or anything about Israel tends to have a dog whistle effect amongst the American Christian right or otherwise religiously inclined. 
     
    Michele Bachmann’s use of ‘bondage’ regarding homosexuality comes to mind. She doesn’t mean literal bondage but some sort of biblical reference to one’s spiritual state of being.  This sort of double speak reminds me of her relation with him Mr Bachmann.  Something I’d call “Sampson’s Beard” 
     
    At any rate this is the fastest way to figure out who not to vote for, president or otherwise.

  • WickedGoodUsername

    I believe the catch-all term in “Dog Whistle”. Plenty of things that get dropped in conversation (esp between strangers, or between folks that know each other when there are strangers around) to indicate what they REALLY mean but in a more politically correct way, ie: “International Bankers” = “The Jews/ZOG”. Two racists speaking together are likely to use “filthy jew”, but an unknown person with them or one known to be “Liberal” (as in “not a fascist bigot”) and International Bankers gets used.

    Yes, some of it is very obvious, but a lot of it is both subtle and not even really understood by a lot of folks that use it day-to-day.

    • De Carabas

      So when left leaning anti-globalists are denouncing the IMF they are actually being fascist anti-Semites? While you are correct that people speak in layers of meaning, your oversimplification and us vs. them mentality do you a disservice.

      • WickedGoodUsername

        I am actually pretty supportive of the anti-globalization movement, and no, that’s not what I am saying. the term “International Bankers” has long been known (and may be one of the best known) as a term that is used to mask “The Jews that run the world” thought pattern. Lyndon LaRouche was using it as a “Dog Whistle” in the early ’70’s and you can prolly date it back to as far as the English Civil War (making reasonable decisions about language and it’s usage) if you really wanted to.

        • Andrew

          That’s why I use the term “multinational banksters.”

          • WickedGoodUsername

            I generally drop the “Multinational” part since I feel in a global economy its redundant. I do use “Banksters” all too often though, but yea, I’m with you…

    • anti-crowley

      So what’s the major complaint amongst you?  Is it that Christians won’t shut up and stay out of the public eye, or that they are using lexicon unique to their beliefs in some hidden agenda?  I love how many hear on other posts have blamed Christians for being hate mongering, judgmental antagonists.   So what would you call this little party? 

      • WickedGoodUsername

        So far you have implied that non-believers want to put all Christians in camps, (above) or stated “It will please you to know that Christians also believe that in the not to distant future, the world will begin killing and throwing them in prison simply for being Christian.  I’m sure those on this post will
        cheer when it happens.” (below), however, I haven’t seen anything like this from the posters you reply too. The worst I have seen is “Go away, leave us alone”

        (edit: In spite of the lack of anti-Semitic language here you accuse others of it, more projection)

        It’s this kind of “Poor. Poor Persecuted Us” mentality and projection of what *YOU* want to do to non-believers (also lets not forget that *YOU* are the only one capable of deciding how to worship) that makes me dislike you folks so much.

        So called “Christians” make up some 75-80 percent of the population of the US, they dominate all branches for government, they continually try to interject their own version of “Sharia” (with great success) into the laws of a country that was founded on religious freedom (among other freedoms), and yet you (and your fellow “Christians”) are a downtrodden, persecuted class that people want to round up, put in camps and kill.

        You state “I love how many hear on other posts have blamed Christians for being hate mongering, judgmental antagonists.” This may be because it’s “Christians” that are calling for the exclusion of gays, atheists, and a number of other classes from some of the most basic public protections and basic human rights (indeed, even advocating death in some places), making pronouncements that various scientifically explainable events are the result of “God” hating various groups, and telling outright lies to support their beliefs.

        So, basically, the reason folks “hear” (Homonyms, how do the work?) feel  that “Christians for being hate mongering, judgmental antagonists” is because they act like hate mongering, judgmental antagonists

        Does that cross get heavy? I assure you it will get worse when you add the goalposts you will move next (since you have used “strawman” and “projection” so far). Anyway, I have had enough of you troll, this is the last you get from me.

        • anti-crowley

          When I first looked at this post there were 26 posts all trolling against Christians.  26 comments full of hatred and name calling.  If you think that by coming in here, taking offense to those statements and responding is out of line, then you need to grow up.  Some of the comments started slandering Jews when they were not part of the topic!  If you get butt hurt when someone defends their beliefs, then it is very easy to see why you are so paranoid about Christians “controlling” your life.   You then compare Christianity to “Sharia law?”  You compare us to those who murder women if their hair or ankle should be exposed?  The same sharia law that I have fought a lost friends to oppose and free the truly oppressed?  Further you claim that Christians are trying to exclude atheists…how so?  You can pick out the crazies that protest at funerals as i am sure they are the ones you use to generalize.  As if there aren’t crazies in any sampling of society.  You have evolution taught in schools, legalized abortion and a litany of other rights protected by law that are anything but Christian.  I grew up in the public edu system, don’t remember there being a lot of “God” talk going on there, almost entirely they are the atheists who push legislation relating to religion.  Freedom of religion is the right to practice it, not your right to stop it.  I have the feeling that hypocrites like you will be heard from again, you are just as loud, insistent and hateful and any other stereotypes that you pretend to champion against.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Some of the comments started slandering Jews when they were not part of the topic!

            What posts were slandering Jews???  You’ve mentioned this several times, where are you getting this?

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            He’s making it up from the delusional depths of his mind.  When you don’t have any facts to support your position, you must distract, delay, deny, and distort.  Sadly, he isn’t even very good at those things.  Should we give him an “E” for effort?

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            What you choose to mislabel as hate and name-calling are no more than simple statements of observed facts.  If the facts make you so uncomfortable you are forced to lie about them, perhaps you would feel better in a totally christian site.  At least there, no one would question unsubstantiated statements, outright lies, and myths.  After all, those are the foundation of that religion, so they are expecting those things.

        • anti-crowley

          BTW, if you had ever traveled the world you would see the continuous persecution and murder of Christians.  I have seen it and I hear the same garbage coming from them who do it, usually it is in Arabic, Pashtu, Uru, Mandarin or Russian.  But hey, your bubble is the edge of the world right?

          • neurolux

            You’re right WickedGoodUsername. anti-crowley did move the goalposts, from the US to the whole world.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I have traveled the world.  Besides seven US states, I have lived in The Netherlands, Quebec, and now Brazil.  In addition, I have traveled in Mexico, to Hong Kong, Southeast Asia, and many other places.  

            Where christians are persecuted, it is in totalitarian theocracies like Iran.  Ironically enough, a totalitarian  theocracy is exactly what many christians want to establish in the USA. Look up “dominionism”.  If that happens, the persecution of gays, atheists and believers in the “wrong” sect of christianity will make the muslims look like a model of tolerance and restraint.  Don’t think so?  Then reflect upon the witch burnings, the inquisition, family planning clinic bombings, and the entire era known as “the dark ages”.  

            Those are all facts.  Disprove them if you can.  Ignore them as we expect.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        The major complaint I have is that all theists wish to enact their personal beliefs into laws for everyone.  You don’t have to shut up at all.  I have been told to “just shut up” many times by christians, but my thinking is different.

        If you can convince others of the truth of your beliefs by using verifiable facts, logic, and rational thinking, good on ya, mate.  Just don’t use public money to do it, proselytize in public schools, or pass your thinking into laws for everyone.  

        When I consider how many times I have asked you and many other theists for proof, logic, or rational thinking and have never received any of them, even once, it’s no surprise you have to resort to underhanded means to force your views on others.

  • Anonymous

    I believe the catch-all term in “Dog Whistle”. Plenty of things that get dropped in conversation (esp between strangers, or between folks that know each other when there are strangers around) to indicate what they REALLY mean but in a more politically correct way, ie: “International Bankers” = “The Jews/ZOG”. Two racists speaking together are likely to use “filthy jew”, but an unknown person with them or one known to be “Liberal” (as in “not a fascist bigot”) and International Bankers gets used.

    Yes, some of it is very obvious, but a lot of it is both subtle and not even really understood by a lot of folks that use it day-to-day.

  • WickedGoodUsername

    OK, missed the “Dog Whistle” usage below, but gonna leave my post intact.

  • Anonymous

    OK, missed the “Dog Whistle” usage below, but gonna leave my post intact.

  • De Carabas

    So when left leaning anti-globalists are denouncing the IMF they are actually being fascist anti-Semites? While you are correct that people speak in layers of meaning, your oversimplification and us vs. them mentality do you a disservice.

  • Anonymous

    I am actually pretty supportive of the anti-globalization movement, and no, that’s not what I am saying. the term “International Bankers” has long been known (and may be one of the best known) as a term that is used to mask “The Jews that run the world” thought pattern. Lyndon LaRouche was using it as a “Dog Whistle” in the early ’70’s and you can prolly date it back to as far as the English Civil War (making reasonable decisions about language and it’s usage) if you really wanted to.

  • Andrew

    That’s why I use the term “multinational banksters.”

  • Jim

    Wherefore my bowels shall sound like a harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh. (Isaiah 16:11)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSvtd9zGZkM&feature=related

  • Jim

    Wherefore my bowels shall sound like a harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh. (Isaiah 16:11)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSvtd9zGZkM&feature=related

  • Anonymous

    I generally drop the “Multinational” part since I feel in a global economy its redundant. I do use “Banksters” all too often though, but yea, I’m with you…

  • Anarchy Pony

    Isn’t this a little old? I seem to remember this from maybe a month or two ago.

    • anti-crowley

      You mean the anti-Semite babble?  That goes much farther back than a month or two.

      • Anarchy Pony

        Um, no I am referring to this particular topic from CNN, which I recall hearing about some time ago. But I mean why would you have any sense of perspective what so ever? You seem to believe in some vast conspiracy to round up everyone that believes in your particular fantasy and put them to death. Which is fairly on the paranoid side. But hey whatever you need to cling to to give your life purpose. Indignant and apparent outrage that others may have grown tired of your fantasy’s dominance over aspects of life today and the appalling acts it has perpetrated throughout the last 700 years. Including the genocide of native peoples and destruction of their cultures as well as the legitimacy it lends to the rape and destruction of the natural world, the entrapment of nearly all humanity in the cage of civilization which is destroying our planetary life support systems. But go ahead and pretend your extensive knowledge of the history of your religion somehow means that it is the end all be all absolute truth.

      • http://www.facebook.com/elpolloloco52 Josh Adkisson

        Anti-crowley, you need to shut the fuck up. I’m sure any wise religious teacher would tell you the same. It isn’t your job to respond to every single fucking post on here. You’re just making yourself out to be an attention whore.

        • anti-crowley

          I’m sorry Adkisson, I should let you all get on with your business.  Don’t let me interupt your Christian bash fest…oh wait I didn’t.  Really all I have done is give you a specific Christian to bash on.  Guess you don’t like having someone here who defends themselves.  The regular contributors to anything like this fit your definition of “attention whore.”  That’s why we all come on here, to voice our opinions.  I am responding to so many because as in most cases, I seem to be the only Christian posting on here.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Defends himself?  How?  By continually making ridiculous statements, evading direct questions, and being an example of everything foolish and silly about christians?  

            I think I’ll send some of your posts to some christian friends for their opinion.  Would you like to hear what they have to say?  Probably not.  LMAO!

          • anti-crowley

            Much not be much going on in Brazil huh Jimmy?  Be nice now or we’ll take away your social security.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I will be nice to you when you stop running away, changing the subject and actually answer a question.  How about you accept my offer of a free trip to Brazil?

            You couldn’t take a lollipop away from a 5 y/o.  If he said “Boo!” to you, you’d wet your pants and fall down whining, “Don’t persecute me any more!”  

            Be a decent human being for just once in your life and answer a question.  Where is your proof of anything you have ever said?  

            Or, Have you always been a liar with no personal ethics or courage?  Or did you learn it along with your religion?  The two seem to go together quite well.  That isn’t hate as you wish to label it, just an observation of the facts.

          • anti-crowley

            NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO….not to your friends, okay I’ll do whatever you like Mr. Jimmy.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Do you never get tired of demonstrating what an arrogant asshole you are?  Apparently not.  But then, maybe you are simply too stupid to do anything else?

            If you want to do something I say, you can improve the average IQ and moral decency of the human race.  First, go to a very high cliff….

      • Tuna Ghost

        What anti-semite babble???  Seriously, where are you seeing anti-semitism?  The majority of posters here (regardless of their views on Israel) are against anti-semitism, except for the few who use “bankers” as synonyms for “jews”, where on earth are you seeing anti-semitism?  This is a real question.  Please tell me where you are seeing this.

  • Wanooski

    Isn’t this a little old? I seem to remember this from maybe a month or two ago.

  • DeepCough

    For those that believe in the “Immaculate Conception,” understand that, in the original Latin, the word “virgin” is derived from the word “virgo,” (yes, that’s the Zodiac sign and constellation), and strictly speaking, it means “young woman” or “young maiden.” It did not mean “unsexed female” or “unadulterated” or “pure” exactly. And that’s just one of MANY mistranslations from the ancient texts to the modern English versions of the Bible.

    • anti-crowley

      What was it in Aramaic or Greek, perhaps you can tell us what it is in Hebrew?  The original language of those that wrote the New Testament was not Latin.  That was a later translation of the Septuagint. 

      • Calypso_1

        one shoud not be so disturbed by a reference to latin as opposed to hebrew, aramaic…etc; considering at the time of christ’s supposed birth, judea was a roman province. Also – Lo, and behold the greek (which the new testament WAS written in) is ‘parthenos’, which has the same meaning as the latin.  and let us not forget those “holy virgins” in so many religious traditions who gave consummation to absolution seeking temple penitents!  Alas redemption by holy virgins – now we have stale crackers and suicide bombers with only a dreams of holy quim …humanity is a silly thing.

        • anti-crowley

          3933 parthénos – properly, a virgin; a woman who has never had sexual relations; a female (virgin), beyond puberty but not yet married; (figuratively) believers when they are pure (chaste), i.e. faithful to Christ their heavenly Bridegroom (2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:4).  In reference to Mary’s status as a virgin in the Greek is as follows.
          Matthew 1:23 Greek Study Bible
          ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἔξει καὶ τέξεται υἱὸν, καὶ καλέσουσιν τὸ ὅνομα αὐτοῦ Ἐμμανουηλ, ὅ ἐστιν μεθερμηνευόμενον μεθ’ ἡμῶν ὁ θεός.

          Alas, the ridiculous claim that the Greek term is not accoaciated with one who has not engaged in sexual intercourse can be put to rest.  The fact that people tried to attack this is funny.  Of all the things you could go in for, you pick this?  Have been involved in this “aplogetic” format for a few years now, but it is usually with those who have some education on the matter.  Calypso seems to have recently done some looking into it, but that was most likely on Google translate.

          Finding commonalities such as the fact that other systems have included virgins is a silly attempt at refutation.  It only goes to show that one’s virginity was considered pure and that seems to be that case across most cultures and beliefs.

           

          • Calypso_1

            ah strong’s concordance, the weighty tome that empowers so many a ‘beliver’ into realms of scholary prowess.  you and your apologists, so erudite, how could I have missed it before.  perhaps you should have subtly woven into your straw man golden threads of hermenutic dross, so when the winnowing winds of wisdom flamed forth from your tongue I would have indeed known the clarity of spirit that dwells in you!  
            here is another one for you 1692: emeo – from which our our modern word emesis comes from.  I would rather clean the vomit from a drunken begger than step into any church in this world.  I dream of a day when humanity can close the book on the apocalyptic nightmare that is the foundation of modern day abrahamic religious fervour.  Both church and mosque have swallowed with rapturous greed the fear mongering cultic mind fuck that is being sold as ‘end-times prophecy’….but indoctrination to ‘faith-based’ intellectual reasoning systems that exclude scholarly evidence outside their predetermined world view occlude the neccesary perceptive ability to see the very human mechanisms involved in manipulating the masses.

          • slayerwulfe

            It’s ok to call it what it is from the language I think most are at least used to adult language. Puberty ? I have no idea. Bleeding virgins I understand. 

      • DeepCough

        Y’know, before Jesus Christ, there was a couple of twins who were “immaculately conceived” by a Vestal Virgin who did not keep her vow of chastity as she should have, because failing to do so would mean death, and those twins were Romulus and Remus, the founders of Roma. See, there’s nothing original or special about your Jesus, you Gentilic fuck.

        • anti-crowley

          See above, perfect example of lack of knowledge in the area of logical debate.  If I can find another country who has elected a black president before we did, does that mean Barrack Obama is not real?  Climb back into your ignorant hole.

          • DeepCough

            You wanna bring up logical progression, especially when you’re the one who’s been crying Anti-Semitism all through this thread? Your funeral–

            For starters, there is no proof in the Old Testament that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, Christian theologians just liked to pick and choose chapters and verse in the Old Testament scripture to support their point, like in Jeremiah 31:21 and Isaiah 7:14

            Furthermore, to address your assertion of Greek translation of the Septuagint, chances are that the scholars who wrote that text mistranslated a lot of words and one of them was the Hebraic word “almah,” which means “young woman who has hit puberty,” not “unsexed female” like the Greek word “parthenos” allegedly means.

            Now, I don’t know where you got the impression that this thread is all about “Christian bashing,” but by asserting that there is, you’ve done nothing but invite harsh invectives upon yourself by not being able to fucking read. Why don’t go back to your precious Bible and read this verse, bitch?

            “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
            shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:5

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Speaking of ignorance of logic, your post should be used as a perfect example.  

        • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

          You give one example, in the image, I’ll provide a few more.  Christianity is a lie, has been lying even now, and attracts liars, as we see here.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        Yes, the babble has been translated (often badly) many times.  Do you suppose no errors in interpretation were ever made.  Do you think that no one ever “adjusted” what was written for political, personal, or other reasons?  (But “For a good cause”)

        Even a few verifiable historical events tossed in as an attempt a credibility doesn’t make anything else true.

  • DeepCough

    For those that believe in the “Immaculate Conception,” understand that, in the original Latin, the word “virgin” is derived from the word “virgo,” (yes, that’s the Zodiac sign and constellation), and strictly speaking, it means “young woman” or “young maiden.” It did not mean “unsexed female” or “unadulterated” or “pure” exactly. And that’s just one of MANY mistranslations from the ancient texts to the modern English versions of the Bible.

  • EyeoftheAxis

    Instead of goodbye they say “Be Blessed”.

    A condescending little dollop of religion to send you on your way,

    …like it or not.

    I want to say “ I am fucking blessed… you didn’t hear about my penis ? ”

    • Andrew

      You’re thinking of “Be Endowed.”

    • anti-crowley

      That’s right EyeoftheAxis, don’t stoop to the Christian’s level of immaturity.  I good dick joke will drive your point home.

      • dumbsaint

        0/10

    • neurolux

      So you reply with a neo-pagan “Blessed Be.”

  • EyeoftheAxis

    Instead of goodbye they say “Be Blessed”.

    A condescending little dollop of religion to send you on your way,

    …like it or not.

    I want to say “ I am fucking blessed… you didn’t hear about my penis ? ”

  • jasonpaulhayes

    The part where they all go away forever and leave the planet, I speak that all the time … so maybe I do speak Christianese.

    • anti-crowley

      YES, let us construct camps in which we can send them all and rid the world of their evil influence.  We have some awesome examples in history in which we can do this very effectively.

      • WickedGoodUsername

        This is the second time in a few weeks I have seen a crusader state that people who dislike the idea of christians forcing their religion on everyone are equivalent to nazi death camps.  My reply then, as now is “Nice Godwin”.

        • anti-crowley

          Last time I checked, most of the laws in the United States have nothing to do with Christianity.  Perhaps the recent court rulings against people having Bible studies at their home in Southern California, or a grade schooler being punished for saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed are some prime examples of how we are repressing you.  You are paranoid, and your hatred of a religion along with it are exactly what was used to convince the German population to persecute the Jews.  The above statement about wanting the Christians to “go away forever and leave the planet” was very clear in it’s meaning, as it was intended.

          • Adam

            “Perhaps the recent court rulings against people having Bible studies at
            their home in Southern California, or a grade schooler being punished
            for saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed”

            Citations please.

          • Andrew
          • Adam

            Thank you.
            The first seems less a case of religious persecution than basic government bureaucracy run amok, and the second is just a controlling, asshole high-school teacher.
            Personally, I think the idea that Christians are some sort of persecuted minority in this country is ridiculous, for reasons that others (like WickedGoodUserName) have already pointed out. In other countries, however, Christian minority groups are definitely persecuted and discriminated against, I certainly won’t argue that, especially in places like Sudan and Pakistan.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Keep in mind that christians love to play the persecution card.  That’s ironic as they have been the ones most guilty of persecuting others.  Even the pilgrims who supposedly came to the new world to “escape religious persecution” were escaping persecution by other christians.  When they established their own society, they immediately began their own programs of persecuting others.   

            Christian/persecutors/hypocrites are all so intertwined, their meanings seem identical.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Pretty sure he was referring to the Rapture, buddy.

          • anti-crowley

            Pretty sure he doesn’t believe in the Rapture, buddy.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Well duh.  He was making a joke, guy.  He doesn’t actually believe in the rapture, but if a supernatural force were to abscond with all the (as he sees them) self-righteous christians into heaven, I’m sure he would be A-Okay with that.  

            I…can’t believe I had to explain that.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Pretty sure you don’t believe in truth, free speech, or rational thinking.  No, you are not my buddy.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Last time I checked, most of the laws in the United States have nothing to do with Christianity.

            How do you reconcile that with your other statement below?

            You mean like the fact that there is a strong Christian history in this country and there is still a large Christian population?

            Western morality is strongly based on Christian morality, and is the basis for several laws.  Back in the day, US laws were indeed based on biblical laws and the mainstream understanding of Christian morality.  I’m not sure what you mean you write “most of the laws in the United States etc.”.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Again, what a liar you are.  Perhaps you ignored the 60 minutes piece on the persecution of a young atheist school girl because she would not participate in an illegal school prayer after basketball games.  

            Perhaps you are ignorant of Sunday “blue laws”.  Maybe you didn’t know about the tax-free status od religions and how even the dues members pay are tax-deductable?  

            OK that’s a lot of ignorance, but, based on your own statements, it doesn’t sound like too much for someone that ignores anything that doesn’t agree with his own sick, twisted, world view.

          • Contentedkyrie

            Perhaps you may recall that tax deductions for charitable donations is based on social responsibility, which takes some of the weight off of welfare programs for community needs. Tax deductions for athiests are also fully available. Please note that a person can donate to libraries, colleges and hospitals and get full tax benefit (i.e. tax deductible). So, if a religious person wishes to donate to a religious organization, please note that the income of the person was taxed just like the income of the nonreligious person taking advantage of the same tax laws.

          • slayerwulfe

            And Jesus said let that which is without sin be used against her (a prostitute) Evidence that is obtained illegally can’t be used in a court of law. Why does it have sin attached to it. Don’t use the truth but reject it.Even crimes that require the death penalty in that century and this one.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        I am sure your camps would be filled with atheists, gays, non-whites, and anyone that did not totally conform to your personal idea of what everyone should at least profess to believe.  Luckily for you, it wouldn’t have to include hypocrites, fools, or liars.

  • http://twitter.com/jasonpaulhayes jasonpaulhayes

    The part where they all go away forever and leave the planet, I speak that all the time … so maybe I do speak Christianese.

  • Andrew

    You’re thinking of “Be Endowed.”

  • Andrew

    You’re thinking of “Be Endowed.”

  • Anonymous

    Christians are going to have one hell of a rampage when they realize ‘the Rapture’ is mentioned no where in the Bible.

  • Redacted

    Christians are going to have one hell of a rampage when they realize ‘the Rapture’ is mentioned no where in the Bible.

    • Anarchy Pony

      Well there is a vague mention of something about His followers meeting him in the air, but that’s about it…

      • anti-crowley

        Wanooski concludes his statement with such finality…but sadly is wrong.  However, he might have gotten away with it amongst others speaking outside of their knowledge level.

    • Andrew

      What makes you think they’re going to realize it?

    • BuzzCoastin

      This has never been an impediment for “Christians” before; there are plenty of things that “Christians” believe that are not part of the Bible. They are kept in their ignorance because most have never read the Bible they hold to be infallible.

      • anti-crowley

        As unexpected as this will seem, I agree with Buzz 100% on this statement.  Easter, Christmas, Sunday worship and almost everything Catholic are influenced by pagan sources.

        • WickedGoodUsername

          Ah, yes, time for some good old catholic bashing. How, um, christian.

          • anti-crowley

            Christmas on Winter solstice, pictures on stain glass windows of a white blond haired Jesus (Saturn), the belief that you are actually eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ,  celibacy and confession of sins to a priest (Babylonian mysticism), statues of Patron Saints in which you are to pray instead of to God, i would say they have strayed far from true Christianity and into whatever they could do to control governments.  Why is the Pope a State leader and observing member of the United Nations general assembly?  Not exactly what was talked about in the Gospels.  The clergy may claim the title Christian, but that means nothing.

    • anti-crowley

      I’d keep in your realm of knowledge.  Raptura is a Greek word, if you read a Greek Bible it is in there, it means “caught up” or “taken out of”.  I see a bunch of anti-Semitic, Christian bashers, caught up in the arrogance of assuming they are correct in their “obviously correct” world view.  But don’t let me interrupt your self fellatio!

      • Calypso_1

        wow….realms of knowledge indeed.  Raptura is LATIN which is from the Greek – Harpazo, which means to seize or capture, carry away by force without consent.  Yes it used in some new testament contexts to refer to being spirtualy ‘taken up’.  But look at these as well:  Matt 11:12 ….and the violent take it by seizing(Harpazo),  or Acts 23:10… commanded the soldiers to go down and take him by seizing (him) from among them.   

      • Redacted

        Problem, Christfag?

        • Andrew

          Homophobe!

        • anti-crowley

          Oops, didn’t realize I was talking to a 10 year old, I’m sorry son.  Well I guess the only fitting response to this is “I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say to me bounces off and sticks to you.”  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I’m sure your abilities of perception are faulty as your comprehension deficit seems huge.  Fortunately, most people on here recognize your failings.  It is a continual source of amusement so you must forgive those who ridicule you.  After all, you earned every bit of it.  You should be proud of that accomplishment as you seem to have little else to sooth your ego.

      • DeepCough

        The concept of the Rapture is not a part of Christian doctrine, because it was invented in the 19th century by an evangelist in the 19th century who took the King James Version of the Bible and separated it into dispensations, the last of which involved the “Rapture” of Jehovah’s believers into Heaven. This ain’t the first time a believer has cherry-picked scripture, and I assure you, it won’t be the last.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        When it comes to smug, condescending arrogance, no one can match christians.  If christians are frequently “bashed” maybe it is simply someone presenting facts that you don’t like.  They are still facts and, as always, I challenge you to prove they are wrong.

        That’s the unpleasant thing about facts, they don’t go away and they don’t change, no matter how much you dislike them and whine about them.

  • Anonymous

    Well there is a vague mention of something about His followers meeting him in the air, but that’s about it…

  • Andrew

    What makes you think they’re going to realize it?

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    If you know just a little bit of this shit, you can pull off some amazing social engineering hacks.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    If you know just a little bit of this shit, you can pull off some amazing social engineering hacks.

    • anti-crowley

      You mean like the fact that there is a strong Christian history in this country and there is still a large Christian population?  Gee, why would we see the language effected by it?  It only  happens in every culture known to us.

      • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

        No, I meant more like manipulating a bunch of right-wing whack jobs into open hostility with local law enforcement so they’d have bigger things to worry about than me.

        • anti-crowley

          Because that’s all Christians right?  It couldn’t have anything to do with bad policies and bankrupt government which seems to invade all areas of our lives could it?  Again, more “fact” conjuring to support your hatred.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Wow, have you got a chip on your shoulder.

            Think about what’s being said before you lash out.

            Christians in our society have power. If you know the “magic words” that power can be harnessed toward your own ends.

            That’s hardly and indictment of christians.

            But if I cared to, I think I could take the time to detail why and how christians are the lowest set of hypocritical, child-raping, self-serving, cowardly, scumbags on the planet.

            If I cared to.

          • anti-crowley

            Sounds more like you specifically talk of Catholic clergy, well I agree about that.  But if you include the rest of Christianity, you are simply an overgeneralizing hate monger.  So all the philanthropic work of Christians is being ignored?  So the Christians which are in the military, law enforcement ect are cowards.  How about Martin Luther King Jr?  Is he a hypocrite and coward?  No Zenc, I don’t think you could detail anything without highlighting the fact that you are ignorant.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            So you agree that a group of christians are ” the lowest set of hypocritical, child-raping, self-serving, cowardly, scumbags on the planet”.

            I’m glad we’re on the same page about that.

          • anti-crowley

            Claiming a title and actually being something are separate.  But nice attempt to work around with out addressing the fact that you generalized Christians, backing out of that statement and trying to rephrase are a clear sign of knowledge that you were logically fallacious. 

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Ah yes, the old “No True Scotsman” excuse.

            Bud, if you don’t think a very tight logical case against the morality of christians can be made, you need to go do a whole lot more research.

            The fact is, I don’t care enough about this issue to spend much time on it. Plus, I’d be hard pressed to produce a better condemnation of christians than has already been produced by others. It’s already been done so well by so many other people…

            I do however, enjoy trolling trolls.

            Try to up your game a little, huh?

          • anti-crowley

            Based on the other two aritcles I have seen you bashing Christians on Zenc, I think you care a whole awful lot about spending time doing it.  I bet I catch you doing it a lot in the future too.  When ever you decide to “make the case” I am waiting, lets compare it to the case I can make for atheism.  “Trolling the trolls”  like the few dozen trolls I found when I first looked at this forum, of which you were included?  

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Sorry Jack, I’m not an atheist. Make all the cases against it that you want. I don’t care.

            If you would care to take a close look at my original comment, I said nothing anti-christian. I made a comment about using words to accumulate power.

            Your own reaction is what prompted the anti-christian comment.

            It is entirely possible that you saw me running down “christians” in some other posts. Busting on idiots is part of what we do here. I particularly enjoy needling religious idiots.

            If you make a nice Venn diagram of “Idiots” and “christians” you’ll see a huge overlap. But it’s the people in the “Idiot” category that I’m having fun with. You can add jews and mohammedans and buddhists to our little diagram and anyone who falls into the “Idiot” category is likely to get hit at some point. I guess today, that was you.

            I wonder, do you honestly think that by coming here and being so belligerent you’re doing your fellow christians any favors? That you’re demonstrating how loving, tolerant, and wise they are?

             

          • anti-crowley

            Guess I was carrying over several other anti Christian posts from you.  If you think anyone doubts your hatred for Christians, you are delusional.  Apparently you think you have everyone fooled.  You take pride in “running down” Christians behind your internet safety buffer, I bet you feel real big doing it.  If you consider letting a bunch of degenerate internet nerds who talk tough that they are clowns, then yes I am accomplishing EXACTLY what I set out to do.  You continue to dodge the issue that there was nothing but hate here (you included) when I first posted, so much for your attempt at “innocence.”

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            I would recommend you take a look at Cialdini’s _Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion_.

            Whether you intend to or not, you’re creating a conflict with others and making it about christianity. Once they’re forced to defend themselves they’re pushed into a psychological cycle that is continually reinforcing and deepening their position, a position which YOU have forced to be anti-christian.

            It’s one of those not-so-obvious problems that occur in human interactions.

            As far as running down christians, yeah I do that. I also run down mohammedans, hindus, republicans, democrats, bankers, laywers, politicians, cops and whoever else is acting like an idiot.

            But don’t worry. I do the same thing in real life. Next time you’re in central Florida let me know. I’d be happy to have a shot or two of whiskey with you and then run you down (figuratively, of course) in real life. I can even bring along some of my christian friends if you want.

            Just like fights in the playground, we might even end up friends.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Zenc is not a troll, for what’s it’s worth.  His comments are typically on-topic and not needlessly inflammatory.  What criteria are you using for judging someone a troll?  

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Gee, I was kind of hoping for “succinct and frequently insightful”. But I suppose I’ll have to live with “typically on-topic and not needlessly inflammatory”…

          • Tuna Ghost

            Hey, on Disinfo that’s like being on the goddam Jedi council, except there’s no Sam Jackson playing a role he is in no way suited for.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            What philanthropic work?  No church has ever done anything for anyone unless they could tie it to proselytizing and recruiting.  

            Again, you label “hate” what are no more than observed facts.  But truth and fairness have never been christian values for you have they?  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Again, the only one to bring up hate is you.  That’s not surprising, christians have practiced hate, intolerance, and discrimination more than any other group in history.  Admittedly, the Islamic faith is trying hard to catch up, but they are outnumbered and haven’t as much experience.  They do seemed to have learned very well from the christian persecution they have had for so long, though.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        Then you are saying that makes it right?  That the majority has as much right to suppress the minority and the minority would have to suppress them if the circumstances would be reversed?

        Come to think of it, that’s probably exactly what you think.  

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    This has never been an impediment for “Christians” before; there are plenty of things that “Christians” believe that are not part of the Bible. They are kept in their ignorance because most have never read the Bible they hold to be infallible.

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    To me the most interesting fundamentalist belief is that the Bible is the infallible word of god. Yet nowhere in the Bible will you find the word Bible nor any definition for what books are to be considered the Bible.

  • BuzzCoastin

    To me the most interesting fundamentalist belief is that the Bible is the infallible word of god. Yet nowhere in the Bible will you find the word Bible nor any definition for what books are to be considered the Bible.

    • anti-crowley

      It’s called a canon.  You have not read one text or work of the first 3 centuries and apparently have not even the basics of how the canon came about, that doesn’t stop you from laughably making comments on this matter though.  There are many early Christian works as to what the early Church used as scriptural text.  Let’s not act like you really care however, you heard some baseless claim from a fellow Christian hater, then regurgitated it without checking your facts.  This speaks volumes about you.

      • BuzzCoastin

        A canon of scripture is man made and is nowhere defined in the Bible, nor is the Bible defined in the Bible.

        > There are many early Christian works as to what the early Church used as scriptural text.
        There are also many texts that were used by early Christians, like the Gospel of Thomas, that are left out of the man made canon called the Bible.

        If you can give me the chapter and verse where the Bible defines itself, then I will stand corrected.

        • anti-crowley

          Except the bogus claim of the Gospel of Thomas, that was a Gnostic text that was immediately rejected by the early Church.  Pick up a copy of Iraneus’s works on against heresies or Eusebius’s Ecclesiastical History.  Again, half truths being sold as solid fact.  Go purchase some credibility Buzz.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Oh c’mon, don’t even claim that Iraneus didn’t have motives aside from figuring out the true doctrine of God.  He had political moves to make as well, the formation of the early church was as much about politics as finding spiritual truths.

          • anti-crowley

            Given that his predecessor of the Church of Lyons (Pothinus) was killed by the Romans, as well as many of the Church leaders of his time.  Along with the fact that he was the generation immediately after the apostles give him credibility along the lines of what the apostles and Christ were teaching.  We can back that up with what Polycarp and Clement of Rome were teaching (Disciples of the Apostles.)  There is no reason to believe anything other than Irenaeus had motives for anything other than keeping the doctrine pure.  Politically we was very much in danger of being killed for what he wrote.  There is no evidence of “political” motives in any of the books he wrote. 

          • Tuna Ghost

            Of course there’s evidence.  If you’re as knowledgeable about the early church as you like to tell us, you’re well aware of the diversity of beliefs at the time.  Some christians didn’t believe in the literal resurrection of Christ, some didn’t believe Christ ever had a physical form, some didn’t believe he was the true son of god, some didn’t believe in apostolic succession, etc. etc. etc.  The reason the beliefs that survived did survive had more to do with their ability to keep an organization afloat than their truth value.  An organization that subscribed to apostolic succession that also believed that anyone could be saved so long as they believed in their hearts that Christ was raised on the third day and confessed with their mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord is going to last longer than one that believes that transmission of the knowledge of Christ can only come from a teacher to one chosen student, or that gnosis comes after a long period of meditation and training.  Read Elaine Pagels’s The Gnostic Gospels, which, aside from describing the gnostic gospels, also describes the early church with a considerable amount of depth.  She describes the politics of the time in no small amount of detail.  The battle between who would be labeled “heretic” and who would be labeled “orthodox” had almost nothing to do with truth value and everything to do with having the necessary numbers and political skullduggery.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            “half truths being sold as solid fact.”  That precisely defines religion and every post you have ever made.  When are you going to answer the challenge of providing proof that I am not right or that you are right?  

      • Tuna Ghost

        Well one has to ask, then, what makes the Nicean Council so special?  What makes them able to choose what is or is not the inspired word of god?  

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        WHat speaks volumes about you is that, despite being asked many times to either prove what you say is true or prove what I say is not.  But, being an intellectual and moral coward, you choose to ignore legitimate questions.  That explains why you are personally viewed with such contempt and disdain by rational people.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Thanks to an unfortunate encounter with an evangelical church when I was wandering from faith to faith and experimenting with various paths after refusing confirmation as Catholic (my parents were cool enough to let it slide and accept that I wasn’t cut out for concepts like Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility)…I learned the language of fundamentalism fairly well…but its nice to see a mainstream press mention the buzzwords that signal one extremist cult member to another. These are often slipped into political diatribes so that politicians like Perry (just one example) can get nods of approval and support from the worst fringes of fundamentalism…without going overboard like Bachmann and being clocked as a full-on whack-a-doodle batshit fucktard. Perhaps if more people recognize the danger signs when they hear key phrases…they will stop and consider carefully whether they should give their vote to anyone who participates in a mutilation of both the English language AND Biblical literacy.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Thanks to an unfortunate encounter with an evangelical church when I was wandering from faith to faith and experimenting with various paths after refusing confirmation as Catholic (my parents were cool enough to let it slide and accept that I wasn’t cut out for concepts like Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility)…I learned the language of fundamentalism fairly well…but its nice to see a mainstream press mention the buzzwords that signal one extremist cult member to another. These are often slipped into political diatribes so that politicians like Perry (just one example) can get nods of approval and support from the worst fringes of fundamentalism…without going overboard like Bachmann and being clocked as a full-on whack-a-doodle batshit fucktard. Perhaps if more people recognize the danger signs when they hear key phrases…they will stop and consider carefully whether they should give their vote to anyone who participates in a mutilation of both the English language AND Biblical literacy.

    • anti-crowley

      Are you trying to say that Perry is not being open about his Faith?  I see him on a continuing basis state in openly and in no uncertain terms that he is a Christian.  I see a bunch of immature anti-Semites conjuring up ridiculous reasons to justify their hate.  In a world of terrorism and government corruption and tyrannical world leaders, you have picked out Christians to be the target of your hate?  I love how you all degraded into hatred of the Jews when the entire video and article were about Christians.

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        You may be a sad troll, but even trolls deserve an answer now and then…so I’ll make it clear and concise:

        1) Perry is open about his ‘faith’…as a standard conservative Christian…but he also uses evangelical double speak to appeal to Christians even whackier than he is…because he knows the lingo and wants the votes. Way to twist my words there, train wreck…if thats your idea of a refutation…thank you for helping me look that much better just by being so tragic.

        2) In a world of all of the above problems…a lot of them have to do with religion and fauxreligious posturing that hides strictly materialistic intentions…so finding it useful to know and recognize the language of the lunatic fringe that is cheering on the problems and discouraging the solutions…is helpful. The article is about the weird need to build a separate language, which is mostly unique to the lowest class of fundies…and I specifically like the idea of that language being better understood by others so that they can recognize, properly disregard, or hopefully even enlighten the morons.

        3) I can’t speak for the rest of the board…but when the fuck did Jewish people or any mention of Semitic people even show up in my post? I have to assume since you mentioned Perry…you are answering the right post…which leaves us with the certainty that you’re an illiterate flaming jackass who can’t read and is just here to stir shit…and not very well at that.

        At this point…you’re making everyone you answer look brilliant compared to you. Don’t let me discourage you…we need more like you…because our best hopes for changing people’s minds and helping others see that Christianity is a waste of time, money and effort…are the whackjobs and failmongers who defend it. Thank you for your valuable contribution to that effort.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        How is the questioning of Rick Perry’s faith being anti-semite?  Or has Perry suddenly switched religions and I didn’t notice?

        You are undoubtably the most ignorant, illogical person I have seen on here.

  • anti-crowley

    I’d keep in your realm of knowledge.  Raptura is a Greek word, if you read a Greek Bible it is in there, it means “caught up” or “taken out of”.  I see a bunch of anti-Semitic, Christian bashers, caught up in the arrogance of assuming they are correct in their “obviously correct” world view.  But don’t let me interrupt your self fellatio!

  • anti-crowley

    What was it in Aramaic or Greek, perhaps you can tell us what it is in Hebrew?  The original language of those that wrote the New Testament was not Latin.  That was a later translation of the Septuagint. 

  • anti-crowley

    So what’s the major complaint amongst you?  Is it that Christians won’t shut up and stay out of the public eye, or that they are using lexicon unique to their beliefs in some hidden agenda?  I love how many hear on other posts have blamed Christians for being hate mongering, judgmental antagonists.   So what would you call this little party? 

  • anti-crowley

    Are you trying to say that Perry is not being open about his Faith?  I see him on a continuing basis state in openly and in no uncertain terms that he is a Christian.  I see a bunch of immature anti-Semites conjuring up ridiculous reasons to justify their hate.  In a world of terrorism and government corruption and tyrannical world leaders, you have picked out Christians to be the target of your hate?  I love how you all degraded into hatred of the Jews when the entire video and article were about Christians.

  • anti-crowley

    YES, let us construct camps in which we can send them all and rid the world of their evil influence.  We have some awesome examples in history in which we can do this very effectively.

  • anti-crowley

    That’s right EyeoftheAxis, don’t stoop to the Christian’s level of immaturity.  I good dick joke will drive your point home.

  • anti-crowley

    This is a politician trying to win the Christian vote.  These politicians use these terms (wrongly most of the time) not because the represent Christianity, but they recognize that there are many Christians in the country.  No different then when they mention minority groups or a certain demographic to win them over.  But I think you already knew that and are just looking for any possible reason to hate on Christians.  It will please you to know that Christians also believe that in the not to distant future, the world will begin killing and throwing them in prison simply for being Christian.  I’m sure those on this post will cheer when it happens.

  • anti-crowley

    It’s called a canon.  You have not read one text or work of the first 3 centuries and apparently have not even the basics of how the canon came about, that doesn’t stop you from laughably making comments on this matter though.  There are many early Christian works as to what the early Church used as scriptural text.  Let’s not act like you really care however, you heard some baseless claim from a fellow Christian hater, then regurgitated it without checking your facts.  This speaks volumes about you.

  • anti-crowley

    You mean like the fact that there is a strong Christian history in this country and there is still a large Christian population?  Gee, why would we see the language effected by it?  It only  happens in every culture known to us.

  • anti-crowley

    As unexpected as this will seem, I agree with Buzz 100% on this statement.  Easter, Christmas, Sunday worship and almost everything Catholic are influenced by pagan sources.

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    A canon of scripture is man made and is nowhere defined in the Bible, nor is the Bible defined in the Bible.

    > There are many early Christian works as to what the early Church used as scriptural text.
    There are also many texts that were used by early Christians, like the Gospel of Thomas, that are left out of the man made canon called the Bible.

    If you can give me the chapter and verse where the Bible defines itself, then I will stand corrected.

  • anti-crowley

    Wanooski concludes his statement with such finality…but sadly is wrong.  However, he might have gotten away with it amongst others speaking outside of their knowledge level.

  • anti-crowley

    You mean the anti-Semite babble?  That goes much farther back than a month or two.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    No, I meant more like manipulating a bunch of right-wing whack jobs into open hostility with local law enforcement so they’d have bigger things to worry about than me.

  • anti-crowley

    Because that’s all Christians right?  It couldn’t have anything to do with bad policies and bankrupt government which seems to invade all areas of our lives could it?  Again, more “fact” conjuring to support your hatred.

  • anti-crowley

    Except the bogus claim of the Gospel of Thomas, that was a Gnostic text that was immediately rejected by the early Church.  Pick up a copy of Iraneus’s works on against heresies or Eusebius’s Ecclesiastical History.  Again, half truths being sold as solid fact.  Go purchase some credibility Buzz.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Wow, have you got a chip on your shoulder.

    Think about what’s being said before you lash out.

    Christians in our society have power. If you know the “magic words” that power can be harnessed toward your own ends.

    That’s hardly and indictment of christians.

    But if I cared to, I think I could take the time to detail why and how christians are the lowest set of hypocritical, child-raping, self-serving, cowardly, scumbags on the planet.

    If I cared to.

  • Anonymous

    This is the second time in a few weeks I have seen a crusader state that people who dislike the idea of christians forcing their religion on everyone are equivalent to nazi death camps.  My reply then, as now is “Nice Godwin”.

  • Anonymous

    Ah, yes, time for some good old catholic bashing. How, um, christian.

  • anti-crowley

    Sounds more like you specifically talk of Catholic clergy, well I agree about that.  But if you include the rest of Christianity, you are simply an overgeneralizing hate monger.  So all the philanthropic work of Christians is being ignored?  So the Christians which are in the military, law enforcement ect are cowards.  How about Martin Luther King Jr?  Is he a hypocrite and coward?  No Zenc, I don’t think you could detail anything without highlighting the fact that you are ignorant.

  • anti-crowley

    Christmas on Winter solstice, pictures on stain glass windows of a white blond haired Jesus (Saturn), the belief that you are actually eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ,  celibacy and confession of sins to a priest (Babylonian mysticism), statues of Patron Saints in which you are to pray instead of to God, i would say they have strayed far from true Christianity and into whatever they could do to control governments.  Why is the Pope a State leader and observing member of the United Nations general assembly?  Not exactly what was talked about in the Gospels.  The clergy may claim the title Christian, but that means nothing.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    So you agree that a group of christians are ” the lowest set of hypocritical, child-raping, self-serving, cowardly, scumbags on the planet”.

    I’m glad we’re on the same page about that.

  • Anonymous

    So far you have implied that non-believers want to put all Christians in camps, (above) or stated “It will please you to know that Christians also believe that in the not to distant future, the world will begin killing and throwing them in prison simply for being Christian.  I’m sure those on this post will
    cheer when it happens.” (below), however, I haven’t seen anything like this from the posters you reply too. The worst I have seen is “Go away, leave us alone”

    It’s this kind of “Poor. Poor Persecuted Us” mentality and projection of what *YOU* want to do to non-believers (also lets not forget that *YOU* are the only one capable of deciding how to worship) that makes me dislike you folks so much.

    So called “Christians” make up some 75-80 percent of the population of the US, they dominate all branches for government, they continually try to interject their own version of “Sharia” (with great success) into the laws of a country that was founded on religious freedom (among other freedoms), and yet you (and your fellow “Christians”) are a downtrodden, persecuted class that people want to round up, put in camps and kill.

    You state “I love how many hear on other posts have blamed Christians for being hate mongering, judgmental antagonists.” This may be because it’s “Christians” that are calling for the exclusion of gays, atheists, and a number of other classes from some of the most basic public protections and basic human rights (indeed, even advocating death in some places), making pronouncements that various scientifically explainable events are the result of “God” hating various groups, and telling outright lies to support their beliefs.

    So, basically, the reason folks “hear” (Homonyms, how do the work?) feel  that “Christians for being hate mongering, judgmental antagonists” is because they act like hate mongering, judgmental antagonists

    Does that cross get heavy? I assure you it will get worse when you add the goalposts you will move next (since you have used “strawman” and “projection” so far). Anyway, I have had enough of you troll, this is the last you get from me.

  • anti-crowley

    Last time I checked, most of the laws in the United States have nothing to do with Christianity.  Perhaps the recent court rulings against people having Bible studies at their home in Southern California, or a grade schooler being punished for saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed are some prime examples of how we are repressing you.  You are paranoid, and your hatred of a religion along with it are exactly what was used to convince the German population to persecute the Jews.  The above statement about wanting the Christians to “go away forever and leave the planet” was very clear in it’s meaning, as it was intended.

  • anti-crowley

    Claiming a title and actually being something are separate.  But nice attempt to work around with out addressing the fact that you generalized Christians, backing out of that statement and trying to rephrase are a clear sign of knowledge that you were logically fallacious. 

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Ah yes, the old “No True Scotsman” excuse.

    Bud, if you don’t think a very tight logical case against the morality of christians can be made, you need to go do a whole lot more research.

    The fact is, I don’t care enough about this issue to spend much time on it. Plus, I’d be hard pressed to produce a better condemnation of christians than has already been produced by others. It’s already been done so well by so many other people…

    I do however, enjoy trolling trolls.

    Try to up your game a little, huh?

  • anti-crowley

    When I first looked at this post there were 26 posts all trolling against Christians.  26 comments full of hatred and name calling.  If you think that by coming in here, taking offense to those statements and responding is out of line, then you need to grow up.  Some of the comments started slandering Jews when they were not part of the topic!  If you get butt hurt when someone defends their beliefs, then it is very easy to see why you are so paranoid about Christians “controlling” your life.   You then compare Christianity to “Sharia law?”  You compare us to those who murder women if their hair or ankle should be exposed?  The same sharia law that I have fought a lost friends to oppose and free the truly oppressed?  Further you claim that Christians are trying to exclude atheists…how so?  You can pick out the crazies that protest at funerals as i am sure they are the ones you use to generalize.  As if there aren’t crazies in any sampling of society.  You have evolution taught in schools, legalized abortion and a litany of other rights protected by law that are anything but Christian.  I grew up in the public edu system, don’t remember there being a lot of “God” talk going on there, almost entirely they are the atheists who push legislation relating to religion.  Freedom of religion is the right to practice it, not your right to stop it.  I have the feeling that hypocrites like you will be heard from again, you are just as loud, insistent and hateful and any other stereotypes that you pretend to champion against.

  • anti-crowley

    When I first looked at this post there were 26 posts all trolling against Christians.  26 comments full of hatred and name calling.  If you think that by coming in here, taking offense to those statements and responding is out of line, then you need to grow up.  Some of the comments started slandering Jews when they were not part of the topic!  If you get butt hurt when someone defends their beliefs, then it is very easy to see why you are so paranoid about Christians “controlling” your life.   You then compare Christianity to “Sharia law?”  You compare us to those who murder women if their hair or ankle should be exposed?  The same sharia law that I have fought a lost friends to oppose and free the truly oppressed?  Further you claim that Christians are trying to exclude atheists…how so?  You can pick out the crazies that protest at funerals as i am sure they are the ones you use to generalize.  As if there aren’t crazies in any sampling of society.  You have evolution taught in schools, legalized abortion and a litany of other rights protected by law that are anything but Christian.  I grew up in the public edu system, don’t remember there being a lot of “God” talk going on there, almost entirely they are the atheists who push legislation relating to religion.  Freedom of religion is the right to practice it, not your right to stop it.  I have the feeling that hypocrites like you will be heard from again, you are just as loud, insistent and hateful and any other stereotypes that you pretend to champion against.

  • anti-crowley

    Based on the other two aritcles I have seen you bashing Christians on Zenc, I think you care a whole awful lot about spending time doing it.  I bet I catch you doing it a lot in the future too.  When ever you decide to “make the case” I am waiting, lets compare it to the case I can make for atheism.  “Trolling the trolls”  like the few dozen trolls I found when I first looked at this forum, of which you were included?  

  • anti-crowley

    BTW, if you had ever traveled the world you would see the continuous persecution and murder of Christians.  I have seen it and I hear the same garbage coming from them who do it, usually it is in Arabic, Pashtu, Uru, Mandarin or Russian.  But hey, your bubble is the edge of the world right?

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Sorry Jack, I’m not an atheist. Make all the cases against it that you want. I don’t care.

    If you would care to take a close look at my original comment, I said nothing anti-christian. I made a comment about using words to accumulate power.

    Your own reaction is what prompted the anti-christian comment.

    It is entirely possible that you saw me running down “christians” in some other posts. Busting on idiots is part of what we do here. I particularly enjoy needling religious idiots.

    If you make a nice Venn diagram of “Idiots” and “christians” you’ll see a huge overlap. But it’s the people in the “Idiot” category that I’m having fun with. You can add jews and mohammedans and buddhists to our little diagram and anyone who falls into the “Idiot” category is likely to get hit at some point. I guess today, that was you.

    I wonder, do you honestly think that by coming here and being so belligerent you’re doing your fellow christians any favors? That you’re demonstrating how loving, tolerant, and wise they are?

     

  • anti-crowley

    Guess I was carrying over several other anti Christian posts from you.  If you think anyone doubts your hatred for Christians, you are delusional.  Apparently you think you have everyone fooled.  You take pride in “running down” Christians behind your internet safety buffer, I bet you feel real big doing it.  If you consider letting a bunch of degenerate internet nerds who talk tough that they are clowns, then yes I am accomplishing EXACTLY what I set out to do.  You continue to dodge the issue that there was nothing but hate here (you included) when I first posted, so much for your attempt at “innocence.”

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    I would recommend you take a look at Cialdini’s _Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion_.

    Whether you intend to or not, you’re creating a conflict with others and making it about christianity. Once they’re forced to defend themselves they’re pushed into a psychological cycle that is continually reinforcing and deepening their position, a position which YOU have forced to be anti-christian.

    It’s one of those not-so-obvious problems that occur in human interactions.

    As far as running down christians, yeah I do that. I also run down mohammedans, hindus, republicans, democrats, bankers, laywers, politicians, cops and whoever else is acting like an idiot.

    But don’t worry. I do the same thing in real life. Next time you’re in central Florida let me know. I’d be happy to have a shot or two of whiskey with you and then run you down (figuratively, of course) in real life. I can even bring along some of my christian friends if you want.

    Just like fights in the playground, we might even end up friends.

  • Calypso

    one shoud not be so disturbed by a reference to latin as opposed to hebrew, aramaic…etc; considering at the time of christ’s supposed birth, judea was a roman province. Also – Lo, and behold the greek (which the new testament WAS written in) is ‘parthenos’, which has the same meaning as the latin.  and let us not forget those “holy virgins” in so many religious traditions who gave consummation to absolution seeking temple penitents!  Alas redemption by holy virgins – now we have stale crackers and suicide bombers with only a dreams of holy quim …humanity is a silly thing.

  • Calypso

    wow….realms of knowledge indeed.  Raptura is LATIN which is from the Greek – Harpazo, which means to seize or capture, carry away by force without consent.  Yes it used in some new testament contexts to refer to being spirtualy ‘taken up’.  But look at these as well:  Matt 11:12 ….and the violent take it by seizing(Harpazo),  or Acts 23:10… commanded the soldiers to go down and take him by seizing (him) from among them.   

  • Fire and Brimstone

    YOU’RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

  • Fire and Brimstone

    YOU’RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

  • Jim.

    Humanity cannot prove there is a God no matter what religion is used to articulate this being (or whatever it is) called God. We all can only speculate with our senses which are limited. Anything outside of this is nothing but politics. 

  • Jim.

    Humanity cannot prove there is a God no matter what religion is used to articulate this being (or whatever it is) called God. We all can only speculate with our senses which are limited. Anything outside of this is nothing but politics. 

  • Anonymous

    Um, no I am referring to this particular topic from CNN, which I recall hearing about some time ago. But I mean why would you have any sense of perspective what so ever? You seem to believe in some vast conspiracy to round up everyone that believes in your particular fantasy and put them to death. Which is fairly on the paranoid side. But hey whatever you need to cling to to give your life purpose. Indignant and apparent outrage that others may have grown tired of your fantasy’s dominance over aspects of life today and the appalling acts it has perpetrated throughout the last 700 years. Including the genocide of native peoples and destruction of their cultures as well as the legitimacy it lends to the rape and destruction of the natural world, the entrapment of nearly all humanity in the cage of civilization which is destroying our planetary life support systems. But go ahead and pretend your extensive knowledge of the history of your religion somehow means that it is the end all be all absolute truth.

  • Anonymous

    Problem, Christfag?

  • http://www.facebook.com/elpolloloco52 Josh Adkisson

    Anti-crowley, you need to shut the fuck up. I’m sure any wise religious teacher would tell you the same. It isn’t your job to respond to every single fucking post on here. You’re just making yourself out to be an attention whore.

  • Andrew

    Homophobe!

  • Andrew

    Homophobe!

  • Adam

    “Perhaps the recent court rulings against people having Bible studies at
    their home in Southern California, or a grade schooler being punished
    for saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed”

    Citations please.

  • Adam

    “Perhaps the recent court rulings against people having Bible studies at
    their home in Southern California, or a grade schooler being punished
    for saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed”

    Citations please.

  • Adam

    “Perhaps the recent court rulings against people having Bible studies at
    their home in Southern California, or a grade schooler being punished
    for saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed”

    Citations please.

  • Andrew
  • Andrew
  • Adam

    Thank you.
    The first seems less a case of religious persecution than basic government bureaucracy run amok, and the second is just a controlling, asshole high-school teacher.
    Personally, I think the idea that Christians are some sort of persecuted minority in this country is ridiculous, for reasons that others (like WickedGoodUserName) have already pointed out. In other countries, however, Christian minority groups are definitely persecuted and discriminated against, I certainly won’t argue that, especially in places like Sudan and Pakistan.

  • Anonymous

    So you reply with a neo-pagan “Blessed Be.”

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    You may be a sad troll, but even trolls deserve an answer now and then…so I’ll make it clear and concise:

    1) Perry is open about his ‘faith’…as a standard conservative Christian…but he also uses evangelical double speak to appeal to Christians even whackier than he is…because he knows the lingo and wants the votes. Way to twist my words there, train wreck…if thats your idea of a refutation…thank you for helping me look that much better just by being so tragic.

    2) In a world of all of the above problems…a lot of them have to do with religion and fauxreligious posturing that hides strictly materialistic intentions…so finding it useful to know and recognize the language of the lunatic fringe that is cheering on the problems and discouraging the solutions…is helpful. The article is about the weird need to build a separate language, which is mostly unique to the lowest class of fundies…and I specifically like the idea of that language being better understood by others so that they can recognize, properly disregard, or hopefully even enlighten the morons.

    3) I can’t speak for the rest of the board…but when the fuck did Jewish people or any mention of Semitic people even show up in my post? I have to assume since you mentioned Perry…you are answering the right post…which leaves us with the certainty that you’re an illiterate flaming jackass who can’t read and is just here to stir shit…and not very well at that.

    At this point…you’re making everyone you answer look brilliant compared to you. Don’t let me discourage you…we need more like you…because our best hopes for changing people’s minds and helping others see that Christianity is a waste of time, money and effort…are the whackjobs and failmongers who defend it. Thank you for your valuable contribution to that effort.

  • Anonymous

    You’re right WickedGoodUsername. anti-crowley did move the goalposts, from the US to the whole world.

  • DeepCough

    Y’know, before Jesus Christ, there was a couple of twins who were “immaculately conceived” by a Vestal Virgin who did not keep her vow of chastity as she should have, because failing to do so would mean death, and those twins were Romulus and Remus, the founders of Roma. See, there’s nothing original or special about your Jesus, you Gentilic fuck.

  • DeepCough

    The concept of the Rapture is not a part of Christian doctrine, because it was invented in the 19th century by an evangelist in the 19th century who took the King James Version of the Bible and separated it into dispensations, the last of which involved the “Rapture” of Jehovah’s believers into Heaven. This ain’t the first time a believer has cherry-picked scripture, and I assure you, it won’t be the last.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Well one has to ask, then, what makes the Nicean Council so special?  What makes them able to choose what is or is not the inspired word of god?  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Oh c’mon, don’t even claim that Iraneus didn’t have motives aside from figuring out the true doctrine of God.  He had political moves to make as well, the formation of the early church was as much about politics as finding spiritual truths.

  • Anonymous

    0/10

  • Tuna Ghost

    Pretty sure he was referring to the Rapture, buddy.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Some of the comments started slandering Jews when they were not part of the topic!

    What posts were slandering Jews???  You’ve mentioned this several times, where are you getting this?

  • Tuna Ghost

    Last time I checked, most of the laws in the United States have nothing to do with Christianity.

    How do you reconcile that with your other statement below?

    You mean like the fact that there is a strong Christian history in this country and there is still a large Christian population?

    Western morality is strongly based on Christian morality, and is the basis for several laws.  Back in the day, US laws were indeed based on biblical laws and the mainstream understanding of Christian morality.  I’m not sure what you mean you write “most of the laws in the United States etc.”.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Zenc is not a troll, for what’s it’s worth.  His comments are typically on-topic and not needlessly inflammatory.  What criteria are you using for judging someone a troll?  

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Gee, I was kind of hoping for “succinct and frequently insightful”. But I suppose I’ll have to live with “typically on-topic and not needlessly inflammatory”…

  • Tuna Ghost

    What anti-semite babble???  Seriously, where are you seeing anti-semitism?  The majority of posters here (regardless of their views on Israel) are against anti-semitism, except for the few who use “bankers” as synonyms for “jews”, where on earth are you seeing anti-semitism?  This is a real question.  Please tell me where you are seeing this.

  • anti-crowley

    Pretty sure he doesn’t believe in the Rapture, buddy.

  • anti-crowley

    Pretty sure he doesn’t believe in the Rapture, buddy.

  • anti-crowley

    Given that his predecessor of the Church of Lyons (Pothinus) was killed by the Romans, as well as many of the Church leaders of his time.  Along with the fact that he was the generation immediately after the apostles give him credibility along the lines of what the apostles and Christ were teaching.  We can back that up with what Polycarp and Clement of Rome were teaching (Disciples of the Apostles.)  There is no reason to believe anything other than Irenaeus had motives for anything other than keeping the doctrine pure.  Politically we was very much in danger of being killed for what he wrote.  There is no evidence of “political” motives in any of the books he wrote. 

  • Tuna Ghost

    Hey, on Disinfo that’s like being on the goddam Jedi council, except there’s no Sam Jackson playing a role he is in no way suited for.

  • anti-crowley

    Oops, didn’t realize I was talking to a 10 year old, I’m sorry son.  Well I guess the only fitting response to this is “I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say to me bounces off and sticks to you.”  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Well duh.  He was making a joke, guy.  He doesn’t actually believe in the rapture, but if a supernatural force were to abscond with all the (as he sees them) self-righteous christians into heaven, I’m sure he would be A-Okay with that.  

    I…can’t believe I had to explain that.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Of course there’s evidence.  If you’re as knowledgeable about the early church as you like to tell us, you’re well aware of the diversity of beliefs at the time.  Some christians didn’t believe in the literal resurrection of Christ, some didn’t believe Christ ever had a physical form, some didn’t believe he was the true son of god, some didn’t believe in apostolic succession, etc. etc. etc.  The reason the beliefs that survived did survive had more to do with their ability to keep an organization afloat than their truth value.  An organization that subscribed to apostolic succession that also believed that anyone could be saved so long as they believed in their hearts that Christ was raised on the third day and confessed with their mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord is going to last longer than one that believes that transmission of the knowledge of Christ can only come from a teacher to one chosen student, or that gnosis comes after a long period of meditation and training.  Read Elaine Pagels’s The Gnostic Gospels, which, aside from describing the gnostic gospels, also describes the early church with a considerable amount of depth.  She describes the politics of the time in no small amount of detail.  The battle between who would be labeled “heretic” and who would be labeled “orthodox” had almost nothing to do with truth value and everything to do with having the necessary numbers and political skullduggery.  

  • anti-crowley

    3933 parthénos – properly, a virgin; a woman who has never had sexual relations; a female (virgin), beyond puberty but not yet married; (figuratively) believers when they are pure (chaste), i.e. faithful to Christ their heavenly Bridegroom (2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:4).  In reference to Mary’s status as a virgin in the Greek is as follows.
    Matthew 1:23 Greek Study Bible
    ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἔξει καὶ τέξεται υἱὸν, καὶ καλέσουσιν τὸ ὅνομα αὐτοῦ Ἐμμανουηλ, ὅ ἐστιν μεθερμηνευόμενον μεθ’ ἡμῶν ὁ θεός.

    Alas, the ridiculous claim that the Greek term is not accoaciated with one who has not engaged in sexual intercourse can be put to rest.  The fact that people tried to attack this is funny.  Of all the things you could go in for, you pick this?  Have been involved in this “aplogetic” format for a few years now, but it is usually with those who have some education on the matter.  Calypso seems to have recently done some looking into it, but that was most likely on Google translate.

    Finding commonalities such as the fact that other systems have included virgins is a silly attempt at refutation.  It only goes to show that one’s virginity was considered pure and that seems to be that case across most cultures and beliefs.

     

  • anti-crowley

    See above, perfect example of lack of knowledge in the area of logical debate.  If I can find another country who has elected a black president before we did, does that mean Barrack Obama is not real?  Climb back into your ignorant hole.

  • anti-crowley

    I’m sorry Adkisson, I should let you all get on with your business.  Don’t let me interupt your Christian bash fest…oh wait I didn’t.  Really all I have done is give you a specific Christian to bash on.  Guess you don’t like having someone here who defends themselves.  The regular contributors to anything like this fit your definition of “attention whore.”  That’s why we all come on here, to voice our opinions.  I am responding to so many because as in most cases, I seem to be the only Christian posting on here.

  • DeepCough

    You wanna bring up logical progression, especially when you’re the one who’s been crying Anti-Semitism all through this thread? Your funeral–

    For starters, there is no proof in the Old Testament that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, Christian theologians just liked to pick and choose chapters and verse in the Old Testament scripture to support their point, like in Jeremiah 31:21 and Isaiah 7:14

    Furthermore, to address your assertion of Greek translation of the Septuagint, chances are that the scholars who wrote that text mistranslated a lot of words and one of them was the Hebraic word “almah,” which means “young woman who has hit puberty,” not “unsexed female” like the Greek word “parthenos” allegedly means.

    Now, I don’t know where you got the impression that this thread is all about “Christian bashing,” but by asserting that there is, you’ve done nothing but invite harsh invectives upon yourself by not being able to fucking read. Why don’t go back to your precious Bible and read this verse, bitch?

    “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
    shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:5

  • Calypso

    ah strong’s concordance, the weighty tome that empowers so many a ‘beliver’ into realms of scholary prowess.  you and your apologists, so erudite, how could I have missed it before.  perhaps you should have subtly woven into your straw man golden threads of hermenutic dross, so when the winnowing winds of wisdom flamed forth from your tongue I would have indeed known the clarity of spirit that dwells in you!  
    here is another one for you 1692: emeo – from which our our modern word emesis comes from.  I would rather clean the vomit from a drunken begger than step into any church in this world.  I dream of a day when humanity can close the book on the apocalyptic nightmare that is the foundation of modern day abrahamic religious fervour.  Both church and mosque have swallowed with rapturous greed the fear mongering cultic mind fuck that is being sold as ‘end-times prophecy’….but indoctrination to ‘faith-based’ intellectual reasoning systems that exclude scholarly evidence outside their predetermined world view occlude the neccesary perceptive ability to see the very human mechanisms involved in manipulating the masses.

  • justagirl

    i’ll never forget the christianese at the turn of the millenium.  there was so much double speak going on and all stroking themselves like they going somewhere in a happy trance.  when i think of the rapture, i think of a really sweet band and the bass player wants me, but, the drummer is the happiest i ever seen.

  • justagirl

    i’ll never forget the christianese at the turn of the millenium.  there was so much double speak going on and all stroking themselves like they going somewhere in a happy trance.  when i think of the rapture, i think of a really sweet band and the bass player wants me, but, the drummer is the happiest i ever seen.

  • justagirl

    i’ll never forget the christianese at the turn of the millenium.  there was so much double speak going on and all stroking themselves like they going somewhere in a happy trance.  when i think of the rapture, i think of a really sweet band and the bass player wants me, but, the drummer is the happiest i ever seen.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Yes, the babble has been translated (often badly) many times.  Do you suppose no errors in interpretation were ever made.  Do you think that no one ever “adjusted” what was written for political, personal, or other reasons?  (But “For a good cause”)

    Even a few verifiable historical events tossed in as an attempt a credibility doesn’t make anything else true.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Yes, the babble has been translated (often badly) many times.  Do you suppose no errors in interpretation were ever made.  Do you think that no one ever “adjusted” what was written for political, personal, or other reasons?  (But “For a good cause”)

    Even a few verifiable historical events tossed in as an attempt a credibility doesn’t make anything else true.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You give one example, in the image, I’ll provide a few more.  Christianity is a lie, has been lying even now, and attracts liars, as we see here.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Speaking of ignorance of logic, your post should be used as a perfect example.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    How is the questioning of Rick Perry’s faith being anti-semite?  Or has Perry suddenly switched religions and I didn’t notice?

    You are undoubtably the most ignorant, illogical person I have seen on here.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I am sure your camps would be filled with atheists, gays, non-whites, and anyone that did not totally conform to your personal idea of what everyone should at least profess to believe.  Luckily for you, it wouldn’t have to include hypocrites, fools, or liars.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Again, what a liar you are.  Perhaps you ignored the 60 minutes piece on the persecution of a young atheists school girl because she would not participate in an illegal school prayer after basketball games.  

    Perhaps you are ignorant of Sunday “blue laws”.  Maybe you didn’t know about the tax-free status od religions and how even the dues members pay are tax-deductable?  

    OK that’s a lot of ignorance, but, based on your own statements, it doesn’t sound like too much for someone that ignores anything that doesn’t agree with his own sick, twisted, world view.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Keep in mind that christians love to play the persecution card.  That’s ironic as they have been the ones most guilty of persecuting others.  Even the pilgrims who supposedly came to the new world to “escape religious persecution” were escaping persecution by other christians.  When they established their own society, they immediately began their own programs of persecuting others.   

    Christian/persecutors/hypocrites are all so intertwined, their meanings seem identical.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Pretty sure you don’t believe in truth, free speech, or rational thinking.  No, you are not my buddy.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    When it comes to smug, condescending arrogance, no one can match christians.  If christians are frequently “bashed” maybe it is simply someone presenting facts that you don’t like.  They are still facts and, as always, I challenge you to prove they are wrong.

    That’s the unpleasant thing about facts, they don’t go away and they don’t change, no matter how much you dislike them and whine about them.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I’m sure your abilities of perception are faulty as your comprehension deficit seems huge.  Fortunately, most people on here recognize your failings.  It is a continual source of amusement so you must forgive those who ridicule you.  After all, you earned every bit of it.  You should be proud of that accomplishment as you seem to have little else to sooth your ego.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    The major complaint I have is that all theists wish to enact their personal beliefs into laws for everyone.  You don;t have to shut up at all.  I have been told to “just shut up” many times by christians, but my thinking is different.

    If you can convince others of the truth of your beliefs by using verifiable facts, logic, and rational thinking, good on ya, mate.  Just don’t use public money to do it, proselytize in public schools, or pass your thinking into laws for everyone.  

    When I consider how many times I have asked you and many other theists for proof, logic, or rational thinking and have never received any of them, even once, it’s no surprise you have to resort to underhanded means to force your views on others.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I have traveled the world.  Besides seven US states, I have lived in The Netherlands, Quebec, and now Brazil.  In addition, I have traveled in Mexico, to Hong Kong, Southeast Asia, and many other places.  

    Where christians are persecuted, it is in totalitarian theocracies like Iran.  Ironically enough, a totalitarian  theocracy is exactly what many christians want to establish in the USA.  If that happens, the persecution of gays, atheists and believers in the “wrong” sect of christianity will make the muslims look like a model of tolerance and restraint.  Don’t think so?  Then reflect upon the witch burnings, the inquisition, family planning clinic bombings, and the entire era known as “the dark ages”.  

    Those are all facts.  Disprove them if you can.  Ignore them as we expect.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    What you choose to mislabel as hate and name-calling are no more than simple statements of observed facts.  If the facts make you so uncomfortable you are forced to lie about them, perhaps you would feel better in a totally christian site.  At least there, no one would question unsubstantiated statements, outright lies, and myths.  After all, those are the foundation of that religion, so they are expecting those things.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    He’s making it up from the delusional depths of his mind.  When you don’t have any facts to support your position, you must distract, delay, deny, and distort.  Sadly, he isn;t even very good at those things.  Should we give him an “E” for effort?

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Who said anything about hating christians?  Every time I have seen that mentioned, it comes from you.  Could it be that, deep down, you recognize the evil and folly of your beliefs?  If so, kindly refrain from projecting your innermost disgust with yourself onto others.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    WHat speaks volumes about you is that, despite being asked many times to either prove what you say is true or prove what I say is not.  But, being an intellectual and moral coward, you choose to ignore legitimate questions.  That explains why you are personally viewed with such contempt and disdain by rational people.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    “half truths being sold as solid fact.”  That precisely defines religion and every post you have ever made.  When are you going to answer the challenge of providing proof that I am not right or that you are right?  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Then you are saying that makes it right?  That the majority has as much right to suppress the minority and the minority would have to suppress them if the circumstances would be reversed?

    Come to think of it, that’s probably exactly what you think.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Again, the only one to bring up hate is you.  That’s not surprising, christians have practiced hate, intolerance, and discrimination more than any other group in history.  Admittedly, the Islamic faith is trying hard to catch up, but they are outnumbered and haven’t as much experience.  They do seemed to have learned very well from the christian persecution they have had for so long, though.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    What philanthropic work?  No church has ever done anything for anyone unless they could tie it to proselytizing and recruiting.  

    Again, you label “hate” what are no more than observed facts.  But truth and fairness have never been christian values for you have they?  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Defends himself?  How?  By continually making ridiculous statements, evading direct questions, and being an example of everything foolish and silly about christians?  

    I think I’ll send some of your posts to some christian friends for their opinion.  Would you like to hear what they have to say?  Probably not.  LMAO!

  • anti-crowley

    Much not be much going on in Brazil huh Jimmy?  Be nice now or we’ll take away your social security.

  • anti-crowley

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO….not to your friends, okay I’ll do whatever you like Mr. Jimmy.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I will be nice to you when you stop running away, changing the subject and actually answer a question.  How about you accept my offer of a free trip to Brazil?

    You couldn’t take a lollipop away from a 5 y/o.  If he said “Boo!” to you, you’d wet your pants and fall down whining, “Don’t persecute me any more!”  

    Be a decent human being for just once in your life and answer a question.  Where is your proof of anything you have ever said?  

    Or, Have you always been a liar with no personal ethics or courage?  Or did you learn it along with your religion?  The two seem to go together quite well.  That isn’t hate as you wish to label it, just an observation of the facts.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I will be nice to you when you stop running away, changing the subject and actually answer a question.  How about you accept my offer of a free trip to Brazil?

    You couldn’t take a lollipop away from a 5 y/o.  If he said “Boo!” to you, you’d wet your pants and fall down whining, “Don’t persecute me any more!”  

    Be a decent human being for just once in your life and answer a question.  Where is your proof of anything you have ever said?  

    Or, Have you always been a liar with no personal ethics or courage?  Or did you learn it along with your religion?  The two seem to go together quite well.  That isn’t hate as you wish to label it, just an observation of the facts.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Do you never get tired of demonstrating what an arrogant asshole you are?  Apparently not.  But then, maybe you are simply too stupid to do anything else?

    If you want to do something I say, you can improve the average IQ and moral decency of the human race.  First, go to a very high cliff….

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Do you never get tired of demonstrating what an arrogant asshole you are?  Apparently not.  But then, maybe you are simply too stupid to do anything else?

    If you want to do something I say, you can improve the average IQ and moral decency of the human race.  First, go to a very high cliff….

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know a single Christian that would be willing to talk to me.

  • slayerwulfe

    I don’t know a single Christian that would be willing to talk to me.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know a single Christian or bless,ed couple of them that would ever be willing to talk to me. 

  • slayerwulfe

    I don’t know a single Christian or bless,ed couple of them that would ever be willing to talk to me. 

  • Anonymous

    It’s ok to call it what it is from the language I think most are at least used to adult language. Puberty ? I have no idea. Bleeding virgins I understand. 

  • Anonymous

    And Jesus said let that which is without sin be used against her (a prostitute) Evidence that is obtained illegally can’t be used in a court of law. Why does it have sin attached to it. Don’t use the truth but reject it.Even crimes that require the death penalty in that century and this one.

  • Anonymous

    My last comment on this. What the hell does religion have to do with god I’ve never seen the two of them together. Christianity : They got kicked out and the first thing you see them doing is building altars and burning things. Is this maybe the start of religion? What religion was there before that?

  • slayerwulfe

    My last comment on this. What the hell does religion have to do with god I’ve never seen the two of them together. Christianity : They got kicked out and the first thing you see them doing is building altars and burning things. Is this maybe the start of religion? What religion was there before that?

  • N2itaway

    When I was involved with evangelicals I came to call this type of language that of “personal piety”, not for your benefit, but to show status in the hierarchy of holiness.  “I’ll pray for you” means “I am one holy MF” or “God spoke to me” means “Move to the back of the bus, looser.”  The passive-aggressive and narcissitic elements of orthodoxy literally made me sick, and now it is making our society sick as well.  Flee from these halls of oppression, ye sheep, for the knife is being sharpened as you kneel…

  • N2itaway

    When I was involved with evangelicals I came to call this type of language that of “personal piety”, not for your benefit, but to show status in the hierarchy of holiness.  “I’ll pray for you” means “I am one holy MF” or “God spoke to me” means “Move to the back of the bus, looser.”  The passive-aggressive and narcissitic elements of orthodoxy literally made me sick, and now it is making our society sick as well.  Flee from these halls of oppression, ye sheep, for the knife is being sharpened as you kneel…

  • Contentedkyrie

    Perhaps you may recall that tax deductions for charitable donations is based on social responsibility, which takes some of the weight off of welfare programs for community needs. Tax deductions for athiests are also fully available. Please note that a person can donate to libraries, colleges and hospitals and get full tax benefit (i.e. tax deductible). So, if a religious person wishes to donate to a religious organization, please note that the income of the person was taxed just like the income of the nonreligious person taking advantage of the same tax laws.

  • http://profiles.google.com/coachellaboy Scott Remington

    All religion is a CHOICE.  ALL of them.

  • DesertSun59

    All religion is a CHOICE.  ALL of them.

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