Alan Moore Reacts to Frank Miller’s OccupyWallStreet Rant

V For VendettaA response to Frank’s Miller OWS rant found on Bleeding Cool, originally on Honest Publishing. Says Alan:

“Well, Frank Miller is someone whose work I’ve barely looked at for the past twenty years. I thought the Sin City stuff was unreconstructed misogyny, 300 appeared to be wildly ahistoric, homophobic and just completely misguided. I think that there has probably been a rather unpleasant sensibility apparent in Frank Miller’s work for quite a long time. Since I don’t have anything to do with the comics industry, I don’t have anything to do with the people in it. I heard about the latest outpourings regarding the Occupy movement. It’s about what I’d expect from him. It’s always seemed to me that the majority of the comics field, if you had to place them politically, you’d have to say centre-right. That would be as far towards the liberal end of the spectrum as they would go. I’ve never been in any way, I don’t even know if I’m centre-left. I’ve been outspoken about that since the beginning of my career. So yes I think it would be fair to say that me and Frank Miller have diametrically opposing views upon all sorts of things, but certainly upon the Occupy movement.

“As far as I can see, the Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs. I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail. I think that the Occupy movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it. I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favour of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.”

Read More: Honest Publishing, Bleeding Cool

101 Comments on "Alan Moore Reacts to Frank Miller’s OccupyWallStreet Rant"

  1. fivetonsofflax | Dec 4, 2011 at 1:34 am |

    Bravo!

  2. JohnFrancisBittrich | Dec 3, 2011 at 9:34 pm |

    Bravo!

  3. You can always count on Alan Moore for a well thought out response.

    I was sort of surprised by Miller’s original comments, considering the huge anti-authoritarian streak that ran through “The Dark Knight Strikes Again”. Miller skewered the Bush administration, had a scene with Batman plowing through(and presumably killing) secret service agents, etc.

    Frank’s just a cynical fuck. I used to say similar stuff years ago when I realized that the vast majority of leftist protester types were from upper-middle-class backgrounds. But that’s just the way things have always been in this country, and it doesn’t make it any less impressive that these people are willing to put their asses on the line for a worthy cause, even if their efforts are unfocused and somewhat misguided at times. Statements like Miller’s are usually born out of abject bitterness and shouldn’t be taken too seriously.

  4. mole_face | Dec 3, 2011 at 10:29 pm |

    You can always count on Alan Moore for a well thought out response.

    I was sort of surprised by Miller’s original comments, considering the huge anti-authoritarian streak that ran through “The Dark Knight Strikes Again”. Miller skewered the Bush administration, had a scene with Batman plowing through(and presumably killing) secret service agents, etc.

    Frank’s just a cynical fuck. I used to say similar stuff years ago when I realized that the vast majority of leftist protester types were from upper-middle-class backgrounds. But that’s just the way things have always been in this country, and it doesn’t make it any less impressive that these people are willing to put their asses on the line for a worthy cause, even if their efforts are unfocused and somewhat misguided at times. Statements like Miller’s are usually born out of abject bitterness and shouldn’t be taken too seriously.

    • Mikerscope | Dec 4, 2011 at 12:37 am |

      Having read the Dark Knight but I don’t really see much that was anti-authoritarian. Bigger dog politics mostly. And Miller seemed to be digging his memes out of cheesy TV cop dramas. I seem to recall it was Ron Raygun in office in the series’ time frame. Not to discount your point about upper middle class protesters the difference isn’t where they come from but what the have in their heads. as Otto said in Repoman, ‘That’s bullshit your a white suburban punk just like me” Isn’t it just that they have enough education to see the game (of American Life) is rigged and don’t want to play a crooked game? The higher you get up in the food chain and more you see people raised to be the puppet masters and CEOs just like their ancestors raised their children to be Knights and Dukes. Saying they are somehow entitled youth is trying to separate them out as being users themselves when the Really Rich Entitled Bastards are everybody’s enemy. It’s Venus making fun of Mars for having weak atmosphere when on the other side there’s Jupiter.

      • davisbs999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 1:34 am |

        Wow! Your comment hits the nail squarely on the head.  Well stated.

      • Liam Astley | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:47 am |

        He was referring to 2001’s The Dark Knight Strikes Again, not The Dark Knight Returns

        • Mikerscope | Dec 4, 2011 at 1:29 pm |

          i wasn’t referring to the movie and you have to take the comics all as a set. Bush wasn’t in power at the time it was written. He screwed up stuff well afterward. AM’s points on FM are accurate IMHO. I am siding with Moore on this.

    • Leftists being upper middle class is bullsh. That is Fox news stereotype. I was in the movement in the 70s and did mainstream politics recently. My family was impoverished for several years. My grandparents and parents struggled through the depression.

    • thesaddestpanda | Dec 5, 2011 at 11:27 am |

      The dirty little secret in superhero politics is that its all vigilantism and very much tied to this Ayn Rand ideal of the wealthy or gifted uber-man man doing what the government or “normals” can’t do properly. Batman is the epitome of this. Love it or leave it, its true.

      Heck, look at the Dark Knight. Miller spends a lot of ink on bashing his straw-man liberals. Do you remember the psychiatrist (draw in a Jewish stereotype no less) talking about how the Joker needs a second chance and should be granted parole? And how the audience knows thats bullshit and only Batman can save the day? That’s straight out of Ayn Rand’s playbook.

      I’m not sure why people think the Dark Knight or any of the Batman mythos is anti-authortiarian. By definition, legal heroes are just unofficial arms of law enforcement. This reminds me of this comic:

      http://www.gentletentacle.com/2011/12/1930s-superman/

  5. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 3:09 am |

    Wait, so now I’m supposed to comment on Alan Moore commenting on Frank Miller commenting on OWS? 

  6. GoodDoktorBad | Dec 3, 2011 at 11:09 pm |

    Wait, so now I’m supposed to comment on Alan Moore commenting on Frank Miller commenting on OWS? 

  7. Freelance Shamus Sam | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:04 am |

    Did he just say the majority of comics are in the “centre-right”? That’s laughable.

  8. Freelance Shamus Sam | Dec 4, 2011 at 12:04 am |

    Did he just say the majority of comics are in the “centre-right”? That’s laughable.

    • What do you think vigilantism is but assuming you are in the right and should do something, societal structures be damned? In fact, certain countries conduct their foreign policy as dictated by the Batman School Of Diplomacy.

    • Seen from a perspective outside the US, 90% of US culture is centre-right. What Americans call liberalism would be “just a tad left of the extreme right” in most other countries.

    • $19122330 | Dec 4, 2011 at 6:00 am |

      As someone who lives outside of the US  I’d agree that most American media, including comic book stories, seem to fall to the centre-right. There’s nothing laughable in that statement. It seems accurate.

    • Jin The Ninja | Dec 4, 2011 at 1:52 pm |

      unless you’re reading small press, indie or creator owned titles- by and large the narrative microcosm many many comics inhabit is quite a conservative one.

      particularly the ‘super hero’ genre which is rife with pro-war, nationalist, pro police, pro state, pro violence (nothing wrong with violence as story element, but it MUST serve a narrative purpose) propaganda.

      however, much like science fiction or horror literary genres, comic/graphic fiction as a medium, is one of the BEST vehicles for subversive, radical themes. and you do see that on occasion (Brian Wood comes to mind), but generally this alternative subtext is abandoned in favour of easily accessible commercial inerudite plots and uni dimensional ‘heroes.’

    • Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:53 pm |

      I have to assume that you take issue with the presence of the adjective “centre” in that statement. It’s likely he was trying to be somewhat diplomatic by not insinuating most mainstream (ie. DC and Marvel) comics are better than simple Fascist propaganda.

  9. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:13 am |

    What do you think vigilantism is but assuming you are in the right and should do something, societal structures be damned? In fact, certain countries conduct their foreign policy as dictated by the Batman School Of Diplomacy.

  10. Michael Moody | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:37 am |

    Having read the Dark Knight but I don’t really see much that was anti-authoritarian. Bigger dog politics mostly. And Miller seemed to be digging his memes out of cheesy TV cop dramas. I seem to recall it was Ron Raygun in office in the series’ time frame. Not to discount your point about upper middle class protesters the difference isn’t where they come from but what the have in their heads. as Otto said in Repoman, ‘That’s bullshit your a white suburban punk just like me” Isn’t it just that they have enough education to see the game (of American Life) is rigged and don’t want to play a crooked game? The higher you get up in the food chain and more you see people raised to be the puppet masters and CEOs just like their ancestors raised their children to be Knights and Dukes. Saying they are somehow entitled youth is trying to separate them out as being users themselves when the Really Rich Entitled Bastards are everybody’s enemy. It’s Venus making fun of Mars for having weak atmosphere when on the other side there’s Jupiter.

  11. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:41 am |

    Now I want to see what Dan Abnett thinks.

  12. Now I want to see what Dan Abnett thinks.

    • John Nixdorf | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:52 am |

      For the Emperor! Purge the heretics!

      • Redacted | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:56 am |

        Hey, Abnett is an A- list comic writer. He’s just been waylaid by an extremely profitable detour with his Black Library stories.

  13. Leftists being upper middle class is bullsh. That is Fox news stereotype. I was in the movement in the 70s and did mainstream politics recently. My family was impoverished for several years. My grandparents and parents struggled through the depression.

  14. 300 was homophobic and at the same time the gayest movie. Obviously made by a closet case. The psychiatrist on my team said research verifies that the most vile anti-gay people are repressing their homosexuality. Think Ted Haggard and the Rent Boy renter.

  15. 300 was homophobic and at the same time the gayest movie. Obviously made by a closet case. The psychiatrist on my team said research verifies that the most vile anti-gay people are repressing their homosexuality. Think Ted Haggard and the Rent Boy renter.

    • wow

    • Not to mention the fact that historically speaking, the REAL “300” who defended Greek Democracy were the Sacred Band of Thebes — a military unit made up exclusively of not only gay men, but specifically 150 men and their lovers. They were paired to fight under the theory that they’d fight twice as hard to protect the man they loved, and that they’d also want to look heroic by fighting hard and taking more risks. 

      This idea was basically proven correct. The Sacred Band of Thebes was legendary –undefeated for 37 years, and in their last battle (against Philip of Macedonia – father of another great gay general, Alexander the Great) it took 20-1 odds against them to finally defeat them, and they really DID die to the last man, defending democratic Athens, not fascist Sparta. (FYI, Hitler felt that Sparta was the ideal society — unremittingly cruel, supported by a slave labor force, just his kind of place).

      Meanwhile the Spartans had at least 1,500 other Greeks helping them out, and they didn’t die to the last man. But apparently they did have bigger egos, which I’m sure spoke to Frank Miller.

      • Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:13 pm |

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

        They had many other Greeks with them, but the 300 in question were most certainly Spartans, and were most certainly led by King Leonides of Sparta.

        Not to imply that 300 was historically accurate, it decidedly was not, but the inaccuracies were not entirely as you described.

        As for your characterizations of Sparta and Athens as “fascist” and “democratic” respectively… it was more like “proto-feudal” and “fascist”. Spartan society was rigidly caste-based, with the Spartan warrior caste ruling the Helot peasant caste in a system very similar to post-Rome Western Europe. Athens was a democracy only in the sense that it was ruled by the Citizens, but Athenian Citizens were, by the time Athens lost the Peloponnesian War, a minority in Athens: citizenship required multi-generational residence, extended formal military service and the ownership of adequate property. In essence, Athens was also ruled by the aristocracy, they just had a substantially larger aristocratic class.

    • Mysophobe | Dec 4, 2011 at 12:59 pm |

      Here’s a summary of the study from 1996 with links to related studies.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8772014/

  16. John Thelin | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:24 am |

    Seen from a perspective outside the US, 90% of US culture is centre-right. What Americans call liberalism would be “just a tad left of the extreme right” in most other countries.

  17. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:34 am |

    Wow! Your comment hits the nail squarely on the head.  Well stated.

  18. Now I get to comment on you commenting on Alan Moore commenting on Frank Miller commenting on OWS commenting on the USA which is also commenting on OWS

  19. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 6:54 am |

    Indeed…

  20. wow

  21. wow

  22. wow

  23. yeah this is dumb, why so many fnords

  24. yeah this is dumb, why so many fnords

  25. yeah this is dumb, why so many fnords

  26. yeah this is dumb, why so many fnords

  27. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 9:11 am |

    I think there’s too much polarization going on.  Therefore the “Right” makes a pro-tea bagger, anti-Occupy attitude that’s mirrored by the “Left”.  Frank is somehow catering to the “Right” demographic, and perhaps that gives him a “Niche” of that 23-33% that support Dubya and the Globalist bankers sending their jobs overseas on their tax money since mmmaybe they’ll be rich someday and can scr— the few remaining Americans out of the few remaining jobs by shipping their jobs overseas to get richer still…

    But I think Frank Miller is more nuts that Alan Moore in that a “Generic large middle class” is what supports “The comics market” that while it has room for all genres is generally “Leftist and progressive”.  The Globalist Banker elite is attacking this middle class, they simply need more and more and more or they collapse, and therefore he is feeding those that attack those that made him his fame and fortune. 

    Just one man’s opinion, but…
    Moore is nuts (though also crazy like a fox!) in that he doesn’t milk his fame for all it’s worth. 
    But Miller is nuts that he essentially bites the hand that feeds him.

    I like their works both, but I can like them and not “Agree” with their politics 100% or whatever.

    Frankly, Moore is the “More” talented writer/storyteller by FAR.  Miller is cool because he goes “Pulp” having wanted to make “Crime” comics and classic “Pulp” stuff in an age where “Political Correctness” destroyed it and tried to bury it.  I’m into “Pulp” working on a project myself, but I do NOT believe it somehow means I have to agree with the stinking T—d of what is now “Right Wing”…

  28. greengestalt | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:11 am |

    I think there’s too much polarization going on.  Therefore the “Right” makes a pro-tea bagger, anti-Occupy attitude that’s mirrored by the “Left”.  Frank is somehow catering to the “Right” demographic, and perhaps that gives him a “Niche” of that 23-33% that support Dubya and the Globalist bankers sending their jobs overseas on their tax money since mmmaybe they’ll be rich someday and can scr— the few remaining Americans out of the few remaining jobs by shipping their jobs overseas to get richer still…

    But I think Frank Miller is more nuts that Alan Moore in that a “Generic large middle class” is what supports “The comics market” that while it has room for all genres is generally “Leftist and progressive”.  The Globalist Banker elite is attacking this middle class, they simply need more and more and more or they collapse, and therefore he is feeding those that attack those that made him his fame and fortune. 

    Just one man’s opinion, but…
    Moore is nuts (though also crazy like a fox!) in that he doesn’t milk his fame for all it’s worth. 
    But Miller is nuts that he essentially bites the hand that feeds him.

    I like their works both, but I can like them and not “Agree” with their politics 100% or whatever.

    Frankly, Moore is the “More” talented writer/storyteller by FAR.  Miller is cool because he goes “Pulp” having wanted to make “Crime” comics and classic “Pulp” stuff in an age where “Political Correctness” destroyed it and tried to bury it.  I’m into “Pulp” working on a project myself, but I do NOT believe it somehow means I have to agree with the stinking T—d of what is now “Right Wing”…

  29. Warielchriqui | Dec 4, 2011 at 9:17 am |

    YESSSS!! SWAMP THING FTW!!!

  30. Warielchriqui | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:17 am |

    YESSSS!! SWAMP THING FTW!!!

  31. Trevor Reece | Dec 4, 2011 at 9:34 am |

    One more reason that Alan Moore is much more of a class act than Frank Miller

  32. Trevor Reece | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:34 am |

    One more reason that Alan Moore is much more of a class act than Frank Miller

  33. John Nixdorf | Dec 4, 2011 at 9:52 am |

    For the Emperor! Purge the heretics!

  34. Suddenly Spam! | Dec 4, 2011 at 9:56 am |

    Hey, Abnett is an A- list comic writer. He’s just been waylaid by an extremely profitable detour with his Black Library stories.

  35. Anonymous | Dec 4, 2011 at 10:00 am |

    As someone who lives outside of the US  I’d agree that most American media, including comic book stories, seem to fall to the centre-right. There’s nothing laughable in that statement. It seems accurate.

  36. Not to mention the fact that historically speaking, the REAL “300” who defended Greek Democracy were the Sacred Band of Thebes — a military unit made up exclusively of not only gay men, but specifically 150 men and their lovers. They were paired to fight under the theory that they’d fight twice as hard to protect the man they loved, and that they’d also want to look heroic by fighting hard and taking more risks. 

    This idea was basically proven correct. The Sacred Band of Thebes was legendary –undefeated for 37 years, and in their last battle (against Philip of Macedonia – father of another great gay general, Alexander the Great) it took 20-1 odds against them to finally defeat them, and they really DID die to the last man, defending democratic Athens, not fascist Sparta. (FYI, Hitler felt that Sparta was the ideal society — unremittingly cruel, supported by a slave labor force, just his kind of place).

    Meanwhile the Spartans had at least 1,500 other Greeks helping them out, and they didn’t die to the last man. But apparently they did have bigger egos, which I’m sure spoke to Frank Miller.

  37. He was referring to 2001’s The Dark Knight Strikes Again, not The Dark Knight Returns

  38. Island Zen | Dec 4, 2011 at 2:05 pm |

    As always I find Alan Moore brutally honest.  This is a man who approaches his life with a certain amount of dignity and experimental honesty that is rarely found in public personas today. 

  39. Island Zen | Dec 4, 2011 at 10:05 am |

    As always I find Alan Moore brutally honest.  This is a man who approaches his life with a certain amount of dignity and experimental honesty that is rarely found in public personas today. 

  40. All of the old gods of comics are dead, except Alan Moore.  Alan retained his credibility, skill, charm, and integrity, while the likes of Miller and Gaiman did not.  Thank you for posting this.  www.ApiarySociety.com

  41. All of the old gods of comics are dead, except Alan Moore.  Alan retained his credibility, skill, charm, and integrity, while the likes of Miller and Gaiman did not.  Thank you for posting this.  www.ApiarySociety.com

    • What about Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis ?

      • Hadrian999 | Dec 5, 2011 at 6:32 pm |

        well i don’t consider ellis an “old god” of comics and hasn’t morrison pretty much abandoned comics lately

        • 120daysofsondheim | Dec 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm |

          No. Morrison just finished like a 3 or 4 year run of writing Batman, Batman and Robin, a major DC Universe crossover, and probably some other stuff. His book about comic books just came out and now he’s writing the Action Comics Superman.

  42. Mysophobe | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:59 pm |

    Here’s a summary of the study from 1996 with links to related studies.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8772014/

  43. Michael Moody | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:29 pm |

    i wasn’t referring to the movie and you have to take the comics all as a set. Bush wasn’t in power at the time it was written. He screwed up stuff well afterward. AM’s points on FM are accurate IMHO. I am siding with Moore on this.

  44. Jin (仁) | Dec 4, 2011 at 5:52 pm |

    unless you’re reading small press, indie or creator owned titles- by and large the narrative microcosm many many comics inhabit is quite a conservative one.

    particularly the ‘super hero’ genre which is rife with pro-war, nationalist, pro police, pro state, pro violence (nothing wrong with violence as story element, but it MUST serve a narrative purpose).

    however, much like science fiction or horror literary genres, comic/graphic fiction as a medium, is one of the BEST vehicles for subversive, radical themes. and you do see that on occasion (Brian Wood comes to mind), but generally this alternative subtext is abandoned in favour of easily accessible commercial inerudite plots and uni dimensional ‘heroes.’

  45. Hadrian999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 7:08 pm |

    usually i think Alan Moore is a raging hypocrite  but what he is saying here is spot on, and sadly much of American entertainment is fascist propaganda. we have the beloved stereotype of the of the cop who “sees it how it is and wont let rules and sissy ethics get in his way, as a comic fan i think its funny how often the heroes are spoiled rich kids out to make things safe for the upper class like batman and ironman

  46. Hadrian999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 3:08 pm |

    usually i think Alan Moore is a raging hypocrite  but what he is saying here is spot on, and sadly much of American entertainment is fascist propaganda. we have the beloved stereotype of the of the cop who “sees it how it is and wont let rules and sissy ethics get in his way, as a comic fan i think its funny how often the heroes are spoiled rich kids out to make things safe for the upper class like batman and ironman

    • Jin The Ninja | Dec 4, 2011 at 3:20 pm |

      iron man ranks just above captain america for worst super hero of all time. the movies were terrible as well.

      • Hadrian999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 3:22 pm |

        they have actually done some interesting things with captain america before but i cant comment on the movies I haven’t seen them

        • Jin The Ninja | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:50 pm |

          save your neurons and skip it. but yes EARLY iron man (golden age) was cool in a sense, but then he became mr, america, more of a mascot, than an interesting literary character.

          • Hadrian999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 7:07 pm |

            actually somewhat recently they have used captain america to show how far we have fallen from the ww2 era in  service to the cold war and corporate greed , it’s a character with great potential and shouldn’t be hated on because of hack writers

          • Jin The Ninja | Dec 5, 2011 at 6:55 pm |

            fair enough. one of the only true super heroes i REALLY like is moon knight, and it’s just because he’s cool. other than that i prefer magic users i.e. brother voodoo/doc strange or old school titles like cloak and dagger, dazzler, or alterna titles like the runaways.

  47. Jin (仁) | Dec 4, 2011 at 7:20 pm |

    iron man ranks just above captain america for worst super hero of all time. the movies were terrible as well.

  48. Hadrian999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 7:22 pm |

    they have actually done some interesting things with captain america before but i cant comment on the movies I haven’t seen them

  49. Bleedmeanoceanx | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:03 pm |

    This was so poorly written, I initially thought that it was a joke. So, Alan Moore’s entire argument against Frank Miller is that he’s center-right, while weaving this laughably feeble psychoanalytic theory. Man. This is why I belong to neither side. There is either rampant mental retardation or widespread mental laziness. If the left wants to defeat the right in discourse, you’ll have to refrain from the kneejerk reaction to pull out the homophobic and racist labels, and actually engage them in a meaningful way. When you start calling people names, it tells me that you have no debate skills, nor do you have a point of view other than ‘against them’ without really knowing why. Ludicrous.

  50. Bleedmeanoceanx | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:03 pm |

    This was so poorly written, I initially thought that it was a joke. So, Alan Moore’s entire argument against Frank Miller is that he’s center-right, while weaving this laughably feeble psychoanalytic theory. Man. This is why I belong to neither side. There is either rampant mental retardation or widespread mental laziness. If the left wants to defeat the right in discourse, you’ll have to refrain from the kneejerk reaction to pull out the homophobic and racist labels, and actually engage them in a meaningful way. When you start calling people names, it tells me that you have no debate skills, nor do you have a point of view other than ‘against them’ without really knowing why. Ludicrous.

    • Jin The Ninja | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:47 pm |

      lol. actually alan makes a very cogent point, perhaps his writing at way above a 6th grade level proves much more challenging to some (ahem) people…

    • Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:50 pm |

      So despite that Miller’s work is a racist and homophobic, pointing it out is somehow “name calling”? He never even says that Frank Miller being center-right is a Bad Thing ™, just that he has never shared that ideology. Beyond that, even if we are to accept that Moore may have engaged in some minor name-calling, Miller refers to OWS as trash, filth and excrement… it takes some powerful equivocation to put them in the same league.

    • tooCents | Dec 5, 2011 at 6:44 am |

      I Heard that! Name calling – God I get so tired of it. I think Moore said Miller’s fans are mostly center-right. He probably thinks Frank Miller is a… homophobic racist fascist shithead doo-doo brain. Not sure. But I read Miller’s crazed, vitriolic, absurd, hate-filled rant and Frank Miller came across as a rat faced, extreme right-wing reactionary douchebag.

  51. Joe Manzo | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:30 pm |

    Who is Alan Moore, and what does he taste like?

  52. danshays | Dec 4, 2011 at 4:30 pm |

    Who is Alan Moore, and what does he taste like?

  53. Jin (仁) | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:47 pm |

    lol. actually alan makes a very cogent point, perhaps his writing at way above a 6th grade level proves much more challenging to some (ahem) people…

  54. Jin (仁) | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:50 pm |

    save your neurons and skip it. but yes EARLY iron man (golden age) was cool in a sense, but then he became mr, america, more of a mascot, than an interesting literary character.

  55. Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:50 pm |

    So despite that Miller’s work is a racist and homophobic, pointing it out is somehow “name calling”? He never even says that Frank Miller being center-right is a Bad Thing ™, just that he has never shared that ideology. Beyond that, even if we are to accept that Moore may have engaged in some minor name-calling, Miller refers to OWS as trash, filth and excrement… it takes some powerful equivocation to put them in the same league.

  56. Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:53 pm |

    I have to assume that you take issue with the presence of the adjective “centre” in that statement. It’s likely he was trying to be somewhat diplomatic by not insinuating most mainstream (ie. DC and Marvel) comics are better than simple Fascist propaganda.

  57. Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 8:53 pm |

    I have to assume that you take issue with the presence of the adjective “centre” in that statement. It’s likely he was trying to be somewhat diplomatic by not insinuating most mainstream (ie. DC and Marvel) comics are better than simple Fascist propaganda.

  58. Butter Knife | Dec 4, 2011 at 9:13 pm |

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

    They had many other Greeks with them, but the 300 in question were most certainly Spartans, and were most certainly led by King Leonides of Sparta.

    Not to imply that 300 was historically accurate, it decidedly was not, but the inaccuracies were not entirely as you described.

    As for your characterizations of Sparta and Athens as “fascist” and “democratic” respectively… it was more like “proto-feudal” and “fascist”. Spartan society was rigidly caste-based, with the Spartan warrior caste ruling the Helot peasant caste in a system very similar to post-Rome Western Europe. Athens was a democracy only in the sense that it was ruled by the Citizens, but Athenian Citizens were, by the time Athens lost the Peloponnesian War, a minority in Athens: citizenship required multi-generational residence, extended formal military service and the ownership of adequate property. In essence, Athens was also ruled by the aristocracy, they just had a substantially larger aristocratic class.

  59. Hadrian999 | Dec 4, 2011 at 11:07 pm |

    actually somewhat recently they have used captain america to show how far we have fallen from the ww2 era in  service to the cold war and corporate greed , it’s a character with great potential and shouldn’t be hated on because of hack writers

  60. Someonesname | Dec 5, 2011 at 3:50 am |

    this makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside

  61. Someonesname | Dec 4, 2011 at 11:50 pm |

    this makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside

  62. What about Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis ?

  63. Anonymous | Dec 5, 2011 at 10:44 am |

    I Heard that! Name calling – God I get so tired of it. I think Moore said Miller’s fans are mostly center-right. He probably thinks Frank Miller is a… homophobic racist fascist shithead doo-doo brain. Not sure. But I read Miller’s crazed, vitriolic, absurd, hate-filled rant and Frank Miller came across as a rat faced, extreme right-wing reactionary douchebag.

  64. Anonymous | Dec 5, 2011 at 3:27 pm |

    The dirty little secret in superhero politics is that its all vigilantism and very much tied to this Ayn Rand ideal of the wealthy or gifted uber-man man doing what the government or “normals” can’t do properly. Batman is the epitome of this. Love it or leave it, its true.

    Heck, look at the Dark Knight. Miller spends a lot of ink on bashing his straw-man liberals. Do you remember the psychiatrist (draw in a Jewish stereotype no less) talking about how the Joker needs a second chance and should be granted parole? And how the audience knows thats bullshit and only Batman can save the day? That’s straight out of Ayn Rand’s playbook.

    I’m not sure why people think the Dark Knight or any of the Batman mythos is anti-authortiarian. By definition, legal heroes are just unofficial arms of law enforcement. This reminds me of this comic:

    http://www.gentletentacle.com/2011/12/1930s-superman/

  65. Hadrian999 | Dec 5, 2011 at 10:32 pm |

    well i don’t consider ellis an “old god” of comics and hasn’t morrison pretty much abandoned comics lately

  66. Jin (仁) | Dec 5, 2011 at 10:55 pm |

    fair enough. one of the only true super heroes i REALLY like is moon knight, and it’s just because he’s cool. other than that i prefer magic users i.e. brother voodoo/doc strange or old school titles like cloak and dagger, dazzler, or alterna titles like the runaways.

  67. Meta-comment. 

  68. 120daysofsondheim | Dec 8, 2011 at 10:38 pm |

    No. Morrison just finished like a 3 or 4 year run of writing Batman, Batman and Robin, a major DC Universe crossover, and probably some other stuff. His book about comic books just came out and now he’s writing the Action Comics Superman.

Comments are closed.