• Redacted

    Christianity is a Religion of hatred. 

    Even the most moderate Christian admits they work to bring about the end of the world. 

    Even the most moderate Christian admits they consider anyone who does not believe as they do is sub human. 

    Even the most moderate Christian glories in child molestation, and does so in the name of their God. 

    Even the most moderate Christian believes Women are property. 

    Even the most moderate Christian believes it is his right to take many wives. 

    Even the most moderate Christian believes that murdering non-believers is the most Holy act.

    Even the most moderate Christian believes that going on Crusade absolves them of sin.

    Even the most moderate Christian believes non whites are inferior.

    And finally, only Christians are so blind as to vote for Ronny “The Racist!” Paul.

    Fan fucking tastic. I can troll.

    • Deetroll

      Same to most religions :/ sad right?

    • Rdv

      No they don’t.

    • dumbsaint

      I’m not Christian, though this bothers me. It’s just not true. You’re harming the argument against Christianity by being unreasonable, not helping it. I’m not going to do the whole list as I’d feel silly but for example: ‘Even the most moderate Christian believes non whites are inferior.’ – All those Christians in Africa and Asia do as well huh? Nonsense.

      All you’re doing is opening the door for someone (anti-crowley most likely) to come along and point out how wrong you are and proving how right they are about being persecuted unfairly.

      There’s plenty of good arguments as for why someone should reconsider Christianity without a hyperbolic Glen Beck-esque beat up.

      • Tuna Ghost

        All you’re doing is opening the door for someone (anti-crowley most likely)

        Ugh, that’s just what we need: That guy being vindicated.

        • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

          I don’t think we ever have to worry about that.

          • Andrew

            Wrong.

            Next time there’s a religious article on Disinfo, I’m not even looking at the comments.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            Sounds like a promise to me.

            Remember, Jeebus doesn’t want you to lie so you’d better stick to your promise.

          • anti-crowley

            Sorry I had to do that Andrew, but the point had to be made.
            -AKA anti-crowley-

          • Andrew

            Matthew 5:39

          • anti-crowley

            Very good, only 31,102 more verses to go, keep it up.

      • anti-crowley

        Honestly dumbsaint, I appreciate your attempt to cut the head off the snake even if it was just to stop me from being right.
        -AKA anti-crowley-

        • dumbsaint

          I had my suspicions when you started replying to everyone in sight. Hopefully you’ve learned that not coming in guns blazing, accusing people of anti-semitism left and right is far more likely to promote honest and interesting discourse. The way you behaved under your old moniker was no less unfair than SuddenlySpam’s comments. I doubt you would have had the conversation you did with Vox Magi had he known he was dealing with the unreasonable person from this thread: http://www.disinfo.com/2011/09/do-you-speak-christianese/

          My only motive was wanting to read something other than the ten thousandth religious flamewar on this website.

          • A Christian

            Yes, I will admit I have been a pain in the butt.  There were some very good points brought up in the last article I posted on that brought to my attention my error.  I was taking offense from one poster and blaming the whole and I was wrong in doing it.  Some of the regulars here have really impressed me with how they carry themselves.  I have to say I have a guilty pleasure of antagonizing those who I take offense from, something I will have to work on.

        • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

          Stop you from being right?  No one has to do that.  You do it yourself far better than anyone here could do. But to give you credit, you are amusing for a while.  That is, until people tire of watching someone make a total fool of themselves every time they post.  

          Hey, I have an idea!  Why don’t you actually answer a direct question?  That would be refreshing and leave everyone in awe and amazement.  Then if you managed to tell the truth at the same time, imagine how stunned everyone would be?

        • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

          Both of you should read the last line where he clearly states it was a troll.  But christians do tend to accept even the most outrageous, ridiculous statements as true.  If they didn’t, how could the be christians?

    • Tuna Ghost

      What is this?  I’m pretty confident you’re aware that none of these are true in even the most remote way.  What exactly is the point here?  What are you trying to accomplish?  Is this a satire of the standard anti-religion posts one can find in the comments section?  If so, well done.

      • supervexi

        I’m glad to see that most of you are denouncing this belligerently false
        demagoguery, rather than mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon.

    • Andrew

      Wrong.  Christians don’t agree on nearly that much.

      • A Christian

        Can we please keep this on a more respectable level, I am really interested on the possible discussion that we can start here.

        • Redacted

          I enjoy Piano music.

    • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

      Please note that the last sentence here states that this post is a troll.  It contains just enough truth, though wildly exaggerated, to inflame the faithful and amuse the cynical.

      It is interesting that wildly exaggerating half-truths is a common theist tactic.  Did you borrow this method or are you also a Poe artist?

  • Anonymous

    Christianity is a Religion of hatred. 

    Even the most moderate Christian admits they work to bring about the end of the world. 

    Even the most moderate Christian admits they consider anyone who does not believe as they do is sub human. 

    Even the most moderate Christian glories in child molestation, and does so in the name of their God. 

    Even the most moderate Christian believes Women are property. 

    Even the most moderate Christian believes it is his right to take many wives. 

    Even the most moderate Christian believes that murdering non-believers is the most Holy act.

  • Deetroll

    Same to most religions :/ sad right?

  • Rdv

    No they don’t.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not even christian and this bothers me. It’s just not true. You’re harming the argument against Christianity by being unreasonable, not helping it. I’m not going to do the whole list as I’d feel silly but for example:’Even the most moderate Christian believes non whites are inferior.’ – All those Christians in Africa and Asia do as well huh? Nonsense.

    All you’re doing is opening the door for someone (anti-crowley most likely) to come along and point out how wrong you are, and proving how right they are about being persecuted unfairly.

    There’s plenty of good arguments as for why someone should reconsider Christianity without a hyperbolic Glen Beck-esque beat up.

  • Tuna Ghost

    What is this?  I’m pretty confident you’re aware that none of these are true in even the most remote way.  What exactly is the point here?  What are you trying to accomplish?  Is this a satire of the standard anti-religion posts one can find in the comments section?  If so, well done.

  • Tuna Ghost

    All you’re doing is opening the door for someone (anti-crowley most likely)

    Ugh, that’s just what we need: That guy being vindicated.

  • Loveworld

    Christianity is very peaceful religion, but most of the people do not follow it.. being born in a community does not mean one is a true christian, but the one who follow is christian… following bible words will make one person a christian.. christian are one who follow the Christ.. christian spread peace and love.. it do not tell about harming anyone, or punishing other person or chopping someone’s head or hitting people with stone.. its only about spreading love.. if anyone do not spread love and gospel then he is a born christian but not a true christian.. 

  • Loveworld

    Christianity is very peaceful religion, but most of the people do not follow it.. being born in a community does not mean one is a true christian, but the one who follow is christian… following bible words will make one person a christian.. christian are one who follow the Christ.. christian spread peace and love.. it do not tell about harming anyone, or punishing other person or chopping someone’s head or hitting people with stone.. its only about spreading love.. if anyone do not spread love and gospel then he is a born christian but not a true christian.. 

  • Anonymous

    I’m glad to see that most of you are denouncing this belligerently false
    demagoguery, rather than mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon.

  • DeepCough

    To address the topic without being a royal dick, the problem with Biblical Literalism in the Western Hemisphere is that it is a by-product of the Protestant tradition, a tradition that preaches the Word of God is the path to Salvation, not the Church (because, at the time of Martin Luther, the Roman Catholic Church was indulging itself with the coinage of people who sinned by giving them absolution). Today’s Christian Fundamentalists insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible: if the Bible says the World was made in six days, then the World was made from Monday to Saturday, and God rested on Sunday. The problem with their interpretation is that it’s absolutely fallacious (you could say retarded), because, for one, language is something that changes over time, so words from 2,000 years ago don’t mean quite the same thing today (the “Do You Speak Christianese?” article addresses this), not to mention metaphors, idioms, symbols, and so forth.

    • Jin The Ninja

      exactly. how many efrees speak extinct syriac dialects? or understand comparative religion enough to discern the nature of “Myths” (not as in fictional stories, but ethnic/religious cosmologies)?

      how many of them realise genesis is comprised of 2 distinct narratives with different styles- if one is familiar with the apocrapha  – you realise the biblical canon is wholey incomplete. redacted in its most current (catholic form) during the council of carthage, although certain scholars have long posited that the council of nicea did debate biblical canon and suggested a very different collection than that which we have now.

      i would pay to see literalists debate any serious christological or canonical issues, since many saints didn’t even agree on a singular interpretation- which resulted in heresies and eastern orthodoxies and alternative readings of the gospels. How it suddenly fits into a neat little box i do not know…

      • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

        there’s me…crazy Gnostic at your service…

        …(long story made short…that latin I studied when cross referring Romance languages…was mostly applied during bible research and study of associated texts…as well as history and literature that were relevant. Th shift of language from translation to translation fascinated me. Especially the original translations/compilings of material that became the bible. We learn more from what was suddenly expunged…and only with the recently recovered texts are we able to learn what was edited out and left behind by history (not to mention the discrete battles between theologies inside the Catholic Church’s early hierarchy.) 

        Viewed as a record of cultural mythology with historical value…outstanding…

        viewed as the infallible, literal word of God with no difficult interpretation required…idiocy. 

        • A Christian

          I have to say, it is not very often you find a Gnostic these days.  If you don’t mind me interjecting on your post, what is your particular “brand” of Gnosticism?  I am only familiar with the historical Gnostic structure of the first 4 centuries.  Do you still believe in the Aeons, Plaroma ect?  If you don’t want to take the time to outline it I understand.

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            I am a firm believer in the Gnostic process…but not in any of the particular specific ‘heresies’ that came about over those early centuries. In essence…the God-concept is experiential…and can only be ideally ‘known’ one a one-on-one basis via introspection/self discovery. A bit of spiritual anarchy if you will. With 7 billion people on the earth today…there should be 7 billion paths to understanding…not a few dozen or a few hundred or a few thousands.

            I found some of the Gnostic heresies fascinating…and their rediscovery over the centuries shaped a great deal of Western esotericism and mysticism. Some saw the angel that fell as a Promethean archetype, a giver of necessary knowledge to man…not a supreme evil to match God in the Zoroastrian sense. Others cobbled together Mithraism and Zoroatrianism, or dashes of mystery cults from Greek/Roman tradition…still others influenced the creation of the Arian sect and Celtic Christianity. The scattered leftovers of info that weren’t destroyed out of fear as the Catholic church gelled into its familiar shape are all that are left to us…but they give a wonderful window into the mystics of the time

          • A Christian

            Thank you for the response, I’m sure you have better things to do than expound to a stranger on this.  One question, would you then consider Christendom as one of those many ways to which one can discover God?  You mentioned that you have spent time studying the early texts which is why I am gravitating towards you on these posts. Just to clarify my stance, I also agree that contemporary Christians have very little in common with the 1st century Church at least by percentage.

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            Your welcome. I’ve never minded polite discussion of religion/spirituality. I find it endlessly fascinating and inspiring at times. Sadly…it isn’t always polite discussion…which makes this doubly a pleasure.

            It isn’t necessarily a compliment to say that Christianity, old and new alike, are also valid paths for some people to find their way to fulfillment/enlightenment…since I also believe that almost any path can do the same…provided that it resonates with a particular individual in the right way and is entered into with appropriate seriousness and intention.

            I have no trouble with the God-concept…but a nearly rabid distrust of human frailty and motives…and a deeply entrenched suspicion that any attempt to organize and ‘dogma-tize’ spirituality is doomed to failure. Something herd-like in our nature seems to drive us to forms groups and cliques and draft requirements and expect agreement…and in that hateful process all things spiritual are snuffed out and ground underfoot…which is a terrible shame, because a life with no spiritual questions seems a dull and pointless journey…at least for me.

            We have a near universal habit of transforming God-concepts into recognizable and comforting shapes…old, male, vengeful, jealous, angry, fearsome, powerful…whatever people need to recognize to feel more like they are worshiping a being like unto themselves in preferences and attitudes. It might just be me…but I cannot envision a being so vast in power being so humanlike in emotion. I can imagine a very distant, very uninvolved force that isn’t emotionally invested in our daily existence…but rather on some nebulous endgame we cannot perceive…but I can’t bring myself to countenance the existence of something we’d call ‘divine’ and yet which behaves like a cantankerous, hormonal teenager. 

            Thus…a life spent searching for sacred truths in many different faiths, penned by many different hands, interpreted by many different minds and cultures. What did I hope to find? I thought there might be some universal truth…something that remained the same no matter where one went or how one viewed the world. Along the way all I found was that every view, every perception is ever so slightly different, so i have to assume that the vast majority…excluding those so damaged that they embrace harm to others, are relatively equal in value…a mass reflection of a whole that no one part can perceive the same way.  

          • A Christian

            I have found that the age old quest to find unity in diversity is what seems to drive that trend you speak of.  I also believe that the “absolutes” of our senses of; evil, justice, love and forgiveness are shared in different systems and manifested in different ways.  I personally found all the systems of thought I looked into lacking in bringing all these together in some coherent fashion.   We all recognize evil, at least that it exists.  This sparks our sense of justice for the evil.  We all at some point express love for another human being and hold great worth in ones ability to forgive others.  If I see a system that does not admit to the existence of evil in the world it turns me off immediately.  Likewise, who can deny the need for justice once evil is uncovered? 

            I cannot deny my logical mind in the need for God to have the capacity for love, being that he most evidently placed that capacity within us.  If God does posses the capacity for love, then forgiveness will necessarily follow.  What kind of a loving being is not capable of forgiveness?  When I examine the life and death of Christ, I find that all of these things are so beautifully addressed and with perfect coherence that I am drawn to his example.  He likewise would need (in order to be a God worth following) the capacity to judge evil, specifically the evil for which the guilty entity is completely unrepentant.  I think that we all share these basic intellectual and emotional needs. We see the punishment of evil in all systems of government, though at times we disagree as to what the definition of that evil is.  There is at least at some level, agreement that certain things are evil, say harming an innocent child or the betrayal of a loved one’s trust.  Sadly, we all seem to be capable of the evil part at least in some capacity.  Anyone I meet that attempts to claim exclusion from that draws a weary eye from me. 

            We all desperately desire the need to be forgiven of things we admit to have done that were wrong.  Any world view that tells me that forgiveness is either not possible or not necessary would not match my inherent mental faculties. 

            I also premise that there is an absolute truth out there, though we most certainly don’t possess the capacity to know it to its fullest definition.  The closer we get to it, the better off we are.  I politely reject flat out the proposal that big T truth is nonexistent and therefor all there is, is the relative version (not truth at all by definition.)  The exclusive existence of relative truth is meaningless without an absolute truth to compare it to.  Thanks for this stimulating conversation.

             

        • Jin The Ninja

          Hey Vox, i realise i owe you now 2 solid replies (i didn’t forget!)

          so here goes:

          Firstly let me thank you for your GREAT post on alternet regarding DADT. I realise i may have positioned myself as disregarding/offending those who perform military service- and that is not my position. My position on the subject is simply that i am anti-imperialist and of course anti-capitalist, and thus positioned to be very critical of wars of occupation/resources. I realise it is a complex subject, but i realise we agree on that complexity (particularly regarding DADT)-if of course i am reading your reply correctly? Obviously i am not against repeal- but neither do i believe (in fact quite the opposite as u can tell) that repeal is progressive- rather merely another co option of queer rights into the aforementioned wars and thus culture of dysfunction (to put it mildly). I hope my alternet post didn’t offend you, or anyone whom has had a military background (or adjacent family) it was reactionary to posts which glorified or grossly overstated repeal’s progressive nature. I appreciate the time you took to write me a reply.

          Onto gnosticism,

          I also find the shift of language from translation VERY interesting, and the emphasis and connotation placed on certain words (i.e. “abomination”) to be cultural or figurative rather than literal.
          I think in the gnostic texts there appears a very diverse and multi-faceted approach to x’tianity which at the same time is both very accessible and yet esoteric/occult. Both of these aspects i find fascinating.
          Gnostic/heretical texts complete the canon of x’tian mythology- to ignore those is akin to ignoring cromwell within the history of england. so illogical. but again what seems like a contemporary (born again) problem is historical and dates back (as you said above) to the early councils which decided the texts included in the modern bible.

      • A Christian

        I believe you refer to Julius Wellhausen”s “Documentary hypothesis”.  Basically stating that there is proof of at least 4 authors in the Pentateuch referred to as J, E, P and D and that it’s authorship spans several centuries or all around 500 BC.  Adherents to this hypothesis also state there are two conflicting accounts in Genesis.  As not to make this a novel, I would suggest a few works by Professor Gleason Archer “Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties” and “A Survey of Old Testament Introduction”.    There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.  You see many examples of the same change in certain terminology from a single source in antiquity.  “For example, a biographical inscription of Uni, an Egyptian official who lived about 2400 B.C., reflects at least four different styles, and yet no one denies the unity of its authorship” (Kitchen, 1966, p. 125).  Needless to say, the claim of multiple authorship in Genesis or the Pentateuch is by no means a consensus amongst scholars.

  • DeepCough

    To address the topic without being a royal dick, the problem with Biblical Literalism in the Western Hemisphere is that it is a by-product of the Protestant tradition, a tradition that preaches the Word of God is the path to Salvation, not the Church (because, at the time of Martin Luther, the Roman Catholic Church was indulging itself with the coinage of people who sinned by giving them absolution). Today’s Christian Fundamentalists insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible: if the Bible says the World was made in six days, then the World was made from Monday to Saturday, and God rested on Sunday. The problem with their interpretation is that it’s absolutely fallacious (you could say retarded), because, for one, language is something that changes over time, so words from 2,000 years ago don’t mean quite the same thing today (the “Do You Speak Christianese?” article addresses this), not to mention metaphors, idioms, symbols, and so forth.

  • DeepCough

    To address the topic without being a royal dick, the problem with Biblical Literalism in the Western Hemisphere is that it is a by-product of the Protestant tradition, a tradition that preaches the Word of God is the path to Salvation, not the Church (because, at the time of Martin Luther, the Roman Catholic Church was indulging itself with the coinage of people who sinned by giving them absolution). Today’s Christian Fundamentalists insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible: if the Bible says the World was made in six days, then the World was made from Monday to Saturday, and God rested on Sunday. The problem with their interpretation is that it’s absolutely fallacious (you could say retarded), because, for one, language is something that changes over time, so words from 2,000 years ago don’t mean quite the same thing today (the “Do You Speak Christianese?” article addresses this), not to mention metaphors, idioms, symbols, and so forth.

  • davakins

    bleh! God wrote the bible?! With ‘his’ own hand????

    • Jin The Ninja

      thats a relatively modern protestant interpretation, yes.

      catholics refer to it as ‘divine inspiration’… i mean at least that makes more sense since some of the gospels were written a century after the christ’s death. impossible to reconcile history and a literalist interpretation.

      • A Christian

        If one examines the non canonical writings, there is strong evidence that the gospels (first four books of the New Testament) were first written in the late first century.  Many confuse the fact that the oldest versions such as the Codex Vaticanus and Alexandrinus date to the later era.  This is an error as there is proof that they were not the original text.  Best estimates of John’s Revelation are that it was between 60-95 AD.  Eusebius claims that the Gospels predated the writings in Revelation.  We also see Polycarp and Irenaeus refer to and often quote from the Gospels in their 2nd century works, meaning that they had already been not only written, but prevalent in Christendom at that time.

        • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

          Still, there is not one contemporary account of any jesus.  Isn’t it strange that the Romans, who kept such good records otherwise, made no mention of any jesus?  This is someone who was supposed to have had great effect socially, politically, religiously, and performed miracles.  Then there was the very public trial and execution.  But not one word, either officially, or in surviving private correspondence has appeared.  

          Christianity is a lie and seems to attract more liars.

          • Tuna Ghost

            By the same token one could claim that there’s no evidence Socrates existed, yet most scholars do not doubt this.  Why is that?

            Do bear in mind that a jewish teacher claiming to be the messiah and being executed for sedition against Rome was not an uncommon thing at the time.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Because no one is insisting Socrates is the only way to anything.  Instead, they admit he was wrong about many things but did propose a logical method of reasoning things.  Christopher Hitchens has a video about the very subject of Socrates:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXAGpCTiGlQ  

            Where are the records of any Jewish teacher claiming to be the messiah?  You avoid my question about why there is no record of any jesus.  I expected that because you know you have no rational answer.

            Christians are closed-minded, arrogant,and violent. Not to mention fools, hypocrites, and liars. Often they are all three at the same time.

            Maybe you choose not to believe facts.  Facts, free speech, and rational thinking are fatal to any religion, of course.

            Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.  For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA.  Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the dark ages.  Get the idea?

            Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.

          • Honu

            I have also wondered about the lack of a historical record about Jesus. When I started seeing the keystones of the life and death of Jesus found cross culturally in many other mythologies, I had to begin questioning the biblical representation of Christ and consider the fact that he may have never existed with the absence of evidence. If Jesus did exist, which I’m still willing to consider despite the evidence (damn my social upbringing), I doubt absolutely his life reflected an iota of the bible’s story.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Despite the number of times I have asked the question, where are the contemporary records that show a jesus existed, I have never received an answer that said, “here, and here’s my proof”.  Instead, I get disclaimers, distortions, and disputes.  All I am asking is, “Why is there no evidence at all?”  Evasions and expressions of distaste for the question only serve to improve my point.

            On my own blog I have an entry about this:  http://slrman.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/does-it-matter-if-jesus-existed/

            My point there is, so what if the message is a compilation of other sources?  There could be some good messages mixed with the myths and distortion.  Which is more important, those messages or the reality?

          • Tuna Ghost

            This topic is addressed in detail in the comments section of this Disinfo article, wherein I am, strangely, arguing that your opinion is not just a “fringe” view, that it is an accepted opinion in scholarly circles.  Evidence for both sides is presented there, I encourage you to take a look.

            http://www.disinfo.com/2011/09/philip-kitchers-new-atheism/

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Thank you for that link.  I have made similar points to people I have personally known.  That your religious views are largely an accident of birth.  If a person had been born in an Islamic society, perhaps Iran, they would be very unlikely to be a christian, or in India, they would likely be a Hindu.  In the end, it seems to mostly depend upon the brainwashing you received as a child.  

            I have posted in my blog the following about my personal experience.  

            Becoming Free

            Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to “think for yourself”.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  

            Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.”  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  

            Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they really lived.

            When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they would “Make me go.”  

            I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.

            Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.

            I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?”  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.

            For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year.  By then, with the credits I had accumulated in high school and summer school,  I had completed a couple of years of college.  Fortunately, I was able to pay for this myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  

            The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I’d like to say that worked, but  subtle hints slowly became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

            What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  There are times if you are to become your own person you must stand firm in what you know to be true.

          • Word Eater

            The bible does say that a child may have to go against his or her parents’ wishes to be a Christian; I guess it works the other way, too.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Thanks for that input.  I admit I don;t recall that being in the bible.  I do remember the part that says if a child curses their parent or defies them that child should be killed, by stoning, I think.

          • Tuna Ghost

            There are no contemporary records.  That’s fairly well known.  The historical records people use as evidence of his existence are Josephus and Tacitus, among several others.  Have you really looked into this subject?  There’s a great deal of writing for each perspective, I’m rather surprised you aren’t aware of what records people are using.  

            Then again, given your “Christians are arrogant, violent, blah blah blah” it’s pretty clear that you’re not coming at this from a neutral perspective, that you have a pretty big ax to grind.  But whatev.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Josephus and Tactius were both writing well after the events described,  So was the earliest biblical mention, the Gospel of Mark, written from 60 to 110 years CE, depending on what biblical scholar you believe.  Yes, I have really looked into this subject in depth for many years.

            As far as my opinion of christians being arrogant, intolerant, and violent, it is based upon personal experience and common knowledge of their actions.  

            If I have an ax to grind it is that of truth and reality.  One thing I have learned in life is that people despise those that tell the truth.  Especially if that truth doesn’t happen to agree with their own cherished delusions. 

            Take the case of the baseball doping scandal. The most vilified person involved was Jose Canseco.  He also happened to be the only one telling the truth.  True, he was not the most popular athlete before this, and I suspect kind of a jerk.  But he was never so despised until he told the truth about steroids and baseball.  

            I have been vilified, threatened, and cursed so often by theists that I could write a book of just that.  Furthermore, in my entire life, whenever I have been cheated, taken advantage of, or otherwise abused, it has always been by a “good christian”.  My impressions and opinions are grounded in facts.  Yes, I know there are christians that are honest, kind, trustworthy people.  I have some for friends, really I do.  But generally when your experience shows that most of a given group are not to be trusted, individuals must earn that trust.

            If you had been repeatedly cheated and abused by people with red hair, would you come to be wary of redheads?  Even if you knew that some were actually good people?

          • A Christian

            Now his stance becomes as clear as finely crafted glass.  With Hitchen’s approach we can see why there is such angst in tone.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            FYI, I have never read anything by Hitchens, Dawkins, or any of the “Four Horsemen”.  It is you making unwarranted assumptions again.

            It is not angst, but disgust with the way people like you assume so many things that are simply not true.  Then you brainwash children with your sick beliefs and work to impose them on everyone else.  Nothing is clear to you.  You have closed your mind to facts, logic and thinking for yourself. Please go away.  I’ve asked you nicely, but in your arrogance, you refuse.  I can also ask not so nicely, but you probably can’t understand that, either.

          • A Christian

            I was simply commenting on the “Hitchens video” that you attached to your comment.  I had assumed that you had watched the video that you attached.  I apologize for doing so.  Again, I plead for your send of rationality to match some emotional control.  We can disagree without being so insulting.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I had watched it.  The difference between us is, I understood it while you clearly did not.

            We can disagree and what you comprehend as insults, other realize are statements of fact.  If you lie, and I say you are a liar, that is not an insult, it’s fact.  To make it simple enough even for you, if it’s true, it’s not an insult.  

          • supervexi

            Ha! Where’s anti-crowley when you need him?! 

            Isn’t anyone going to jump in here, or do prejudiced zealots get to slide by just because they are anti-christian?  I know TunaGhost, Vox Magi, Chaorder, and several others of you care more about honest and open debate than to let this guy go around spewing hate unchecked.

            This is worse than that initial posting by Suddenly Spam, because at least with that, it was hard to believe he wasn’t being sarcastic or ironic…

          • anti-crowley

            No supervexi.  A house divided cannot stand.  Nobody will help the Christian.  Let us be pragmatic here, many here were applauding Jimmy Smith but could not openly comment because he was so open about how he feels.  I will say though, I honestly did enjoy some of the conversation i had with Voxi and E.B. Wolf.  Tuna Ghost pleaded for some self control to no avail, then tried to distract him with conversation to no avail.  I did note that did the same.  To Tuna, we almost achieved your goal of calming the religious debate.  I was actually enjoying it until Smith jumped in.  I waited for you guys to cut him off…but all I got was crickets and the post went dead.  I guess mudslinging keeps things lively and honest.  You cut off the Spam dude, then “vindicated me” with Jimmy Smith.  Question is, do I go back to trolling so since the punching bag approach fails, or can we make another go at the peaceful approach (my vote) ‘ol chap?
            -AKA Anti-Crowley-

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Of course you prefer not to comment on my posts because I have the very annoying habit of telling the truth and asking that you do, too.  Even worse, I back up my statements with proof and you decline to do the same.  

            All you have done is make unwarranted assumptions, and hope no one will call you on them.  Because I do, you whine and moan that you are being “persecuted”.  Well, maybe I do persecute liars because you deserve it.  When you actually demonstrate the truth of anything you have said, I’ll give you credit for it.   It’s unlikely anyone will be holding their breath waiting for you to do that.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            When have I spewed hate?  The only times I have seen hate mentioned has been by A Christian (nee anit-crowley) and now yourself.  Why is that theists like to project their own feelings upon others?  Are you ashamed of them and feel you must assign your own faults to others?  

            I can prove every word I have posted.  I have never lied on here and have often asked others for verifiable evidence of their statements.  Guess how many of done so?  Hint:  The number is less than 1 and more than -1.  

          • Ereffefrefeer

            To me this debate is like two people arguing over whether superman can beat up batman. Or having deep discussions of lord of the rings or star wars. Arguing over fictional stories is hilarious.

          • Andrew

            The real question is whether or not Jesus could beat up Socrates.

          • Tuna Ghost

            Hmm.  Socrates was (allegedly) a soldier who fought in a few wars, and in one of the more homo-erotic works of Plato his skills as a warrior are praised.  Dude was good with a spear, apparently.

            But Jesus was (allegedly) the Son of God and had magic powers, including the ability to bring people, including himself (allegedly), back to life.  So he’s basically a necromancer.  Zombie army!   And since magic > spears, I think Jesus is the safe bet.  

          • A Christian

            Though we were beginning some great discussion here Tuna, I will have to most respectfully depart as this has become a bit childish in tone.  I hope you can forgive me for not continuing this discussion as you were very intriguing and I wish we could have gone farther.  Perhaps in the future we can continue without such interruptions, you seem extremely well read and insightful.  Same to E.B Wolf and VoxMagi, best to all of you.

          • E.B. Wolf

            Actually, a friend sent me a text today that is a bit childish; I think it sums up the believer v non-believer question quite well and is quite elegant in its’ visceral simplicity.

            RELIGION IS LIKE A PENIS:
            It’s fine to have one
            It’s fine to be proud of it
            But please don’t whip it out and start waving it around in public
            And DON’T YOU DARE try to shove it down my child’s throat

          • A Christian

            Clever Wolf, but what of your world view?

          • E.B. Wolf

            When it comes to religion, the little ditty above sums it up nicely.

            If I had to categorize myself, it would be as an Agnostic with strong atheistic leaning. I don’t care what people choose to believe until they organize politically to try and force their worldview and moral codes on me.

          • anti-crowley

            Okay, Tuna I tried the polite non troll approach and look what it got
            me.  I picked up on your valiant effort to stop it, but I noticed most
            of the regulars here didn’t oppose Smith at all.  Certainly not like
            they oppose me for far less antagonistic comments…makes me wonder if
            all the claims made in earlier posts about me being the source of all
            the problems was genuine or just slinging mud at the Christian.   BTW, consider me vindicated!        
                                           -AKA anti-crowley-  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            The reason they oppose you and not me is that I am telling the truth and only asking that you do so, too.  You offer only evasions, lies and denials.  If you ever gave independently verifiable evidence in favor of anything you say, maybe you would get some respect.  Until you do, expect derision and contempt.  It’s what you have earned.  

            Just as a check, see how many “Likes” you have received compared to mine or almost anyone else on here.  

            BTW, when have you ever tried a “non-troll” approach?  By definition, trolls post absurd statements with no supporting evidence so as to provoke a response.  I have never seen you do anything else.  Neither as “A Christian” or as “anti-crowley”.

          • Jesus is Lord

            Maybe that is why christianity has stood the test of time for all these years and increases in number.  James you sir are a boob, and should do more research on subjects before you make ridiculous posts.

            “and the message of the cross is misunderstood by those who are perishing “

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Christianity has not withstood the test of time at all.  It has been proven false, founded upon lies, a system of suppressing people intolerant and the single most evil scam worked upon humanity in all history.

            I have done far more research on religion in general and christianity in particular than you have.  If you really were anything but a gullible fool, you would have discarded this collection of myths, lies, and fairy tales long ago.  You sir, are a fool and hide behind a fake ID to spout nonsense to those who are far better qualified intellectually and ethically than you will ever be.

        • Tuna Ghost

          I had thought that the source for the synoptic gospels, a sort of proto-Mark, was written in the later half of the 1st century, but that the gospels we have today were written long after.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            You may have a point.  Biblical “scholars” often disagree on the timing of different writings.  The gospel of Mark, for example, has been places as anywhere from 42 CE to 110 CE.  From a historical perspective 60 or 70 years isn’t much, but from a practical perspective it’s quite a lot.

            How reliable would an account of the battle of Guadalcanal be if written today by someone who had never been there, read any accounts of it, nor had spoken to anyone who had been there?  

    • A Christian

      That would certainly be a silly stance for one to take…though I have not met a Christian who believes such a thing.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        I have met many christians that insist that the bible is “the literal word of god”.  If you state you have not, either you don’t know any christians or you are simply a liar.

        Whether the ones that state they believe it are telling the truth is another story, hypocrisy and lying are so common with xians that the terms “hypocrite” and “christian” have become semantically equal.  WHen you consider that the entire religion was founded upon lies, none of this is surprising.

  • davakins

    bleh! God wrote the bible?! With ‘his’ own hand????

  • Anonymous

    thats a relatively modern protestant interpretation, yes.

    catholics refer to it as ‘divine inspiration’… i mean at least that makes more sense since some of the gospels were written a century after the christ’s death. impossible to reconcile history and a literalist interpretation.

  • Anonymous

    exactly. how many efrees speak extinct syriac dialects? or understand comparative religion enough to discern the nature of “Myths” (not as in fictional stories, but ethnic/religious cosmologies)?

    how many of them realise genesis is comprised of 2 distinct narratives with different styles- if one is familiar with the apocrapha  – you realise the biblical canon is wholey incomplete. redacted in its most current (catholic form) during the council of carthage, although certain scholars have long posited that the council of nicea did debate biblical canon and suggested a very different collection than that which we have now.

    i would pay to see literalists debate any serious christological or canonical issues, since many saints didn’t even agree on a singular interpretation- which resulted in heresies and eastern orthodoxies and alternative readings of the gospels. How it suddenly fits into a neat little box i do not know…

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    I don’t think we ever have to worry about that.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    there’s me…crazy Gnostic at your service…

    …(long story made short…that latin I studied when cross referring Romance languages…was mostly applied during bible research and study of associated texts…as well as history and literature that were relevant. Th shift of language from translation to translation fascinated me. Especially the original translations/compilings of material that became the bible. We learn more from what was suddenly expunged…and only with the recently recovered texts are we able to learn what was edited out and left behind by history (not to mention the discrete battles between theologies inside the Catholic Church’s early hierarchy.) 

    Viewed as a record of cultural mythology with historical value…outstanding…

    viewed as the infallible, literal word of God with no difficult interpretation required…idiocy. 

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    there’s me…crazy Gnostic at your service…

    …(long story made short…that latin I studied when cross referring Romance languages…was mostly applied during bible research and study of associated texts…as well as history and literature that were relevant. Th shift of language from translation to translation fascinated me. Especially the original translations/compilings of material that became the bible. We learn more from what was suddenly expunged…and only with the recently recovered texts are we able to learn what was edited out and left behind by history (not to mention the discrete battles between theologies inside the Catholic Church’s early hierarchy.) 

    Viewed as a record of cultural mythology with historical value…outstanding…

    viewed as the infallible, literal word of God with no difficult interpretation required…idiocy. 

  • Andrew

    Wrong.  Christians don’t agree on nearly that much.

  • E.B. Wolf

    Classic authoritarian followers. For psych and sociology geeks, Bob Altemeyer’s research provides an interesting view of the phenomenon. 

    http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

  • E.B. Wolf

    Classic authoritarian followers. For psych and sociology geeks, Bob Altemeyer’s research provides an interesting view of the phenomenon. 

    http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

    Altemeyer’s research was the primary inspiration behind John Dean’s book “Conservatives Without Conscience.” It goes a long way toward explaining how people like this can simultaneously believe that the Bible is the literal word of god yet still fanatically defend Social Darwinism (even though they don’t call it that).

    • A Christian

      E.B Wolf, I am very excited to see you have brought Bob Altemeyer’s work into the discussion.  All Christians should read his book, it would prevent the “cult mindset” from taking over and causing such things as the Heaven’s Gate cult from ever occurring again.  I would purpose to you that recently many Atheists (at least Bio-evolutionary types) give the same authoritarian submission to mainstream academia.  Folks such as Christopher Hitchen have collected a following even though he holds no credentials in the area of evolution.

      There are many Christians who fit this role, such as Catholics.  If they believe in the authority given to the office of the Papacy then by definition they must be authoritarians.  But there are many Christians who do not, I would encourage you to perhaps seek the acquaintance of almost any professional theological scholar. 

      I personally believe (partly on faith I admit) that premising the existence of the Christian God, if he has something he wishes to share with the human race, he is capable of ensuring that it is preserved.  The following is where Christians/Jews draw this from the Bible:

      Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a
      furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou
      shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”

      Arguments on this are very specific to a scholar and not really fitting in this setting.  But the intrinsic belief that God would preserve something he wants the world to know is necessarily conclusive when premising that God is real and has something to say that applies to all mankind.  Ultimately though, if you don’t premise that God wants to do so, then there is no reason to believe the Bible is trustworthy at all.  This debate cannot be reconciled when the two Premise compete, and further attempts to solve it are in vain.  Alas, I am belabouring and will cut it short.  Hope to hear back from you E.B.!!!

      • E.B. Wolf

        Without a doubt certain Atheists can be just as authoritarian as the most rabid evangelical. 

        That’s a big part of what impressed me about Altemeyer’s work; looking at what he terms “right-wing authoritarians” as a personality type that is not necessarily one with right wing politics, but means that they tend to submit to whatever their acknowledged authorities may be. Thus, when a person with right wing authoritarian tendencies is born into a social group where left wing politics is the established authority, that is what they absorb and submit to.

        Unfortunately, I don’t share your optimism that reading his work would prevent the “cult mindset” that has gripped the most powerful christian groups in America. By nature, they would either refuse to even hear the argument Altemeyer makes, or simply dismiss it as an attack from a “liberal elitist.” 

        The reason for this is the compartmentalized mindset that characterizes authoritarians. It would be fairly safe to say that many if not most of them are born with a tendency towards that personality type. When it is combined with an upbringing that encourages obedience and an unquestioning submission, you get people who aren’t particularly interested in exposure to ideas that contradict their established worldview. By the time most people would be able to grasp the concepts explored in “The Authoritarians” it is probably far too late to reach them.

        Even more disheartening is the theory, which I happen to agree with, that the technology and culture of the modern world encourages compartmentalized thinking. Not only are we not making progress against authoritarian followers; we’re breeding them in record numbers.

        • A Christian

          I could not agree more on the estimate of compartmentalized approach.  Type in “I’m right” before any claim you want on the search bar and you will re-enforce anything you want!

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.  For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA.  Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the dark ages.  Get the idea?

        Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.

        BTW, “faith” is accepting as true something that has no supporting evidence and perhaps much evidence against it. In other words, it is engaging in willful stupidity.

        • A Christian

          I must say if we are discussing religion as a whole then I certainly agree with you.  However, I see the trend that anything that gets mixed with government tends to gave this trend.  I submit that it is not usually the belief system, but bad people seeking power or seeking to keep it that use anything they can to control the masses, which any world view most certainly does.  Let us take for example Joseph Stalin, killing almost 15,000,000 of his own citizens under an Atheistic regime. Now, I don’t blame Atheism for this, I blame Stalin.

          When I say I have faith in my brother, it has more to do with trust in what is proven in the past.  That is the only use of the word in the Bible.  What would you say you do when you accept that an random arrangement of proteins was struck by lightning in order to bring about an enzyme and spontaneous life.  The odds of that very act have been calculated to be 1/1^40,000 (to the power of 40,000) which happens to be a number larger than the number of molecules in the universe.  If one were to try and compute the chances of DNA to RNA by chance, we do not have a number large enough to express it.  My friend, in logical coherent science, that probability is considered zero.

          I see you are pretty upset, or perhaps you are just quoting Sam Harris or Dawkins.  Either way, we would all appreciate some valid discussion points along with your name calling if we are to respond.  I encourage you, now that you have gotten it out of your system to simply have a discussion with us as everyone else here has managed to do thus far.  Hope to hear from you soon Mr. Smith.  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I am disappointed you would use a ludicrous argument like “the odds are against it”.  I had thought you were more intelligent than that.  The odds mean nothing.  For example, if the Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) of an electronic device is 10,000 hours, that’s an average.  Some will last 20,000 hours or even longer.  Some will fail during the first hour.    So you “statistics are meaningless drivel. typical of nonsensical theist arguments.

            FYI, I have never read Dawkins or Harris, so I am quoting neither of them.  

            What you term name calling is nothing more than statements of observed fact.

            I have given discussion points and you respond with amazingly silly statements about probability.  As with most theists, anything you cannot immediately understand has to be “god did it”.  Fortunately for rational thinkers, the “god of the gaps” spaces are becoming very narrow.  That could be why specious pseudo science ideas like “it’s just not probable” are becoming so frequent.

            There is no god, jesus never existed, and despite numerous requests, no one has ever produced even slightly creditable proof of either.

          • A Christian

            I had really hoped that you could calm yourself down before posting, but I see that your dislike of anything associated with religion is deep seated.  I will go ahead and apologize for any “Christians” that have caused this hatred.  I would only ask that you separate those who have acted in such a manner from what Christianity actually teaches.  I assume that those who acted in such a manner would have done so no matter what paradigm they subscribe to, its after all human nature to be selfish.  I do not defend Christians who have done wrong, as I am just as guilty as anyone.  To answer your question, the comment about “willful stupidity” is what I was referring to as name calling, I’m sure you cab see why I would consider it so.

            I respectfully disagree on the odds argument.  Science cannot be selective in rejecting odds simply because we do not like the results.  The comparison to electrical engineering and the origins of life are not a comprehensive one.   The sheer numerical difference is enough to demonstrate this, in mathematics a 1:10,000 ratio is not necessarily considered effectively impossible.  The ratio of 1:^40,000 is however, considered most effectively zero.  Ultimately your reasoning is a necessary conclusion of the common evolutionary stance where the premise tends to be “because we see it today, and we premise that we are right, it must necessarily be so.”  We can see that this is most fundamental in its logical flaw.

            There is (to say the least) a “slightly creditable proof” of Joshua Ben Joseph of Galilee having existed.  There are a few writings of early Hellenistic Jews that speak of him.  Now I know that one can simply reject this out of hand as there is no imperial, conclusive proof.  I will say as per the definition of “proof” that you are correct.  However I do think it is more of a credible evidence.  It is enough that even most secular scholars and historians would never attempt to hold the claim that he never existed.  There has to be some plead to the credibility of the mainstream. 

            I think that the label of “God did it” or the “God of the gaps” theory is an over simplified statement or better known as a “straw man” approach.  I will grant you however, that I’m sure that some theistic undereducated Christians may claim that (I cannot speak for them.)  As those of us who understand the theology a bit better, we believe that in some capacity the God of Christendom has in some way created things to be as they are even if it is to set the forces of physics in motion, not to say that he “magically” sustains them.  I would point out that Isaac Newton was a theist who fancied his work as discovering what God has created.

            I reject your claim that I would be considered “irrational” and I think deep down you see already that I am not.  I would ask however, how you rationalize the atheistic claim that evil can exist without establishing a universal good to compare it?  If you recognize the existence of universal good then there is necessarily some source of transcendent good that gives intrinsic value to human life, something that atheistic reasoning cannot explain.  In the evolutionary atheism, good and evil are only relative and therefore only your opinion.  The very fact that you claim the theist to be evil or bad begs the question…

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            When you tell someone to “calm down” it only illustrates that you are smugly arrogant and feel you are superior to that person.  I do not need to calm down, I need for you to act like a decent human being.  But, being a smugly arrogant christian, that is probably well beyond you.

            You also only comprehend those things that suit you.  You ignore those that don’t.  For example, that I have said that I have christian friends that are honest, kind people.  No, we do not agree on the matter of religion, but that doesn’t make them bad people.  They don’t try to “convert” me and we have agreed simply not to discuss anything to do with religion.

            Of course you reject anything I post that doesn’t fit in with your irrational delusions.  But then, free speech, truth, and rational thinking are always fatal to any religion.  

            No, I do not claim all theists to be evil, remember what I have said about the friends I have.  But that knocks the shaky legs from under your statement doesn’t it?

            What I said is, many theists choose to follow a religion clearly built upon lies and then do evil things in the name of that religion.  But you don’t want to believe that either.

            All you have done is avoid my clear statements and introduce nonsensical arguments.  You have shown that you are not a rational person and if I never hear from you again, it would improve my life considerably.  

            You are obviously a person lacking in intellect with no respect for the truth and an ethical coward.  Please go away and peddle your sick beliefs elsewhere.

          • burkanuck

            Jesus never existed? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! WOW! Just when I thought you couldn’t demonstrate a deeper level of ignorance you prove me wrong, and believe me, after some of the things you’ve already posted that was a pretty tall order. Nicely done.

             You can choose to argue that Jesus wasn’t God but to suggest He never existed is so utterly stupid I can’t believe you would even make such an idiotic claim.

            Oh wait…no I’m not.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            As usual, you ignore verifiable facts to remain deep in your delusions.

            Instead of doing nothing but demonstrating more of your own stupidity, why don’t you disprove some of what I said?  LIke “There isn’t one contemporary account of any jesus.”  Or, “The first account is in the gospel of Mark, written from 40 to 110 years after the alleged events.”  

            Instead you choose to ignore those and show your own ignorance and fear of facts yet again.  How about instead of being an intellectual and ethical coward, you present some coherent arguments with verifiable evidence of your own?  Don’t have any?  Then it’s better to quietly slink away instead of looking increasingly stupid while hiding behind a fake ID.  I show my real name, location, and picture.  When you are honest and unafraid to give proof of your statements, you can do that.  When you’re ashamed of what you say, you need to hide yourself.  In your case, rightly so.

            As an example, here’s my very building.  I’m in # 401.  But, always telling the truth, I have nothing to hide.  That’s very unlike you.

        • Pragmatic Athiest

          Where are the warrants for any of this?  Religion caused the Crusades? Really?  That’s a pretty simple approach to it.

          Religion realistically was a tool for all of the events that you mentioned.  Religion itself caused those events no more than it causes a baby to be born or cancers to be cured.  It’s a tool for control.  A pretty useful tool for individuals as your own examples highlight.  You’re automatically inferring that corrupt individuals manipulating the masses is the same thing as religion.  This in its own right is proven false by every religious non profit, church donation, church volunteer, and church christmas caroller on the face of the planet.  Then you go a step beyond that and say “most of the problems are caused by religion”.  I guess if you have a very narrow view of “problem” and associate it with “extremist acts”, but even then it’s still wrong because religion was nothing but a tool in these examples.  An individual used that tool to influence other people to commit violence.

          As far as “most of the problems”, there are plenty of other problems in the world, economies, education, famine, etc which have nothing to do with religion.  If you follow what i’ve seen on the rest of this forum you’ll come back with some angry response and profanity explaining how this is wrong.  So my counterpoint to whatever f bomb you’re going to throw out about my ignorance is this, “you’re putting a lot of faith into religion, are you sure you’re not admitting there’s some higher power orchestrating this”.  Because people in general are too stupid to pull off all the worlds’ problems.

          Finally religion and rational thinking are not mutually exclusive.  At its most fundamental level, religion is the rational choice to accept that something bigger than the individual person is in control.  Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it “irrational” or “willful stupidity”.  I don’t necessarily agree with it but can still respect the arguments on an intellectual level.  Coming out with things like faith = willful stupidity from your earlier post made me flack back to junior high playgrounds and moments of “your stupid” “no your stupid”.

          Civil, Calm post with no profanity for the first time in three days… Ready….. GO  

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Pragmatic atheist?  I don’t think so.  You seem more like a theist disguising himself to try to discount my statements.  

            Like the person, anti-crowley, who hides behind the handle “A Christian” you make statements with no supporting evidence.  But then, maybe you are actually the same person.

            So I give you the same challenge.  Prove anything I said is not true.  

            Religion is a rational choice?  You just lost any semblance of credibility with me.  Explain what is rational about professing belief in what is patently untrue.  

            BTW, it’s “you’re stupid”  And yes, you are.

            Profanity is called for when attempting to get those that are not impressed by anything less.

        • burkanuck

          What a demonstrably false bunch of garbage!

          Why don’t you tell us, Mr. atheist, what “religion” started WWI? What “religion” started WWII and led atheist Hitler to cause the deaths of 15,000,000? What “religion” led atheistcommunist Stalin to starve 30,000,000 of his own citizens? What “religion” led atheist/communist Mao to murder 20,000,000 of his citizens?

          The 20th century was the bloodiest century in the history of mankind. More people died at the hands of atheist pieces of garbage, like you, than had died in all previous conflicts in history.

          Of course it didn’t have anything to do with their Darwinian “survival of the fittest” views did it?

          Of course for anyonee with a functioning braincell it is quite obvious that the problem isn’t “religion” OR “atheism”, it is human nature. The common denominator isn’t any single religion, philosophy or worldview, the common denominator is PEOPLE!

          You are such an ignorant, uninformed fool. talk about engaging in “willful stupidity”. You are the epitome of that description you crazy, obnoxious old man.

  • Anonymous

    We are just gluttons for punishment around here aren’t we? This is going to lead to a flaming troll war you just watch.

  • Anarchy Pony

    We are just gluttons for punishment around here aren’t we? This is going to lead to a flaming troll war you just watch.

    • Anarchy Pony

      Well, maybe it won’t… Color me surprised.

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        *throws a bucket of paint on ya*

        Suprised yet?

        • Anarchy Pony

          What color is surprise anyway? Or is it perhaps a kind of rainbow pattern?

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            you know? i was really wondering that too, so i left it arbitrary

          • anti-crowley

            Don’t say I didn’t try.  Sometimes troll tastes like Atheist.
            -aka anti-crowley-

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            Most of the time, a theist looks, walks, and talks like a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool. You managed all three at the same time.  Keep ignoring the facts, it’s much easier than thinking.

          • A Christian

            Jimmy, are you resorting to copying and pasting your comments from your previous posts now?   I will bet you 30 gazillion dollars (one for every year you believe the earth has existed) that you take prescription pills for hypertension.  Your high blood pressure is not good for Jimmy, maybe you shouldn’t spend so much time doing things like this on the internet.  Perhaps stick with sites that have only atheists.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I’ll bet you anything you care to bet that you never dare to face me, you lying sack of shit.  

            BTW, only my family and close friends are privileged to call me Jimmy.  You can cal me Mr. Smith or Sir.  But I am sure in your arrogant assholery you will not show even common courtesy.  

            Where is that DD214 form?  I want to see where you were even in the military.  But, as usual, you will ignore direct questions and try to change the subject.  That confirms my statement that you are a coward, mentally, morally, and physically.  

            When are you ever going to be an honest person and answer a simple, direct question?  

            You might want to look at a few videos I have posted.  www.vimeo.com, search on slrman.  Some I made for friends, a few I have loaded from other sources, some I have made for fun.  But all are true.  Unlike you, I do not lie.  Everything you see with me in it is the truth.  I can do everything I claim and have done everything I stated.  Don’t you wish you had 1% of that integrity?  

            When do you want to come to Brazil?  That was a rhetorical question, of course.  Everyone knows you will never dare be on the same continent as I am.  You’ll dissemble, evade the issue, attempt to distract attention from your failings with irrelevant issues, and finally hide.  Apparently, being a cowardly, disgusting excuse for a human being doesn’t bother you at all.

          • Word Eater

            You know something, James?  I like what you say, but I hate the way you say it.

            You act like everyone is attacking you all the time and that you are the only one who can save the whole stupid world if they’ll only shut up long enough to listen to your humanistic wisdom.  And you’ll scream and yell and keep on going and going until everybody else does shut up.  Even after everyone else has gone home, you’ll be there getting in the last word because that is all that matters.  The last person to express their opinion, even if it is the same opinion he or she has been expressing for days or years, is obviously the one who “wins.”

            Seriously, grow up.

            You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by repeating the same things over and over again.

            Neither is anti-crowley / a christian.

            But at least he isn’t a foaming asshole about it.  I guess you find smugness worse than raging emotion, and it shows.

            And for the record, I would never come to Brazil because it costs too much.  If you visited the town I live in, I still wouldn’t meet you face to face because I am a pussy and hate confrontation.  I’m a middle-aged white guy and I am afraid of getting punched (or even just yelled at) by an old man.

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            It seems that somehow, probably through no fault of your own, you have received the impression that I care what you think.  If it was from something I said, I do apologize.  It was never my intention to give you that impression.

            You think that someone like “A Christian/Anti-crowley is not working to deliberately provoke me and others?  You must not have read any of his posts.  He is upset because I consistently tell the truth and even worse, the truth about him.  

            I know there is not possibility of altering any part of that feeble mind.  You cannot reason any person away from a position that they did not reach through reason.  My only intention is to point out the lies told, the intellectual, ethical, and physical shortcomings of people like that by always using independently verifiable facts.  As I have said here and elsewhere, people hate you when you tell the truth, especially if that truth destroys one of their cherished illusions.  

            I really could not care less what anyone thinks or says.  I will keep my integrity and honesty.  That alone puts me far ahead of A Christian (which I doubt) and others of his kind.

            FYI, one of the most insulting things you can say to anyone is “grow up”.  It defines an arrogant belief that you are superior to them.  It also implies that you don;t have to prove it, the statement should be taken as is and accepted as the truth.

            So seriously, start thinking rationally and read what you write before you click “Post”.

          • I have no life

            James is a typical example of a person that is entirely consumed by this subject in a negative way.  The over arching question is why does a man spend so much time and energy trying to argue against God.

            “and it you eat of it you will be like God”
             

          • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

            I don’t have to argue against god.  There is not god.  I do enjoy asking  theist fools to prove anything they say is true or to prove anything I say is not true.  Most are like you, they try to distract, deny, delay or evade the issue because they have no rational answers.  

            How about you make a reply that isn;t complete nonsense?  Show some proof for the existence of any god.  

        • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

          Good one!  I really did LOL!  :D

  • A Christian

    Some good points in here, but I have to say I disagree an a few things.  Some things are taken literally and some not.  No Christian I know takes the descriptions given in Revelations for example, as literal.  As for the changing of language, you are on point.  That is why we have the scholars who study those issues to lean on.  One can take a comparative analysis of terms used in other text of the period or of that particular writer if there is any, in order to codify the exegesis.  Some times this can be done with more accuracy than others.  We cannot over simplify by either saying that “any text in the Biblical canon is perfect in translation” or the other end of the spectrum saying “because I can find a few examples the whole is bad”  that is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  We can all keep this from turning into a royal rumble by remembering this fact.

  • A Christian

    I have to say, it is not very often you find a Gnostic these days.  If you don’t mind me interjecting on your post, what is your particular “brand” of Gnosticism?  I am only familiar with the historical Gnostic structure of the first 4 centuries.  Do you still believe in the Aeons, Plaroma ect?  If you don’t want to take the time to outline it I understand.

  • A Christian

    Can we please keep this on a more respectable level, I am really interested on the possible discussion that we can start here.

  • A Christian

    E.B Wolf, I am very excited to see you have brought Bob Altemeyer’s work into the discussion.  All Christians should read his book, it would prevent the “cult mindset” from taking over and causing such things as the Heaven’s Gate cult from ever occurring again.  I would purpose to you that recently many Atheists (at least Bio-evolutionary types) give the same authoritarian submission to mainstream academia.  Folks such as Christopher Hitchen have collected a following even though he holds no credentials in the area of evolution.

    There are many Christians who fit this role, such as Catholics.  If they believe in the authority given to the office of the Papacy then by definition they must be authoritarians.  But there are many Christians who do not, I would encourage you to perhaps seek the acquaintance of almost any professional theological scholar. 

    I personally believe (partly on faith I admit) that premising the existence of the Christian God, if he has something he wishes to share with the human race, he is capable of ensuring that it is preserved.  The following is where Christians/Jews draw this from the Bible:

    Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a
    furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou
    shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”

    Arguments on this are very specific to a scholar and not really fitting in this setting.  But the intrinsic belief that God would preserve something he wants the world to know is necessarily conclusive when premising that God is real and has something to say that applies to all mankind.  Ultimately though, if you don’t premise that God wants to do so, then there is no reason to believe the Bible is trustworthy at all.  This debate cannot be reconciled when the two Premise compete, and further attempts to solve it are in vain.  Alas, I am belabouring and will cut it short.  Hope to hear back from you E.B.!!!

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I am a firm believer in the Gnostic process…but not in any of the particular specific ‘heresies’ that came about over those early centuries. In essence…the God-concept is experiential…and can only be ideally ‘known’ one a one-on-one basis via introspection/self discovery. A bit of spiritual anarchy if you will. With 7 billion people on the earth today…there should be 7 billion paths to understanding…not a few dozen or a few hundred or a few thousands.

    I found some of the Gnostic heresies fascinating…and their rediscovery over the centuries shaped a great deal of Western esotericism and mysticism. Some saw the angel that fell as a Promethean archetype, a giver of necessary knowledge to man…not a supreme evil to match God in the Zoroastrian sense. Others cobbled together Mithraism and Zoroatrianism, or dashes of mystery cults from Greek/Roman tradition…still others influenced the creation of the Arian sect and Celtic Christianity. The scattered leftovers of info that weren’t destroyed out of fear as the Catholic church gelled into its familiar shape are all that are left to us…but they give a wonderful window into the mystics of the time

  • A Christian

    If one examines the non canonical writings, there is strong evidence that the gospels (first four books of the New Testament) were first written in the late first century.  Many confuse the fact that the oldest versions such as the Codex Vaticanus and Alexandrinus date to the later era.  This is an error as there is proof that they were not the original text.  Best estimates of John’s Revelation are that it was between 60-95 AD.  Eusebius claims that the Gospels predated the writings in Revelation.  We also see Polycarp and Irenaeus refer to and often quote from the Gospels in their 2nd century works, meaning that they had already been not only written, but prevalent in Christendom at that time.

  • A Christian

    Thank you for the response, I’m sure you have better things to do than expound to a stranger on this.  One question, would you then consider Christendom as one of those many ways to which one can discover God?  You mentioned that you have spent time studying the early texts which is why I am gravitating towards you on these posts. Just to clarify my stance, I also agree that contemporary Christians have very little in common with the 1st century Church at least by percentage.

  • Anonymous

    Well, maybe it won’t… Color me surprised.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Your welcome. I’ve never minded polite discussion of religion/spirituality. I find it endlessly fascinating and inspiring at times. Sadly…it isn’t always polite discussion…which makes this doubly a pleasure.

    It isn’t necessarily a compliment to say that Christianity, old and new alike, are also valid paths for some people to find their way to fulfillment/enlightenment…since I also believe that almost any path can do the same…provided that it resonates with a particular individual in the right way and is entered into with appropriate seriousness and intention.

    I have no trouble with the God-concept…but a nearly rabid distrust of human frailty and motives…and a deeply entrenched suspicion that any attempt to organize and ‘dogma-tize’ spirituality is doomed to failure. Something herd-like in our nature seems to drive us to forms groups and cliques and draft requirements and expect agreement…and in that hateful process all things spiritual are snuffed out and ground underfoot…which is a terrible shame, because a life with no spiritual questions seems a dull and pointless journey…at least for me.

    We have a near universal habit of transforming God-concepts into recognizable and comforting shapes…old, male, vengeful, jealous, angry, fearsome, powerful…whatever people need to recognize to feel more like they are worshiping a being like unto themselves in preferences and attitudes. It might just be me…but I cannot envision a being so vast in power being so humanlike in emotion. I can imagine a very distant, very uninvolved force that isn’t emotionally invested in our daily existence…but rather on some nebulous endgame we cannot perceive…but I can’t bring myself to countenance the existence of something we’d call ‘divine’ and yet which behaves like a cantankerous, hormonal teenager. 

    Thus…a life spent searching for sacred truths in many different faiths, penned by many different hands, interpreted by many different minds and cultures. What did I hope to find? I thought there might be some universal truth…something that remained the same no matter where one went or how one viewed the world. Along the way all I found was that every view, every perception is ever so slightly different, so i have to assume that the vast majority…excluding those so damaged that they embrace harm to others, are relatively equal in value…a mass reflection of a whole that no one part can perceive the same way.  

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    *throws a bucket of paint on ya*

    Suprised yet?

  • A Christian

    I have found that the age old quest to find unity in diversity is what seems to drive that trend you speak of.  I also believe that the “absolutes” of our senses of; evil, justice, love and forgiveness are shared in different systems and manifested in different ways.  I personally found all the systems of thought I looked into lacking in bringing all these together in some coherent fashion.   We all recognize evil, at least that it exists.  This sparks our sense of justice for the evil.  We all at some point express love for another human being and hold great worth in ones ability to forgive others.  If I see a system that does not admit to the existence of evil in the world it turns me off immediately.  Likewise, who can deny the need for justice once evil is uncovered? 

    I cannot deny my logical mind in the need for God to have the capacity for love, being that he most evidently placed that capacity within us.  If God does posses the capacity for love, then forgiveness will necessarily follow.  What kind of a loving being is not capable of forgiveness?  When I examine the life and death of Christ, I find that all of these things are so beautifully addressed and with perfect coherence that I am drawn to his example.  He likewise would need (in order to be a God worth following) the capacity to judge evil, specifically the evil for which the guilty entity is completely unrepentant.  I think that we all share these basic intellectual and emotional needs. We see the punishment of evil in all systems of government, though at times we disagree as to what the definition of that evil is.  There is at least at some level, agreement that certain things are evil, say harming an innocent child or the betrayal of a loved one’s trust.  Sadly, we all seem to be capable of the evil part at least in some capacity.  Anyone I meet that attempts to claim exclusion from that draws a weary eye from me. 

    We all desperately desire the need to be forgiven of things we admit to have done that were wrong.  Any world view that tells me that forgiveness is either not possible or not necessary would not match my inherent mental faculties. 

    I also premise that there is an absolute truth out there, though we most certainly don’t possess the capacity to know it to its fullest definition.  The closer we get to it, the better off we are.  I politely reject flat out the proposal that big T truth is nonexistent and therefor all there is, is the relative version (not truth at all by definition.)  The exclusive existence of relative truth is meaningless without an absolute truth to compare it to.  Thanks for this stimulating conversation.

     

  • A Christian

    That would certainly be a silly stance for one to take…though I have not met a Christian who believes such a thing.

  • Anonymous

    What color is surprise anyway? Or is it perhaps a kind of rainbow pattern?

  • Anonymous

    What color is surprise anyway? Or is it perhaps a kind of rainbow pattern?

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    you know? i was really wondering that too, so i left it arbitrary

  • E.B. Wolf

    Without a doubt certain Atheists can be just as authoritarian as the most rabid evangelical. 

    That’s a big part of what impressed me about Altemeyer’s work; looking at what he terms “right-wing authoritarians” as a personality type that is not necessarily one with right wing politics, but means that they tend to submit to whatever their acknowledged authorities may be. Thus, when a person with right wing authoritarian tendencies is born into a social group where left wing politics is the established authority, that is what they absorb and submit to.

    Unfortunately, I share your optimism that reading his work would prevent the “cult mindset” that his gripped the most powerful christian groups in America. By nature, they would either refuse to even hear the argument Altemeyer makes, or simply dismiss it as an attack from a “liberal elitist.” 

    The reason for this is the compartmentalized mindset that characterizes authoritarians. It would be fairly safe to say that many if not most of them are born with a tendency towards that personality type. When it is combined with an upbringing that encourages obedience and an unquestioning submission, you get people who aren’t particularly interested in exposure to ideas that contradict their established worldview. By the time most people would be able to grasp the concepts explored in “The Authoritarians” it is probably far too late to reach them.

    Even more disheartening is the theory, which I happen to agree with, that the technology and culture of the modern world encourages compartmentalized thinking. Not only are we not making progress against authoritarian followers; we’re breeding them in record numbers.

  • A Christian

    I believe you refer to Julius Wellhausen”s “Documentary hypothesis”.  Basically stating that there is proof of at least 4 authors in the Pentateuch referred to as J, E, P and D and that it’s authorship spans several centuries or all around 500 BC.  Adherents to this hypothesis also state there are two conflicting accounts in Genesis.  As not to make this a novel, I would suggest a few works by Professor Gleason Archer “Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties” and “A Survey of Old Testament Introduction”.    There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.  You see many examples of the same change in certain terminology from a single source in antiquity.  “For example, a biographical inscription of Uni, an Egyptian official who lived about 2400 B.C., reflects at least four different styles, and yet no one denies the unity of its authorship” (Kitchen, 1966, p. 125).  Needless to say, the claim of multiple authorship in Genesis or the Pentateuch is by no means a consensus amongst scholars.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.  For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA.  Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the dark ages.  Get the idea?

    Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.

    BTW, “faith” is accepting as true something that has no supporting evidence and perhaps much evidence against it. In other words, it is engaging in willful stupidity.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I have met many christians that insist that the bible is “the literal word of god”.  If you state you have not, either you don’t know any christians or you are simply a liar.

    Whether the ones that state they believe it are telling the truth is another story, hypocrisy and lying are so common with xians that the terms “hypocrite” and “christian” have become semantically equal.  WHen you consider that the entire religion was founded upon lies, none of this is surprising.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Still, there is not one contemporary account of any jesus.  Isn’t it strange that the Romans, who kept such good records otherwise, made no mention of any jesus?  This is someone who was supposed to have had great effect socially, politically, religiously, and performed miracles.  Then there was the very public trial and execution.  But not one word, either officially, or in surviving private correspondence has appeared.  

    Christianity is a lie and seems to attract more liars.

  • Tuna Ghost

    I had thought that the source for the synoptic gospels, a sort of proto-Mark, was written in the later half of the 1st century, but that the gospels we have today were written long after.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    By the same token one could claim that there’s no evidence Socrates existed, yet most scholars do not doubt this.  Why is that?

    Do bear in mind that a jewish teacher claiming to be the messiah and being executed for sedition against Rome was not an uncommon thing at the time.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Because no one is insisting Socrates is the only way to anything.  Instead, they admit he was wrong about many things but did propose a logical method of reasoning things.  Christians are closed-minded, arrogant, violent, and the worst people on earth.  

    Christopher Hitchens has a video about the very subject of Socrates:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXAGpCTiGlQ  

    Maybe you choose not to believe facts.  Facts, free speech, and rational thinking are fatal to any religion, of course.Where are the records of any Jewish teacher claiming to be the messiah?  You avoid my question about why there is no record of any jesus.  I expected that because you know you have no rational answer.Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.  For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA.  Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the dark ages.  Get the idea?

    Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.

  • Ereffefrefeer

    To me this debate is like two people arguing over whether superman can beat up batman. Or having deep discussions of lord of the rings or star wars. Arguing over fictional stories is hilarious.

  • Honu

    I have also wondered about the lack of a historical record about Jesus. When I started seeing the keystones of the life and death of Jesus found cross culturally in many other mythologies, I had to begin questioning the biblical representation of Christ and consider the fact that he may have never existed with the absence of evidence. If Jesus did exist, which I’m still willing to consider despite the evidence (damn my social upbringing), I doubt absolutely his life reflected an iota of the bible’s story.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Despite the number of times I have asked the question, where are the contemporary records that show a jesus existed, I have never received an answer that said, “here, and here’s my proof”.  Instead, I get disclaimers, distortions, and disputes.  All I am asking is, “Why is there no evidence at all?”  Evasions and expressions of distaste for the question only serve to improve my point.

    On my own blog I have an entry about this:  http://slrman.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/does-it-matter-if-jesus-existed/

    My point there is, so what if the message is a compilation of other sources?  There could be some good messages mixed with the myths and distortion.  Which is more important, those messages or the reality?

  • Tuna Ghost

    This topic is addressed in detail in the comments section of this Disinfo article, wherein I am, strangely, arguing that your opinion is not just a “fringe” view, that it is an accepted opinion in scholarly circles.  Evidence for both sides is presented there, I encourage you to take a look.

    http://disinfo.com/2011/09/philip-kitchers-new-atheism/

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Thank you for that link.  I have made similar points to people I have personally known.  That your religious views are largely an accident of birth.  If a person had been born in an Islamic society, perhaps Iran, they would be very unlikely to be a christian, or in India, they would likely be a Hindu.  In the end, it seems to mostly depend upon the brainwashing you received as a child.  

    I have posted in my blog the following about my personal experience.  

    Becoming Free

    Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to “think for yourself”.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  

    Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.”  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  

    Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they really lived.

    When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they would “Make me go.”  

    I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.

    Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.

    I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?”  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.

    For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year.  By then, with the credits I had accumulated in high school and summer school,  I had completed a couple of years of college.  Fortunately, I was able to pay for this myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  

    The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I’d like to say that worked, but  subtle hints slowly became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

    What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  There are times if you are to become your own person you must stand firm in what you know to be true.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Thank you for that link.  I have made similar points to people I have personally known.  That your religious views are largely an accident of birth.  If a person had been born in an Islamic society, perhaps Iran, they would be very unlikely to be a christian, or in India, they would likely be a Hindu.  In the end, it seems to mostly depend upon the brainwashing you received as a child.  

    I have posted in my blog the following about my personal experience.  

    Becoming Free

    Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to “think for yourself”.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  

    Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.”  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  

    Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they really lived.

    When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they would “Make me go.”  

    I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.

    Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.

    I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?”  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.

    For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year.  By then, with the credits I had accumulated in high school and summer school,  I had completed a couple of years of college.  Fortunately, I was able to pay for this myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  

    The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I’d like to say that worked, but  subtle hints slowly became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

    What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  There are times if you are to become your own person you must stand firm in what you know to be true.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Thank you for that link.  I have made similar points to people I have personally known.  That your religious views are largely an accident of birth.  If a person had been born in an Islamic society, perhaps Iran, they would be very unlikely to be a christian, or in India, they would likely be a Hindu.  In the end, it seems to mostly depend upon the brainwashing you received as a child.  

    I have posted in my blog the following about my personal experience.  

    Becoming Free

    Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to “think for yourself”.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  

    Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.”  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  

    Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they really lived.

    When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they would “Make me go.”  

    I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.

    Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.

    I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?”  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.

    For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year.  By then, with the credits I had accumulated in high school and summer school,  I had completed a couple of years of college.  Fortunately, I was able to pay for this myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  

    The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I’d like to say that worked, but  subtle hints slowly became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

    What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  There are times if you are to become your own person you must stand firm in what you know to be true.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Thank you for that link.  I have made similar points to people I have personally known.  That your religious views are largely an accident of birth.  If a person had been born in an Islamic society, perhaps Iran, they would be very unlikely to be a christian, or in India, they would likely be a Hindu.  In the end, it seems to mostly depend upon the brainwashing you received as a child.  

    I have posted in my blog the following about my personal experience.  

    Becoming Free

    Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to “think for yourself”.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  

    Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.”  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  

    Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they really lived.

    When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they would “Make me go.”  

    I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.

    Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.

    I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?”  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.

    For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year.  By then, with the credits I had accumulated in high school and summer school,  I had completed a couple of years of college.  Fortunately, I was able to pay for this myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  

    The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I’d like to say that worked, but  subtle hints slowly became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

    What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  There are times if you are to become your own person you must stand firm in what you know to be true.

  • Tuna Ghost

    There are no contemporary records.  That’s fairly well known.  The historical records people use as evidence of his existence are Josephus and Tacitus, among several others.  Have you really looked into this subject?  There’s a great deal of writing for each perspective, I’m rather surprised you aren’t aware of what records people are using.  

    Then again, given your “Christians are arrogant, violent, blah blah blah” it’s pretty clear that you’re not coming at this from a neutral perspective, that you have a pretty big ax to grind.  But whatev.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    There are no contemporary records.  That’s fairly well known.  The historical records people use as evidence of his existence are Josephus and Tacitus, among several others.  Have you really looked into this subject?  There’s a great deal of writing for each perspective, I’m rather surprised you aren’t aware of what records people are using.  

    Then again, given your “Christians are arrogant, violent, blah blah blah” it’s pretty clear that you’re not coming at this from a neutral perspective, that you have a pretty big ax to grind.  But whatev.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    There are no contemporary records.  That’s fairly well known.  The historical records people use as evidence of his existence are Josephus and Tacitus, among several others.  Have you really looked into this subject?  There’s a great deal of writing for each perspective, I’m rather surprised you aren’t aware of what records people are using.  

    Then again, given your “Christians are arrogant, violent, blah blah blah” it’s pretty clear that you’re not coming at this from a neutral perspective, that you have a pretty big ax to grind.  But whatev.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Josephus and Tactius were both writing well after the events described,  So was the earliest biblical mention, the Gospel of Mark, written from 60 to 110 years CE, depending on what biblical scholar you believe.  Yes, I have really looked into this subject in depth for many years.

    As far as my opinion of christians being arrogant, intolerant, and violent, it is based upon personal experience and common knowledge of their actions.  

    If I have an ax to grind it is that of truth and reality.  One thing I have learned in life is that people despise those that tell the truth.  Especially if that truth doesn’t happen to agree with their own cherished delusions. 

    Take the case of the baseball doping scandal. The most vilified person involved was Jose Conseco.  He also happened to be the only one telling the truth.  True, he was not the most popular athlete before this, and I suspect kind of a jerk.  But he was never so despised until he told the truth about steroids and baseball.  

    I have been vilified, threatened, and cursed so often by theists that I could write a book of just that.  Furthermore, in my entire life, whenever I have been cheated, taken advantage of, or otherwise abused, it has always been by a “good christian”.  My impressions and opinions are grounded in facts.  Yes, I know there are christians that are honest, kind, trustworthy people.  I have some for friends, really I do.  But generally when your experience shows that most of a given group are not to be trusted, individuals must earn that trust.

    If you had been repeatedly cheated and abused by people would red hair, would you come to be wary of redheads?  Even if you knew that some were actually good people?  

  • A Christian

    I must say if we are discussing religion as a whole then I certainly agree with you.  However, I see the trend that anything that gets mixed with government tends to gave this trend.  I submit that it is not usually the belief system, but bad people seeking power or seeking to keep it that use anything they can to control the masses, which any world view most certainly does.  Let us take for example Joseph Stalin, killing almost 15,000,000 of his own citizens under an Atheistic regime. Now, I don’t blame Atheism for this, I blame Stalin.

    When I say I have faith in my brother, it has more to do with trust in what is proven in the past.  That is the only use of the word in the Bible.  What would you say you do when you accept that an random arrangement of proteins was struck by lightning in order to bring about an enzyme and spontaneous life.  The odds of that very act have been calculated to be 1/1^40,000 (to the power of 40,000) which happens to be a number larger than the number of molecules in the universe.  If one were to try and compute the chances of DNA to RNA by chance, we do not have a number large enough to express it.  My friend, in logical coherent science, that probability is considered zero.

    I see you are pretty upset, or perhaps you are just quoting Sam Harris or Dawkins.  Either way, we would all appreciate some valid discussion points along with your name calling if we are to respond.  I encourage you, now that you have gotten it out of your system to simply have a discussion with us as everyone else here has managed to do thus far.  Hope to hear from you soon Mr. Smith.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I am disappointed you would use a ludicrous argument like “the odds are against it”.  I had thought you were more intelligent than that.  The odds mean nothing.  For example, if the Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) of an electronic device is 10,000 hours, that’s an average.  Some will last 20,000 hours or even longer.  Some will fail during the first hour.    So you “statistics are meaningless drivel. typical of nonsensical theist arguments.

    FYI, I have never read Dawkins or Harris, so I am quoting neither of them.  

    What you term name calling is nothing more than statements of observed fact.

    I have given discussion points and you respond with amazingly silly statements about probability.  As with most theists, anything you cannot immediately understand has to be “god did it”.  FOrtunately for rational thinkers, the “god of the gaps” spaces are becoming very narrow.  That could be why specious pseudo science ideas like “it’s just not probable” are becoming so frequent.

    There is not god, jesus never existed, and despite numerous request, no one has ever produced even slightly creditable proof of either.  

  • Andrew

    The real question is whether or not Jesus could beat up Socrates.

  • Anonymous

    I enjoy Piano music.

  • Tuna Ghost

    Hmm.  Socrates was (allegedly) a soldier who fought in a few wars, and in one of the more homo-erotic works of Plato his skills as a warrior are praised.  Dude was good with a spear, apparently.

    But Jesus was (allegedly) the Son of God and had magic powers, including the ability to bring people, including himself (allegedly), back to life.  So he’s basically a necromancer.  Zombie army!   And since magic > spears, I think Jesus is the safe bet.  

  • A Christian

    I had really hoped that you could calm yourself down before posting, but I see that your dislike of anything associated with religion is deep seated.  I will go ahead and apologize for any “Christians” that have caused this hatred.  I would only ask that you separate those who have acted in such a manner from what Christianity actually teaches.  I assume that those who acted in such a manner would have done so no matter what paradigm they subscribe to, its after all human nature to be selfish.  I do not defend Christians who have done wrong, as I am just as guilty as anyone.  To answer your question, the comment about “willful stupidity” is what I was referring to as name calling, I’m sure you cab see why I would consider it so.

    I respectfully disagree on the odds argument.  Science cannot be selective in rejecting odds simply because we do not like the results.  The comparison to electrical engineering and the origins of life are not a comprehensive one.   The sheer numerical difference is enough to demonstrate this, in mathematics a 1:10,000 ratio is not necessarily considered effectively impossible.  The ratio of 1:^40,000 is however, considered most effectively zero.  Ultimately your reasoning is a necessary conclusion of the common evolutionary stance where the premise tends to be “because we see it today, and we premise that we are right, it must necessarily be so.”  We can see that this is most fundamental in its logical flaw.

    There is (to say the least) a “slightly creditable proof” of Joshua Ben Joseph of Galilee having existed.  There are a few writings of early Hellenistic Jews that speak of him.  Now I know that one can simply reject this out of hand as there is no imperial, conclusive proof.  I will say as per the definition of “proof” that you are correct.  However I do think it is more of a credible evidence.  It is enough that even most secular scholars and historians would never attempt to hold the claim that he never existed.  There has to be some plead to the credibility of the mainstream. 

    I think that the label of “God did it” or the “God of the gaps” theory is an over simplified statement or better known as a “straw man” approach.  I will grant you however, that I’m sure that some theistic undereducated Christians may claim that (I cannot speak for them.)  As those of us who understand the theology a bit better, we believe that in some capacity the God of Christendom has in some way created things to be as they are even if it is to set the forces of physics in motion, not to say that he “magically” sustains them.  I would point out that Isaac Newton was a theist who fancied his work as discovering what God has created.

    I reject your claim that I would be considered “irrational” and I think deep down you see already that I am not.  I would ask however, how you rationalize the atheistic claim that evil can exist without establishing a universal good to compare it?  If you recognize the existence of universal good then there is necessarily some source of transcendent good that gives intrinsic value to human life, something that atheistic reasoning cannot explain.  In the evolutionary atheism, good and evil are only relative and therefore only your opinion.  The very fact that you claim the theist to be evil or bad begs the question…

  • A Christian

    Mr Smith, I don’t know where to begin to respond on the basis of logical discussion.  Many of your points are presumptuous and are quit literally nothing more than opinion. To clarify, I simply commented on the portion of God writing the entire Bible with his own hand.  Do you really believe that the terms “hypocrite and  Christian have become semantically equal?”  I have not a thesaurus in my possession that demonstrates this claim.

  • A Christian

    I could not agree more on the estimate of compartmentalized approach.  Type in “I’m right” before any claim you want on the search bar and you will re-enforce anything you want!

  • A Christian

    Of note Mr Smith.   I continued to post here because I was learning the views of others in a very polite and respectful atmosphere.  Your approach is causing the very hatred you scorn and clench your fists about, not that different of an approach that has failed in the Middle East for decades.

  • A Christian

    Now his stance becomes as clear as finely crafted glass.  With Hitchen’s approach we can see why there is such angst in tone.

  • A Christian

    Though we were beginning some great discussion here Tuna, I will have to most respectfully depart as this has become a bit childish in tone.  I hope you can forgive me for not continuing this discussion as you were very intriguing and I wish we could have gone farther.  Perhaps in the future we can continue without such interruptions, you seem extremely well read and insightful.  Same to E.B Wolf and VoxMagi, best to all of you.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    When you tell someone to “calm down” it only illustrates that you are smugly arrogant and feel you are superior to that person.  I do not need to calm down, I need for you to act like a decent human being.  But, being a smugly arrogant christian, that is probably well beyond you.

    You also only comprehend those things that suit you.  You ignore those that don’t.  For example, that I have said that I have christian friends that are honest, kind people.  No, we do not agree on the matter of religion, but that doesn’t make them bad people.  They don;t try to “convert” me and we have agreed simply not to discuss anything to do wit religion.

    Of course you reject anything I post that doesn’t fit in with your irrational delusions.  But then, free speech, truth, and rational thinking is always fatal to any religion.  

    No, I do not claim all theists to be evil, remember what I have said about the friends I have.  But that knocks the shaky legs from under your statement doesn’t it?

    What I said is, many theists choose to follow a religion clearly built upon lies and then do evil things in the name of that religion.  But you don;t want to believe that either.

    All you have done is avoid my clear statements and introduce nonsensical arguments.  You have shown that you are not a rational person and if I never hear from you again, it would improve my life considerably.  

    You are obviously a person lacking in intellect with no respect for the truth and an ethical coward.  PLease go away and peddle your sicj beliefs elsewhere.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I didn’t write your thesaurus, but maybe you didn’t notice that.  I was also being sarcastic, but that seems to be beyond your mental capability to understand, either.  

    Yes, christian and hypocrite are the same thing.  I have never met one , even my good friends that was not.  Some like you, are also liars and fools at the same time.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I do not clench my fists.  Again, you are the one making presumptions.  If I hate anything it is because of the evils done by the religions.  Or do you consider bombing family planning clinics, discriminating against gays, threatening people with death and torture to be perfectly OK?  

    Please, just go away, you are wasting my time and yours.  You have yet to make a rational statement and have done nothing but demonstrate what a smug, simple-minded theists you are.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    FYI, I have never read anything by Hitchens, Dawkins, or any of the “Four Horsemen”.  It is you making unwarranted assumptions again.

    It is not angst, but disgust with the way people like you assume so many things that are simply not true.  Then you brainwash children with your sick beliefs and work to impose them on everyone else.  Nothing is clear to you.  You have closed your mind to facts, logic and thinking for yourself. PLease go away.  I’ve asked you nicely, but in your arrogance, you refuse.  I can also ask not so nicely, but you probably can’t understand that, either.

  • A Christian

    I was simply commenting on the “Hitchens video” that you attached to your comment.  I had assumed that you had watched the video that you attached.  I apologize for doing so.  Again, I plead for your send of rationality to match some emotional control.  We can disagree without being so insulting.

  • Anonymous

    Ha! Where’s anti-crowley when you need him?! 

    Isn’t anyone going to jump in here, or do prejudiced zealots get to slide by just because they are anti-christian?  I know TunaGhost, Vox Magi, Chaorder, and several others of you care more about honest and open debate than to let this guy go around spewing hate unchecked.

    This is worse than that initial posting by Suddenly Spam, because at least with that, it was hard to believe he wasn’t being sarcastic or ironic…

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    What are you, some kind of mental masochist?  Do you get cheap thrills from being shown to be a liar, and fool, and a charlatan?

    We cannot agree to disagree as I do with some christian friends because you insist upon being an obnoxious asshole.  

    Emotional control has nothing to do with it.  I have asked you nicely and you continue to be a total shot head.  So here it is, shut the fuck up , you useless piece of shit.  You are a liar, a hypocrite and a fool.  I despise people like you that cannot stop being a total jerk about their imaginary beliefs.  Say whatever you want, I understand that it is necessary for your poor self-image that you have the last word.  I will never reply to you again.  You don;t understand or care about polite request.  Fuck off, moron.

  • Anti-crowley

    Jimmy, I don’t think anyone was trying to say that you could write a thesaurus.  I think you missed the point entirely.  But when you get around to telling us what you actually think instead of mindlessly beating around the bush, this whole panel is drooling in anticipation.

  • Anti-crowley

    Jimmy, I don’t think anyone was trying to say that you could write a thesaurus.  I think you missed the point entirely.  But when you get around to telling us what you actually think instead of mindlessly beating around the bush, this whole panel is drooling in anticipation.

  • anti-crowley

    Okay, Tuna I tried the polite non troll approach and look what it got
    me.  I picked up on your valiant effort to stop it, but I noticed most
    of the regulars here didn’t oppose Smith at all.  Certainly not like
    they oppose me for far less antagonistic comments…makes me wonder if
    all the claims made in earlier posts about me being the source of all
    the problems was genuine or just slinging mud at the Christian.   BTW, consider me vindicated!        
                                   -AKA anti-crowley-  

  • anti-crowley

    Don’t say I didn’t try.  Sometimes troll tastes like Atheist.
    -aka anti-crowley-

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    If there is anyone that doesn’t get the point, it is a profoundly stupid SOB like you.  

    Go fuck yourself you arrogant asshole.

  • Andrew

    Wrong.

    Next time there’s a religious article on Disinfo, I’m not even looking at the comments.

  • anti-crowley

    I got the idea Jim.  Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Moa Zedong all atheist.  Then you bust out your signature quote that you post on all sites where you share your “wisdom.”  BTW, you never asked me nicely to stop posting on this site, if you had said pretty please I would have considered it…the offer is no longer valid though so don’t even think about it. 
    Rufus_T_Firefly…really?

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I did ask you nicely and even said please.  But not to stop posting here, but to stop replying to me.  You naturally are too arrogant in your ignorance and not a decent enough human being to honor that request so I answered rudely.  It seems you are also too stupid to understand that.  

    Too bad you are also too much of a coward to confront me personally.  If you were, I’d treat you to a life changing experience. 

    BTW, do you like sex and travel?

    You do?  Then  fuck off!

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    Sounds like a promise to me.

    Remember, Jeebus doesn’t want you to lie so you’d better stick to your promise.

  • anti-crowley

    No supervexi.  A house divided cannot stand.  Nobody will help the Christian.  Let us be pragmatic here, many here were applauding Jimmy Smith but could not openly comment because he was so open about how he feels.  I will say though, I honestly did enjoy some of the conversation i had with Voxi and E.B. Wolf.  Tuna Ghost pleaded for some self control to no avail, then tried to distract him with conversation to no avail.  I did note that did the same.  To Tuna, we almost achieved your goal of calming the religious debate.  I was actually enjoying it until Smith jumped in.  I waited for you guys to cut him off…but all I got was crickets and the post went dead.  I guess mudslinging keeps things lively and honest.  You cut off the Spam dude, then “vindicated me” with Jimmy Smith.  Question is, do I go back to trolling so since the punching bag approach fails, or can we make another go at the peaceful approach (my vote) ‘ol chap?
    -AKA Anti-Crowley-

  • anti-crowley

    Seriously Jim you are like 60 years old.  I am in my prime, that would just be a sad scene to watch.  Besides, I have spent my entire adult life perfecting my war fighting skills in armed combat, I am learned in close combat, edged weapons and have been a military sniper for over a decade.  Seriously though Jim, that joke redeemed you a bit, however it doesn’t work over the internet.  Notice how you had to answer for me, that ruined the whole delivery.  BTW, I looked again and never saw “pretty please.”

  • anti-crowley

    Why do I get the impression that you are holding your true feelings back?  I sense there is something you want to tell me but are maybe a bit shy…

  • anti-crowley

    Sorry I had to do that Andrew, but the point had to be made.
    -AKA anti-crowley-

  • anti-crowley

    Honestly dumbsaint, I appreciate your attempt to cut the head off the snake even if it was just to stop me from being right.
    -AKA anti-crowley-

  • Andrew

    Matthew 5:39

  • anti-crowley

    Very good, only 31,102 more verses to go, keep it up.

  • Pragmatic Athiest

    Where are the warrants for any of this?  Religion caused the Crusades? Really?  That’s a pretty simple approach to it.

    Religion realistically was a tool for all of the events that you mentioned.  Religion itself caused those events no more than it causes a baby to be born or cancers to be cured.  It’s a tool for control.  A pretty useful tool for individuals as your own examples highlight.  You’re automatically inferring that corrupt individuals manipulating the masses is the same thing as religion.  This in its own right is proven false by every religious non profit, church donation, church volunteer, and church christmas caroller on the face of the planet.  Then you go a step beyond that and say “most of the problems are caused by religion”.  I guess if you have a very narrow view of “problem” and associate it with “extremist acts”, but even then it’s still wrong because religion was nothing but a tool in these examples.  An individual used that tool to influence other people to commit violence.

    As far as “most of the problems”, there are plenty of other problems in the world, economies, education, famine, etc which have nothing to do with religion.  If you follow what i’ve seen on the rest of this forum you’ll come back with some angry response and profanity explaining how this is wrong.  So my counterpoint to whatever f bomb you’re going to throw out about my ignorance is this, “you’re putting a lot of faith into religion, are you sure you’re not admitting there’s some higher power orchestrating this”.  Because people in general are too stupid to pull off all the worlds’ problems.

    Finally religion and rational thinking are not mutually exclusive.  At its most fundamental level, religion is the rational choice to accept that something bigger than the individual person is in control.  Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it “irrational” or “willful stupidity”.  I don’t necessarily agree with it but can still respect the arguments on an intellectual level.  Coming out with things like faith = willful stupidity from your earlier post made me flack back to junior high playgrounds and moments of “your stupid” “no your stupid”.

    Civil, Calm post with no profanity for the first time in three days… Ready….. GO  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You ignorant liar.  FYI, I a almost 69 years old and I am far more skilled  and fit than you.  So tell you what, you ignorant piece of shit.  I’ll pay your way from wherever you are to where I am.  The we shall see who does what to whom.  

    I did ask you nicely now I am telling you.  Accept my offer and I will seriously beat your worthless carcass into a bloody bag of broken bones.  Don’t believe it?  I am putting my money and my skin where my mouth is.  So let’s do it, I am ready, willing, and eager.  You are nothing more than an intellectual, ethical, amd physical coward.

    You are a goddamned liar.  You are not a military sniper and do not have the least amount of combat skills.  Like everything else you say, you make claims without an ounce of proof.  I’ve put the ball into your court on this as I have in everything else.  You’ll hide from this as you have from proving even one of your ridiculous claims.    When you’re ready, shithead.  Come on down.

    I despise a liar like you.  But then, lying is the way of your religion, as I have already proved and you ignored.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    HIde as much as you choose, the fact is, I have challenged you many times to prove even one thing you have said is true or to prove anything I have said is not true.  Like the morally bankrupt jerk you are, you ignore it all.  What a disgusting, cowardly excuse for a human being you are.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Pragmatic atheist?  I don;t think so.  You seem more like a theist disguising himself to try to discount my statements.  

    Like the person, anti-crowley, who hides behind the handle “A Christian” you make statements with no supporting evidence.  But then, maybe you are actually the same person.

    So I give you the same challenge.  Prove anything I said is not true.  

    Religion is a rational choice?  You just lost any semblance of credibility with me.  Explain what is rational about professing belief in what is patently untrue.  

    BTW, it’s “you’re stupid”  And yes, you are.

    Profanity is called for when attempting to get those that are not impressed by anything less.

  • Anonymous

    I had my suspicions when you started replying to everyone in sight. Hopefully you’ve learned that not coming in guns blazing, accusing people of anti-semitism left and right is far more likely to promote honest and interesting discourse. The way you behaved under your old moniker is no less unfair than SuddenlySpam’s comments.

    My only motive was wanting to read something other than the ten thousandth religious flamewar on this website.

  • Anonymous

    I had my suspicions when you started replying to everyone in sight. Hopefully you’ve learned that not coming in guns blazing, accusing people of anti-semitism left and right is far more likely to promote honest and interesting discourse. The way you behaved under your old moniker is no less unfair than SuddenlySpam’s comments.

    My only motive was wanting to read something other than the ten thousandth religious flamewar on this website.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Smith/100000100734966 Richard Smith

    I thought you would appreciate this from the Disinformation website: This quote is from Sam Harris’s The End of Faith: It takes a certain kind of person to believe what no one else believes. To be ruled by ideas for which you have no evidence (and which therefore cannot be justified in conversation with other human beings) is generally a sign that something is seriously wrong with your mind. Clearly there is sanity in numbers.And yet, it is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts, while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window. And so, while religious people are not generally mad, their core beliefs absolutely are. This… is not surprising, since most religions have merely canonized a few products of ancient ignorance and derangement and passed them down as though they were primordial truths. This leaves us believing what no sane person could believe on his own. In fact, it is difficult to imagine a set of beliefs more suggestive of mental illness than those that lie at the heart of many of our religious traditions.

  • Richard Smith

    I thought you would appreciate this from the Disinformation website: This quote is from Sam Harris’s The End of Faith: It takes a certain kind of person to believe what no one else believes. To be ruled by ideas for which you have no evidence (and which therefore cannot be justified in conversation with other human beings) is generally a sign that something is seriously wrong with your mind. Clearly there is sanity in numbers.And yet, it is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts, while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window. And so, while religious people are not generally mad, their core beliefs absolutely are. This… is not surprising, since most religions have merely canonized a few products of ancient ignorance and derangement and passed them down as though they were primordial truths. This leaves us believing what no sane person could believe on his own. In fact, it is difficult to imagine a set of beliefs more suggestive of mental illness than those that lie at the heart of many of our religious traditions.

    • A Christian

      Hey wait a minute, are you related to Jimmy?  Well, I guess I was wrong about everything.  Christianity has withstood many attacks, but from Sam Harris comes the ultimate source of big T truth.  From any other human being on Earth, these unsubstantiated words would be considered just an opinion, but from Harris they are written in stone.  Funny how he mocks others who attempt to wield the same authority such as the Pope.

      • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

        Christianity is not withstanding the age of reason.  More and more people are turning away from it every day.  

        The difference between atheists and idiots like you is we use verifiable facts.  When you are asked for proof, you ignore the question and go into the traditional deny, delay, distract, and dissemble tactics of all theists.  Then, when you are called on those, you ignore everything and declare “Victory through the power of the lord!”  But what’s one more lie among so many?

        Then you whine that no one is attacking me as they do you.  Even for someone of your subnormal intelligence the reason should be obvious.  I use facts, you do not.  It’s hard to attack the truth without resorting to lies.  I know that doesn’t bother you, but there are ethical people on here.  Please do not judge everyone by yourself.

        • Age of reason

          Present your verifiable fact for something from nothing, ready….go.   Give your verifiable fact for any claim to what is good and evil, ready….go.  Give one verifiable fact for the homosapien transitional species, ready…oh why bother you are no different then the accusations you vomit onto this forum.

    • A Christian

       I was going to quote the entire book of “The End of Reason” by Ravi Zacharias, but changed my mind last minute.  I’d take a look at it if you get the time.

    • Word Eater

      When I was a kid / teenager, my friends and I made up a religion called The First Reformed Church of Bob (sort of).  The (sort of) was part of the name.  We had only barely heard of the Cult of the Subgenius at the time.  The religion was based on something we got from a Ouija board.
      It ended up being a bit like Mormonism in that, if you did a good job here, you got a planet to rule after you died.  It also had reincarnation if you didn’t do that well and allowed polygamy and polyandry.
      We worked on that for almost 4 years and it was awesome (mainly because I was the High Priest).
      We made it up and well believed it and it wasn’t weird or stupid to us at the time.
      Too bad we didn’t stick with it or write a book about it.  Maybe I could have been like L. Ron Hubbard.

  • A Christian

    Hey wait a minute, are you related to Jimmy?  Well, I guess I was wrong about everything.  Christianity has withstood many attacks, but from Sam Harris comes the ultimate source of big T truth.  From any other human being on Earth, these unsubstantiated words would be considered just an opinion, but from Harris they are written in stone.  Funny how he mocks others who attempt to wield the same authority such as the Pope.

  • A Christian

     I was going to quote the entire book of “The End of Reason” by Ravi Zacharias, but changed my mind last minute.  I’d take a look at it if you get the time.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    HIding behind a false ID is the mark of a coward and a troll.  I notice you also have become oddly silent about my offer to pay your way here.  You bragged )lied) about that a dangerous person you were but, when I called you out on it, suddenly, you became very absent on the subject.

    So I repeat, you are an intellectual, ethical, and physical coward.  Add to those, a liar, fool, and hypocrite, too.  Anytime you want, I’ll pay your way here and then we’ll see how tough you talk when your personal skin is in the game.  Or, you can continue to slink away with your digital tail between you legs, hoping everyone will forget about it.

    Are you embarrassed that I “outed” you about being “Anti-Crowley” hiding behind a different false ID?  Yes, you can run, but hiding is not so easy, is it?  LMAO as another theist moron.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You are departing because you had your ass handed to you by me every time.  Then I showed you up for being a liar and a coward.  Military sniper!  How about showing us a copy of your DD214 form?  Or do you expect us to believe everything you say with no proof?  You probably do, you accept the colossal stupidity of religion with no proof so why not your own lies, too?

    Run little boy, run!

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Christianity is not withstanding the age of reason.  More and more people are turning away from it every day.  

    The difference between atheists and idiots like you is we use verifiable facts.  When you are asked for proof, you ignore the question and go into the traditional deny, delay, distract, and dissemble tactics of all theists.  Then, when you are called on those, you ignore everything and declare “Victory through the power of the lord!”  But what’s one more lie among so many?

    Then you whine that no one is attacking me as they do you.  Even for someone of your subnormal intelligence the reason should be obvious.  I use facts, you do not.  It’s hard to attack the truth without resorting to lies.  I know that doesn’t bother you, but there are ethical people on here.  Please do not judge everyone by yourself.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Good one!  I really did LOL!  :D

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Most of the time, theists looks, walks, and talks like a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  Yep, you managed all three at the same time.  Keep ignoring the facts, it’s much easier than thinking.

  • A Christian

    Jimmy, are you resorting to copying and pasting your comments from your previous posts now?   I will bet you 30 gazillion dollars (one for every year you believe the earth has existed) that you take prescription pills for hypertension.  Your high blood pressure is not good for Jimmy, maybe you shouldn’t spend so much time doing things like this on the internet.  Perhaps stick with sites that have only atheists.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I’ll bet you anything you care to bet that you never dare to face me, you lying sack of shit.  
    BTW, only my family and close friends are privileged to call me Jimmy.  You can cal me Mr. Smith or Sir.  But I am sure in your arrogant assholery you will not show even common courtesy.  

    Where is that DD214 form?  I want to see where you were even in the military.  But, as usual, you will ignore direct questions and try to change the subject.  That confirms my statement that you are a coward, mentally, morally, and physically.  

    When are you ever going to be an honest person and answer a simple, direct question?  

    You might want to look at a few videos I have posted.  www.vimeo.com, search on slrman.  Some I made for friends, a few I have loaded from other sources, some I have made for fun.  But all are true.  UNlike you, I do not lie.  Everything you see with me in it is the truth.  I can do everything I claim and have done everything I stated.  Don’t you wish you had 1% of that integrity?  

    When do you want to come to Brazil?  That was a rhetorical question, of course.  Everyone knows you will never dare be on the same continent as I am.  You’ll dissemble, evade the issue, attempt to distract attention from your failings with irrelevant issues, and finally hide.  Apparently, being a cowardly, disgusting excuse for a human being doesn’t bother you at all.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Stop you from being right?  No one has to do that.  You do it yourself far better than anyone here could do. But to give you credit, you are amusing for a while.  That is, until people tire of watching someone make a total fool of themselves every time they post.  

    Hey, I have an idea!  Why don’t you actually answer a direct question?  That would be refreshing and leave everyone in awe and amazement.  Then if you managed to tell the truth at the same time, imagine how stunned everyone would be?

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    No you’re not interested in a discussion.  All you want is to preach and to try to find someone gullible enough to believe your lies.  Better you should go to an all-christian site.  The people there are pre-conditioned to believe nonsense.

  • E.B. Wolf

    Actually, a friend sent me a text today that is a bit childish; I think it sums up the believer v non-believer question quite well and is quite elegant in its’ visceral simplicity.

    RELIGION IS LIKE A PENIS:
    It’s fine to have one
    It’s fine to be proud of it
    But please don’t whip it out and start waving it around in public
    And DON’T YOU DARE try to shove it down my child’s throat

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Again, either you are a deeply stupid person of a simple liar.  I have known many christians who take the descriptions in Revelations and everything else in the bible to be nothing but fact and as the literal word of god.  When you say that no christian you know does, I find that impossible to believe unless you live in some remote area with no contract with other people.

    Given your other posts on here, the obvious answer is you lie about this, too.  Then we should all consider that, despite numerous requests, you have never proven one word I have posted is incorrect or that one thing you have posted is true.  Even to the casual observer this says nothing good about you.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Please note that the last sentence here states that this post is a troll.  It contains just enough truth, though wildly exaggerated, to inflame the faithful and amuse the cynical.

    It is interesting that wildly exaggerating half-truths is a common theist tactic.  Did you borrow this method or are you also a Poe artist?

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Both of you should read the last line where he clearly states it was a troll.  But christians do tend to accept even the most outrageous, ridiculous statements as true.  If they didn’t, how could the be christians?

  • A Christian

    Yes, I will admit I have been a pain in the butt.  There were some very good points brought up in the last article I posted on that brought to my attention my error.  I was taking offense from one poster and blaming the whole and I was wrong in doing it.  Some of the regulars here have really impressed me with how they carry themselves.  I have to say I have a guilty pleasure of antagonizing those who I take offense from, something I will have to work on.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    When have I spewed hate?  The only times I have seen hate mentioned has been by A Christian (nee anit-crowley) and now yourself.  Why is that theists like to project their own feelings upon others?  Are you ashamed of them and feel you must assign your own faults to others?  

    I can prove every word I have posted.  I have never lied on here and have often asked others for verifiable evidence of their statements.  Guess how many of done so?  Hint:  The number is less than 1 and more than -1.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Of course you prefer not to comment on my posts because I have the very annoying habit of telling the truth and asking that you do, too.  Even worse, I back up my statements with proof and you decline to do the same.  

    All you have done is make unwarranted assumptions, and hope no one will call you on them.  Because I do, you whine and moan that you are being “persecuted”/  Well, maybe I do persecute liars because you deserve it.  When you actually demonstrate the truth of anything you have said, I’ll give you credit for it.   It’s unlikely anyone will be holding their breath waiting for you to do that/

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I had watched it.  The difference between us is, I understood it while you clearly did not.

    We can disagree and what you comprehend as insults, other realize are statements of fact.  If you lie, and I say you are a liar, that is not an insult, it’s fact.  To make it simple enough even for you, if it’s true, it’s not an insult.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    The reason they oppose you and not me is that I am telling the truth and only asking that you do so, too.  You offer only evasions, lies and denials.  If you ever gave independently verifiable evidence in favor of anything you say, maybe you would get some respect.  UNtil you do, expect derision and contempt.  It’s what you have earned.  

    Just as a check, see how many “Likes” you have received compared to mine or almost anyone else on here.  

    BTW, when have you ever tried a “non-troll” approach.  By definition, trolls post absurd statements with no supporting evidence so as to provoke a response.  I have never seen you do anything else.  Neither as “A Christian” or as “anti-crowley”.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You may have a point.  Biblical “scholars” often disagree on the timing of different writings.  The gospel of Mark, for example, has been places as anywhere from 42 CE to 110 CE.  From a historical perspective 60 or 70 years isn’t much, but from a practical perspective it’s quite a lot.

    How reliable would an account of the battle of Guadalcanal be if written today by someone who had never been there, read any accounts of it, nor had spoken to anyone who had been there?  

  • Anonymous

    Hey Vox, i realise i owe you now 2 solid replies (i didn’t forget!)

    so here goes:

    Firstly let me thank you for your GREAT post on alternet regarding DADT. I realise i may have positioned myself as disregarding/offending those who perform military service- and that is not my position. My position on the subject is simply that i am anti-imperialist and of course anti-capitalist, and thus positioned to be very critical of wars of occupation/resources. I realise it is a complex subject, but i realise we agree on that complexity (particularly regarding DADT)-if of course i am reading your reply correctly? Obviously i am not against repeal- but neither do i believe (in fact quite the opposite as u can tell) that repeal is merely another co option of queer rights into the aforementioned wars and thus culture of dysfunction (to put it mildly). I hope my alternet post didn’t offend you, or anyone whom has had a military background (or adjacent family) it was reactionary to posts which glorified or grossly overstated repeal’s progressive nature. I appreciate the time you took to write me a reply.

    Onto gnosticism,

    I also find the shift of language from translation VERY interesting, and the emphasis and connotation placed on certain words (i.e. “abomination”) to be cultural or figurative rather than literal.
    I think in the gnostic texts there appears a very diverse and multi-faceted approach to x’tianity which at the same time is both very accessible and yet esoteric/occult. Both of these aspects i find fascinating.
    Gnostic/heretical texts complete the canon of x’tian mythology- to ignore those is akin to ignoring cromwell within the history of england. so illogical. but again what seems like a contemporary (born again) problem is historical and dates back (as you said above) to the early councils which decided the texts included in the modern bible.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Anyone that believes the bible is the literal anything has clearly rejected truth and rational thinking.  If the allowed them selves to even ask some simple human questions, they would understand that it cannot be taken literally or believed at all.

    For example:

    Could there ever have been errors in translation, accidental or deliberate?

    Could there ever have been editing that was politically motivated or done to promote a particular religious agenda?

    Why are there so many contradictions?

    Why are so many passages demanding murder and violence?

    Should I really kill my child if he speaks disrespectfully to me?

    Should a woman discovered not to be a virgin on her wedding night be stoned to death?

    Why is there no contemporary account of any jesus?  Why is the first account, the gospel of Mark written decades after the alleged events?

    Those are just a few questions no christian wants to ask, much less answer.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

    Anyone that believes the bible is the literal anything has clearly rejected truth and rational thinking.  If the allowed them selves to even ask some simple human questions, they would understand that it cannot be taken literally or believed at all.

    For example:

    Could there ever have been errors in translation, accidental or deliberate?

    Could there ever have been editing that was politically motivated or done to promote a particular religious agenda?

    Why are there so many contradictions?

    Why are so many passages demanding murder and violence?

    Should I really kill my child if he speaks disrespectfully to me?

    Should a woman discovered not to be a virgin on her wedding night be stoned to death?

    Why is there no contemporary account of any jesus?  Why is the first account, the gospel of Mark written decades after the alleged events?

    Those are just a few questions no christian wants to ask, much less answer.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    If you typed “I’m a lying idiot” before every post that would be at least one honest thing you have said.  

    Many times I have asked you for proof that anything you have said is correct.  Either that or proof than anything I have said is not correct.  So far, you have given neither.  Mostly you avoid and ignore those things.  I doubt that many on here wonder why you do that.  we all know you have no proof and are a liar, hypocrite, and fool.  Those are not insults, they are statements of observed facts based upon your own posts.  Prove any of it is not true.  For that matter prove anything you have posted is true.

  • Mulderoe

    Mr. Jimmy,
    I just wanted to thank you for showing everyone here what a real troll looks like.  God bless.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You bumbling moron, you are the only real troll on here.  You’re still a coward, intellectually, ethically, and physically.

    When are you ever going to answer even one legitimate question?  When are you going to stop telling lies? When do you want to come to Brazil?  I will be overjoyed to pay your way here and see how you talk when your skin is in the game.  

    I can prove everything I say.  You never prove anything.  Why are you so content with being a miserable example of the human race?  Do you get some sort of perverse thrill from being shown up as a total fool every time you post?

    Come on down, let me teach you some manners and give you a life changing experience.  You are an excellent example of why so many people hate christians.  You invite contempt, derision, and disgust.  Then you whine and complain when you receive what you earned.  

    You call me Jimmy to show your disrespect and arrogance.  That’s typical of your kind of christian, you never miss an opportunity to demonstrate your contempt for other people.  My christian friends are horrified with your posts.  If you were not such a coward, you send me your contact information so you could hear directly from them.  But we both know you are too much of a miserable little weakling to do anything honorable like that.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    “God bless”? More arrogant nonsense from you.  Show me proof of any god.  Just once, do the decent thing and try to answer a simple question.  Where is your proof of any god, your jesus, or even one word you have posted?    No, run and hide, you silly little man.  That’s all you can do.

  • Anonymous

    It is very Holy Book of Christian .I like it book. In this Book we have been teaches good thought by the Bible for Fresh Mind and Peace in Minds after the Listen the Story of Bible.
    http://learnhub.com/users/opadiran

  • Miodragsmith

    It is very Holy Book of Christian .I like it book. In this Book we have been teaches good thought by the Bible for Fresh Mind and Peace in Minds after the Listen the Story of Bible.
    http://learnhub.com/users/opadiran

  • Tomwe

    I am not of the particular religion that this passage comes from being a secular humanist, but I think it would be wise for all “people of faith” to abide by:
    “Say all you unbelievers!  I worship not that which ye worship, and ye do not worship what I worship; I shall never worship that which ye worship, neither will ye worship that which I worship.  To you be your religion; to me my religion.”  – Sura CIX

  • Tomwe

    I am not of the particular religion that this passage comes from being a secular humanist, but I think it would be wise for all “people of faith” to abide by:
    “Say all you unbelievers!  I worship not that which ye worship, and ye do not worship what I worship; I shall never worship that which ye worship, neither will ye worship that which I worship.  To you be your religion; to me my religion.”  – Sura CIX

  • burkanuck

    If you are too Biblically illiterate to know that God created from Sunday to Friday and rested on Saturday/Sabbath then your comments are completely fallacious (you could say retarded).
    Actually moron is probably more accurate.

  • burkanuck

    “I have known many christians who take the descriptions in Revelations and everything else in the bible to be nothing but fact and as the literal word of god.”

    Clearly you are the “liar” here.
    I don’t know a single Christian, and I know thousands of Christians, who takes the clearly symbolic images in Revelation literally. In fact, almost all Christians adhere to the idea that in prophetic books you takes things symbolically unless they are clearly literal, in the rest of the Bible you take things literally unless they are clearly symbolic. Of course you wouldn’t know that.
    Anyone who makes the ridiculous claim that they have “known many Christians who take the descriptions in Revelations (sic)” literally is “literally” full of it.

  • burkanuck

    Wow, you sure are an bitter, ignorant, uninformed, miserable old man. But, hey, I respect your right to be all of those things.
    Isn’t that nice of me?

  • burkanuck

    Wow, you sure are an bitter, ignorant, uninformed, miserable old man. But, hey, I respect your right to be all of those things.
    Isn’t that nice of me?

  • burkanuck

    What a demonstrably false bunch of garbage!

    Why don’t you tell us, Mr. atheist, what “religion” started WWI? What “religion” started WWII and led atheist Hitler to cause the deaths of 15,000,000? What “religion” led atheistcommunist Stalin to starve 30,000,000 of his own citizens? What “religion” led atheist/communist Mao to murder 20,000,000 of his citizens?

    The 20th century was the bloodiest century in the history of mankind. More people died at the hands of atheist pieces of garbage, like you, than had died in all previous conflicts in history.

    Of course it didn’t have anything to do with their Darwinian “survival of the fittest” views did it?

    Of course for anyonee with a functioning braincell it is quite obvious that the problem isn’t “religion” OR “atheism”, it is human nature. The common denominator isn’t any single religion, philosophy or worldview, the common denominator is PEOPLE!

    You are such an ignorant, uninformed fool. talk about engaging in “willful stupidity”. You are the epitome of that description you crazy, obnoxious old man.

  • burkanuck

    Jesus never existed? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! WOW! Just when I thought you couldn’t demonstrate a deeper level of ignorance you prove me wrong, and believe me, after some of the things you’ve already posted that was a pretty tall order. Nicely done.

     You can choose to argue that Jesus wasn’t God but to suggest He never existed is so utterly stupid I can’t believe you would even make such an idiotic claim.

    Oh wait…no I’m not.

  • Hermolaossmith

    Bible is so very Philosopher  about the Speeches for the Truth and Honest.
    http://www.foodbuzz.com/foodies/profile/gwrtheyrnsmith

  • Anonymous

    Bible is so very Philosopher  about the Speeches for the Truth and Honest.
    http://www.foodbuzz.com/foodies/profile/gwrtheyrnsmith

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    As with most people you despise anyone that tells the truth when it disagrees with any of your favorite delusions.

    I have known many christians as I grew up in the midwestern and southern USA.  PLenty of them told me directly that “The bible is the literal word of god.”  You can choose not to believe that, just as you can choose to remain ignorant and believe any ridiculous thing you want.  

    I do not lie and you are a fool for believing that there are few christians who believe the is all fact.  Perhaps you are so uninformed you have never heard of the creationist nonsense.  Perhaps you have never listened to politicians pandering to the religious reich or never heard any evangelistic preacher pounding the pulpit and threatening hell and damnation to any who do not believe as he demands.  Then, maybe you just choose to ignore even the most obvious facts.  All of that is your problem.

    I am truthful and you are either a liar, fool, or willfully ignorant.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    No, you are being sarcastic.  What you are is a deeply stupid, determinedly ignorant liar.  I can lead a fool to knowledge but no one can make him think.

    Wasn’t that truthful of me.  I recommend it to you.  

    BTW, how can I be miserable when I live a comfortable life in one of the best climate in the world, have many friends and relatives and morons like you to entertain me?  

    Maybe you would benefit by looking at some of the videos I have on http://www.vimeo.com, (search on slrman in the box at the top right of the main page) and see how happy, healthy, and vigorous I am.    Again, that would kick the legs from under some of your cherished illusions as the truth so often does.   For your own peace of mind, maybe you shouldn’t look.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You never miss a chance to demonstrate your ignorance do you?  First, I did not say that religion caused All of the problems of the world, just most of them.  I even gave irrefutable examples, that you choose to ignore so you could rant on with your own uninformed nonsense.

    Next, Hitler was not an atheist, but a devout catholic.  

    Stalin and Mao didn’t commit their atrocities from atheist views but because they were dictators and determined to eliminate anyone they regarded as a threat to their power.  

    Atheists do not kill people because of their religion.  One religion does that to another.  History has demonstrated that many times.

    You are a total moron that disregards facts whenever it suits your foolish purposes.  I challenge you to prove that even one word I have posted is not true.  For that matter, prove anything you have said is true.

    Like everything else, you’ll ignore this, too.  I repeat, you are a liar, a fool, and a hypocrite.

    I’ve attached an image that disproves your amazingly ignorant statement about Hitler.  But maybe it wasn’t ignorant but just a common theist lie?  You lie so much, it’s difficult to determine when you are lying or simply be ignorant.  I’ll gibe you the benefit of a doubt.  As Albert Einstein said, “Do not attribute evil intent to that which can be accounted for by simple stupidity.”  Did he know you?  I would not be surprised.

    Yes, facts have handed you your intellectual ass again.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    As usual, you ignore verifiable facts to remain deep in your delusions.

    INstead of doing nothing but demonstrating more of your own stupidity, why don’t you disprove some of what I said?  LIke “There isn’t one contemporary account of any jesus.”  Or, “The first account is in the gospel of Mark, written from 40 to 110 years after the alleged events.”  

    Instead you choose to ignore those and show your own ignorance and fear of facts yet again.  How about instead of being an intellectual and ethical coward, you present some coherent arguments with verifiable evidence of your own?  Don’t have any?  Then it’s better to quietly slink away instead of looking increasingly stupid while hiding behind a fake ID.  I show my real name, location, and picture.  When you are honest and unafraid to give proof of your statements, you can do that.  When you’re ashamed of what you say, you need to hide yourself.  In your case, rightly so.

    As an example, here’s my very building.  I’m in # 401.  But, always telling the truth, I have nothing to hide.  That’s very unlike you.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    As usual, you ignore verifiable facts to remain deep in your delusions.

    INstead of doing nothing but demonstrating more of your own stupidity, why don’t you disprove some of what I said?  LIke “There isn’t one contemporary account of any jesus.”  Or, “The first account is in the gospel of Mark, written from 40 to 110 years after the alleged events.”  

    Instead you choose to ignore those and show your own ignorance and fear of facts yet again.  How about instead of being an intellectual and ethical coward, you present some coherent arguments with verifiable evidence of your own?  Don’t have any?  Then it’s better to quietly slink away instead of looking increasingly stupid while hiding behind a fake ID.  I show my real name, location, and picture.  When you are honest and unafraid to give proof of your statements, you can do that.  When you’re ashamed of what you say, you need to hide yourself.  In your case, rightly so.

    As an example, here’s my very building.  I’m in # 401.  But, always telling the truth, I have nothing to hide.  That’s very unlike you.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I see that you have slunk away in abject horror at having been thoroughly bested, intellectually, ethically, and in terms of physical courage.  Despite being requested to do so, you have not given proof of anything you have posted.  Nor have you attempted to disprove anything I have said.  

    You have consistently engaged in lying, evasions, denials, and distractions.  But when asked for proof — poof!  You’re gone.  Thanks for proving my points about you and the lack of character and intelligence you have demonstrated.  That’s a very nice way of witnessing for your faith.  (Sarcasm icon needed)

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    So you are taking the bible literally.  Yet, you said you didn’t know any christians that did.  Oops!  Caught you in another lie.  Well, that was no great feat, was it?  

    Here’s a little image that shows how christianity was founded by copying earlier myths.  A religion founded upon lies would naturally attract more liars.  

    Hey, we’re all still waiting for you to show some proof of anything other than your own insistence upon ignorance.

  • Ann MacKenzie

    God left us one commandment. “Love one another.” 

    It’s a simple thing, but incredibly hard for many people to do so! 

    • http://slrman.wordpress.com/ James Smith

      Exactly where does it say that?  Not in the ten commandments.  Not when he destroyed the world with a great flood.  Not when he commanded genocide “that not one stone should stand upon another”, or to kill babies by smashing their heads upon stones, or passages such as Matthew 10:34: “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

      Exactly  Yes, it’s true that not many people “love one another” especially christians who have a long record of intolerance, hate and violence.  Violence agains gays, blacks, women, other religions, atheists, and even other christians who believe a slightly different theology. Consider the inquisition, witch burnings, gay bashing, family planning clinic bombings, lynchings, and midnight cross burnings.  

      Maybe all of that is what is meant by, “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

  • Ann MacKenzie

    God left us one commandment. “Love one another.” 

    It’s a simple thing, but incredibly hard for many people to do so! 

  • A Christian

    List of fallacies in logical discourse attributed to Jimmy “Straw man” Smith:
    Oversimplification
    Poisoning the well
    Slippery slope
    Appeal to ignorance
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc 
    Non sequitur
    False analogy
    Ad hominem

    May God grant you wisdom Mr Jimmy

    Love,
    A Christian

  • A Christian

    List of fallacies in logical discourse attributed to Jimmy “Straw man” Smith:
    Oversimplification
    Poisoning the well
    Slippery slope
    Appeal to ignorance
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc 
    Non sequitur
    False analogy
    Ad hominem

    May God grant you wisdom Mr Jimmy

    Love,
    A Christian

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    As always, you make assertion without a bit of proof.  But then, when you are a well-know liar, no one expects any proof.  

    May god damn you to the hell you so richly deserve .

    Again, I challenge you to prove one thing you have ever posted is true.  Prove one thing I have posted is not.  Every tome you ignore this challenge you demonstrate the truth of what I say and the falsity of what you say.  

    I despise liars, and deliberately stupid people.  This does mean you.  Come an meet me personally.  No?  That’s because you are a thoroughly disgusting example of a human being.  Why are you so determined to be a liar, a coward and a total asshole?  Is this your idea of being a christian?   You should not be surprised that so many view you with contempt and derision.  It is all you have earned with your displays of ignorance and cowardly avoiding intellectual honesty and ethical behavior.

  • Word Eater

    The bible does say that a child may have to go against his or her parents’ wishes to be a Christian; I guess it works the other way, too.

  • Word Eater

    When I was a kid / teenager, my friends and I made up a religion called The First Reformed Church of Bob (sort of).  The (sort of) was part of the name.  We had only barely heard of the Cult of the Subgenius at the time.  The religion was based on something we got from a Ouija board.
    It ended up being a bit like Mormonism in that, if you did a good job here, you got a planet to rule after you died.  It also had reincarnation if you didn’t do that well and allowed polygamy and polyandry.
    We worked on that for almost 4 years and it was awesome (mainly because I was the High Priest).
    We made it up and well believed it and it wasn’t weird or stupid to us at the time.
    Too bad we didn’t stick with it or write a book about it.  Maybe I could have been like L. Ron Hubbard.

  • Word Eater

    You know something, James?  I like what you say, but I hate the way you say it.

    You act like everyone is attacking you all the time and that you are the only one who can save the whole stupid world if they’ll only shut up long enough to listen to your humanistic wisdom.  And you’ll scream and yell and keep on going and going until everybody else does shut up.  Even after everyone else has gone home, you’ll be there getting in the last word because that is all that matters.  The last person to express their opinion, even if it is the same opinion he or she has been expressing for days or years, is obviously the one who “wins.”

    Seriously, grow up.

    You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by repeating the same things over and over again.

    Neither is anti-crowley / a christian.

    But at least he isn’t a foaming asshole about it.  I guess you find smugness worse than raging emotion, and it shows.

    And for the record, I would never come to Brazil because it costs too much.  If you visited the town I live in, I still wouldn’t meet you face to face because I am a pussy and hate confrontation.  I’m a middle-aged white guy and I am afraid of getting punched (or even just yelled at) by an old man.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Thanks for that input.  I admit I don;t recall that being in the bible.  I do remember the part that says if a child curses their parent or defies them that child should be killed, by stoning, I think.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    It seems that somehow, probably through no fault of your own, you have received the impression that I care what you think.  If it was from something I said, I do apologize.  It was never my intention to give you that impression.

    You think that someone like “A Christian/Anti-crowley is not working to deliberately provoke me and others?  You must not have read any of his posts.  He is upset because I consistently tell the truth and even worse, the truth about him.  

    I know there is not possibility of altering any part of that feeble mind.  You cannot reason any person away from a position that they did not reach through reason.  My only intention is to point out the lies told, the intellectual, ethical, and physical shortcomings of people like that by always using independently verifiable facts.  As I have said here and elsewhere, people hate you when you tell the truth, especially if that truth destroys one of their cherished illusions.  

    I really could not care less what anyone thinks or says.  I will keep my integrity and honesty.  That alone puts me far ahead of A Christian (which I doubt) and others of his kind.

    FYI, one of the most insulting things you can say to anyone is “grow up”.  It defines an arrogant belief that you are superior to them.  It also implies that you don;t have to prove it, the statement should be taken as is and accepted as the truth.

    So seriously, start thinking rationally and read what you write before you click “Post”.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Exactly where does it say that?  Not in the ten commandments.  Not when he destroyed the world with a great flood.  Not when he commanded genocide “that not one stone should stand upon another”, or to kill babies by smashing their heads upon stones, or passages such as Matthew 10:34: “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

    Exactly  Yes, it’s true that not many people “love one another” especially christians who have a long record of intolerance, hate and violence.  Violence agains gays, blacks, women, other religions, atheists, and even other christians who believe a slightly different theology. Consider the inquisition, witch burnings, gay bashing, family planning clinic bombings, lynchings, and midnight cross burnings.  

    Maybe all of that is what is meant by, “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

  • Age of reason

    Present your verifiable fact for something from nothing, ready….go.   Give your verifiable fact for any claim to what is good and evil, ready….go.  Give one verifiable fact for the homosapien transitional species, ready…oh why bother you are no different then the accusations you vomit onto this forum.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    There are many thousands of pieces of evidence including transitional fossils of many species, including homo sapiens. They are in museums, laboratories, and universities all over the world.  

    You are just another idiot that refuses to believe established facts.  You are no different that the rest of the abysmally ignorant religious reich.  I “vomit” truth.  That with free speech and rational thinking is something no religion can tolerate.  You abhor it yourself because it shows how ridiculous your beliefs are.

  • Anti-crowley

    There are many thousands of pieces of evidence including God, including Jesus. They are in museums,
    laboratories, and universities all over the world.  

    You are just
    another idiot that refuses to believe established facts.  You are no
    different that the rest of the abysmally ignorant evolutionary reich.  I
    “vomit” truth.  That with free speech and rational thinking is something
    no atheist can tolerate.  You abhor it yourself because it shows how
    ridiculous your beliefs are.

    How does this baseless claim look from the other side old man.

  • A Christain

    Please site me the numbers killed in the bombing of the clinic over a decade ago.  I will then site you the numbers killed by Pol Pot and Joseph Stalin in the name of Eugenics.  If you really want to bring up stuff like the Crusades and nonsense from thousands of years ago then all is fair right Jim?  Just take your blood pressure meds and remember that most of the pricks you mention were in violation of what Jesus taught and he warned of those who would falsely come in his name and deceive many. 

    I think you have plenty of time for me to wast you Expatriot…I capitalized the “Ex” for a reason.

  • A Christain

    Please site me the numbers killed in the bombing of the clinic over a decade ago.  I will then site you the numbers killed by Pol Pot and Joseph Stalin in the name of Eugenics.  If you really want to bring up stuff like the Crusades and nonsense from thousands of years ago then all is fair right Jim?  Just take your blood pressure meds and remember that most of the pricks you mention were in violation of what Jesus taught and he warned of those who would falsely come in his name and deceive many. 

    I think you have plenty of time for me to wast you Expatriot…I capitalized the “Ex” for a reason.

  • A Christian

     BTW Jimmy, I don’t have a DD214 because I am still in.  I went to Marine recruit depot San Diego 1999 and was stationed in 29 Palms CA in the Scout sniper Plt for 5 years to include a deployment to Operation Iraqi Freedom 1.  I then worked at the Camp Pendleton CA Scout Sniper Basic Course for a  couple years and  moved over to the newly established Marine Special Operations Command from which my job is none of your damn business Ex patriot.  My address is currently 1235G Camp Courtney Okinawa Japan you former American.  Come and visit if you have the “balls” that you mentioned earlier.  I was not joking when I mentioned the training I have spent the last 12 years dedicating myself to.

  • A Christian

    Clever Wolf, but what of your world view?

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    It feels like you are still far too stupid to think of anything yourself.  

    It seems you are far too much on a mental and moral coward to ever answer a direct, simple question or to furnish proof of anything you claim.  

    Every post you make shows this and makes it apparent to all what a total asshole you are determined to be.  To give you credit, you do succeed in that very well.  

    RAtional thinking is as far beyond your capabilities as breathing liquid hydrogen is beyond mine.  

    One thing you forget, this “old man” is in far better physical condition today than you were in the best day of your life.  Maybe you haven’t forgotten and that’s why you ignore my offer to fly you from the sewer where you hide to where I am.

    You must still be avoiding looking at the videos I recommended to you.  Otherwise, even you wouldn’t make so many appallingly asinine statements.

    Any time you think you’re ready piss ant, the offer is on the table.  We both know you’ll never do it.  Anyone reading this knows you’ll never do it.  The hummingbirds on my veranda know it.  If you watch the video, you can hear them laughing among themselves about it.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You are telling more lies.  If you were still in, you would have easily produceable proof.  Nor would you be in China teaching English as you claimed.  Then you also claimed you were in Canada.  

    You are a goddamned liar.  You can’t even keep the lies straight.  Accept my offer and I’ll fly you here and you’ll se who has the training.  I’ll beat you into a ball of whimpering blood and broken bones.  Try me, asshole, I will love it.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You are telling more lies.  If you were still in, you would have easily produceable proof.  Nor would you be in China teaching English as you claimed.  Then you also claimed you were in Canada.  

    You are a goddamned liar.  You can’t even keep the lies straight.  Accept my offer and I’ll fly you here and you’ll se who has the training.  I’ll beat you into a ball of whimpering blood and broken bones.  Try me, asshole, I will love it.  

  • A Christian

    I didn’t watch your video as I have seen enough Al Jeezera to know that people like you are thugs and murderers which have so far been no problem for me.  Use that money to fly to me as I don’t waste my time on Expats who don’t have the balls to stay and fight to fix our country but instead flee most likely due to criminal investigation.  Interpol will find you Jimmy and you are leaving a good electronic link in this site for them to do so.  If you feel your life is no longer worth it, come and threaten me and I will take a few seconds to defend myself.  Don’t forget my address and I am home almost every weekend.  If you take the 329 once you get off the expressway from the airport it will save you a couple bucks.  Get off of exit 3 and go straight through the stoplight once you do so.  I am calling your bluff, we will see if you really have the balls you claim to have or if you are an empty suit as I predict…old man.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    @Jin_TheNinja:disqus  A Christian   Apparently your last post didn’t appear here even though I have it in my email.  So I’ll do you a favor and reproduce it for you with a point-by-point reply.  Heh Heh
    “I didn’t watch your video as I have seen enough Al Jeezera to know that people like you are thugs and murderers which have so far been no problem for me.  Use that money to fly to me as I don’t waste my time on Expats who don’t have the balls to stay and fight to fix our country but instead flee most likely due to criminal investigation.  Interpol will find you Jimmy and you are leaving a good electronic link in this site for them to do so.  If you feel your life is no longer worth it, come and threaten me and I will take a few seconds to defend myself.  Don’t forget my address and I am home almost every weekend.  If you take the 329 once you get off the expressway from the airport it will save you a couple bucks.  Get off of exit 3 and go straight through the stoplight once you do so.  I am calling your bluff, we will see if you really have the balls you claim to have or if you are an empty suit as I predict…old man.”

    Of course you wouldn’t watch my videos because you are terrified of what you might see.  I have no connection with Al Jeezera and I am not a thug or a murderer.  Although you may cause me to rethink the latter.  :)

    How can I use the money to fly to you when you have lied about where you are.  First you say you are in Canada, then you say you are in China, teaching English (what a laugh that is!) and now you claim to be in the US Marine Corps in Okinawa.  Then you might wonder why I say you are a liar.  But then, you have never bothered to deny that, so maybe it’s a tacit admission that it is true?

    FYI, I have fought for my country and still do so.  That’s a lot more than a disgrace to his religion, country, and humanity like you can say.  

    A quick examination of your next lie will demonstrate how pathetically silly it is.  If I were fleeing from criminal investigation would I be such an obvious presence on the internet, using my real name and location?  I’m not hiding behind a ludicrous name and constantly giving false information as you do.  

    As for Interpol, you clearly know nothing about it.  It does not hunt down criminals.  It is an international information-sharing organization only.  It doesn’t arrest anyone, or even search for anyone.  Here’s a bit about them taken from their own web site:

    “INTERPOL is the world’s largest international police organization, with 188 member countries. Our role is to enable police around the world to work together to make the world a safer place. Our high-tech infrastructure of technical and operational support helps meet the growing challenges of fighting crime in the 21st century.”

    As you can see, it says only it is an inter-agency cooperative to allow police to work together more effectively.  But what’s another piece of misinformation from you?

    For the record, I came here to captain a large sailing vessel for a businessman here.  I like the climate (best in the world), the people, and the country.  The boat was eventually sold and I have stayed on, living in a luxury building.    You can see a bit of my town here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNKoxo7LW8  Nicer than even Canada, isn’t it?  BTW, I lived in Quebec so I have a bit of experience there, too.  You have probably never been to any part of Canada despite your claim of living there.  But, when you lie constantly, how can anyone believe anything you say?

    You threatened my life.  So that means I am now legally justified to use any means I deem necessary to protect myself.  That means I can damage you as much as I please.  FYI, my favorite places to break are joints.  Shoulders, elbows, wrists, knees, etc.  The last time someone attacked my physically, it took me perhaps five seconds to destroy his face and one leg.  You will be no different unless you decide to run.  But wait, you’re already running by lying about your location.  You have no intention of ever being on the same continent with me.

    You’re home almost every weekend?  Home from China to Canada or Okinawa?  Oops, forgot about those lies didn’t you?

    I have called your bluff many times and offered to pay your way from your shitpit to where I am.  If you were not such an ethical coward, you’d make me the same offer and fly me to where you are.  I know perfectly well that, even if you ever had the honesty to give me a genuine address, you would never be there when I arrived.  

    My offer is still good.  I will pay your way, and even meet you at the airport or give you explicit instructions on taking a taxi to where I am.  I’ll even provide detailed instructions on obtaining Brazilian cash to pay for the Taxi. You won’t need much after we meet, you won;t need any at all.

    You are a liar, a coward, and a complete fool.  I have handed you your ass every time. You have never so much as tried to prove me wrong on anything or deny that you are a liar, but my evidence has been so plain, even you are not stupid enough to try to worm out of it.  You can only ignore it and hope everyone forgets.  I do not forget, nor forgive.  You try to talk tough, but decline to show any proof of anything.  Not your face, your name, you military record, nothing.  What a pitiful excuse for a person you are.  I do wish you were not such a coward and would actually meet me.  But if you were not, perhaps we would not be having this adversarial relationship.  As it is, nothing would please me as much as facing you down.  Prove your location, Prove any damn thing, you pathetic, pathological liar and coward.  Come and act like a man for just once in your life.  Prove where you really are.  You think I won’t come?  You will be as wrong about that as you have been everything else.

    Come and get it, yellow-belly.  Don’t let the picture scare you.  That was almost 30 years ago.  Now, I don;t kick as high.  But I am still way better than you have ever been on the best day of your life.  If you have looked at my other videos as I suggested, you already know that.  Maybe that’s why you’re to terrified?

    As you see, it allows law-enforcement t

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    @Jin_TheNinja:disqus   A Christian   Apparently your last post didn’t appear here even though I have it in my email.  So I’ll do you a favor and reproduce it for you with a point-by-point reply.  Heh Heh”I didn’t watch your video as I have seen enough Al Jeezera to know that people like you are thugs and murderers which have so far been no problem for me.  Use that money to fly to me as I don’t waste my time on Expats who don’t have the balls to stay and fight to fix our country but instead flee most likely due to criminal investigation.  Interpol will find you Jimmy and you are leaving a good electronic link in this site for them to do so.  If you feel your life is no longer worth it, come and threaten me and I will take a few seconds to defend myself.  Don’t forget my address and I am home almost every weekend.  If you take the 329 once you get off the expressway from the airport it will save you a couple bucks.  Get off of exit 3 and go straight through the stoplight once you do so.  I am calling your bluff, we will see if you really have the balls you claim to have or if you are an empty suit as I predict…old man.”Of course you wouldn’t watch my videos because you are terrified of what you might see.  I have no connection with Al Jeezera and I am not a thug or a murderer.  Although you may cause me to rethink the latter.  :)How can I use the money to fly to you when you have lied about where you are.  First you say you are in Canada, then you say you are in China, teaching English (what a laugh that is!) and now you claim to be in the US Marine Corps in Okinawa.  Then you might wonder why I say you are a liar.  But then, you have never bothered to deny that, so maybe it’s a tacit admission that it is true?FYI, I have fought for my country and still do so.  That’s a lot more than a disgrace to his religion, country, and humanity like you can say.  A quick examination of your next lie will demonstrate how pathetically silly it is.  If I were fleeing from criminal investigation would I be such an obvious presence on the internet, using my real name and location?  I’m not hiding behind a ludicrous name and constantly giving false information as you do.  As for Interpol, you clearly know nothing about it.  It does not hunt down criminals.  It is an international information-sharing organization only.  It doesn’t arrest anyone, or even search for anyone.  Here’s a bit about them taken from their own web site:”INTERPOL is the world’s largest international police organization, with 188 member countries. Our role is to enable police around the world to work together to make the world a safer place. Our high-tech infrastructure of technical and operational support helps meet the growing challenges of fighting crime in the 21st century.”As you can see, it says only it is an inter-agency cooperative to allow police to work together more effectively.  But what’s another piece of misinformation from you?For the record, I came here to captain a large sailing vessel for a businessman here.  I like the climate (best in the world), the people, and the country.  The boat was eventually sold and I have stayed on, living in a luxury building.    You can see a bit of my town here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…  Nicer than even Canada, isn’t it?  BTW, I lived in Quebec so I have a bit of experience there, too.  You have probably never been to any part of Canada despite your claim of living there.  But, when you lie constantly, how can anyone believe anything you say?You threatened my life.  So that means I am now legally justified to use any means I deem necessary to protect myself.  That means I can damage you as much as I please.  FYI, my favorite places to break are joints.  Shoulders, elbows, wrists, knees, etc.  The last time someone attacked my physically, it took me perhaps five seconds to destroy his face and one leg.  You will be no different unless you decide to run.  But wait, you’re already running by lying about your location.  You have no intention of ever being on the same continent with me.You’re home almost every weekend?  Home from China to Canada or Okinawa?  Oops, forgot about those lies didn’t you?I have called your bluff many times and offered to pay your way from your shitpit to where I am.  If you were not such an ethical coward, you’d make me the same offer and fly me to where you are.  I know perfectly well that, even if you ever had the honesty to give me a genuine address, you would never be there when I arrived.  My offer is still good.  I will pay your way, and even meet you at the airport or give you explicit instructions on taking a taxi to where I am.  I’ll even provide detailed instructions on obtaining Brazilian cash to pay for the Taxi. You won’t need much after we meet, you won;t need any at all.You are a liar, a coward, and a complete fool.  I have handed you your ass every time. You have never so much as tried to prove me wrong on anything or deny that you are a liar, but my evidence has been so plain, even you are not stupid enough to try to worm out of it.  You can only ignore it and hope everyone forgets.  I do not forget, nor forgive.  You try to talk tough, but decline to show any proof of anything.  Not your face, your name, you military record, nothing.  What a pitiful excuse for a person you are.  I do wish you were not such a coward and would actually meet me.  But if you were not, perhaps we would not be having this adversarial relationship.  As it is, nothing would please me as much as facing you down.  Prove your location, Prove any damn thing, you pathetic, pathological liar and coward.  Come and act like a man for just once in your life.  Prove where you really are.  You think I won’t come?  You will be as wrong about that as you have been everything else.Come and get it, yellow-belly.  Don’t let the picture scare you.  That was almost 30 years ago.  Now, I don’t kick as high.  But I am still way better than you have ever been on the best day of your life.  If you have looked at my other videos as I suggested, you already know that.  Maybe that’s why you’re so terrified?

  • Anonymous

    I like Bible thought for give the speeches to the man for face and hardwork any Difficult and struggle.
    http://couponsfolder.com/store/overstock-promo-code-overstock-coupon-code-overstock-coupons/

  • Anti-Crowley

    Not sure where you get this Canada business, but whatever.  I’m here in Okinawa, joints and all.  Still waiting.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    You are a lying bastard.  You said in an earlier post “here in Canada”  Then you also said you were in China, teaching English”.  You lie so much, you can’t keep them straight yourself.  

    You didn’t even give me a complete address in Okinawa.  You area pathological liar.  Give me proof that you are really there.  Or accept my offer of a ticket from your sewer home to where I live.  Or, do the ethical thing and match my offer.  I know perfectly well that, even if you gave me a genuine address and I paid my own way there, you would arrange to not be around when I arrived.  Or you would have so many people to defend you that you would never have to confront me personally.  

    If you were genuinely ethical, you’d just admit your a a lying piece of shit and slink away like the rat bastard you are.  f you ever dace me personally, it will be the worst day of your life and you will spend the rest of your life wishing you had either STFU or that OI had killed you instead of maiming you forever.

    Do the right thing for once in your life.  Aren’t you getting tired of hiding and being shown to be a coward, a fool, and a hypocrite?

    Let’s take a poll on here.  How many think you have any intention of ever coming within 1,000 miles of me? 

    How many think I would happily confront you, even if I have to pay your way here?  

    How many think you are terrified of ever meeting me?

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Where are you really?  One time you say Canada, then China, now Okinawa.  You have lied so much and so blatantly on here, no one knows what to believe.  Mostly, if you say it, our first thought should be that it isn’t true.

    Provide me with some genuine proof of where you are, I will test that address and, if you haven’t lied again, maybe we can arrange a real meeting.  I would like that very much.  A lot more than you will, for certain.  Any time you’re ready.  My original offer is still open, too.  I’ve provided you with proof of who and where I am.  So far, you haven’t provided proof of anything.  Well, yes, you have show indisputable evidence that you are an ostentatious prevaricator and a putrid piss ant craven coward.  

  • Jesus is Lord

    Maybe that is why christianity has stood the test of time for all these years and increases in number.  James you sir are a boob, and should do more research on subjects before you make ridiculous posts.

    “and the message of the cross is misunderstood by those who are perishing “

  • I have no life

    James is a typical example of a person that is entirely consumed by this subject in a negative way.  The over arching question is why does a man spend so much time and energy trying to argue against God.

    “and it you eat of it you will be like God”
     

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Christianity has not withstood the test of time at all.  It has been proven false, founded upon lies, a system of suppressing people intolerant and the single most evil scam worked upon humanity in all history.

    I have done far more research on religion in general and christianity in particular than you have.  If you really were anything but a gullible fool, you would have discarded this collection of myths, lies, and fairy tales long ago.  You sir, are a fool and hide behind a fake ID to spout nonsense to those who are far better qualified intellectually and ethically than you will ever be.

  • E.B. Wolf

    When it comes to religion, the little ditty above sums it up nicely.

    If I had to categorize myself, it would be as an Agnostic with strong atheistic leaning. I don’t care what people choose to believe until they organize politically to try and force their worldview and moral codes on me.

  • Anonymous

    Bible is the Holy Book of the Christian Community.Bible is always saying to the everyone to  Adopt the Truth thing not a false thing.
    http://overstockpromocode1.webs.com/

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    I don’t have to argue against god.  There is not god.  I do enjoy asking  theist fools to prove anything they say is true or to prove anything I say is not true.  Most are like you, they try to distract, deny, delay or evade the issue because they have no rational answers.  

    How about you make a reply that isn;t complete nonsense?  Show some proof for the existence of any god.  

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Let us all note that A Christian has never tried to deny my statement that he is a liar, and an intellectual, ethical, and physical coward.  He has never responded to my repeated request for proof of his location, Canada,China, or Okinawa.  Nor has he shown proof of his claim that he is in the US military or proof of any other claim he has made.

    Is it any wonder that I have a very low opinion of his credibility, intellect, or ethics?  It seems he has none of any of those.  He is good at hiding, running, and dissembling, though.

  • A Christian

    I deny your statement that I am a liar, coward blah blah blah.  Bulding 2821 Camp Hansen Okinawa is your best bet to find me during working hours.  Do you want me to send you a picture of it?  I have no doubt that what ever proof you require, you will still not fly out here.  Anyway, don’t forget your meds or you’ll have another episode Jimmy.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Yes, I demand proof.  You are hoping I will waste my time and money going where you are not and never have been.  Yes, if you can prove you are there, a military record and picture of you next to the post gate would do. Give me a mailing address and I’ll send you a letter.  When you can call me and read the letter to me, I’ll know you are ready for a surprise visit.   I will be there.  When I come there, You will be humiliated, painfully and quickly.  

    You have been caught is no many lies that you may deny them, but the truth is in your own posts.  For example, you said you were in Canada, then you said you were in China, now you say you are in Okinawa.  Those are in your own post on this site for anyone to see.  It takes genuinely stupid person to deny what can be so easily proved.  But stupid is your real name.

    Camp Hansen exists, I have heard of that.  BUilding 2821 doesn’t seem to be found, though.  For that matter, how can you be there when you are supposed to be in China, teaching English.  I see how you avoid answering that question as well as how you can also be in Canada.  You’re a liar and a coward,  You wouldn’t accept my free trip because then you know I will beat you into a putrid puddle of pus.  You craven SOB.   Tell the truth.  You also lie about being a christian.  You don’t behave the least bit like a christian is supposed to act.  But when I finish with you, maybe you will actually get religion.  For sure, you’ll pray you never have to face me again.  Come on, asshole, put some genuine verifiable proof for a change.  There is nothing in this world I would like as much as actually meeting you right now.  Just as there is nothing you fear so much as meeting me.I don’t need any meds,  Here’s what I do every day.  This isn’t all I do, but it’s far more than a wimp like you can do.  Look at it and tremble you lying moron.

    Also, here’s exact pictures of where I live, including the lat/long and a picture of my building.  I’m in # 401. I’ll pay your way, meet you at the airport, or you can take a taxi from directly in front of the airport.  Just tell the driver, Manaira (the neighborhood), Rua Santos Coelho Neto # 351.  Probably you should write it out as there’s no way you can speak Portuguese well enough to be understood.  My phone number is 55 83 8721 2630.  55 is the country code, 83 is the area code.  So what’s your excuse now, yellow-belly?   Oh, I forget, terror and you’re a liar.

  • http://slrman.wordpress.com James Smith

    Yes, I am still waiting for “A Christian” to show some proof of who he is, where he is, and what he is  That is, what he is besides a liar, coward, and hypocrite.  I have given him everything about me with maps, details, phone number, pictures, and videos.  So far, he has done nothing but lie and hide.

    What a despicable example he is of a christian and a human being.

    That ball is in your court, you sniveling little worm.  Or are you finally surrendering and, by default, admitting everything I have said about you is true?  If so, I accept your abject surrender and slovenly retreat.

    Yes, I am laughing at you.