Abolish Student Loan Debt?

Student DebtWriting for the journal Reclamations, George Caffentzis wonders why there is no movement in the United States to abolish our increasingly oppressive system of institutionalized student loan debt:

Debt has had a crushing impact on the lives of those who must take student loans to finance their university education in the US. For tuition fees that have been so notoriously high in private universities now are rising in public universities so quickly they are far out-pacing inflation. Average loan debt per student in the US has been much higher than in Europe (with the exception of Sweden), though recent developments there would indicate that this gap may soon no longer exist (Usher).

We should also take into account the fraudulent way in which the loans have been administered by the banks and the vindictiveness with which those who have been unable to pay back have been pursued by collection agents. The most frustrating aspect of student loan debt being the legally toothless position the debtor is in, because government policy has relentlessly vested all the bargaining power in the hands of the creditors …

[Full Article at Reclamations Journal]

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  • chinagreenelvis

    But there IS a movement to abolish student loan debt.

    http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=581466

    • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

      Does anyone know a situation where an online petition actually got anywhere? Really, i’m curious

  • chinagreenelvis

    But there IS a movement to abolish student loan debt.

    http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=581466

  • Zadik1

    Don’t want to bay it back? So don’t take it. If u going to school and choosing Art as yr major,dont expect immediate job offers to million dollar job. Wanna be sure on yr future ability to pay back yr loan – choose practical major. Don’t be a lazy idiots.

    • Redacted

      Don’t expect to be taken seriously if you think “u” is a word.

      • Andrew

        “a lazy idiots”

        • Misinformation

          Oops, you beat me to it. I just got so excited, I stopped reading too early.

    • Mr Willow

      Really?

      So either you are saddled with too much debt to possibly pay back, because of all the interest accrued by the loan before any of it may potentially be paid off, or you are without a college degree, which is becoming required for more and more positions?

      This problem is an institutionalised scam to put people in debt before they have much of an opportunity to get a job that qualifies as much of a profession, let alone one that pays a million dollars. It affects business majors, physics majors, history majors, philosophy majors, et al. The only ones not affected are the children of the already wealthy.

      It is just another symptom of the Commercial Crusade to turn every facet of our culture into another private, commercial enterprise with little other purpose than funneling money to those who already have most of it—in this instance bank CEOs.

      • Capitalist1950

        did u borrow? did you pay it back?

      • KrankTheTank

        I agree with most of what you say. Clearly it is an institutionalized scam. However, the answer is not to publicly fund college/university education. For one thing, the logic is inconsistent: It’s unacceptable for students to have to pay back debt, but it’s perfectly acceptable to force others to fund your education through taxation?

        The best option is to repeal the regulations preventing employment in a certain field without a diploma/degree. Allow people the choice of going to school, or self-educating, or educating in an entirely different fashion, and if they can prove they have the skills, allow them to enter their chosen field. This seems to make sense anyway, since if you do a poor job, you’ll be fired (or lose business, if you’re self-employed — same difference) regardless of your level of education. The regulations are what are REALLY preventing skilled people who lack funds from advancing. The fact that college/university can be cost-prohibitive for certain people is just a symptom of the problem.

        This whole idea that everyone is entitled to higher education (or education period) seems to stem from the fact that people have been so neutered by the government that they can’t imagine that they can be educated without specifically going to a school. Nobody believes in themselves anymore, or in the power of accomplishing something together. If the government doesn’t provide it, all is lost.

        • Mr Willow

          I am genuinely tired of spelling this out to people. 

          America is governed by the People as laid out by the Constitution—indirectly, sadly, through representation of elected officials. Taxation does nothing but pool individual resources, which fund public programs that seek to benefit society. ‘The government’ does not provide for anyöne. The People provide for one another. 

    • chinagreenelvis

      By your logic, the solution to the AIDS epidemic is “Don’t want AIDS? So don’t get it.”

      • SF2K01

        Believe it or not, there are people who voluntarily get themselves infected with AIDS too. Some people just aren’t educated on the very idea of taking out a loan or whether they should even go to college in the first place either.

    • Jin The Ninja

      Humanities and the Arts are legitimate forms of study. Just because you are not able to critically think or reason- does not mean the legacy of arts and humanities is not both historic or dynamic.

    • StillAtMyMoms

      Hey fucker, I was one of those “dumbasses” who decided to pursue my passion and foolishly study a worthless Liberal Arts field.  I then finally realized that my degree wasn’t practical at the advent of the ’08 collapse so I then chose to pursue a more practical field of study in order be come more economically-viable.  As it turns out, both of my fields are currently not hiring (surprise) and I am still stuck with a 30k bill WITH interest.  And get this, it’s been two degrees later and I still can only muster a part-time, seasonal job that doesn’t even cover necessities, let alone student loan payments.  After nearly 400 applications (and that’s a rough estimate; probably much higher), and missing work to attend countless interviews that lead to nowhere, I feel like a GED dropout as I am being a gypsy always moving around to keep a roof over my head.  (Which in fact, I know people who never went to college that are doing better off.)  So don’t even tell me that people like myself who were deceived into believing higher education would get you ahead in life are lazy idiots.  Obviously you didn’t make it past the 8th grade considering you can’t even spell “your” and substitute “you” for “u”. 

    • Adam

      I know others have already beat me to the punch with the indignant, profanity-laden response, but I’ll chime in anyway:

      I have been working two jobs for the better part of six years now, all while living on my own, paying my bills, and going to school for eighteen months to obtain my teaching credential.  I had to take a loan out to get my credential because I DON’T HAVE TWENTY FUCKING GRAND LAYING AROUND. I didn’t want to, but I was trying to better myself and improve my circumstances, because well, you can’t spend your whole life working menial jobs right? Isn’t the grand myth of America? I still have a good credit rating, am currently paying off my student loan, and will continue to do so.  However, it is killing me because the field I went to school for (education), currently has no jobs available and probably won’t for some time because the economy is in the toilet and everyone is broke.  I have good contacts, good skills, am well-liked, young, energetic, and I have decent experience (about five years as a long-term sub and one semester as a paid classroom teacher); the fact is, there are simply no jobs out there. So when some clown like you makes a bunch of idiotic assumptions about people like myself, it just shows your ignorance and I am reminded again of why groups like the Tea Party receive so much support in this country.

      So seriously, fuck you.

    • iPINCH

      sounds like you came from fox news site 

    • Godozo

      And accept third-class status for the rest of my life? Forget it.

      By the way, they now expect people to pay decent money to take a class to become a cab driver in the city of Chicago. Trucking now gets up to four thousand dollars (either that, or sell yourself into indentured servitude at the trucking company who teaches you how to drive). Anything that requires caring for people now requires months of training and classes, and costs beaucoup bucks. So even if you didn’t graduate high school (never mind college) you now need to jump hoops (and get debt if you must) to do anything more than minimum-wage at Wal-Mart or 7-11.

    • Misinformation

      “Don’t be a lazy idiots”

      Oh the irony.

    • Jamie Lee

      Yeah. That’s exactly how it works. 

      And people who work hard at “practical” things all get rewarded and “entitled” “impractical” people who want to do something crazy like raise the standard and level of discussion and thought in this country should be tossed on the street? 

      That’s the kind of nonsense my grandfather used to say. There’s little in this world that I hate more. Well. Get in line. It’s a long fucking line. 

  • Zadik1

    Don’t want to bay it back? So don’t take it. If u going to school and choosing Art as yr major,dont expect immediate job offers to million dollar job. Wanna be sure on yr future ability to pay back yr loan – choose practical major. Don’t be a lazy idiots.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t expect to be taken seriously if you think “u” is a word.

  • Mr Willow

    Really?

    So either they become slaves to debt, or they are without a college degree, which is becoming required for more and more positions? This problem is an institutionalised scam to put people in debt before they have much of an opportunity to get a job that qualifies as much of a profession, let alone one that pays a million dollars. It affects business majors, physics majors, history majors, philosophy majors, et al. 

    It is just another symptom of the Commercial Crusade to turn every facet of our culture into another private, commercial enterprise with little other purpose than funneling money to those who already have most of it—in this instance the CEOs of banks.

  • Unclesam309

    Steve Jobs didn’t have a college degree, just saying.

    • iPINCH

      but he did get a loaned liver.

    • Godozo

      Quite a few bazillionaires didn’t get a college degree. Gates is another person.

      Heck, my brother didn’t even graduate from High School, and he makes more in a bad year than I do in three good ones.

      BUT…you’d better know DAMN WELL what you want to do. Gates knew what he wanted to do, and was doing it since junior high school. Same with Jobs, and the same with many business owners and entrepreneurs. Quite the opposite for most of us, alas….

  • Unclesam309

    Steve Jobs didn’t have a college degree, just saying.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Does anyone know a situation where an online petition actually got anywhere? Really, i’m curious

  • emc_0

    Someone teach these kids what a loan is..

    Does it suck that they can’t get a job right now? Yes but that doesnt mean they should get bailed out by the taxpayers.

    No more bailouts, personal, small business, corporate, wall st, doesnt matter. There is no authorization for the govt to redistribute wealth to ANYONE. I think it would be fine to extend payments though and give them some extra time.

    • Jin The Ninja

      Please read the article in FULL. nowhere is it saying to “redistribute wealth.” it suggests ending the predatory practice of student loans which have (according to the author and i agree) forced hundreds of thousands of students into “peonage.” Your right wing talking points do nothing to make you sound cogent.

    • Mr Willow

      Education should not be a privilege for those with small fortunes and family connections, and it should not be an industry composed of test factories. 

      Education should be a guaranteed right for anyöne and everyöne who wishes to broaden their knowledge. 

    • De Carabas

      Article 1 Section 8 of the United States Constitution.

      “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the
      common Defense and general Welfare of the
      United States”
       
      Note specifically the parts where it says Collect taxes and Provide for the general Welfare. If they do not have authorization to redistribute wealth then why to they have the power to tax? How are they supposed to provide for the general welfare?

      Have you even read this document? It is not long, nor is it overly difficult to understand.

      • Corey

        “How are they supposed to provide for the general welfare?”

        There is a very specific list of things they’re supposed to do to promote the general welfare. They constitute the rest of Article I Section 8. The clause you cited is merely prefatory; it is not an independent grant of power.

        • De Carabas

          You are correct, sir. My point was to direct ecm_0 to the relevant section. My questions were rhetorical and intended to point out the silliness of the assertion that there is no authorization to redistribute wealth to anyone.

    • $4251815

      Shut up, Hannity, ya fuckwad.

  • Anonymous

    Someone teach these kids what a loan is..

    Does it suck that they can’t get a job right now? Yes but that doesnt mean they should get bailed out by the taxpayers.

    No more bailouts, personal, small business, corporate, wall st, doesnt matter. There is no authorization for the govt to redistribute wealth to ANYONE. I think it would be fine to extend payments though and give them some extra time.

  • Andrew

    “a lazy idiots”

  • chinagreenelvis
  • chinagreenelvis
  • chinagreenelvis

    By your logic, the solution to the AIDS epidemic is “Don’t want AIDS? So don’t get it.”

  • chinagreenelvis

    By your logic, the solution to the AIDS epidemic is “Don’t want AIDS? So don’t get it.”

  • chinagreenelvis

    By your logic, the solution to the AIDS epidemic is “Don’t want AIDS? So don’t get it.”

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    just confirming my view on them

  • Anonymous

    Please read the article in FULL. nowhere is it saying to “redistribute wealth.” it suggests ending the predatory practice of student loans which have (according to the author and i agree) forced hundreds of thousands of students into “peonage.” Your right wing talking points do nothing to make you sound cogent.

  • Anonymous

    Humanities and the Arts are legitimate forms of study. Just because you are not able to critically think or reason- does not mean the legacy of arts and humanities is not both historic or dynamic.

  • Anonymous

    Humanities and the Arts are legitimate forms of study. Just because you are not able to critically think or reason- does not mean the legacy of arts and humanities is not both historic or dynamic.

  • Anonymous

    Humanities and the Arts are legitimate forms of study. Just because you are not able to critically think or reason- does not mean the legacy of arts and humanities is not both historic or dynamic.

  • StillAtMyMoms

    Face it, virtually every single student is not attending college or another form of higher education to academically enrich their minds.  They are there purely to obtain a piece of fancy paper to land a better job (that and drink throughout the week plus sexually experiment)!  People, especially my parents and grandparent’s generation, appear to suffer from amnesia as they tend to forget that they kept pushing twentysomethings like myself to go to college in order to get ahead in life.  You were there so you could live a more lucrative life attending a job you looked forward to waking up to every morning.  If we wanted to enrich our minds with knowledge, we would have just spared the long nights cramming and signing the promissory notes and instead gone to the library or made a career out of googling.  Never did our parents imagine that an overwhelming majority of us college grads would still live in their basements as we are approaching our 30’s. 

    This is the very reason why every single student who wasted thousands of dollars for an decrepid professor lecturing with a Powerpoint presentation should join the Occupy Movement (because, truthfully, that’s what college was really about–some old person or GA talking about something on a Powerpoint).  WE GOT SHAFTED, BIG TIME.  Sorry, but not everyone wants to be a nurse and clean shit the rest of their lives.  (Because that’s literally the only thing that is hiring. *calls HR department of a hospital*  Oh wait, scratch that.  They’re on a hiring freeze too!  Fuck!)

  • StillAtMyMoms

    Face it, virtually every single student is not attending college or another form of higher education to academically enrich their minds.  They are there purely to obtain a piece of fancy paper to land a better job (that and drink throughout the week plus sexually experiment)!  People, especially my parents and grandparent’s generation, appear to suffer from amnesia as they tend to forget that they kept pushing twentysomethings like myself to go to college in order to get ahead in life.  You were there so you could live a more lucrative life attending a job you looked forward to waking up to every morning.  If we wanted to enrich our minds with knowledge, we would have just spared the long nights cramming and signing the promissory notes and instead gone to the library or made a career out of googling.  Never did our parents imagine that an overwhelming majority of us college grads would still live in their basements as we are approaching our 30’s. 

    This is the very reason why every single student who wasted thousands of dollars for an decrepid professor lecturing with a Powerpoint presentation should join the Occupy Movement (because, truthfully, that’s what college was really about–some old person or GA talking about something on a Powerpoint).  WE GOT SHAFTED, BIG TIME.  Sorry, but not everyone wants to be a nurse and clean shit the rest of their lives.  (Because that’s literally the only thing that is hiring. *calls HR department of a hospital*  Oh wait, scratch that.  They’re on a hiring freeze too!  Fuck!)

  • StillAtMyMoms

    Hey fucker, I was one of those “dumbasses” who decided to pursue my passion and foolishly study a worthless Liberal Arts field.  I then finally realized that my degree wasn’t practical at the advent of the ’08 collapse so I then chose to pursue a more practical field of study in order be come more economically-viable.  As it turns out, both of my fields are currently not hiring (surprise) and I am still stuck with a 30k bill WITH interest.  And get this, it’s been two degrees later and I still can only muster a part-time, seasonal job that doesn’t even cover necessities, let alone student loan payments.  After nearly 400 applications (and that’s a rough estimate; probably much higher), and missing work to attend countless interviews that lead to nowhere, I feel like a GED dropout as I am being a gypsy always moving around to keep a roof over my head.  (Which in fact, I know people who never went to college that are doing better off.)  So don’t even tell me that people like myself who were deceived into believing higher education would get you ahead in life are lazy idiots.  Obviously you didn’t make it past the 8th grade considering you can’t even spell “your” and substitute “you” for “u”. 

  • Mr Willow

    Education should not be a privilege for those with small fortunes and family connections, and it should not be an industry composed of test factories. 

    Education should be a guaranteed right for anyöne and everyöne who wishes to broaden their knowledge. 

  • Festernaecus

    If you went to college thinking it was going to guarantee you a job, you’re about 20 years behind the times. Sorry, but you were misinformed. That doesn’t mean education isn’t valuable or important in its own right, but it certainly doesn’t make you a commodity in the job market anymore. If you really want to be employable, learn a trade. Don’t cry because no one wanted to hand you 50k a year to dissect 17th-century French poetry as soon as you squirted out of the institution, still slick with afterbirth.

    • StillAtMyMoms

      So I guess daddy and mommy hooked you up with a job too? 

      You and your ilk forget to mention one important strategy in landing a job: It’s all about who you know.

      So in order to get a job nowadays, it’s about how much ass you kiss or cock you suck to get ahead in life.

      • Festernaecus

        You have somehow misread me entirely. 

        I am self-employed, because I learned a trade. Not a spectacularly lucrative one, but one that keeps me out of mom’s basement. I kissed no ass and sucked no cock. I busted my hump learning what I needed to know while working full-time at a 9-5 job you would no doubt think is beneath you. When I started working for myself, I made my reputation by being honest and hard-working, and I hadn’t saddled myself with debts I couldn’t possibly begin to repay.

        You sound pretty entitled, and you’re pretty quick with the finger-pointing, too.

        • Home schooled TROLL

          Wats the deal with people going to college or gaining skill just to get away from moms? like being hardworking and autonomous and being useful  is kool and all but please dont ruin it it by saying, “it keeps you out of moms basement” (apple  and other companies were started in parents garages and basement!!!!!). I wish i could live with my whole family still, so i could interact and have a sense of belonging to what sprung me to life. If you are just working to stay away from mom so you can have sex with whatever ugly lover you can find its not the the right motivation behind the work you do and if you did have the right motives then maybe it will be more lucrative. The truth is, do what you love, and if you die or fail  in the process ofgoing after it so be it, as least you tried and didnt die a coward using the pride of being away from mom while she is still alive drive you. Now if you have problems interacting with your relatives i understand, thats dysfunctional, but if you have a loving family and mom, dont talk about their basement like that because it was probably the last place you could stay that you were truly loved and thats fucking priceless.

          and college is too expensive and exclusive and has problems just like any other industry (mostly with just how much money they want for their mostly faulty intellectual products). It contributes to elitism and thats why people are slowly but surely losing faith in the current system in favor of something more sophisticated and in pace with the times.

          I’m self employed because I learned how to summon demons to do my bidding when i first heard about them >:)

          live life to the fullest even if you fail. Be an outsider, experiment with life styles even if it does not start a trend. innovation is what the world always needs.

          • MoralDrift

            there is nothing wrong with wanting to venture out of your parents home, it is quite natural all across the animal kingdom

          • home schooled troll

            just because its natural does not mean its good. Thats overly simplistic view of the world and might get you into trouble. natural is constantly evolving and correcting things that were good in time long past that are not good in the world now. We need family structures, emotional bonds and god only knows we need basements in case of tornadoes or lan parties or company start up space, dave mathews band started in a moms basement full of love. I owe everything to my mom and my family and i would not dare leave them with the thought that they are holding me back when in fact they are raising me to new heights. I’m not saying this just to be a contradictory pest. I’ve seen the rift it created in the families of some of my cousins and my friends and the financial problems its causing them by having to pay rent that is too high so they can smoke pot in the living room or not do their dishes and laundry. Maybe i just have the unique  ability of making myself care for the first people i was involved with in this world even if they dont meet my expectations all the time. And its fine with me too to move out, just dont be an asshole about it and put down people that prefer to be close to family and create prosperity in the first institution they were ever part of. Again abusive parents are the exception they abusive people are criminals so there is no family if there is abuse. But if you are just full of shit and want to look cool to your friends or girlfriend or whatever, shut the fuck up its causing problems. FEED ME!!!!

          • Nuggett

            What you may not understand is that so many young people in this country needed to get out of their dysfunctional homes before being too tainted themselves.  “Getting away from mom” is extremely important to some people.  In many ways, it saves peoples’ lives.  My wife’s mother doesn’t really give a shit about her.  You want to live with that?  I wouldn’t.  So, my wife went off to college, became the valedictorian of her class, went to a DI graduate school, graduated summa cum laude, and is now making off well.  We’ve got about 15k left of a low-interest sally mae loan she took out for Graduate school.  With our combined salaries we’ll probably have paid this off by next year.  We have no car debt, only a moderate mortgage by today’s standards.  We are financially better off than nearly all of our friends who weren’t given the silver spoon.  In 5 years out in the real world we have both increased our income (collectively) by 70%. 

            All this not to brag or show off, but, if we never had a real need to leave mom’s house, NONE of this would have ever happened.  

          • Home schooled Troll

             
            Not were i come from, we value family as it is the true source of happiness . And I said if its was a dysfunctional family i would understand as abuse is a crime.  Yeah its fine you are living the baby boomer dream, big deal, thats the type of shit thats destroying society as we know it, cookie cutter lives with cookie cutter dreams, seems like mom not caring drove her to over achieve, but it didnt happen because she left moms, she would have done well there and with or without you as she seems very talented and top of the class are usually socially inept that are too obsessed with the subject being studied that there is no choice but to be good at it like a idiot savant . Maybe you should volunteer and help others since you are so good at living.
            Now because of sticking by my family I have everything I want and have the opportunity to help them and to fight and correct  family members that are not acting correctly instead of just running away in ignorance and fear, those who know how to fight intellectually and debate well usually reach success. Those who stand their ground win and also having cool relatives to look up to is nice.  I only see this oh i need to run the fuck out of my parents house mania here in the USA, its some weird tradition to me, and nugget the real world is everywhere son,  at the parents home and at some easy mental cubical office job or at the corner store, news flash its all fucking real you can make a difference anywhere if you have the will power. Its one thing to create wealth via an institution or establishment that automatically turns out some over rated brick in the wall after the other and another thing is to create wealth  for scratch and bringing something new and exciting to the world  but thats over achieving i guess. I’ll just stand my ground  family is important just because your wife had academic talent does not mean others cant derive value from family support. Because of working with my family i have no car debt, already have a house, have plenty of income to sustain my life style while still being modest, and didnt need a college to tell me im smart and can pursue my passion for music with reckless abandon, not to mention the infinite emotional and you can say financial support because we take care of each other. So your point is not valid here, your wife might have left home but i bet she still has a mother figure in her life somewhere and since you guys are doing so well maybe you should make sure her mom is ok too even if she does not like you because after all she did bring her into this world (be the bigger person). Mothers are mothers don’t be a fucking sheep and disrespect yours because of some mob mentality that happens here probably because of the irrational need to go to college trend. And it seems like your wife kicks your ass at everything and read everything before posting. Your post is irrelevant because i said abusive parents are the exception but most are not and young adults are know it alls full of bullshit until they hit rock bottom and head back to the basement because they were not financially or emotionally ready. Don’t grow up too fast people or else death comes on knocking early.
             

          • Nuggett

            You are the one who is speaking from fear and ignorance.

            All you seem to relate to is your own experience.  So, you’ve never been to college?  Awesome.  You have no idea what college is like?  By your logic, only “socially inept” and “too obsessed” can do well in school and have financial success.

            Not everyone is the same.  Just because you see trends from your mother’s house window doesn’t mean there are not many exceptions to the rule.  It’s people like you who really don’t fucking understand what is going on in America.  There are good and bad people everywhere.  There are completely emotionally stable people who graduated top of their class and had bad mothers, believe it or not.  There are good people in corporations fighting bad people.  It is so much more complicated than you implicate. 

            You can judge, Troll, but because your tiny worldview that consists of “didnt need a college to tell me im smart” tells me alot about you.  College, like your passion for music, is simply another opportunity.  If it can benefit you in life, you should do it.  If not, that’s fine.  Unfortunately, your baseless opinions will only serve to limit your potential for understanding others and having better life experiences.

          • troll with a college degree!

            first of all “I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and sh!t out a better arguement.”

            You make no sense and of course everyone is freaken different its obvious “Mr. good at life with a smart wife”.The problem is most institutions like colleges do not encourage or allow unique self expression and want to make you even more automatic and machine like (for a price$$$$$). Of course college is an opportuinity but  if you ask the fish in the pond, sometimes that tasty morscle floating in the water has a hook in it. And  guy you picked the wrong article to come and try to defend college as a valid opportunity because if you drop your white picket fence mind set you can see that the people you are saying are all different are having the same problem getting a return on the investments they made toward their education. Its a college casino and the house always wins. You are right college is an opportunity an opportunity for them to make money on top of you. But in your defense almost every industry has this problem of narrow mindness and greed these days. Now you talk about my mothers window again and ill make it my business to troll every comment you make under nuggett. thanks for reading you can go browse something else on your ipad 2 that you were able to aquire due to all your academy and financial success.  

          • Nuggett

            You have proven that you don’t know what you’re talking about.  Good luck with that closed mind.

          • home schooled TROLL

            And you have proven that you are not very creative. And I wish you bad luck with that golden wife.

          • home schooled TROLL

            its funny who you are saying you got a nice loan when everyone posting is complaining about their horrors of their unrealistic financial obligations, you got no sympathy and are trying to create comfusion and irronicly true disinformation ( I love a good word battle in the morning). And you talk about the real world. Trust me buddy the fall from that pedestal is very very hard. And you should make a fund for unexpected disaster, which is what get most high horse people like yourself by surprice. For some reason the tarot card called the The Tower comes to mind when focusing on you…. 

          • im pretty sure it was jesus

            yes yes not everything is good not everything is bad argument boring. we know. We are talking about the bad here like any good news site. And you to me = BAD

          • home schooled TROLL

            No my argument is that the top of the class is usually super nerdy to the point of extreme introversion. There is more to life then financial success buddy and being an intellectual does not guarantee financial success and each class is different then the other. For all i know she was trying to be a giant in a land of midgets which is easy. And financial success if having millions to billions the middle class can not afford to have such shallow status competitions.  

          • home schooled TROLL

            I want to have better understanding and experiences with your wife. Can she cook? And is she free on tuesday nights? I think I need to be on top of her class.

      • iPINCH

        cronies!! very true 

    • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

      “Don’t cry because no one wanted to hand you 50k a year to dissect 17th-century French poetry as soon as you squirted out of the institution, still slick with afterbirth.”

      Sorry dude…you fail the ‘observed on Earth test’. I may be making my way on a skilled trade instead of degree..but I know people with practical skills, trade certificates, useful degrees and more…and they happen to be out of work too. They didn’t study underwater basketweaving…they studied mechanical engineering, they didn’t study French poets of the 1700s…they studied architecture, and business management, and other serious fields of study that traditionally landed a person a solid career. Didn’t do a damn bit of good. The economy tanked and job rolls were slashed everywhere…creating a market with such a glut of labor that everyones value dropped. Now the guy with ten years experience in the field is losing out to the guy with twenty years…who is also looking for new work…and the college grad is the least valuable player on the field.

      So drop the Fox talking point “the jobless are to blame for their lack of a job” crap. Its cute spin…but as far as real life goes…it doesn’t cut muster…its just gum flapping glittering generalities that allow two bit no-brains to disregard a real issue.

  • Festernaecus

    If you went to college thinking it was going to guarantee you a job, you’re about 20 years behind the times. Sorry, but you were misinformed. That doesn’t mean education isn’t valuable or important in its own right, but it certainly doesn’t make you a commodity in the job market anymore. If you really want to be employable, learn a trade. Don’t cry because no one wanted to hand you 50k a year to dissect 17th-century French poetry as soon as you squirted out of the institution, still slick with afterbirth.

  • StillAtMyMoms

    So I guess daddy and mommy hooked you up with a job too? 

    You and your ilk forget to mention one important strategy in landing a job: It’s all about who you know.

    So in order to get a job nowadays, it’s about how much ass you kiss or cock you suck to get ahead in life.

  • Festernaecus

    You have somehow misread me entirely. 

    I am self-employed, because I learned a trade. Not a spectacularly lucrative one, but one that keeps me out of mom’s basement. I kissed no ass and sucked no cock. I busted my hump learning what I needed to know while working full-time at a 9-5 job you would no doubt think is beneath you. When I started working for myself, I made my reputation by being honest and hard-working, and I hadn’t saddled myself with debts I couldn’t possibly begin to repay.

    You sound pretty entitled, and you’re pretty quick with the finger-pointing, too.

  • iPINCH

    the problem with most college students is that they think they are better then everyone because of attention college. And no it can clearly be seen that that is not simply the case. If your ambition requires college as a stepping stone, the fine attend college. Now if you are just going because you and your parents think it will guarantee you money in the FUTURE and not out of passion and devotion for the subject, then you will surely lose money. College is a most of the time a nursing home for kids or a filter to take out those who are meant to be trying hard at a different field. It will not make a you a super rich genius 

  • iPINCH

    the problem with most college students is that they think they are better then everyone because of attention college. And no it can clearly be seen that that is not simply the case. If your ambition requires college as a stepping stone, the fine attend college. Now if you are just going because you and your parents think it will guarantee you money in the FUTURE and not out of passion and devotion for the subject, then you will surely lose money. College is a most of the time a nursing home for kids or a filter to take out those who are meant to be trying hard at a different field. It will not make a you a super rich genius 

  • De Carabas

    Article 1 Section 8 of the United States Constitution.

    “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the
    common Defense and general Welfare of the
    United States”
     
    Note specifically the parts where it says Collect taxes and Provide for the general Welfare. If they do not have authorization to redistribute wealth then why to they have the power to tax? How are they supposed to provide for the general welfare?

    Have you even read this document? It is not long, nor is it overly difficult to understand.

  • Anonymous

    Believe it or not, there are people who voluntarily get themselves infected with AIDS too. Some people just aren’t educated on the very idea of taking out a loan or whether they should even go to college in the first place either.

  • Anonymous

    I owe 6 grand and these vultures w/ their army of Bangladeshi customer service reps are on my ass like white on rice.

  • $4251815

    I owe 6 grand and these vultures w/ their army of Bangladeshi customer service reps are on my ass like white on rice.

    • Haystack

      I owe more like 60 grand, and I’ve just given up the idea of ever having extra income to use for anything other than student loan payments. 

      • MoralDrift

        isnt debt slavery awesome?

      • Dueyv9

        i think i have 40 grand or so in debt…I said “fuck it” like 10 yrs ago. I don’t think they can do anything. They are still calling me trying to get me to pay.

  • Anonymous

    Shut up, Hannity, ya fuckwad.

  • Haystack

    I owe more like 60 grand, and I’ve just given up the idea of ever having extra income to use for anything other than student loan payments. 

  • iPINCH

    cronies!! very true 

  • Adam

    I know others have already beat me to the punch with the indignant, profanity-laden response, but I’ll chime in anyway:

    I have been working two jobs for the better part of six years now, all while living on my own, paying my bills, and going to school for eighteen months to obtain my teaching credential.  I had to take a loan out to get my credential because I DON’T HAVE TWENTY FUCKING GRAND LAYING AROUND. I didn’t want to, but I was trying to better myself and improve my circumstances, because well, you can’t spend your whole life working menial jobs right? Isn’t the grand myth of America? I still have a good credit rating, am currently paying off my student loan, and will continue to do so.  However, it is killing me because the field I went to school for (education), currently has no jobs available and probably won’t for some time because the economy is in the toilet and everyone is broke.  I have good contacts, good skills, am well-liked, young, energetic, and I have decent experience (about five years as a long-term sub and one semester as a paid classroom teacher); the fact is, there are simply no jobs out there. So when some clown like you makes a bunch of idiotic assumptions about people like myself, it just shows your ignorance and I am reminded again of why groups like the Tea Party receive so much support in this country.

    So seriously, fuck you.

  • Home schooled TROLL

    Wats the deal with people going to college or gaining skill just to get away from moms? like being hardworking and autonomous and being useful  is kool and all but please dont ruin it it by saying, “it keeps you out of moms basement” (apple  and other companies were started in parents garages and basement!!!!!). I wish i could live with my whole family still, so i could interact and have a sense of belonging to what sprung me to life. If you are just working to stay away from mom so you can have sex with whatever ugly lover you can find its not the the right motivation behind the work you do and if you did have the right motives then maybe it will be more lucrative. The truth is, do what you love, and if you die or fail  in the process ofgoing after it so be it, as least you tried and didnt die a coward using the pride of being away from mom while she is still alive drive you. Now if you have problems interacting with your relatives i understand, thats dysfunctional, but if you have a loving family and mom, dont talk about their basement like that because it was probably the last place you could stay that you were truly loved and thats fucking priceless.

    and college is too expensive and exclusive and has problems just like any other industry (mostly with just how much money they want for their mostly faulty intellectual products). It contributes to elitism and thats why people are slowly but surely losing faith in the current system in favor of something more sophisticated and in pace with the times.

    I’m self employed because I learned how to summon demons to do my bidding when i first heard about them >:)

    live life to the fullest even if you fail. Be an outsider, experiment with life styles even if it does not start a trend. innovation is what the world always needs.

  • iPINCH

    sounds like you came from fox news site 

  • iPINCH

    sounds like you came from fox news site 

  • Godozo

    And accept third-class status for the rest of my life? Forget it.

    By the way, they now expect people to pay decent money to take a class to become a cab driver in the city of Chicago. Trucking now gets up to four thousand dollars (either that, or sell yourself into indentured servitude at the trucking company who teaches you how to drive). Anything that requires caring for people now requires months of training and classes, and costs beaucoup bucks. So even if you didn’t graduate high school (never mind college) you now need to jump hoops (and get debt if you must) to do anything more than minimum-wage at Wal-Mart or 7-11.

  • iPINCH

    but he did get a loaned liver.

  • Godozo

    Quite a few bazillionaires didn’t get a college degree. Gates is another person.

    Heck, my brother didn’t even graduate from High School, and he makes more in a bad year than I do in three good ones.

    BUT…you’d better know DAMN WELL what you want to do. Gates knew what he wanted to do, and was doing it since junior high school. Same with Jobs, and the same with many business owners and entrepreneurs. Quite the opposite for most of us, alas….

  • HonestAbe

    The empowering of the creditors is logical given the highly guaranteed nature of the loans regardless of the likelihood of the student being able to pay them back. I propose an alternative scenario – let the studnet seek a loan in a free market, let creditors review the student’s academic record and proposed course of study. If the student’s record, potential, and (possible) future economic earnings warrant the investment, then it shall be made. 

    If you want people to take an unwarranted financially insane risk on you, then you should be held to strict payback standards. Otherwise, you are intentionally playing them for a fool. Them in this case being ultimately the taxpayer or depositors in a lending bank.

    • MoralDrift

      why dont we just fund higher education period. for fucks sake the money comes out of thin air

      We all work, and teach, and sit in class, and collect welfare from a magical bucket of fiat currency that we could use to do anything in the world with, but instead of using it for good we use it for evil and believe me the USA will reap what it sowed

    • Jin The Ninja

      Your solution sounds like a case study for the Rand institute of higher learning.

    • Jin The Ninja

      Also known as “Fascism Inc.EDU”

  • HonestAbe

    The empowering of the creditors is logical given the highly guaranteed nature of the loans regardless of the likelihood of the student being able to pay them back. I propose an alternative scenario – let the studnet seek a loan in a free market, let creditors review the student’s academic record and proposed course of study. If the student’s record, potential, and (possible) future economic earnings warrant the investment, then it shall be made. 

    If you want people to take an unwarranted financially insane risk on you, then you should be held to strict payback standards. Otherwise, you are intentionally playing them for a fool. Them in this case being ultimately the taxpayer or depositors in a lending bank.

  • Anonymous

    why dont we just fund higher education period. for fucks sake the money comes out of thin air

    We all work, and teach, and sit in class, and collect welfare from a magical bucket of fiat currency that we could use to do anything in the world with, but instead of using it for good we use it for evil and believe me the USA will reap what it sowed

  • Anonymous

    isnt debt slavery awesome?

  • Anonymous

    there is nothing wrong with wanting to venture out of your parents home, it is quite natural all across the animal kingdom

  • Nuggett

    What you may not understand is that so many young people in this country needed to get out of their dysfunctional homes before being too tainted themselves.  “Getting away from mom” is extremely important to some people.  In many ways, it saves peoples’ lives.  My wife’s mother doesn’t really give a shit about her.  You want to live with that?  I wouldn’t.  So, my wife went off to college, became the valedictorian of her class, went to a DI graduate school, graduated summa cum laude, and is now making off well.  We’ve got about 15k left of a low-interest sally mae loan she took out for Graduate school.  With our combined salaries we’ll probably have paid this off by next year.  We have no car debt, only a moderate mortgage by today’s standards.  We are financially better off than nearly all of our friends who weren’t given the silver spoon.  In 5 years out in the real world we have both increased our income (collectively) by 70%. 

    All this not to brag or show off, but, if we never had a real need to leave mom’s house, NONE of this would have ever happened.  

  • Anonymous

    Your solution sounds like a case study for the Rand institute of higher learning.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I can’t say I’m in favor of abolishing debt entirely…since this bypasses any assumption of responsibility for the debtor. I’m not sure erasing the slate is a good call, financially or philosophically. The right to assume debt should exist…

    …but the terms under which debt is assumed and assessed should be re-engineered completely . We’ve made a hash of it here in the US…allowing terms to morph into nearly permanent slavery. Interest rates need to be culled sharply to return to an era of manageable debt, and collection practices need an upending as well. We’ve delivered to banks and lenders the right to assess wildly inflated charges for their services…and even alter the terms of the debt at their pleasure. None of this is constructive or healthy, and slashing away these privileges would go a lot further to reduce debt issues than one might imagine. Just stripping away the debt created by usurious interest rates and forcing payment plans to reflect a persons fiscal reality would help millions return to stability…

    …but we can’t even get that much out of our existing leadership…whose mouths are firmly wrapped around bankster-dicks and aren’t due to budge anytime soon.

    So maybe pushing the threat of complete debt elimination would be a good opener…and if we can ever force it to the table we can negotiate our way to at least something sane and hope they accept it as an alternative to gutting their profits entirely.

    • Jin The Ninja

      Although i disagree with your premise, “the right to assume debt should exist…” I DO agree with you on your other points.(i.e. financial services out of control, banksters in power, attempt to negotiate…)

      I think i can sway you with a more factually inclined arguement on the complete abolition of student debt  in particular.

      -Student debt is a basically a requirement of higher education in the US/Canada if you do not have
      wealthy parents.  Contradictory to the aims of contemporary pedagogy and arguably democracy which
      require egalitarian democratic educational institutions, and informed citizen public.
      Without going into a deep class analysis this would infer that inequality is institutionalised at the teritiary level (whether public or private and thus running against at least the aims of ‘public education’)

      -Student Debt is psychologically crippling (well all debt can be crippling) but student debt which CANNOT be discharged through bankruptcy (both here and in the US)- and charges interest rates that in other financial services (as you stated above) would be considered usurious (28%+) is considered to be particularly debilitating by psychologists and educators.

      -The most generous models of ‘capitalism” i.e. The Scandinavian Models have entirely done away with  teritiary fees (finland, sweden and norway  and i BELIEVE/but don’t quote me denmark). finland in particular used a loan -model not dissimiliar to the US/canada but found it inherently divisive.

      -Australia had no teritiary fees until 1988- and now has a huge avg student debt burden.

      -Student debt lessens the likely hood of purchasing a home and increasing home prices will eventually price 1st time buyers out of the market entirely.

      -Many  Boomers and Gen X’ers paid nearly 90% less for their tuition than students do currently (using  cdn numbers i have read somewhere the US number is cloaser to 70% less, and the UK 95%), yet they are ones pushing for higher fees….?

      -Fees/Debt has pushed students out of Arts/Humanities AND skilled trades and into technocratic occupations like engineering and hard sciences. Lack of social science, arts, literature, language, religion (comparitive or specific studies like divinity or buddhist), media arts, promotes the very post modern trend of pop culture over cultural knowledge. Pop’ns inclined toward hard sciences/commerce (like Singapore or China) demonstrate willingness to live under oppressive regimes and have higher suicide rates.

      I guess my point is- that IF capitalism is a given, it IS still possible to have democratic egalitarian educational institutions within that model. I think if this our reality, there will still be dozens of places to make “profit” whether in financial services or loans of other sorts.

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        I should probably have expanded further…for the most part…I speak of the concept of debt as a whole…not merely with regard to education. The concept of ‘credit’…the ability to entrust a service or investment to another with the expectation of repayment…is central to both ancient and modern economics…so it would be unrealistic to abandon the concept. It would be realistic to rebuild strict controls that prevent debt slavery and gross abuse of interest…so we agree…

        …for student debt and colleges…the ideal situation is one where A) a portion of the cost is guaranteed by the state for any who meet the entry qualifications, B) grants for performance cover further costs for high achieving students, C) debt terms for remaining costs are forced to reasonable rates for repayment so that they don’t cripple the consumer power of the newly graduated and D) the costs of an education as a whole are held to a level equal to their value…unlike the present, where a person can be indebted for half a lifetime to pay for a degree with comparatively little value in real time wages. This would be a more egalitarian setup…leaving room for lenders and the expectation of repayment…but not in such a predatory sense.

        When I speak of debts not being erased…I mean in the current paradigm that existing debts should not be wholly forgiven (since they were entered into willingly enough albeit under pressure)…but rather partly forgiven…perhaps slashed back to the original amount sans interest, but not purged completely. I went through a bankruptcy some ten years ago…and in my defense…everyone who worked with me regarding repayment for excess debts was excluded from the bankruptcy filing and repaid in full. The companies who refused smaller payments or terms other than instant gratification…took the hit in court and received nothing. It particularly helped that I’d tendered offers for slower repayment…and was rebuffed. I respect the concept of owing what you borrowed…but it has to be balanced against fair and unwavering terms from the lender…not rapidly shifting and unreasonable demands. 

        • Jin The Ninja

          Thanks vox! another well-reasoned response! you’re quite the blog-poet lately;)

          Your personal experience does make a lot of sense regarding debt repayment. I don’t disagree at all with the concept of credit or repayment of pre-existing debts, but i do have an issue with student loans- and maintain that tuition should be wholly subsidised or at the very least dramatically reduced, and those students with current loan balances (public or prvt) should have that balance forgiven. I understand it’s a radical proposition, but given that tuition for some of our contemporary greatest thinkers was a mere 50$ for class fees (disregarding inflation of course) and many of our current technocrats (looking at you Dave Cameron), paid next to nothing, i have a real issue, with the expansion of fees and continued burden of this specific debt.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I can’t say I’m in favor of abolishing debt entirely…since this bypasses any assumption of responsibility for the debtor. I’m not sure erasing the slate is a good call, financially or philosophically. The right to assume debt should exist…

    …but the terms under which debt is assumed and assessed should be re-engineered completely . We’ve made a hash of it here in the US…allowing terms to morph into nearly permanent slavery. Interest rates need to be culled sharply to return to an era of manageable debt, and collection practices need an upending as well. We’ve delivered to banks and lenders the right to assess wildly inflated charges for their services…and even alter the terms of the debt at their pleasure. None of this is constructive or healthy, and slashing away these privileges would go a lot further to reduce debt issues than one might imagine. Just stripping away the debt created by usurious interest rates and forcing payment plans to reflect a persons fiscal reality would help millions return to stability…

    …but we can’t even get that much out of our existing leadership…whose mouths are firmly wrapped around bankster-dicks and aren’t due to budge anytime soon.

    So maybe pushing the threat of complete debt elimination would be a good opener…and if we can ever force it to the table we can negotiate our way to at least something sane and hope they accept it as an alternative to gutting their profits entirely.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    “Don’t cry because no one wanted to hand you 50k a year to dissect 17th-century French poetry as soon as you squirted out of the institution, still slick with afterbirth.”

    Sorry dude…you fail the ‘observed on Earth test’. I may be making my way on a skilled trade instead of degree..but I know people with practical skills, trade certificates, useful degrees and more…and they happen to be out of work too. They didn’t study underwater basketweaving…they studied mechanical engineering, they didn’t study French poets of the 1700s…they studied architecture, and business management, and other serious fields of study that traditionally landed a person a solid career. Didn’t do a damn bit of good. The economy tanked and job rolls were slashed everywhere…creating a market with such a glut of labor that everyones value dropped. Now the guy with ten years experience in the field is losing out to the guy with twenty years…who is also looking for new work…and the college grad is the least valuable player on the field.

    So drop the Fox talking point “the jobless are to blame for their lack of a job” crap. Its cute spin…but as far as real life goes…it doesn’t cut muster…its just gum flapping glittering generalities that allow two bit no-brains to disregard a real issue.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    “Don’t cry because no one wanted to hand you 50k a year to dissect 17th-century French poetry as soon as you squirted out of the institution, still slick with afterbirth.”

    Sorry dude…you fail the ‘observed on Earth test’. I may be making my way on a skilled trade instead of degree..but I know people with practical skills, trade certificates, useful degrees and more…and they happen to be out of work too. They didn’t study underwater basketweaving…they studied mechanical engineering, they didn’t study French poets of the 1700s…they studied architecture, and business management, and other serious fields of study that traditionally landed a person a solid career. Didn’t do a damn bit of good. The economy tanked and job rolls were slashed everywhere…creating a market with such a glut of labor that everyones value dropped. Now the guy with ten years experience in the field is losing out to the guy with twenty years…who is also looking for new work…and the college grad is the least valuable player on the field.

    So drop the Fox talking point “the jobless are to blame for their lack of a job” crap. Its cute spin…but as far as real life goes…it doesn’t cut muster…its just gum flapping glittering generalities that allow two bit no-brains to disregard a real issue.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    “Don’t cry because no one wanted to hand you 50k a year to dissect 17th-century French poetry as soon as you squirted out of the institution, still slick with afterbirth.”

    Sorry dude…you fail the ‘observed on Earth test’. I may be making my way on a skilled trade instead of degree..but I know people with practical skills, trade certificates, useful degrees and more…and they happen to be out of work too. They didn’t study underwater basketweaving…they studied mechanical engineering, they didn’t study French poets of the 1700s…they studied architecture, and business management, and other serious fields of study that traditionally landed a person a solid career. Didn’t do a damn bit of good. The economy tanked and job rolls were slashed everywhere…creating a market with such a glut of labor that everyones value dropped. Now the guy with ten years experience in the field is losing out to the guy with twenty years…who is also looking for new work…and the college grad is the least valuable player on the field.

    So drop the Fox talking point “the jobless are to blame for their lack of a job” crap. Its cute spin…but as far as real life goes…it doesn’t cut muster…its just gum flapping glittering generalities that allow two bit no-brains to disregard a real issue.

  • Vi0let_femme

    it’s a game. i stopped playing.  just waitin for the end and enjoying life as best i can

  • Vi0let_femme

    it’s a game. i stopped playing.  just waitin for the end and enjoying life as best i can

  • Home schooled Troll

     
    Not were i come from, we value family as it is the true source of happiness . And I said if its was a dysfunctional family i would understand as abuse is a crime.  Yeah its fine you are living the baby boomer dream, big deal, thats the type of shit thats destroying society as we know it, cookie cutter lives with cookie cutter dreams, seems like mom not caring drove her to over achieve, but it didnt happen because she left moms, she would have done well there and with or without you as she seems very talented and top of the class are usually socially inept that are too obsessed with the subject being studied that there is no choice but to be good at it like a idiot savant . Maybe you should volunteer and help others since you are so good at living.
    Now because of sticking by my family I have everything I want and have the opportunity to help them and to fight and correct  family members that are not acting correctly instead of just running away in ignorance and fear, those who know how to fight intellectually and debate well usually reach success. Those who stand their ground win and also having cool relatives to look up to is nice.  I only see this oh i need to run the fuck out of my parents house mania here in the USA, its some weird tradition to me, and nugget the real world is everywhere son,  at the parents home and at some easy mental cubical office job or at the corner store, news flash its all fucking real you can make a difference anywhere if you have the will power. Its one thing to create wealth via an institution or establishment that automatically turns out some over rated brick in the wall after the other and another thing is to create wealth  for scratch and bringing something new and exciting to the world  but thats over achieving i guess. I’ll just stand my ground  family is important just because your wife had academic talent does not mean others cant derive value from family support. Because of working with my family i have no car debt, already have a house, have plenty of income to sustain my life style while still being modest, and didnt need a college to tell me im smart and can pursue my passion for music with reckless abandon, not to mention the infinite emotional and you can say financial support because we take care of each other. So your point is not valid here, your wife might have left home but i bet she still has a mother figure in her life somewhere and since you guys are doing so well maybe you should make sure her mom is ok too even if she does not like you because after all she did bring her into this world (be the bigger person). Mothers are mothers don’t be a fucking sheep and disrespect yours because of some mob mentality that happens here probably because of the irrational need to go to college trend. And it seems like your wife kicks your ass at everything and read everything before posting. Your post is irrelevant because i said abusive parents are the exception but most are not and young adults are know it alls full of bullshit until they hit rock bottom and head back to the basement because they were not financially or emotionally ready. Don’t grow up too fast people or else death comes on knocking early.
     

  • home schooled troll

    just because its natural does not mean its good. Thats overly simplistic view of the world and might get you into trouble. natural is constantly evolving and correcting things that were good in time long past that are not good in the world now. We need family structures, emotional bonds and god only knows we need basements in case of tornadoes or lan parties or company start up space, dave mathews band started in a moms basement full of love. I owe everything to my mom and my family and i would not dare leave them with the thought that they are holding me back when in fact they are raising me to new heights. I’m not saying this just to be a contradictory pest. I’ve seen the rift it created in the families of some of my cousins and my friends and the financial problems its causing them by having to pay rent that is too high so they can smoke pot in the living room or not do their dishes and laundry. Maybe i just have the unique  ability of making myself care for the first people i was involved with in this world even if they dont meet my expectations all the time. And its fine with me too to move out, just dont be an asshole about it and put down people that prefer to be close to family and create prosperity in the first institution they were ever part of. Again abusive parents are the exception they abusive people are criminals so there is no family if there is abuse. But if you are just full of shit and want to look cool to your friends or girlfriend or whatever, shut the fuck up its causing problems. FEED ME!!!!

  • Anonymous

    Also known as “Fascism Inc.EDU”

  • Misinformation

    “Don’t be a lazy idiots”

    Oh the irony.

  • Misinformation

    Oops, you beat me to it. I just got so excited, I stopped reading too early.

  • Nuggett

    You are the one who is speaking from fear and ignorance.

    All you seem to relate to is your own experience.  So, you’ve never been to college?  Awesome.  You have no idea what college is like?  By your logic, only “socially inept” and “too obsessed” can do well in school and have financial success.

    Not everyone is the same.  Just because you see trends from your mother’s house window doesn’t mean there are not many exceptions to the rule.  It’s people like you who really don’t fucking understand what is going on in America.  There are good and bad people everywhere.  There are completely emotionally stable people who graduated top of their class and had bad mothers, believe it or not.  There are good people in corporations fighting bad people.  It is so much more complicated than you implicate. 

    You can judge, Troll, but because your tiny worldview that consists of “didnt need a college to tell me im smart” tells me alot about you.  College, like your passion for music, is simply another opportunity.  If it can benefit you in life, you should do it.  If not, that’s fine.  Unfortunately, your baseless opinions will only serve to limit your potential for understanding others and having better life experiences.

  • emperorreagan

    I think student loans should be capped at 7-10 years to pay back…and the maximum tuition a school should be able to charge should be based on the median salary of its graduating classes, based on a set, sustainable percentage of monthly income being allotted to student loan payments and assuming 100% funding through student loans.

    I think both the student loan industry and colleges are out of control.  Administrators outnumber professors at some institution, drawing much higher salaries under the argument that they need to compete with the private sector for “talent.”  Of course the student loan industry is full of abuses too, subsidized and protected by the government.  And the two play on each other – swelling administrations are funded by swelling student loans…

    I also think capping things would push many current programs that would be better handled as 2-year degrees, on the job training, or apprenticeships back where they belong.  There is no reason you should need a college degree to be a manager at Target, for example.

  • Dueyv9

    i think i have 40 grand or so in debt…I said “fuck it” like 10 yrs ago. I don’t think they can do anything. They are still calling me trying to get me to pay.

  • emperorreagan

    I think student loans should be capped at 7-10 years to pay back…and the maximum tuition a school should be able to charge should be based on the median salary of its graduating classes, based on a set, sustainable percentage of monthly income being allotted to student loan payments and assuming 100% funding through student loans.

    I think both the student loan industry and colleges are out of control.  Administrators outnumber professors at some institutions, drawing much higher salaries under the argument that they need to compete with the private sector for “talent.”  Of course the student loan industry is full of abuses too, subsidized and protected by the government.  And the two play on each other – swelling administrations are funded by swelling student loans…

    I also think capping things would push many current programs that would be better handled as 2-year degrees, on the job training, or apprenticeships back where they belong.  There is no reason you should need a college degree to be a manager at Target, for example.

    • pendulum

      I like apprenticeships. Now there you gain some real skills if you have a skilled mentor.

  • emperorreagan

    I think student loans should be capped at 7-10 years to pay back…and the maximum tuition a school should be able to charge should be based on the median salary of its graduating classes, based on a set, sustainable percentage of monthly income being allotted to student loan payments and assuming 100% funding through student loans.

    I think both the student loan industry and colleges are out of control.  Administrators outnumber professors at some institutions, drawing much higher salaries under the argument that they need to compete with the private sector for “talent.”  Of course the student loan industry is full of abuses too, subsidized and protected by the government.  And the two play on each other – swelling administrations are funded by swelling student loans…

    I also think capping things would push many current programs that would be better handled as 2-year degrees, on the job training, or apprenticeships back where they belong.  There is no reason you should need a college degree to be a manager at Target, for example.

  • senorchupacabra

    I agree that something needs to be done about the student loan process. I agree with VoxMagi that all debts probably shouldn’t be forgiven, because the right to take on debt is just that–a right. I also agree that those banks handling the loans are crooked as 36 S’s.

    However, sometimes I wonder what the hell everyone is doing and hoping for. I’m about to complete my M.A. and when all is said and done I’ll be about $22,000 in student loan debt. I live in a very small town and yet I have several jobs lined up and the least of which pays $36,000/yr. After 2-3 years, I’ll be making around $50,000. This isn’t a whole lot of money, for sure, but it’s enough. Hell, it’s more than enough. I don’t know who lied to you people and told you you would make six figures fresh out of school. I went to a small, shitty, cheap college, because it was accredited and the stupid piece of paper means the same thing as it does if I would’ve paid more to go to some more “prestigious” setting. Sure there isn’t the prestige that comes along with going to a private school or major university, but if that’s what you’re looking for you’re a fucking moron and I don’t want to hear you crying about your $60,000 debt. And if you majored in underwater basket weaving because that’s your passion, sorry, but I don’t want to hear you complain either. You knew what you were getting yourself into, and it should’ve been obvious that the market for underwater basket weavers is far from lucrative and non-existent.

    The post-secondary educational system is a racket, period. I’m slightly bitter about my $22,000 debt, but then I look at people with five times that and that’s just for their B.A., B.S and I suddenly don’t feel so terrible. The smart thing is to go somewhere cheap like I did. The smarter thing is to go to a community or junior college and get a certificate in massage or nursing or welding or fire fighting or policing or to be a personal trainer. Hell, a nurse and/or firefighter make nearly $60,000/yr in a nearby city and they probably have close to nil in student loans. In my shitty town alone, there are AT LEAST a dozen places to get a massage and every last one charges $50/hr. All those people are getting paid and they don’t have student loans to pay back.

    • Kristin

      When I was in college, I was the editor of a small magazine making $23 an hour. I also did freelance editing work making $20 per hour. I took out student loans because my money from work was going to support my mom who had to go on disability from work. I didn’t worry about it because I had good jobs in publishing that I figured would be there for me when I graduated. I did, and I got a job editing for Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. This was in 09 after the crash, and they were only paying $18, but we were assured of raises soon. A year and a half later, not only did we never have a raise, but they laid off our entire team because they decided editing wasn’t important enough. I couldn’t qualify for unemployment because we were contract workers and the company didn’t pay into unemployment insurance for us. So now I have debt, a family that can’t help, and work two minimum wage jobs and am unable to find anything in publishing because it isn’t doing too well. Not very many of us saw this coming. I didn’t spend 10 years interning and working in a field since I was 16 years old so that I could be 26 and working at a farmer’s market. I did everything I was “supposed” to and had no idea what I was getting myself into.

      • senorchupacabra

        I’m sorry to hear your story. That truly sucks for you, and you are truly the victim in a lot of ways.

        Most people in debt, though, don’t share your story or anything near  it. Most of the people I know with hardcore debt simply accrued it because they liked the “prestige’ of going to a big school, even thought that meant taking on loads of debt. Then most of them got worthless or near-worthless degrees (Liberal Arts, HPPE, Forestry, Drama) and have no reasonable way to pay any of it back.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ELVARQAQTCKOSF4KL736MX4NN4 Joseph

    I agree that something needs to be done about the student loan process. I agree with VoxMagi that all debts probably shouldn’t be forgiven, because the right to take on debt is just that–a right. I also agree that those banks handling the loans are crooked as 36 S’s.

    However, sometimes I wonder what the hell everyone is doing and hoping for. I’m about to complete my M.A. and when all is said and done I’ll be about $22,000 in student loan debt. I live in a very small town and yet I have several jobs lined up and the least of which pays $36,000/yr. After 2-3 years, I’ll be making around $50,000. This isn’t a whole lot of money, for sure, but it’s enough. Hell, it’s more than enough. I don’t know who lied to you people and told you you would make six figures fresh out of school. I went to a small, shitty, cheap college, because it was accredited and the stupid piece of paper means the same thing as it does if I would’ve paid more to go to some more “prestigious” setting. Sure there isn’t the prestige that comes along with going to a private school or major university, but if that’s what you’re looking for you’re a fucking moron and I don’t want to hear you crying about your $60,000 debt. And if you majored in underwater basket weaving because that’s your passion, sorry, but I don’t want to hear you complain either. You knew what you were getting yourself into, and it should’ve been obvious that the market for underwater basket weavers is far from lucrative and non-existent.

    The post-secondary educational system is a racket, period. I’m slightly bitter about my $22,000 debt, but then I look at people with five times that and that’s just for their B.A., B.S and I suddenly don’t feel so terrible. The smart thing is to go somewhere cheap like I did. The smarter thing is to go to a community or junior college and get a certificate in massage or nursing or welding or fire fighting or policing or to be a personal trainer. Hell, a nurse and/or firefighter make nearly $60,000/yr in a nearby city and they probably have close to nil in student loans. In my shitty town alone, there are AT LEAST a dozen places to get a massage and every last one charges $50/hr. All those people are getting paid and they don’t have student loans to pay back.

  • Anonymous

    Although i disagree with your premise, “the right to assume debt should exist…” I DO agree with you on your other points.(i.e. financial services out of control, banksters in power, attempt to negotiate…)

    I think i can sway you with a more factually inclined arguement on the complete abolition of student debt  in particular.

    -Student debt is a basically a requirement of higher education in the US/Canada if you do not have
    wealthy parents.  Contradictory to the aims of contemporary pedagogy and arguably democracy which
    require egalitarian democratic educational institutions, and informed citizen public.
    Without going into a deep class analysis this would infer that inequality is institutionalised at the teritiary level (whether public or private and thus running against at least the aims of ‘public education’)

    -Student Debt is psychologically crippling (well all debt can be crippling) but student debt which CANNOT be discharged through bankruptcy (both here and in the US)- and charges interest rates that in other financial services (as you stated above) would be considered usurious (28%+) is considered to be particularly debilitating by psychologists and educators.

    -The most generous models of ‘capitalism” i.e. The Scandinavian Models have entirely done away with  teritiary fees (finland, sweden and norway  and i BELIEVE/but don’t quote me denmark). finland in particular used a loan -model not dissimiliar to the US/canada but found it inherently divisive.

    -Australia had no teritiary fees until 1988- and now has a huge avg student burden.

    -Many  Boomers and Gen X’ers paid nearly 90% less for their tuition than students do currently (using  cdn numbers i have read somewhere the US number is cloaser to 70% less, and the UK 95%), yet they are ones pushing for higher fees….?

    -Fees/Debt has pushed students out of Arts/Humanities AND skilled trades and into technocratic occupations like engineering and hard sciences. Lack of social science, arts, literature, language, religion (comparitive or specific studies like divinity or buddhist), media arts, promotes the very post modern trend of pop culture over cultural knowledge. Pop’ns inclined toward hard sciences/commerce (like Singapore or China) demonstrate willingness to live under oppressive regimes and have higher suicide rates.

    I guess my point is- that IF capitalism is a given, it IS still possible to have democratic egalitarian educational institutions within that model. I think if this our reality, there will still be dozens of places to make “profit” whether in financial services or loans of other sorts.

  • KLS

    i love playing the bill collector game and this is how it gos.When a collector calls i tell them that they made the game but didnt win this month..When they ask what im talking about i tell them about the hat game.Its when i throw all my bills in a hat and pick out 4 lucky winners and that he or she was lucky to even make the Hat…heheheheh

  • KLS

    i love playing the bill collector game and this is how it gos.When a collector calls i tell them that they made the game but didnt win this month..When they ask what im talking about i tell them about the hat game.Its when i throw all my bills in a hat and pick out 4 lucky winners and that he or she was lucky to even make the Hat…heheheheh

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I should probably have expanded further…for the most part…I speak of the concept of debt as a whole…not merely with regard to education. The concept of ‘credit’…the ability to entrust a service or investment to another with the expectation of repayment…is central to both ancient and modern economics…so it would be unrealistic to abandon the concept. It would be realistic to rebuild strict controls that prevent debt slavery and gross abuse of interest…so we agree…

    …for student debt and colleges…the ideal situation is one where A) a portion of the cost is guaranteed by the state for any who meet the entry qualifications, B) grants for performance cover further costs for high achieving students, C) debt terms for remaining costs are forced to reasonable rates for repayment so that they don’t cripple the consumer power of the newly graduated and D) the costs of an education as a whole are held to a level equal to their value…unlike the present, where a person can be indebted for half a lifetime to pay for a degree with comparatively little value in real time wages. This would be a more egalitarian setup…leaving room for lenders and the expectation of repayment…but not in such a predatory sense.

    When I speak of debts not being erased…I mean in the current paradigm that existing debts should not be wholly forgiven (since they were entered into willingly enough albeit under pressure)…but rather partly forgiven…perhaps slashed back to the original amount sans interest, but not purged completely. I went through a bankruptcy some ten years ago…and in my defense…everyone who worked with me regarding repayment for excess debts was excluded from the bankruptcy filing and repaid in full. The companies who refused smaller payments or terms other than instant gratification…took the hit in court and received nothing. It particularly helped that I’d tendered offers for slower repayment…and was rebuffed. I respect the concept of owing what you borrowed…but it has to be balanced against fair and unwavering terms from the lender…not rapidly shifting and unreasonable demands. 

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I should probably have expanded further…for the most part…I speak of the concept of debt as a whole…not merely with regard to education. The concept of ‘credit’…the ability to entrust a service or investment to another with the expectation of repayment…is central to both ancient and modern economics…so it would be unrealistic to abandon the concept. It would be realistic to rebuild strict controls that prevent debt slavery and gross abuse of interest…so we agree…

    …for student debt and colleges…the ideal situation is one where A) a portion of the cost is guaranteed by the state for any who meet the entry qualifications, B) grants for performance cover further costs for high achieving students, C) debt terms for remaining costs are forced to reasonable rates for repayment so that they don’t cripple the consumer power of the newly graduated and D) the costs of an education as a whole are held to a level equal to their value…unlike the present, where a person can be indebted for half a lifetime to pay for a degree with comparatively little value in real time wages. This would be a more egalitarian setup…leaving room for lenders and the expectation of repayment…but not in such a predatory sense.

    When I speak of debts not being erased…I mean in the current paradigm that existing debts should not be wholly forgiven (since they were entered into willingly enough albeit under pressure)…but rather partly forgiven…perhaps slashed back to the original amount sans interest, but not purged completely. I went through a bankruptcy some ten years ago…and in my defense…everyone who worked with me regarding repayment for excess debts was excluded from the bankruptcy filing and repaid in full. The companies who refused smaller payments or terms other than instant gratification…took the hit in court and received nothing. It particularly helped that I’d tendered offers for slower repayment…and was rebuffed. I respect the concept of owing what you borrowed…but it has to be balanced against fair and unwavering terms from the lender…not rapidly shifting and unreasonable demands. 

  • troll with a college degree!

    first of all “I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and sh!t out a better arguement.”

    You make no sense and of course everyone is freaken different its obvious “Mr. good at life with a smart wife”.The problem is most institutions like colleges do not encourage or allow unique self expression and want to make you even more automatic and machine like (for a price$$$$$). Of course college is an opportuinity but  if you ask the fish in the pond, sometimes that tasty morscle floating in the water has a hook in it. And  guy you picked the wrong article to come and try to defend college as a valid opportunity because if you drop your white picket fence mind set you can see that the people you are saying are all different are having the same problem getting a return on the investments they made toward their education. Its a college casino and the house always wins. You are right college is an opportunity an opportunity for them to make money on top of you. But in your defense almost every industry has this problem of narrow mindness and greed these days. Now you talk about my mothers window again and ill make it my business to troll every comment you make under nuggett. thanks for reading you can go browse something else on your ipad 2 that you were able to aquire due to all your academy and financial success.  

  • im pretty sure it was jesus

    yes yes not everything is good not everything is bad argument boring. we know. We are talking about the bad here like any good news site. And you to me = BAD

  • home schooled TROLL

    No my argument is that the top of the class is usually super nerdy to the point of extreme introversion. There is more to life then financial success buddy and being an intellectual does not guarantee financial success and each class is different then the other. For all i know she was trying to be a giant in a land of midgets which is easy. And financial success if having millions to billions the middle class can not afford to have such shallow status competitions.  

  • Nuggett

    You have proven that you don’t know what you’re talking about.  Good luck with that closed mind.

  • home schooled TROLL

    I want to have better understanding and experiences with your wife. Can she cook? And is she free on tuesday nights? I think I need to be on top of her class.

  • home schooled TROLL

    And you have proven that you are not very creative. And I wish you bad luck with that golden wife.

  • home schooled TROLL

    its funny who you are saying you got a nice loan when everyone posting is complaining about their horrors of their unrealistic financial obligations, you got no sympathy and are trying to create comfusion and irronicly true disinformation ( I love a good word battle in the morning). And you talk about the real world. Trust me buddy the fall from that pedestal is very very hard. And you should make a fund for unexpected disaster, which is what get most high horse people like yourself by surprice. For some reason the tarot card called the The Tower comes to mind when focusing on you…. 

  • pendulum

    I like apprenticeships. Now there you gain some real skills if you have a skilled mentor.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks vox! another well-reasoned response! you’re quite the blog-poet lately;)

    Your personal experience does make a lot of sense regarding debt repayment. I don’t disagree at all with the concept of credit or repayment of pre-existing debts, but i do have an issue with student loans- and maintain that tuition should be wholly subsidised or at the very least dramatically reduced, and those students with current loan balances (public or prvt) should have that balance forgiven. I understand it’s a radical proposition, but given that tuition for some of our contemporary greatest thinkers was a mere 50$ for class fees (disregarding inflation of course) and many of our current technocrats (looking at you Dave Cameron), paid next to nothing, i have a real issue, with the expansion of fees and continued burden of this specific debt.

  • Corey

    “How are they supposed to provide for the general welfare?”

    There is a very specific list of things they’re supposed to do to promote the general welfare. They constitute the rest of Article I Section 8. The clause you cited is merely prefatory; it is not an independent grant of power.

  • Capitalist1950

    there is whole generation of you saps who think any debt you incurred should be forgiven.  did someone hold a gun to your head when you took the money.   what about the people who lent you the $$$.   you knew the terms and when you have not paid a collector should be up your ass.  great lesson for your kids….take the money and then come up with some lame excuse “the man fucked me” for a reason to not meet your obligations.  you are the  problem…..not “the man”.

    • Jamie Lee

      As for when the banks took a pass on colossal debts incurred through outright insanely risky behavior – and it was all forgiven – that was sound business practice?

      I think the sense here is- if they can do it why the fuck shouldn’t we all do it? 

  • Capitalist1950

    there is whole generation of you saps who think any debt you incurred should be forgiven.  did someone hold a gun to your head when you took the money.   what about the people who lent you the $$$.   you knew the terms and when you have not paid a collector should be up your ass.  great lesson for your kids….take the money and then come up with some lame excuse “the man fucked me” for a reason to not meet your obligations.  you are the  problem…..not “the man”.

  • Capitalist1950

    did u borrow? did you pay it back?

  • Guest

    Wahhh…if you don’t like student debt, do what I did and work at the same time as going to school.  When did kids become such massive wusses with a ridiculous sense of entitlement?  

    • Jin The Ninja

      Oh education is an “entitlement” now?

  • Hugh Voltage

    Wahhh…if you don’t like student debt, do what I did and work at the same time as going to school.  When did kids become such massive wusses with a ridiculous sense of entitlement?  

  • De Carabas

    You are correct, sir. My point was to direct ecm_0 to the relevant section. My questions were rhetorical and intended to point out the silliness of the assertion that there is no authorization to redistribute wealth to anyone.

  • Anonymous

    What is the easiest ways to Abolish the student Loan Debt?
     http://www.bastawisy.com/vb/member.php?14451-Dakeviny

  • KrankTheTank

    I agree with most of what you say. Clearly it is an institutionalized scam. However, the answer is not to publicly fund college/university education. For one thing, the logic is inconsistent: It’s unacceptable for students to have to pay back debt, but it’s perfectly acceptable to force others to fund your education through taxation?

    The best option is to repeal the regulations preventing employment in a certain field without a diploma/degree. Allow people the choice of going to school, or self-educating, or educating in an entirely different fashion, and if they can prove they have the skills, allow them to enter their chosen field. This seems to make sense anyway, since if you do a poor job, you’ll be fired (or lose business, if you’re self-employed — same difference) regardless of your level of education. The regulations are what are REALLY preventing skilled people who lack funds from advancing. The fact that college/university can be cost-prohibitive for certain people is just a symptom of the problem.

    This whole idea that everyone is entitled to higher education (or education period) seems to stem from the fact that people have been so neutered by the government that they can’t imagine that they can be educated without specifically going to a school. Nobody believes in themselves anymore, or in the power of accomplishing something together. If the government doesn’t provide it, all is lost.

  • KrankTheTank

    I agree with most of what you say. Clearly it is an institutionalized scam. However, the answer is not to publicly fund college/university education. For one thing, the logic is inconsistent: It’s unacceptable for students to have to pay back debt, but it’s perfectly acceptable to force others to fund your education through taxation?

    The best option is to repeal the regulations preventing employment in a certain field without a diploma/degree. Allow people the choice of going to school, or self-educating, or educating in an entirely different fashion, and if they can prove they have the skills, allow them to enter their chosen field. This seems to make sense anyway, since if you do a poor job, you’ll be fired (or lose business, if you’re self-employed — same difference) regardless of your level of education. The regulations are what are REALLY preventing skilled people who lack funds from advancing. The fact that college/university can be cost-prohibitive for certain people is just a symptom of the problem.

    This whole idea that everyone is entitled to higher education (or education period) seems to stem from the fact that people have been so neutered by the government that they can’t imagine that they can be educated without specifically going to a school. Nobody believes in themselves anymore, or in the power of accomplishing something together. If the government doesn’t provide it, all is lost.

  • Mr Willow

    I am genuinely tired of spelling this out to people. 

    America is governed by the People as laid out by the Constitution—indirectly, sadly, through representation of elected officials. Taxation does nothing but pool individual resources, which fund public programs that seek to benefit society. ‘The government’ does not provide for anyöne. The People provide for one another. 

  • Adam Guest

    Have you seen what’s been happening in Chile lately?

  • Adam Guest

    Have you seen what’s been happening in Chile lately?

  • Mikejones

    Debt=Slavery.  People are now allowed to simply walk away from homes they cannot afford, why not educations they cannot afford?

  • Mikejones

    Debt=Slavery.  People are now allowed to simply walk away from homes they cannot afford, why not educations they cannot afford?

  • Yarga

    NO NO NO If you borrow money you should pay it back! No one forced you to take that loan.

  • Yarga

    NO NO NO If you borrow money you should pay it back! No one forced you to take that loan.

    • Jin The Ninja

      YES YES YES!

      when you borrow money on the condition you will have a job on the back end of graduation and there are NO jobs- you should be able to walk away, Not only that, but if you read the article  you would realise the practice of student loans is predatory and divisive.

  • Christopherdemilio

    Library Card.  I hear it’s free nowadays.

    • Jin The Ninja

      But also a public institution, much as education SHOULD be.

  • Christopherdemilio

    Library Card.  I hear it’s free nowadays.

  • Anonymous

    But How to Possible to Complete a school Loan Debt?
     http://www.scanwestauto.com/forums/member.php?33926-Alaqua

  • Anonymous

    Not abolish it. But the price of education should be coming down, not going up. I mean really, with the technology we have, And the supposed free market, shouldn’t school be cheaper?
    And the student loans should not be a Government monopoly. That’s the next bubble waiting to happen. That’s the real scary part. We are not giving loans out too easily. We haven’t learned a thing from the housing bubble.

  • Anonymous

    Not abolish it. But the price of education should be coming down, not going up. I mean really, with the technology we have, And the supposed free market, shouldn’t school be cheaper?
    And the student loans should not be a Government monopoly. That’s the next bubble waiting to happen. That’s the real scary part. We are not giving loans out too easily. We haven’t learned a thing from the housing bubble.

  • samthor

    Not abolish it. But the price of education should be coming down, not going up. I mean really, with the technology we have, And the supposed free market, shouldn’t school be cheaper?
    And the student loans should not be a Government monopoly. That’s the next bubble waiting to happen. That’s the real scary part. We are not giving loans out too easily. We haven’t learned a thing from the housing bubble.

    • Jin The Ninja

      right wing yammer yammer.

      • samthor

         no… not at all.
        The price of higher education is a scam.
        Student loan system is a now a scam. http://youtu.be/VpZtX32sKVE
        People who already took out these loans, who already signed the papers need help.
        People who have had these loans for years and can’t get out from under, need help.
        Total forgiveness is not the answer. But something can be done.
        We can change the system for the future students and prevent this from continuing; but it will not help those already indebted for life.

        • Jin The Ninja

          Why isn’t total forgiveness the answer? I think it is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/agent139 Jamie Lee

    As for when the banks took a pass on colossal debts incurred through outright insanely risky behavior – and it was all forgiven – that was sound business practice?

    I think the sense here is- if they can do it why the fuck shouldn’t we all do it? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/agent139 Jamie Lee

    Yeah. That’s exactly how it works. 

    And people who work hard at “practical” things all get rewarded and “entitled” “impractical” people who want to do something crazy like raise the standard and level of discussion and thought in this country should be tossed on the street? 

    That’s the kind of nonsense my grandfather used to say. There’s little in this world that I hate more. Well. Get in line. It’s a long fucking line. 

  • Anonymous

    Oh education is an “entitlement” now?

  • Kristin

    When I was in college, I was the editor of a small magazine making $23 an hour. I also did freelance editing work making $20 per hour. I took out student loans because my money from work was going to support my mom who had to go on disability from work. I didn’t worry about it because I had good jobs in publishing that I figured would be there for me when I graduated. I did, and I got a job editing for Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. This was in 09 after the crash, and they were only paying $18, but we were assured of raises soon. A year and a half later, not only did we never have a raise, but they laid off our entire team because they decided editing wasn’t important enough. I couldn’t qualify for unemployment because we were contract workers and the company didn’t pay into unemployment insurance for us. So now I have debt, a family that can’t help, and work two minimum wage jobs and am unable to find anything in publishing because it isn’t doing too well. Not very many of us saw this coming. I didn’t spend 10 years interning and working in a field since I was 16 years old so that I could be 26 and working at a farmer’s market. I did everything I was “supposed” to and had no idea what I was getting myself into.

  • honesty you moron

    either face the fact that your major requires advanced study in order to be useful or shut up and get a job. the current recession is nothing compared to when i graduated in 2002 with 25k in debt and i’m close to paying it off within the next year. life is not a hand out. you kids played in rubber matted playgrounds with helmets for everything. i dont know whether to blame you for being so naive to think you’re entitled or to blame your parents for letting you think you could do something in history with a bachelor’s degree. stop being stupid. think outside the box. no one owes you job. you need to find one or make one.

  • honesty you moron

    either face the fact that your major requires advanced study in order to be useful or shut up and get a job. the current recession is nothing compared to when i graduated in 2002 with 25k in debt and i’m close to paying it off within the next year. life is not a hand out. you kids played in rubber matted playgrounds with helmets for everything. i dont know whether to blame you for being so naive to think you’re entitled or to blame your parents for letting you think you could do something in history with a bachelor’s degree. stop being stupid. think outside the box. no one owes you job. you need to find one or make one.

    • Jin The Ninja

      i can appreciate an entreprenurial spirit, but you entirely missed the point- which may infer your own education was less than viable.

  • guest

    Whether you go to school or not it is best to check all of your options.  That said, the banking system needs to change to be more fair to the consumer. 

  • guest

    Whether you go to school or not it is best to check all of your options.  That said, the banking system needs to change to be more fair to the consumer. 

  • Anonymous

    Yes YES YES!

    when you borrow money on the condition you will have a job on the back end of graduation and there are NO jobs- you should be able to walk away, Not only that, but if you read the article  you would realise the practice of student loans is predatory and divisive.

  • Anonymous

    But also a public institution, much as education SHOULD be.

  • Anonymous

    right wing yammer yammer.

  • Anonymous

    i can appreciate an entreprenurial spirit, but you entirely missed the point- which may infer your own education was less than viable.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, abolish student loan debt if you’ll do that for people who are about to go into debt for school also. Got to be fair about it. 

  • tooCents

    Yeah, abolish student loan debt if you’ll do that for people who are about to go into debt for school also. Got to be fair about it. 

  • La4132

    start planning those student loan forgiveness celebrations early my fellow debtors. invite uncle sam and the university student services staff and work study kids so instrumental in the process- providing personal and personable service until every single detail -written by redundant multitudes of low-paid hard working govt lawyers bankers and accountants- unified to ensure a couple little easily understood and fully comprehended laws codes provisions and govt state and local loan application dispersement repayment dispute process hardship provision and default penalty and third-party reporting agency details an average 12th grade educated borrower from anywhere usa had pushed and pimped through incessant trade school trucking refrigeration veterinary dental assistant phlebotomy and toenail clipping engineer training facility during the mid day and midnight commercial explosion in every market in the content americas puerto rico and guam -also available in SPANISH where available- like gum and candy sex and moronic mid-life crises dumb-ass looking accident lawyer and his friend the other lawyer thats dancing a jig on every rent-a-center flat screen hdtv in the hood. dj debt-free is in the hooowwwse tonight- everything we owe to the federal ho ho ho has to go go go – let me see your shiny new credit score reports in the air 

  • La4132

    start planning those student loan forgiveness celebrations early my fellow debtors. invite uncle sam and the university student services staff and work study kids so instrumental in the process- providing personal and personable service until every single detail -written by redundant multitudes of low-paid hard working govt lawyers bankers and accountants- unified to ensure a couple little easily understood and fully comprehended laws codes provisions and govt state and local loan application dispersement repayment dispute process hardship provision and default penalty and third-party reporting agency details an average 12th grade educated borrower from anywhere usa had pushed and pimped through incessant trade school trucking refrigeration veterinary dental assistant phlebotomy and toenail clipping engineer training facility during the mid day and midnight commercial explosion in every market in the content americas puerto rico and guam -also available in SPANISH where available- like gum and candy sex and moronic mid-life crises dumb-ass looking accident lawyer and his friend the other lawyer thats dancing a jig on every rent-a-center flat screen hdtv in the hood. dj debt-free is in the hooowwwse tonight- everything we owe to the federal ho ho ho has to go go go – let me see your shiny new credit score reports in the air 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ELVARQAQTCKOSF4KL736MX4NN4 Joseph

    I’m sorry to hear your story. That truly sucks for you, and you are truly the victim in a lot of ways.

    Most people in debt, though, don’t share your story or anything near  it. Most of the people I know with hardcore debt simply accrued it because they liked the “prestige’ of going to a big school, even thought that meant taking on loads of debt. Then most of them got worthless or near-worthless degrees (Liberal Arts, HPPE, Forestry, Drama) and have no reasonable way to pay any of it back.

  • Anonymous

     no… not at all.
    The price of higher education is a scam.
    Student loan system is a now a scam. http://youtu.be/VpZtX32sKVE
    People who already took out these loans, who already signed the papers need help.
    People who have had these loans for years and can’t get out from under, need help.
    Total forgiveness is not the answer. But something can be done.
    We can change the system for the future students and prevent this from continuing; but it will not help those already indebted for life.

  • Anonymous

    Why isn’t total forgiveness the answer? I think it is.

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