• http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    That’s their worst nightmare.

    Also, obligatory spacemoose cartoon of a similar theme… http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/malcolm.gif

    I still want to be Spacemoose when I grow up.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    That’s their worst nightmare.

    Also, obligatory spacemoose cartoon of a similar theme… http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/malcolm.gif

    I still want to be Spacemoose when I grow up.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    That’s their worst nightmare.

    Also, obligatory spacemoose cartoon of a similar theme… http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/malcolm.gif

    I still want to be Spacemoose when I grow up.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    That’s their worst nightmare.

    Also, obligatory spacemoose cartoon of a similar theme… http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/malcolm.gif

    I still want to be Spacemoose when I grow up.

  • FusionSaint

    To prove how worthlessly ignorant Americans are all you have to do is read the comment section… how sad. Guy and his family have a long list of service to their country and people shit on him for no reason. Pathetic. 

  • Anonymous

    To prove how worthlessly ignorant Americans are all you have to do is read the comment section… how sad. Guy and his family have a long list of service to their country and people shit on him for no reason. Pathetic. 

  • Skillimino

    What is this fool barking about?

    • Jin The Ninja

      i think you meant that self-referentially, because you couldn’t possibly be referring to the marine in the video whom was defending people’s constitutional right to free assembly and protest against unjust institutions and police tyranny.

  • Skillimino

    What is this fool barking about?

  • Stotally Toned

    What’s with the short skip in the video when the guy approaches the cops? What was edited out?

  • Stotally Toned

    What’s with the short skip in the video when the guy approaches the cops? What was edited out?

  • Mr Willow

    Give that man a medal!

    Bravo sir. Bravo.

  • Mr Willow

    Bravo sir! Bravo.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WSPVLVNHHKSBPPXD3KSNJWTTFY kommi

    well said, kudos to people who stand up! good thing a lot of cameras were there. Blue shirts turn brown in a sec…..

    • Manipulation

       Of course there were cameras there…the person filming knows this man, and the event is clearly premeditated for the dual purposes of expression and making a video for the internet.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WSPVLVNHHKSBPPXD3KSNJWTTFY kommi

    well said, kudos to people who stand up! good thing a lot of cameras were there. Blue shirts turn brown in a sec…..

  • Anonymous

    i think you meant that self-referentially, because you couldn’t possibly be referring to the marine in the video whom was defending people’s constitutional right to free assembly and protest against unjust institutions and police tyranny.

  • Jin The Ninja

    he is right, real warriors have a code of honour and conduct and do NOT hurt unarmed people.

    • DeepCough

      Police are not “warriors,” they are goons.

      • Jin The Ninja

        oh i certainly agree. but nothing gives a person the illusion of righteousness more than a badge and a gun.

        • Jygolfer

          …or a marines uniform.

          • Jin The Ninja

            touche sir.

  • Anonymous

    he is right, real warriors have a code of honour and conduct and do NOT hurt unarmed people.

  • patrick

    In my view, the guy was half right. Of course what the police is doing is sleazy but what he and his army fellow army people did and still do in Irak and afghanistan is 1000 times worst. As far as I know the nypd is not dropping drones or machine gunning people. 

     He said he defended his country by going to Irak. WTF is he talking about?
    And the look on the cops faces were pathetic and sad. I mean, if he was not dressed like a soldier, they would have treated him like another black guy and showed him no respect. 

      I saw him in a couple of interviews and nobody brought this question up. 

      America is far from the day it will change. 

    • http://KREET-N.BLOGSPOT.COM/ KREET-N

      honestly…you could see the fear in the cops eyes.  they left the soldier alone.  doesn’t really matter…what we saw there was CONFUSION. the cops wanted him to be quiet, but they were completely unwilling to engage him because of the uniform.  his main point was correct: there is no honor in what the cops do.
      whether or not there is true honor in what the military does has everything to do with whats going on in the streets.  A good soldier obeys the will of the people.  The will of the people is overwhelmingly against warfare in practice, but not in theory.  We all believe we should be ready to face any threat.  We’re just sick of being told that we have foreign enemies when we have none.  All our enemies are in house. Our military will be ready for anything the people tell them to do and that includes STAND DOWN. 
      the cops work for our enemies. never forget that.

      • E.B. Wolf

        That sounds really beautiful, except “the people” didn’t order the military into Libya, or Iraq, or Vietnam, or to assassinate people around the globe.

        If the military was ordered to open fire on protesting American civilians, most of them would do it. This guy may be inspiring, and rightly so, but he is the exception not the rule.

        • Blast

          I HIGHLY doubt that American soldiers would OPEN FIRE on any of these #Occupy protestors if they were ordered to. To say that that would is simply inflammatory. They may have been trained to follow orders but the members of our ARMED FORCES are MUCH SMARTER than you give them credit for. 

          While overseas and in COMBAT, they lose friends, colleagues, and others to violence and other who shoot at them, want them dead, or treat them badly on a regular basis. 

          Within our borders the members of our Armed Forces biggest enemy is actually their employer. We need only look at how our Veterans are treated to see that fact. 

          • E.B. Wolf

            By what reasoning do you doubt that they would other than not wanting to believe it? 

            I’m basing my assertion that the vast majority would do it on:
            - The Milgram Study for a starting point. http://psychology.about.com/od/historyofpsychology/a/milgram.htm
            - Add the fact that the military is rigidly hierarchical in structure and places great emphasis on following the orders of one’s superiors. A great deal of time during basic training emphasizes this.

            Since it has been statistically tested and found that about 50% of average american citizens would kill another person on the instructions of an authority figure, I conclude it to be a solid hypothesis that that figure would rise dramatically in a sample of strictly military personnel due to the extensive conditioning they go through as well as the fact that those who are drawn to military life would trend towards a high representation of the 50% of the total populace who will kill a stranger on command.

            I do believe the oath says that soldiers swear “to defend the United States from all enemies, foriegn AND DOMESTIC.” So how would one effectively brand an OWS protester (or any other type) as a domestic enemy of the U.S.? Two words- Domestic Terrorist.

          • http://KREET-N.BLOGSPOT.COM/ KREET-N

            ALL right…I took a nap and I’m ready to tackle this one. 
            Need I remind y’all that 9-11 was orchestrated in order to get the will of the people behind a foreign war?! That was 10 years ago…and we were all gullible and weak.  the actions that have been taken on the part of our military are not their responsibility.  We sent them over there…now whether or not we call them back and keep them back is another question entirely.  Personally I think we can do it. Seeing people calling out for social justice everywhere gives me more optimism for the future than I have ever had in my life.  
            lets not get caught up in whether or not soldiers would or would not kill US citizens. the police kill people in my city every year with regularity.  The police mindset is what is at issue…and their livelihood is tied to the will of the banks at the moment.  This will change.  Give it time.  They will start to quit and turn against the moneyed elite.  give it time. when they realize they don’t have to enforce the laws that they personally believe are unjust they will refuse to turn on the people.  They just don’t know where else to go yet.

          • E.B. Wolf

            “…the actions that have been taken on the part of our military are not their responsibility.”Yes they are. Otherwise, how can you hold bankers and corporate fat-cats responsible for their actions? After all, they’re just acting according to the rules of corporate america. 

            “The police mindset is what is at issue…and their livelihood is tied to the will of the banks at the moment.  This will change.  Give it time.”
            Again, what do you base that statement on other than HOPEing that it will CHANGE. Hmmm. I’m sure I heard that slogan somewhere before.

            Don’t get me wrong. Nobody would be more thrilled than me to see the uniformed thugs turn on their masters. I just don’t see anything that indicates this is even a remote possibility. 

            Why should they? They get paid a fat salary with benefits and retirement packages that most people only dream about. They are one of the strongest unions in the country who are currently being tasked with cracking the skulls of anyone else who attempts to publicly organize.
            Then there’s the percs that will continue to attract the type of people who get off on bullying others and enforcing laws that they will almost never be forced to obey themselves. 

          • http://KREET-N.BLOGSPOT.COM/ KREET-N

            You’re right about the cops man.  but at what point do they examine their own behavior?  All the new york cops have to be in a frenzy right now.  How do you take orders to pacify people when common sense dictates that you will agree with them?  They haven’t shot anyone yet, and i don’t think they’re going to.  They back down from 1 marine.  Its proof of their meekness.  That dude who yelled aint a hero….don’t get me wrong.  Cops aren’t heroes either. 

          • Mr Willow

            I HIGHLY doubt that American soldiers would OPEN FIRE on any of these #Occupy protestors if they were ordered to. To say that that would is simply inflammatory.

            Perhaps not, if you recall the Kent State shooting during Vietnam (technically Cambodia) protests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

            Granted, the protesters had to vandalise the town the previous day, and it involved a burning of the Constitution and a draft card—nothing even approaching that has occurred during the Occupy events. 

            However, the police have had a a rather disruptive (if I can use a mild term) presence there (at Wall Street) from the very beginning, and if anything did occur, do you really think Bloomberg would hesitate to order the National Guard march on Wall Street to disperse the crowd? All that would need to happen is one broken window, one thrown punch, (not even perpetrated by a protester. They could be blamed regardless) and then all of a sudden Bloomberg would declare it ‘a movement bent on destroying the city’ or some such nonsense.

            I’m with E.B. on this

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

            Does Kent State ring a bell to you?

        • USMC

          Check the list of contributors on the last Ron Paul money bomb Wolf.  Most of them are in the military.  I am in the military and have been for over a decade.  I can promise you that as for the Marines we will die before we open fire on Americans.  I see your frustration, but we are all just as loyal as you to our founding ideals.  This man is common in our ranks, remember that we came from the same places as you and have loved ones there as well.

  • patrick

    In my view, the guy was half right. Of course what the police is doing is sleazy but what he and his army fellow army people did and still do in Irak and afghanistan is 1000 times worst. As far as I know the nypd is not dropping drones or machine gunning people. 

     He said he defended his country by going to Irak. WTF is he talking about?
    And the look on the cops faces were pathetic and sad. I mean, if he was not dressed like a soldier, they would have treated him like another black guy and showed him no respect. 

      I saw him in a couple of interviews and nobody brought this question up. 

      America is far from the day it will change. 

  • patrick

    One more thing.

     HE said when he was in Irak he never shot any unarmed civilian. Well whoopity doo! Does he want a medal? The fact his he should have never been there in the first place.

      If he truly has honor, he should have refused to go to invade another country that had done nothing to deserved to be invaded.

    • Anti Consumerist.

      Riight, so he can be dishonorably discharged and possibly prisoned for violating his contract? rather than risk his life and taking out a genocidal dictator? I don’t believe in the Iraq war one bit, or most of them for that matter and I’m far from a pacifist. Implying that the Iraq war was ALL bad though in my opinion, is ignorant.

    • USMC

      Don’t see you out there facing off against the cops pat.  Just a reminder, taking advantage of peoples patriotism and lying to them to go to war is the fault of the government not the person who was convinced of a well crafted lie.  The military is waking up brother. 

  • patrick

    One more thing.

     HE said when he was in Irak he never shot any unarmed civilian. Well whoopity doo! Does he want a medal? The fact his he should have never been there in the first place.

      If he truly has honor, he should have refused to go to invade another country that had done nothing to deserved to be invaded.

  • Kev

    holy shit I know 3 of those cops in the video

    • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

      Cool, maybe you can give us their names and addresses?

      • Nuggett

        An eye for an eye is just dumb.  

        • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

          I was thinking more of a “Name and Shame”.

          Eye for an Eye is too biblical for my tastes.

          Funny that’s the first place your mind went, though.

          • Kev

            Maybe not man because literally there just standing in the video as the guy practices freedom of speech no harm was done upon him.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            True enough.

            Looks like they intended something that they didn’t follow through with for the rest of the crowd, though.

            In any case, I’d be a fool not to get that info from you if it were available.

            No telling what other videos these guys might show up in.

          • Kev

            To do what with yell at them, call there houses, yea that will really get them to change their minds. Just doing there jobs like everyone else. Look at Europe when those people get into groups it turns violent in a second, full scale riots in the cities. Look at NYC a few people pepper sprayed and a couple hundred arrested.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            If necessary I’m willing to do all those things and more.

            Done it in the past, will do it again.

            Funny how the “authorities” seem to think they should know who and where everyone is, but don’t want to extend the same privilege.

            Reciprocity is a beautiful thing.

            I also think that reciprocity is the foundation of a just relationship.

            You’re not against justice, are you?

          • Kev

            Done it in the past, like what?

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Called them up and yelled at them.

            Shown up at their houses and donut shops with picket signs.

            Posted their contact info online so others can do the same.

            If memory serves, I posted the email address and phone # of a shitty D.A. here on Disinfo just a month or two ago.

          • Kev

            I waited and thought you were going to say something pretty crazy or intense, and all I have to say is really thats what you do really.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Yeah, really.

            I think Claire Wolfe has summed the situation up pretty well.

            Most people tend to behave when they know other people are watching them, even the cops.

            Sometimes they just need a reminder.

          • Kev

            Yea i know that, but you call them up and yell at them and show up their houses, that’s what I’m saying really about. By doing this do you think your going to make them change or go you know what this guy calling me is right, my ways are wrong. You going to their houses, one day your gonna screw with the wrong cop and get shot on his lawn for trespassing, come on man

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            I think that putting social pressure on people to behave as they are required to behave does work.

            The cop or DA on the other end of the phone may not say “Hey, this guy is right.” but he’s going to at least say, “Hey, last time I illegally pepper sprayed a bunch of hippie chicks I got a lot of angry calls and had to change my phone # 3 times. Maybe I ought not do that again.”

            As far as getting shot by a cop for going to his house… We’re pretty careful to stay on the sidewalks. When that happens there’s not much they can really do except try to pass out parking tickets to the people they think did the driving.

            Plus, cops aren’t the only ones with guns or friends. I may get gunned down some day, but I’ll die knowing that cop will be following right behind me through the gates of hell.

          • Andrew

            Crazy is the new sane.

          • Anti Consumerist.

            That’s a sentence I hate more than anything else to hear. It urks my nerve to no end, and makes me rage. ” Just doing their jobs” At what point does PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY come in to stand up for what’s right or wrong? Why follow orders when they’re unjust for a paycheck?

          • Kev

            Do you see any person get harmed in this video, do you see anything besides these people saying move along get off the road. How many people have been killed down on wall street, let me think um 0. They get arrested yes and sometimes its wrong to arrest these people just doing there basic rights in this country. You say this put you probably listen to what your boss says at work and do what your told in the chain of command. Now saying that you’ll probably say you work for yourself or your some revolutionary freedom fighter.
            Also many police offers that are getting in trouble for harming people down there are getting pay checks cut and many of their privileges taken away.

  • Kev

    holy shit I know 3 of those cops in the video

  • KREET-n SLAVE

    P U R F E C T!
    little dogs lay down when a big dog barks.

  • http://KREET-N.BLOGSPOT.COM/ KREET-N

    P U R F E C T!
    little dogs lay down when a big dog barks.

  • Esther Venetia Conneywerdy

    Who ever you are…..God bless you for taking the stand for man-kind, you got my vote for next president and that is a truthful statement in my heart. Take care :o)

  • Esther Venetia Conneywerdy

    Who ever you are…..God bless you for taking the stand for man-kind, you got my vote for next president and that is a truthful statement in my heart. Take care :o)

    • Esther Venetia Conneywerdy

      I appreciate and very proud of you, thank you for standing as a god honest Marine :o)

  • Esther Venetia Conneywerdy

    I appreciate and very proud of you, thank you for standing as a god honest Marine :o)

  • KREET-n SLAVE

    honestly…you could see the fear in the cops eyes.  they left the soldier alone.  doesn’t really matter…what we saw there was CONFUSION. the cops wanted him to be quiet, but they were completely unwilling to engage him because of the uniform.  his main point was correct: there is no honor in what the cops do.
    whether or not there is true honor in what the military does has everything to do with whats going on in the streets.  A good soldier obeys the will of the people.  The will of the people is overwhelmingly against warfare in practice, but not in theory.  We all believe we should be ready to face any threat.  We’re just sick of being told that we have foreign enemies when we have none.  All our enemies are in house. Our military will be ready for anything the people tell them to do and that includes STAND DOWN. 
    the cops work for our enemies. never forget that.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Cool, maybe you can give us their names and addresses?

  • E.B. Wolf

    That sounds really beautiful, except “the people” didn’t order the military into Libya, or Iraq, or Vietnam, or to assassinate people around the globe.

    If the military was ordered to open fire on protesting American civilians, most would do it. This guy may be inspiring, and rightly so, but he is the exception not the rule.

  • Manipulation

    So, despite the fact that this video is obviously edited to remove the initial confrontation, everyone loves it? No one is asking the critical question of what was left out? Regardless of what this man is saying, the gap bothers me too much to consider anything else right now. Is this a fnord? Am I the only one who sees this?

    • Elmyr23

      could be edited for any number of reasons, i would not think this to be a fnord.

      • Manipulation

         And what is the list of these possible reasons? I feel like the initial moments of this encounter would be important to the narrative.

  • Manipulation

    So, despite the fact that this video is obviously edited to remove the initial confrontation, everyone loves it? No one is asking the critical question of what was left out? Regardless of what this man is saying, the gap bothers me too much to consider anything else right now. Is this a fnord? Am I the only one who sees this?

  • Nyanblade

    I find it disturbing that it takes a uniform to give those cops pause as they go about the business of blithely shellacking people for constitutionally assembling – does this marine’s opinion carry more weight because of that uniform? How does serving in the imperial occupation corps ON BEHALF OF THE SAME PAYMASTERS AS THE COPS grant him the moral weight to shame the NYPD? Did I wake up in a Heinlein novel? The instant gravitas accorded to all uniformed persons is an indicator of how far militarized our society is – and while it is no surprise the cops would act that way, the very popularity of this vidya indicates that such an attitude of deference is much more widespread, even among a people’s movement like OWS.

    “These are US citizens!”

    And they are worth no more nor less than noncitizens, on an intrinsic basis or in terms of their rights under the Bill of Rights. As it relates to what the government can and can’t do to protesters under the constitution, their citizenry is irrelevant.

    “You want to fight, go to Iraq!”

    As though it’d be okay to inflict the same brutality and worse on Iraqis just because they aren’t Americans!

    “I fought to defend this country!”

    From what, oil shortages?

    “How do you sleep at night?”

    The US military is a worldwide force of mechanized repression far more dangerous and vicious than the NYPD or any police force. How does ANY agent of Empire sleep at night?

    • 5by5

      It’s mini Stanford Experiment stuff. The thing about a uniform is that it conceptually separates you from those who aren’t in uniform. And once there’s an “Us vs. Them” mentality, often the only person who CAN breakthrough to the people in uniform, is someone else wearing a uniform. Weird, but true.

    • Archon
  • Nyanblade

    I find it disturbing that it takes a uniform to give those cops pause as they go about the business of blithely shellacking people for constitutionally assembling – does this marine’s opinion carry more weight because of that uniform? How does serving in the imperial occupation corps ON BEHALF OF THE SAME PAYMASTERS AS THE COPS grant him the moral weight to shame the NYPD? Did I wake up in a Heinlein novel? The instant gravitas accorded to all uniformed persons is an indicator of how far militarized our society is – and while it is no surprise the cops would act that way, the very popularity of this vidya indicates that such an attitude of deference is much more widespread, even among a people’s movement like OWS.

    “These are US citizens!”

    And they are worth no more nor less than noncitizens, on an intrinsic basis or in terms of their rights under the Bill of Rights. As it relates to what the government can and can’t do to protesters under the constitution, their citizenry is irrelevant.

    “You want to fight, go to Iraq!”

    As though it’d be okay to inflict the same brutality and worse on Iraqis just because they aren’t Americans!

    “I fought to defend this country!”

    From what, oil shortages?

    “How do you sleep at night?”

    The US military is a worldwide force of mechanized repression far more dangerous and vicious than the NYPD or any police force. How does ANY agent of Empire sleep at night?

  • Nuggett

    An eye for an eye is just dumb.  

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    I was thinking more of a “Name and Shame”.

    Eye for an Eye is too biblical for my tastes.

    Funny that’s the first place your mind went, though.

  • Blast

    I HIGHLY doubt that American soldiers would OPEN FIRE on any of these #Occupy protestors if they were ordered to. To say that that would is simply inflammatory. They may have been trained to follow orders but the members of our ARMED FORCES are MUCH SMARTER than you give them credit for. 

    While overseas and in COMBAT, they lose friends, colleagues, and others to violence and other who shoot at them, want them dead, or treat them badly on a regular basis. 

    Within our borders the members of our Armed Forces biggest enemy is actually their employer. We need only look at how our Veterans are treated to see that fact. 

  • DeepCough

    Police are not “warriors,” they are goons.

  • E.B. Wolf

    By what reasoning do you doubt that they would other than not wanting to believe it? 

    I’m basing my assertion that the vast majority would do it on:
    - The Milgram Study for a starting point. http://psychology.about.com/od/historyofpsychology/a/milgram.htm
    - Add the fact that the military is rigidly hierarchical in structure and places great emphasis on following the orders of one’s superiors. A great deal of time during basic training emphasizes this.

    Since it has been statistically tested and found that about 50% of average american citizens would kill another person on the instructions of an authority figure, I conclude it to be a solid hypothesis that that figure would rise dramatically in a sample of strictly military personnel due to the extensive conditioning they go through as well as the fact that those who are drawn to military life would trend towards the 50% of the total populace who will kill a stranger on command.

    I do believe the oath says that soldiers swear “to defend the United States from all enemies, foriegn AND DOMESTIC.” So how would one effectively brand an OWS protester (or any other type) as a domestic enemy of the U.S.? Two words- Domestic Terrorist.

  • Anonymous

    oh i certainly agree. but nothing gives a person the illusion of righteousness more than a badge and a gun.

  • Andrew

    Perhaps the lie this soldier believes is better than the truth those cops know.

  • Andrew

    Perhaps the lie this soldier believes is better than the truth those cops know.

  • Kev

    Maybe not man because literally there just standing in the video as the guy practices freedom of speech no harm was done upon him.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    True enough.

    Looks like they intended something that they didn’t follow through with for the rest of the crowd, though.

    In any case, I’d be a fool not to get that info from you if it were available.

    No telling what other videos these guys might show up in.

  • KREET-n SLAVE

    ALL right…I took a nap and I’m ready to tackle this one. 
    Need I remind y’all that 9-11 was orchestrated in order to get the will of the people behind a foreign war?! That was 10 years ago…and we were all gullible and weak.  the actions that have been taken on the part of our military are not their responsibility.  We sent them over there…now whether or not we call them back and keep them back is another question entirely.  Personally I think we can do it. Seeing people calling out for social justice everywhere gives me more optimism for the future than I have ever had in my life.  
    lets not get caught up in whether or not soldiers would or would not kill US citizens. the police kill people in my city every year with regularity.  The police mindset is what is at issue…and their livelihood is tied to the will of the banks at the moment.  This will change.  Give it time.  They will start to quit and turn against the moneyed elite.  give it time. when they realize they don’t have to enforce the laws that they personally believe are unjust they will refuse to turn on the people.  They just don’t know where else to go yet.

  • Gergith

    No matter what you can say about the content of what he said. He clearly got the police to change there action. That’s impressive.

  • Greg Kane

    No matter what you can say about the content of what he said. He clearly got the police to change there action. That’s impressive.

  • Dn

    I cannot agree more, seems America is getting its touch of Liberation from the Gov’t now, fight it.

  • Dn

    I cannot agree more, seems America is getting its touch of Liberation from the Gov’t now, fight it.

  • Jygolfer

    …or a marines uniform.

  • Anonymous

    touche sir.

  • Anonymous

    touche sir.

  • Mr Willow

    I HIGHLY doubt that American soldiers would OPEN FIRE on any of these #Occupy protestors if they were ordered to. To say that that would is simply inflammatory.

    Perhaps not, if you recall the Kent State shooting during Vietnam (technically Cambodia) protests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

    Granted, the protesters had to vandalise the town the previous day, and it involved a burning of the Constitution and a draft card—nothing even approaching that has occurred during the Occupy events. 

    However, the police have had a a rather disruptive (if I can use a mild term) presence there (at Wall Street) from the very beginning, and if anything did occur, do you really think Bloomberg would hesitate to order the National Guard march on Wall Street to disperse the crowd? All that would need to happen is one broken window, one thrown punch, and then all of a sudden Bloomberg would declare it ‘a movement bent on destroying the city’ or some such nonsense.

  • Elmyr23

    could be edited for any number of reasons, i would not think this to be a fnord.

  • Calypso_1

    There are many veterans antiwar groups – occupy groups should seek solidarity with them.  How is it going to look when riot geared goons square off against uniformed veterans.

    • Manipulation

      I don’t know, maybe they’ll just edit that out of the video too.

      • 5by5

        It would hardly be the first time the NYPD has edited out “inconvenient” moments from videos of their police actions. They got MAJORLY busted for doing it at the 2004 Republican National Convention. 

        The only reason why they got busted, was because citizen journalists had video of their own, of the same sequence of events, and it clearly showed in court that police video had been edited. 

        This is why the cops are also arresting people for just videotapping them. They know such things can be used in court to prove how completely full of crap these bad cops are.

      • Calypso_1

        Maybe it will still show up on al jazeera.

  • Calypso

    There are many veterans antiwar groups – occupy groups should seek solidarity with them.  How is it going to look when riot geared goons square off against uniformed veterans.

  • E.B. Wolf

    “…the actions that have been taken on the part of our military are not their responsibility.”Yes they are. Otherwise, how can you hold bankers and corporate fat-cats responsible for their actions? After all, they’re just acting according to the rules of corporate america. 

    “The police mindset is what is at issue…and their livelihood is tied to the will of the banks at the moment.  This will change.  Give it time.”
    Again, what do you base that statement on other than HOPEing that it will CHANGE. Hmmm. I’m sure I heard that slogan somewhere before.

    Don’t get me wrong. Nobody would be more thrilled than me to see the uniformed thugs turn on their masters. I just don’t see anything that indicates this is even a remote possibility. 

    Why should they? They get paid a fat salary with benefits and retirement packages that most people only dream about. They are one of the strongest unions in the country who are currently being tasked with cracking the skulls of anyone else who attempts to publicly organize.
    Then there’s the percs that will continue to attract the type of people who get off on bullying others and enforcing laws that they will almost never be forced to obey themselves. 

  • Kev

    To do what with yell at them, call there houses, yea that will really get them to change their minds. Just doing there jobs like everyone else. Look at Europe when those people get into groups it turns violent in a second, full scale riots in the cities. Look at NYC a few people pepper sprayed and a couple hundred arrested.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    If necessary I’m willing to do all those things and more.

    Done it in the past, will do it again.

    Funny how the “authorities” seem to think they should know who and where everyone is, but don’t want to extend the same privilege.

    Reciprocity is a beautiful thing.

    I also think that reciprocity is the foundation of a just relationship.

    You’re not against justice, are you?

  • Kev

    Done it in the past, like what?

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Called them up and yelled at them.

    Shown up at their houses and donut shops with picket signs.

    Posted their contact info online so others can do the same.

    If memory serves, I posted the email address and phone # of a shitty D.A. here on Disinfo just a month or two ago.

  • Kev

    I waited and thought you were going to say something pretty crazy or intense, and all I have to say is really thats what you do really.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Yeah, really.

    I think Claire Wolfe has summed the situation up pretty well.

    Most people tend to behave when they know other people are watching them, even the cops.

    Sometimes they just need a reminder.

  • Kev

    Yea i know that, but you call them up and yell at them and show up their houses, that’s what I’m saying really about. By doing this do you think your going to make them change or go you know what this guy calling me is right, my ways are wrong. You going to their houses, one day your gonna screw with the wrong cop and get shot on his lawn for trespassing, come on man

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    I think that putting social pressure on people to behave as they are required to behave does work.

    The cop or DA on the other end of the phone may not say “Hey, this guy is right.” but he’s going to at least say, “Hey, last time I illegally pepper sprayed a bunch of hippie chicks I got a lot of angry calls and had to change my phone # 3 times. Maybe I ought not do that again.”

    As far as getting shot by a cop for going to his house… We’re pretty careful to stay on the sidewalks. When that happens there’s not much they can really do except try to pass out parking tickets to the people they think did the driving.

    Plus, cops aren’t the only ones with guns or friends. I may get gunned down some day, but I’ll die knowing that cop will be following right behind me through the gates of hell.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    I think that putting social pressure on people to behave as they are required to behave does work.

    The cop or DA on the other end of the phone may not say “Hey, this guy is right.” but he’s going to at least say, “Hey, last time I illegally pepper sprayed a bunch of hippie chicks I got a lot of angry calls and had to change my phone # 3 times. Maybe I ought not do that again.”

    As far as getting shot by a cop for going to his house… We’re pretty careful to stay on the sidewalks. When that happens there’s not much they can really do except try to pass out parking tickets to the people they think did the driving.

    Plus, cops aren’t the only ones with guns or friends. I may get gunned down some day, but I’ll die knowing that cop will be following right behind me through the gates of hell.

  • Manipulation

     And what is the list of these possible reasons? I feel like the initial moments of this encounter would be important to the narrative.

  • Manipulation

     Of course there were cameras there…the person filming knows this man, and the event is clearly premeditated for the dual purposes of expression and making a video for the internet.

  • Manipulation

    I don’t know, maybe they’ll just edit that out of the video too.

  • KREET-n SLAVE

    You’re right about the cops man.  but at what point do they examine their own behavior?  All the new york cops have to be in a frenzy right now.  How do you take orders to pacify people when common sense dictates that you will agree with them?  They haven’t shot anyone yet, and i don’t think they’re going to.  They back down from 1 marine.  Its proof of their meekness.  That dude who yelled aint a hero….don’t get me wrong.  Cops aren’t heroes either. 

  • Anti Consumerist.

    Riight, so he can be dishonorably discharged and possibly prisoned for violating his contract? rather than risk his life and taking out a genocidal dictator? I don’t believe in the Iraq war one bit, or most of them for that matter and I’m far from a pacifist. Implying that the Iraq war was ALL bad though in my opinion, is ignorant.

  • Anti Consumerist.

    That’s a sentence I hate more than anything else to hear. It urks my nerve to no end, and makes me rage. ” Just doing their jobs” At what point does PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY come in to stand up for what’s right or wrong? Why follow orders when they’re unjust for a paycheck?

  • 5by5

    It’s mini Stanford Experiment stuff. The thing about a uniform is that it conceptually separates you from those who aren’t in uniform. And once there’s an “Us vs. Them” mentality, often the only person who CAN breakthrough to the people in uniform, is someone else wearing a uniform. Weird, but true.

  • 5by5

    It would hardly be the first time the NYPD has edited out “inconvenient” moments from videos of their police actions. They got MAJORLY busted for doing it at the 2004 Republican National Convention. 

    The only reason why they got busted, was because citizen journalists had video of their own, of the same sequence of events, and it clearly showed in court that police video had been edited. 

    This is why the cops are also arresting people for just videotapping them. They know such things can be used in court to prove how completely full of crap these bad cops are.

  • USMC

    Check the list of contributors on the last Ron Paul money bomb Wolf.  Most of them are in the military.  I am in the military and have been for over a decade.  I can promise you that as for the Marines we will die before we open fire on Americans.  I see your frustration, but we are all just as loyal as you to our founding ideals.  This man is common in our ranks, remember that we came from the same places as you and have loved ones there as well.

  • USMC

    Don’t see you out there facing off against the cops pat.  Just a reminder, taking advantage of peoples patriotism and lying to them to go to war is the fault of the government not the person who was convinced of a well crafted lie.  The military is waking up brother. 

  • Kev

    Do you see any person get harmed in this video, do you see anything besides these people saying move along get off the road. How many people have been killed down on wall street, let me think um 0. They get arrested yes and sometimes its wrong to arrest these people just doing there basic rights in this country. You say this put you probably listen to what your boss says at work and do what your told in the chain of command. Now saying that you’ll probably say you work for yourself or your some revolutionary freedom fighter.
    Also many police offers that are getting in trouble for harming people down there are getting pay checks cut and many of their privileges taken away.

  • Kev

    Do you see any person get harmed in this video, do you see anything besides these people saying move along get off the road. How many people have been killed down on wall street, let me think um 0. They get arrested yes and sometimes its wrong to arrest these people just doing there basic rights in this country. You say this put you probably listen to what your boss says at work and do what your told in the chain of command. Now saying that you’ll probably say you work for yourself or your some revolutionary freedom fighter.
    Also many police offers that are getting in trouble for harming people down there are getting pay checks cut and many of their privileges taken away.

  • Kev

    Do you see any person get harmed in this video, do you see anything besides these people saying move along get off the road. How many people have been killed down on wall street, let me think um 0. They get arrested yes and sometimes its wrong to arrest these people just doing there basic rights in this country. You say this put you probably listen to what your boss says at work and do what your told in the chain of command. Now saying that you’ll probably say you work for yourself or your some revolutionary freedom fighter.
    Also many police offers that are getting in trouble for harming people down there are getting pay checks cut and many of their privileges taken away.

  • Kev

    Do you see any person get harmed in this video, do you see anything besides these people saying move along get off the road. How many people have been killed down on wall street, let me think um 0. They get arrested yes and sometimes its wrong to arrest these people just doing there basic rights in this country. You say this put you probably listen to what your boss says at work and do what your told in the chain of command. Now saying that you’ll probably say you work for yourself or your some revolutionary freedom fighter.
    Also many police offers that are getting in trouble for harming people down there are getting pay checks cut and many of their privileges taken away.

  • Andrew

    Crazy is the new sane.

  • Calypso

    Maybe it will still show up on al jazeera.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K6NO5FNP7VB5N3THNFL64H7HHQ G

    i have been harassed by the police more than one could imagine without ever being a criminal.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K6NO5FNP7VB5N3THNFL64H7HHQ G

    i have been harassed by the police more than one could imagine without ever being a criminal.

  • Anonymous

    Reading this site, I though the Military were all drones. According to the screaming Liberals on here at least.

  • Redacted

    Reading this site, I though the Military were all drones. According to the screaming Liberals on here at least.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Marine, I salute you.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Marine, I salute you.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Marine, I salute you.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Marine, I salute you.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Does Kent State ring a bell to you?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Does Kent State ring a bell to you?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KQRUAZRVVLGGWBDJRHTMX75STU James

    Does Kent State ring a bell to you?

  • Archon