Kalle Lasn: The Man Who Occupied Wall Street

Adbuster's Occupy Wall Street poster incorporating the 3D work of Arturo Di Modica titled "Charging Bull".

Adbuster's Occupy Wall Street poster incorporating the 3D work of Arturo Di Modica titled "Charging Bull".

Adbusters’ leader Kalle Lasn receives a lengthy profile in the New York Times:

Kalle Lasn, the longtime editor of the anticonsumerist magazine Adbusters, did not invent the anger that has been feeding the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations across the United States.

But he did brand it.

Last summer, as uprisings shook the Middle East and much of the world economy struggled, Mr. Lasn and several colleagues at the small magazine felt the moment was ripe to tap simmering frustration on the American political left.

On July 13, he and his colleagues created a new hash tag on Twitter: #OCCUPYWALLSTREET. They made a poster showing a ballerina dancing on the back of the muscular sculptured bull near Wall Street in Manhattan.

For some people they were just words and images. For Mr. Lasn, they were tools to begin remodeling the “mental environment,” to create a new “meme,” the term coined by the evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins for a kind of transcendent cultural message.

“There’s a number of ways to wage a meme war,” Mr. Lasn, whose name is pronounced KAL-luh LAS-en, said in an interview. “I believe that one of the most powerful things of all is aesthetics.”

Mr. Lasn, who helped found Adbusters in 1989, had spent much of his career skewering corporate America, creating “subvertising” campaigns like “Joe Chemo,” which deftly mocked the Joe Camel cigarette ads of the 1990s.

But the spread of the Occupy protests signals a substantial step up for the magazine and Mr. Lasn, who is 69. The protests, he hopes, will “somehow change the power balance and make the world into a much more grass-roots, bottom-up kind of a place rather than the top-down Wall Street mega-corporate-driven system we now have.”

“This,” he added, “is the kind of dream many Occupiers have.”…

[continues in the New York Times]

, ,

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Created or Co opted?  What of Anonymous?  No mention of them.  Also “branding” the movement by ensuring most people would be directed to the Adbusters (American Apparel of Politics, ie we taught ourselves as holier than though and charge way to much for our operation.) web-site rather than the general assemblies where the actual grass roots organizing was being done was anything but democratic.(sadly maybe that is the point of OWS, A controlled burn and corraling of political dissent into a controlled state, cue Michael Moore!)

     Adbusters has some decent content but like Mother Jones and Democracy Now basically add up to Controlled Opposition where no one is allowed to 1. Talk about the Evidence demanding a new 9/11 Investigation including Building 7.  2. Discuss the existence or Constitutionality of the Federal Reserve or the IRS.  3. Discuss the foundational support that Democracy Now receives from the Ford Foundation (CIA) and how this undercuts their ability to discuss the aforementioned topics, that and the cowardice of Amy Goodman on these issues and everyone on staff.  4. The evidence discrediting the fear mongering of AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) of which Adbusters along with DN is a Massive Cheerleader!Essentially I see them as presenting marxist perspectives for the pseudo intellectual hipster. They attack rampant consumerism while allowing in their own “spectrum of allowable opinion” and no one else’s.  I think their marketing and branding is directed at the mostly white privileged liberal arts student who is forming their ideas of the world and is susceptible to well packaged propaganda.  Also it matches their latest American Apparel outift and makes them feel equally less guilty for indulging their consumer fix by spending $40′s on a solid color tshirt….or a $9.00 magazine.  Cognitive dissonance as brand culture: Adbusters… 
    Hence the recent banning of “conspiracy theories” on their web-site as a way to conveniently sidestep the efforts of the scholars willing to investigate and address the evidence for State Crimes Against Humanity as well as anyone who dares mention Building7 let alone its recent occupation.http://theintelhub.com/2011/11/21/occupy-wall-street-website-bans-so-called-alex-jones-conspiracy-theories-makes-fun-of-ron-paul/Let me state categorically to pre empt the trolls and spammers on here, that just because I advocate the position of someone on a certain issues, does not imply that I support ALL of their positions or research.  This should go without saying but we all know the trolls will attack which way they can.  Alex Jone’s does talk about the Fed, does talk about 9/11 and false flag terrorism.  Therefore I will link to him.  I dont’ agree with all of what he has said or stated but I do support his willingness to discuss these issues as they are ignored almost entirely by mainstream media. 

  • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

    Created or Co opted?  What of Anonymous?  No mention of them.  Also “branding” the movement by ensuring most people would be directed to the Adbusters (American Apparel of Politics, ie we taught ourselves as holier than though and charge way to much for our operation.) web-site rather than the general assemblies where the actual grass roots organizing was being done was anything but democratic.(sadly maybe that is the point of OWS, A controlled burn and corraling of political dissent into a controlled state, cue Michael Moore!)

     Adbusters has some decent content but like Mother Jones and Democracy Now basically add up to Controlled Opposition where no one is allowed to 1. Talk about the Evidence demanding a new 9/11 Investigation including Building 7.  2. Discuss the existence or Constitutionality of the Federal Reserve or the IRS.  3. Discuss the foundational support that Democracy Now receives from the Ford Foundation (CIA) and how this undercuts their ability to discuss the aforementioned topics, that and the cowardice of Amy Goodman on these issues and everyone on staff.  4. The evidence discrediting the fear mongering of AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) of which Adbusters along with DN is a Massive Cheerleader!Essentially I see them as presenting marxist perspectives for the pseudo intellectual hipster. They attack rampant consumerism while allowing in their own “spectrum of allowable opinion” and no one else’s.  I think their marketing and branding is directed at the mostly white privileged liberal arts student who is forming their ideas of the world and is susceptible to well packaged propaganda.  Also it matches their latest American Apparel outift and makes them feel equally less guilty for indulging their consumer fix by spending $40′s on a solid color tshirt….or a $9.00 magazine.  Cognitive dissonance as brand culture: Adbusters… 
    Hence the recent banning of “conspiracy theories” on their web-site as a way to conveniently sidestep the efforts of the scholars willing to investigate and address the evidence for State Crimes Against Humanity as well as anyone who dares mention Building7 let alone its recent occupation.http://theintelhub.com/2011/11/21/occupy-wall-street-website-bans-so-called-alex-jones-conspiracy-theories-makes-fun-of-ron-paul/Let me state categorically to pre empt the trolls and spammers on here, that just because I advocate the position of someone on a certain issues, does not imply that I support ALL of their positions or research.  This should go without saying but we all know the trolls will attack which way they can.  Alex Jone’s does talk about the Fed, does talk about 9/11 and false flag terrorism.  Therefore I will link to him.  I dont’ agree with all of what he has said or stated but I do support his willingness to discuss these issues as they are ignored almost entirely by mainstream media. 

    • Jin The Ninja

      you’ve got to be f*cking kidding me.

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

        another “brilliant” and hollow utterance from Jin.  Sorry I pissed you off over Ron Paul but if you are gonna say something, well.. try to actually say something.  

        • Jin The Ninja

          Nice try Cameron, I gave you 2 long and substantial replies on a prior page to which you did not even respond.

          You completely co opted a post about Kalle Lasn, who is by many accounts a great thinker and activist and proponent of the new post left anarchism. Adbusters is not immune from critique, but at least make the critique legitmate but not in the vein of Alex Jones his ‘ the Left is EVIL’ rhetoric. I am sorry but that line of thought is … MENTALLY DEFFICIENT.

          books can be your friend if you read them.

          You disparage Amy Goodman and DN! which is THE progressive new outlet covering stories the (and btw the ford foundation funds DOZENS of documentaries every year) MSM doesn’t and that which Jones n Co can’t understand. They broke thery story about Ken Sarawiwa and Shell’s abuses in the Niger Delta- among hundreds (and i mean hundreds) of others. Now does that mean they do not have Neo-Liberal leaning guests on ? No- and they are not immune from criticisim either- but ford foundation funding does NOT denote a conspiracy since they have a hands off content approach that is widely documented by 3rd party sources.

          Any docu maker worth their salt applies for those grants.

          And then you procede to acknowledge Jones, who is the most intellectually disposable talking head the right has ever produced. And PS before you accuse me of being against 9-11 truth or whatever, actually I subscribe to several alterna theories on the subject; however i have equally as strong of problems with Alex Jones’ branding and co option of that line of thinking. He is not defensible. He is a misogynist, McCarthyist, anti intellectual, hyper nationalist, hysterical capitalist and exploiter and does not deserve your support.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            I didn’t respond to your previous post as you seem to have an issue with staying on a relevant topic and also leveling accusations not founded by my actual presentations.  So it becomes a cluster fuck rather than a conversation in trying to talk to you. If you can take a deep breath and proceed with one valid concept at a time I would be willing to discuss whatever you like.  By valid I mean regarding the previous posts I have made.  Also I didn’t “hijack” anything, I simply stated my opinion.  As you have done as well.  Why then do you feel the need to use such loaded phrases in discussion?  Why do you focus on Jones when I repeatedly stated that I dont’ agree with all of his beliefs or personality quirks.  Can you begin to understand why someone might not want to indulge you in a conversation as you have displayed your not actually listening to what I have said, an in a very immature manner presuming it’s interesting or amusing that you then proceed to venture out on imaginative tangents that neither resolve nor reflect anything I’ve actually said.

            Back to the point now that I have made it clear again by posting something you only have to scroll up a few posts to see exactly what I’m talking about.   ” let me state categorically to pre empt the trolls and spammers on here, that just because I advocate the position of someone on a certain issues, does not imply that I support ALL of their positions or research.  This should go without saying but we all know the trolls will attack which way they can.  Alex Jone’s does talk about the Fed, does talk about 9/11 and false flag terrorism.  Therefore I will link to him.  I dont’ agree with all of what he has said or stated but I do support his willingness to discuss these issues as they are ignored almost entirely by mainstream media. ”

            So you see you are wasting everyone’s time by interjecting into conversations with spurious and inflammatory rhetoric.

            Now as for the Ford Foundation and DN, I can tell I have struck a nerve with you here and hey I understand.  I too used to unflinchingly support DN as “THE progressive news outlet”.  I’ve met Amy on at least 2 occassions during her book tours and listened to a few hundred hours of DN as well.  So what I’m saying comes from a place of experience you ought to consider.  Now that being said why is it that DN is so unwilling to cover the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth?  Why won’t they present any of the evidence questioning AGW?  Why is the reality of the FED’s machinations also off topic?  In other words when did they sell out or have they always basically been nothing more than controlled opposition and left liberal gate keepers?  And keep in mind the “right and left” are just sock puppets for the plutocrats who are actually running shit, they each have their talking heads whether they be Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore, they are millionaires with agenda’s and they really aren’t all that concerned with the Truth.  They are both happy with their fatcat mansions though apparently.

            I can’t take any organization seriously that ignores evidence that is crucial for understanding the way our World actually functions.  This of course would be antithetical to real journalistic ethics and the support from the Ford Foundation (which is linked to the CIA mind you)  I’m getting long winded.  Here is an article from a “leftist” who is documenting the use of foundations to undermine “leftist” ambitions by supporting a constricted perspective and pushing their own agenda through astroturf orgs like DN.  

            IntroductionThe CIA uses philanthropic foundations as the most effective conduit to channel large sums of money to Agency projects without alerting the recipients to their source. From the early 1950s to the present the CIA’s intrusion into the foundation field was and is huge. A U.S. Congressional investigation in 1976 revealed that nearly 50% of the 700 grants in the field of international activities by the principal foundations were funded by the CIA (Who Paid the Piper? The CIA and the Cultural Cold War, Frances Stonor Saunders, Granta Books, 1999, pp. 134-135). The CIA considers foundations such as Ford “The best and most plausible kind of funding cover” (Ibid, p. 135). The collaboration of respectable and prestigious foundations, according to one former CIA operative, allowed the Agency to fund “a seemingly limitless range of covert action programs affecting youth groups, labor unions, universities, publishing houses and other private institutions” (p. 135). The latter included “human rights” groups beginning in the 1950s to the present. One of the most important “private foundations” collaborating with the CIA over a significant span of time in major projects in the cultural Cold War is the Ford Foundation.This essay will demonstrate that the Ford Foundation-CIA connection was a deliberate, conscious joint effort to strengthen U.S. imperial cultural hegemony and to undermine left-wing political and cultural influence. We will proceed by examining the historical links between the Ford Foundation and the CIA during the Cold War, by examining the Presidents of the Foundation, their joint projects and goals as well as their common efforts in various cultural areas.

            http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/FordFandCIA.html

            Would love to see Adbusters or DN cover any of this.  Why not the professor is “leftist” and they support the “left” right??  Oh my me it looks like the black and white world you inhabit will need to adjust to grey suddenly.  

        • Jin The Ninja

          my post was meant to be succinct, smart assed and antagonistic- obviously it worked.

    • FREAKpowerULTD.

      We’ve lost that battle(9/11 “truth”), what else ya got?

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

        “we’ve”  so what are you doing again for 9/11 Truth?  Anyone actually in the fight would never say such cowardly trite bullshit.  What else you got?

        • FREAKpowerULTD.

          I don’t give a damn about 911 trooth. You don’t know the “truth” about 9/11 any more than anybody else. Alex Jones and his ilk and the branding of the “9/11 truth movement” pretty much guaranteed it will never be taken seriously and remain a marginalized conspiracy culture meme forever. And that is how that battle was lost. And I also don’t think the fed is the root of all our problems either, though its certainly a symptom. Its capitalism and its heirarchical organizational structure that rewards psychopaths that IS the root of all our problems that we need to deal with.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Just like I said above.  I can agree with people without believing unquestioningly in everything they say.  For instance I agree with you in part.  Psychopaths and the rewards they receive are an unfortunate reality we must deal with. 

            Is “Capitalism” to blame?  Who is supposed to oversee the function of corporations and regulate their behavior?  Quick answer, our Government.  So you see “Capitalism” is not to blame is it.  That is because we do not have “Capitalism”, what we are forced to endure is more akin to a mixture of “Corporatism” & “Crony Capitalism”, meaning it’s a plutocracy where the monied interests manipulate government regulatory policy to allow for unfair advantages in the form of subsidies, tarifs, exemptions, and an infinite mixture of double standards for those who can afford to purchase political representation via lobbying, donations, etc.  This is an oversimplification but it opens the door for a more realistic conversation on the state of affairs we are faced with.Now I am no economist so I will do what I can which is to keep studying and try to understand the melange of manipulation that is the modern day marketplace.  Regarding 9/11 Truth and Alex Jones.  Alex actually stays very close to the material as presented by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.  If you have a Specific issue with their scholarship than by all means offer it and perhaps you can open your mind to new information.  Also Alex does not have the massive pull you imagine to sway all of mankind from understanding the simple equation of 2 planes destroying 3 towers as not adding up so again you have a hole in your logic, that and of course he is an ardent supporter of the facts being made known actually is a blessing for the movement.  Good thing he has such a huge following for 9/11 Truth huh! The battle is still raging, even if you say it isn’t “anonymous internet person”.  Just today I was handing out flyers and soccer mom’s asked me what I was doing and were polite, kind and genuinely interested.  You see there is so much saturation thanks to Alex, Jesse Ventura, The Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, RememberBuilding7.org, NYCCAN, We Are Change, Firemen for 911 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, etc etc etc etc all the way down the line. That every college student I speak with, every truck stop employee, every police officer have heard of Building 7 and notify as much with the same look of revelation within their eyes.   We are in a different age than Kennedy.  You can’t keep shit like that under wraps anymore.   Also those Soccer Moms want their children to have a chance at a life not resembling the eternal boot stomping on the face of humanity, and because they are hardwired to nurture and perpetuate this grand human experience on Earth, as they learn the Truth and the real information get’s out to them it’s exciting to imagine that powerful font of love, compassion, and sustenance applied to the coming revolution.  Go try for yourself.  Talk to a Soccer Mom today and ask her what she wouldn’t do to help her child fulfill their cosmic destiny on the Mothership.  As for the Federal Reserve.  Perhaps you should consider the following quote.  “Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws.” — Mayer Amsched Rothchild If you actually want to learn about the world works you may want to consider the purpose of the Federal Reserve and it’s unconstitutional parasitic presence controlling the value of the currency that dominates global trade (for now) and it’s insidious history in enslaving the United States of America for almost 100 years.   The Curse is almost lifted.  Whether or not you want to identify the real problems is your prerogative.  Just realize you will not be fooling anyone other than yourself.By the way it’s spelled Truth not Trooth.  Not trying to be a dick or anything but I usually like when people correct my mistakes in grammar, spelling, in punctuation. (as I have many, damn you compulsory education instituted and enforced by the same families who brought us the Fed, don’t take my word for it, study John Taylor Gatto)Best wishes.

          • FREAKpowerULTD.

            I’ve actually studied pretty much every single thing you mentioned above thoroughly. I’ve read Jim Marrs ‘The Terror Conspiracy’ and Peter Dale Scott’s ‘The Road to 9/11′, plus digital reams of info on 9/11 and I’ve also seen plenty of documentaries, a few good ones(‘Who Killed John O’Neill’ was a good one) and plenty of bad ones(‘Loose Change’ and basically anything by Alex Jones). But, I still don’t know what exactly happened on 9/11 and who exactly was behind it. It is very much like The Kennedy Assasination. Was it Johnson? The Mob? The Cubans? The CIA? We’re they all stumbling over each other to kill him? or were they helping one another? And thats where you lose me because you speak of the “truth” of 9/11. If it was called the Question 9/11 Movement I might be able to get behind it. Most truthers also seem to be tied up in libertarian politics, i.e. if we just got rid of the fed, went back to the gold standard and/or instituted the free market then everything would be hunky dory. There is nothing special about the U.S. of A and the world wasn’t a magical place before the fed came along. Slavery, oppresion, murder and deceit pretty much became the modus operandi of the emerging elite about 10,000 years ago with the rise of heirarchical civilization. Then the nation states solidified and then the colonialism and imperialism began and eventually when corporations could no longer be contained within a border any longer then globalisation got underway and now were in the end stages of global capitalism. Quite naturally, a worldwide revolution has developed of which I am thoroughly behind 100%

            My name is Hanshan Temple and I’m an anarchist. Pleased to meet you.

            BTW, I’m about 8 chapters into John Taylor Gatto’s ‘The Underground History of American Education’. Pretty illuminating. Check out Scott Noble’s documentary ‘Human Resources’ for more on the twisted history of Mindfuck Inc. It features Mr. Gatto.

            And also, Marx did have at least one good idea in that the workers should own the means of production although Bakunin was right that his solutions to the problem of capitalism(and it is most definitely a problem) would lead to bloody totalitarian dictatorships. Marxist is not a term you should just throw around.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             What do you think of Building 7?  I would suggest if you really want to understand the Truth about 9/11 to study the scientific evidence as offered by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.  I think you are missing the point with statements like, “And thats where you lose me because you speak of the “truth” of 9/11. If it was called the Question 9/11 Movement I might be able to get behind it.”  There is no one monolithic hive mind who controls the 911  “truth” movement.  Just think of it as people looking for the Truth as to what really happened.  A pretty noble endeavor by any standard of human history.  No one is saying this is the end all be all TRUTH as we are often erroneously (and nonsensically) labeled (as a way to avoid the implications and responsibility of the search) as such if you want to study the material of the Architect’s and Engineers you will definitely realize they are much closer to the “Truth” using the scientific method than the government’s comic book conspiracy theory.  Now that we’ve cleared that up, I agree there are aspects of Marxism that as a theoretical concept sound good, but the underside of this is the unspoken agreement that someone like say a Lenin, a Mao, a Stalin must be allowed to run things until the utopian inertia is overcome and however many millions are slaughtered in the mean time in order to get things up and running is simply collateral damage. It would be nice for the workers to own the means of production but it would require a seismic shift in human nature at this point and the transition period as referenced above failed miserably.  Do we still think this ism will work?  I’m more for the government being the servant of the people and nothing else.  Sadly that experiment is impinged upon by all sides by the same “elitist” families who funded communism. Glad to hear you are studying John Taylor Gatto.  Jan Irvin is doing great work over at gnosticmedia.com ensuring his material is widely available.  Thank for your reponse.  Let me know what you think having studied Building 7.

          • FREAKpowerULTD.

            Yes, I think Building 7 was controlled demolition. Building 1 and 2 not so sure. The visionary artist Paul Laffoley, who was an understudy architect on WTC, said that charges were built into the building. Did GWB know what was going on?. I don’t think so. Did Cheney? yes, I think so. And who was Mohammed Atta? What of the insider trading? What really happened at the pentagon? These are all good questions and 9/11 certainly has opened alot of eyes, but I have to reiterate that 9/11 is not the root of the problem. It happened to Americans on American soil but millions were murdered before then and millions have been murdered since.(read Zinn’s ‘People’s History’ if you never have) Ten years on, the security state is stronger now than its ever been and we are no closer to a new public hearing on 9/11. And what of the evidence? Where is the smoking gun?

            Marx(and Lenin,Stalin, Mao and Guevara, by extension) was wrong about alot of things as we both pointed
            out. Ideology gets people killed. But, the point is that authority gives a license to kill and to enslave. Its as true of capitalists as it is Marxists. The neocons and the neoliberals are most certainly highly evolved capitalists who are highly efficient at murder slavery and coercion. I am no patriot. No flag or border can contain my human spirit. I am anti-authoritarian. I bow to no government. I choose to take responsibility for myself and my community. this is the path to real freedom.

            9/11 certainly gave me a deeper understanding of the nature of the power structure but its not a fight I’m trying to win. Economic collapse, peak oil and peak other resources and above all the alarming clip at which we are destroying the biosphere and exterminating over 100 species a day on average are the issues that I’m interested in right now. Nature is primary, because if its degraded then we’re degraded. If it collapses then we collapse. Capital has to grow infinitely, but the planet is finite. Thus capitalism quite naturally is our enemy. We have to organize horizontally and spread power evenly amongst the people so it can dissipate. Decentralization is key. I think this is ultimately where the Occupy Movement is going and that is what I’m putting my energy behind right now. 9/11 is a good primer, but it is not a necessity for making these connections.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Looks like we agree on more points than disagree.  Where did you get the figure of over 100 species per day being exterminated?  WTC 1 & 2 are a new type of demolition but surely meet all the criteria for a controlled demolition as well. (http://ae911truth.org/ Just look at the info on the right side of the page)

            The Smoking gun is the evidence of Building 7′s obvious implosion, the hundreds of eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions (caught on video as well), the thousands of experts in across the spectrum of engineering, military, law enforcement, and intelligence’s testimony and of course the unchallenged evidence for nano thermite residue found in the dust from all three WTC towers.  It’s not lack of evidence, it’s lack of awareness and will power.

            9/11 serves as The Achilles heel of the Military Industrial Complex/NeoCon coup or NWO whatever we want to call it.  Once it is exposed, everyone realizes the game has changed and will hopefully shift gears into a mode or real awakening and action to restore our collective liberties and inalienable rights as documented in the Constitution.  As nice as total freedom sounds on paper, I would prefer some law to point to in case the state comes knocking.  The world is rather small and yes Fema camps are real whether or not people choose to believe in them.  Continuity of Government, Project Doomsday and Rex 84 are all available as part of the public record so for any naysayers out there, do your homework.

            That being said we are all at a crossroads and the clock is ticking.   The OWS seems to be as nothing more than a controlled burn of the peaking populist tumult, corralled by the likes of the Soros funded Adbusters and used as a public display of state power as each weakened encampment is brought down by the DHS apparatus.  It has not served much of any purpose outside of  maintaining the left/right paradigm.  If only the  Libertarians/Conservatives and The Liberal/Democrats could realize they are on the same team before draconian measures such as seen in yesterdays passing of  Senate Bill 1867 displace the few protections we have left.  This of course is only even a possibility because of the continued cover up of 9/11.

            Sometimes we have to set our ideologies aside and see what is before we can hope to achieve any idea of Liberty or Freedom.  Until 9/11 is understood and exposed all of the sickening machinations of statist domination and control of our lives will continue.  Do we have the willingness to seize Excalibur, to utilize the same spirit of Galileo using reason and science alone to discredit the “authority” of the catholic church to dictate “reality” or “royality”.  We have the same opportunity and a greater chance do to the state of the internet now.  But if we presume erroneously, that  just because people have been murdered in the past that it some how does not require our speaking out now is a tragically naive.  Even the most hardened of anarchist compounds have no chance against the military might chomping at the bit to get all WACO on everybody.  If you think otherwise you are underestimating your adversary at your own peril.

            OWS does nothing to affect real change in my opinion.  Even now going on 3 months later there is no “one demand” anywhere from the group that amounts to anything more than the empty lip service of designer “revolution” as seen in any issue of adbusters.  Even the phrase we are the 99% does little to rectify public policy towards reformation ,but seems to serve mostly to route anger towards the corporations and banks rather than the Federal Reserve which sits upon them all enabling fractional reserve lending and debt out of nothing to continue unabated.  

            In other words controlled opposition facing down the shadow and not the substance of their en$lavement, while being divided from their Brothers and Sisters who have the same basic desires.  

            Thank you for introducing yourself, sorry I was posting late and missed  your polite offering.  Nice to meet you.  

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      Whoops meant to say “Tout” not “Taught” oh well.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    But then again you don’t see Anonymous, Julian Assange or any of the new school anarchists calling for a new investigation do we…. Interesting to note.  

  • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

    But then again you don’t see Anonymous, Julian Assange or any of the new school anarchists calling for a new investigation do we…. Interesting to note.  

  • Jin Onikoroshi

    you’ve got to be f*cking kidding me.

  • FREAKpowerULTD.

    We’ve lost that battle(9/11 “truth”), what else ya got?

  • Anonymous

    yeah, remember when anonymous occupied zuccotti park on jun 14th this year? yeah, the mainstream media and 99.9999% of the occupiers don’t either. that’s fine adbusters, take credit where credit isn’t do.

  • A_N_0_N_Y_M_0_U_S

    yeah, remember when anonymous occupied zuccotti park on jun 14th this year? yeah, the mainstream media and 99.9999% of the occupiers don’t either. that’s fine adbusters, take credit where credit isn’t do.

  • Liam_McGonagle

    I don’t understand why I’ve seen so many negative comments about “taking credit” here.

    It’s one thing to show up late for the party, like MoveOn, and then try to charge guests admission (e.g., imply that participation in OWS requires endorsement of its agenda, a la that lameass self-congratulatory email that MO sent out more than a month after the fact).

    But it’s quite another to simply, and accurately, claim that you created a very identifiable piece of art, and that its underlying aesthetic has suffused your work for decades.

    I thought OWS was about getting beyond the divisive I-Me-Mine, grasping/grabbing bullsh*t.  I don’t want what doesn’t belong to me.  Lasn deserves some credit.  I don’t see any claim here that exceeds the appropriate.

     Maybe folks who didn’t read beyond the title allowed themselves to be misled, but come one.  It’s a media thing.  Of course they have to come up with some eye-catching blurb to hook you.  I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that the title alone is a 100% complete or accurate summation of the article’s contents.  There’d be no point in writing a 1,000-word piece if you could communicate the whole thing in a 6 word sentence fragment.

    I say more power to Lasn, and others like him, who have indeed been working along these lines for decades.  OWS is a fantastic demonstration of the way moral concepts can really capture the zeitgeist when they reach a critical mass. Let’s not blow it by going after each other’s throats in some +1/-1 bullcr*p.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      ““If you’re able to come up with a very sexy sounding hash tag like we did for Occupy Wall Street, and you come up with a very magical looking poster that seems to have something very profound about it, these devices push these memes, these meta memes, into the public imagination in a very powerful way,” he said.”  

      Wow,, ok don’t pull your shoulder out slapping your own back or anything Kalle.  The completely obvious hashtag #OccupyWallStreet is “very sexy sounding”, how about his “magical looking poster”, can you tell this guy was in advertising for a long time?  It’s as though he can’t help himself with the self-congratulatory superlatives.  

      Let’s strip it down to the nitty gritty.  You enabled the corralling of genuine populist uprising by slapping your own label on top of everything associated with OWS.  Kinda like facebook and twitter enabling the ole Egyptian, “Arab Spring” … (Whatever happend to Egypt anyhow? Ah who cares I look cool in my $40 dollar vneck tshirt with free Adbusters magazine) 

      You then force the unsuspecting to be again corralled into your fucking web-site by purchasing the OccupyWallStreet.Org (again completely obvious theft, but then I suspect you were tipped off for the same reason a facebook  employee enabled the Military to become a dictatorship in Egypt)  So back to the web-site, the effect of your “Branding” is that now people think they are dealing with HQ when they are just dealing with a sleaze bag tick of a magazine playing controlled opposition gate keeper while enforcing Marxist/Socialist values on a supposedly non partisan collective, thereby influencing and meddling with the grassroots emergence of any actual political demands.  Let alone dealing with the actual root of the problems.  

      So to answer maybe this has something to do with what you see as “negative” feedback.  If you want to ignore the facts go head but don’t presume it’s “negative” to include them in an accurate reflection of what is going on.

      Fuck AstroTurf and Fuck Ad Busters.  Take your Blackspot swoosh sneakers and shove it up your ass you pretentious faux revolutionary ad executive.  

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo
      “By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing… Kill Yourselves” -Bill Hicks

      • Liam_McGonagle

        Lasn a “Mainstream Media” type?  Um, “No.”  Not even close.

        I think you’re confusing a few things here.  You’re confusing “one-way media conduits” with “Mainstream Media”.  And you’re confusing “creation of iconic art” with “ownership of a social movement.”  You’re also confusing NY Time’s editorial decision to seek an interview with Lasn as Lasn’s active self-promotion.

        If you mean to say that over-reliance on traditional, one-way mass media like the Adbuster print magazine is the hallmark and harbinger of the dysfunctional, incompetent top-downers that are the focus of OWS’s wrath, you’re correct. 

        But I would be very interested in knowing how our culture could be expected to sustain thoughtful analysis without long-form media like magazines, novels, etc.  Isn’t a big part of what is wrong with our culture that thoughtful analysis has been marginalized in order to favor sales-inducing info blurbs and Youtube ad pitches?  Let’s face it:  you can have one-way outlets without deep content, but you can’t have deep content without one-way outlets.

        How much do you really know about Adbusters?  They’re hardly the corporate-friendly narcotic you’re imagining them to be.  A typical issue is chock full of disturbing photoessays, expose’s and articles by challenging authors.  Yes, Adbusters can be willfully misinterpreted by anyone really determined to do so.  Clue-less bookstores here in Wisconsin usually stock them in the “Art/Lifestyle” section rather than current events, for instance.  But I don’t think that the inventers of the concept “Buy Nothing Day” can be credibly accused of being card-carrying members of the Chamber of Commerce.  Not by anyone with more than a passing acquaintance with reality, anyhow.

        No, no truly populist movement will ever be sustained by legacy one-way media like print magazines alone.  But neither can it be sustained in the vacuum of deep thought that would accompany their total absence, either. 

        And I really don’t think there is any claim in this article that OWS depended on Lasn for its life existence.  Only that he and his magazine served a valuable role in artfully articulating some of its main themes.  That’s all.  I don’t see any purported descriptions of “Lasn’s frenzied schedule” of meetings, conference calls to discuss bussing in 10′s of 1,000′s of protestors or financing and arranging logistics for their encampment in Zuccotti.  I think you really need to read this article for what it’s really saying.

        I think any sophisticated reader of this article will understand that, in context, NY Times is a legacy, old-media outlet that has trouble getting past its own historical biases.  So naturally their interest was peaked by another guy whose background is also in print media, like Lasn is.  But Adbusters is clearly a very marginal property.  As I mentioned before in regard to its marketing in Wisconsin bookstores, no one takes it very seriously.

        I think your critique bumps into an important point about OWS–that OWS is a dynamic form of popular engagement that is in some ways counter to traditional media models.  But maybe you’re a little in danger of missing the forest for the trees here?  Let’s not allow jealousy to get the better of us here.  This is a cooperative endeavor, after all.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

          Why is it that whenever you critique someone here you have to go back and point out the actual points of your argument as they are invariably avoided, why is that?  I’m not jealous of anyone at Adbusters.  I just think they are pretentious self flagellating (white guilt) self flatulating (fart huffing) shameless marxist utopioids who promote only information which fits within their comfortable ideologies.  Hence, why I pointed out they don’t talk about the Federal Reserve, 9/11 or AGW being a bunch of bullshit pseudoscience and actually censor discussion of this material on their bullshit co opted occupywallstreet.org web site and their co opted “sexy” hashtags.  That’s what I wrote.  Can you see any of the trees I just laid out, stop pretending there not in the forest.  I’ve read Ad busters and they do cover a few things well, but sadly they are ensconsed within marxist propaganda that places the blame within the confines of “the spectrum of allowable opinion” and avoid discussion of the root causes that are truly to blame, therefore they are performing the work of a gatekeeper in my opinion.  But hey they could always prove me wrong and say report on the 10 year anniversary 9/11 hearings that happened IN TORONTO.  Or shit I dunno how about feature Joshua Blakeney who is both a marxist and a 9/11 Truther and made national headlines because of Jonathan Kay’s (The Mossad Hagiographer) hit piece.  I’m sorry to burst your bubble but don’t misrepresent the messenger buddy.   Please stop erecting strawmen and deal with what I actually said.  I never said whatever his name is was “mainstream”, also please stop inferring that someone is “jealous” because they hold a different opinion than you.  

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            A few quotes from Mr. Lasn and Adbusters.  “The cost of this brave new world? Lasn recommends: “Not just a carbon tax, but a global across-the-board pricing system.” The price he gives of an “ethical” car? One hundred thousand dollars. An “ethical” tank of gas? A bargain at $250. The rich would certainly enjoy the lack of traffic.”

            http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters

            “A reporter from the Sydney Sun Herald asked Lasn whether he ever eats at McDonald’s. He admitted he did and explained, “People ask me this all the time — it’s very embarrassing — but I’m just a walking, talking contradiction. I’m not pure, and I don’t feel like I want to be all that pure.” Why Americans must be purer than Kalle Lasn is something he has refused to explain.”

            “Why do Adbusters writers and editors hate personal choice so much? Because their utopia would be a nightmare for most Americans. “What makes you think you have the right to drive around with a ton of metal wrapped around you,” asks the September/October 2003 issue, “the right to twist a tap and get hot water, the right to flick a switch and get your house warmed up?” Were the Adbusters group to get its way, hundreds of years of progress would vanish.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            And just a tid bit more about Adbusters  http://activistcash.com/organization_connections.cfm/o/36-adbusters
            George Soros’s Tide Foundation.  Tides Foundation & Tides CenterThe Tides Foundation has granted the anti-corporate Adbusters Media Foundation over $170,000 since 1996. Ironically, much of the money Tides funnels to activists comes from foundations started with corporate money, such as Pew Charitable Trusts (Sun Oil money) and the Ford Foundation.Adbusters and Greenpeace have jointly campaigned against corporate interests over global warming. Adbusters’ advertising agency, PowerShift, also produces ads for Greenpeace. “Autosaurus,” an attack on the automobile industry, was aired on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation television network, which then pulled it, citing sponsor concerns. Adbusters successfully sued for breach of contract.It’s kinda hard to question AGW when you are in bed with Green Peace and The Sierra Club.Smug alert.http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104282/smuggy-san-francisco-town

          • Andrew

            I’m not smart enough to understand when people explain to me happened on 9/11, but I totally agree with your first sentence.

    • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

      Sadly…a lot of the full time ‘professional left’ of America’s mainstream are exactly that callow, that underhanded, and that contemptible. They have seen the future and are frantically grasping hold of any chance to regain their relevance…not quite grasping that their conduct, even now, is EXACTLY why they lost relevance AND the moral high ground in the first place.

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

        I agree entirely. 

  • Anonymous

    I don’t understand why I’ve seen so many negative comments about “taking credit” here.

    It’s one thing to show up late for the party, like MoveOn, and then try to charge guests admission (e.g., imply that participation in OWS requires endorsement of its agenda, a la that lameass self-congratulatory email that MO sent out more than a month after the fact).

    But it’s quite another to simply, and accurately, claim that you created a very identifiable piece of art, and that its underlying aesthetic has suffused your work for decades.

    I thought OWS was about getting beyond the divisive I-Me-Mine, grasping/grabbing bullsh*t.  I don’t want what doesn’t belong to me.  Lasn deserves some credit.  I don’t see any claim here that exceeds the appropriate.

     Maybe folks who didn’t read beyond the title allowed themselves to be misled, but come one.  It’s a media thing.  Of course they have to come up with some eye-catching blurb to hook you.  I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that the title alone is a 100% complete or accurate summation of the article’s contents.  There’d be no point in writing a 1,000-word piece if you could communicate the whole thing in a 6 word sentence fragment.

    I say more power to Lasn, and others like him, who have indeed been working along these lines for decades.  OWS is a fantastic demonstration of the way moral concepts can really capture the zeitgeist when they reach a critical mass. Let’s not blow it by going after each other’s throats in some +1/-1 bullcr*p.

  • $4251815

    Buy your shiny new copy of Adbusters and fight the power! Only ten bucks! Adbusters is cool when you’re 21 and angry and ignorant and just finding out the world is bullshit.

  • ZombieSlapper

    Buy your shiny new copy of Adbusters and fight the power! Only ten bucks! Adbusters is cool when you’re 21 and angry and ignorant and just finding out the world is bullshit.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Whoops meant to say “Tout” not “Taught” oh well.

  • BuzzCoastin

    “There’s a number of ways to wage a meme war,”

    imitation is the sincerest form of battery

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    “There’s a number of ways to wage a meme war,”

    imitation is the sincerest form of battery

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    “There’s a number of ways to wage a meme war,”

    imitation is the sincerest form of battery

  • Camron Wiltshire

    ““If you’re able to come up with a very sexy sounding hash tag like we did for Occupy Wall Street, and you come up with a very magical looking poster that seems to have something very profound about it, these devices push these memes, these meta memes, into the public imagination in a very powerful way,” he said.”  

    Wow,, ok don’t pull your shoulder out slapping your own back or anything Kalle.  The completely obvious hashtag #OccupyWallStreet is “very sexy sounding”, how about his “magical looking poster”, can you tell this guy was in advertising for a long time?  It’s as though he can’t help himself with the self-congratulatory superlatives.  

    Let’s strip it down to the nitty gritty.  You enabled the corralling of genuine populist uprising by slapping your own label on top of everything associated with OWS.  Kinda like facebook and twitter enabling the ole Egyptian, “Arab Spring” … (Whatever happend to Egypt anyhow? Ah who cares I look cool in my $40 dollar vneck tshirt with free Adbusters magazine) 

    You then force the unsuspecting to be again corralled into your fucking web-site by purchasing the OccupyWallStreet.Org (again completely obvious theft, but then I suspect you were tipped off for the same reason a facebook  employee enabled the Military to become a dictatorship in Egypt)  So back to the web-site, the effect of your “Branding” is that now people think they are dealing with HQ when they are just dealing with a sleaze bag tick of a magazine playing controlled opposition gate keeper while enforcing Marxist/Socialist values on a supposedly non partisan collective, thereby influencing and meddling with the grassroots emergence of any actual political demands.  Let alone dealing with the actual root of the problems.  

    So to answer maybe this has something to do with what you see as “negative” feedback.  If you want to ignore the facts go head but don’t presume it’s “negative” to include them in an accurate reflection of what is going on.

    Fuck AstroTurf and Fuck Ad Busters.  Take your Blackspot swoosh sneakers and shove it up your ass you pretentious faux revolutionary ad executive.  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo
    “By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing… Kill Yourselves” -Bill Hicks

  • Camron Wiltshire

    “we’ve”  so what are you doing again for 9/11 Truth?  Anyone actually in the fight would never say such cowardly trite bullshit.  What else you got?

  • Camron Wiltshire

    another “brilliant” and hollow utterance from Jin.  Sorry I pissed you off over Ron Paul but if you are gonna say something, well.. try to actually say something.  

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Sadly…a lot of the full time ‘professional left’ of America’s mainstream are exactly that callow, that underhanded, and that contemptible. They have seen the future and are frantically grasping hold of any chance to regain their relevance…not quite grasping that their conduct, even now, is EXACTLY why they lost relevance AND the moral high ground in the first place.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Sadly…a lot of the full time ‘professional left’ of America’s mainstream are exactly that callow, that underhanded, and that contemptible. They have seen the future and are frantically grasping hold of any chance to regain their relevance…not quite grasping that their conduct, even now, is EXACTLY why they lost relevance AND the moral high ground in the first place.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Sadly…a lot of the full time ‘professional left’ of America’s mainstream are exactly that callow, that underhanded, and that contemptible. They have seen the future and are frantically grasping hold of any chance to regain their relevance…not quite grasping that their conduct, even now, is EXACTLY why they lost relevance AND the moral high ground in the first place.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Sadly…a lot of the full time ‘professional left’ of America’s mainstream are exactly that callow, that underhanded, and that contemptible. They have seen the future and are frantically grasping hold of any chance to regain their relevance…not quite grasping that their conduct, even now, is EXACTLY why they lost relevance AND the moral high ground in the first place.

  • FREAKpowerULTD.

    I don’t give a damn about 911 trooth. You don’t know the “truth” about 9/11 any more than anybody else. Alex Jones and his ilk and the branding of the “9/11 truth movement” pretty much guaranteed it will never be taken seriously and remain a marginalized conspiracy culture meme forever. And that is how that battle was lost. And I also don’t think the fed is the root of all our problems either, though its certainly a symptom. Its capitalism and its heirarchical organizational structure that rewards psychopaths that IS the root of all our problems that we need to deal with.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Just like I said above.  I can agree with people without believing unquestioningly in everything they say.  For instance I agree with you in part.  Psychopaths and the rewards they receive are an unfortunate reality we must deal with. 

    Is “Capitalism” to blame?  Who is supposed to oversee the function of corporations and regulate their behavior?  Quick answer, our Government.  So you see “Capitalism” is not to blame is it.  That is because we do not have “Capitalism”, what we are forced to endure is more akin to a mixture of “Corporatism” & “Crony Capitalism”, meaning it’s a plutocracy where the monied interests manipulate government regulatory policy to allow for unfair advantages in the form of subsidies, tarifs, exemptions, and an infinite mixture of double standards for those who can afford to purchase political representation via lobbying, donations, etc.  This is an oversimplification but it opens the door for a more realistic conversation on the state of affairs we are faced with.Now I am no economist so I will do what I can which is to keep studying and try to understand the melange of manipulation that is the modern day marketplace.  Regarding 9/11 Truth and Alex Jones.  Alex actually stays very close to the material as presented by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.  If you have a Specific issue with their scholarship than by all means offer it and perhaps you can open your mind to new information.  Also Alex does not have the massive pull you imagine to sway all of mankind from understanding the simple equation of 2 planes destroying 3 towers as not adding up so again you have a hole in your logic, that and of course he is an ardent supporter of the facts being made known actually is a blessing for the movement.  Good thing he has such a huge following for 9/11 Truth huh! The battle is still raging, even if you say it isn’t “anonymous internet person”.  Just today I was handing out flyers and soccer mom’s asked me what I was doing and were polite, kind and genuinely interested.  You see there is so much saturation thanks to Alex, Jesse Ventura, The Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, RememberBuilding7.org, NYCCAN, We Are Change, Firemen for 911 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, etc etc etc etc all the way down the line. That every college student I speak with, every truck stop employee, every police officer have heard of Building 7 and notify as much with the same look of revelation within their eyes.   We are in a different age than Kennedy.  You can’t keep shit like that under wraps anymore.   Also those Soccer Moms want their children to have a chance at a life not resembling the eternal boot stomping on the face of humanity, and because they are hardwired to nurture and perpetuate this grand human experience on Earth, as they learn the Truth and the real information get’s out to them it’s exciting to imagine that powerful font of love, compassion, and sustenance applied to the coming revolution.  Go try for yourself.  Talk to a Soccer Mom today and ask her what she wouldn’t do to help her child fulfill their cosmic destiny on the Mothership.  As for the Federal Reserve.  Perhaps you should consider the following quote.  “Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws.” — Mayer Amsched Rothchild If you actually want to learn about the world works you may want to consider the purpose of the Federal Reserve and it’s unconstitutional parasitic presence controlling the value of the currency that dominates global trade (for now) and it’s insidious history in enslaving the United States of America for almost 100 years.   The Curse is almost lifted.  Whether or not you want to identify the real problems is your prerogative.  Just realize you will not be fooling anyone other than yourself.By the way it’s spelled Truth not Trooth.  Not trying to be a dick or anything but I usually like when people correct my mistakes in grammar, spelling, in punctuation. (as I have many, damn you compulsory education instituted and enforced by the same families who brought us the Fed, don’t take my word for it, study John Taylor Gatto)Best wishes.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    I agree entirely. 

  • Jin Onikoroshi

    Nice try Cameron, I gave you 2 long and substantial replies on a prior page to which you did not even respond.

  • Jin Onikoroshi

    my post was meant to be succinct, smart assed and antagonistic- obviously it worked.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    I didn’t respond to your previous post as you seem to have an issue with staying on a relevant topic and also leveling accusations not founded by my actual presentations.  So it becomes a cluster fuck rather than a conversation in trying to talk to you. If you can take a deep breath and proceed with one valid concept at a time I would be willing to discuss whatever you like.  By valid I mean regarding the previous posts I have made.  Also I didn’t “hijack” anything, I simply stated my opinion.  As you have done as well.  Why then do you feel the need to use such loaded phrases in discussion?  Why do you focus on Jones when I repeatedly stated that I dont’ agree with all of his beliefs or personality quirks.  Can you begin to understand why someone might not want to indulge you in a conversation as you have displayed your not actually listening to what I have said, an in a very immature manner presuming it’s interesting or amusing that you then proceed to venture out on imaginative tangents that neither resolve nor reflect anything I’ve actually said.

    Back to the point now that I have made it clear again by posting something you only have to scroll up a few posts to see exactly what I’m talking about.   ” let me state categorically to pre empt the trolls and spammers on here, that just because I advocate the position of someone on a certain issues, does not imply that I support ALL of their positions or research.  This should go without saying but we all know the trolls will attack which way they can.  Alex Jone’s does talk about the Fed, does talk about 9/11 and false flag terrorism.  Therefore I will link to him.  I dont’ agree with all of what he has said or stated but I do support his willingness to discuss these issues as they are ignored almost entirely by mainstream media. ”

    So you see you are wasting everyone’s time by interjecting into conversations with spurious and inflammatory rhetoric.

    Now as for the Ford Foundation and DN, I can tell I have struck a nerve with you here and hey I understand.  I too used to unflinchingly support DN as “THE progressive news outlet”.  I’ve met Amy on at least 2 occassions during her book tours and listened to a few hundred hours of DN as well.  So what I’m saying comes from a place of experience you ought to consider.  Now that being said why is it that DN is so unwilling to cover the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth?  Why won’t they present any of the evidence questioning AGW?  Why is the reality of the FED’s machinations also off topic?  In other words when did they sell out or have they always basically been nothing more than controlled opposition and left liberal gate keepers?  And keep in mind the “right and left” are just sock puppets for the plutocrats who are actually running shit, they each have their talking heads whether they be Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore, they are millionaires with agenda’s and they really aren’t all that concerned with the Truth.  They are both happy with their fatcat mansions though apparently.

    I can’t take any organization seriously that ignores evidence that is crucial for understanding the way our World actually functions.  This of course would be antithetical to real journalistic ethics and the support from the Ford Foundation (which is linked to the CIA mind you)  I’m getting long winded.  Here is an article from a “leftist” who is documenting the use of foundations to undermine “leftist” ambitions by supporting a constricted perspective and pushing their own agenda through astroturf orgs like DN.  

    IntroductionThe CIA uses philanthropic foundations as the most effective conduit to channel large sums of money to Agency projects without alerting the recipients to their source. From the early 1950s to the present the CIA’s intrusion into the foundation field was and is huge. A U.S. Congressional investigation in 1976 revealed that nearly 50% of the 700 grants in the field of international activities by the principal foundations were funded by the CIA (Who Paid the Piper? The CIA and the Cultural Cold War, Frances Stonor Saunders, Granta Books, 1999, pp. 134-135). The CIA considers foundations such as Ford “The best and most plausible kind of funding cover” (Ibid, p. 135). The collaboration of respectable and prestigious foundations, according to one former CIA operative, allowed the Agency to fund “a seemingly limitless range of covert action programs affecting youth groups, labor unions, universities, publishing houses and other private institutions” (p. 135). The latter included “human rights” groups beginning in the 1950s to the present. One of the most important “private foundations” collaborating with the CIA over a significant span of time in major projects in the cultural Cold War is the Ford Foundation.This essay will demonstrate that the Ford Foundation-CIA connection was a deliberate, conscious joint effort to strengthen U.S. imperial cultural hegemony and to undermine left-wing political and cultural influence. We will proceed by examining the historical links between the Ford Foundation and the CIA during the Cold War, by examining the Presidents of the Foundation, their joint projects and goals as well as their common efforts in various cultural areas.

    http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/FordFandCIA.html

    Would love to see Adbusters or DN cover any of this.  Why not the professor is “leftist” and they support the “left” right??  Oh my me it looks like the black and white world you inhabit will need to adjust to grey suddenly.  

  • Anonymous

    Lasn a “Mainstream Media” type?  Um, “No.”  Not even close.

    I think you’re confusing a few things here.  You’re confusing “one-way media conduits” with “Mainstream Media”.  And you’re confusing “creation of iconic art” with “ownership of a social movement.”  You’re also confusing NY Time’s editorial decision to seek an interview with Lasn as Lasn’s active self-promotion.

    If you mean to say that over-reliance on traditional, one-way mass media like the Adbuster print magazine is the hallmark and harbinger of the dysfunctional, incompetent top-downers that are the focus of OWS’s wrath, you’re correct. 

    But I would be very interested in knowing how our culture could be expected to sustain thoughtful analysis without long-form media like magazines, novels, etc.  Isn’t a big part of what is wrong with our culture that thoughtful analysis has been marginalized in order to favor sales-inducing info blurbs and Youtube ad pitches?  Let’s face it:  you can have one-way outlets without deep content, but you can’t have deep content without one-way outlets.

    How much do you really know about Adbusters?  They’re hardly the corporate-friendly narcotic you’re imagining them to be.  A typical issue is chock full of disturbing photoessays, expose’s and articles by challenging authors.  Yes, Adbusters can be willfully misinterpreted by anyone really determined to do so.  Clue-less bookstores here in Wisconsin usually stock them in the “Art/Lifestyle” section rather than current events, for instance.  But I don’t think that the inventers of the concept “Buy Nothing Day” can be credibly accused of being card-carrying members of the Chamber of Commerce.  Not by anyone with more than a passing acquaintance with reality, anyhow.

    No, no truly populist movement will ever be sustained by legacy one-way media like print magazines alone.  But neither can it be sustained in the vacuum of deep thought that would accompany their total absence, either. 

    And I really don’t think there is any claim in this article that OWS depended on Lasn for its life existence.  Only that he and his magazine served a valuable role in artfully articulating some of its main themes.  That’s all.  I don’t see any purported descriptions of “Lasn’s frenzied schedule” of meetings, conference calls to discuss bussing in 10′s of 1,000′s of protestors or financing and arranging logistics for their encampment in Zuccotti.  I think you really need to read this article for what it’s really saying.

    I think any sophisticated reader of this article will understand that, in context, NY Times is a legacy, old-media outlet that has trouble getting past its own historical biases.  So naturally their interest was peaked by another guy whose background is also in print media, like Lasn is.  But Adbusters is clearly a very marginal property.  As I mentioned before in regard to its marketing in Wisconsin bookstores, no one takes it very seriously.

    I think your critique bumps into an important point about OWS–that OWS is a dynamic form of popular engagement that is in some ways counter to traditional media models.  But maybe you’re a little in danger of missing the forest for the trees here?  Let’s not allow jealousy to get the better of us here.  This is a cooperative endeavor, after all.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Why is it that whenever you critique someone here you have to go back and point out the actual points of your argument as they are invariably avoided, why is that?  I’m not jealous of anyone at Adbusters.  I just think they are pretentious self flagellating (white guilt) self flatulating (fart huffing) shameless marxist utopioids who promote only information which fits within their comfortable ideologies.  Hence, why I pointed out they don’t talk about the Federal Reserve, 9/11 or AGW being a bunch of bullshit pseudoscience and actually censor discussion of this material on their bullshit co opted occupywallstreet.org web site and their co opted “sexy” hashtags.  That’s what I wrote.  Can you see any of the trees I just laid out, stop pretending there not in the forest.  I’ve read Ad busters and they do cover a few things well, but sadly they are ensconsed within marxist propaganda that places the blame within the confines of “the spectrum of allowable opinion” and avoid discussion of the root causes that are truly to blame, therefore they are performing the work of a gatekeeper in my opinion.  But hey they could always prove me wrong and say report on the 10 year anniversary 9/11 hearings that happened IN TORONTO.  Or shit I dunno how about feature Joshua Blakeney who is both a marxist and a 9/11 Truther and made national headlines because of Jonathan Kay’s (The Mossad Hagiographer) hit piece.  I’m sorry to burst your bubble but don’t misrepresent the messenger buddy.   Please stop erecting strawmen and deal with what I actually said.  I never said whatever his name is was “mainstream”, also please stop inferring that someone is “jealous” because they hold a different opinion than you.  

  • Camron Wiltshire

    A few quotes from Mr. Lasn and Adbusters.  “The cost of this brave new world? Lasn recommends: “Not just a carbon tax, but a global across-the-board pricing system.” The price he gives of an “ethical” car? One hundred thousand dollars. An “ethical” tank of gas? A bargain at $250. The rich would certainly enjoy the lack of traffic.”

    http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters

    “A reporter from the Sydney Sun Herald asked Lasn whether he ever eats at McDonald’s. He admitted he did and explained, “People ask me this all the time — it’s very embarrassing — but I’m just a walking, talking contradiction. I’m not pure, and I don’t feel like I want to be all that pure.” Why Americans must be purer than Kalle Lasn is something he has refused to explain.”

    “Why do Adbusters writers and editors hate personal choice so much? Because their utopia would be a nightmare for most Americans. “What makes you think you have the right to drive around with a ton of metal wrapped around you,” asks the September/October 2003 issue, “the right to twist a tap and get hot water, the right to flick a switch and get your house warmed up?” Were the Adbusters group to get its way, hundreds of years of progress would vanish.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    And just a tid bit more about Adbusters  http://activistcash.com/organization_connections.cfm/o/36-adbusters
    George Soros’s Tide Foundation.  Tides Foundation & Tides CenterThe Tides Foundation has granted the anti-corporate Adbusters Media Foundation over $170,000 since 1996. Ironically, much of the money Tides funnels to activists comes from foundations started with corporate money, such as Pew Charitable Trusts (Sun Oil money) and the Ford Foundation.Adbusters and Greenpeace have jointly campaigned against corporate interests over global warming. Adbusters’ advertising agency, PowerShift, also produces ads for Greenpeace. “Autosaurus,” an attack on the automobile industry, was aired on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation television network, which then pulled it, citing sponsor concerns. Adbusters successfully sued for breach of contract.It’s kinda hard to question AGW when you are in bed with Green Peace and The Sierra Club.Smug alert.http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104282/smuggy-san-francisco-town

  • Camron Wiltshire

    And just a tid bit more about Adbusters  http://activistcash.com/organization_connections.cfm/o/36-adbusters
    George Soros’s Tide Foundation.  Tides Foundation & Tides CenterThe Tides Foundation has granted the anti-corporate Adbusters Media Foundation over $170,000 since 1996. Ironically, much of the money Tides funnels to activists comes from foundations started with corporate money, such as Pew Charitable Trusts (Sun Oil money) and the Ford Foundation.Adbusters and Greenpeace have jointly campaigned against corporate interests over global warming. Adbusters’ advertising agency, PowerShift, also produces ads for Greenpeace. “Autosaurus,” an attack on the automobile industry, was aired on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation television network, which then pulled it, citing sponsor concerns. Adbusters successfully sued for breach of contract.It’s kinda hard to question AGW when you are in bed with Green Peace and The Sierra Club.Smug alert.http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104282/smuggy-san-francisco-town

  • Andrew

    I’m not smart enough to understand when people explain to me happened on 9/11, but I totally agree with your first sentence.

  • FREAKpowerULTD.

    I’ve actually studied pretty much every single thing you mentioned above thoroughly. I’ve read Jim Marrs ‘The Terror Conspiracy’ and Peter Dale Scott’s ‘The Road to 9/11′, plus digital reams of info on 9/11 and I’ve also seen plenty of documentaries, a few good ones(‘Who Killed John O’Neill’ was a good one) and plenty of bad ones(‘Loose Change’ and basically anything by Alex Jones). But, I still don’t know what exactly happened on 9/11 and who exactly was behind it. It is very much like The Kennedy Assasination. Was it Johnson? The Mob? The Cubans? The CIA? We’re they all stumbling over each other to kill him? or were they helping one another? And thats where you lose me because you speak of the “truth” of 9/11. If it was called the Question 9/11 Movement I might be able to get behind it. Most truthers also seem to be tied up in libertarian politics, i.e. if we just got rid of the fed, went back to the gold standard and/or instituted the free market then everything would be hunky dory. There is nothing special about the U.S. of A and the world wasn’t a magical place before the fed came along. Slavery, oppresion, murder and deceit pretty much became the modus operandi of the emerging elite about 10,000 years ago with the rise of heirarchical civilization. Then the nation states solidified and then the colonialism and imperialism began and eventually when corporations could no longer be contained within a border any longer then globalisation got underway and now were in the end stages of global capitalism. Quite naturally, a worldwide revolution has developed of which I am thoroughly behind 100%

    My name is Hanshan Temple and I’m an anarchist. Pleased to meet you.

    BTW, I’m about 8 chapters into John Taylor Gatto’s ‘The Underground History of American Education’. Pretty illuminating. Check out Scott Noble’s documentary ‘Human Resources’ for more on the twisted history of Mindfuck Inc. It features Mr. Gatto.

    And also, Marx did have at least one good idea in that the workers should own the means of production although Bakunin was right that his solutions to the problem of capitalism(and it is most definitely a problem) would lead to bloody totalitarian dictatorships. Marxist is not a term you should just throw around.

  • FREAKpowerULTD.

    I’ve actually studied pretty much every single thing you mentioned above thoroughly. I’ve read Jim Marrs ‘The Terror Conspiracy’ and Peter Dale Scott’s ‘The Road to 9/11′, plus digital reams of info on 9/11 and I’ve also seen plenty of documentaries, a few good ones(‘Who Killed John O’Neill’ was a good one) and plenty of bad ones(‘Loose Change’ and basically anything by Alex Jones). But, I still don’t know what exactly happened on 9/11 and who exactly was behind it. It is very much like The Kennedy Assasination. Was it Johnson? The Mob? The Cubans? The CIA? We’re they all stumbling over each other to kill him? or were they helping one another? And thats where you lose me because you speak of the “truth” of 9/11. If it was called the Question 9/11 Movement I might be able to get behind it. Most truthers also seem to be tied up in libertarian politics, i.e. if we just got rid of the fed, went back to the gold standard and/or instituted the free market then everything would be hunky dory. There is nothing special about the U.S. of A and the world wasn’t a magical place before the fed came along. Slavery, oppresion, murder and deceit pretty much became the modus operandi of the emerging elite about 10,000 years ago with the rise of heirarchical civilization. Then the nation states solidified and then the colonialism and imperialism began and eventually when corporations could no longer be contained within a border any longer then globalisation got underway and now were in the end stages of global capitalism. Quite naturally, a worldwide revolution has developed of which I am thoroughly behind 100%

    My name is Hanshan Temple and I’m an anarchist. Pleased to meet you.

    BTW, I’m about 8 chapters into John Taylor Gatto’s ‘The Underground History of American Education’. Pretty illuminating. Check out Scott Noble’s documentary ‘Human Resources’ for more on the twisted history of Mindfuck Inc. It features Mr. Gatto.

    And also, Marx did have at least one good idea in that the workers should own the means of production although Bakunin was right that his solutions to the problem of capitalism(and it is most definitely a problem) would lead to bloody totalitarian dictatorships. Marxist is not a term you should just throw around.

  • Camron Wiltshire

     What do you think of Building 7?  I would suggest if you really want to understand the Truth about 9/11 to study the scientific evidence as offered by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.  I think you are missing the point with statements like, “And thats where you lose me because you speak of the “truth” of 9/11. If it was called the Question 9/11 Movement I might be able to get behind it.”  There is no one monolithic hive mind who controls the 911  “truth” movement.  Just think of it as people looking for the Truth as to what really happened.  A pretty noble endeavor by any standard of human history.  No one is saying this is the end all be all TRUTH as we are often erroneously (and nonsensically) labeled (as a way to avoid the implications and responsibility of the search) as such if you want to study the material of the Architect’s and Engineers you will definitely realize they are much closer to the “Truth” using the scientific method than the government’s comic book conspiracy theory.  Now that we’ve cleared that up, I agree there are aspects of Marxism that as a theoretical concept sound good, but the underside of this is the unspoken agreement that someone like say a Lenin, a Mao, a Stalin must be allowed to run things until the utopian inertia is overcome and however many millions are slaughtered in the mean time in order to get things up and running is simply collateral damage. It would be nice for the workers to own the means of production but it would require a seismic shift in human nature at this point and the transition period as referenced above failed miserably.  Do we still think this ism will work?  I’m more for the government being the servant of the people and nothing else.  Sadly that experiment is impinged upon by all sides by the same “elitist” families who funded communism. Glad to hear you are studying John Taylor Gatto.  Jan Irvin is doing great work over at gnosticmedia.com ensuring his material is widely available.  Thank for your reponse.  Let me know what you think having studied Building 7.

  • FREAKpowerULTD.

    Yes, I think Building 7 was controlled demolition. Building 1 and 2 not so sure. The visionary artist Paul Laffoley, who was an understudy architect on WTC, said that charges were built into the building. Did GWB know what was going on?. I don’t think so. Did Cheney? yes, I think so. And who was Mohammed Atta? What of the insider trading? What really happened at the pentagon? These are all good questions and 9/11 certainly has opened alot of eyes, but I have to reiterate that 9/11 is not the root of the problem. It happened to Americans on American soil but millions were murdered before then and millions have been murdered since.(read Zinn’s ‘People’s History’ if you never have) Ten years on, the security state is stronger now than its ever been and we are no closer to a new public hearing on 9/11. And what of the evidence? Where is the smoking gun?

    Marx(and Lenin,Stalin, Mao and Guevara, by extension) was wrong about alot of things as we both pointed
    out. Ideology gets people killed. But, the point is that authority gives a license to kill and to enslave. Its as true of capitalists as it is Marxists. The neocons and the neoliberals are most certainly highly evolved capitalists who are highly efficient at murder slavery and coercion. I am no patriot. No flag or border can contain my human spirit. I am anti-authoritarian. I bow to no government. I choose to take responsibility for myself and my community. this is the path to real freedom.

    9/11 certainly gave me a deeper understanding of the nature of the power structure but its not a fight I’m trying to win. Economic collapse, peak oil and peak other resources and above all the alarming clip at which we are destroying the biosphere and exterminating over 100 species a day on average are the issues that I’m interested in right now. Nature is primary, because if its degraded then we’re degraded. If it collapses then we collapse. Capital has to grow infinitely, but the planet is finite. Thus capitalism quite naturally is our enemy. We have to organize horizontally and spread power evenly amongst the people so it can dissipate. Decentralization is key. I think this is ultimately where the Occupy Movement is going and that is what I’m putting my energy behind right now. 9/11 is a good primer, but it is not a necessity for making these connections.

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Looks like we agree on more points than disagree.  Where did you get the figure of over 100 species per day being exterminated?  WTC 1 & 2 are a new type of demolition but surely meet all the criteria for a controlled demolition as well. (http://ae911truth.org/ Just look at the info on the right side of the page)

    The Smoking gun is the evidence of Building 7′s obvious implosion, the hundreds of eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions (caught on video as well), the thousands of experts in across the spectrum of engineering, military, law enforcement, and intelligence’s testimony and of course the unchallenged evidence for nano thermite residue found in the dust from all three WTC towers.  It’s not lack of evidence, it’s lack of awareness and will power.

    9/11 serves as The Achilles heel of the Military Industrial Complex/NeoCon coup or NWO whatever we want to call it.  Once it is exposed, everyone realizes the game has changed and will hopefully shift gears into a mode or real awakening and action to restore our collective liberties and inalienable rights as documented in the Constitution.  As nice as total freedom sounds on paper, I would prefer some law to point to in case the state comes knocking.  The world is rather small and yes Fema camps are real whether or not people choose to believe in them.  Continuity of Government, Project Doomsday and Rex 84 are all available as part of the public record so for any naysayers out there, do your homework.

    That being said we are all at a crossroads and the clock is ticking.   The OWS seems to be as nothing more than a controlled burn of the peaking populist tumult, corralled by the likes of the Soros funded Adbusters and used as a public display of state power as each weakened encampment is brought down by the DHS apparatus.  It has not served much of any purpose outside of  maintaining the left/right paradigm.  If only the  Libertarians/Conservatives and The Liberal/Democrats could realize they are on the same team before draconian measures such as seen in yesterdays passing of  Senate Bill 1867 displace the few protections we have left.  This of course is only even a possibility because of the continued cover up of 9/11.

    Sometimes we have to set our ideologies aside and see what is before we can hope to achieve any idea of Liberty or Freedom.  Until 9/11 is understood and exposed all of the sickening machinations of statist domination and control of our lives will continue.  Do we have the willingness to seize Excalibur, to utilize the same spirit of Galileo using reason and science alone to discredit the “authority” of the catholic church to dictate “reality” or “royality”.  We have the same opportunity and a greater chance do to the state of the internet now.  But if we presume erroneously, that  just because people have been murdered in the past that it some how does not require our speaking out now is a tragically naive.  Even the most hardened of anarchist compounds have no chance against the military might chomping at the bit to get all WACO on everybody.  If you think otherwise you are underestimating your adversary at your own peril.

    OWS does nothing to affect real change in my opinion.  Even now going on 3 months later there is no “one demand” anywhere from the group that amounts to anything more than the empty lip service of designer “revolution” as seen in any issue of adbusters.  Even the phrase we are the 99% does little to rectify public policy towards reformation ,but seems to serve mostly to route anger towards the corporations and banks rather than the Federal Reserve which sits upon them all enabling fractional reserve lending and debt out of nothing to continue unabated.  

    In other words controlled opposition facing down the shadow and not the substance of their en$lavement, while being divided from their Brothers and Sisters who have the same basic desires.  

    Thank you for introducing yourself, sorry I was posting late and missed  your polite offering.  Nice to meet you.  

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Looks like we agree on more points than disagree.  Where did you get the figure of over 100 species per day being exterminated?  WTC 1 & 2 are a new type of demolition but surely meet all the criteria for a controlled demolition as well. (http://ae911truth.org/ Just look at the info on the right side of the page)

    The Smoking gun is the evidence of Building 7′s obvious implosion, the hundreds of eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions (caught on video as well), the thousands of experts in across the spectrum of engineering, military, law enforcement, and intelligence’s testimony and of course the unchallenged evidence for nano thermite residue found in the dust from all three WTC towers.  It’s not lack of evidence, it’s lack of awareness and will power.

    9/11 serves as The Achilles heel of the Military Industrial Complex/NeoCon coup or NWO whatever we want to call it.  Once it is exposed, everyone realizes the game has changed and will hopefully shift gears into a mode or real awakening and action to restore our collective liberties and inalienable rights as documented in the Constitution.  As nice as total freedom sounds on paper, I would prefer some law to point to in case the state comes knocking.  The world is rather small and yes Fema camps are real whether or not people choose to believe in them.  Continuity of Government, Project Doomsday and Rex 84 are all available as part of the public record so for any naysayers out there, do your homework.

    That being said we are all at a crossroads and the clock is ticking.   The OWS seems to be as nothing more than a controlled burn of the peaking populist tumult, corralled by the likes of the Soros funded Adbusters and used as a public display of state power as each weakened encampment is brought down by the DHS apparatus.  It has not served much of any purpose outside of  maintaining the left/right paradigm.  If only the  Libertarians/Conservatives and The Liberal/Democrats could realize they are on the same team before draconian measures such as seen in yesterdays passing of  Senate Bill 1867 displace the few protections we have left.  This of course is only even a possibility because of the continued cover up of 9/11.

    Sometimes we have to set our ideologies aside and see what is before we can hope to achieve any idea of Liberty or Freedom.  Until 9/11 is understood and exposed all of the sickening machinations of statist domination and control of our lives will continue.  Do we have the willingness to seize Excalibur, to utilize the same spirit of Galileo using reason and science alone to discredit the “authority” of the catholic church to dictate “reality” or “royality”.  We have the same opportunity and a greater chance do to the state of the internet now.  But if we presume erroneously, that  just because people have been murdered in the past that it some how does not require our speaking out now is a tragically naive.  Even the most hardened of anarchist compounds have no chance against the military might chomping at the bit to get all WACO on everybody.  If you think otherwise you are underestimating your adversary at your own peril.

    OWS does nothing to affect real change in my opinion.  Even now going on 3 months later there is no “one demand” anywhere from the group that amounts to anything more than the empty lip service of designer “revolution” as seen in any issue of adbusters.  Even the phrase we are the 99% does little to rectify public policy towards reformation ,but seems to serve mostly to route anger towards the corporations and banks rather than the Federal Reserve which sits upon them all enabling fractional reserve lending and debt out of nothing to continue unabated.  

    In other words controlled opposition facing down the shadow and not the substance of their en$lavement, while being divided from their Brothers and Sisters who have the same basic desires.  

    Thank you for introducing yourself, sorry I was posting late and missed  your polite offering.  Nice to meet you.  

  • Camron Wiltshire

    Looks like we agree on more points than disagree.  Where did you get the figure of over 100 species per day being exterminated?  WTC 1 & 2 are a new type of demolition but surely meet all the criteria for a controlled demolition as well. (http://ae911truth.org/ Just look at the info on the right side of the page)

    The Smoking gun is the evidence of Building 7′s obvious implosion, the hundreds of eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions (caught on video as well), the thousands of experts in across the spectrum of engineering, military, law enforcement, and intelligence’s testimony and of course the unchallenged evidence for nano thermite residue found in the dust from all three WTC towers.  It’s not lack of evidence, it’s lack of awareness and will power.

    9/11 serves as The Achilles heel of the Military Industrial Complex/NeoCon coup or NWO whatever we want to call it.  Once it is exposed, everyone realizes the game has changed and will hopefully shift gears into a mode or real awakening and action to restore our collective liberties and inalienable rights as documented in the Constitution.  As nice as total freedom sounds on paper, I would prefer some law to point to in case the state comes knocking.  The world is rather small and yes Fema camps are real whether or not people choose to believe in them.  Continuity of Government, Project Doomsday and Rex 84 are all available as part of the public record so for any naysayers out there, do your homework.

    That being said we are all at a crossroads and the clock is ticking.   The OWS seems to be as nothing more than a controlled burn of the peaking populist tumult, corralled by the likes of the Soros funded Adbusters and used as a public display of state power as each weakened encampment is brought down by the DHS apparatus.  It has not served much of any purpose outside of  maintaining the left/right paradigm.  If only the  Libertarians/Conservatives and The Liberal/Democrats could realize they are on the same team before draconian measures such as seen in yesterdays passing of  Senate Bill 1867 displace the few protections we have left.  This of course is only even a possibility because of the continued cover up of 9/11.

    Sometimes we have to set our ideologies aside and see what is before we can hope to achieve any idea of Liberty or Freedom.  Until 9/11 is understood and exposed all of the sickening machinations of statist domination and control of our lives will continue.  Do we have the willingness to seize Excalibur, to utilize the same spirit of Galileo using reason and science alone to discredit the “authority” of the catholic church to dictate “reality” or “royality”.  We have the same opportunity and a greater chance do to the state of the internet now.  But if we presume erroneously, that  just because people have been murdered in the past that it some how does not require our speaking out now is a tragically naive.  Even the most hardened of anarchist compounds have no chance against the military might chomping at the bit to get all WACO on everybody.  If you think otherwise you are underestimating your adversary at your own peril.

    OWS does nothing to affect real change in my opinion.  Even now going on 3 months later there is no “one demand” anywhere from the group that amounts to anything more than the empty lip service of designer “revolution” as seen in any issue of adbusters.  Even the phrase we are the 99% does little to rectify public policy towards reformation ,but seems to serve mostly to route anger towards the corporations and banks rather than the Federal Reserve which sits upon them all enabling fractional reserve lending and debt out of nothing to continue unabated.  

    In other words controlled opposition facing down the shadow and not the substance of their en$lavement, while being divided from their Brothers and Sisters who have the same basic desires.  

    Thank you for introducing yourself, sorry I was posting late and missed  your polite offering.  Nice to meet you.  

21