New Study Reveals Whites Feel More Discriminated Against Than Minorities

In my newspaper, the headline would have been “Whites Feel Racism Is Worse For Whites Than Minorities; Minorities Stare Open-Mouthed In Stunned Silence.” A new study on perceived racism coming from Harvard Business School and Tufts University has yielded surprising results.  Whites are reporting that they feel racism is “worse for white people than black people” in modern western society, despite statistics showing that social inequality between ethnicities is still rampant and still very much in the favor of white people.  So if the actual racism is still directed at minorities, why are whites suddenly feeling so discriminated against? (More on the Telegraph)

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  • E.B. Wolf

    Perhaps they feel that way because in many ways whites, specifically white males, are the only group that can be openly discriminated against whether it be encoded in law (affirmative action) or practiced across all forms of the mediascape. 

    One could also factor in the culture on college campuses across the country where great efforts are made to indoctrinate all students with the idea that evil white men are the source of pretty much all of humanity’s ills.

    • Anarchy Pony

      Yeah, because currently, they are.

      • E.B. Wolf

        Silly me. I forgot things like oppression, theft, slavery, rape, genocide, and Justin Bieber where unknown to humans before whitey invented them.

        OK. So white people have a lot to answer for in regards to Beiber; but dark skinned humans were quite adept at all the rest throughout human history without any schooling whatsoever from the White Devil; whose only unique contribution over the last few hundred years is just being better at them than everyone else… and getting those who had the least amount of participation to carry the bulk of the guilt over it.

        • Anarchy Pony

          Notice how I used the word currently. Currently.

          • E.B. Wolf

            Fair enough, but its still not accurate.

          • Anarchy Pony

            Well to be fair, it is not the white race as a whole, just a few ultra upper class white proto fascist capitalist imperialists, that do plenty to fuck over other white people.

          • E.B. Wolf

            Now we’re on common ground. 

            Add in the fact that those same “upper class white proto fascist capitalist imperialists” will not hesitate to ally themselves with non white proto fascist capitalist imperialists to further their ends and it looks a lot more like opportunism than racism to me.

          • Anarchy Pony

            I don’t think they’d consider it allying themselves, probably more like using.

          • E.B. Wolf

            The Bush family and the Saudis always look pretty chummy to me. Since they’re both using each other for mutual advantage, I’d say that qualifies as an alliance.

          • Tuna Ghost

            You mean the Saudis that fund terrorism?  Those Saudis?  Let’s not pretend that any alliance they have is not based entirely on mutual greed and lust for power, or that they wouldn’t be at each other’s throats if the situation were different.  

          • E.B. Wolf

            OK genius. If their alliance is not based on greed and power, what else is it based on? 
            http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alliance 

          • DeepCough

            “ALLIANCE, n. In international politics, the union of two
            thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other’s pockets
            that they cannot separately plunder a third.” ~The Devil’s Dictionary

          • Tuna Ghost

            …um, I think you may need to read what I wrote again.  Carefully.  You may notice you’ve come away with the exact opposite idea of what I’ve written.

          • Yomomma

            I think you need to loosen your sisters jeans so you can pull your head out of your ass.

          • Tuna Ghost

            If you think there is not still a system keeping whiteness as a virtue on top, that white people are not currently benefitting from the horrible things perpetrated against minorities in the past century, then you’re blind to a very important aspect of western society. 

          • E.B. Wolf

            Certainly a handful of white people are, but not most. Much of the benefits currently enjoyed by some whites at the expense of non-whites is due to the fact that power, wealth, and class privilege are largely inherited. 

            The vast majority of white people have not benefited one damn bit. Those that currently rule society, regardless of their skin color, would sell out a million white working class people in half a heartbeat if it benefited them and their darker skinned cronies across the globe. That hardly qualifies as keeping “whiteness as a virtue on top”, to me. 

          • Tuna Ghost

            The vast majority of white people have not benefited one damn bit. 

            Wrong.  A simple look at statistics comparing infant mortalitiy, length of prison sentences, wages, and a whole host of other things provides ample proof.  If you are white, you benefit from white privilege.  It is not something people do on purpose, the vast majority are completely unaware of it because it is completely invisible to them.  

            Those that currently rule society, regardless of their skin color, would sell out a million white working class people in half a heartbeat if it benefited them and their darker skinned cronies across the globe.

            Of course they would.  Something like that has no effect at all on the status quo.  That you think it is proof of anything confirms to me that you really don’t understand the way it works.   

          • chubby

             keep it up! they need to understand, there can be no change if you cannot even realize that what needs to be changed is in yourself…

          • DeepCough

            Quit playin’ the race card, whitey.

          • E.B. Wolf

            Hate the game not the player, darkie.

          • MadHierophant

            Fuck all humans, I fold. 

            HOW ABOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS

          • Tuna Ghost

            IT’S STILL WHITE VS BLACK, YOU IDIOT!

            Now let’s play Go instead.  

            trombone: wah wah waaaaaahhhhhhh

          • MadHierophant

            It was a reference to the movie Wargames, and it was said in response to the futility of playing a game where everyone loses. In this case, the race game. 

            But I can’t expect you to have seen it, what with that hipster defense manifesto you wrote. Too mainstream.

          • Tuna Ghost

            No, I just have a disease that keeps me from watching anything with a young Matthew Broderick.  It donate towards the research, but we’re still years away.  I may never get to watch Biloxi Blues.  

  • E.B. Wolf

    Perhaps they feel that way because in many ways whites, specifically white males, are the only group that can be openly discriminated against whether it by encoded in law (affirmative action) or practiced across all forms of the mediascape. 

    One could also factor in the culture on college campuses across the country where great efforts are made to indoctrinate all students with the idea that evil white men are the source of pretty much all of humanity’s ills.  

  • http://www.xenex.org/ xen

    I recently had a job interview where one of the interviewers came in and said, and I quote, “You’re white, you look like you weigh sixty pounds, and [the students] will think you are weak.”  At the school where I work, I was told that I will never be hired full time because I am white and it is a minority district, and wouldn’t I be happier working with white children.  I was not rehired at a job where the director of the program said in the middle of a staff meeting that he would see to it that the only people coming back would be those who physically resembled the predominantly minority student population.  So, may I posit that people feel both more emboldened to be openly discriminatory against Caucasian and some are managing to get over their “white guilt” enough to admit that they were discriminated against?  I do not feel that I am more discriminated against than some hypothetical person of African descent, but I *am* discriminated against and the response when I tell people this is to act as though I am a Klan member for even suggesting it is wrong.  If a Caucasian person entered a job interview and commented on an African applicant’s race as a reason not to hire them, there would very rightly be a lawsuit, correct?  

    • Tuna Ghost

      If a Caucasian person entered a job interview and commented on an African applicant’s race as a reason not to hire them, there would very rightly be a lawsuit, correct?

      Yes, and with good reason.  But that doesn’t mean the reverse is true or should be true.  Pretending there’s an even playing field, that there hasn’t a system of oppression in place for hundreds of years, is ignoring a significant part of reality.

      • Jumpingoffpoint

        Nice, classic two wrongs make a right. Congratulations on perpetuating the cycle of racism.

        • Tuna Ghost

          Who said anything about prejudice or discrimination being “right”?  Sort of jumped to a conclusion there prematurely, didn’t you?  Is this a sensitive topic for you?  

          The fact of the matter is, there is a system of oppression operating in the west.  When a white person discriminates, it is enabled by this system and also helps perpetuate it.  This is not true when a minority acts on prejudice.  If minorities acing on prejudice is “racism”, then we need a new word for what white people do because it is not the same.  The effects aren’t the same, the vulnerabilities aren’t the same, and the power dynamic isn’t the same.  Pretending it is only helps the systematic oppression of minorities.  

          • echar

            That looks a lot like rationalizing. It’s all about the color of currency these days and it has been for some time. From my perspective the only people who have a problem with the color of skin are the people who want to have a problem it, This delusion serves them in whatever ways, but ultimately it serves in keeping us divided. Isn’t it funny how currently the minority has the power to pull the strings, and here you are helping them out by perpetuating the division that allows them to keep hold of those strings. Go ahead and wear your pointy hat while denouncing all those that wear a rounded hat. I sir, refuse to wear a hat and hope you do too. 

          • Tuna Ghost

            From my perspective the only people who have a problem with the color of skin are the people who want to have a problem it,…

            This is a common perspective, and it is a perspective that comes from white privilege.  As I’ve said before, white people who say “I don’t see color, I just see humans” are essentially saying “I mean well, I really do, but I’m dumb as fuck”.  Not seeing color is a luxury.  White people are able to not notice they’re white.  Minorities are not.  They are constantly reminded, every day, that they are not white.  They are constantly reminded, every day, that they are a minority.  

          • Mysaodj

             
            The problem with your argument is, that you’re talking about blacks and whites as if they are two different species.
            1.        Modern anthropologists believe humans originated from Africa (therefore we all have African descent).
            2.       Many blacks in the U.S. have a white patrilineal line (usually from a slave owner or handler). 
            3.       Most of the Africans enslaved were due to the efforts of both their neighboring tribes and whites.
             
            Also more recently due to social changes, there are more interracial babies.  What rules do you give someone who is a mixture of white and black?
             
             
            Because of this, genetically we are, all brothers and sisters.  How can we set different rules for people based on how they look externally? 

          • Tuna Ghost

            What “rules” are you talking about?  No one has mentioned any “rules”, this is about the definitions of the words we are using.  This is about the present state of things, the status quo.  As for interracial children, why don’t you ask them about their experiences?  Or has that not occurred to you?  

          • Mysaodj

            These are the rules you mentioned I referenced them:

             “When a white person discriminates, it is enabled by this system and also helps perpetuate it.  This is not true when a minority acts on prejudice.  If minorities acing on prejudice is “racism”, then we need a new word for what white people do because it is not the same.  The effects aren’t the same, the vulnerabilities aren’t the same, and the power dynamic isn’t the same.  ”

            You are saying that different standards or rules should be applied to different races.  I am saying this is moot because we are all interracial at some point.  Regarding interracial people, I am asking you how your rules apply to them?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JR6QMHI5D3L6Z4JJBSAKO4KJBE brock

            As far as I can tell you haven’t said anything justifying or condoning reverse racism but people are still jumping your shit. Your argument seems pretty clear to me. Any instance of reverse racism is going to be trumped by white racist plus the institutionalized white-biased racism built into the system. That’s not to say that reverse racism is OK. On a case by case basis of overt racism it’s just as bad, and shouldn’t be tolerated. We just need to keep in mind the myriad of subtle ways people can be discriminated against systematically that a lot of us don’t have to worry about because of the color of our skin.

            It’s not that white people should feel like reverse racism doesn’t exist, but that they should use it to help find a way to put an end to racism rather than as some sort of justification for their own prejudices.

          • Tuna Ghost

            As much as I hate it, the term “reverse-racism” is enlightening in one regard.  It’s “reverse” racism because racism is apparently only supposed to go one way.  

            Like I said earlier, minorities acting on prejudice is not the same as white people acting on prejudice.  The effects aren’t the same, the power dynamic isn’t the same, the social systems empowering them aren’t equal.  One is oppression, one is name-calling.  

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        Here we go again. I still remember the last discussion we had about this. Probably should find it and link it to save time.

        • Tuna Ghost

          Hmmm what topic was that?  I vaguely recall the discussion, but not what article it was with.  Something about Glenn Beck maybe?  At any rate, I do recall helping you notice white privilege, which I consider a small success.  

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

      You need to file a race discrimination complaint and take it to court.

  • http://www.xenex.org/ xen

    I recently had a job interview where one of the interviewers came in and said, and I quote, “You’re white, you look like you weigh sixty pounds, and [the students] will think you are weak.”  At the school where I work, I was told that I will never be hired full time because I am white and it is a minority district, and wouldn’t I be happier working with white children.  I was not rehired at a job where the director of the program said in the middle of a staff meeting that he would see to it that the only people coming back would be those who physically resembled the predominantly minority student population.  So, may I posit that people feel both more emboldened to be openly discriminatory against Caucasian and some are managing to get over their “white guilt” enough to admit that they were discriminated against?  I do not feel that I am more discriminated against than some hypothetical person of African descent, but I *am* discriminated against and the response when I tell people this is to act as though I am a Klan member for even suggesting it is wrong.  If a Caucasian person entered a job interview and commented on an African applicant’s race as a reason not to hire them, there would very rightly be a lawsuit, correct?  

  • DeepCough

    Y’know what, what goes around, comes around, cracker.

    • Fortytwo

      and that’s not racist at all…Wow… 

      • DeepCough

        Nope, sure wasn’t racist for white men to legislate–pardon, “compromise”–that people of African descent were three-fifths of a person. And white people are only crying racism cause they ain’t favored anymore. Dumbass.

        • Cl4yton

          Hmm… as someone descended from Germans running from a psychopath, Irish who never managed to break the poverty line, Mountain people who didn’t see electricity till the middle of the 19th century, and Native Americans hiding from rich racist assholes, all of those who lovingly embrace racism can go fuck themselves. Racism is racism, regardless of the race/class/culture it is directed against. I refuse to feel guilty for the crimes of the rich few, or for the wealth that we never saw.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Feeling guilty is not the issue.  Personally I don’t give a shit whether or not you feel “guilty”.  I doubt anyone does (funny, though, how it’s always white people who start mentioning “guilt”).  The fact remains, however, that you benefit from a system of oppression, one that has been around for centuries.  Like I said earlier, if you call minorities acting on prejudice toward white people “racism” then we need a new word for what white people do, because it is not the same.  Pretending it is only helps perpetuate the system.  

          • Jin The Ninja

            if only to get my toe wet in this discussion, EXACTLY.

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            I’d vote for acts of racial prejudice by non-whites against whites to be referred to as racism…

            …and acts of racial prejudice by whites against non-whites to be upgraded to “Holy Shit, Motherfucking, Buttreamingly, Soulwrenchingly, Spectacularly Blatant Fucking Racist Fucking Racism”

            I figure it’ll take the Repugs at least a few weeks to figure out something that makes their pain and suffering sound greater than that…and it would take longer…except when inventing excuses to explain their non-stop perpetual martyrdom they actually show the tiny spark of imagination that so often escapes them.

          • DeepCough

            Allow me to play advocatus diaboli: white people are only crying about how persecuted they feel because a white man is not sitting in the Oval Office, and the idea that this half-black, half-white person is oppressing them is a part of the white man’s burden: the idea that Caucasians are superior to all non-white races because they’re more civilized since they feel they are John Calvin’s “Elect of God.” But now that other races are occupying higher seats of power in American society, they take that as a sign of “reverse racism,” which is tragically ironic term on account of the fact that it demonstrates what WASPs have always opposed, and that’s integration.

      • Tuna Ghost

        Nope.  Aside from the fact that we have no idea whether or not DeepCough is a minority or not, the fact that he called you “cracker” is not racist in and of itself.  There’s no entrenched system of oppression to give that word any power like there is for minority racial slurs.  Call it whatever you want, but don’t pretend for a minute that a minority calling a white person “cracker” is the same thing as a white person calling a black person “nigger”.  

        • TennesseeCyberian

          You obviously have never lived near a black neighborhood in Detroit, New Orleans, or Memphis if you think that there is no entrenched system of oppression to charge the word “cracker.”  The jungle politics of the hood are plenty entrenched, plenty contemptuous of whiteness, and I dare say much more dangerous than the capricious actions of the supposedly white police state.

          You know, Tuna Ghost, you, Mysophobe, and Deep Cough sure do come off like a couple of crackers.  I’d like to see how well your liberal brainwashing would serve you in the projects or even just a dense neighborhood teeming with the minorities with whom you claim to ally yourselves.

          What a couple of dupes.

          • DeepCough

            For the record, I’m white, so white that I have a great-granpappy in my family tree who was a Norwegian albino, and that’s so goddamned white, it makes Strom Thurmond look Mexican by comparison. So I reserve all right to call white people, or “Caucasians,” cracker, haystack, honky, WASP, Republican, Christian, and blue-eyed devil just as black people reserve the right to call each other “nigger.”

          • Mysophobe

            “The jungle politics of the hood…are much more dangerous than the capricious actions of the supposedly white police state.”

            And you call us dupes.

            The rest is kinda pointless, although your choice of words tells me a lot about you.
            You got rolled by a hooker in the French quarter, didn’t you? It’s okay to admit, it happens. That fake rolex can be easily replaced. Her laughing at your tiny dick, on the other hand, may not be so easily undone.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            You got me all wrong, Mysophobe.  But then, you seem to have a lot of things wrong, so I won’t start schooling you here.

          • Mysophobe

            Don’t bother, I get it. You got embarrassed or intimidated by a minority or two way back when. That fear and/or shame affected you deeply. But then you found a way to fight back and feel safe again by focusing on the negative aspects of “the other”. You look for examples and statistics all around you that reinforce your preconceived notions, and are repulsed and enraged by those who challenge you. Despite your supposed expertise on the subject you offer no solutions, only useless complaining. You delight in highlighting the shortcomings of minorities, hence your screen name mocking the story of a black man fighting his demons in a way you find comical.

            Gee, this whole “making assumptions about strangers thing” is fun. Thanks for introducing me to the concept.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Again, you don’t get it, least of all my screen name.  I have quite a fondness for Richard Pryor and his life story.  I feel a great kinship toward him.  You seem to be the one making assumptions about strangers.

            As for my feelings toward blacks and Hispanics, you are no more aquainted with my relationship to the Other than you are entitled to project your own guilty conscience upon me.  You feel safe getting down on whites because insulting whites is a safe way to flex a superiority complex in a liberal milieu.  Even whites can use Anglophobia as a way to feel superior to their own kind.  Nothing is safer or farther from “revolutionary” at this point.

            If you had any working knowledge of ethnic diversity, you would know that in places where people feel a strong sense of common identity (eg. black neighborhoods, Muslim countries, Mormon communities) there is an equally strong sense of the Other.  In those places, the Other is rarely welcome.  The adoption of the Other’s way of life is not only discouraged, it can provoke a violent rejection.  I’m fine with that.  I never make it a habit to go where I am not welcome.  Numerous wayward travels have taught me that. 

            It is very precious to encounter another culture–be it a black household or a dinner party in Greece–and receive a warm welcome.  Hospitality is not an entitlement, though, it is a privilege.  I only wish that more non-whites and their liberal cheerleaders understood that.

          • Tuna Ghost

            If you had any working knowledge of ethnic diversity, you would know that in places where people feel a strong sense of common identity (eg. black neighborhoods, Muslim countries, Mormon communities) there is an equally strong sense of the Other.  In those places, the Other is rarely welcome.  

            Huh, it’s almost as if they’ve had a bad experience with another ethnicity or something.  What’s that all about, I wonder…

            You feel safe getting down on whites because insulting whites is a safe way to flex a superiority complex in a liberal milieu.  Even whites can use Anglophobia as a way to feel superior to their own kind.

            Actually, white anti-racists can be much more damaging than that, and the damage is much more insidious.  White anti-racists can talk the talk, point out racism in action, point out their own racism, feel good about it, and then turn around do absolutely nothing.  If you took the time to talk to minorities about it, some of them will tell you that white anti-racists are worse than your average white person who is completely ignorant of all of it.  With the latter, at least you won’t hear them say “such and such is an action founded in racism, it’s abhorrent” before they do it.   

            I sincerely think you may enjoy these links, JoJo Dancer.  God knows why I’m giving them to you, but check them out.  It won’t take even a couple minutes.  

            To White Women Who Think They’re Different: Stop Fuckin’ Touching Me
            http://www.nathanielturner.com/towhitewomenwhothink.htm

            “White Anti-Racist” Is An Oxymoron
            http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm

          • Elmyr23

            you should read “guns germs and steal”  by jared diamond. It is a look at the last 40,000 years of history and why certain cultures came to power and why others stayed in the past. This is not a white phenomenon, but rather a common trait to all humans since the construction of civilization.

            you know what your white anti racist link is fucking stupid. preception is reality but reality is not perception.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Amen to that, man.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            I read your links.  This is what I think.

            To White Women Who Think They’re Different:  Stop Fuckin’ Touching Me
            http://www.nathanielturner.com/towhitewomenwhothink.htm

            So let me get this straight… The author, Kil Ja Kim, is an Asian woman who not only feels entitled to put herself in the same class of racial victimhood as American “blacks, reds, and browns,” she is also in a position to tell white women that they are racist by default and have no right to speak up on behalf of ethnic underclasses?

            So you can stop trying to think we alike.
            Stop thinking
            that just because we use the same bathroom in public spaces
            mean we in the same boat.

            I suppose she never heard of the Freedom Riders–or else doesn’t care–or she never read about white indentured servitude or whites leading the American labor movement–or else she doesn’t care about that, either.  If she thinks such events are trivial, all I can say is let her go back to Asia where she can fit into the dominant ethnic group and be applauded for her racist views against whites.  Then she should send me a postcard as soon as possible.

            “White Anti-Racist” is an Oxymoron
            http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm

            Kil Ja Kim says:

            There is a sick way in which white people want to emulate that which is
            considered “badass” about a certain existential position of Blackness…

            Sort of like this Asian woman who writes poetry in Ebonic slang?  Do I detect some shame projection here?  Who is she to speak up for anyone besides Koreans?  And if she speaks for Koreans, does that mean that Koreans are anti-white bigots?  As in:

            …whiteness is a structure of domination.  As such, there is nothing redeemable or reformed about whiteness.

            Then she goes on to say:
             
            Other racial groups, particularly Blacks and Native Americans, are considered inherently criminal no matter what they do, what their sexual identity is or what they wear.

            I don’t know any white person who believes other races to be as ubiquitously despicable as Kil Ja Kim apparently believes white people to be, and I know some redneck motherfuckers.  What would this freedom fighter do with us blue-eyed devils?

            They must be committed to either picking up arms for other [non-white] people (and only firing when the people tell them so), dying for other [non-white] people, or just getting out of the way.  In short, they must be willing to do what the [non-white] people most affected and marginalized by a situation tell them to do.

            So in order to atone for the centuries-old abuses of a wealthy minority of whites, all whites should become slaves.  I only wish that you were Kil Ja Kim, Tuna Ghost, because I would tell you to go fuck yourself.

            White people’s bodies are generally not the site of fear, repulsion, violent desire, or hatred.

            Unless, of course, you ask an Asian harpy.

          • Tuna Ghost

            I believe she’s half black on her biological father’s side, but I could be mistaken.  Kil Ja Kim’s is an extreme perspective, but I provided it show you that not all minorities are down with white anti-racists.  Some think anti-racism shouldn’t be offered to non-minorities since it gives them a chance to subvert the vocabulary, the actions, and the very ideas.  

            At any rate, your reaction to her stuff is fairly typical and unfortunately only strengthens her arguments (most of which you’ve misunderstood anyway, but whatever).  Simply put, white people don’t deserve a cookie for not being racist, as many are wont to assume.  

            Your reactions are a wonderful example of what happens when white supremacy is challenged, and why the fight for equality is so difficult.  So many white people don’t even see their own prejudices or the power structures that enable them, so instead of just listening they make the argument all about themselves.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Before I go, answer these questions, please, using specifics instead of general dismissal.

            How did my reaction strengthen her argument in any way?

            Which part did you want me to understand that you believe I did not understand?

            Not only did I listen, I poured over her amateur essay just for you, Tuna Ghost.  You have not responded to any of my concerns about Kil Ja Kim’s anti-white ethnocentric rant.  If you would like to now, I will be glad to hear what you have to say, though I’ll hold my response unless you have a question.

          • Mysophobe

            Are you really that surprised that your original assumption-ridden post elicited hostility?  Strange that you don’t recognize your own tactic when it’s used against you.  I must thank you, however, for cluing me in to the fact that different cultures have concepts similar to, and yet different, than others.  That had always escaped me.  That you see me as “insulting” white people tells me all i need to know.  Just call me a race traitor and get it over with.  We both know that’s where this is going.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            That you see me as “insulting” white people tells me all i need to know.

            Well, Mysophobe, let’s go through the list for a moment, shall we?  When Jumpingoffpoint talked about being attacked by blacks for what he believes to be racial motivation, you immediately dismissed him with sarcasm, saying:

            Do you understand the difference between institutionalized racism and you just being called a nasty name or looked at funny? I’m sorry you’ve been so terribly persecuted…

            Nasty names and funny looks?  What about being beaten, robbed, raped, or murdered?  You don’t know that there are numerous predatory blacks who attack whites out of resentment or racial hatred?  How naive.

            Aside from creating an admittedly funny scenario about a small-dicked white man getting rolled by a black hooker in the French Quarter–is that a bit of racial stereotyping on your part?–you also said to me:

            You got embarrassed or intimidated by a minority or two way back when…But then you found a way to fight back and feel safe again by focusing on the negative aspects of “the other”. You look for examples and statistics all around you that reinforce your preconceived notions, and are repulsed and enraged by those who challenge you.

            You know nothing about me, and yet create a mini-bio out of your own projections.  Talk about choice of words giving away the writer’s soul!  To Jumpingoffpoint, you said:

            Reverse discrimination? Grow the F up. White guilt? You bet. My people helped commit this atrocity.

            Well then, it sounds like you are the one who should have had the shit kicked out of you by a pack of pissed off thugs.  According to you, your Virginian blood is stained with past grievances.  The Polish Jew didn’t do anything but walk down the wrong street.  If you want to alleviate your ancestral guilt, I would recommend walking east on Orleans Ave. in NOLA until you find justice.

          • Mysophobe

            C’mon, now you’re going to pretend you weren’t looking for trouble from the start? Why would I engage your condescension with anything other than derision and ridicule? You argue from authority based on your supposed unique racial bonafides, but all I hear out of you is “well, minorities do it too!” Honestly, you’re just a spectator as far as I can tell. I can’t believe I’m doing this, but since you seem so preoccupied with credentials:
            I’ve spent the last 20 years in the building trades in a major diverse city working above, below, for and alongside all stripes of people. (Not sure what happened to that Virginia plantation money, but I never saw a dime of it). You’d be amazed at the things that come up among a racially diverse group working towards a common goal. I’ve been a debtor, creditor, mentor, protege, business partner, you name it. I’m happy to share everything I know and I’ve even helped several go into business on their own. I’ve gone to bat for them when they asked me to, surprised and disgusted by how quickly the appearance of a white face can smooth over a potential problem. I’ve seen first hand how many of our customers treat them and talk about them when they’re not around and regret not having the balls to tell them where they could shove their money. I’ve also been beaten and robbed by all stripes from over the years, and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t deserve it a couple times. I’ve had my truck and tools stolen in the middle of the night by two white (gasp!) meth heads. I totally get that my motives are impure but really, who gives a shit? I try to be pure of action and that’s all that matters to me and the people I work with. I can honestly say that I try my lily white best to judge others solely on the content of their character, and I’ve never taken advantage of anyone. So I must ask, what do you have to offer other than pointing out the obvious and calling other people naive in order to disguise your own insecurities?

          • TennesseeCyberian

            I was trained in my manual labor trade by a two white men, two Latinos, and a black man.  You can slap an Iron Rainbow merit badge on my sash now. 

            I get where you are coming from, but I believe that you overextend the bounds of politeness and rational sense.  When you dismissed Jumpingoffpoint’s anecdote about being attacked by blacks, it set me off.  Taking your derision alongside Tuna Ghost’s claims that whites do not deserve to speak out against racism toward other races or, God forbid, their own, I decided to use a nasty name.  Maybe I shouldn’t have called you “dupes.”

            My point still stands, though.  Whites have every right to look out for their self-interests inasmuch as they are perceived as or perceive themselves to be a group.  Everyone does.  You and Tuna Ghost insist that whites have no moral ground to stand on–if you read the links provided by Tuna Ghost you will even find the claim that whites are only useful to non-whites to the extent that they blindly serve them.  I disagree. 

            Many of us have done a lot for our own people, and a few have even done a lot for the Other.  You obviously feel like your association with and benefaction toward other races entitles you to a moral high ground.  If that is the case, then so does mine, but I don’t need to list my good deeds to claim the right to self-interest or self-preservation.  Jumpingoffpoint doesn’t need to list his family background or historical grievances to be pissed about getting beaten up for being white.  White people don’t have to trace their family trees to non-slave-owners to be indignant about so-called “reverse racism.”

            What do I have to offer?  My perspective: Be true to yourself and your own.  And as much as you can squeeze altruism from this hardscrabble existence, Love your neighbor as yourself.

          • Mysophobe

            With regards to my interactions with Jumpingoffpoint, I suggest you check the comment times before you jump to too many more conclusions. He, like you, was initially repulsed by my recounting of my family’s true story and my reaction to it. I knew that saying I felt guilty would bring people like you out of the woodwork, but I guess I’m just a glutton for punishment. Of course I realize the son is not responsible for the sins of the father, just wanted to see who would come on a “white people think they have it worse” thread to say “hey, that’s me!”

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Okay, let’s get one thing straight: Tuna Ghost, DeepCough, you, and I are all assholes.  So I’ll quit saying “you started it” if you will, deal?  Also, I’m starting a new thread before we run out of space.  Meet me there, if you dare.  I’ll be happy to read whatever you say carefully.

          • Mysophobe

            I am definitely an asshole, but I’ll just have to take you at your word that you are as well. Despite how I come across, this thread did cause me to challenge myself and question what motivates me with regards to race. Of course it bothers me that ANY human being is discriminated against based on superficialities, but I also understand that discrimination is far less damaging on an individual basis without the power and cultural structures to back it up. I stand by everything I said before you called me a dupe, apologies for my shenanigans after that. I’ll check out the new thread.

          • Tuna Ghost

            You obviously have never lived near a black neighborhood in Detroit,…

            I lived in Detroit before I moved to South Korea, guy.  Still, it’s pretty cool that you’re trying to be more “street” than me.    

            No, there is no entrenched system that gives any power to the word “cracker”.  I’m curious as to why you think there is.  Where do you see it?  How does it manifest itself?  Can you describe it in terms of process?  

            …and I dare say much more dangerous than the capricious actions of the supposedly white police state.

            Tell that to Sean Bell.  You’ll need to get a Ouija Board though because the police shot him fifty times (literally, fifty shots were fired at him) when he was unarmed.  But it’d probably be easier to just look at the statistics, which plainly reveal that your argument is ridiculous.  Once again, contemptuous of whiteness does not equal “racism”, especially given the history of Detroit.  

            I know it helps your narrative to see me as a white liberal who claim to be allies of a group of minorities that likely resent me, but the simple fact of the matter is that I’m not an ally of anyone.  I’m just aware of the dominant power groups and the way they operate.  Awareness is the biggest issue here, buddy, not guilt or anything like that.

            Ask yourself why this is such an uncomfortable topic for you.  I’m not asking you to tell me the answer, but honestly ask yourself that.  

          • TennesseeCyberian

            I’m quite comfortable talking about race with intelligent people.  Perhaps you assume more than is appropriate.

            Are you familiar with the Christian-Newsom case from Knoxville, TN?  If not, then Google it.  I see that scenario as being at least as insidious as the Sean Bell case.

            As to “cracker” not being racist, I’ll say this.  Blacks rule Harlem.  I’ve visited Harlem many times.  When I am with a black friend, Harlem opens itself up to me–to an extent, anyway.  When I was alone or with lighter hued individuals, I’ve occasionally been on the sour end of racial aggression. Why?  Because blacks rule those blocks of Harlem and strange white individuals are not welcome.  The Harlemites are pumped up on historical grievances, they have the physical power to enforce their racist resentments, and if you stumble into the wrong lair, they will fuck you up.  Don’t believe me?  Go there.

            New Orleans is another case in point, but much more dangerous.  Living near the black neighborhoods by the fairgrounds, you knew which neighborhoods to avoid, which streets to never cross after dark.  Why?  Because you would get fucking killed.  Blacks can get killed there, too, but white skin is a sure marker for prey.  The black gangsters hold the power in those territories, and they are beyond contemptuous of whites.

            Now, if a black winds up in a rich white neighborhood driving a shitty car, he’s more than likely going to get pulled over, searched, and fucked with.  He might go to jail.  In extreme circumstances, he might get shot.  I would wager that a black man is much better off in the hands of white police than a white woman would be in the ghetto. 

            The institutionalized racism you speak of is very real in certain regions, in corporate, government, or social settings dominated by whites.  But Atlanta, New Orleans, and Philadelphia are all basically run by blacks.  There is even a black president presiding at a federal level.  Most of their neighborhoods are black, and white minorities are not generally received with open arms.  Black power is not as strong as white power at the moment, but it is growing.  And that is great–mostly for blacks.

            I will read the links you provided.  Sorry I called you a dupe.

          • Tuna Ghost

            I’m quite comfortable talking about race with intelligent people.

            Mmm hmmmm.  As can be seen throughout the comments section.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Don’t be a patronizing bitch, please.  You continually hit me with ad hominem attacks, accusing me of being uncomfortable with the subject matter, continually saying that my statements reveal some underlying motive, and you avoid speaking directly to what I’m talking about.  I may not have been entirely graceful, but you have consistently ignored my attempts at civility.  You’ve done everything but call me a racist.

            I don’t doubt your intelligence, Tuna Ghost, but you have a long way to go in the discourse department.  Good luck, keep writing, and do try to read and comprehend before responding.  Until next time.

  • DeepCough

    Y’know what, what goes around, comes around, cracker.

  • Hadrian999

    isn’t it funny how you can rule the world and still have an inferiority complex.
    a great illustration of this is how Christians actually believe that they are being persecuted in the USA even though the majority are Christians and you pretty much have to pay lip service
    to Christianity to run for any political office in the USA. sure there is a backlash against traditional white privilege but the effects of that backlash are nothing when compared to real institutionalized racism and apartheid that have existed for racial and ethnic minorities.

    • TennesseeCyberian

      Hordes of Sub-Saharans murdering the wives and children of Afrikaners or the constant birage of mugging, robbing, and shooting that spills out of the ghetto into middle-class neighborhoods are not exactly trivial.  I’d like to see an accurate scholarly score card for racially motivated injustice, because at the moment the perceived “most racist race” is judged on the merit of dramatization and anecdotal evidence.

      For me, a white man, I’d say the biggest racist is the one who hates me because of my race.

      • Nuggett

        Oft overlooked point and it’s unfortunate.  You’re exactly right.

        I think racism is completely misunderstood.  Prejudice is the real culprit here.  Prejudice accounts for cultural, physical, and social differences.  It’s all inclusive.  Racism, as a shared concept, is limiting in its scope and only really insinuates a misinformed, active judgement against another based on skin color.

        How a group of people organize against a perceived threat, or, how they organize to seize an opportunity (slavery) is entirely dependent on the group’s state of mind concerning the other culture, not necessarily just the “color of their skin.”  When attempting to determine the root of prejudice, focusing on one property of a different culture such as skin color is ludicrous.  It’s ONE PROPERTY.  Albeit it is the most obvious, but it hardly explains the malcontent and warfare.  It even distracts from the issue.  It’s smell, total physical appearance, customs, shyness, a lack of shyness, your culture’s talents, how you eat, when you sleep, what God you believe in, and etc.  If one group shares features unique to their group and not to another, the other group lacks that experience and or understanding of the feature(s).  They may misinterpret it.  They do misinterpret it.  

        Anyways, arguing “white racists are the worst” is a moot point.  People are racists.  Lots of them.  All colors.  Because many whites organize their reactionary philosophy of fear and ignorance in a particular manner, the misconception is that their version of racism is the worst because of scale and other factors.  It is not indicative that they are “more racist”, it is only indicative of how their culture assembles and reacts accordingly.   

        There is no such thing as “reverse racism”.  Just racism.

      • Mysophobe

        Overlooking your own sensationalism and anecdotal evidence, your south African example doesn’t really tell the entire story. Europeans continuing to steal your resources en masse, take advantage of your people, and pit them against each other while selling them tools of destruction for profit tends to make an indigenous population less than hospitable to the perceived aggressor. I’m not excusing violence, but racial resentment and retribution does not occur in a vacuum. There’s probably a lesson in there for America somewhere…

  • Hadrian999

    isn’t it funny how you can rule the world and still have an inferiority complex.
    a great illustration of this is how Christians astually believe that they are being persecuted in the USA even though the majority are Christians and you pretty much have to pay lip service
    to Christianity to run for any political office in the USA. sure there is a backlash against traditional white privilege but the effects of that backlash are nothing when compared to real institutionalized racism and apartheid that have existed for racial and ethnic minorities.

  • Wanooski

    Yeah, because currently, they are.

  • E.B. Wolf

    Silly me. I forgot things like oppression, theft, slavery, rape, genocide, and Justin Bieber where unknown to humans before whitey invented them.

    OK. So white people have a lot to answer for in regards to Beiber; but dark skinned humans were quite adept at all the rest throughout human history without any schooling whatsoever from the White Devil; whose only unique contribution over the last few hundred years is just being better at them than everyone else.

  • Wanooski

    Notice how I used the word currently. Currently.

  • Wanooski

    Notice how I used the word currently. Currently.

  • Wanooski

    Notice how I used the word currently. Currently.

  • E.B. Wolf

    Fair enough, but its still not accurate.

  • Mysophobe

    I found out recently that I am a direct descendent of a Virginia slaveholder. Six generations later, and as far as I know I’m the first to break the cycle of overt racist speech and behavior. As a result, I’m very familiar with what kind of ugly talk goes on among certain white people when no minorities are around. These are the same whites who say blacks should just “get over it.” I know affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but when a country has committed endured, widespread institutionalized crimes against humanity, there aren’t a whole lot of good options and 50 years is not nearly enough time to “fix” it. Reverse discrimination? Grow the F up. White guilt? You bet. My people helped commit this atrocity. Black families suffered unspeakable harm so my family could prosper. I will spend the rest of my life trying to balance that scale.

    • Jumpingoffpoint

      White guilt is a crock. Why should I feel it as a Polish/Jew American? I never owned slaves, my people fought to free them long before this incident started… yet society says I’m white enough to get called names and not white enough to get the benefits. You don’t realize that other peoples are stuck in the middle of your racial justice project, and we get fucked from both ends. Just stop the cycle of hate and let it go… no guilt no blame… it wasn’t anybody’s fault who is alive now. My family isn’t flying to Europe to pester the Germans and Russians and that’s been far less that 300 years… As long as their is blame and guilt the innocent will suffer..let it go. … let it go..

      • Mysophobe

        Please explain how I am perpetuating the cycle of hate. The fact that you and your family didn’t materially participate means nothing. The country you call home endorsed and encouraged this behavior, and prospered immensely by economically, culturally and spiritually destroying an entire race of people. Nations must hold themselves accountable for their wrongs and attempt to correct them if they hope to have any legitimacy with the people. Too many seem to think that we should have just passed the Civil Rights Act and then said “you’re welcome, black people” and moved on like nothing ever happened. But the costs were generational and lasting. If black opportunity comes at the cost of white people paying a little more in taxes and feeling a little uncomfortable every now and then, I say that’s a bargain. All this whining from white privilege is pathetic and speaks to our character as a country. We still own slaves, by the way. They’re just not within our borders anymore. We’ve learned nothing.

        • E.B. Wolf

          You’re perpetuating it by insisting ALL white people share guilt for injustices committed by YOUR family even if their families never owned slaves, profited from the slave trade or slave labor, or even if their ancestors weren’t in america when it was happening.

          If you feel so guilty about your slave-owning ancestors, you carry that bag of fucking bricks. The only branch on my family tree with ties to this country during slavery stems from a Cherokee great-grandmother so don’t expect me to walk around with a perpetual sense of guilt for the things your ancestors did which neither I nor any member of my family participated in or profited from.

          • Mysophobe

            I never said all whites should feel guilty, I’m speaking to our nation’s guilt and requisite responsibility to it’s citizens. I had it rough coming up too for many reasons, but I’m honest enough with myself to admit that my light skin alone gave me many advantages that I otherwise would not have had. I also have had many other white strangers, in private, attempt to “commiserate” with me regarding their true feelings about minorities. The cycle of hate is being perpetuated, all right. Usually by the same folks who claim to be above it all. Just my observation.

          • Tuna Ghost

            You’re perpetuating it by insisting ALL white people share guilt for injustices committed by YOUR family even if their families never owned slaves, profited from the slave trade or slave labor, or even if their ancestors weren’t in america when it was happening.

            I don’t think he’s insisting all white people share the guilt.  But he, and I, are insisting that you recognize that white people are still benefitting, today, right now, from the horrible things done throughout the history of the US.  It’s not about who feels guilty.  If dude feels guilty, that’s his business.  If you don’t feel guilty, that’s fine and dandy.  Your hand never held the lash.  But you need to be aware that you are still benefitting from the US’s systemic racism.  Its unintentional, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is happening.  Ignoring it will only help keep it going.  Awareness is the answer here.

          • Elmyr23

            i’m not benifitting from our white rulers. Hell rockafellers great nephew happens to be locked up down the road from here. He isn’t close enough to the innner family to actually know the rich rockafellers. If your implying that a white man hires people that look/act more like him, i would agree. If you said a black man, latino, asian, middle eastern, european or african would do the same i would also agree. The fact that most the same old wealthy families happen to mostly be white in this country and still have all the power has less to due with racism and more to due with class.

            You have to understand that i see racism in history and yes it has put black americans at a disadvantage for the last 100+ years, but this is a global and historical problem that goes back to tribes. It is not always just race that makes these inequalities. The demographics of the country play into it.

            Forgive me but here are some quick links to try and show what i mean. these are for 2010

            http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/16/number-americans-poverty-jumps-m-working-age-poor-highest-level-s-1342948919/

            “Poverty rose among all race and ethnic groups, but stood at higher
            levels for blacks and Hispanics. The number of Hispanics in poverty
            increased from 23.2 percent to 25.3 percent; for blacks it increased
            from 24.7 percent to 25.8 percent. The number of whites in poverty rose
            from 8.6 percent to 9.4 percent.”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

            whites  223,553,265    72.4%  makes 21,014,006 in poverty
            blacks  38,929,319  
            12.6%   4,905,094 in poverty 

            so we have nearly 5 times as many white people living in poverty than black in this country set out with white advantage. Maybe my point is lost but we should really start focusing on the top 1%, most of us no matter the race are not getting a fair share of the tax breaks or income from thier labor.

          • Tuna Ghost

            i’m not benifitting from our white rulers. 

            Not from the rulers, but from the system that has been in place for centuries.  You get stopped less than minorities while driving, your credit rating will on average be higher, you’ll have an easier time buying a house in the neighborhood you want, an easier time getting loans from banks, etc. etc.  

        • Jumpingoffpoint

          “The fact that you and your family didn’t materially participate means nothing. ” Right, so fighting for individual freedoms and not having evil ancestry such as yours makes me just as guilty. My people fought for freedom for hundreds and hundreds of years for many others,  out motto is “for our freedom and yours.” Your argument is retarded. Your calling the only people who cared in the old complicit because they moved. Once again you gloss over the fact that I am only white when blacks want me to be, and not white enough when it comes people like you. 
          Your grandpa was a sociopathic slave raping bastard. sociopathy is genetic and your probably just as evil. I’m sure your using your out spoken “guilt” as a way to distract from your inner evil. Your as unracist as a homophobe is ungay. “He Doth Protest Too Much”

          • Mysophobe

            Nice. Congratulations on the peace and enlightenment you’ve obviously found. Cherish it.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Once again you gloss over the fact that I am only white when blacks want me to be, and not white enough when it comes people like you.

            Wow.  Buddy, you are never not white.  Your credit rating, your likelihood of being stopped by the police while driving, your housing opportunities, your job opportunities, these things know you’re white whether or not you recognize it.  

  • Mysophobe

    I found out recently that I am a direct descendent of a Virginia slaveholder. Six generations later, and as far as I know I’m the first to break the cycle of overt racist speech and behavior. As a result, I’m very familiar with what kind of ugly talk goes on among certain white people when no minorities are around. These are the same whites who say blacks should just “get over it.” I know affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but when a country has committed endured, widespread institutionalized crimes against humanity, there aren’t a whole lot of good options and 50 years is not nearly enough time to “fix” it. Reverse discrimination? Grow the F up. White guilt? You bet. My people helped commit this atrocity. Black families suffered unspeakable harm so my family could prosper. I will spend the rest of my life trying to balance that scale.

  • Mysophobe

    I found out recently that I am a direct descendent of a Virginia slaveholder. Six generations later, and as far as I know I’m the first to break the cycle of overt racist speech and behavior. As a result, I’m very familiar with what kind of ugly talk goes on among certain white people when no minorities are around. These are the same whites who say blacks should just “get over it.” I know affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but when a country has committed endured, widespread institutionalized crimes against humanity, there aren’t a whole lot of good options and 50 years is not nearly enough time to “fix” it. Reverse discrimination? Grow the F up. White guilt? You bet. My people helped commit this atrocity. Black families suffered unspeakable harm so my family could prosper. I will spend the rest of my life trying to balance that scale.

  • Wanooski

    Well to be fair, it is not the white race as a whole, just a few ultra upper class white proto fascist capitalist imperialists, that do plenty to fuck over other white people.

  • Wanooski

    Well to be fair, it is not the white race as a whole, just a few ultra upper class white proto fascist capitalist imperialists, that do plenty to fuck over other white people.

  • Guest

    Fuck you Jin the bitch

  • Guest

    Fuck you Jin the bitch

  • Guest

    Fuck you Jin the bitch

  • Tuna Ghost

    If a Caucasian person entered a job interview and commented on an African applicant’s race as a reason not to hire them, there would very rightly be a lawsuit, correct?

    Yes, and with good reason.  But that doesn’t mean the reverse is true or should be true.  Pretending there’s an even playing field, that there hasn’t a system of oppression in place for hundreds of years, is ignoring a significant part of reality.

  • Tuna Ghost

    If you think there is not still a system keeping whiteness as a virtue on top, that white people are not currently benefitting from the horrible things perpetrated against minorities in the past century, then you’re blind to a very important aspect of western society. 

  • DeepCough

    Quit playin’ the race card, whitey.

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    I’ve been insulted by blacks for being white and by other whites for not being white enough. 
    I’m a white Jew Pollock whose ancestors never owned slaves. 
    I have to say the only violent discrimination I suffered was by black men, the worst I endured when dating a black woman. 
    Black men don’t care that my Slavic ancestors are actually the source of the word slaves… Slavs=Slaves. My ancestors fought off others for their freedom. In the 1940s my ancestors came over and fought for the US in WW2. My ancestors had a hand in helping slaves find their freedom for hundreds of years…  Because I’m white I’ve been attacked on campus, called a cracker and attacked in town by the local black population.
    White people have sabotaged my job opportunities and made my heritage the butt of jokes but they never tried to kill me.
    Fuck white guilt. Fuck discrimination. Racism works both ways and I’m sick of the two wrongs makes a right doctrine. I’m getting fucked from both ends and my people did the right goddamn thing, If my people are ever in charge we won’t hate you all for something that happened 300 years ago, we are getting over stuff that happened 50 years ago already.

    • Mysophobe

      When you say you were “attacked in town by black people”, you mean you were literally beaten by a group of black people just for being white in the wrong neighborhood after dark? When you tried to press charges, did the black sheriff beat you some more just for fun? At your trial for trumped-up charges, did your black public defender supress evidence that could have proved your innocence, just because your white ass looked guilty to him? Did the all black jury of your “peers” take one look at your uppity white self and throw the book at you? Do you understand the difference between institutionalized racism and you just being called a nasty name or looked at funny? I’m sorry you’ve been so terribly persecuted, but you just need to stop blaming and perpetuating the cycle of hate and just let go…let go…

      • Jumpingoffpoint

        Yea…. you totally missed my point. Your guilt and self hatred will only make it worse.

        • Jumpingoffpoint

          Obviously you have no idea what its like to be a a Jew as well. They fact your are completely ignorant of any racial dynamic other than black and white show how polarized and ignorant you are. People like perpetuate the democrat/republican politics that enslave this country and avoid real solutions. If you find no truth in the fact that two wrongs don’t make and right, and you have to meet in the middle not bend over and take.. you will never find peace. 

          • Mysophobe

            What’s your point, that you had it worse? That the effort to present minorities with opportunity, here in the land of opportunity, hurts you somehow?

          • HeavyJunk

            Racism is not new for any one group, every group has their racist and bigoted elements it’s just a fact of being human.  I will say from my own personal experience, being a young white whose has lived in a variety of ethnic communities and situations that I felt that there were many times when I was discriminated against because I was white.  For some reason I received the reward for the perceived injustices of whites in the past.  And believe that if your the only white in a group of diverse minorities they have a habit of uniting and setting themselves against you.  One thing that I can be thankful for is that whites can’t be labeled the most racist…try living around Japanese or Koreans.

        • Tuna Ghost

          He understood your point quite well, actually.  His entire post was a refutation of your point.  Your reaction is a typical white person’s reaction when issues like the ones Mysophobe has discussed are raised.  “You’re not listening!  They called me names.  RACISM! Yes I’m just as qualified to talk about racism as you!  I’ve experienced racism too, our experiences are the same and deserve to be treated as such!”  

        • Andrew

          Could you explain exactly how one person’s guilt and self-hatred can negatively affect the relationships between other people?

      • Dan O’Caiside

        Your point only proves that diversity doesn’t work. If you want to end racism, end multiculturalism. It’s the only way.

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    I’ve been insulted by blacks for being white and by other whites for not being white enough. 
    I’m a white Jew Pollock whose ancestors never owned slaves. 
    I have to say the only violent discrimination I suffered was by black men, the worst I endured when dating a black woman. 
    Black men don’t care that my Slavic ancestors are actually the source of the word slaves… Slavs=Slaves. My ancestors fought off others for their freedom. In the 1940s my ancestors came over and fought for the US in WW2. My ancestors had a hand in helping slaves find their freedom for hundreds of years…  Because I’m white I’ve been attacked on campus, called a cracker and attacked in town by the local black population.
    White people have sabotaged my job opportunities and made my heritage the butt of jokes but they never tried to kill me.
    Fuck white guilt. Fuck discrimination. Racism works both ways and I’m sick of the two wrongs makes a right doctrine. I’m getting fucked from both ends and my people did the right goddamn thing, If my people are ever in charge we won’t hate you all for something that happened 300 years ago, we are getting over stuff that happened 50 years ago already.

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    Nice, classic two wrongs make a right. Congratulations on perpetuating the cycle of racism.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I’d be willing to bet that the demographics on the people that feel ‘persecuted’ racially despite being white…also feel persecuted for being Christian, male or conservative…and probably spend a lot of their time having that philosophy of persecution spoon fed to them by the likes of Rush and Hannity…

    …and its still horseshit. Maybe I am a yooper from a place so far North that there were no black people to enslave or even mock…so I have no particular apologies to make…mostly because Irish refugees were the shit of the earth and were derided with only slightly less attitude than other minorities…but that don’t change jack or shit when it comes to the here and now…

    …if you were born white, male and Christian in this country…you have entered the game with three aces already in your hand…money and class would be the fourth ace that deals an automatic win. With those cards…if you can’t at least make something of your life…its because you’re a reaming fucktard with no redeeming value. Any fuck that cries to me about how put upon and persecuted he is despite every social advantage you can put a name to…deserves the spit in the eye he gets.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I’d be willing to bet that the demographics on the people that feel ‘persecuted’ racially despite being white…also feel persecuted for being Christian, male or conservative…and probably spend a lot of their time having that philosophy of persecution spoon fed to them by the likes of Rush and Hannity…

    …and its still horseshit. Maybe I am a yooper from a place so far North that there were no black people to enslave or even mock…so I have no particular apologies to make…mostly because Irish refugees were the shit of the earth and were derided with only slightly less attitude than other minorities…but that don’t change jack or shit when it comes to the here and now…

    …if you were born white, male and Christian in this country…you have entered the game with three aces already in your hand…money and class would be the fourth ace that deals an automatic win. With those cards…if you can’t at least make something of your life…its because you’re a reaming fucktard with no redeeming value. Any fuck that cries to me about how put upon and persecuted he is despite every social advantage you can put a name to…deserves the spit in the eye he gets.

  • Guest

    Idiot.

  • E.B. Wolf

    Certainly a handful of white people are, but not most. Much of the benefits currently enjoyed by some whites at the expense of non-whites is due to the fact that power, wealth, and class privilege are largely inherited. 

    The vast majority of white people have not benefited one damn bit. Those that currently rule society, regardless of their skin color, would sell out a million white working class people in half a heartbeat if it benefited them and their darker skinned cronies across the globe. That hardly qualifies as keeping “whiteness as a virtue on top”, to me. 

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    White guilt is a crock. Why should I feel it as a Polish/Jew American? I never owned slaves, my people fought to free them long before this incident started… yet society says I’m white enough to get called names and not white enough to get the benefits. You don’t realize that other peoples are stuck in the middle of your racial justice project, and we get fucked from both ends. Just stop the cycle of hate and let it go… no guilt no blame… it wasn’t anybody’s fault who is alive now. My family isn’t flying to Europe to pester the Germans and Russians and that’s been far less that 300 years… As long as their is blame and guilt the innocent will suffer..let it go. … let it go..

  • E.B. Wolf

    Now we’re on common ground. 

    Add in the fact that those same “upper class white proto fascist capitol imperialists” will not hesitate to ally themselves with non white proto fascist capitol imperialists to further their ends and it looks a lot more like opportunism than racism to me.

  • E.B. Wolf

    Hate the game not the player, darkie.

  • Fortytwo

    and that’s not racist at all…Wow… 

  • Wanooski

    I don’t think they’d consider it allying themselves, probably more like using.

  • Mysophobe

    Please explain how I am perpetuating the cycle of hate. The fact that you and your family didn’t materially participate means nothing. The country you call home endorsed and encouraged this behavior, and prospered immensely by economically, culturally and spiritually destroying an entire race of people. Nations must hold themselves accountable for their wrongs and attempt to correct them if they hope to have any legitimacy with the people. Too many seem to think that we should have just passed the Civil Rights Act and then said “you’re welcome, black people” and moved on like nothing ever happened. But the costs were generational and lasting. If black opportunity comes at the cost of white people paying a little more in taxes and feeling a little uncomfortable every now and then, I say that’s a bargain. All this whining from white privilege is pathetic and speaks to our character as a country. We still own slaves, by the way. They’re just not within our borders anymore. We’ve learned nothing.

  • Anonymous

    Fuck all humans, I fold. 

    HOW ABOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS

  • E.B. Wolf

    The Bush family and the Saudis always look pretty chummy to me. Since they’re both using each other for mutual advantage, I’d say that qualifies as an alliance.

  • Mysophobe

    When you say you were “attacked in town by black people”, you mean you were literally beaten by a group of black people just for being white in the wrong neighborhood after dark? When you tried to press charges, did the black sheriff beat you some more just for fun? At your trial for trumped-up charges, did your black public defender supress evidence that could have proved your innocence, just because your white ass looked guilty to him? Did the all black jury of your “peers” take one look at your uppity white self and throw the book at you? Do you understand the difference between institutionalized racism and you just being called a nasty name or looked at funny? I’m sorry you’ve been so terribly persecuted, but you just need to stop blaming and perpetuating the cycle of hate and just let go…let go…

  • E.B. Wolf

    You’re perpetuating it by insisting ALL white people share guilt for injustices committed by YOUR family even if their families never owned slaves, profited from the slave trade or slave labor, or even if their ancestors weren’t in america when it was happening.

    If you feel so guilty about your slave-owning ancestors, you carry that bag of fucking bricks. The only branch on my family tree with ties to this country during slavery leads to a Cherokee great-grandmother so don’t expect me to walk around with a perpetual sense of guilt for the things your ancestors did which I’ve never participated in or profited from.

  • MadHierophant

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM

    Pretty much this. 

    But seriously, everyone can get discriminated against, and some of it is institutionalized, intentionally or not. It’s  shitty all around, but just because white people CAN be discriminated against doesn’t mean some ethnic groups aren’t *more* predisposed to be discriminated against in this country. Not being part of the top 1% doesn’t mean White Privilege isn’t a thing. It also doesn’t mean that white people should be allowed to be discriminated against based on race as if they were all the descendants of slave owners. 

    Everyone is capable of racism and being the victim of it depending on circumstances. And it’s pretty much gonna stay that way until two things happen:

    1.) people stop making preconceived notions of people based on being (fill in the blank), and using that as justification for shitty behavior towards (fill in the blank)

    2.) *everyone* decides to stop playing victim and get over themselves, regardless of the past of their ethnicity. 

    …Goddamn humans.

    • Tuna Ghost

      2.) *everyone* decides to stop playing victim and get over themselves, regardless of the past of their ethnicity. 

      …Goddamn humans.

      …Do you have any idea how condescending and offensive it is, hearing this from white people?  Pay attention: saying “I don’t see color, I see human” or “I stopped being white and joined the human race” is something only white people can do.  It is a luxury to forget that you’re x/y/z.  Minorities are not able to do that.  Minorities are reminded every day what they are, and what they are not.  You can’t “get over it” when its shoved in your face every day that you’re not white, that you’re different, that you’re a minority.  Saying “get over it” is so fucking ignorant and condescending it makes me shit my pants.  I just shat my pants, seeing you write that.  

      Shit. 

      In my pants.  

      • MadHierophant

        *hands you a towel.*

        A.) I’m black. Yes, me. I didn’t say that I don’t see color. I’ve been stopped on the street by cops for “fitting the description of a suspect” of a crime I wasn’t anywhere near just to fill a quota. Other black kids and I had  expectations lowered for us in school, and I knew it when me and some others got special awards for getting good grades…and being black. I want to get into the animation industry, where my kind are few and far between, for whatever reason.  So it’s not like I’ve lived some sheltered life where I never encountered race or racism. I’m black and I know it, and I’m never gonna forget it. Thanks for the sanctimonious  speech where you assume I’m white though, that was hilarious. Especially given my avatar.

        B.) Ignoring race is retarded. It’s there, it’s part of what makes us who we are as individuals on a physical level, if not cultural. Minorities don’t have the luxury of being able to ignore race, but soon NO ONE will have the luxury of being able to use race as an excuse for arbitrary social dividers or justification for victim mentality. And you can’t say that society alone accounts for the reason minorities are held down, the “crabs -in-a-barrel” syndrome is a real thing that I’ve seen in my lifetime. Sure, part of it is due to racism, but how much of it is self-fulfilling prophecy? More than you’d probably want to admit. Pretentious white people trying to be aloof about race aren’t the only ones with a damaging world view. That’s why I called for EVERYONE to let go of preconceived notions, because we’re going to have other things to worry about in due time.

        Like, say, The collapse of the ecosphere, world economy and social order.

        My reasons for saying we should “get over” race stem form pragmatism. If nothing else, people need to let go of past prejudices because soon all we’re gonna have is each other. The fewer stupid reasons we have to fight each other, or worse, NOT help each other, the better.

        • TennesseeCyberian

          I respect you more than I ever could the race-crusading (and presumably Asian) Tuna Ghost, the self-described “race traitor” Mysophobe, or the generally pugnacious DeepCough.  Racism is as basic as “crabs in a barrel” as you say, and too primal to overcome by simply ignoring it.  But whites and blacks and browns and yellows can get along and even become best friends on the periphery of that human tendency toward ethnic identity.  For that I am thankful.

          There was a time when I thought that races as groups could have as deep of a relationship with the Other as I have had on an individual level.  I am not so hopeful these days.  But I can’t lament overlong the discord between tribes so long as my personal friendships hold fast.

          When confronted with unfriendly whites (or Latinos, or Asians, or Muslims, or Republicans), do you find yourself reverting to learned stereotypes?  Do these simple-minded, almost instinctive notions–or prejudices–occasionally serve you well?  Mine do.  I feel like all people have a right to their prejudices, while at the same time I believe that keeping a sharp eye out for exceptional individuals is the only way to experience the full spectrum of life.

          As for the collapse of the ecoshpere, the world economy, and social order, I just hope that my bills are all paid up come Armageddon!

          • MadHierophant

            When confronted by unfriendly people of *any* ethnicity, black included, I just assume that individual is a douchebag instead of concluding that it stems from some racial attribute. Assuming the worst of people based on stereotypes is a quick way to needlessly make enemies.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            I don’t necessarily mean racial stereotypes, but that’s included.  It is oftentimes said that stereotypes exist for a reason, and I agree.  Most stereotypes aren’t negative:  Christians don’t swear, blacks are good dancers, Latinos are very tight with their families.  They tend to be true, with plenty of exeptions.

            The negative stereotypes also have many exceptions, but also tend to be true:  Christians are generally unable to debate existential questions beyon their own dogma, blacks wearing gansta attire in a bad neighborhood will probably fuck you up, and many Latino immigrants to America have no respect for the host culture from which they benefit.  That’s what I mean.

            Stereotypes are simple-minded, so I see them for their limitation.  They are also shallow, so any chance I have to engage someone on a deeper level, I generally find such stereotypes to be irrelavant, but nevertheless true.

            Myself, I’m somewhere between SWPL and Larry the Cable Guy.  It won’t offend me if you make fun of my cutoff tshirt, man.  Or my uneven sunburn.

          • Tuna Ghost

            I respect you more than I ever could the race-crusading (and presumably Asian) Tuna Ghost

            Ignoring statements to the contrary to strengthen your narrative that has yourself as the persecuted?  How…surprising.  Your assumptions speak volumes about your ideas of race, btw.  

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/ZYCERIN Zycerin

          Hear hear!!! And before any fish in this massive sea of comments assumes I am part of the local KKK affiliates, let me enlighten the issue that I am not “white” myself.

          However not black, I am a genuine bottle of Heinz 57 American style, which means I am not accepted by any branch of my own heritage fully. I am just a mutt that has sat on the sidelines of all the crass and ignorant racism that gets thrown from all sides in this place we call the “south”, cheering that we should all just get the fuck over it. Occasionally I get to engage in my own anti racist rants with others around me, but truly unless you live in the south some things will not make sense to you. Such as the equality of racism… it literally comes from ALL sides here. And when you have no “brothers” of any kind to side with you, you feel quite feeble taking a stand against it all.

          Just wanted to share my piece ’cause I do agree with ya MadHierophant!!

  • Anonymous

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM

    Pretty much this. 

    But seriously, everyone can get discriminated against, and some of it is institutionalized, intentionally or not. It’s  shitty all around, but just because white people CAN be discriminated against doesn’t mean some ethnic groups aren’t *more* predisposed to be discriminated against in this country. Not being part of the top 1% doesn’t mean White Privilege isn’t a thing. It also doesn’t mean that white people should be allowed to be discriminated against based on race as if they were all the descendants of slave owners. 

    Everyone is capable of racism and being the victim of it depending on circumstances. And it’s pretty much gonna stay that way until two things happen:

    1.) people stop making preconceived notions of people based on being (fill in the blank), and using that as justification for shitty behavior towards (fill in the blank)

    2.) *everyone* decides to stop playing victim and get over themselves, regardless of the past of their ethnicity. 

    …Goddamn humans.

  • Anonymous

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM

    Pretty much this. 

    But seriously, everyone can get discriminated against, and some of it is institutionalized, intentionally or not. It’s  shitty all around, but just because white people CAN be discriminated against doesn’t mean some ethnic groups aren’t *more* predisposed to be discriminated against in this country. Not being part of the top 1% doesn’t mean White Privilege isn’t a thing. It also doesn’t mean that white people should be allowed to be discriminated against based on race as if they were all the descendants of slave owners. 

    Everyone is capable of racism and being the victim of it depending on circumstances. And it’s pretty much gonna stay that way until two things happen:

    1.) people stop making preconceived notions of people based on being (fill in the blank), and using that as justification for shitty behavior towards (fill in the blank)

    2.) *everyone* decides to stop playing victim and get over themselves, regardless of the past of their ethnicity. 

    …Goddamn humans.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • Steohawk

    Confirmation bias undoubtedly plays a big role in causing many white people to feel racially discriminated against. Many whites DO face some form of racial discrimination at some point in their lives, but at the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, whites never get discriminated against for being black. In other words, they’re not experiencing life through the eyes of minorities. They’re only able to infer what minorities experience through second-hand observation. Now, a white person who a grew up in the sixties would most likely have witnessed some oppression of blacks, but that’s less likely today. For example, I (a white guy) went to school during the 90′s and early 00′s. The schools were in fairly peaceful neighborhoods, which despite the stereotype, had a lot of black people. I never once saw an act of racism during my whole time at school. However, I realize that my experience isn’t all there is to the world, and I know that racism is still a big problem. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t come to the same conclusion as me. We need to start realizing that today’s generation of whites often never witness the kinds of racism that their parents did, leading them to false conclusions. Rather than be angry at whites for this, we need to focus on the reasons that they’ve drawn these false conclusions, which will ultimately help us fight racism.

  • DeepCough

    Nope, sure wasn’t racist for white men to legislate–pardon, “compromise”–that people of African descent were three-fifths of a person. And white people are only crying racism cause they ain’t favored anymore. Dumbass.

  • DeepCough

    Fuck you, too.

  • Cl4yton

    Hmm… as someone descended from Germans running from a psychopath, Irish who never managed to break the poverty line, Mountain people who didn’t see electricity till the middle of the 19th century, and Native Americans hiding from rich racist assholes, all of those who lovingly embrace racism can go fuck themselves. Racism is racism, regardless of the race/class/culture it is directed against. I refuse to feel guilty for the crimes of the rich few, or for the wealth that we never saw.

  • Cl4yton

    Hmm… as someone descended from Germans running from a psychopath, Irish who never managed to break the poverty line, Mountain people who didn’t see electricity till the middle of the 19th century, and Native Americans hiding from rich racist assholes, all of those who lovingly embrace racism can go fuck themselves. Racism is racism, regardless of the race/class/culture it is directed against. I refuse to feel guilty for the crimes of the rich few, or for the wealth that we never saw.

  • Cl4yton

    Hmm… as someone descended from Germans running from a psychopath, Irish who never managed to break the poverty line, Mountain people who didn’t see electricity till the middle of the 19th century, and Native Americans hiding from rich racist assholes, all of those who lovingly embrace racism can go fuck themselves. Racism is racism, regardless of the race/class/culture it is directed against. I refuse to feel guilty for the crimes of the rich few, or for the wealth that we never saw.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Here we go again. I still remember the last discussion we had about this. Probably should find it and link it to save time.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Who said anything about prejudice or discrimination being “right”?  Sort of jumped to a conclusion there prematurely, didn’t you?  Is this a sensitive topic for you?  

    The fact of the matter is, there is a system of oppression operating in the west.  When a white person discriminates, it is enabled by this system and also helps perpetuate it.  This is not true when a minority acts on prejudice.  If minorities acing on prejudice is “racism”, then we need a new word for what white people do because it is not the same.  The effects aren’t the same, the vulnerabilities aren’t the same, and the power dynamic isn’t the same.  Pretending it is only helps the systematic oppression of minorities.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Hmmm what topic was that?  I vaguely recall the discussion, but not what article it was with.  Something about Glenn Beck maybe?  At any rate, I do recall helping you notice white privilege, which I consider a small success.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Hmmm what topic was that?  I vaguely recall the discussion, but not what article it was with.  Something about Glenn Beck maybe?  At any rate, I do recall helping you notice white privilege, which I consider a small success.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    The vast majority of white people have not benefited one damn bit. 

    Wrong.  A simple look at statistics comparing infant mortalitiy, length of prison sentences, wages, and a whole host of other things provides ample proof.  If you are white, you benefit from white privilege.  It is not something people do on purpose, the vast majority are completely unaware of it because it is completely invisible to them.  

    Those that currently rule society, regardless of their skin color, would sell out a million white working class people in half a heartbeat if it benefited them and their darker skinned cronies across the globe.

    Of course they would.  Something like that has no effect at all on the status quo.  That you think it is proof of anything confirms to me that you really don’t understand the way it works.   

  • Tuna Ghost

    You mean the Saudis that fund terrorism?  Those Saudis?  Let’s not pretend that any alliance they have is not based entirely on mutual greed and lust for power, or that they wouldn’t be at each other’s throats if the situation were different.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Feeling guilty is not the issue.  Personally I don’t give a shit whether or not you feel “guilty”.  I doubt anyone does (funny, though, how it’s always white people who start mentioning “guilt”).  The fact remains, however, that you benefit from a system of oppression, one that has been around for centuries.  Like I said earlier, if you call minorities acting on prejudice toward white people “racism” then we need a new word for what white people do, because it is not the same.  Pretending it is only helps perpetuate the system.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Nope.  Aside from the fact that we have no idea whether or not DeepCough is a minority or not, the fact that he called you “cracker” is not racist in and of itself.  There’s no entrenched system of oppression to give that word any power like there is for minority racial slurs.  Call it whatever you want, but don’t pretend for a minute that a minority calling a white person “cracker” is the same thing as a white person calling a black person “nigger”.  

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Found it: Its very rare to see a discussion start heated and end relatively civil

    http://disinfo.com/2011/03/racial-identity-tied-to-happiness-study-finds/

    We touched on a lot of things that I’m sure are being re-done here. 

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    Yea…. you totally missed my point. Your guilt and self hatred will only make it worse.

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    Obviously you have no idea what its like to be a a Jew as well. They fact your are completely ignorant of any racial dynamic other than black and white show how polarized and ignorant you are. People like perpetuate the democrat/republican politics that enslave this country and avoid real solutions. If you find no truth in the fact that two wrongs don’t make and right, and you have to meet in the middle not bend over and take.. you will never find peace. 

  • Guest

    No fuck you you racist turd.

  • Jumpingoffpoint

    “The fact that you and your family didn’t materially participate means nothing. ” Right, so fighting for individual freedoms and not having evil ancestry such as yours makes me just as guilty. My people fought for freedom for hundreds and hundreds of years for many others,  out motto is “for our freedom and yours.” Your argument is retarded. Your calling the only people who cared in the old complicit because they moved. Once again you gloss over the fact that I am only white when blacks want me to be, and not white enough when it comes people like you. 
    Your grandpa was a sociopathic slave raping bastard. sociopathy is genetic and your probably just as evil. I’m sure your using your out spoken “guilt” as a way to distract from your inner evil. Your as unracist as a homophobe is ungay. “He Doth Protest Too Much”

  • Mysophobe

    I never said all whites should feel guilty, I’m speaking to our nation’s guilt and requisite responsibility to it’s citizens. I had it rough coming up too for many reasons, but I’m honest enough with myself to admit that my light skin alone gave me many advantages that I otherwise would not have had. I also have had many other white strangers, in private, attempt to “commiserate” with me regarding their true feelings about minorities. The cycle of hate is being perpetuated, all right. Usually by the same folks who claim to be above it all. Just my observation.

  • Mysophobe

    What’s your point, that you had it worse? That the effort to present minorities with opportunity, here in the land of opportunity, hurts you somehow?

  • Mysophobe

    Nice. Congratulations on the peace and enlightenment you’ve obviously found. Cherish it.

  • Monkey’s Uncle

    That looks a lot like rationalizing. It’s all about the color of currency these days and it has been for some time. From my perspective the only people who have a problem with the color of skin are the people who want to have a problem it, This delusion serves them in whatever ways, but ultimately it serves in keeping us divided. Isn’t it funny how currently the minority has the power to pull the strings, and here you are helping them out by perpetuating the division that allows them to keep hold of those strings. Go ahead and wear your pointy hat while denouncing all those that wear a rounded hat. I sir, refuse to wear a hat and hope you do too. 

  • E.B. Wolf

    OK genius. If their alliance is not based on greed and power, what else is it based on? 
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alliance 

  • Mysaodj

     
    The problem with your argument is, that you’re talking about blacks and whites as if they are two different species.
    1.        Modern anthropologists believe humans originated from Africa (therefore we all have African descent).
    2.       Many blacks in the U.S. have a white patrilineal line (usually from a slave owner or handler). 
    3.       Most of the Africans enslaved were due to the efforts of both their neighboring tribes and whites.
     
    Also more recently due to social changes, there are more interracial babies.  What rules do you give someone who is a mixture of white and black?
     
     
    Because of this, genetically we are, all brothers and sisters.  How can we set different rules for people based on how they look externally? 

  • Mysaodj

     
    The problem with your argument is, that you’re talking about blacks and whites as if they are two different species.
    1.        Modern anthropologists believe humans originated from Africa (therefore we all have African descent).
    2.       Many blacks in the U.S. have a white patrilineal line (usually from a slave owner or handler). 
    3.       Most of the Africans enslaved were due to the efforts of both their neighboring tribes and whites.
     
    Also more recently due to social changes, there are more interracial babies.  What rules do you give someone who is a mixture of white and black?
     
     
    Because of this, genetically we are, all brothers and sisters.  How can we set different rules for people based on how they look externally? 

  • DeepCough

    Allow me to play advocatus diaboli: white people are only crying about how persecuted they feel because a white man is not sitting in the Oval Office, and the idea that this half-black, half-white person is oppressing them is a part of the white man’s burden: the idea that Caucasians are superior to all non-white races because they’re more civilized since they feel they are John Calvin’s “Elect of God.” But now that other races are occupying higher seats of power in American society, they take that as a sign of “reverse racism,” which is tragically ironic term on account of the fact that it demonstrates what WASPs have always opposed, and that’s integration.

  • chubby

     keep it up! they need to understand, there can be no change if you cannot even realize that what needs to be changed is in yourself…

  • digitalwoot

    If you want to lump me into the less desirable (and common) portion of my race for the sake of screwing me then you must also assume all black people are the stereotypes and treat them accordingly; this shit goes both ways. Ideally we’d go on the merit system for individuals but that shit would somehow be unfair too if too many of someone had an edge, bullshit.

  • digitalwoot

    If you want to lump me into the less desirable (and common) portion of my race for the sake of screwing me then you must also assume all black people are the stereotypes and treat them accordingly; this shit goes both ways. Ideally we’d go on the merit system for individuals but that shit would somehow be unfair too if too many of someone had an edge, bullshit.

  • rus_r_us

    200 seems a pretty fair statistical representation of the population, right?

  • rus_r_us

    200 seems a pretty fair statistical representation of the population, right?

  • DeepCough

    “ALLIANCE, n. In international politics, the union of two
    thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other’s pockets
    that they cannot separately plunder a third.” ~The Devil’s Dictionary

  • Anonymous

    if only to get my toe wet in this discussion, EXACTLY.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I’d vote for acts of racial prejudice by non-whites against whites to be referred to as racism…

    …and acts of racial prejudice by whites against non-whites to be upgraded to “Holy Shit, Motherfucking, Buttreamingly, Soulwrenchingly, Spectacularly Blatant Fucking Racist Fucking Racism”

    I figure it’ll take the Repugs at least a few weeks to figure out something that makes their pain and suffering sound greater than that…and it would take longer…except when inventing excuses to explain their non-stop perpetual martyrdom they actually show the tiny spark of imagination that so often escapes them.

  • KeepzitReal

    We treat each like we treat Earth.  With habitat destruction, nuclear meltdowns, coal plant ash spills,  plastic/oil in our oceans, animal endangerment/extinction and war….all caused by mankind. The one thing that we have to hold onto that does any good, is love.  I see a shortage in that everywhere.  If you ask me what color I am, I will say human.  I wont contribute to racial prejudice.  Humans are the problem, not a specific race, just our whole species in general… Where’s the change we need?

    • KeepzitReal

      *each other

  • KeepzitReal

    We treat each like we treat Earth.  With habitat destruction, nuclear meltdowns, coal plant ash spills,  plastic/oil in our oceans, animal endangerment/extinction and war….all caused by mankind. The one thing that we have to hold onto that does any good, is love.  I see a shortage in that everywhere.  If you ask me what color I am, I will say human.  I wont contribute to racial prejudice.  Humans are the problem, not a specific race, just our whole species in general… Where’s the change we need?

  • KeepzitReal

    *each other

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JR6QMHI5D3L6Z4JJBSAKO4KJBE brock

    As far as I can tell you haven’t said anything justifying or condoning reverse racism but people are still jumping your shit. Your argument seems pretty clear to me. Any instance of reverse racism is going to be trumped by white racist plus the institutionalized white-biased racism built into the system. That’s not to say that reverse racism is OK. On a case by case basis of overt racism it’s just as bad, and shouldn’t be tolerated. We just need to keep in mind the myriad of subtle ways people can be discriminated against systematically that a lot of us don’t have to worry about because of the color of our skin.

    It’s not that white people shouldn’t feel like reverse racism doesn’t exist, but that they should use it to help find a way to put an end to racism rather than as some sort of justification for their own prejudices.

  • Micho_rizo

    I grew up in a very, very small community that was about 90-percent Hispanic. As anyone with half a brain could deduce, this was a very poor, marginalized community with many of the ills that come along with that kind of situation. But Christmas was always a good time for all…even for non-Christians like myself. Damn fun. Everyone got together and stopped doing drugs and drinking just long enough to sing Christmas Carols and say group prayers and exchange gifts and sit down to a nice, fine, warm meal. At the end of it all, we ate cookies and drank hot cocoa. Then we sang some more songs.

    The problem was that most of the songs were sung in Spanish. So the ten percent of white people in the community, one year, got all up in arms because all the singing and praying in Spanish “was discriminatory.” They wrote letters to the local newspaper and boycotted various town activities during the season until the “town-sanctioned racism” was put to a halt.

    I’m half white, but I think that story show just how stupid, crude and oblivious this idea of “white persecution” really is.

  • Micho_rizo

    I grew up in a very, very small community that was about 90-percent Hispanic. As anyone with half a brain could deduce, this was a very poor, marginalized community with many of the ills that come along with that kind of situation. But Christmas was always a good time for all…even for non-Christians like myself. Damn fun. Everyone got together and stopped doing drugs and drinking just long enough to sing Christmas Carols and say group prayers and exchange gifts and sit down to a nice, fine, warm meal. At the end of it all, we ate cookies and drank hot cocoa. Then we sang some more songs.

    The problem was that most of the songs were sung in Spanish. So the ten percent of white people in the community, one year, got all up in arms because all the singing and praying in Spanish “was discriminatory.” They wrote letters to the local newspaper and boycotted various town activities during the season until the “town-sanctioned racism” was put to a halt.

    I’m half white, but I think that story show just how stupid, crude and oblivious this idea of “white persecution” really is.

  • Exile

    Simple.  There is a built in instinct to assume that there are not enough resources, to engage in a fight for what there is even when there is plenty.  So, we divide up.  Since sensory input is the most primary, we group by genotypical and phenotypical traits as experienced by the senses.  We find justification so that we can short-circuit a powerful social instinct that will destroy us when we act against others (except for psycho/socio paths).  As our thoughts have advanced, we have found more advanced ways to group off and extinguish “the other,” based on more complicated phenomena such as belief and values.  However, though we do not parade it, we feel uncomfortable around the physically different outsider.  Between the isms that are innate/repressed and the isms that we voluntarily participate in, cycles of killing and oppression continue. If people would truly and honestly observe their own behavior, they would realize this and I think that that realization could catalyze a change toward something that would be a little less harsh.  In the mean time, distinct groups will continue to use any justification necessary to edge out or dominate their perceived competition, equity and inequity be damned.  In a social sense, inequity and equity are subjective and based on individual feelings on how life “should” be and most often reached by default as a part of groupthink.  We can rail about it all we want, but it’ll do no good.  All of the Buddhas and Christs and Martin Luther Kings in the world have been railing against it for thousands of years, but still it continues, even perpetuated by THEIR FOLLOWERS.  I’d say grow up and get past the racism to everybody on all sides, but it’s not gonna happen.  Enjoy the hell you’re creating, you stupid monkeys (referring to people of all races, there.)

  • Exile

    Simple.  There is a built in instinct to assume that there are not enough resources, to engage in a fight for what there is even when there is plenty.  So, we divide up.  Since sensory input is the most primary, we group by genotypical and phenotypical traits as experienced by the senses.  We find justification so that we can short-circuit a powerful social instinct that will destroy us when we act against others (except for psycho/socio paths).  As our thoughts have advanced, we have found more advanced ways to group off and extinguish “the other,” based on more complicated phenomena such as belief and values.  However, though we do not parade it, we feel uncomfortable around the physically different outsider.  Between the isms that are innate/repressed and the isms that we voluntarily participate in, cycles of killing and oppression continue. If people would truly and honestly observe their own behavior, they would realize this and I think that that realization could catalyze a change toward something that would be a little less harsh.  In the mean time, distinct groups will continue to use any justification necessary to edge out or dominate their perceived competition, equity and inequity be damned.  In a social sense, inequity and equity are subjective and based on individual feelings on how life “should” be and most often reached by default as a part of groupthink.  We can rail about it all we want, but it’ll do no good.  All of the Buddhas and Christs and Martin Luther Kings in the world have been railing against it for thousands of years, but still it continues, even perpetuated by THEIR FOLLOWERS.  I’d say grow up and get past the racism to everybody on all sides, but it’s not gonna happen.  Enjoy the hell you’re creating, you stupid monkeys (referring to people of all races, there.)

  • ICE

    Usually racists are guilty of many other crimes from any race its just a sign of an evil deposition. No excuses and its not worse from one side to the other. 

  • JoJoDancer

    You obviously have never lived near a black neighborhood in Detroit, New Orleans, or Memphis if you think that there is no entrenched system of oppression to charge the word “cracker.”  The jungle politics of the hood are plenty entrenched, plenty contemptuous of whiteness, and I dare say much more dangerous than the capricious actions of the supposedly white police state.

    You know, Tuna Ghost, you, Mysophobe, and Deep Cough sure do come off like a couple of crackers.  I’d like to see how well your liberal brainwashing would serve you in the projects or even just a dense neighborhood teeming with the minorities with whom you claim to ally yourselves.

    What a couple of dupes.

  • ICE

    Usually racists are guilty of many other crimes from any race its just a sign of an evil deposition. No excuses and its not worse from one side to the other. 

  • JoJoDancer

    Hordes of Sub-Saharans murdering the wives and children of Afrikaners or the constant birage of mugging, robbing, and shooting that spills out of the ghetto into middle-class neighborhoods are not exactly trivial.  I’d like to see an accurate scholarly score card for racially motivated injustice, because at the moment the perceived “most racist race” is judged on the merit of dramatization and anecdotal evidence.

    For me, a white man, I’d say the biggest racist is the one who hates me because of my race.

  • DeepCough

    For the record, I’m white, so white that I have a great-granpappy in my family tree who was a Norwegian albino, and that’s so goddamned white, it makes Strom Thurmond look Mexican by comparison. So I reserve all right to call white people, or “Caucasians,” cracker, haystack, honky, WASP, Republican, Christian, and blue-eyed devil just as black people reserve the right to call each other “nigger.”

  • Mysophobe

    “The jungle politics of the hood…are much more dangerous than the capricious actions of the supposedly white police state.”

    And you call us dupes.

    The rest is kinda pointless, although your choice of words tells me a lot about you.
    You got rolled by a hooker in the French quarter, didn’t you? It’s okay to admit, it happens. That fake rolex can be easily replaced. Her laughing at your tiny dick, on the other hand, may not be so easily undone.

  • Okarin

    as noam chomsky would say, this is all a game by the rich to get the people fighting each other for any reason they can find so the heat is kept off the rich

  • Okarin

    as noam chomsky would say, this is all a game by the rich to get the people fighting each other for any reason they can find so the heat is kept off the rich

  • bobbiethejean

    I’m torn between being ashamed of my skin color and being ashamed of humanity in general. 

    • MadHierophant

      I can support that second one, but never be ashamed of the first. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    I’m torn between being ashamed of my skin color and being ashamed of humanity in general. 

  • Nuggett

    Oft overlooked point and it’s unfortunate.  You’re exactly right.

    I think racism is completely misunderstood.  Prejudice is the real culprit here.  Prejudice accounts for cultural, physical, and social differences.  It’s all inclusive.  Racism, as a shared concept, is limiting in its scope and only really insinuates a misinformed, active judgement against another based on skin color.

    How a group of people organize against a perceived threat, or, how they organize to seize an opportunity (slavery) is entirely dependent on the group’s state of mind concerning the other culture, not necessarily just the “color of their skin.”  When attempting to determine the root of prejudice, focusing on one property of a different culture such as skin color is ludicrous.  It’s ONE PROPERTY.  Albeit it is the most obvious, but it hardly explains the malcontent and warfare.  It even distracts from the issue.  It’s smell, total physical appearance, customs, shyness, a lack of shyness, your culture’s talents, how you eat, when you sleep, what God you believe in, and etc.  If one group shares features unique to their group and not to another, the other group lacks that experience and or understanding of the feature(s).  They may misinterpret it.  They do misinterpret it.  

    Anyways, arguing “white racists are the worst” is a moot point.  People are racists.  Lots of them.  All colors.  Because many whites organize their reactionary philosophy of fear and ignorance in a particular manner, the misconception is that their version of racism is the worst because of scale and other factors.  It is not indicative that they are “more racist”, it is only indicative of how their culture assembles and reacts accordingly.   

    There is no such thing as “reverse racism”.  Just racism.

  • JoJoDancer

    You got me all wrong, Mysophobe.  But then, you seem to have a lot of things wrong, so I won’t start schooling you here.

  • Mysophobe

    Don’t bother, I get it. You got embarrassed or intimidated by a minority or two way back when. That fear and/or shame affected you deeply. But then you found a way to fight back and feel safe again by focusing on the negative aspects of “the other”. You look for examples and statistics all around you that reinforce your preconceived notions, and are repulsed and enraged by those who challenge you. Despite your supposed expertise on the subject you offer no solutions, only useless complaining. You delight in highlighting the shortcomings of minorities, hence your screen name mocking the story of a black man fighting his demons in a way you find comical.

    Gee, this whole “making assumptions about strangers thing” is fun. Thanks for introducing me to the concept.

  • JoJoDancer

    Again, you don’t get it, least of all my screen name.  I have quite a fondness for Richard Pryor and his life story.  I feel a great kinship toward him.  You seem to be the one making assumptions about strangers.

    As for my feelings toward blacks and Hispanics, you are no more aquainted with my relationship to the Other than you are entitled to project your own guilty conscience upon me.  You feel safe getting down on whites because insulting whites is a safe way to flex a superiority complex in a liberal milieu.  Even whites can use Anglophobia as a way to feel superior to their own kind.  Nothing is safer or farther from “revolutionary” at this point.

    If you had any working knowledge of ethnic diversity, you would know that in places where people feel a strong sense of common identity (eg. black neighborhoods, Muslim countries, Mormon communities) there is an equally strong sense of the Other.  In those places, the Other is rarely welcome.  The adoption of the Other’s way of life is not only discouraged, it can provoke a violent rejection.  I’m fine with that.  I never make it a habit to go where I am not welcome.  Numerous wayward travels have taught me that. 

    It is very precious to encounter another culture–be it a black household or a dinner party in Greece–and receive a warm welcome.  Hospitality is not an entitlement, though, it is a privilege.  I only wish that more non-whites and their liberal cheerleaders understood that.

  • Tuna Ghost

    He understood your point quite well, actually.  His entire post was a refutation of your point.  Your reaction is a typical white person’s reaction when issues like the ones Mysophobe has discussed are raised.  “You’re not listening!  They called me names.  RACISM! Yes I’m just as qualified to talk about racism as you!  I’ve experienced racism too, our experiences are the same and deserve to be treated as such!”  

  • Tuna Ghost

    What “rules” are you talking about?  No one has mentioned any “rules”, this is about the definitions of the words we are using.  This is about the present state of things, the status quo.  As for interracial children, why don’t you ask them about their experiences?  Or has that not occurred to you?  

  • Tuna Ghost

    From my perspective the only people who have a problem with the color of skin are the people who want to have a problem it,…

    This is a common perspective, and it is a perspective that comes from white privilege.  As I’ve said before, white people who say “I don’t see color, I just see humans” are essentially saying “I mean well, I really do, but I’m dumb as fuck”.  Not seeing color is a luxury.  White people are able to not notice they’re white.  Minorities are not.  They are constantly reminded, every day, that they are not white.  They are constantly reminded, every day, that they are a minority.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    As much as I hate it, the term “reverse-racism” is enlightening in one regard.  It’s “reverse” racism because racism is apparently only supposed to go one way.  

    Like I said earlier, minorities acting on prejudice is not the same as white people acting on prejudice.  The effects aren’t the same, the power dynamic isn’t the same, the social systems empowering them aren’t equal.  One is oppression, one is name-calling.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    …um, I think you may need to read what I wrote again.  Carefully.  You may notice you’ve come away with the exact opposite idea of what I’ve written.

  • Tuna Ghost

    IT’S STILL WHITE VS BLACK, YOU IDIOT!

    Now let’s play Go instead.  

    trombone: wah wah waaaaaahhhhhhh

  • Tuna Ghost

    You’re perpetuating it by insisting ALL white people share guilt for injustices committed by YOUR family even if their families never owned slaves, profited from the slave trade or slave labor, or even if their ancestors weren’t in america when it was happening.
    I don’t think he’s insisting all white people share the guilt.  But he, and I, are insisting that you recognize that white people are still benefitting, today, right now, from the horrible things done throughout the history of the US.  It’s not about who feels guilty.  If dude feels guilty, that’s his business.  If you don’t feel guilty, that’s fine and dandy.  Your hand never held the lash.  But you need to be aware that you are still benefitting from the US’s systemic racism.  Its unintentional, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is happening.  Ignoring it will only help keep it going.  Awareness is the answer here.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    You’re perpetuating it by insisting ALL white people share guilt for injustices committed by YOUR family even if their families never owned slaves, profited from the slave trade or slave labor, or even if their ancestors weren’t in america when it was happening.
    I don’t think he’s insisting all white people share the guilt.  But he, and I, are insisting that you recognize that white people are still benefitting, today, right now, from the horrible things done throughout the history of the US.  It’s not about who feels guilty.  If dude feels guilty, that’s his business.  If you don’t feel guilty, that’s fine and dandy.  Your hand never held the lash.  But you need to be aware that you are still benefitting from the US’s systemic racism.  Its unintentional, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is happening.  Ignoring it will only help keep it going.  Awareness is the answer here.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Once again you gloss over the fact that I am only white when blacks want me to be, and not white enough when it comes people like you.

    Wow.  Buddy, you are never not white.  Your credit rating, your likelihood of being stopped by the police while driving, your housing opportunities, your job opportunities, these things know you’re white whether or not you recognize it.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    You obviously have never lived near a black neighborhood in Detroit,…

    I lived in Detroit before I moved to South Korea, guy.  Still, it’s pretty cool that you’re trying to be more “street” than me.    

    No, there is no entrenched system that gives any power to the word “cracker”.  I’m curious as to why you think there is.  Where do you see it?  How does it manifest itself?  Can you describe it in terms of process?  

    …and I dare say much more dangerous than the capricious actions of the supposedly white police state.

    Tell that to Sean Bell.  You’ll need to get a Ouija Board though because the police shot him fifty times (literally, fifty shots were fired at him) when he was unarmed.  But it’d probably be easier to just look at the statistics, which plainly reveal that your argument is ridiculous.  Once again, contemptuous of whiteness does not equal “racism”, especially given the history of Detroit.  

    I know it helps your narrative to see me as a white liberal who claim to be allies of a group of minorities that likely resent me, but the simple fact of the matter is that I’m not an ally of anyone.  I’m just aware of the dominant power groups and the way they operate.  Awareness is the biggest issue here, buddy, not guilt or anything like that.

    Ask yourself why this is such an uncomfortable topic for you.  I’m not asking you to tell me the answer, but honestly ask yourself that.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    If you had any working knowledge of ethnic diversity, you would know that in places where people feel a strong sense of common identity (eg. black neighborhoods, Muslim countries, Mormon communities) there is an equally strong sense of the Other.  In those places, the Other is rarely welcome.  

    Huh, it’s almost as if they’ve had a bad experience with another ethnicity or something.  What’s that all about, I wonder…

    You feel safe getting down on whites because insulting whites is a safe way to flex a superiority complex in a liberal milieu.  Even whites can use Anglophobia as a way to feel superior to their own kind.Actually, white anti-racists can be much more damaging than that, and the damage is much more insidious.  White anti-racists can talk the talk, point out racism in action, point out their own racism, feel good about it, and then turn around do absolutely nothing.  If you took the time to talk to minorities about it, some of them will tell you that white anti-racists are worse than your average white person who is completely ignorant of all of it.  With the latter, at least you won’t hear them say “such and such is an action founded in racism, it’s abhorrent” before they do it.   I sincerely think you may enjoy these links, JoJo Dancer.  God knows why I’m giving them to you, but check them out.  It won’t take even a couple minutes.  To White Women Who Think They’re Different: Stop Fuckin’ Touching Mehttp://www.nathanielturner.com/towhitewomenwhothink.htm”White Anti-Racist” Is An Oxymoronhttp://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm

  • Tuna Ghost

    2.) *everyone* decides to stop playing victim and get over themselves, regardless of the past of their ethnicity. 

    …Goddamn humans.

    …Do you have any idea how condescending and offensive it is, hearing this from white people?  Pay attention: saying “I don’t see color, I see human” or “I stopped being white and joined the human race” is something only white people can do.  It is a luxury to forget that you’re x/y/z.  Minorities are not able to do that.  Minorities are reminded every day what they are, and what they are not.  You can’t “get over it” when its shoved in your face every day that you’re not white, that you’re different, that you’re a minority.  Saying “get over it” is so fucking ignorant and condescending it makes me shit my pants.  I just shat my pants, seeing you write that.  

    Shit. 

    In my pants.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    yeah, it kinda did go in reverse didn’t it.  

  • Anonymous

    It was a reference to the movie Wargames, and it was said in response to the futility of playing a game where everyone loses. In this case, the race game. 

    But I can’t expect you to have seen it, what with that hipster defense manifesto you wrote. Too mainstream.

  • Mysophobe

    Are you really that surprised that your original assumption-ridden post elicited hostility?  Strange that you don’t recognize your own tactic when it’s used against you.  I must thank you, however, for cluing me in to the fact that different cultures have concepts similar to, and yet different, than others.  That had always escaped me.  That you see me as “insulting” white people tells me all i need to know.  Just call me a race traitor and get it over with.  We both know that’s where this is going.

  • Anonymous

    *hands you a towel.*

    A.) I’m black. Yes, me. I didn’t say that I don’t see color. I’ve been stopped on the street by cops for “fitting the description of a suspect” of a crime I wasn’t anywhere near just to fill a quota. Other black kids and I had  expectations lowered for us in school, and I knew it when me and some others got special awards for getting good grades…and being black. I want to get into the animation industry, where my kind are few and far between, for whatever reason.  So it’s not like I’ve lived some sheltered life where I never encountered race or racism. I’m black and I know it, and I’m never gonna forget it. Thanks for the sanctimonious  speech where you assume I’m white though, that was hilarious. Especially given my avatar.

    B.) Ignoring race is retarded. It’s there, it’s part of what makes us who we are as individuals on a physical level, if not cultural. Minorities don’t have the luxury of being able to ignore race, but soon NO ONE will have the luxury of being able to use race as an excuse for arbitrary social dividers or justification for victim mentality. And you can’t say that society alone accounts for the reason minorities are held down, the “crabs -in-a-barrel” syndrome is a real thing that I’ve seen in my lifetime. Sure, part of it is due to racism, but how much of it is self-fulfilling prophecy? More than you’d probably want to admit. Pretentious white people trying to be aloof about race aren’t the only ones with a damaging world view. That’s why I called for EVERYONE to let go of preconceived notions, because we’re going to have other things to worry about in due time.

    Like, say, The collapse of the ecosphere, world economy and social order.

    My reasons for saying we should “get over” race stem form pragmatism. If nothing else, people need to let go of past prejudices because soon all we’re gonna have is each other. The fewer stupid reasons we have to fight each other, or worse, NOT help each other, the better.

  • Anonymous

    *hands you a towel.*

    A.) I’m black. Yes, me. I didn’t say that I don’t see color. I’ve been stopped on the street by cops for “fitting the description of a suspect” of a crime I wasn’t anywhere near just to fill a quota. Other black kids and I had  expectations lowered for us in school, and I knew it when me and some others got special awards for getting good grades…and being black. I want to get into the animation industry, where my kind are few and far between, for whatever reason.  So it’s not like I’ve lived some sheltered life where I never encountered race or racism. I’m black and I know it, and I’m never gonna forget it. Thanks for the sanctimonious  speech where you assume I’m white though, that was hilarious. Especially given my avatar.

    B.) Ignoring race is retarded. It’s there, it’s part of what makes us who we are as individuals on a physical level, if not cultural. Minorities don’t have the luxury of being able to ignore race, but soon NO ONE will have the luxury of being able to use race as an excuse for arbitrary social dividers or justification for victim mentality. And you can’t say that society alone accounts for the reason minorities are held down, the “crabs -in-a-barrel” syndrome is a real thing that I’ve seen in my lifetime. Sure, part of it is due to racism, but how much of it is self-fulfilling prophecy? More than you’d probably want to admit. Pretentious white people trying to be aloof about race aren’t the only ones with a damaging world view. That’s why I called for EVERYONE to let go of preconceived notions, because we’re going to have other things to worry about in due time.

    Like, say, The collapse of the ecosphere, world economy and social order.

    My reasons for saying we should “get over” race stem form pragmatism. If nothing else, people need to let go of past prejudices because soon all we’re gonna have is each other. The fewer stupid reasons we have to fight each other, or worse, NOT help each other, the better.

  • Anonymous

    I can support that second one, but never be ashamed of the first. 

  • JoJoDancer

    I’m quite comfortable talking about race with intelligent people.  Perhaps you assume more than is appropriate.

    Are you familiar with the Christian-Newsom case from Knoxville, TN?  If not, then Google it.  I see that scenario as being at least as insidious as the Sean Bell case.

    As to “cracker” not being racist, I’ll say this.  Blacks rule Harlem.  I’ve visited Harlem many times.  When I am with a black friend, Harlem opens itself up to me–to an extent, anyway.  When I was alone or with lighter hued individuals, I’ve occasionally been on the sour end of racial aggression. Why?  Because blacks rule those blocks of Harlem and strange white individuals are not welcome.  The Harlemites are pumped up on historical grievances, they have the physical power to enforce their racist resentments, and if you stumble into the wrong lair, they will fuck you up.  Don’t believe me?  Go there.

    New Orleans is another case in point, but much more dangerous.  Living near the black neighborhoods by the fairgrounds, you knew which neighborhoods to avoid, which streets to never cross after dark.  Why?  Because you would get fucking killed.  Blacks can get killed there, too, but white skin is a sure marker for prey.  The black gangsters hold the power in those territories, and they are beyond contemptuous of whites.

    Now, if a black winds up in a rich white neighborhood driving a shitty car, he’s more than likely going to get pulled over, searched, and fucked with.  He might go to jail.  In extreme circumstances, he might get shot.  I would wager that a black man is much better off in the hands of white police than a white woman would be in the ghetto. 

    The institutionalized racism you speak of is very real in certain regions, in corporate, government, or social settings dominated by whites.  But Atlanta, New Orleans, and Philadelphia are all basically run by blacks.  There is even a black president presiding at a federal level.  Most of their neighborhoods are black, and white minorities are not generally received with open arms.  Black power is not as strong as white power at the moment, but it is growing.  And that is great–mostly for blacks.

    I will read the links you provided.  Sorry I called you a dupe.

  • http://www.cartellingwindows.com Cartellingwindows

    Why are whites feeling discriminated agianst..

    they are not.. those who are willing to beleive others hate them  are the controlled people. 

     it is a United Nations marketing ploy to switch the balance of power from white to dark..from super power to third world.. to disarm the new kellers  ( the Americas) and open up markets in countries who now have buying power..Freed eastern block, china , russia.., to allow world banks to balance the global econmic  balance sheet and prevent inflation..

    is the writer of :
    New Study Reveals Whites Feel More Discriminated Against Than Minorities
    Posted by TunaGhost on September 5, 2011
      have dark colored skin?  

  • http://www.cartellingwindows.com Cartellingwindows

    Why are whites feeling discriminated agianst..

    they are not.. those who are willing to beleive others hate them  are the controlled people. 

     it is a United Nations marketing ploy to switch the balance of power from white to dark..from super power to third world.. to disarm the new kellers  ( the Americas) and open up markets in countries who now have buying power..Freed eastern block, china , russia.., to allow world banks to balance the global econmic  balance sheet and prevent inflation..

    is the writer of :
    New Study Reveals Whites Feel More Discriminated Against Than Minorities
    Posted by TunaGhost on September 5, 2011
      have dark colored skin?  

  • JoJoDancer

    That you see me as “insulting” white people tells me all i need to know.

    Well, Mysophobe, let’s go through the list for a moment, shall we?  When Jumpingoffpoint talked about being attacked by blacks for what he believes to be racial motivation, you immediately dismissed him with sarcasm, saying:

    Do you understand the difference between institutionalized racism and you just being called a nasty name or looked at funny? I’m sorry you’ve been so terribly persecuted…

    Nasty names and funny looks?  What about being beaten, robbed, raped, or murdered?  You don’t know that there are numerous predatory blacks who attack whites out of resentment or racial hatred?  How naive.

    Aside from creating an admittedly funny scenario about a small-dicked white man getting rolled by a black hooker in the French Quarter–is that a bit of racial stereotyping on your part?–you also said to me:

    You got embarrassed or intimidated by a minority or two way back when…But then you found a way to fight back and feel safe again by focusing on the negative aspects of “the other”. You look for examples and statistics all around you that reinforce your preconceived notions, and are repulsed and enraged by those who challenge you.

    You know nothing about me, and yet create a mini-bio out of your own projections.  Talk about choice of words giving away the writer’s soul!  To Jumpingoffpoint, you said:

    Reverse discrimination? Grow the F up. White guilt? You bet. My people helped commit this atrocity.

    Well then, it sounds like you are the one who should have had the shit kicked out of you by a pack of pissed off thugs.  According to you, your Virginian blood is stained with past grievances.  The Polish Jew didn’t do anything but walk down the wrong street.  If you want to alleviate your ancestral guilt, I would recommend walking east on Orleans Ave. in NOLA until you find justice.

  • Elmyr23

    i’m not benifitting from our white rulers. Hell rockafellers great nephew happens to be locked up down the road from here. He isn’t close enough to the innner family to actually know the rich rockafellers. If your implying that a white man hires people that look/act more like him, i would agree. If you said a black man, latino, asian, middle eastern, european or african would do the same i would also agree. The fact that most the same old wealthy families happen to mostly be white in this country and still have all the power has less to due with racism and more to due with class.

    You have to understand that i see racism in history and yes it has put black americans at a disadvantage for the last 100+ years, but this is a global and historical problem that goes back to tribes. It is not always just race that makes these inequalities. The demographics of the country play into it.

    Forgive me but here are some quick links to try and show what i mean. these are for 2010

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/16/number-americans-poverty-jumps-m-working-age-poor-highest-level-s-1342948919/

    “Poverty rose among all race and ethnic groups, but stood at higher
    levels for blacks and Hispanics. The number of Hispanics in poverty
    increased from 23.2 percent to 25.3 percent; for blacks it increased
    from 24.7 percent to 25.8 percent. The number of whites in poverty rose
    from 8.6 percent to 9.4 percent.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

    whites  223,553,265    72.4%  makes 21,014,006 in poverty
    blacks  38,929,319  
    12.6%   4,905,094 in poverty 

    so we have nearly 5 times as many white people living in poverty than black in this country set out with white advantage. Maybe my point is lost but we should really start focusing on the top 1%, most of us no matter the race are not getting a fair share of the tax breaks or income from thier labor.

  • Elmyr23

    you should read “guns germs and steal”  by jared diamond. It is a look at the last 40,000 years of history and why certain cultures came to power and why others stayed in the past. This is not a white phenomenon, but rather a common trait to all humans since the construction of civilization.

    you know what your white anti racist link is fucking stupid. preception is reality but reality is not perception.

  • JoJoDancer

    I read your links.  This is what I think.

    To White Women Who Think They’re Different:  Stop Fuckin’ Touching Me
    http://www.nathanielturner.com/towhitewomenwhothink.htm

    So let me get this straight… The author, Kil Ja Kim, is an Asian woman who not only feels entitled to put herself in the same class of racial victimhood as American “blacks, reds, and browns,” she is also in a position to tell white women that they are racist by default and have no right to speak up on behalf of ethnic underclasses?

    So you can stop trying to think we alike.
    Stop thinking
    that just because we use the same bathroom in public spaces
    mean we in the same boat.

    I suppose she never heard of the Freedom Riders–or else doesn’t care–or she never read about white indentured servitude or whites leading the American labor movement–or else she doesn’t care about that, either.  If she thinks such events are trivial, all I can say is let her go back to Asia where she can fit into the dominant ethnic group and be applauded for her racist views against whites.  Then she should send me a postcard as soon as possible.

    “White Anti-Racist” is an Oxymoron
    http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm

    Kil Ja Kim says:

    There is a sick way in which white people want to emulate that which is
    considered “badass” about a certain existential position of Blackness…

    Sort of like this Asian woman who writes poetry in Ebonic slang?  Do I detect some shame projection here?  Who is she to speak up for anyone besides Koreans?  And if she speaks for Koreans, does that mean that Koreans are anti-white bigots?  As in:

    …whiteness is a structure of domination.  As such, there is nothing redeemable or reformed about whiteness.

    Then she goes on to say:
     
    Other racial groups, particularly Blacks and Native Americans, are considered inherently criminal no matter what they do, what their sexual identity is or what they wear.

    I don’t know any white person who believes other races to be as ubiquitously despicable as Kil Ja Kim apparently believes white people to be, and I know some redneck motherfuckers.  What would this freedom fighter do with us blue-eyed devils?

    They must be committed to either picking up arms for other [non-white] people (and only firing when the people tell them so), dying for other [non-white] people, or just getting out of the way.  In short, they must be willing to do what the [non-white] people most affected and marginalized by a situation tell them to do.

    So in order to atone for the centuries-old abuses of a wealthy minority of whites, all whites should become slaves.  I only wish that you were Kil Ja Kim, Tuna Ghost, because I would tell you to go fuck yourself.

    White people’s bodies are generally not the site of fear, repulsion, violent desire, or hatred.

    Unless, of course, you ask an Asian harpy.

  • JoJoDancer

    I read your links.  This is what I think.

    To White Women Who Think They’re Different:  Stop Fuckin’ Touching Me
    http://www.nathanielturner.com/towhitewomenwhothink.htm

    So let me get this straight… The author, Kil Ja Kim, is an Asian woman who not only feels entitled to put herself in the same class of racial victimhood as American “blacks, reds, and browns,” she is also in a position to tell white women that they are racist by default and have no right to speak up on behalf of ethnic underclasses?

    So you can stop trying to think we alike.
    Stop thinking
    that just because we use the same bathroom in public spaces
    mean we in the same boat.

    I suppose she never heard of the Freedom Riders–or else doesn’t care–or she never read about white indentured servitude or whites leading the American labor movement–or else she doesn’t care about that, either.  If she thinks such events are trivial, all I can say is let her go back to Asia where she can fit into the dominant ethnic group and be applauded for her racist views against whites.  Then she should send me a postcard as soon as possible.

    “White Anti-Racist” is an Oxymoron
    http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm

    Kil Ja Kim says:

    There is a sick way in which white people want to emulate that which is
    considered “badass” about a certain existential position of Blackness…

    Sort of like this Asian woman who writes poetry in Ebonic slang?  Do I detect some shame projection here?  Who is she to speak up for anyone besides Koreans?  And if she speaks for Koreans, does that mean that Koreans are anti-white bigots?  As in:

    …whiteness is a structure of domination.  As such, there is nothing redeemable or reformed about whiteness.

    Then she goes on to say:
     
    Other racial groups, particularly Blacks and Native Americans, are considered inherently criminal no matter what they do, what their sexual identity is or what they wear.

    I don’t know any white person who believes other races to be as ubiquitously despicable as Kil Ja Kim apparently believes white people to be, and I know some redneck motherfuckers.  What would this freedom fighter do with us blue-eyed devils?

    They must be committed to either picking up arms for other [non-white] people (and only firing when the people tell them so), dying for other [non-white] people, or just getting out of the way.  In short, they must be willing to do what the [non-white] people most affected and marginalized by a situation tell them to do.

    So in order to atone for the centuries-old abuses of a wealthy minority of whites, all whites should become slaves.  I only wish that you were Kil Ja Kim, Tuna Ghost, because I would tell you to go fuck yourself.

    White people’s bodies are generally not the site of fear, repulsion, violent desire, or hatred.

    Unless, of course, you ask an Asian harpy.

  • JoJoDancer

    I read your links.  This is what I think.

    To White Women Who Think They’re Different:  Stop Fuckin’ Touching Me
    http://www.nathanielturner.com/towhitewomenwhothink.htm

    So let me get this straight… The author, Kil Ja Kim, is an Asian woman who not only feels entitled to put herself in the same class of racial victimhood as American “blacks, reds, and browns,” she is also in a position to tell white women that they are racist by default and have no right to speak up on behalf of ethnic underclasses?

    So you can stop trying to think we alike.
    Stop thinking
    that just because we use the same bathroom in public spaces
    mean we in the same boat.

    I suppose she never heard of the Freedom Riders–or else doesn’t care–or she never read about white indentured servitude or whites leading the American labor movement–or else she doesn’t care about that, either.  If she thinks such events are trivial, all I can say is let her go back to Asia where she can fit into the dominant ethnic group and be applauded for her racist views against whites.  Then she should send me a postcard as soon as possible.

    “White Anti-Racist” is an Oxymoron
    http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm

    Kil Ja Kim says:

    There is a sick way in which white people want to emulate that which is
    considered “badass” about a certain existential position of Blackness…

    Sort of like this Asian woman who writes poetry in Ebonic slang?  Do I detect some shame projection here?  Who is she to speak up for anyone besides Koreans?  And if she speaks for Koreans, does that mean that Koreans are anti-white bigots?  As in:

    …whiteness is a structure of domination.  As such, there is nothing redeemable or reformed about whiteness.

    Then she goes on to say:
     
    Other racial groups, particularly Blacks and Native Americans, are considered inherently criminal no matter what they do, what their sexual identity is or what they wear.

    I don’t know any white person who believes other races to be as ubiquitously despicable as Kil Ja Kim apparently believes white people to be, and I know some redneck motherfuckers.  What would this freedom fighter do with us blue-eyed devils?

    They must be committed to either picking up arms for other [non-white] people (and only firing when the people tell them so), dying for other [non-white] people, or just getting out of the way.  In short, they must be willing to do what the [non-white] people most affected and marginalized by a situation tell them to do.

    So in order to atone for the centuries-old abuses of a wealthy minority of whites, all whites should become slaves.  I only wish that you were Kil Ja Kim, Tuna Ghost, because I would tell you to go fuck yourself.

    White people’s bodies are generally not the site of fear, repulsion, violent desire, or hatred.

    Unless, of course, you ask an Asian harpy.

  • JoJoDancer

    Amen to that, man.

  • Mysophobe

    C’mon, now you’re going to pretend you weren’t looking for trouble from the start? Why would I engage your condescension with anything other than derision and ridicule? You argue from authority based on your supposed unique racial bonafides, but all I hear out of you is “well, minorities do it too!” Honestly, you’re just a spectator as far as I can tell. I can’t believe I’m doing this, but since you seem so preoccupied with credentials:
    I’ve spent the last 20 years in the building trades in a major diverse city working above, below, for and alongside all stripes of people. (Not sure what happened to that Virginia plantation money, but I never saw a dime of it). You’d be amazed at the things that come up among a racially diverse group working towards a common goal. I’ve been a debtor, creditor, mentor, protege, business partner, you name it. I’m happy to share everything I know and I’ve even helped several go into business on their own. I’ve gone to bat for them when they asked me to, surprised and disgusted by how quickly the appearance of a white face can smooth over a potential problem. I’ve seen first hand how many of our customers treat them and talk about them when they’re not around and regret not having the balls to tell them where they could shove their money. I’ve also been beaten and robbed by all stripes from over the years, and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t deserve it a couple times. I’ve had my truck and tools stolen in the middle of the night by two white (gasp!) meth heads. I totally get that my motives are impure but really, who gives a shit? I try to be pure of action and that’s all that matters to me and the people I work with. I can honestly say that I try my lily white best to judge others solely on the content of their character, and I’ve never taken advantage of anyone. So I must ask, what do you have to offer other than pointing out the obvious and calling other people naive in order to disguise your own insecurities?

  • JoJoDancer

    I was trained in my manual labor trade by a two white men, two Latinos, and a black man.  You can slap an Iron Rainbow merit badge on my sash now. 

    I get where you are coming from, but I believe that you overextend the bounds of politeness and rational sense.  When you dismissed Jumpingoffpoint’s anecdote about being attacked by blacks, it set me off.  Taking your derision alongside Tuna Ghost’s claims that whites do not deserve to speak out against racism toward other races or, God forbid, their own, I decided to use a nasty name.  Maybe I shouldn’t have called you “dupes.”

    My point still stands, though.  Whites have every right to look out for their self-interests inasmuch as they are perceived as or perceive themselves to be a group.  Everyone does.  You and Tuna Ghost insist that whites have no moral ground to stand on–if you read the links provided by Tuna Ghost you will even find the claim that whites are only useful to non-whites to the extent that they blindly serve them.  I disagree. 

    Many of us have done a lot for our own people, and a few have even done a lot for the Other.  You obviously feel like your association with and benefaction toward other races entitles you to a moral high ground.  If that is the case, then so does mine, but I don’t need to list my good deeds to claim the right to self-interest or self-preservation.  Jumpingoffpoint doesn’t need to list his family background or historical grievances to be pissed about getting beaten up for being white.  White people don’t have to trace their family trees to non-slave-owners to be indignant about so-called “reverse racism.”

    What do I have to offer?  My perspective: Be true to yourself and your own.  And as much as you can squeeze altruism from this hardscrabble existence, Love your neighbor as yourself.

  • Mysophobe

    With regards to my interactions with Jumpingoffpoint, I suggest you check the comment times before you jump to too many more conclusions. He, like you, was initially repulsed by my recounting of my family’s true story and my reaction to it. I knew that saying I felt guilty would bring people like you out of the woodwork, but I guess I’m just a glutton for punishment. Of course I realize the son is not responsible for the sins of the father, just wanted to see who would come on a “white people think they have it worse” thread to say “hey, that’s me!”

  • JoJoDancer

    I respect you more than I ever could the race-crusading (and presumably Asian) Tuna Ghost, the self-described “race traitor” Mysophobe, or the generally pugnacious DeepCough.  Racism is as basic as “crabs in a barrel” as you say, and too primal to overcome by simply ignoring it.  But whites and blacks and browns and yellows can get along and even become best friends on the periphery of that human tendency toward ethnic identity.  For that I am thankful.

    There was a time when I thought that races as groups could have as deep of a relationship with the Other as I have had on an individual level.  I am not so hopeful these days.  But I can’t lament overlong the discord between tribes so long as my personal friendships hold fast.

    When confronted with unfriendly whites (or Latinos, or Asians, or Muslims, or Republicans), do you find yourself reverting to learned stereotypes?  Do these simple-minded, almost instinctive notions–or prejudices–occasionally serve you well?  Mine do.  I feel like all people have a right to their prejudices, while at the same time I believe that keeping a sharp eye out for exceptional individuals is the only way to experience the full spectrum of life.

    As for the collapse of the ecoshpere, the world economy, and social order, I just hope that my bills are all paid up come Armageddon!

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/ZYCERIN Zycerin

    Hear hear!!! And before any fish in this massive sea of comments assumes I am part of the local KKK affiliates, let me enlighten the issue that I am not “white” myself.

    However not black, I am a genuine bottle of Heinz 57 American style, which means I am not accepted by any branch of my own heritage fully. I am just a mutt that has sat on the sidelines of all the crass and ignorant racism that gets thrown from all sides in this place we call the “south”, cheering that we should all just get the fuck over it. Occasionally I get to engage in my own anti racist rants with others around me, but truly unless you live in the south some things will not make sense to you. Such as the equality of racism… it literally comes from ALL sides here. And when you have no “brothers” of any kind to side with you, you feel quite feeble taking a stand against it all.

    Just wanted to share my piece ’cause I do agree with ya MadHierophant!!

  • JoJoDancer

    Okay, let’s get one thing straight: Tuna Ghost, DeepCough, you, and I are all assholes.  So I’ll quit saying “you started it” if you will, deal?  Also, I’m starting a new thread before we run out of space.  Meet me there, if you dare.  I’ll be happy to read whatever you say carefully.

  • JoJoDancer

    In response to Mysophobe, who said:

    …just wanted to see who would come on a “white people think they have it worse” thread to say “hey, that’s me”

    White people who cannot afford the luxury of police protection or private security–or those who simply wander down the wrong street–do have it worse than non-whites in the working class neighborhoods of Memphis, New Orleans, Detroit, Atlanta, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, etc. etc. Look at the FBI crime statistics, if you believe in statistics.  Why are whites targeted more often? Because they are the minority in those cities, and the ethnic majorities have been taught for two generations that these whites are their enemies and opressors.

    If you have the money to insulate yourself from this collective resentment, you can rest easy. If you don’t, then racial/cultural profiling can be a useful survival tool. Black thugs, white tweekers, and Asian ninjas are best avoided. You know that as well as I do.

    Sometimes it is safer to stick with birds of your own feather, and I don’t blame anyone for that. Personally, I usually wing it alone, but only the self-righteous would mock someone for joining the herd–or avoiding certain herds–for the purpose of self-preservation.

  • TennesseeCyberian

    In response to Mysophobe, who said:

    …just wanted to see who would come on a “white people think they have it worse” thread to say “hey, that’s me”

    White people who cannot afford the luxury of police protection or private security–or those who simply wander down the wrong street–do have it worse than non-whites in the working class neighborhoods of Memphis, New Orleans, Detroit, Atlanta, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, etc. etc. Look at the FBI crime statistics, if you believe in statistics.  Why are whites targeted more often? Because they are the minority in those cities, and the ethnic majorities have been taught for two generations that these whites are their enemies and opressors.

    If you have the money to insulate yourself from this collective resentment, you can rest easy. If you don’t, then racial/cultural profiling can be a useful survival tool. Black thugs, white tweekers, and Asian ninjas are best avoided. You know that as well as I do.

    Sometimes it is safer to stick with birds of your own feather, and I don’t blame anyone for that. Personally, I usually wing it alone, but only the self-righteous would mock someone for joining the herd–or avoiding certain herds–for the purpose of self-preservation.

    • Mysophobe

      The collective resentment you speak of works both ways in many cases, but I’m willing to I agree that certain minority neighborhoods may be less than welcoming to whites. I think it’s important to make a distinction though, between hurt feelings and actual crime. The crime numbers don’t seem to support that whites are statistically in more danger in a minority neighborhood than any other group is there. Comparing the general danger level between a minority neighborhood and a white neighborhood is apples and oranges, and implies some sort of inherent racial causality when more likely poverty is the driving factor. I agree that people have a propensity to organize themselves along racial lines and conspire to commit crimes against other groups. Not sure if any particular race has the market cornered on that front. If you are speaking to racial groups’ tendency to reinforce destructive preconceived notions, I completely agree. I don’t see a minority advantage over whites in this regard either. My contention is that whites and minorities together are far more destructive to minorities than minorities are to whites. Even if i did agree with your premise, I’m still unclear as to what productive end you’re arguing that minorities resent whites as much as whites resent them. I’m sure I missed the gist of your argument on several points, so feel free to elaborate.

      • Mysophobe

        Hmm. I just noticed that there are an awful lot of threads with fabricated FBI statistics and no links to the official FBI page. Not trying to accuse you, just want to be sure we’re both looking at the correct numbers to avoid confusion.

        • TennesseeCyberian

          I assume that you are talking about the last link, correct?  I understand your hesitation, but the statistics are a breakdown, not a fabrication.  The “Color of Crime” study is well-known and oftentimes dismissed or condemned for it’s conclusions, but the base data has never been challenged.  The FBI statistics were simply broken down and analyzed by race.  The mountains of base data are available here:

          http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats

          If you want to see the details of the “Color of Crime” report, the document is available for free as a pdf.  It is slanted and depressing, but the facts themselves are taken directly from FBI statistics for what they are worth.

          • Mysophobe

            I read the summary of the color of crime report, which to be clear is published by a white nationalist group. For the sake of clarification, it appears that the crux of your argument is that: When the effects of POVERTY AND POPULATION DENSITY on violent crime rates are taken into account, the FBI’s statistics prove conclusively that minorities, IN THEIR VERY NATURE, are inherently and drastically more prone to commit violent crime than whites, correct? That there is an undeniable genetic component?

            If this is truly what you choose to believe, I challenge you to offer just one workable political or social solution towards remediating this supposed problem of minorities being GENETICALLY more violent than whites. I saw no real solutions on those white nationalist sites, but I could venture a guess as to the ugly places this horribly flawed thought process could lead. Please tell me you are slightly more reasonable than that.

          • Mysophobe

            I had a chance to peruse the FBI’s official website on my lunchbreak, looking at every bit of statistical information I could find regarding interracial violent crime and general violent crime rates by race. I was not surprised to find that the “statistics” that color of crime used to compile their report are pure horseshit. Almost all of their numbers are off by a factor of 4 or more in favor their own preconclusions. In addition, they weigh their numbers against the general population in a way that can only be meant to deceive. The simple fact is that whites and blacks are equally cruel to each other by any honest measure. Several times you seem to ponder the causes of black resentment against whites. Well look no further than color of change and naive people like you who disseminate their lies. You act like black resentment exists in a vacuum or that it’s cause is unknown, completely oblivious to your own role in the negative feedback loop that has existed longer than you and I’ve been alive. You think that whites should be organizing themselves to protect white culture from the black menace as if that wouldn’t take us straight back to square one. If you, as I do, have a problem with violent crime, fair enough. Support your local police. But you seem to be looking for systemic remedies beyond that. May I suggest you look into the effects of poverty, poor education and drug use on the violent crime rate, which by the way has been dropping for years everywhere in the US, major cities included. Down 5.5% last year alone. Step off of the carousel, fear is the mind killer.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Interesting.  Do me a favor when you have the time.  Send me the link to the base data you looked through (The Color of Crime cites 2005, so send that year), and then explain to me how the numbers are off by a factor of 4.

            As for the diminishing crime rate, that is encouraging.  It puzzles me that it coincides with a sharp increase in street gang membership.  Are gangs becoming peaceful and professional?

            And I understand that black resentment is based on legitimate grievance.  Just not against me.  If some white people want to bear the cross of slavery and civil rights abuse and general racism, I won’t stop them, but I sure as hell will not be joining them.  Nails make my hands sore.

          • Mysophobe

            Seems like you missed it, so I’ll repeat. you personally are responsible for breeding black resentment of whites by disseminating deceptive agenda-driven information painting the majority of blacks as violent criminals. I can post links because I’m apparently still a guest here. Look at page 55 of Age and Race Specific Arrest Rates link on FBI’s main page. There’s also a study of racial crime in four major cities, I’ll have to go back and find it. The main color of crime deception that I referred to is that they extrapolated black-on-white and white-on-black crime numbers to reflect the general population but then neglected to weigh those numbers against general population. That’s where the arrive at their headline-grabbing “blacks are 7 times more likely to rape your poor little white grandmother than she is likely to rape them” or something along those lines. In you very first words to me, you tied me to some mythical liberal brainwashing over a handful of thoughts I expressed. If you don’t want to be tied to white nationalist, you should probably stop linking to their material and to a greater degree, stop talking like a white nationalist. Jared Taylor’s one of the good white nationalists? Durkay. I’d like to avoid your media bias argument because frankly, it’s exhausting. “da things I read in the lame stream media don’t comport with all of my preconceived notions because there’s a concerted effort to deceive me, not because my preconceived notions are…” *barf* dittohead brainwashing, cried wolf too many times on that one. Listen, I’m kinda done holding your hand here to be honest. You’re either willfully ignorant or just plain sadistic, not sure which is worse. Like I said, I’m pretty sure I’m only assisting you in refining your horribly destructive arguments. When you and your buddies finally succeed in igniting the race war you romanticize about, come find me so I can take first crack at you. I’ll be the guy on the other side of the line, wearing my “race traitor” t-shirt.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            You can link by cutting and pasting, then filling out the little form to make sure that you’re not a bot.  That you didn’t simply do that tells me that you are either lying about your research, or you didn’t know how to use the technology.  Now you do.  Prove your point with facts.

            The second set of links above are statistics from the Department of Justice, not a white nationalist site.  The Department is currently run by a black man, you know.  Those statistics show that in all inter-racial homocide cases, black murderers chose whites about 16% of the time and white murderers chose blacks about 6% of the time.  That is almost three times the rate, which is significant.

            I am not fomenting a race war by linking to unpopular facts.  I never claimed that a majority of blacks are violent criminals, only that black-on-white violent crime is more prevalent than the reverse.  My comparison of Jared Taylor to Malcolm X in his Nation of Islam days–a racist organization which claimed that whites are the result of an ancient genetic experiment gone horribly wrong–but you construed that as my support for Taylor.  I only cite his statistics because he is the only one who provided a scholarly expose of inter-racial violence in recent times.

            You avoided the recent spat of black teen “flash mobs,” you never commented on the Christian-Newsom case, and you never addressed the Russ Kick article.  You simply attempted to smear my character and spouted off sloppy analyses.  Then you challenged me to racially motivated battle.

            I know that thinking is exhausting for you, so I’ll stop asking you to.  You are now free to go play “Tea Party Zombies Must Die” with no sense of irony.  It seems suited for you.

          • Mysophobe

            Thanks for the tip, slick. After much soul searching, I realized I owe you an apology. Your own rudimentary, and Taylor’s more convoluted interpretation of those cold statistics are rock-solid. You’ve both taken into account the fact that most crimes are crimes of opportunity (not necessarily racially motivated) and de-facto segregation (white people everywhere, blacks comparatively concentrated) results in blacks encountering whites somewhere around 18 times more often than vice-verse. Given these revelations, which I don’t revel in(ha!): I have to agree that people must be told the true story, lest they are lulled into a false sense of security regarding the black problem. We must highlight every gruesome detail of heinous black on white crimes, with special focus on those involving white women, old people or the mentally challenged. Be sure to use words like “animal” and “savage” to describe the perp. Simultaneously, we must assure the public that white on black crimes are committed only by concerned citizens who didn’t realize it was illegal. I’m convinced, like you, that the statistics bear out that the races have no ability to peacefully co-exist and must live separately, but we shouldn’t tell that to people until we gain their confidence. Taylor’s conclusions about black genetic inferiority should be treated similarly, even though the truth of it is there for all to see. True story: when I talk with my black friends about these views, they usually say “yeah, you sure got our number”. Surprising how many of them totally get it! But I digress. Like I said, I owe you big time for straightening me out. This thread seems kinda dead, so I suggest we divide up and get the truth out. The world needs to hear this stuff. So tired of black being portrayed in the media as all big furry law abiding teddy bears when in reality they are one of the greatest threats to our nation and our proud white culture. I’m ready to scream it from the rooftops! “Wake up, white people!”, that’s what I’ll scream. I’m psyched. Should we hug, or is there a special handshake or something? Alright. Go get the word out, and don’t forget to tell em Jared Taylor sent ya!

            Speaking of which, we need to get someone to fix Jared Taylor’s wiki page, liberal droppings all over it, what about “moderate white nationalist” don’t they get?

          • TennesseeCyberian

            The majority of blacks are law-abiding citizens.  The majority of whites are probably not racist.  The majority of Muslims will not be blowing anyone up in their lives.  And the majority of liberals (hopefully) are not as shallow and spiteful as you are.

            Your sarcasm is a thin mask for your ignorance.  Your assumptions about me are completely unfounded (I never even mentioned segregation or called anyone an “animal”–that was all you.)  I hope you reserve your close-minded douchebaggery for the Internet and actually act like somebody in the real world.

          • Mysophobe

            Jared Taylor’s conclusions are central to your arguments.  The Christian Newsom murders you brought up and others like it are also part of Taylor’s anecdotal evidence that supposedly supports those conclusions.  Taylor’s long-held beliefs and motivations  are well documented, and to make the claim that they don’t color his “reasearch” in the extreme is the height of naiveté on your part.  I understand you would like to distance yourself from him now, but don’t expect me to forget that you engaged me on the Jared Taylor front as a jumping off point for the rest of your screed.  It should be apparent to anyone else that, when pressed for clarification, your misguided proposals are a sanitized version of Taylor’s own.  This leaves me to conclude that either you are too intellectually lazy to understand your own agenda, or more likely you are dishonestly attempting to mainstream a frankly contemptuous agenda.  I think the truth is that I’ve been right about you all along.  Your tacit acceptance of inaccurate portrayals of minorities in the liberal media you abhor probably had a lot to do with it, but I’m guessing there is somerthing much deeper and personal to you that left you so pathetically suggestible to begin with.  Whatever the reasons, you are obviously drawn to the white nationalist agenda and their propaganda.  The sad irony is that you are fixated on black resentment of whites, all the while espousing the very same propaganda that has fomented it in America since our inception.  Nothing could be less “revolutionary” than your agenda, predating the American progressive movement by centuries.  I find the fact that you had no idea that the crime has been on the decline for a decade very telling.  This good news has been all over the liberal media.  To me, it’s an indication that our country is beginning to heal from the damage that your white nationalist predecessors contributed to.  I understand you are disturbed by the concerted effort to shame whites like you into sitting down and shutting up, but it’s obviously working.  If you feelings are hurt, I honestly couldn’t care less. Despite your paranoia white culture, gift to the world that it is, isn’t going anywhere. Feel free to go start your NAAWP or your white entertainment channel (not one of those yet), but If you choose to act like children and present children’s simplistic arguments and perspectives, you will be treated as such.  The rest of us are trying to have a society here.  

            I’d like to retract one thing I said. I said that blacks and whites are equally cruel to each other.  The more I look at the numbers you provided and take into account non-violent, organized and institutionalized crime against blacks,  it’s clear that whites are much more cruel to blacks by any honest measure.  But we’re getting better.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            You have consistently taken me out of context, or else made up some fictional platform that I am speaking from.  As you insult me again and again, it occurs to me that you may be borderline retarded, but more likely, you are too fired up on your own ego to say anything that reflects your potential intelligence.

            I never claimed to follow Jared Taylor, but I also never tried to distance myself from his statistical findings.  You made both of those things up.  You make many things up.  You are incapable of debating me, so you use creative writing to cover your lack of intellectual underpinnings.  That’s fine, that’s a typical tactic on the street and the Internet.  The difference is, even pussies can do that on the Internet.

            I gave you the facts.  I am ashamed of nothing I have said.  I am not trying to foment hate, but to point out that hate exists on all sides, is destructive from all sides, and more on some sides than others in certain respects.  Never once did I try to conceal my own motives or opinions. 

            Until next time, keep trying to think.

          • Danny Cassidy

            if you are suggesting that diversity doesn’t work, you are completely wrong. Seriously, we are all living in harmony in our multicultural countries. It’s exciting, and fullfilling. We get to eat all sorts of different ethnic foods and spend time out at different cultural events with an ethnic focus…

            lol, jk I’m just kidding man, diversity obviously doesn’t work, I don’t know what these cracks are thinking.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            To me, the question of whether diversity is workable or not is still unanswered.  There is more to gain from other cultures than good food–there is artwork, there is history, there is wisdom.  But it is very clear to me that multiculturalism comes with some serious problems, and it is bothersome that discussing this problem is either ridiculed or forbidden.

            I will have a look at these links.  Whoever got anus.com must have bought that domain early on, eh?

          • Danny Cassidy

            if you want some more interesting writing check out amerika.org, or anus.com. the blogs have some interesting insights, and unlike amren, you don’t have to pay to read them.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Page 55 of that report does not give a breakdown of violent inter-racial crime by race.  The Color of Crime breaks down all violent crimes by race, analyzes the inter-racial crimes by percentage, and comes out showing that black-on-white violent crime is much more prevalent than the reverse.  The base percentage is already high, but given that whites are 72% of the population and blacks are 13%, the black rate is much higher per capita.

            Again, I do not revel in this.  You trivialized black-on-white violence, and I showed you the most accurate facts from the Department of Justice that I am aware of (linked above.)  You responded, as usual, with insults and threats.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Did you look at this:
            http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

            Or this:
            http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/ovracetab.cfm

            Whites are 72% of the US population.  Blacks are 13%.  According to these homocide statistics (not overall violent crime, as the Color of Crime details), black-on-white murder was 8.8% of all homocides in 2005, white-on-black was 3.2%.  Given the disproportion in population, that would mean that your claim of equal cruelty is false to some degree.  Besides, wasn’t your argument that whites have been more cruel throughout history?  Do you make an exception, then, for recent history?

            I don’t pretend to know the solution, but at least one of the problems is pretty clear.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            I told you up front what sort of publication and organization were responsible for the second and fourth links.  I am not a white nationalist.  I am loyal to my friends and family, and not according to their heredity.  But I believe in the freedom of association and the freedom of speech.  If you can respect Malcolm X before his break with the Nation of Islam, there is no reason to dismiss Jared Taylor.

            No, I do not believe that minorities are more prone to crime because of genetic predisposition, and no, I do not entirely discount poverty or population density.  There are some traits which tend to follow genetic lines, but if genes are responsible for intelligence, compassion, gentle demeanor, or loyalty, then they are present in every race in my experience.  To greater or lesser degrees?  I don’t know, and genetics is entirely too young to detail the demographics of character, so I take all hypotheses as being unprovable at this time.

            That said, I do not believe that poverty is the sole cause of disproportionate black-on-white violent crime.  I believe that anti-white rhetoric is responsible for much of the anti-white violence.  If you believe that hate speech has real social effects, then it might concern you that sing-alongs like Dr. Dre’s “The Day the Niggaz Took Over” (like so much of the gansta rap of the late 80s and 90s) are an overt encouragement to rob and loot the white man–and that’s on the pop end of the spectrum.  When you couple the widespread historical grievances against white people as a group with the aggressive rhetoric of the Nation of Islam, La Raza, the New Black Panthers, and popular gangsta tunes, it resonates with minority anger, and anger coupled with poverty leads to violence.  The people of India are extremely poor, but not nearly as violent.  Why?  Because they are not filled with hate to the same degree as today’s American black man.

            I would like to see this anti-white rhetoric ended, or at the least, a level playing field where whites can defend themselves.  Even more, I look forward to the day when the sons of slave-owners and the sons of indentured servants are seen as separate cultural and/or blood lines.  Considering the fact that less than 10% of Southern whites owned slaves, I think that the concept of inherited white guilt is a myth that is exploited to pit blacks against whites.  Considering the accumulated body count of black-on-white murders since the 1960s–a mere fraction of white-on-black murders, including all hate crimes–I would say the score is even. 

            It’s time to bury the hatchet.  And not in my lily white skull.

      • TennesseeCyberian

        I have researched these hate crime statistics, and while I am open to the possiblity that the proportions of crimes commited solely on the basis of hate may be reflected in the statistics, it should be noted that hate crime laws were created for the purpose of protecting minorities, not whites.  Hence, these examples have been passed over:

        From Disinfo’s own Russ Kick in the late 90s:
        http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/hatecrimes.html

        A round up of the more recent phenomenon of black teen “flash mobs”:
        http://takimag.com/article/the_memorial_day_mobs/print#axzz1X9IVZeFN

        The Christian-Newsom case is close to home for me, and was not charged as a hate crime:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

        A breakdown of 2005 FBI crime statistics by race (note that with violent crime, whites choose black victims 3% of the time, blacks choose whites 45% of the time):
        http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html

        Just as hate crime prosecution is set up to protect minorities (and therefore the results are somewhat suspect to me), you may find that the organization of these facts by right-leaning publications in the second and fourth examples are also skewed.  The facts are reported correctly, but the motivation to report is based in white interests, so take it for what it’s worth.

        You ask why I even mention it.  As shifting demographics continue to push whites out of the majority and the mainstream media continues to neglect reports of disproportionate black-on-white and Hispanic-on-white crime, whites have a right to stand up for their own self-protection.  I have no desire to feed into white paranoia, which is certainly real.  I also don’t want to feed into unnecessary stereotypes or bigotry, as the overwhelming majority of my interactions with blacks, whites, reds, or people in general have been either very positive or uneventful.  Still, a signficant minority of any group (racial, cultural, or religious) may behave in a repugnant fashion, and if we are going to condemn racist tendencies, then that condemnation should be across the board.

        • Mysophobe

          Well shit. Now I’m frankly embarrassed that I was ever civil to you. You got too comfortable in the last 24 hrs and gave yourself away. I’m more than a little disappointed with myself that I doubted my own instincts as to your true motives. It’s obvious that you are not here for honest debate of any kind, and I fear that engaging you further will only serve to help you to hone your frankly insidious and destructive arguments. One parting thought: Discounting all the white-hate-group-serving fabricated FBI statistics you’ve thrown at me, the bulk of your evidence seems to be anecdotal. I read your awkward attempted courtship of Madheirophant and your attack of Tunaghost’s ethnicity and it’s clear that you are somewhat socially retarded when it comes to interacting with minorities. That, coupled with your incredibly condescending attitude (which you strangely seem surprisingly unaware of) leads me to believe that much of the supposed friction you have experienced with minorities is of your own making. In other words: maybe it’s not the world that’s crazy, maybe it’s you.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Sorry you were ever civil?  Well, then continue being uncivil.  It’s the Internet, you don’t ever have to take real responsibility for your repugnance.

            White hate group?  At which point did you identify hate speech?  Quote it.  Fabricated FBI statistics?  Then show me the real statistics.  What did the New Century Foundation get wrong?  I haven’t found any analyst who challenges the base data.  I am always open to debunking and correction, but not just ’cause you said so.  These studies don’t please me–they concern me.

            And courtship?  Really?  It’s the fucking Internet, man, I’m not trying to make lifelong friends.  Are you?  I like comments sections because it gives people a chance to share views and perhaps take them out into the real world.  So let me share another view before I go.

            I (perhaps rudely) called yours and Tuna Ghost’s diatribes “liberal brainwashing” because in my experience many liberals–like neo-cons, fundamentalists, and children–cling to ideologies in the face of contradicting facts.  Just as the medieval Christians would not tolerate heretical views and would burn the scapegoat as a “witch”, many liberals cling to a multicultural doctrine that allows for no dissent, and any whiff of contradiction to their cherished views send them into a birage of crass insults–or else litigation–which generally leads to someone branded as “racist,” “Tea-bagger,” and perhaps one day, “thought criminal.”

            Look through your comments.  How many times did you use personal anecdotes or mockery to get your point across?  How many times did you use facts?  Think long and hard about that.

            You say that I’m “socially retarded” and assume that I experience friction with other races, but that is simply not true.  Did you forget that you don’t know me?  I work, live, and do my shopping with blacks and Latinos every day.  My only tension with black friends tends to revolve around what shows are funny and what music is enjoyable.  They are have no problem acknowledging the dangerous criminal element seething in the ghettos–why should you get bent out of shape?  You don’t get it, and you won’t until you leave the chip on your shoulder behind with your fantasies of who you think I am away from this keyboard.

            Don’t be spiteful, man.  If you disagree with me, then challenge me with facts, not childish names.

    • Mysophobe

      By saying that whites have it worse, crime wise, than minorities do in dangerous neighborhoods in the cities you mention, you must be assuming that minority-on-white and white-on-white crime per capita is greater than minority-on-minority and white-on-minority crime per capita. That seems suspect to me considering that black-on-black crime is rampant, but I’d certainly like to see a link. If you are making the case that minority neighborhoods can be dangerous to everyone regardless of race, of course I agree. If you are making the leap that they are dangerous places precisely because minorities live there and minorities are inherently dangerous people, I’m afraid I can’t follow you. If you are speaking to racially motivated crime specifically, and for lack of a better source, the FBI’s hate crime statistics tell a different tale:

      In 2009, law enforcement agencies reported that 3,816 single-bias hate crime offenses were racially motivated. Of these offenses:

      71.4 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
      17.1 percent resulted from anti-white bias.

  • Rollem4me2

    Screw Humanity, all colors shapes and sizes!

  • Rollem4me2

    Screw Humanity, all colors shapes and sizes!

  • Mysophobe

    I am definitely an asshole, but I’ll just have to take you at your word that you are as well. Despite how I come across, this thread did cause me to challenge myself and question what motivates me with regards to race. Of course it bothers me that ANY human being is discriminated against based on superficialities, but I also understand that discrimination is far less damaging on an individual basis without the power and cultural structures to back it up. I stand by everything I said before you called me a dupe, apologies for my shenanigans after that. I’ll check out the new thread.

  • Mysophobe

    I am definitely an asshole, but I’ll just have to take you at your word that you are as well. Despite how I come across, this thread did cause me to challenge myself and question what motivates me with regards to race. Of course it bothers me that ANY human being is discriminated against based on superficialities, but I also understand that discrimination is far less damaging on an individual basis without the power and cultural structures to back it up. I stand by everything I said before you called me a dupe, apologies for my shenanigans after that. I’ll check out the new thread.

  • Anonymous

    When confronted by unfriendly people of *any* ethnicity, black included, I just assume that individual is a douchebag instead of concluding that it stems from some racial attribute. Assuming the worst of people based on stereotypes is a quick way to needlessly make enemies.

  • Mysophobe

    The collective resentment you speak of works both ways in many cases, but I’m willing to I agree that certain minority neighborhoods may be less than welcoming to whites. I think it’s important to make a distinction though, between hurt feelings and actual crime. The crime numbers don’t seem to support that whites are statistically in more danger in a minority neighborhood than any other group is there. Comparing the general danger level between a minority neighborhood and a white neighborhood is apples and oranges, and implies some sort of inherent racial causality when more likely poverty is the driving factor. I agree that people have a propensity to organize themselves along racial lines and conspire to commit crimes against other groups. Not sure if any particular race has the market cornered on that front. If you are speaking to racial groups’ tendency to reinforce destructive preconceived notions, I completely agree. I don’t see a minority advantage over whites in this regard either. My contention is that whites and minorities together are far more destructive to minorities than minorities are to whites. Even if i did agree with your premise, I’m still unclear as to what productive end you’re arguing that minorities resent whites as much as whites resent them. I’m sure I missed the gist of your argument on several points, so feel free to elaborate.

  • Mysophobe

    By saying that whites have it worse, crime wise, than minorities do in dangerous neighborhoods in the cities you mention, you must be assuming that minority-on-white and white-on-white crime per capita is greater than minority-on-minority and white-on-minority crime per capita. That seems suspect to me considering that black-on-black crime is rampant, but I’d certainly like to see a link. If you are making the case that minority neighborhoods can be dangerous to everyone regardless of race, of course I agree. If you are making the leap that they are dangerous places precisely because minorities live there and minorities are inherently dangerous people, I’m afraid I can’t follow you. If you are speaking to racially motivated crime specifically, and for lack of a better source, the FBI’s hate crime statistics tell a different tale:

    In 2009, law enforcement agencies reported that 3,816 single-bias hate crime offenses were racially motivated. Of these offenses:

    71.4 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
    17.1 percent resulted from anti-white bias.

  • Tuna Ghost

    No, I just have a disease that keeps me from watching anything with a young Matthew Broderick.  It donate towards the research, but we’re still years away.  I may never get to watch Biloxi Blues.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    i’m not benifitting from our white rulers. 

    Not from the rulers, but from the system that has been in place for centuries.  You get stopped less than minorities while driving, your credit rating will on average be higher, you’ll have an easier time buying a house in the neighborhood you want, an easier time getting loans from banks, etc. etc.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    I’m quite comfortable talking about race with intelligent people.

    Mmm hmmmm.  As can be seen throughout the comments section.

  • Mysophobe

    Hmm. I just noticed that there are an awful lot of threads with fabricated FBI statistics and no links to the official FBI page. Not trying to accuse you, just want to be sure we’re both looking at the correct numbers to avoid confusion.

  • Tuna Ghost

    I believe she’s half black on her biological father’s side, but I could be mistaken.  Kil Ja Kim’s is an extreme perspective, but I provided it show you that not all minorities are down with white anti-racists.  Some think anti-racism shouldn’t be offered to non-minorities since it gives them a chance to subvert the vocabulary, the actions, and the very ideas.  

    At any rate, your reaction to her stuff is fairly typical and unfortunately only strengthens her arguments (most of which you’ve misunderstood anyway, but whatever).  Simply put, white people don’t deserve a cookie for not being racist, as many are wont to assume.  

    Your reactions are a wonderful example of what happens when white supremacy is challenged, and why the fight for equality is so difficult.  So many white people don’t even see their own prejudices or the power structures that enable them, so instead of just listening they make the argument all about themselves.

  • Tuna Ghost

    I respect you more than I ever could the race-crusading (and presumably Asian) Tuna Ghost

    Ignoring statements to the contrary to strengthen your narrative that has yourself as the persecuted?  How…surprising.  Your assumptions speak volumes about your ideas of race, btw.  

  • JoJoDancer

    I have researched these hate crime statistics, and while I am open to the possiblity that the proportions of crimes commited solely on the basis of hate may be reflected in the statistics, it should be noted that hate crime laws were created for the purpose of protecting minorities, not whites.  Hence, these examples have been passed over:

    From Disinfo’s own Russ Kick in the late 90s:
    http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/hatecrimes.html

    A round up of the more recent phenomenon of black teen “flash mobs”:
    http://takimag.com/article/the_memorial_day_mobs/print#axzz1X9IVZeFN

    The Christian-Newsom case is close to home for me, and was not charged as a hate crime:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

    A breakdown of 2005 FBI crime statistics by race (note that with violent crime, whites choose black victims 3% of the time, blacks choose whites 45% of the time):
    http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html

    Just as hate crime prosecution is set up to protect minorities (and therefore the results are somewhat suspect to me), you may find that the organization of these facts by right-leaning publications in the second and fourth examples are also skewed.  The facts are reported correctly, but the motivation to report is based in white interests, so take it for what it’s worth.

    You ask why I even mention it.  As shifting demographics continue to push whites out of the majority and the mainstream media continues to neglect reports of disproportionate black-on-white and Hispanic-on-white crime, whites have a right to stand up for their own self-protection.  I have no desire to feed into white paranoia, which is certainly real.  I also don’t want to feed into unnecessary stereotypes or bigotry, as the overwhelming majority of my interactions with blacks, whites, reds, or people in general have been either very positive or uneventful.  Still, a signficant minority of any group (racial, cultural, or religious) may behave in a repugnant fashion, and if we are going to condemn racist tendencies, then that condemnation should be across the board.

  • JoJoDancer

    I don’t necessarily mean racial stereotypes, but that’s included.  It is oftentimes said that stereotypes exist for a reason, and I agree.  Most stereotypes aren’t negative:  Christians don’t swear, blacks are good dancers, Latinos are very tight with their families.  They tend to be true, with plenty of exeptions.

    The negative stereotypes also have many exceptions, but also tend to be true:  Christians are generally unable to debate existential questions beyon their own dogma, blacks wearing gansta attire in a bad neighborhood will probably fuck you up, and many Latino immigrants to America have no respect for the host culture from which they benefit.  That’s what I mean.

    Stereotypes are simple-minded, so I see them for their limitation.  They are also shallow, so any chance I have to engage someone on a deeper level, I generally find such stereotypes to be irrelavant, but nevertheless true.

    Myself, I’m somewhere between SWPL and Larry the Cable Guy.  It won’t offend me if you make fun of my cutoff tshirt, man.  Or my uneven sunburn.

  • JoJoDancer

    Don’t be a patronizing bitch, please.  You continually hit me with ad hominem attacks, accusing me of being uncomfortable with the subject matter, continually saying that my statements reveal some underlying motive, and you avoid speaking directly to what I’m talking about.  I may not have been entirely graceful, but you have consistently ignored my attempts at civility.  You’ve done everything but call me a racist.

    I don’t doubt your intelligence, Tuna Ghost, but you have a long way to go in the discourse department.  Good luck, keep writing, and do try to read and comprehend before responding.  Until next time.

  • JoJoDancer

    I assume that you are talking about the last link, correct?  I understand your hesitation, but the statistics are a breakdown, not a fabrication.  The “Color of Crime” study is well-known and oftentimes dismissed or condemned for it’s conclusions, but the base data has never been challenged.  The FBI statistics were simply broken down and analyzed by race.  The mountains of base data are available here:

    http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats

    If you want to see the details of the “Color of Crime” report, the document is available for free as a pdf.  It is slanted and depressing, but the facts themselves are taken directly from FBI statistics for what they are worth.

  • JoJoDancer

    Before I go, answer these questions, please, using specifics instead of general dismissal.

    How did my reaction strengthen her argument in any way?

    Which part did you want me to understand that you believe I did not understand?

    Not only did I listen, I poured over her amateur essay just for you, Tuna Ghost.  You have not responded to any of my concerns about Kil Ja Kim’s anti-white ethnocentric rant.  If you would like to now, I will be glad to hear what you have to say, though I’ll hold my response unless you have a question.

  • Mysophobe

    Well shit. Now I’m frankly embarrassed that I was ever civil to you. You got too comfortable in the last 24 hrs and gave yourself away. I’m more than a little disappointed with myself that I doubted my own instincts as to your true motives. It’s obvious that you are not here for honest debate of any kind, and I fear that engaging you further will only serve to help you to hone your frankly insidious and destructive arguments. One parting thought: Discounting all the white-hate-group-serving fabricated FBI statistics you’ve thrown at me, the bulk of your evidence seems to be anecdotal. I read your awkward attempted courtship of Madheirophant and your attack of Tunaghost’s ethnicity and it’s clear that you are somewhat socially retarded when it comes to interacting with minorities. That, coupled with your incredibly condescending attitude (which you strangely seem surprisingly unaware of) leads me to believe that much of the supposed friction you have experienced with minorities is of your own making. In other words: maybe it’s not the world that’s crazy, maybe it’s you.

  • Mysophobe

    I read the summary of the color of crime report, which to be clear is published by a white nationalist group. For the sake of clarification, it appears that the crux of your argument is that: When the effects of POVERTY AND POPULATION DENSITY on violent crime rates are taken into account, the FBI’s statistics prove conclusively that minorities, IN THEIR VERY NATURE, are inherently and drastically more prone to commit violent crime than whites, correct? That there is an undeniable genetic component?

    If this is truly what you choose to believe, I challenge you to offer just one workable political or social solution towards remediating this supposed problem of minorities being GENETICALLY more violent than whites. I saw no real solutions on those white nationalist sites, but I could venture a guess as to the ugly places this horribly flawed thought process could lead. Please tell me you are slightly more reasonable than that.

  • Mysaodj

    These are the rules you mentioned I referenced them:

     “When a white person discriminates, it is enabled by this system and also helps perpetuate it.  This is not true when a minority acts on prejudice.  If minorities acing on prejudice is “racism”, then we need a new word for what white people do because it is not the same.  The effects aren’t the same, the vulnerabilities aren’t the same, and the power dynamic isn’t the same.  ”

    You are saying that different standards or rules should be applied to different races.  I am saying this is moot because we are all interracial at some point.  Regarding interracial people, I am asking you how your rules apply to them?

  • JoJoDancer

    Sorry you were ever civil?  Well, then continue being uncivil.  It’s the Internet, you don’t ever have to take real responsibility for your repugnance.

    White hate group?  At which point did you identify hate speech?  Quote it.  Fabricated FBI statistics?  Then show me the real statistics.  What did the New Century Foundation get wrong?  I haven’t found any analyst who challenges the base data.  I am always open to debunking and correction, but not just ’cause you said so.  These studies don’t please me–they concern me.

    And courtship?  Really?  It’s the fucking Internet, man, I’m not trying to make lifelong friends.  Are you?  I like comments sections because it gives people a chance to share views and perhaps take them out into the real world.  So let me share another view before I go.

    I (perhaps rudely) called yours and Tuna Ghost’s diatribes “liberal brainwashing” because in my experience many liberals–like neo-cons, fundamentalists, and children–cling to ideologies in the face of contradicting facts.  Just as the medieval Christians would not tolerate heretical views and would burn the scapegoat as a “witch”, many liberals cling to a multicultural doctrine that allows for no dissent, and any whiff of contradiction to their cherished views send them into a birage of crass insults–or else litigation–which generally leads to someone branded as “racist,” “Tea-bagger,” and perhaps one day, “thought criminal.”

    Look through your comments.  How many times did you use personal anecdotes or mockery to get your point across?  How many times did you use facts?  Think long and hard about that.

    You say that I’m “socially retarded” and assume that I experience friction with other races, but that is simply not true.  Did you forget that you don’t know me?  I work, live, and do my shopping with blacks and Latinos every day.  My only tension with black friends tends to revolve around what shows are funny and what music is enjoyable.  They are have no problem acknowledging the dangerous criminal element seething in the ghettos–why should you get bent out of shape?  You don’t get it, and you won’t until you leave the chip on your shoulder behind with your fantasies of who you think I am away from this keyboard.

    Don’t be spiteful, man.  If you disagree with me, then challenge me with facts, not childish names.

  • Mysophobe

    I had a chance to peruse the FBI’s official website on my lunchbreak, looking at every bit of statistical information I could find regarding interracial violent crime and general violent crime rates by race. I was not surprised to find that the “statistics” that color of crime used to compile their report are pure horseshit. Almost all of their numbers are off by a factor of 4 or more in favor their own preconclusions. In addition, they weigh their numbers against the general population in a way that can only be meant to deceive. The simple fact is that whites and blacks are equally cruel to each other by any honest measure. Several times you seem to ponder the causes of black resentment against whites. Well look no further than color of change and naive people like you who disseminate their lies. You act like black resentment exists in a vacuum or that it’s cause is unknown, completely oblivious to your own role in the negative feedback loop that has existed longer than you and I’ve been alive. You think that whites should be organizing themselves to protect white culture from the black menace as if that wouldn’t take us straight back to square one. If you, as I do, have a problem with violent crime, fair enough. Support your local police. But you seem to be looking for systemic remedies beyond that. May I suggest you look into the effects of poverty, poor education and drug use on the violent crime rate, which by the way has been dropping for years everywhere in the US, major cities included. Down 5.5% last year alone. Step off of the carousel, fear is the mind killer.

  • Mysophobe

    I had a chance to peruse the FBI’s official website on my lunchbreak, looking at every bit of statistical information I could find regarding interracial violent crime and general violent crime rates by race. I was not surprised to find that the “statistics” that color of crime used to compile their report are pure horseshit. Almost all of their numbers are off by a factor of 4 or more in favor their own preconclusions. In addition, they weigh their numbers against the general population in a way that can only be meant to deceive. The simple fact is that whites and blacks are equally cruel to each other by any honest measure. Several times you seem to ponder the causes of black resentment against whites. Well look no further than color of change and naive people like you who disseminate their lies. You act like black resentment exists in a vacuum or that it’s cause is unknown, completely oblivious to your own role in the negative feedback loop that has existed longer than you and I’ve been alive. You think that whites should be organizing themselves to protect white culture from the black menace as if that wouldn’t take us straight back to square one. If you, as I do, have a problem with violent crime, fair enough. Support your local police. But you seem to be looking for systemic remedies beyond that. May I suggest you look into the effects of poverty, poor education and drug use on the violent crime rate, which by the way has been dropping for years everywhere in the US, major cities included. Down 5.5% last year alone. Step off of the carousel, fear is the mind killer.

  • JoJoDancer

    I told you up front what sort of publication and organization were responsible for the second and fourth links.  I am not a white nationalist.  I am loyal to my friends and family, and not according to their heredity.  But I believe in the freedom of association and the freedom of speech.  If you can respect Malcolm X before his break with the Nation of Islam, there is no reason to dismiss Jared Taylor.

    No, I do not believe that minorities are more prone to crime because of genetic predisposition, and no, I do not entirely discount poverty or population density.  There are some traits which tend to follow genetic lines, but if genes are responsible for intelligence, compassion, gentle demeanor, or loyalty, then they are present in every race in my experience.  To greater or lesser degrees?  I don’t know, and genetics is entirely too young to detail the demographics of character, so I take all hypotheses as being unprovable at this time.

    That said, I do not believe that poverty is the sole cause of disproportionate black-on-white violent crime.  I believe that anti-white rhetoric is responsible for much of the anti-white violence.  If you believe that hate speech has real social effects, then it might concern you that sing-alongs like Dr. Dre’s “The Day the Niggaz Took Over” (like so much of the gansta rap of the late 80s and 90s) are an overt encouragement to rob and loot the white man–and that’s on the pop end of the spectrum.  When you couple the widespread historical grievances against white people as a group with the aggressive rhetoric of the Nation of Islam, La Raza, the New Black Panthers, and popular gangsta tunes, it resonates with minority anger, and anger coupled with poverty leads to violence.  The people of India are extremely poor, but not nearly as violent.  Why?  Because they are not filled with hate to the same degree as today’s American black man.

    I would like to see this anti-white rhetoric ended, or at the least, a level playing field where whites can defend themselves.  Even more, I look forward to the day when the sons of slave-owners and the sons of indentured servants are seen as separate cultural and/or blood lines.  Considering the fact that less than 10% of Southern whites owned slaves, I think that the concept of inherited white guilt is a myth that is exploited to pit blacks against whites.  Considering the accumulated body count of black-on-white murders since the 1960s–a mere fraction of white-on-black murders, including all hate crimes–I would say the score is even. 

    It’s time to bury the hatchet.  And not in my lily white skull.

  • JoJoDancer

    Interesting.  Do me a favor when you have the time.  Send me the link to the base data you looked through (The Color of Crime cites 2005, so send that year), and then explain to me how the numbers are off by a factor of 4.

    As for the diminishing crime rate, that is encouraging.  It puzzles me that it coincides with a sharp increase in street gang membership.  Are gangs becoming peaceful and professional?

    And I understand that black resentment is based on legitimate grievance.  Just not against me.  If some white people want to bear the cross of slavery and civil rights abuse and general racism, I won’t stop them, but I sure as hell will not be joining them.  Nails make my hands sore.

  • JoJoDancer

    Did you look at this:
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

    Or this:
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/ovracetab.cfm

    Whites are 72% of the US population.  Blacks are 13%.  According to these homocide statistics (not overall violent crime, as the Color of Crime details), black-on-white murder was 8.8% of all homocides in 2005, white-on-black was 3.2%.  Given the disproportion in population, that would mean that your claim of equal cruelty is false to some degree.  Besides, wasn’t your argument that whites have been more cruel throughout history?  Do you make an exception, then, for recent history?

    I don’t pretend to know the solution, but at least one of the problems is pretty clear.

  • Mysophobe

    Seems like you missed it, so I’ll repeat. you personally are responsible for breeding black resentment of whites by disseminating deceptive agenda-driven information painting the majority of blacks as violent criminals. I can post links because I’m apparently still a guest here. Look at page 55 of Age and Race Specific Arrest Rates link on FBI’s main page. There’s also a study of racial crime in four major cities, I’ll have to go back and find it. The main color of crime deception that I referred to is that they extrapolated black-on-white and white-on-black crime numbers to reflect the general population but then neglected to weigh those numbers against general population. That’s where the arrive at their headline-grabbing “blacks are 7 times more likely to rape your poor little white grandmother than she is likely to rape them” or something along those lines. In you very first words to me, you tied me to some mythical liberal brainwashing over a handful of thoughts I expressed. If you don’t want to be tied to white nationalist, you should probably stop linking to their material and to a greater degree, stop talking like a white nationalist. Jared Taylor’s one of the good white nationalists? Durkay. I’d like to avoid your media bias argument because frankly, it’s exhausting. “da things I read in the lame stream media don’t comport with all of my preconceived notions because there’s a concerted effort to deceive me, not because my preconceived notions are…” *barf* dittohead brainwashing, cried wolf too many times on that one. Listen, I’m kinda done holding your hand here to be honest. You’re either willfully ignorant or just plain sadistic, not sure which is worse. Like I said, I’m pretty sure I’m only assisting you in refining your horribly destructive arguments. When you and your buddies finally succeed in igniting the race war you romanticize about, come find me so I can take first crack at you. I’ll be the guy on the other side of the line, wearing my “race traitor” t-shirt.

  • JoJoDancer

    You can link by cutting and pasting, then filling out the little form to make sure that you’re not a bot.  That you didn’t simply do that tells me that you are either lying about your research, or you didn’t know how to use the technology.  Now you do.  Prove your point with facts.

    The second set of links above are statistics from the Department of Justice, not a white nationalist site.  The Department is currently run by a black man, you know.  Those statistics show that in all inter-racial homocide cases, black murderers chose whites about 16% of the time and white murderers chose blacks about 6% of the time.  That is almost three times the rate, which is significant.

    I am not fomenting a race war by linking to unpopular facts.  I never claimed that a majority of blacks are violent criminals, only that black-on-white violent crime is more prevalent than the reverse.  My comparison of Jared Taylor to Malcolm X in his Nation of Islam days–a racist organization which claimed that whites are the result of an ancient genetic experiment gone horribly wrong–but you construed that as my support for Taylor.  I only cite his statistics because he is the only one who provided a scholarly expose of inter-racial violence in recent times.

    You avoided the recent spat of black teen “flash mobs,” you never commented on the Christian-Newsom case, and you never addressed the Russ Kick article.  You simply attempted to smear my character and spouted off sloppy analyses.  Then you challenged me to racially motivated battle.

    I know that thinking is exhausting for you, so I’ll stop asking you to.  You are now free to go play “Tea Party Zombies Must Die” with no sense of irony.  It seems suited for you.

  • JoJoDancer

    Page 55 of that report does not give a breakdown of violent inter-racial crime by race.  The Color of Crime breaks down all violent crimes by race, analyzes the inter-racial crimes by percentage, and comes out showing that black-on-white violent crime is much more prevalent than the reverse.  The base percentage is already high, but given that whites are 72% of the population and blacks are 13%, the black rate is much higher per capita.

    Again, I do not revel in this.  You trivialized black-on-white violence, and I showed you the most accurate facts from the Department of Justice that I am aware of (linked above.)  You responded, as usual, with insults and threats.

  • Andrew

    Could you explain exactly how one person’s guilt and self-hatred can negatively affect the relationships between other people?

  • ….

    In the white/black racial cycle it seems that there is more open aggressive racism toward whites and more  manipulative racism toward blacks. Which is all perpetuated. I.E. a black guy walks around in a white area (from what I’ve seen in the “north”) they won’t be hassled, but in a white guy walks around in black area he will be berated with what you doing here white boy or cracker. Now looking from the outside in disregarding the past, both cracker and nigger are racial slurs and to use either should be considered racist. I’ve never seen a white person yell out nigger to a black person, but countless times have i heard black people yell cracker at white people. Yes the past is tragic and unfair but rather than use the past as an excuse to berate others use it as a learning experience that all conflict is just more problems and to get past it treat everyone as humans not races… its not like you see different breeds of dogs not liking other breeds they’re all dogs, and we’re all humans so lets live like that. And if you see another person being racist merely realize they are the one that is psychologically stunted due to their own racist upbringing.

  • ….

    In the white/black racial cycle it seems that there is more open aggressive racism toward whites and more  manipulative racism toward blacks. Which is all perpetuated. I.E. a black guy walks around in a white area (from what I’ve seen in the “north”) they won’t be hassled, but in a white guy walks around in black area he will be berated with what you doing here white boy or cracker. Now looking from the outside in disregarding the past, both cracker and nigger are racial slurs and to use either should be considered racist. I’ve never seen a white person yell out nigger to a black person, but countless times have i heard black people yell cracker at white people. Yes the past is tragic and unfair but rather than use the past as an excuse to berate others use it as a learning experience that all conflict is just more problems and to get past it treat everyone as humans not races… its not like you see different breeds of dogs not liking other breeds they’re all dogs, and we’re all humans so lets live like that. And if you see another person being racist merely realize they are the one that is psychologically stunted due to their own racist upbringing.

  • Mysophobe

    Thanks for the tip, slick. After much soul searching, I realized I owe you an apology. Your own rudimentary, and Taylor’s more convoluted interpretation of those cold statistics are rock-solid. You’ve both taken into account the fact that most crimes are crimes of opportunity (not necessarily racially motivated) and de-facto segregation (white people everywhere, blacks comparatively concentrated) results in blacks encountering whites somewhere around 18 times more often than vice-verse. Given these revelations, which I don’t revel in(ha!): I have to agree that people must be told the true story, lest they are lulled into a false sense of security regarding the black problem. We must highlight every gruesome detail of heinous black on white crimes, with special focus on those involving white women, old people or the mentally challenged. Be sure to use words like “animal” and “savage” to describe the perp. Simultaneously, we must assure the public that white on black crimes are committed only by concerned citizens who didn’t realize it was illegal. I’m convinced, like you, that the statistics bear out that the races have no ability to peacefully co-exist and must live separately, but we shouldn’t tell that to people until we gain their confidence. Taylor’s conclusions about black genetic inferiority should be treated similarly, even though the truth of it is there for all to see. True story: when I talk with my black friends about these views, they usually say “yeah, you sure got our number”. Surprising how many of them totally get it! But I digress. Like I said, I owe you big time for straightening me out. This thread seems kinda dead, so I suggest we divide up and get the truth out. The world needs to hear this stuff. So tired of black being portrayed in the media as all big furry law abiding teddy bears when in reality they are one of the greatest threats to our nation and our proud white culture. I’m ready to scream it from the rooftops! “Wake up, white people!”, that’s what I’ll scream. I’m psyched. Should we hug, or is there a special handshake or something? Alright. Go get the word out, and don’t forget to tell em Jared Taylor sent ya!

    Speaking of which, we need to get someone to fix Jared Taylor’s wiki page, liberal droppings all over it, what about “moderate white nationalist” don’t they get?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

    You need to file a race discrimination complaint and take it to court.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

    Did they also survey Christians and heterosexuals?  They really have a hard time of it these days.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

    Did they also survey Christians and heterosexuals?  They really have a hard time of it these days.

  • JoJoDancer

    The majority of blacks are law-abiding citizens.  The majority of whites are probably not racist.  The majority of Muslims will not be blowing anyone up in their lives.  And the majority of liberals (hopefully) are not as shallow and spiteful as you are.

    Your sarcasm is a thin mask for your ignorance.  Your assumptions about me are completely unfounded (I never even mentioned segregation or called anyone an “animal”–that was all you.)  I hope you reserve your close-minded douchebaggery for the Internet and actually act like somebody in the real world.

  • JoJoDancer

    The majority of blacks are law-abiding citizens.  The majority of whites are probably not racist.  The majority of Muslims will not be blowing anyone up in their lives.  And the majority of liberals (hopefully) are not as shallow and spiteful as you are.

    Your sarcasm is a thin mask for your ignorance.  Your assumptions about me are completely unfounded (I never even mentioned segregation or called anyone an “animal”–that was all you.)  I hope you reserve your close-minded douchebaggery for the Internet and actually act like somebody in the real world.

  • Mysophobe

    Jared Taylor’s conclusions are central to your arguments.  The Christian Newsom murders you brought up and others like it are also part of Taylor’s anecdotal evidence that supposedly supports those conclusions.  Taylor’s long-held beliefs and motivations  are well documented, and to make the claim that they don’t color his “reasearch” in the extreme is the height of naiveté on your part.  I understand you would like to distance yourself from him now, but don’t expect me to forget that you engaged me on the Jared Taylor front as a jumping off point for the rest of your screed.  It should be apparent to anyone else that, when pressed for clarification, your misguided proposals are a sanitized version of Taylor’s own.  This leaves me to conclude that either you are too intellectually lazy to understand your own agenda, or more likely you are dishonestly attempting to mainstream a frankly contemptuous agenda.  I think the truth is that I’ve been right about you all along.  Your tacit acceptance of inaccurate portrayals of minorities in the liberal media you abhor probably had a lot to do with it, but I’m guessing there is somerthing much deeper and personal to you that left you so pathetically suggestible to begin with.  Whatever the reasons, you are obviously drawn to the white nationalist agenda and their propaganda.  The sad irony is that you are fixated on black resentment of whites, all the while espousing the very same propaganda that has fomented it in America since our inception.  Nothing could be less “revolutionary” than your agenda, predating the American progressive movement by centuries.  I find the fact that you had no idea that the crime has been on the decline for a decade very telling.  This good news has been all over the liberal media.  To me, it’s an indication that our country is beginning to heal from the damage that your white nationalist predecessors contributed to.  I understand you are disturbed by the concerted effort to shame whites like you into sitting down and shutting up, but it’s obviously working.  If you feelings are hurt, I honestly couldn’t care less. Despite your paranoia white culture, gift to the world that it is, isn’t going anywhere. Feel free to go start your NAAWP or your white entertainment channel (not one of those yet), but If you choose to act like children and present children’s simplistic arguments and perspectives, you will be treated as such.  The rest of us are trying to have a society here.  

    I’d like to retract one thing I said. I said that blacks and whites are equally cruel to each other.  The more I look at the numbers you provided and take into account non-violent, organized and institutionalized crime against blacks,  it’s clear that whites are much more cruel to blacks by any honest measure.  But we’re getting better.

  • Mysophobe

    Jared Taylor’s conclusions are central to your arguments.  The Christian Newsom murders you brought up and others like it are also part of Taylor’s anecdotal evidence that supposedly supports those conclusions.  Taylor’s long-held beliefs and motivations  are well documented, and to make the claim that they don’t color his “reasearch” in the extreme is the height of naiveté on your part.  I understand you would like to distance yourself from him now, but don’t expect me to forget that you engaged me on the Jared Taylor front as a jumping off point for the rest of your screed.  It should be apparent to anyone else that, when pressed for clarification, your misguided proposals are a sanitized version of Taylor’s own.  This leaves me to conclude that either you are too intellectually lazy to understand your own agenda, or more likely you are dishonestly attempting to mainstream a frankly contemptuous agenda.  I think the truth is that I’ve been right about you all along.  Your tacit acceptance of inaccurate portrayals of minorities in the liberal media you abhor probably had a lot to do with it, but I’m guessing there is somerthing much deeper and personal to you that left you so pathetically suggestible to begin with.  Whatever the reasons, you are obviously drawn to the white nationalist agenda and their propaganda.  The sad irony is that you are fixated on black resentment of whites, all the while espousing the very same propaganda that has fomented it in America since our inception.  Nothing could be less “revolutionary” than your agenda, predating the American progressive movement by centuries.  I find the fact that you had no idea that the crime has been on the decline for a decade very telling.  This good news has been all over the liberal media.  To me, it’s an indication that our country is beginning to heal from the damage that your white nationalist predecessors contributed to.  I understand you are disturbed by the concerted effort to shame whites like you into sitting down and shutting up, but it’s obviously working.  If you feelings are hurt, I honestly couldn’t care less. Despite your paranoia white culture, gift to the world that it is, isn’t going anywhere. Feel free to go start your NAAWP or your white entertainment channel (not one of those yet), but If you choose to act like children and present children’s simplistic arguments and perspectives, you will be treated as such.  The rest of us are trying to have a society here.  

    I’d like to retract one thing I said. I said that blacks and whites are equally cruel to each other.  The more I look at the numbers you provided and take into account non-violent, organized and institutionalized crime against blacks,  it’s clear that whites are much more cruel to blacks by any honest measure.  But we’re getting better.

  • Mysophobe

    Overlooking your own sensationalism and anecdotal evidence, your south African example doesn’t really tell the entire story. Europeans continuing to steal your resources en masse, take advantage of your people, and pit them against each other while selling them tools of destruction for profit tends to make an indigenous population less than hospitable to the perceived aggressor. I’m not excusing violence, but racial resentment and retribution does not occur in a vacuum. There’s probably a lesson in there for America somewhere…

  • Yomomma

    I think you need to loosen your sisters jeans so you can pull your head out of your ass.

  • Yomomma

    I think you need to loosen your sisters jeans so you can pull your head out of your ass.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terence-Reeves/679655260 Terence Reeves

    Systemic oppression is caused predominantly by the subconscious acts of the privileged party. I feel that active bigotry is merely the ‘tip of the iceberg’ in a broad social problem. Only through careful examination and acknowledgement of our own ideals, thoughts and behaviours, can we move forward as individuals.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terence-Reeves/679655260 Terence Reeves

    Systemic oppression is caused predominantly by the subconscious acts of the privileged party. I feel that active bigotry is merely the ‘tip of the iceberg’ in a broad social problem. Only through careful examination and acknowledgement of our own ideals, thoughts and behaviours, can we move forward as individuals.

    • Dan O’Caiside

      So we must tread carefully adapt our cultural beliefs so that they have the freedom to practice theirs among us, this would require we adopt a new culture alltogether, one that endorses multi culturalism, what is it that we whites have that they want so badly that they are willing to tolerate racism just to live among us? They cleary don’t want anything to do with us, otherwise they wouldn’t constantly be looking for places to form their own distinct ethnic neighborhoods where they can continue to practice their long held cultural beliefs, while still being able to live a first world lifestyle…yes thats it, they don’t want to live with us, they just want our privilage, and some of us are more than willing to hand it to them at the expence of our own people.

      If minorities can freely act in the interests of their people, than surely so can we. We can fight to preserve our western culture (which brought us this first world lifestyle) without being called names, without being forced to integrate with other groups who don’t share our values or our ethnic makeup. To exclude them is to prevent the wanters from taking what they want to get, but it also prevents the providers from haveing to forceibly make room for something that drastically changes the character of that thing.

      For every non black that moves into a black neighborhood, they a losing their freedom to practice their cultural beliefs, if you don’t have a culture it might be hard for you to understand this, but the same goes for every black person who moves into a white neighborhood,or an asain person moving into a hispanic neighborhood. Every group has the right to preserve their culture, and the only way to do that is through nationalism. I know so many people think that nationalism is racism ((rac·ism/ˈrāˌsizəm/ Noun: The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.)) but that is quite the contrary, if nationalism was racism it would result in more racism, when historically it has been proven to cause less racism, whereas internationalism and globalism cause ethnic tention to increase by forcing people of different ethnic groups to live in the same neighborhoods and tolerate each other. Seriously are we so bored that we can’t just each live and love our own cultures instead of mixing cultures together to form the consumerist culture of today?

      Why do we consume more products to support more corporations today, while at the same time demanding that corporations take more responsibility for their actions, actions which a meant to better serve us, and themselves? Corporations serve themselves by serving the consumer, without the consumer the corporations would not succeed, so than why do we blame the corporations, and not the oonsumer? Because than we would have to take some responsibilty and no longer lay all the blame in one place. (just wait I am getting to my point). If we as individuals do not practice the cultural beliefs of our ancestors, this is what we become: Consumers, we consume for a living, and we die consumers. We live to serve the businesses who produce the goods, while they serve our needs as consumers. Without a place where the majority of the ethnic make up is our own, we cannot practice our cultural beliefs without the distractions of others practicing theirs. Every group needs this space, or else we are just consumers, their is no real meaning or purpose to our lives aside from our jobs and the little time we get to spend with our families unless we reserve a right to our own space. Same goes for Native Americans, same goes for Africans and Asians, and other groups. These things are not barriers, they open doors for people to get back to their traditionally held beliefs.

      • Andrew

        Rightists seem to think that only their own culture is sacred and above criticism, while leftists seem to think all cultures are sacred and above criticism while western culture is not a culture at all.  The truth is, no culture is sacred and above criticism.  Cultures adapt and evolve, as they must.

        Multiculturalism and consumerism are not the same thing, and neither are the only alternatives to traditionally held beliefs.

        • Danny Cassidy

          Who ever said that multiculturalism and consumerism are the same thing. They are the results of simular ideas, but they are in no way the same, if they were the same, we may have to eliminate the words and use a hybrid…consumulteruralism?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terence-Reeves/679655260 Terence Reeves

        Ethnicity is never drawn along clear-cut lines, with the **possible**
        exception of the royal family.  Do I ‘belong’ in the land I was born to, or to
        the land of my parents? My grandparents? Or further still? What am I? Irish? Scottish? British?
        French? Norse? German? What about
        those who are no longer connected to their ancestry?

        • Danny Cassidy

          You belong to the land as well as the people your ancestors are connected with. Those are the people you likely get along with better, share things like language and traditions with. Your body is better adapted to those lands, and your ideas and beliefs are better adapted to the others that have evolved and adapted simularily. Nothing is clear cut as you said, nor have I sugested that it was, but we should always try to make things as well as possible. Our ideas, our beliefs, our thoughts are connected with those who have shared that place with you throughout history. They are simular, not perfectly alighned, as nothing is perfectly aligned. Nothing is absolute.

          If you can honestly think that a community that is half black and half white would be better off than one that is all black or all white, than please explain your position.

          • Mysophobe

            What group of people belong to this North American land where I reside? By your definition I sure don’t. My ancestors were connected to a people from another land and spoke their languages and observed their traditions. What ancestral land do you belong to?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terence-Reeves/679655260 Terence Reeves

            Someone who is ‘half-black/half-white’ may often feel rejected by both groups as a direct result of polar ideologies, such as this. but then there’s also no such thing as ‘black’ or ‘white’, but rather a whole slew of cultures within those categories and a full range of pigmentation. As i grew older I learned that someone who I identify as white may in fact be black on both sides of their lineage, and it is simply their light complexion from which I have drawn my assumptions. And then you can’t tell me that an Irishman is the same as Brit, when the Irish have been fighting British rule since before the birth of empire.

            The contradiction inherit in your argument is in the lack of absolutes. There is no clear spot to draw the line.

            A multicultural society IS better because our differences enrich our perspective. We can develop a better sense for the human condition. Your reference to ‘ethnic food’ is a perfect example of this. You need to realize that the things we share go far beyond what we put in our bellies.

          • Danny Cassidy

            Yes humans of varying backgrounds can enrich our understanding of humans, because of the many differences that we have. As well their are simularities between all humans no matter their background, but their are usually less simularities between people of different ethnic backgrounds (with rare exceptions of course).

            Society was built on the basis of commonalities, not on differences, that is why I propose it is more important to preserve a society that already has alot in common, so that that society can evolve towards something more meaningful, rather than being forced to seek answers inward, by having people start asking questions like what do I get out of this, rather than looking more outward and saying things like what can I do to contribute to the long term sustainability and advancement of my societies goals.

            When society becomes confused, it becomes inward looking for what society can do for it, rather than what it can it for society. That’s not to say that this is in all cases what happens, but it deffinitly shows in the attitudes of the people in todays society. Not saying that hoping for something for what you give is not important or acceptable, but when you expect something without giving in return an equal or more substantial amount to your society, that your society declines.

            If the underclass (the non-contributers, or less-contributers) are bigger than the producers, it’s a big sign of a society in decline. I’m not sure if this is the case right now, but certainly it is heading in that direction. It’s a sign your society is not going anywhere outside its sphere, its going inward to help those who can’t keep up.

            So when it comes to the many different cultures and values that exist within a single society, it can’t have a single outward goal. It has to go inward to fix and maintain what it has, it will hav substantial trouble staying together, as people within societies with different values naturally form their own communities (not always the case, but usually is) that’s why segregation still exists despite our efforts to end it. It’s not because of racism, or atleast not necessarily, but it is because people have values in common and want to live with them. Values usually don’t cross racial lines aswell. So what you get as a result are several societies forming within one, which will eventually break apart this multicultural society, and turn it back into what the multicultists are trying to end, only to a greater extent.

            South Africa is a good example of a multicultural society in its later stages, it’s not so much important which race is killing which, but we can learn from this.

  • Andrew
  • Andrew
  • Dan O’Caiside

    Your point only proves that diversity doesn’t work. If you want to end racism, end multiculturalism. It’s the only way.

  • Danny Cassidy

    So diversity doesn’t work eh? Never woulda thought…what a shame I will miss all that delisious ethnic food when its over..nothing else though.

  • Danny Cassidy

    So diversity doesn’t work eh? Never woulda thought…what a shame I will miss all that delisious ethnic food when its over..nothing else though.

  • JoJoDancer

    You have consistently taken me out of context, or else made up some fictional platform that I am speaking from.  As you insult me again and again, it occurs to me that you may be borderline retarded, but more likely, you are too fired up on your own ego to say anything that reflects your potential intelligence.

    I never claimed to follow Jared Taylor, but I also never tried to distance myself from his statistical findings.  You made both of those things up.  You make many things up.  You are incapable of debating me, so you use creative writing to cover your lack of intellectual underpinnings.  That’s fine, that’s a typical tactic on the street and the Internet.  The difference is, even pussies can do that on the Internet.

    I gave you the facts.  I am ashamed of nothing I have said.  I am not trying to foment hate, but to point out that hate exists on all sides, is destructive from all sides, and more on some sides than others in certain respects.  Never once did I try to conceal my own motives or opinions. 

    Until next time, keep trying to think.

  • JoJoDancer

    You have consistently taken me out of context, or else made up some fictional platform that I am speaking from.  As you insult me again and again, it occurs to me that you may be borderline retarded, but more likely, you are too fired up on your own ego to say anything that reflects your potential intelligence.

    I never claimed to follow Jared Taylor, but I also never tried to distance myself from his statistical findings.  You made both of those things up.  You make many things up.  You are incapable of debating me, so you use creative writing to cover your lack of intellectual underpinnings.  That’s fine, that’s a typical tactic on the street and the Internet.  The difference is, even pussies can do that on the Internet.

    I gave you the facts.  I am ashamed of nothing I have said.  I am not trying to foment hate, but to point out that hate exists on all sides, is destructive from all sides, and more on some sides than others in certain respects.  Never once did I try to conceal my own motives or opinions. 

    Until next time, keep trying to think.

  • Dan O’Caiside

    So we must tread carefully adapt our cultural beliefs so that they have the freedom to practice theirs among us, this would require we adopt a new culture alltogether, one that endorses multi culturalism, what is it that we whites have that they want so badly that they are willing to tolerate racism just to live among us? They cleary don’t want anything to do with us, otherwise they wouldn’t constantly be looking for places to form their own distinct ethnic neighborhoods where they can continue to practice their long held cultural beliefs, while still being able to live a first world lifestyle…yes thats it, they don’t want to live with us, they just want our privilage, and some of us are more than willing to hand it to them at the expence of our own people.

    If minorities can freely act in the interests of their people, than surely so can we. We can fight to preserve our western culture (which brought us this first world lifestyle) without being called names, without being forced to integrate with other groups who don’t share our values or our ethnic makeup. To exclude them is to prevent the wanters from taking what they want to get, but it also prevents the providers from haveing to forceibly make room for something that drastically changes the character of that thing.

    For every non black that moves into a black neighborhood, they a losing their freedom to practice their cultural beliefs, if you don’t have a culture it might be hard for you to understand this, but the same goes for every black person who moves into a white neighborhood,or an asain person moving into a hispanic neighborhood. Every group has the right to preserve their culture, and the only way to do that is through nationalism. I know so many people think that nationalism is racism ((rac·ism/ˈrāˌsizəm/ Noun: The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.)) but that is quite the contrary, if nationalism was racism it would result in more racism, when historically it has been proven to cause less racism, whereas internationalism and globalism cause ethnic tention to increase by forcing people of different ethnic groups to live in the same neighborhoods and tolerate each other. Seriously are we so bored that we can’t just each live and love our own cultures instead of mixing cultures together to form the consumerist culture of today?

    Why do we consume more products to support more corporations today, while at the same time demanding that corporations take more responsibility for their actions, actions which a meant to better serve us, and themselves? Corporations serve themselves by serving the consumer, without the consumer the corporations would not succeed, so than why do we blame the corporations, and not the oonsumer? Because than we would have to take some responsibilty and no longer lay all the blame in one place. (just wait I am getting to my point). If we as individuals do not practice the cultural beliefs of our ancestors, this is what we become: Consumers, we consume for a living, and we die consumers. We live to serve the businesses who produce the goods, while they serve our needs as consumers. Without a place where the majority of the ethnic make up is our own, we cannot practice our cultural beliefs without the distractions of others practicing theirs. Every group needs this space, or else we are just consumers, their is no real meaning or purpose to our lives aside from our jobs and the little time we get to spend with our families unless we reserve a right to our own space. Same goes for Native Americans, same goes for Africans and Asians, and other groups. These things are not barriers, they open doors for people to get back to their traditionally held beliefs.

  • Danny Cassidy

    if you are suggesting that diversity doesn’t work, you are completely wrong. Seriously, we are all living in harmony in our multicultural countries. It’s exciting, and fullfilling. We get to eat all sorts of different ethnic foods and spend time out at different cultural events with an ethnic focus…

    lol, jk I’m just kidding man, diversity obviously doesn’t work, I don’t know what these cracks are thinking.

  • Danny Cassidy

    if you want some more interesting writing check out amerika.org, or anus.com. the blogs have some interesting insights, and unlike amren, you don’t have to pay to read them.

  • JoJoDancer

    To me, the question of whether diversity is workable or not is still unanswered.  There is more to gain from other cultures than good food–there is artwork, there is history, there is wisdom.  But it is very clear to me that multiculturalism comes with some serious problems, and it is bothersome that discussing this problem is either ridiculed or forbidden.

    I will have a look at these links.  Whoever got anus.com must have bought that domain early on, eh?

  • Andrew

    Rightists seem to think that only their own culture is sacred and above criticism, while leftists seem to think all cultures are sacred and above criticism while western culture is not a culture at all.  The truth is, no culture is sacred and above criticism.  Cultures adapt and evolve, as they must.

    Multiculturalism and consumerism are not the same thing, and neither are the only alternatives to traditionally held beliefs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terence-Reeves/679655260 Terence Reeves

    Ethnicity is never drawn along clear-cut lines, with the **possible**
    exception of the royal family.  Do I ‘belong’ in the land I was born to, or to
    the land of my parents? My grandparents? Or further still? What am I? Irish? Scottish? British?
    French? Norse? German? What about
    those who are no longer connected to their ancestry?

  • Danny Cassidy

    You belong to the land as well as the people your ancestors are connected with. Those are the people you likely get along with better, share things like language and traditions with. Your body is better adapted to those lands, and your ideas and beliefs are better adapted to the others that have evolved and adapted simularily. Nothing is clear cut as you said, nor have I sugested that it was, but we should always try to make things as well as possible. Our ideas, our beliefs, our thoughts are connected with those who have shared that place with you throughout history. They are simular, not perfectly alighned, as nothing is perfectly aligned. Nothing is absolute.

    If you can honestly think that a community that is half black and half white would be better off than one that is all black or all white, than please explain your position.

  • Danny Cassidy

    Who ever said that multiculturalism and consumerism are the same thing. They are the results of simular ideas, but they are in no way the same, if they were the same, we may have to eliminate the words and use a hybrid…consumulteruralism?

  • Mysophobe

    What group of people belong to this North American land where I reside? By your definition I sure don’t. My ancestors were connected to a people from another land and spoke their languages and observed their traditions. What ancestral land do you belong to?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terence-Reeves/679655260 Terence Reeves

    Someone who is ‘half-black/half-white’ may often feel rejected by both groups as a direct result of polar ideologies, such as this. but then there’s also no such thing as ‘black’ or ‘white’, but rather a whole slew of cultures within those categories and a full range of pigmentation. As i grew older I learned that someone who I identify as white may in fact be black on both sides of their lineage, and it is simply their light complexion from which I have drawn my assumptions. And then you can’t tell me that an Irishman is the same as Brit, when the Irish have been fighting British rule since before the birth of empire.

    The contradiction inherit in your argument is in the lack of absolutes. There is no clear spot to draw the line.

    A multicultural society IS better because our differences enrich our perspective. We can develop a better sense for the human condition. Your reference to ‘ethnic food’ is a perfect example of this. You need to realize that the things we share go far beyond what we put in our bellies.

  • Danny Cassidy

    Yes humans of varying backgrounds can enrich our understanding of humans, because of the many differences that we have. As well their are simularities between all humans no matter their background, but their are usually less simularities between people of different ethnic backgrounds (with rare exceptions of course).

    Society was built on the basis of commonalities, not on differences, that is why I propose it is more important to preserve a society that already has alot in common, so that that society can evolve towards something more meaningful, rather than being forced to seek answers inward, by having people start asking questions like what do I get out of this, rather than looking more outward and saying things like what can I do to contribute to the long term sustainability and advancement of my societies goals.

    When society becomes confused, it becomes inward looking for what society can do for it, rather than what it can it for society. That’s not to say that this is in all cases what happens, but it deffinitly shows in the attitudes of the people in todays society. Not saying that hoping for something for what you give is not important or acceptable, but when you expect something without giving in return an equal or more substantial amount to your society, that your society declines.

    If the underclass (the non-contributers, or less-contributers) are bigger than the producers, it’s a big sign of a society in decline. I’m not sure if this is the case right now, but certainly it is heading in that direction. It’s a sign your society is not going anywhere outside its sphere, its going inward to help those who can’t keep up.

    So when it comes to the many different cultures and values that exist within a single society, it can’t have a single outward goal. It has to go inward to fix and maintain what it has, it will hav substantial trouble staying together, as people within societies with different values naturally form their own communities (not always the case, but usually is) that’s why segregation still exists despite our efforts to end it. It’s not because of racism, or atleast not necessarily, but it is because people have values in common and want to live with them. Values usually don’t cross racial lines aswell. So what you get as a result are several societies forming within one, which will eventually break apart this multicultural society, and turn it back into what the multicultists are trying to end, only to a greater extent.

    South Africa is a good example of a multicultural society in its later stages, it’s not so much important which race is killing which, but we can learn from this.

  • HeavyJunk

    Racism is not new for any one group, every group has their racist and bigoted elements it’s just a fact of being human.  I will say from my own personal experience, being a young white whose has lived in a variety of ethnic communities and situations that I felt that there were many times when I was discriminated against because I was white.  For some reason I received the reward for the perceived injustices of whites in the past.  And believe that if your the only white in a group of diverse minorities they have a habit of uniting and setting themselves against you.  One thing that I can be thankful for is that whites can’t be labeled the most racist…try living around Japanese or Koreans.

  • guest

    jewish owned media always look the othere way when and if they have to make a black person look bad,even when the cause is justified.however,accussing whites on the spot is what they do best.no evidence the whites did it because they are racist.50 years of this self hating and self loathing of white news people.when will the media get off the jewish pot and report the new honostly?anti-racism is code for anti-white.

    • Andrew

      And the worst of them all was that motherfucker Jesus.

  • guest

    jewish owned media always look the othere way when and if they have to make a black person look bad,even when the cause is justified.however,accussing whites on the spot is what they do best.no evidence the whites did it because they are racist.50 years of this self hating and self loathing of white news people.when will the media get off the jewish pot and report the new honostly?anti-racism is code for anti-white.

  • Andrew

    And the worst of them all was that motherfucker Jesus.

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