A Ron Paul Economy

Ron PaulWhat would a Ron Paul economy look like? Suzy Khimm connects the dots for the Washington Post:

Ever wonder what Ron Paul’s America would look like? Then read the budget outline that Paul released as part of his 2012 presidential bid. It promises to cut $1 trillion during his first year in office, balance the budget by 2015, withdraw us from all foreign wars and eliminate five Cabinet-level agencies in the process. Economists across the political spectrum say the impact of such drastic government spending cuts would be majorly disruptive and harmful to the economy in the short term.

“At the scale he’s talking about, it’s unlikely you could have an immediate reduction in government without hurtling the economy into recession,” says Kevin Hassett, economic policy director for the American Enterprise Institute and chief economic adviser to John McCain’s 2000 presidential campaign. Hassett maintains that Paul’s plan for a limited government “would be really positive” in the long run. But he also believes that there would be better means to achieving that end. “I think that you could achieve his long-run objectives with less short-run disruptions,” he concludes.

By reducing the deficit from more than $1 trillion to $300 billion in just a year, Paul’s plan would upend the economy at a time when it’s already fragile, says Gus Faucher, director of macroeconomics for Moody’s Analytics. “That much deficit reduction in one year is going to be a huge drag on the economy . . . the reduction in spending is much greater than cuts in taxes,” says Faucher. “We’re seeing that impact in Europe right now, where severe fiscal austerity has caused big problems for the European economy.” While long-term deficit reduction is important, legislators need to make sure that the economy is strong before major cuts take effect, he adds, calling Paul’s plan “much more ambitious” than other Republican proposals to date…

[continues in the Washington Post]

, , ,

137 Responses to A Ron Paul Economy

  1. TestTubeTeacher October 18, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    No!!  Please don’t put any hydrogen peroxide on the wound!!  It’ll sting mom!!!
    Just give me a lollipop and I’m sure I’ll get better.  Just ignore that rotting stench, I’m sure it’ll go away on it’s own.

  2. TestTubeTeacher October 18, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    No!!  Please don’t put any hydrogen peroxide on the wound!!  It’ll sting mom!!!
    Just give me a lollipop and I’m sure I’ll get better.  Just ignore that rotting stench, I’m sure it’ll go away on it’s own.

  3. TestTubeTeacher October 18, 2011 at 9:07 am #

    No!!  Please don’t put any hydrogen peroxide on the wound!!  It’ll sting mom!!!
    Just give me a lollipop and I’m sure I’ll get better.  Just ignore that rotting stench, I’m sure it’ll go away on it’s own.

  4. Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    that may be so.. .but what is up with his eyebrow?  I was watching Real Time With Bill Maher on HBO and he showed a picture of Ron Paul whose eyebrow looked like it was falling off

  5. Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 9:19 am #

    that may be so.. .but what is up with his eyebrow?  I was watching Real Time With Bill Maher on HBO and he showed a picture of Ron Paul whose eyebrow looked like it was falling off

    • RonPaul2012 October 18, 2011 at 9:57 am #

      Really? That’s all you have to contribute? Paul is a bastion of intelligence and integrity yet all you want to discuss are his admittedly wacky eyebrows? Get a clue, dude: our economy is utterly fucked and Paul is one of the few individuals out there who is not afraid to call it like he sees it. Whether you agree or disagree with what he is proposing, at least he thinking outside of the box and refusing to compromise his beliefs for a few more votes… 

      • Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

        yeah our economy is seriously messed up.. just like his eyebrow

      • Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

        oh, and i’m not voting in 2012.. it doesn’t matter who we elect because they will eventually be corrupted by the evil that is Washington d.c.

        • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

          I agree. We had a recent election for Parliament, and i abstained even though we have a social-democrat party (NDP), because if you compare the platforms for the 3 mainstream parties they were nearly the same. Not even a mention of reduced tuition and the NDP candidate is a grad student in mathmatics, 10 years ago the issue would have been NO tuition. We’ve moved so far to the right, it will take more than a superficial course correction than electoral politics would allow- to fix our society.

        • RonPaul2012 October 18, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

          You do realize that Paul has been an elected official for decades and that he does not compromise or cave or flip-flop or make excuses or apologies? When questioned about his voting record, he takes the time to explain why he voted the way he did. The man has something called Integrity…it is refreshing and perhaps confusing for those who are unfamiliar with the concept.

          But you’re not voting…so you don’t give a damn…which is why you are here leaving comments about eyebrows. We are all so very impressed…

          • senorchupacabra October 18, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

            Sometimes flip flopping is good. If you come to learn that you are wrong, you should flip flop. I’ve flip flopped at least three times today after reading an article about dark matter.  If the man hasn’t “flip flopped” in 30 years in office, I find it hard to believe that he hasn’t been wrong on a single issue in 30 years. That or he is incapable of seeing how he is wrong.

            I say all of that as someone who would probably vote for Ron Paul in a general election. Your talking points are fucking stupid.

  6. Zenc October 18, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    All my junkie friends think the solution to their problem is more dope too.

  7. Zenc October 18, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    All my junkie friends think the solution to their problem is more dope too.

  8. RonPaul2012 October 18, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    Really? That’s all you have to contribute? Paul is a bastion of intelligence and integrity yet all you want to discuss are his admittedly wacky eyebrows? Get a clue, dude: our economy is utterly fucked and Paul is one of the few individuals out there who is not afraid to call it like he sees it. Whether you agree or disagree with what he is proposing, at least he thinking outside of the box and refusing to compromise his beliefs for a few more votes… 

  9. CK October 18, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    A Ron Paul economy would look like nothing because he has no intention of getting elected. He has zero accomplishments under his belt after being in government since the 70s. Ask his supporters to name anything he’s done in Congress if you need a good laugh. Paul is all talk, no walk, all hat, no cattle. Stop wasting time on this guy and his monumental ego.

  10. CK October 18, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    A Ron Paul economy would look like nothing because he has no intention of getting elected. He has zero accomplishments under his belt after being in government since the 70s. Ask his supporters to name anything he’s done in Congress if you need a good laugh. Paul is all talk, no walk, all hat, no cattle. Stop wasting time on this guy and his monumental ego.

    • Chaorder Gradient October 18, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

      He fights the status quo, and last time I checked, that is not an easy task to even stick to your guns. Ideas can be more powerful than actions, and some of his accomplishments involve implanting some ideas in the cultural dialogue that would not be there; and I’m sure he’s very thirsty for actually being in a position that he (might) be able to create some changes.

      • Jawasjunk October 18, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

        He fights the status quo…sorry but no. He talks a good game, but his actions speak louder than his pandering words. He is the status quo…

        • emc_0 October 18, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

          “He fights the status quo…sorry but no. He talks a good game, but his
          actions speak louder than his pandering words. He is the status quo..”

          Based on what?
          Check his voting record, check the bills he has submitted, supported, and opposed.. He has always voted to uphold the constitution and individual rights, at every opportunity throughout his career.

          Like any other politician, none of us will agree with him 100% on every issue, but you know what your getting with RP. Your right he does “talk a good game”, and all his actions are inline with what he has said and what he believes in. If you have examples of your accusations, by all means post it for us. Do you even know what pandering means?

          • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

            Yes, it means caving into the inconsistent and schizophrenic demands of christian domionists and the pro-biz set on issues of civil liberties (specifically) that he shouldn’t.

    • 1captainhooker1 October 18, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

      Paul’s solution to everything seems to be “get rid of it”.  I don’t see this as being much different.

      • emc_0 October 18, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

        How else do you expect the budget to be balanced? Magic?

        If there are inefficient, or better yet unconstitutional programs, they need to be cut or reduced. The cuts have to come from somewhere and RP isn’t just spouting off random departments and such. He’s been spreading this message for a long time, and he is basing those cuts on what is allowed by the constitution. And ofcourse the main cut is military expenditures anyway, so.. iraq/afghan/libya soon to be iran war.. yes, lets get rid of em!

        • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

          Aside from the wars (and possibly the fed), which both progressives and ron paul conservatives agree on ending, what makes your list as programs that are unconstitutional?

    • emc_0 October 18, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

      “He has zero accomplishments under his belt after being in government
      since the 70s. Ask his supporters to name anything he’s done in Congress
      if you need a good laugh.”

      We voted for him and will continue to vote for him because:

      He has never voted to raise taxes.
      He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
      He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
      He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
      He has never taken a government-paid junket.
      He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

      He voted against the Patriot Act.
      He voted against regulating the Internet.
      He voted against the Iraq war.

      He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
      He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

      He doesnt flip-flopped on issues, and he’s stuck to his principles the entire 30 years in office. That alone is far more than any other politician can say. Just recently after years and years of busting his ass we finally got an initial audit of the Federal Reserve, and he’s not stopping until theres a full audit. The fed plays a major role in our economy and policy making, and RP was one of the few to rally against them even when others called him loony for questioning the way things are run. The Fed audit is just one example of what he’s accomplished- something most politicians wouldn’t dare speak of, or even worse have a clue about.

      Monumental ego? Now I know your joking.. or maybe just misinformed.
      If you really do research on his policies and voting record, and understand the constitutions role in restricting government (and promoting personal freedom), you’ll be voting RP in 2012.

      • CK October 18, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

        A bunch of no votes? That’s it? Anyone can vote no. What has ever accomplished since the mid 70s? What job-killing trade bills has he stopped in committee? What war votes did he hold up on procedural grounds? What gross examples of corporate welfare did he successfully crusade against?

        WHAT HAS HE ACTUALLY DONE?

        Repeat after me- RON PAUL IS ALL TALK, NO WALK. 

        • emc_0 October 18, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

          “Anyone can vote no.”…. And yet they don’t….

          One man in congress can only do so much- but he tries harder than any other member of congress, even when popular opinion is against him.
          Corporate welfare? He voted no on the bank bailouts.
          He introduced legislation to get us out of the wars- if the other members of congress did not support it along with the other handfuls of legislation he has submitted, what fault is that of his? That’s our fault for electing incompetent politicians he has to try and work with.

          He has done everything and more that he was voted in to do: protect our liberty at every chance. Again, he is at the front when it comes to investigating the federal reserve, which many think is the root of our problems- big government, perpetual war, etc. He is the leader of the end the fed movement.

          My question to you now is: WHAT HAS ANY OTHER CANDIDATE ACTUALLY DONE? WHAT HAS OBAMA DONE?

          Repeating your all talk no walk phrase will not make it come true.
          You seem really interested in politics though, that’s great!

          • CK October 18, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

            Ron Paul IS Obama. He’s Obama for the Bircher/Christer/Conspiracy set.

            Don’t tell me about his purely symbolic no votes. They never made any difference. 

          • emc_0 October 18, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

            “Ron Paul IS Obama.”

            Ok, I see there’s no point in debating you, lol.

          • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

            i believe it was a figurative rather than literal valuation. requiring a deeper reading of CK’s comment rather than merely cursory.

            from what i read, CK is asserting Obama ( and his neo-liberal economic trappings/ fascism 2.0) to be akin (AKIN not the SAME as) to Paul and his adoration (slavish) of free markets and the private sector.

          • CK October 18, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

            What he said.

          • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

            You are asking the WRONG question. It is NOT “what has any OTHER…”

            it is, “what has ANY…”

            the implication being electoral republicanism is horribly broken, and that to frame your arguement around a broken system is incredibly redundant.

  11. RonPaul2012 October 18, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    Great comment from “hookadawg” on the Washington Post article: “To any economist or policy maker that opposes the Ron Paul plan, I
    want to see your economic predictions from 1990-2007. I would actually
    settle for your economic predictions from 1998-2008. If any of you
    predicted the burst of the Nasdaq bubble, the burst of the housing
    bubble, the commodity inflation bubble that we are seeing right now,
    then you have room to talk. If you did not predict any of these, then
    shut your lousy pie hole.”

  12. RonPaul2012 October 18, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    Great comment from “hookadawg” on the Washington Post article: “To any economist or policy maker that opposes the Ron Paul plan, I
    want to see your economic predictions from 1990-2007. I would actually
    settle for your economic predictions from 1998-2008. If any of you
    predicted the burst of the Nasdaq bubble, the burst of the housing
    bubble, the commodity inflation bubble that we are seeing right now,
    then you have room to talk. If you did not predict any of these, then
    shut your lousy pie hole.”

    • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

      I am glad to know that support of the great democratic tradition of dissent is alive and well in the ron paul camp….

      :S

  13. Dueyv9 October 18, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    The economy can’t really get worse than it is. I think it’s only staying afloat because we think the economy is ok. People are definitely spending like it is, and that is the whole basis of this economy. If people were disobeying their president and not buying the next I-phone you would definitely see it in all the store closings around the country. Although that doesn’t really affect us, it is kind of hard to see all the bankruptcies and unemployment that do happen. Hassett says Paul’s economy wouldn’t work without us going into a recession. I say “screw that” we are in a depression already which is only hidden by the Dow Jones which shows how much the top 30 thieves are making money and how everyone else isn’t.

  14. Dueyv9 October 18, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    The economy can’t really get worse than it is. I think it’s only staying afloat because we think the economy is ok. People are definitely spending like it is, and that is the whole basis of this economy. If people were disobeying their president and not buying the next I-phone you would definitely see it in all the store closings around the country. Although that doesn’t really affect us, it is kind of hard to see all the bankruptcies and unemployment that do happen. Hassett says Paul’s economy wouldn’t work without us going into a recession. I say “screw that” we are in a depression already which is only hidden by the Dow Jones which shows how much the top 30 thieves are making money and how everyone else isn’t.

  15. Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    yeah our economy is seriously messed up.. just like his eyebrow

  16. Chaorder Gradient October 18, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    He fights the status quo, and last time I checked, that is not an easy task to even stick to your guns. Ideas can be more powerful than actions, and some of his accomplishments involve implanting some ideas in the cultural dialogue that would not be there; and I’m sure he’s very thirsty for actually being in a position that he (might) be able to create some changes.

  17. Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    oh, and i’m not voting in 2012.. it doesn’t matter who we elect because they will eventually be corrupted by the evil that is Washington d.c.

  18. Heath October 18, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    Really Violet..Really?

    I was thinking of “America is” when I saw your name. Gordon is on his way over to shave off your eyebrows..

    • Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

      that’s a recurring nightmare for me…  i look in the mirror and i’m missing a tooth.. or an eyebrow..     i was being facetious but nevermind!   I see you guys are deadly serious and have no time for my low brow sense of humor

      • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

        low brow or “no” brow:P

  19. Heath October 18, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Really Violet..Really?

    I was thinking of “America is” when I saw your name. Gordon is on his way over to shave off your eyebrows..

  20. Vi0let_femme October 18, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    that’s a recurring nightmare for me…  i look in the mirror and i’m missing a tooth.. or an eyebrow..     i was being facetious but nevermind!   I see you guys are deadly serious and have no time for my low brow sense of humor

  21. Rooti October 18, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    Go Ron Paul. Not only will this guy end the war but he will begin reducing the size of the bloated Federal Government. This type of action is long overdue and will not even be attempted by Democrats or mainstream Republicans. Ron Paul is simply the last chance for saving this republic. While Democrats and Republicans alike are calling for war with Iran over a phony terror plot Ron Paul says bring all the troops home. 

    • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

      As someone whom has been noted to be radically progressive throughout my disqus life, I often discuss the difference between a republic/representative electoral politics and democracy. What i find fascinating is that the left is FAR more interested in the exploration of direct or deep democracy, and the right only concedes to defend the republic which they have.

      Either you have democracy or you don’t. Ron Paul is simply a crutch onto which the system, as it stands (in all it’s bloody and ashen glory) , will utilise to perpetuate itself. It would lead to further transgressions against the environment and human rights.

      • Mr Willow October 18, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

        the left is FAR more interested in the exploration of direct or deep democracy

        I certainly am.

  22. Rooti October 18, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Go Ron Paul. Not only will this guy end the war but he will begin reducing the size of the bloated Federal Government. This type of action is long overdue and will not even be attempted by Democrats or mainstream Republicans. Ron Paul is simply the last chance for saving this republic. While Democrats and Republicans alike are calling for war with Iran over a phony terror plot Ron Paul says bring all the troops home. 

  23. GoodDoktorBad October 18, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Ron Paul or no Ron Paul, “withdraw(ing) us from all foreign wars” would save an amazing amount of money.
    Enough to put the country back to work on public works projects, education etc. 

    Ending war is a key to prosperity, period. 

    • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

      Yes!!!

       x 2.

    • Elmyr Hope October 18, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

      Yes, and reduce all the Pantagon spending as well to 1/4 of todays budget, there you’ll have 2 trillion dollars in only 3 years.

  24. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    Ron Paul or no Ron Paul, “withdraw(ing) us from all foreign wars” would save an amazing amount of money.
    Enough to put the country back to work on public works projects, education etc. 

    Ending war is a key to prosperity, period. 

  25. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    Paul’s solution to everything seems to be “get rid of it”.  I don’t see this as being much different.

  26. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    Yes!!!

     x 2.

  27. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    I agree. We had a recent election for Parliament, and i abstained even though we have a social-democrat party (NDP), because if you compare the platforms for the 3 mainstream parties they were nearly the same. Not even a mention of reduced tuition and the NDP candidate is a grad student in mathmatics, 10 years ago the issue would have been NO tuition. We’ve moved so far to the right, it will take more than a superficial course correction that electoral politics would allow to fix our society.

  28. Vespelmadeenterror October 18, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    you morons. ron paul is not a corrupt politician. what must you be to achieve anything now? you must be corrupt. he doesn’t take shit from anyone.dear ron paul, shoot all the cattle and sheep plz. thank you.

    • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

      The problem i think progressives have with ron paul (including myself) and his supporters is demonstrated above, by the advocacy of systemic violence against dissenters and inerudite posts that parallel your brethern on the far right.

      Dissent IS democracy. You can be sure to NOT get left wing support if what you aspire to is simply an unquestioning reverance of guns, flags and crosses already prevelant in american politics.

  29. Vespelmadeenterror October 18, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    you morons. ron paul is not a corrupt politician. what must you be to achieve anything now? you must be corrupt. he doesn’t take shit from anyone.dear ron paul, shoot all the cattle and sheep plz. thank you.

  30. Emilylupu October 18, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Yes..war is profitable..and our country is greedy..its people, expendable

  31. Emilylupu October 18, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    Yes..war is profitable..and our country is greedy..its people, expendable

  32. Elmyr Hope October 18, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    Yes, and reduce all the Pantagon spending as well to 1/4 of todays budget, there you’ll have 2 trillion dollars in only 3 years.

  33. BrianApocalypse October 18, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    If the country adopts the hippie principles of not fighting wars and legalizing weed, we’d take one huge step to fixing the economy.

  34. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    If the country adopts the hippie principles of not fighting wars and legalizing weed, we’d take one huge step to fixing the economy.

  35. Jawasjunk October 18, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    He fights the status quo…sorry but no. He talks a good game, but his actions speak louder than his pandering words. He is the status quo…

  36. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    “He fights the status quo…sorry but no. He talks a good game, but his
    actions speak louder than his pandering words. He is the status quo..”

    Based on what?
    Check his voting record, check the bills he has submitted, supported, and opposed.. He has always voted to uphold the constitution and individual rights, at every opportunity throughout his career.

    Like any other politician, none of us will agree with him 100% on every issue, but you know what your getting with RP. Your right he does “talk a good game”, and all his actions are inline with what he has said and what he believes in. If you have examples of your accusations, by all means post it for us. Do you even know what pandering means?

  37. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    How else do you expect the budget to be balanced? Magic?

    If there are inefficient, or better yet unconstitutional programs, they need to be cut or reduced. The cuts have to come from somewhere and RP isn’t just spouting off random departments and such. He’s been spreading this message for a long time, and he is basing those cuts on what is allowed by the constitution. And ofcourse the main cut is military expenditures anyway, so.. iraq/afghan/libya soon to be iran war.. yes, lets get rid of em!

  38. brock October 18, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    If only there were a candidate that had Paul’s qualities of forthrightness, consistency and practicality with regards to the military and police state we have in this country, but without the dark side of his two religions, Jesus and Capitalism. Someone who cares at least half as much about the welfare of our society as he cares about free enterprise and someone who doesn’t think the church could easily replace all of our social services. I’d prefer to see more schools, libraries and Planned Parenthoods that more churches.

    • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

      agreed.

    • Anon October 18, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

      dennis kucinich ?

      • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

        Progressive in rhetoric? YES!

        reliably progressive in action? No.

    • VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

      amen bro…amen. We have so many churches they’re operating out of houses and stores and even warehouse space when they can’t afford a building. Even our sects have sects. With more churches than ever before in history…we’re still in a world of hurt that even they can’t fix…there is no reason to imagine that they could or would step up to the plate and somehow manage to solve all our ills once govt is out of the picture. Govt, in the hands of people committed to using it wisely and well, is large enough and widespread enough to make a powerful difference for the better. Our problem is not govt itself…but the horrifying wreckage of human beings that presently populate it…and the total absence of conscience on their part. In this respect, government is like a car. If someone sane and sober is driving…its a damned fine way to get from place to place safely…but if a homicidal alcoholic who believes they are immortal is behind the wheel…its a couple tons of mobile death careening down the road. The problem isn’t the car…its the drivers. 

      • emc_0 October 18, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

        Your right, there are terrible human beings in our political system running things. And there will always be untrustworthy, selfish folks who run and are elected to office. This is why government should not be involved so heavily in every aspect of our lives, and government needs to be kept as small as possible while maintaining its duties as outlined in the constitution.

        “Someone who cares at least half as much about the welfare of our society as he cares about free enterprise”

        It’s because of his care of society that he wants to promote free enterprise. Government involvement does not improve most situations, it just ends up picking winners and losers, and making the citizens pay for it when it all crumbles, like the bank bailouts.

        LUCKILY! His plan is focused on economic policy, and he does not touch social security, veteran benefits, and other welfare programs. Instead he is focusing on ending the wars as the main reduction of debt. No one who is dependant on these programs will be “left out in the cold”. So now all of you who are worried about him bringing an end to the welfare state can breath a sigh of relief and start thinking about supporting someone who’ll actually balance the budget!

        • VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

          Like I mentioned in my other post…checks and balances are the answer…and they used to work great…except during the eras where we removed them. Then we suffered…then we put the checks and balances back.We have forgotten much…and now we suffer again. A tiny govt is only a friend to powerful business and wealthy individuals…because it has no power to check them for the benefit of people. Replace ‘wealthy’ with ‘nobles’ and you get the history of feudalism for over a thousand years…much of which consisted of the ‘Dark Ages’…when the fractious nobility fought to keep monarchs from exerting power over them. Side note: all of those nations with weak central power…collapsed and crashed completely.

          You have a very optimistic view of free enterprise…which by its very nature runs to the furthest extreme allowed to it…and always…always…always ends badly. I appreciate your enthusiasm…and as I mentioned in another post I respect Paul mostly because of his complete commitment to his beliefs and his vocal honesty about them. I just happen to disagree completely when it comes to libertarian-ism and free enterprise.

          There has never been a truly ‘free market’…anywhere…ever. There are always controls on capitalism. What those controls are and who decides them is all that is up for debate. Essentially…it comes down to this…capitalism is a maniac who can only be trusted while under heavy controls and supervision. Take the supervision away…and you get bodies piling up…every single time. We’ve had controls in place for so long that most folks can’t remember a time when we didn’t…that time only exists in history books…but if you crack those books and have a peek…you can see why those controls are in place. Why laws and regulations came into being…because people literally begged for them out of desperation.

          Keeping those checks and balances in place is the responsibility of a government…and while it may govern best when it governs least…that ideal fails when so many people make it necessary to govern more. If a criminal will not stop committing crimes…law must intercede. If a corporation will not stop its crimes…law must intercede. Not because we want it to…but because the other choice is unchecked anarchy. 

          So maybe we grow a generation of people so moral and ethical that they require no supervision…and THEN we can transition away from government involvement…but here and now we have a den of thieves that cheers for free markets…AND has purchased the obedience of our legislature and courts. The actual problem is that our leadership has BECOME a ‘free market’ of sorts…where the wealthy purchase the allegiance of our elected officials (which is how we got bailouts…not because of socialism or communism…but because the free marketeers bought and paid our congress to give them the rest of our tax dollars). If we put a stop to that state of affairs first and foremost…a lot of our other problems become a lot smaller.

  39. brock October 18, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    If only there were a candidate that had Paul’s qualities of forthrightness, consistency and practicality with regards to the military and police state we have in this country, but without the dark side of his two religions, Jesus and Capitalism. Someone who cares at least half as much about the welfare of our society as he cares about free enterprise and someone who doesn’t think the church could easily replace all of our social services. I’d prefer to see more schools, libraries and Planned Parenthoods that more churches.

  40. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    “He has zero accomplishments under his belt after being in government
    since the 70s. Ask his supporters to name anything he’s done in Congress
    if you need a good laugh.”

    We voted for him and will continue to vote for him because:

    He has never voted to raise taxes.
    He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
    He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
    He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
    He has never taken a government-paid junket.
    He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

    He voted against the Patriot Act.
    He voted against regulating the Internet.
    He voted against the Iraq war.

    He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
    He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

    He doesnt flip-flopped on issues, and he’s stuck to his principles the entire 30 years in office. That alone is far more than any other politician can say. Just recently after years and years of busting his ass we finally got an initial audit of the Federal Reserve, and he’s not stopping until theres a full audit. The fed plays a major role in our economy and policy making, and RP was one of the few to rally against them even when others called him loony for questioning the way things are run. The Fed audit is just one example of what he’s accomplished- something most politicians wouldn’t dare speak of, or even worse have a clue about.

    Monumental ego? Now I know your joking.. or maybe just misinformed.
    If you really do research on his policies and voting record, and understand the constitutions role in restricting government (and promoting personal freedom), you’ll be voting RP in 2012.

  41. CK October 18, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    A bunch of no votes? That’s it? Anyone can vote no. What has ever accomplished since the mid 70s? What job-killing trade bills has he stopped in committee? What war votes did he hold up on procedural grounds? What gross examples of corporate welfare did he successfully crusade against?

    WHAT HAS HE ACTUALLY DONE?

    Repeat after me- RON PAUL IS ALL TALK, NO WALK. 

  42. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    agreed.

  43. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    Aside from the wars (and possibly the fed), which both progressives and ron paul conservatives agree on ending, what makes your list as programs that are unconstitutional?

  44. Anon October 18, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    dennis kucinich ?

  45. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:17 pm #

    Progressive in rhetoric? YES!

    reliably progressive in action? No.

  46. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    The problem i think progressives have with ron paul (including myself) and his supporters is demonstrated above, by the advocacy of systemic violence against dissenters and inerudite posts that parallel your brethern on the far right.

    Dissent IS democracy. You can be sure to NOT get left wing support if what you aspire to is simply an unquestioning reverance of guns, flags and crosses already prevelant in american politics.

  47. RonPaul2012 October 18, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    You do realize that Paul has been an elected official for decades and that he does not compromise or cave or flip-flop or make excuses or apologies? When questioned about his voting record, he takes the time to explain why he voted the way he did. The man has something called Integrity…it is refreshing and perhaps confusing for those who are unfamiliar with the concept.

    But you’re not voting…so you don’t give a damn…which is why you are here leaving comments about eyebrows. We are all so very impressed…

  48. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    “Anyone can vote no.”…. And yet they don’t….

    One man in congress can only do so much- but he tries harder than any other member of congress, even when popular opinion is against him.
    Corporate welfare? He voted no on the bank bailouts.
    He introduced legislation to get us out of the wars- if the other members of congress did not support it along with the other handfuls of legislation he has submitted, what fault is that of his? That’s our fault for electing incompetent politicians he has to try and work with.

    He has done everything and more that he was voted in to do: protect our liberty at every chance. Again, he is at the front when it comes to investigating the federal reserve, which many think is the root of our problems- big government, perpetual war, etc. He is the leader of the end the fed movement.

    My question to you now is: WHAT HAS ANY OTHER CANDIDATE ACTUALLY DONE? WHAT HAS OBAMA DONE?

    Repeating your all talk no walk phrase will not make it come true.
    You seem really interested in politics though, that’s great!

  49. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    As someone whom has been noted to be radically progressive throughout my disqus life, I often discuss the difference between a republic/representative electoral politics and democracy. What i find fascinating is that the left is FAR more interested in the exploration of direct or deep democracy, and the right only concedes to defend the republic which they have.

    Either you have democracy or you don’t. Ron Paul is simply a crutch onto which the system, as it stands (in all it’s bloody and ashen glory) , will utilise to perpetuate itself. It would lead to further transgressions against the environment and human rights.

  50. CK October 18, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    Ron Paul IS Obama. He’s Obama for the Bircher/Christer/Conspiracy set.

    Don’t tell me about his purely symbolic no votes. They never made any difference. 

  51. VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    Oh the paradoxical world of Paul-ism. It really puts a fellow in a bind. I like the guy…on a strictly personal level…not a political one. I like him because he is the most forthright and direct voice is Congress today. This isn’t actually saying much…since a monkey with Tourette’s flinging poop in every direction is still more direct and honest (and coherent) than most of our current congresspersons…but Paul still stands out in an era of complete liars because he dares to break with his own party and press his own views without fear of consequences…and there have been heavy consequences for that honesty. Opposing our needless wars and gutting the pet projects of militant interventionists who want a permanent war-state to keep their industry buddies flush with loot is a recipe for making lots of enemies on the hill…and the media has treated the man like he doesn’t even exist (Ron who?) for decades. Anyone who bucks the system gets a nod from me just on principle…

    …but that isn’t the same as putting forward good policies. Libertarian ism as its practiced today is little better than a backhanded giveaway to corporations…which already have a degree of power that is unprecedented in the past century (but similar to the century before…when people called them robber-barons and actually fought small civil wars to combat them). Civil libertarians are excellent in most respects, because we should always labor to keep government in check…but it makes precious little difference if non-govt agents grow so powerful that they can abuse people with impunity as if they were govt at its worst. That system of checks and balances has to safeguard the individual…against other individuals…corporate or otherwise…or the entire point is lost.

    So for Mr. Paul…I will always, always, always applaud and support his efforts to speak openly and loudly on issues that our media magnates and power players would rather avoid…but its also okay to respect and like a person…AND disagree with them.  

    • Jin The Ninja October 18, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

      co-signed!

    • Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 3:37 am #

      So stopping bailouts, ending the Federal Reserve, with its inflationary policy destroying savings and its assistance to failing banks, and getting rid of corporate welfare is all to help…. Big Business?  

      There are two kinds of businesses, corporate or not.  The first is a corporation that obtains power only through the voluntary actions of the consumer buying their product – a company like Apple or Standard Oil.  This power can be taken away by consumer action as well, by boycotts and similar action.  The other, and the problem now, is the corporation that suckles at the teat of the State, gorging on bailouts, subsidies, and tax breaks – a company like Robert Fulton’s steamship operation or General Motors and General Electric over the last few decades.  Libertarianism, as espoused by Dr. Paul, supports the former while cutting off the supply of funds and assistance to the later.

  52. VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Oh the paradoxical world of Paul-ism. It really puts a fellow in a bind. I like the guy…on a strictly personal level…not a political one. I like him because he is the most forthright and direct voice is Congress today. This isn’t actually saying much…since a monkey with Tourette’s flinging poop in every direction is still more direct and honest (and coherent) than most of our current congresspersons…but Paul still stands out in an era of complete liars because he dares to break with his own party and press his own views without fear of consequences…and there have been heavy consequences for that honesty. Opposing our needless wars and gutting the pet projects of militant interventionists who want a permanent war-state to keep their industry buddies flush with loot is a recipe for making lots of enemies on the hill…and the media has treated the man like he doesn’t even exist (Ron who?) for decades. Anyone who bucks the system gets a nod from me just on principle…

    …but that isn’t the same as putting forward good policies. Libertarian ism as its practiced today is little better than a backhanded giveaway to corporations…which already have a degree of power that is unprecedented in the past century (but similar to the century before…when people called them robber-barons and actually fought small civil wars to combat them). Civil libertarians are excellent in most respects, because we should always labor to keep government in check…but it makes precious little difference if non-govt agents grow so powerful that they can abuse people with impunity as if they were govt at its worst. That system of checks and balances has to safeguard the individual…against other individuals…corporate or otherwise…or the entire point is lost.

    So for Mr. Paul…I will always, always, always applaud and support his efforts to speak openly and loudly on issues that our media magnates and power players would rather avoid…but its also okay to respect and like a person…AND disagree with them.  

  53. VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Oh the paradoxical world of Paul-ism. It really puts a fellow in a bind. I like the guy…on a strictly personal level…not a political one. I like him because he is the most forthright and direct voice is Congress today. This isn’t actually saying much…since a monkey with Tourette’s flinging poop in every direction is still more direct and honest (and coherent) than most of our current congresspersons…but Paul still stands out in an era of complete liars because he dares to break with his own party and press his own views without fear of consequences…and there have been heavy consequences for that honesty. Opposing our needless wars and gutting the pet projects of militant interventionists who want a permanent war-state to keep their industry buddies flush with loot is a recipe for making lots of enemies on the hill…and the media has treated the man like he doesn’t even exist (Ron who?) for decades. Anyone who bucks the system gets a nod from me just on principle…

    …but that isn’t the same as putting forward good policies. Libertarian ism as its practiced today is little better than a backhanded giveaway to corporations…which already have a degree of power that is unprecedented in the past century (but similar to the century before…when people called them robber-barons and actually fought small civil wars to combat them). Civil libertarians are excellent in most respects, because we should always labor to keep government in check…but it makes precious little difference if non-govt agents grow so powerful that they can abuse people with impunity as if they were govt at its worst. That system of checks and balances has to safeguard the individual…against other individuals…corporate or otherwise…or the entire point is lost.

    So for Mr. Paul…I will always, always, always applaud and support his efforts to speak openly and loudly on issues that our media magnates and power players would rather avoid…but its also okay to respect and like a person…AND disagree with them.  

  54. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    I am glad to know that support of the great democratic tradition of dissent is alive and well in the ron paul camp….

    :S

  55. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    I am glad to know that support of the great democratic tradition of dissent is alive and well in the ron paul camp….

    :S

  56. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    co-signed!

  57. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    co-signed!

  58. CK October 18, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    Here’s a bracing deflating of the Ron Paul balloon- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-dnvbs0v-E&feature=autoshare

  59. CK October 18, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Here’s a bracing deflating of the Ron Paul balloon- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-dnvbs0v-E&feature=autoshare

  60. CK October 18, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Here’s a bracing deflating of the Ron Paul balloon- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-dnvbs0v-E&feature=autoshare

  61. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    You are asking the WRONG question. It is NOT “what has any OTHER…”

    it is, “what has ANY…”

    the implication being electoral republicanism is horribly broken, and that to frame your arguement around a broken system is incredibly redundant.

  62. VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    amen bro…amen. We have so many churches they’re operating out of houses and stores and even warehouse space when they can’t afford a building. Even our sects have sects. With more churches than ever before in history…we’re still in a world of hurt that even they can’t fix…there is no reason to imagine that they could or would step up to the plate and somehow manage to solve all our ills once govt is out of the picture. Govt, in the hands of people committed to using it wisely and well, is large enough and widespread enough to make a powerful difference for the better. Our problem is not govt itself…but the horrifying wreckage of human beings that presently populate it…and the total absence of conscience on their part. In this respect, government is like a car. If someone sane and sober is driving…its a damned fine way to get from place to place safely…but if a homicidal alcoholic who believes they are immortal is behind the wheel…its a couple tons of mobile death careening down the road. The problem isn’t the car…its the drivers. 

  63. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    “Ron Paul IS Obama.”

    Ok, I see there’s no point in debating you, lol.

  64. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    i believe it was a figurative rather than literal valuation. requiring a deeper reading of CK’s comment rather than merely cursory.

    from what i read, CK is asserting Obama ( and his neo-liberal economic trappings/ fascism 2.0) to be akin (AKIN not the SAME as) to Paul and his adoration (slavish) of free markets and the private sector.

  65. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    Your right, there are terrible human beings in our political system running things. And there will always be untrustworthy, selfish folks who run and are elected to office. This is why government should not be involved so heavily in every aspect of our lives, and government needs to be kept as small as possible while maintaining its duties as outlined in the constitution.

    “Someone who cares at least half as much about the welfare of our society as he cares about free enterprise”

    It’s because of his care of society that he wants to promote free enterprise. Government involvement does not improve most situations, it just ends up picking winners and losers, and making the citizens pay for it when it all crumbles, like the bank bailouts.

    LUCKILY! His plan is focused on economic policy, and he does not touch social security, veteran benefits, and other welfare programs. Instead he is focusing on ending the wars as the main reduction of debt. No one who is dependant on these programs will be “left out in the cold”. So now all of you who are worried about him bringing an end to the welfare state can breath a sigh of relief and start thinking about supporting someone who’ll actually balance the budget!

  66. VoxMagi October 18, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    Like I mentioned in my other post…checks and balances are the answer…and they used to work great…except during the eras where we removed them. Then we suffered…then we put the checks and balances back.We have forgotten much…and now we suffer again. A tiny govt is only a friend to powerful business and wealthy individuals…because it has no power to check them for the benefit of people. Replace ‘wealthy’ with ‘nobles’ and you get the history of feudalism for over a thousand years…much of which consisted of the ‘Dark Ages’…when the fractious nobility fought to keep monarchs from exerting power over them. Side note: all of those nations with weak central power…collapsed and crashed completely.

    You have a very optimistic view of free enterprise…which by its very nature runs to the furthest extreme allowed to it…and always…always…always ends badly. I appreciate your enthusiasm…and as I mentioned in another post I respect Paul mostly because of his complete commitment to his beliefs and his vocal honesty about them. I just happen to disagree completely when it comes to libertarian-ism and free enterprise.

    There has never been a truly ‘free market’…anywhere…ever. There are always controls on capitalism. What those controls are and who decides them is all that is up for debate. Essentially…it comes down to this…capitalism is a maniac who can only be trusted while under heavy controls and supervision. Take the supervision away…and you get bodies piling up…every single time. We’ve had controls in place for so long that most folks can’t remember a time when we didn’t…that time only exists in history books…but if you crack those books and have a peek…you can see why those controls are in place. Why laws and regulations came into being…because people literally begged for them out of desperation.

    Keeping those checks and balances in place is the responsibility of a government…and while it may govern best when it governs least…that ideal fails when so many people make it necessary to govern more. If a criminal will not stop committing crimes…law must intercede. If a corporation will not stop its crimes…law must intercede. Not because we want it to…but because the other choice is unchecked anarchy. 

    So maybe we grow a generation of people so moral and ethical that they require no supervision…and THEN we can transition away from government involvement…but here and now we have a den of thieves that cheers for free markets…AND has purchased the obedience of our legislature and courts. The actual problem is that our leadership has BECOME a ‘free market’ of sorts…where the wealthy purchase the allegiance of our elected officials (which is how we got bailouts…not because of socialism or communism…but because the free marketeers bought and paid our congress to give them the rest of our tax dollars). If we put a stop to that state of affairs first and foremost…a lot of our other problems become a lot smaller.

  67. Joseph October 18, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    Sometimes flip flopping is good. If you come to learn that you are wrong, you should flip flop. I’ve flip flopped at least three times today after reading an article about dark matter.  If the man hasn’t “flip flopped” in 30 years in office, I find it hard to believe that he hasn’t been wrong on a single issue in 30 years. That or he is incapable of seeing how he is wrong.

    I say all of that as someone who would probably vote for Ron Paul in a general election. Your talking points are fucking stupid.

  68. Anonymous October 18, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    low brow or “no” brow:P

  69. CK October 19, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    What he said.

  70. Anonymous October 19, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    Yes, it means caving into the inconsistent and schizophrenic demands of christian domionists and the pro-biz set on issues of civil liberties (specifically) that he shouldn’t.

  71. Mr Willow October 19, 2011 at 3:20 am #

    the left is FAR more interested in the exploration of direct or deep democracy

    I certainly am.

  72. Mr Willow October 19, 2011 at 3:20 am #

    the left is FAR more interested in the exploration of direct or deep democracy

    I certainly am.

  73. Jeff Schmelzer October 19, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    Yes you’re right.  We should just let the FED to continue giving trillions of dollars to foreign investors.  What are you people smoking? 

  74. Jeff Schmelzer October 19, 2011 at 4:45 am #

    Yes you’re right.  We should just let the FED to continue giving trillions of dollars to foreign investors.  What are you people smoking? 

  75. Anonymous October 19, 2011 at 7:07 am #

    Where do I start with Ron Paul?

    Where do I end with him?

    He is a moron, and his followers are deluded fools. He will indeed increase our Liberty – by selling out the last vestiges of our Society to the highest bidder. We call people like that Traitors where I am from, and we admit they value only their own liberty.

    Ayn Rand has taught the parasite known as Ron Paul well.

  76. Redacted October 19, 2011 at 3:07 am #

    Where do I start with Ron Paul?

    Where do I end with him?

    He is a moron, and his followers are deluded fools. He will indeed increase our Liberty – by selling out the last vestiges of our Society to the highest bidder. We call people like that Traitors where I am from, and we admit they value only their own liberty.

    Ayn Rand has taught the parasite known as Ron Paul well.

    • JMorcan November 11, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

      “Ayn Rand has taught the parasite known as Ron Paul well.”

      Ayn Rand was not an anarchist. Her writings teach us that government’s moral purpose is to deter the violation of individual rights. She also made it clear that legitimate capitalism requires that we do business with others strictly on an honest and voluntary basis. The latter means trade with authoritarian states is not free trade. Selling or buying from such countries (including China) is a clear violation of Ayn Rand’s most fundamental principles. This is the fatal error in the Libertarian posture, and it is one which Ron Paul cannot escape.

       
              
       

      • Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 3:32 am #

        So people suffering under authoritarian states should be left to die?  Trading with individuals, even those suffering under totalitarian rule, is still free trade, just as it is still free trade to sell someone a necessity for survival that they cannot get anywhere else.  And if the authoritarian regime prevents free trade, that’s on them – not on the libertarian capitalists attempting to trade with, again, INDIVIDUALS in these states.

    • Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 3:29 am #

      “selling out the last vestiges of our Society to the highest bidder”

      How, pray tell, does following the Constitution do this?

  77. mike October 19, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    ““That much deficit reduction in one year is going to be a huge drag on the economy . . .”

    This all you need to read of the Keynesians and their macro-magic pill that has destroyed our dollar…Thanks you freaking idiots.

  78. mike October 19, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    ““That much deficit reduction in one year is going to be a huge drag on the economy . . .”

    This all you need to read of the Keynesians and their macro-magic pill that has destroyed our dollar…Thanks you freaking idiots.

  79. mike October 19, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    ““That much deficit reduction in one year is going to be a huge drag on the economy . . .”

    This all you need to read of the Keynesians and their macro-magic pill that has destroyed our dollar…Thanks you freaking idiots.

  80. mole_face October 19, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    Like everything else that’s been shoved down our throats by the phony disinfotainment “alternative media” led by Alex Jones and his kind, Ron Paul is probably pushing a covert pro-establishment agenda.

    I always found it suspicious that Alex Jones seemed to be going out of his way to insert militia Bircher bullshit into legitimate 911 skepticism in the wake of 911. Then as soon as Obama was installed in office, Fox News and Glenn Beck immediately began parroting the vast majority of the same talking points as Alex Jones, as if they were now running off the same basic psychogically manipulative disinfo script.

    Since then, it’s seemed obvious to me that the barrage of ultra-right-wing disinformation that successfully made “Patriot” bullshit synonymous with 911 skepticism has gone mainstream entirely be design. Suddenly Fox News is the 24 hour conspiracy channel, “ex” Navy douche Jesse Ventura gets a cartoonish show called “Conspiracy Theory”, this libertarian-leaning Tea Party farce gets set up as an obvious corporate-sponsored controlled opposition, etc.

    The fact that there’s been a gradual normalization of weed in the media makes me suspect that this is all about bolstering public support for a return to some sort of far right, libertarian-ish conservative regime to placate us. Now all the dissidents are supposed to pump all our energies into supporting some candidate from the ultra-right, just because his stance on weed is reasonable? Fuck THAT!

    • Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 3:28 am #

      How, exactly, does one push a “covert pro-establishment agenda”?  Especially given that Paul has been in Congress for 30 years making impassioned speeches against both the drug war and for various other anti-establishment, libertarian positions.  He is the most incorruptible man in the system, by far.

  81. fuzzgun October 19, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Like everything else that’s been shoved down our throats by the phony disinfotainment “alternative media” led by Alex Jones and his kind, Ron Paul is probably pushing a covert pro-establishment agenda.

    I always found it suspicious that Alex Jones seemed to be going out of his way to insert militia Bircher bullshit into legitimate 911 skepticism in the wake of 911. Then as soon as Obama was installed in office, Fox News and Glenn Beck immediately began parroting the vast majority of the same talking points as Alex Jones, as if they were now running off the same basic psychogically manipulative disinfo script.

    Since then, it’s seemed obvious to me that the barrage of ultra-right-wing disinformation that successfully made “Patriot” bullshit synonymous with 911 skepticism has gone mainstream entirely be design. Suddenly Fox News is the 24 hour conspiracy channel, “ex” Navy douche Jesse Ventura gets a cartoonish show called “Conspiracy Theory”, this libertarian-leaning Tea Party farce gets set up as an obvious corporate-sponsored controlled opposition, etc.

    The fact that there’s been a gradual normalization of weed in the media makes me suspect that this is all about bolstering public support for a return to some sort of far right, libertarian-ish conservative regime to placate us. Now all the dissidents are supposed to pump all our energies into supporting some candidate from the ultra-right, just because his stance on weed is reasonable? Fuck THAT!

  82. fuzzgun October 19, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Like everything else that’s been shoved down our throats by the phony disinfotainment “alternative media” led by Alex Jones and his kind, Ron Paul is probably pushing a covert pro-establishment agenda.

    I always found it suspicious that Alex Jones seemed to be going out of his way to insert militia Bircher bullshit into legitimate 911 skepticism in the wake of 911. Then as soon as Obama was installed in office, Fox News and Glenn Beck immediately began parroting the vast majority of the same talking points as Alex Jones, as if they were now running off the same basic psychogically manipulative disinfo script.

    Since then, it’s seemed obvious to me that the barrage of ultra-right-wing disinformation that successfully made “Patriot” bullshit synonymous with 911 skepticism has gone mainstream entirely be design. Suddenly Fox News is the 24 hour conspiracy channel, “ex” Navy douche Jesse Ventura gets a cartoonish show called “Conspiracy Theory”, this libertarian-leaning Tea Party farce gets set up as an obvious corporate-sponsored controlled opposition, etc.

    The fact that there’s been a gradual normalization of weed in the media makes me suspect that this is all about bolstering public support for a return to some sort of far right, libertarian-ish conservative regime to placate us. Now all the dissidents are supposed to pump all our energies into supporting some candidate from the ultra-right, just because his stance on weed is reasonable? Fuck THAT!

  83. ben October 23, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    why are you linking to neocon WaPo?  the economist they quote is a former mccain advisor from the american enterprise institute.  the same super-hawkish AEI that advocates world-wide american mercantilism and empire, gave a legitimate-looking “economist’s” gleam to the propaganda campaign for the iraq war and still maintains that all US foreign interventions are net benefits for the US economy.  no matter how bad u think RP econ policy is, AEI’s is far worse.  are we supposed to take this seriously?  people who’ve been wrong about literally everything else should somehow command respect when smearing ron paul?  if you’re looking for an RP critique don’t get it from AEI war party apologists, get it from the nation or alternet or virtually anywhere else.  you can hate ron paul all you want, but you should hate WaPo and AEI more

  84. ben October 23, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    why are you linking to neocon WaPo?  the economist they quote is a former mccain advisor from the american enterprise institute.  the same super-hawkish AEI that advocates world-wide american mercantilism and empire, gave a legitimate-looking “economist’s” gleam to the propaganda campaign for the iraq war and still maintains that all US foreign interventions are net benefits for the US economy.  no matter how bad u think RP econ policy is, AEI’s is far worse.  are we supposed to take this seriously?  people who’ve been wrong about literally everything else should somehow command respect when smearing ron paul?  if you’re looking for an RP critique don’t get it from AEI war party apologists, get it from the nation or alternet or virtually anywhere else.  you can hate ron paul all you want, but you should hate WaPo and AEI more

  85. warwitheastasia October 23, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    why are you linking to neocon WaPo?  the economist they quote is a former mccain advisor from the american enterprise institute.  the same super-hawkish AEI that advocates world-wide american mercantilism and empire, gave a legitimate-looking “economist’s” gleam to the propaganda campaign for the iraq war and still maintains that all US foreign interventions are net benefits for the US economy.  no matter how bad u think RP econ policy is, AEI’s is far worse.  are we supposed to take this seriously?  people who’ve been wrong about literally everything else should somehow command respect when smearing ron paul?  if you’re looking for an RP critique don’t get it from AEI war party apologists, get it from the nation or alternet or virtually anywhere else.  you can hate ron paul all you want, but you should hate WaPo and AEI more

  86. JMorcan November 10, 2011 at 2:55 am #

    It’s worse than this. The majority of our current crisis (indeed made worse by recent government intervention) is due to Western losses in manufacturing and service jobs to China and India. The Western economic system has been destroyed by hundreds of millions of offshore workers entering the global workplace at $0.50/hr. Unfortunately, probably due to the narrow minded Libertarian interpretation of “free trade,” Ron Paul continues to eschew anything other than open trade. That means he will be unable to effectively address the most central issues relative to unemployment and economic collapse.

    • Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 3:24 am #

      Nonsense.  Paul supports using tariffs on imports, provided they are equal for all countries and industries.  He also supports getting rid of the reason for the shipping of jobs overseas – excessive regulation and taxation on industrial and manufacturing jobs, as well as other jobs.  That won’t bring them all back, but it would alleviate the problem.  As you say yourself, the problem is made worse by government intervention, and the only significant cutbacks to that intervention would come under a President Paul.

  87. Anonymous November 10, 2011 at 6:55 am #

    It’s worse than this. The majority of our current crisis (indeed made worse by recent government intervention) is due to Western losses in manufacturing and service jobs to China and India. The Western economic system has been destroyed by hundreds of millions of offshore workers entering the global workplace at $0.50/hr. Unfortunately, probably due to the narrow minded Libertarian interpretation of “free trade,” Ron Paul continues to eschew anything other than open trade. That means he will be unable to effectively address the most central issues relative to unemployment and economic collapse.

  88. Anonymous November 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm #

    “Ayn Rand has taught the parasite known as Ron Paul well.”

    Ayn Rand was not an anarchist. Her writings teach us that government’s moral purpose is to deter the violation of individual rights. She also made it clear that legitimate capitalism requires that we do business with others strictly on an honest and voluntary basis. The latter means trade with authoritarian states is not free trade. Selling or buying from such countries (including China) is a clear violation of Ayn Rand’s most fundamental principles. This is the fatal error in the Libertarian posture, and it is one which Ron Paul cannot escape.

     
            
     

  89. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:24 am #

    Nonsense.  Paul supports using tariffs on imports, provided they are equal for all countries and industries.  He also supports getting rid of the reason for the shipping of jobs overseas – excessive regulation and taxation on industrial and manufacturing jobs, as well as other jobs.  That won’t bring them all back, but it would alleviate the problem.  As you say yourself, the problem is made worse by government intervention, and the only significant cutbacks to that intervention would come under a President Paul.

  90. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:28 am #

    How, exactly, does one push a “covert pro-establishment agenda”?  Especially given that Paul has been in Congress for 30 years making impassioned speeches against both the drug war and for various other anti-establishment, libertarian positions.  He is the most incorruptible man in the system, by far.

  91. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:29 am #

    “selling out the last vestiges of our Society to the highest bidder”

    How, pray tell, does following the Constitution do this?

  92. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    So people suffering under authoritarian states should be left to die?  Trading with individuals, even those suffering under totalitarian rule, is still free trade, just as it is still free trade to sell someone a necessity for survival that they cannot get anywhere else.  And if the authoritarian regime prevents free trade, that’s on them – not on the libertarian capitalists attempting to trade with, again, INDIVIDUALS in these states.

  93. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    So people suffering under authoritarian states should be left to die?  Trading with individuals, even those suffering under totalitarian rule, is still free trade, just as it is still free trade to sell someone a necessity for survival that they cannot get anywhere else.  And if the authoritarian regime prevents free trade, that’s on them – not on the libertarian capitalists attempting to trade with, again, INDIVIDUALS in these states.

  94. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    So stopping bailouts, ending the Federal Reserve, with its inflationary policy destroying savings and its assistance to failing banks, and getting rid of corporate welfare is all to help…. Big Business?  

    There are two kinds of businesses, corporate or not.  The first is a corporation that obtains power only through the voluntary actions of the consumer buying their product – a company like Apple or Standard Oil.  This power can be taken away by consumer action as well, by boycotts and similar action.  The other, and the problem now, is the corporation that suckles at the teat of the State, gorging on bailouts, subsidies, and tax breaks – a company like Robert Fulton’s steamship operation or General Motors and General Electric over the last few decades.  Libertarianism, as espoused by Dr. Paul, supports the former while cutting off the supply of funds and assistance to the later.

  95. Matthew Tanous December 21, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    So stopping bailouts, ending the Federal Reserve, with its inflationary policy destroying savings and its assistance to failing banks, and getting rid of corporate welfare is all to help…. Big Business?  

    There are two kinds of businesses, corporate or not.  The first is a corporation that obtains power only through the voluntary actions of the consumer buying their product – a company like Apple or Standard Oil.  This power can be taken away by consumer action as well, by boycotts and similar action.  The other, and the problem now, is the corporation that suckles at the teat of the State, gorging on bailouts, subsidies, and tax breaks – a company like Robert Fulton’s steamship operation or General Motors and General Electric over the last few decades.  Libertarianism, as espoused by Dr. Paul, supports the former while cutting off the supply of funds and assistance to the later.

Leave a Reply