New Study Says Global Warming Is Real

Author:  Robert A. Rohde (CC)

Author: Robert A. Rohde (CC)

CNN labels the study a “blow to skeptics”:

An independent study of global temperature records has reaffirmed previous conclusions by climate scientists that global warming is real.

The new analysis by the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project examined 1.6 billion temperature reports from 15 data archives stretching back over 200 years in an effort to address scientific concerns raised by climate skeptics about the data used to inform reports published by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Researchers found “reliable evidence” of a rise in average world land temperatures of one degrees Celsius since the mid-1950s.
“Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the United States and the UK,” professor Richard A. Muller, Berkeley Earth’s scientific director said in a statement.

“This confirms that these studies were done carefully and that potential biases identified by climate change skeptics did not seriously affect their conclusions,” Muller added…

[continues at CNN]

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  • emperorreagan

    Still won’t convince skeptics of anything – see further down in the article, where the response was basically “so what, still can’t prove it’s caused by humans!”

    • Malk

      ya I thought the argument was that it was a natural process, not that it wasn’t happening… you’d have to be stupid to say it’s not warmer than it used to be; but is it caused by cars or is it also happening on Venus and Mars and scientists don’t know why.? That would have been a lot more interesting of an article.

      • quartz99

        No, most people who “question” it (read as: close their eyes tightly, put their fingers in their ears and scream “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”) think it’s an outright fabrication and that there’s no rising temperatures, even though it’s easily demonstrable now that it’s happening.

        Just one more example of why the US keeps slipping farther behind. Paying attention to reality is just not something many people in the US are interested in doing anymore.

        • Klem

          Most people I’m aware of who question it don’t have any doubt that the earth is warming. They tell me that it is still warming since the last glaciation. This temperature data simply confirms that the earth has been warming for the last 50 years, terrific to confirm that. But this data is merely more evidence that the climate changes only, it is not evidence that CO2 is the cause.

          Um, slipping farther behind whom?

      • Michaelanthony909

         MALK – you are spot on.  Nearly identical increases in temperature have been recorded by space probes on  Mercury, Venus and Mars to this point.  I think it’s pretty obvious that this is a Dynamic Heliosphere issue and NOT caused by humans.  Our sun is changing and its affecting the entire solar system. That being said, I still think it’s ignorant to blow through finite natural resources with no concern for the future.

        • Ribbit5678
        • Guest

          Agree.  Another aspect to consider is the larger time scale on which our climate fluctuates.  These temperature increases (for earth and elsewhere) are only blips in the large-scale (10k years and up).  Climate scientists do not know the underlying cause for the various patterns in temperature that we see in our marine and ice records.  We do not consider the last 100 years as an outstanding anomaly simply because we have seen it before, and much more amplified.  At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum (the Termination), temperatures rose ~5 degrees C, completely decimating the Northern Hemisphere ice sheets.  

          However, I wouldn’t necessarily say its a solar system-scale mechanism. Various people have their various hypotheses, but the bottom line is we don’t know!

          I could go on forever (I am a glacial geologist/climate scientist), but I agree that people need to calm down, get all of the facts and stop being so selfish with the planet.

        • Andrew

          The sun has been in a cooling trend since 1978.

        • Klem

          True, but erecting a few thousand wind tubines will not stop Antarctica from sublimating to nothing.

          • bilbo baggins

            i thought the glaciers were melting (thereby causing sea levels to rise), not sublimating.  

          • Klem

            Antarctica
            is the largest desert on earth, it stopped snowing there thousands of years ago
            and it has been sublimating ever since. Some areas are melting but the melting
            part is miniscule relative to the size of Antarctica, which is 50% bigger
            than  all of the USA. Either way, the
            moisture will still end up in the ocean.

             

            You’ll
            notice the greenies only talk about melting because melting supports global
            warming and is scary, they never mention sublimation, never. Yet Antarctica
            sublimates far more than it melts.

            Cheers

             

  • emperorreagan

    Still won’t convince skeptics of anything – see further down in the article, where the response was basically “so what, still can’t prove it’s caused by humans!”

  • Malk

    ya I thought the argument was that it was a natural process, not that it wasn’t happening… you’d have to be stupid to say it’s not warmer than it used to be; but is it caused by cars or is it also happening on Venus and Mars and scientists don’t know why.? That would have been a lot more interesting of an article.

  • QovaSuvaTiovla

    The title is covertly misleading. As another commenter indicated, there are two issues: Whether or not the earth has been warming to a significant degree, and whether it is as a result of human activity or natural activity (or, to which factor the greater degree of cause can be attributed). The convenient blending of these issues that tends to occur among those dismissive of the critical view is irresponsible and ignorant. I am quite certain that most of the criticism of the Global Warming hypothesis has been aimed at the later issue rather than the former. 

    • reubenavery

      of course the title is misleading.  majestic does this with all of his posts.

  • QovaSuvaTiovla

    The title is covertly misleading. As another commenter indicated, there are two issues: Whether or not the earth has been warming to a significant degree, and whether it is as a result of human activity or natural activity (or, to which factor the greater degree of cause can be attributed). The convenient blending of these issues that tends to occur among those dismissive of the critical view is irresponsible and ignorant. I am quite certain that most of the criticism of the Global Warming hypothesis has been aimed at the later issue rather than the former. 

  • reubenavery

    Well that’s all fine and good, but global warming is a hoax.  Also we need more oil wells.

    • Andrew

      We need more birth defects too.  And lung cancer.

      • V.

        ill take two please

        • Klem

          Two oil wells?

  • Anonymous

    Well that’s all fine and good, but global warming is a hoax.  Also we need more oil wells.

  • Anonymous

    of course the title is misleading.  majestic does this with all of his posts.

  • 5by5

    Global warming is real.

    The words, “No duh,” come to mind….

  • 5by5

    Global warming is real.

    The words, “No duh,” come to mind….

  • Anonymous

    No, most people who “question” it (read as: close their eyes tightly, put their fingers in their ears and scream “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”) think it’s an outright fabrication and that there’s no rising temperatures, even though it’s easily demonstrable now that it’s happening.

    Just one more example of why the US keeps slipping farther behind. Paying attention to reality is just not something many people in the US are interested in doing anymore.

  • Andrew

    We need more birth defects too.  And lung cancer.

  • Michaelanthony909

     MALK – you are spot on.  Nearly identical increases in temperature have been recorded by space probes on  Mercury, Venus and Mars to this point.  I think it’s pretty obvious that this is a Dynamic Heliosphere issue and NOT caused by humans.  Our sun is changing and its affecting the entire solar system. That being said, I still think it’s ignorant to blow through finite natural resources with no concern for the future.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UM4RDFPYP5FRO4QUM6WIHMZJ6Q Adam

    I think everyone should sit down and actually have a conversation with an actual geologist, not a journalist who is attempting to interpret the data.  My girlfriend is a geologist and this is a conversation we have together and with others quite frequently.  Here’s what everyone needs to understand, the last 50, 100, 500, 1,000 years are not significant in terms of a geological time scale or climate records.  Really you need to look at 10,000 year blocks to see a true geological/climate trend.  DId you know that until the 1860’s the world was in a “mini ice age”.  DId you also read that 1/3 of the climate stations (where they got the temp. readings) in the world are showing a cooling trend and that there are, in fact, glaciers that are expanding right now.  Did you also know that in the past the Earth was actually 2 degrees Celsius warmer then it is today, the sea level was higher and glaciers were smaller.  So, even though I fully believe that climate change has been going on for….over 4.5 Billion years (and any scientist would agree to that) I also see a species not doing what they should so that we have little impact on our environment.

    I plead with you all, if you are curious about climate change go talk with a geologist, take a class, read the scientific papers written by the scientist who actually did the study.  Just don’t rely on articles written by a journalist who can pick out the parts of the study he or she wants for the story they are writing.  This is to important a topic to not be educated on the facts.  Thank you.

    • Ribbit5678

      Adam,  the time scales you mention are more suited to geology, not society-impacting climate change.  If the temperatures rise by a couple of degrees Celcius for just a hundred years, that would be enough to throw the World into turmoil.  Might not matter much to the Earth in the long run, but we might care!  This is true whether it is human-caused or not.

      • Guest

        Geologic time is climate time is solar system time is ecosystem time is human time is time.  The thing is, this is the natural cycle of the earth.  Just because temperatures have been rising over the last century doesn’t mean it might just turn right around in 30 years.  

        I agree that this can and most likely will impact humans (which will require adaptation), but it doesn’t mean it’s the end of times and humans and facebook and whatever.  It means that we are experiencing something that has been happening forever, and could go in any direction over the next few decades.

        Adam’s point was just that it’s important to consider the big picture as well as the small.  This is likely a temporary increase – but we don’t know.  It is crucial that everybody understand what the science is telling us, not the media.  

        • Ribbit5678

          I understand your point.  I only meant that the big picture is somewhat unimportant to the day-to-day lives of humans.  No Chicken Little here, only the point that humans will likely have to deal with shifting agricultural zones and such, which could very well lead to famine and war.  You know the famous saying: “never get involved in a land war in Asia”. :)

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UM4RDFPYP5FRO4QUM6WIHMZJ6Q Adam

        I totally agree with you.  I just think that the article was specific from 1950 to current and that’s not a good sample of a geological/climate trend.  My main point is, that people need to be more educated on this topic.  I think people should care a lot about our environment and where we are headed.  And the answers to the future lie in the sediment of the past, not in an article written by a journalist.  When a journalist writes a story, they have intent on where it’s going and constructs the information accordingly.  When a scientist writes a paper the data they gather writes the story and they just interpret.  Thanks for your reply Ribbit.

      • Anon

        “Might not matter much to the Earth in the long run, but we might care!  This is true whether it is human-caused or not.”

        THANK YOU. My number one point when talking with those who are unconcerned and brush it off merely because they think it’s a scam to make them recycle, or something. Doesn’t friggin’ matter if we’re doing it or not: we can minimize our impact and try to find ways to keep the climate as near to our ideals as possible…

        …Either that or evolve or genetically-engineer ourselves to better fit the new climate…white people are pretty much screwed, but so are Inuits.

    • Klem

      I’m a geologis and I am a climate skeptic for the very same reasons you mentioned above. When I graduated in the mid 1980s climate change was old news, it was not believed to be anthropogenic though. But the Geos graduatiing today are for the most part climate alarmists. The science that is being taught today is somehow different from the way I was taught. Some of what passes for climate science today would have gotten me a fat zero when I was in undergrad science. Times have changed.

      When it comes down to it anthropogenic climate change is ideologically driven, right from college. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UM4RDFPYP5FRO4QUM6WIHMZJ6Q Adam

    I think everyone should sit down and actually have a conversation with an actual geologist, not a journalist who is attempting to interpret the data.  My girlfriend is a geologist and this is a conversation we have together and with others quite frequently.  Here’s what everyone needs to understand, the last 50, 100, 500, 1,000 years are not significant in terms of a geological time scale or climate records.  Really you need to look at 10,000 year blocks to see a true geological/climate trend.  DId you know that until the 1860’s the world was in a “mini ice age”.  DId you also read that 1/3 of the climate stations (where they got the temp. readings) in the world are showing a cooling trend and that there are, in fact, glaciers that are expanding right now.  Did you also know that in the past the Earth was actually 2 degrees Celsius warmer then it is today, the sea level was higher and glaciers were smaller.  So, even though I fully believe that climate change has been going on for….over 4.5 Billion years (and any scientist would agree to that) I also see a species not doing what they should so that we have little impact on our environment.

    I plead with you all, if you are curious about climate change go talk with a geologist, take a class, read the scientific papers written by the scientist who actually did the study.  Just don’t rely on articles written by a journalist who can pick out the parts of the study he or she wants for the story they are writing.  This is to important a topic to not be educated on the facts.  Thank you.

  • Ribbit5678
  • Anonymous

    Agree.  Another aspect to consider is the larger time scale on which our climate fluctuates.  These temperature increases (for earth and elsewhere) are only blips in the large-scale (10k years and up).  Climate scientists do not know the underlying cause for the various patterns in temperature that we see in our marine and ice records.  We do not consider the last 100 years as an outstanding anomaly simply because we have seen it before, and much more amplified.  At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum (the Termination), temperatures rose ~5 degrees C, completely decimating the Northern Hemisphere ice sheets.  

    I could go on forever, but I agree that people need to calm down, get all of the facts and stop being so selfish with the planet.

  • Ribbit5678

    Adam,  the time scales you mention are more suited to geology, not society-impacting climate change.  If the temperatures rise by a couple of degrees Celcius for just a hundred years, that would be enough to throw the World into turmoil.  Might not matter much to the Earth in the long run, but we might care!  This is true whether it is human-caused or not.

  • Andrew

    The sun has been in a cooling trend since 1978.

  • Anonymous

    Geologic time is climate time is solar system time is ecosystem time is human time is time.  The thing is, this is the natural cycle of the earth.  Just because temperatures have been rising over the last century doesn’t mean it might just turn right around in 30 years.  

    I agree that this can and most likely will impact humans (which will require adaptation), but it doesn’t mean it’s the end of times and humans and facebook and whatever.  It means that we are experiencing something that has been happening forever, and could go in any direction over the next few decades.

    Adam’s point was just that it’s important to consider the big picture as well as the small.  This is likely a temporary increase – but we don’t know.  It is crucial that everybody understand what the science is telling us, not the media.  

  • Ribbit5678

    I understand your point.  I only meant that the big picture is somewhat unimportant to the day-to-day lives of humans.  No Chicken Little here, only the point that humans will likely have to deal with shifting agricultural zones and such, which could very well lead to famine and war.  You know the famous saying: “never get involved in a land war in Asia”. :)

  • Klem

    I’m a geologis and I am a climate skeptic for the very same reasons you mentioned above. When I graduated in the mid 1980s climate change was old news, it was not believed to be anthropogenic though. But the Geos graduatiing today are for the most part climate alarmists. The science that is being taught today is somehow different from the way I was taught. Some of what passes for climate science today would have gotten me a fat zero when I was in undergrad science. Times have changed.

    When it comes down to it anthropogenic climate change is ideologically driven, right from college. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UM4RDFPYP5FRO4QUM6WIHMZJ6Q Adam

    I totally agree with you.  I just think that the article was specific from 1950 to current and that’s not a good sample of a geological/climate trend.  My main point is, that people need to be more educated on this topic.  I think people should care a lot about our environment and where we are headed.  And the answers to the future lie in the sediment of the past, not in an article written by a journalist.  When a journalist writes a story, they have intent on where it’s going and constructs the information accordingly.  When a scientist writes a paper the data they gather writes the story and they just interpret.  Thanks for your reply Ribbit.

  • Klem

    Most people I’m aware of who question it don’t have any doubt that the earth is warming. They tell me that it is still warming since the last glaciation. This temperature data simply confirms that the earth has been warming for the last 50 years, terrific to confirm that. But this data is merely more evidence that the climate changes only, it is not evidence that CO2 is the cause.

    Um, slipping farther behind whom?

  • V.

    ill take two please

  • Klem

    True, but erecting a few thousand wind tubines will not stop Antarctica from sublimating to nothing.

  • V.

    man that al gore is always right. I have to thank him for this internet stuff too

  • V.

    man that al gore is always right. I have to thank him for this internet stuff too

    • Klem

      Al Gore is my hero. Without him saying ‘the dabate is over, the science is settled’ and also ‘cap&trade is the first step to global governance’, the deniers would never have awoken to the fraud that is anthropogenic climate change.

      cheers

  • Klem

    As Dennis Miller recently said ‘One mans global warming is another’s ‘its nice out’ ”

    cheers

  • Klem

    As Dennis Miller recently said ‘One mans global warming is another’s ‘its nice out’ ”

    cheers

    • Andrew

      Our grandchildren will piss on his grave.

      • Klem

        Or on his National Monument.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=612971548 Kelly DeShawn Davis

    the climate changes.. regardless of who is here to attempt to fix the hole in the ozone layer, decide which creatures should live and breathe on the planet OR what materials, all of which are made FROM the earth, should or shouldn’t be discarded upon the earth.. it’s all a joke on the people that they will be taxed for causing this by breathing.. a carbon footprint>?? we are made of carbon after all.. in the dark ages, people boarded up their windows because the king taxed them for the number of windows they had on their homes.. is this where we are headed?? save the planet, live in a plastic bubble.. buy a smart phone, a smart car, hooray we have a smart meter.. which they will gladly adjust the temperature of your home because you are just too stupid to control any aspect of your life.. right? you’re supposed to say yes, i am smart, i will accept all the smart gifts from the experts.. i’m too busy for anything but television and games.. i do need them controlling everything in my life for me. watching everything i do. save me from myself.. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=612971548 Kelly DeShawn Davis

    the climate changes.. regardless of who is here to attempt to fix the hole in the ozone layer, decide which creatures should live and breathe on the planet OR what materials, all of which are made FROM the earth, should or shouldn’t be discarded upon the earth.. it’s all a joke on the people that they will be taxed for causing this by breathing.. a carbon footprint>?? we are made of carbon after all.. in the dark ages, people boarded up their windows because the king taxed them for the number of windows they had on their homes.. is this where we are headed?? save the planet, live in a plastic bubble.. buy a smart phone, a smart car, hooray we have a smart meter.. which they will gladly adjust the temperature of your home because you are just too stupid to control any aspect of your life.. right? you’re supposed to say yes, i am smart, i will accept all the smart gifts from the experts.. i’m too busy for anything but television and games.. i do need them controlling everything in my life for me. watching everything i do. save me from myself.. 

    • bilbo baggins

      that didn’t make any sense

      • Anarchy Pony

        That it did not…

  • Pandango

    It is ridiculous that our government agencies and research departments like the Department of Commerce, Department of Defense, Department of Energy, Department of the Interior, Department of State, Department of Transportation, Department of Health and Human Services, NASA, National Science Foundation, Smithsonian Institution, United States Agency for International Development, United States Department of Agriculture, and the Environmental Protection Agency have all made statements affirming the realities of Global Warming, yet it is our policy makers in Congress that can’t get on board. This should say something… Our policymakers are peddling doubt on the American people, and are being paid by corporations and individuals to do so. This is not going to stop. The Denial Machine on Global Warming can churn out crap and pseudo-science faster than legitimate scientists can answer and defend. Just look at the website, Watts Up With That? – every day there is something new by a scientist or a so-called scientist who brings up more trash evidence against Climate Change.

  • Pandango

    It is ridiculous that our government agencies and research departments like the Department of Commerce, Department of Defense, Department of Energy, Department of the Interior, Department of State, Department of Transportation, Department of Health and Human Services, NASA, National Science Foundation, Smithsonian Institution, United States Agency for International Development, United States Department of Agriculture, and the Environmental Protection Agency have all made statements affirming the realities of Global Warming, yet it is our policy makers in Congress that can’t get on board. This should say something… Our policymakers are peddling doubt on the American people, and are being paid by corporations and individuals to do so. This is not going to stop. The Denial Machine on Global Warming can churn out crap and pseudo-science faster than legitimate scientists can answer and defend. Just look at the website, Watts Up With That? – every day there is something new by a scientist or a so-called scientist who brings up more trash evidence against Climate Change.

  • bilbo baggins

    i thought the glaciers were melting (thereby causing sea levels to rise), not sublimating.  

  • bilbo baggins

    that didn’t make any sense

  • Anti-Citizen1

    That it did not…

  • Anti-Citizen1

    Gotta love global warming debates on the intertoobz, every crackpot with an axe to grind or nerd who’s trying to be unique comes out peddling garbage or “subversive” theories they read on obscure blogs. 

    Industry pumps out gases into the atmosphere, many of which (besides the ones that are carcinogenic or what have you) retain more heat, they absorb heat from sunlight, more heat remains in the atmosphere than previously, overall temp goes up, more energy goes into climate and weather systems, causing them to become far more chaotic and unpredictable. Weather and climate dictate just about everything on earth, even if it may be indirect.

    There used to be numerous natural systems that disposed of these excess gases, the emission of which has been increasing thanks to that chestnut of a concept of economic growth, like forests and such, as well as the ocean and its various life systems, but through pollution, deforestation and habitat destruction, these systems are no longer doing as good a job as they could previously, so the gases are just slowly building up in the atmosphere doing what they do, retaining heat.

    And of course some of this heat and changing weather is causing what are called positive feedbacks, which may now be causing warming that we have no ability to control, such as the methane escaping from the thawing tundra and from the bottom layers of bodies of water.

    There was also a recent ” once in 100 years” (second in five years)  drought in the amazon which killed millions if not billions of tons of foliage there, the decomposition of which of course acts as another positive feedback as well as prevents any greenhouse gases from being absorbed by the now dead forest.
    It really isn’t very fucking complicated, except it is, because there is a lot to take into account from multiple scientific fields.

     And of course there are the deniers, most of whom are paid by, guess who? The industries most responsible for this kind of pollution, that are out there spreading all kinds of crap theories and doing whatever they can to muddy the waters of discussion on this topic so that their corporate masters can continue with, the incredibly disastrous, business as usual, through which they are able to amass obscene amounts of capital that gives them undue political and societal power in the immediate future. Meanwhile, the disasterous effects of climate destabilization begin to mount a monstrous toll on the various institutions and practices and lands that people and other lifeforms are dependent upon for their very lives. This of course is one more door through which sneaks, disaster capitalism, which exploits the destabilization of regions to gain control over the markets and resources of new lands and populations, which they become essentially enslaved to the empire.

    Welcome to your very own science fiction dystopian future. The natural world is becoming unpredictable and unreliable, meaning survival may only be found within the systems created by man, but of course these systems become more totalitarian and controlling every passing week, with newer shinier techno magnificent ways to spy on you, more and more subtle psycho fabulous ways to control you, more and more laws and interperetations of older laws to control what you may do, and the establishment of permanent states that may never be questioned, that must be accepted as universal truths and not merely as human established systems that exist to serve their populace. It all ties together you see? To paint a magnificent but terrible picture.

    The nightmare is just beginning.

  • Anarchy Pony

    Gotta love global warming debates on the intertoobz, every crackpot with an axe to grind or nerd who’s trying to be unique comes out peddling garbage or “subversive” theories they read on obscure blogs. 

    Industry pumps out gases into the atmosphere, many of which (besides the ones that are carcinogenic or what have you) retain more heat, they absorb heat from sunlight, more heat remains in the atmosphere than previously, overall temp goes up, more energy goes into climate and weather systems, causing them to become far more chaotic and unpredictable. Weather and climate dictate just about everything on earth, even if it may be indirect.

    There used to be numerous natural systems that disposed of these excess gases, the emission of which has been increasing thanks to that chestnut of a concept of economic growth, like forests and such, as well as the ocean and its various life systems, but through pollution, deforestation and habitat destruction, these systems are no longer doing as good a job as they could previously, so the gases are just slowly building up in the atmosphere doing what they do, retaining heat.

    And of course some of this heat and changing weather is causing what are called positive feedbacks, which may now be causing warming that we have no ability to control, such as the methane escaping from the thawing tundra and from the bottom layers of bodies of water.

    There was also a recent ” once in 100 years” (second in five years)  drought in the amazon which killed millions if not billions of tons of foliage there, the decomposition of which of course acts as another positive feedback as well as prevents any greenhouse gases from being absorbed by the now dead forest.
    It really isn’t very fucking complicated, except it is, because there is a lot to take into account from multiple scientific fields.

     And of course there are the deniers, most of whom are paid by, guess who? The industries most responsible for this kind of pollution, that are out there spreading all kinds of crap theories and doing whatever they can to muddy the waters of discussion on this topic so that their corporate masters can continue with, the incredibly disastrous, business as usual, through which they are able to amass obscene amounts of capital that gives them undue political and societal power in the immediate future. Meanwhile, the disasterous effects of climate destabilization begin to mount a monstrous toll on the various institutions and practices and lands that people and other lifeforms are dependent upon for their very lives. This of course is one more door through which sneaks, disaster capitalism, which exploits the destabilization of regions to gain control over the markets and resources of new lands and populations, which they become essentially enslaved to the empire.

    Welcome to your very own science fiction dystopian future. The natural world is becoming unpredictable and unreliable, meaning survival may only be found within the systems created by man, but of course these systems become more totalitarian and controlling every passing week, with newer shinier techno magnificent ways to spy on you, more and more subtle psycho fabulous ways to control you, more and more laws and interperetations of older laws to control what you may do, and the establishment of permanent states that may never be questioned, that must be accepted as universal truths and not merely as human established systems that exist to serve their populace. It all ties together you see? To paint a magnificent but terrible picture.

    The nightmare is just beginning.

    • Andrew

      They can’t take death away from us.  Not forever.

      • Anarchy Pony

        You mean suicide? Well it is illegal. And if you attempt it and fail you end up having to go to what is essentially “rehab”. And I can certainly understand why it would appeal to many, I think about it too. But I really would prefer they direct that violence away from themselves and at the system, or the powers that be, or the state, or whatever you want to call it.
        But really, there is no way to defeat it without a truly massive disengagement of the populace from the system, and that is unlikely. The system has made people dependent on it specifically for that reason, so that people for all practical purposes cannot do so. They depend on it for survival, so they defend as well.
        As Derrick Jensen puts it: “If your experience is that your water comes from the tap and your food comes from the grocery store, you will defend to the death, that way of life.”

    • Pandango

      Right on target.  Your last paragraph is a little suspect, but everything else was perfecto…

      • Anarchy Pony

        Well it all really does flow together, but it isn’t like a conspiracy, it is a kind of synthesis. There isn’t a cabal planning on all of this, it’s just happening, because we are all letting it happen.

  • Andrew

    They can’t take death away from us.  Not forever.

  • Andrew

    Our grandchildren will piss on his grave.

  • Anti-Citizen1

    You mean suicide? Well it is illegal. And if you attempt it and fail you end up having to go to what is essentially “rehab”. And I can certainly understand why it would appeal to many, I think about it too. But I really would prefer they direct that violence away from themselves and at the system, or the powers that be, or the state, or whatever you want to call it.
    But really, there is no way to defeat it without a truly massive disengagement of the populace from the system, and that is unlikely. The system has made people dependent on it specifically for that reason, so that people for all practical purposes cannot do so. They depend on it for survival, so they defend as well.
    As Derrick Jensen puts it: “If your experience is that your water comes from the tap and your food comes from the grocery store, you will defend to the death, that way of life.”

  • Pandango

    Right on target.  Your last paragraph is a little suspect, but everything else was perfecto…

  • Anti-Citizen1

    Well it all really does flow together, but it isn’t like a conspiracy, it is a kind of synthesis. There isn’t a cabal planning on all of this, it’s just happening, because we are all letting it happen.

  • Anon

    “Might not matter much to the Earth in the long run, but we might care!  This is true whether it is human-caused or not.”

    THANK YOU. My number one point when talking with those who are unconcerned and brush it off merely because they think it’s a scam to make them recycle, or something. Doesn’t friggin’ matter if we’re doing it or not: we can minimize our impact and try to find ways to keep the climate as near to our ideals as possible…

    …Either that or evolve or genetically-engineer ourselves to better fit the new climate…white people are pretty much screwed, but so are Inuits.

  • Klem

    Antarctica
    is the largest desert on earth, it stopped snowing there thousands of years ago
    and it has been sublimating ever since. Some areas are melting but the melting
    part is miniscule relative to the size of Antarctica, which is 50% bigger
    than  all of the USA. Either way, the
    moisture will still end up in the ocean.

     

    You’ll
    notice the greenies only talk about melting because melting supports global
    warming and is scary, they never mention sublimation, never. Yet Antarctica
    sublimates far more than it melts.

    Cheers

     

  • Klem

    Two oil wells?

  • Klem

    Or on his National Monument.

  • Klem

    Al Gore is my hero. Without him saying ‘the dabate is over, the science is settled’ and also ‘cap&trade is the first step to global governance’, the deniers would never have awoken to the fraud that is anthropogenic climate change.

    cheers

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