Is Jesus A Cheap Imitation Of Mithras?

It’s been mentioned, but in this clip from the British show QI, Stephen Fry and co. discuss the strange similarities between the Christian savior and the far cooler and more mystical Roman/Persian god Mithras, who shares the December 25 birthday, and had twelve disciples of his own, and was birthed in the form of a mortal to a virgin mother…

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  • Jarel

    Jesus is an imitation of more than just Mithras, skip to 2:40 in this video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78&feature=player_embedded 

  • Jarel

    Jesus is an imitation of more than just Mithras, skip to 2:40 in this video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78&feature=player_embedded 

    • Rex Vestri

      Fuck jeah!  Great video(s)!   Thanks for posting!

    • aspiring

      “The Greatest Story Ever Told”  — the title of Acharya S.’s book, and the basis for the first part of Zeitgeist, and thoroughly cut down to size by Chris White in the “Zeitgeist Debunked” videos.

      Not that there aren’t corollaries… not that Mithras and Christ aren’t both Solar Deities…
      As a Gnostic Christian, I agree that mainstream Christians would benefit from waking up from the fairy tale and realize the deeper truths about Christ. While this reality check may be disparaging to followers of the Christian religion, it can actually be enlightening (in a mystical sense) to those seeking a deeper inquiry and personal experience with the Christ.

      see:
      Christ and Sophia Anthroposophic Meditations on the Old Testament, New Testament, and Apocalypse  — Valentin Tomberg

      • Anon

        A more nuanced examination of the parallels to the various regional variants on the mythic model of the dying and rising god-man can be found in Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy’s 1999 book ‘The Jesus Mysteries: Was the Original Jesus a Pagan God?’. 

        It describes the fights for dominance between competing understandings of the Jewish instantiation of that cultural trope, particularly that between the victorious literalists, who insisted upon an understanding of the various texts compiled into the authoritative account as a literal history; and the gnostics who retained an appreciation of the power of symbolism and the semantic distinction between referent and referred.

        While written more for a popular than an academic readership, it does boast 90 pages of meticulous end-notes.

        One particularly interesting point that they address, which was disappointingly absent from the QI clip, is the on-the-record reactions of various early christian fathers to the universally-at-the-time known plagiarism underlying every aspect of the Christian mythos. 

        “The early Christians were painfully aware of such criticisms [as those of second century satirist Celsus].  How could Pagan myths which predated Christianity by hundreds of years have so much in common with the biography of the one and only saviour Jesus?  Desperate to come up with an explanation, the Church fathers resorted to one of the most absurd theories ever advanced.  From the time of Justin Martyr in the second century onwards, they declared that the Devil had plagiarized Christianity by anticipation in order to lead people astray!  Knowing that the true Son of God was to literally come and walk the Earth, the Devil had copied the story of his life in advance of it happening and created the myths of Osiris-Dionysus.

        The Church father Tertullian writes of the Devil’s ‘diabolical mimicry’ in creating the Mysteries of Mithras:

        ‘The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments.  He baptizes his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras.  Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection.  Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be divine.'”

        • aspiring

          It looks like a worthy read, thank you. But I particularly like Bart Ehrman’s response (yes, I read the wiki) 


          This is an old argument, even though it shows up every 10 years or so. This current craze that Christianity was a mystery religion like these other mystery religions-the people who are saying this are almost always people who know nothing about the mystery religions; they’ve read a few popular books, but they’re not scholars of mystery religions. The reality is, we know very little about mystery religions-the whole point of mystery religions is that they’re secret! So I think it’s crazy to build on ignorance in order to make a claim like this.”

          Personally, I’ve never considered scholars to be the supreme bearers of truth. All we can truly know is our own experience. As soon as we name the experience and share it with someone, it becomes a map of the territory and not the territory – solely a reflection/ refraction or even worse distortion of the light of the truth. If you’ve only read it in a book, you truly know nothing about the subject. If you don’t understand this, I’m sorry, but you have no right to participate in the discussion. (not you, personally, Anon).

          It is for this reason I feel I can call myself a Christian without believing the bible, without going to church and for giving more of my spiritual attention to the solstice rather than December 25. 
           
          Ultimately, what I have found in my examinations of these subjects and the various reactions from various people is that if you are looking for truth, you will find truth. If you are looking for lies, you will find lies. 

          • nickdangerthirdi

            you dont have to believe the bible to be a Christian though, or go to church,  you only need to follow the teaching of Christ, thats what makes a Christian, I know plenty of people who read the bible and go to chruch every week who are horrible representatives of Christianity, at the same time I know Atheists who are more Christian like than most people who claim Christianity as their religion….

          • Adam

            Thank you – well-written, thoughtful response. 

            I can relate to this on a very personal level, as I was raised in a Christian household, and both of my parents are still “believers” and attend church regularly.  Although I understand the concern people have with “indoctrinating” children into religion, I can honestly say no such thing happened to me; as a matter of fact, my parents encouraged me to think for myself and question their faith (and all faiths, frankly), as they themselves often did (and still do).  I don’t consider myself a Christian in any sense of the word (except as part of my cultural background), and my family is not only fine with that, they think it’s a healthy part of my becoming my own person.  They do not think I’m going to hell, nor do they try to convince me to go to church, repent my sins, or accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, nor have they ever done that or thought that in regards to anyone.

    • you areALLdeceived

      you dudes are unfortunate.. truly you will see thedeception you have been in … the lies.. 
      all of you will see how satan has tried to counter fit the Christ for yrs.. you fools so unfortunate..
      GET WELL SOON
      Cause your living in Death.. Live for HIm and Receive HIM The CHrist.
      TheEnd

      • http://profiles.google.com/potter.dee Potter Dee

        How droll… We’re so past that sort of tenth century thinking it would blow your mind!

      • Atwas911

        *sets fire to you areALLdeceived*

        WASTED GREY MATTER WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!

  • Rex Vestri

    Fuck jeah!  Great video! Watch parts 2 & 3 as well.  Thanks for posting!

  • http://www.facebook.com/johnvonbittrich John Francis Bittrich

    These are archetypal “Hero’s Journey” phenomena, found in dozens of myths around the world.

  • JohnFrancisBittrich

    These are archetypal “Hero’s Journey” phenomena, found in dozens of myths around the world.

    • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

      I’m amazed at how slowly this is entering the public consciousness.

      • DeepCough

        We’re still working on the marketability of Darwin, okay?

        • Anarchy Pony

          You just can’t get the whole “we are just apes” thing past the massive egos of true believers. Their book tells them they’re special and that the world belongs to them, hard to get over such a self absorbed delusion.

          • Calypso_1

            I for one, am immensely proud to share kinship with gibbons.

          • Anarchy Pony

            They can make some impressive noises. 

          • Calypso_1

            Whoooop! Whoooooo!

            I like to think of it as song. Spent many happy childhood hours hollering with the gibbons. I wish I could brachiate.

          • Atwas911

            Exactly why the deprogramming camps should be maxed out in population. Strap them down, pry their eyes open, and let nothing but truth be played directly into their eyes from goggles strapped to their heads.

            This mental illness known as religious faith.. This infection of the mind, is of pandemic levels. We’re being invaded by violent, zombies that wish to devour our brains..

            There’s a cure.. but for some reason.. this sickness is treated with honor and respect..

            Lets hope we never begin to treat cancer or aids like we treat religious infections.

            These people are sick.. Its time to segregate them and make them well.

          • Charles Rowin

            as if anyone knows the truth. try force feeding me your truth and i will show you what is real

          • Atwas911

            oh yeah nutty? You gonna demonstrate to everyone my very point? You gonna go nuts? You gonna fly a plane into something? You gonna burn some people at the stake? You gonna blow yourself up?

            Threats from the delusional.. How.. stereotypical.

          • Andrew

            Please explain in detail exactly what delusion he has.

          • Atwas911

            The God Delusion.. Of Course.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Richard Dawkins should have just stuck to evolution. He’s brilliant in that respect. He really is  an ignorant prick in respect to The God Delusion you so very much hate.

            Also notice, he just said he would show you what is real, that does not necessarily mean he’s talking about [your naive conceptualization of] god

          • Atwas911

            Oh don’t make excuses for him. You know just as well as i do what he ment. Lets not be coy now.

          • Atwas911

            But it’s ok. :) I actually welcome delusional religious threats.. I love getting religious people pissed off enough to become violent. Hell i’ll even stand there and let them attack me..

            Sure.. Hit me all you want :D

            At that point.. and exactly according to plan.. Only two words describe what happens next..

            Justifiable Homicide.

          • Eric_D_Read

            Yes, yes; you’re the baddest motherfucker to ever walk the planet. The entire Web trembles at your every keystroke…. Now turn off your Kung Fu Panda DVD and brush your teeth… it’s time for bed.

          • Atwas911

            P.S. my response had absolutely nothing to do with Richard Dawkins or his book..  It was coincidence only. He asked a very specific question and was given a very specific answer. The fact that the answer shares the same name as a book is sheer coincidence.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            yea i figured i was reaching, but you Capitalized it.

            also, theres more complicated answers than “yes” or “no” to the question “is there a god”

          • Atwas911

            Only to a mind that has been raped and indoctrinated from birth.

          • reality

            Assuming you buy the official 9/11 story.What about the 66 million butchered under Stallin? Last time I checked religion had NOTHING to do with that? You must be a naive kid who likes to repeat everything he hears from is left wing professors and or media.

          • Atwas911

            I would say you’re a fool and don’t know the story of stalin well enough.. Religion had EVERYTHING to do with his actions. He was a TRAINED PRIEST.. That defected.. He resented his mother and hated her for forcing him into the priesthood.. He then used those tools to manipulate his people.

            Nothing stalin had done would have been possible without his religious training.

            And are you really going to pull the millions slaughtered card? lol

            You have any idea how many deaths were at the hands of the christians crusaders? All the pagans? The “Witches” burned at the stake? All the infidels that the “American Military”/Christian Crusaders are currently still KILLING?

            Please.. Just because you stop saying it’s for god and hike up an American flag in his place don’t mean it’s still not crusades.

          • Atwas911

            And no.. I am neither right or left.. that is just another false lie to manipulate the minds of the ignorant masses.. The notion that there is a difference between the two.. that either one is somehow working in the best interests of their party..

            Please.. See.. once you are programmed to believe delusional things.. All kinda retarded bullshit will fill your minds.

            You are a slave. You mean NOTHING to politicians..

            There has only ever been, and will only ever be two types of people…

            Kings and Slaves.

          • Atheist AreREALLyIDIOTs

            dude shut up u idiot.. u can say whateveru want like just every christian lacks knowledge or something… WELL WRONG.. This is definitely already heard about idiot.. its just that satan has truly deceived u idiots.. that mythra crap has been tried and THAT Is a true counterfeit of the REAL CHrist.. the end 

            dont bother writing back .. i could care less to waste time with your ignorance.. ha
            I wont see it you idiot fool.
            good bye pray that u seek truth.. and speak truth..the end. loser

          • Anarchy Pony

            Your messiah is never coming back. You will wait in vein for nothing while the world burns and all life suffers. Just the way the power elite wants you to. 

          • Andrew

            Re “I wont see it you idiot fool,” read Matthew 5:22.

          • Atwas911

            Its a shame you cant see that irony of that particular passage.

            That passage was created as a protection for the priests. Not for you..

            When the cult of christianity was first spreading.. Of course people called the preists fools.

            “Oh? A Jew Zombie Saviour? From a Virgin mother? HAHAA A TALKING SNAKE?!??! BAHWHWHWH RIB WOMEN!? ROFLMAOHAHHAHAHAHA”

            Im sure you can see why they had to outlaw the word “FOOL” very quickly.

            You poor fucking idiot.
            *shakes head*

            I’m really in awe.. I just can not believe how truly brainwashed these people can be.

          • Andrew

            Who are you talking to?  I posted that passage precisely because of the irony.

          • Atwas911

            oh my bad. I thought you were using the passage as a.. “HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A FOOL” tactic :D

          • Atwas911

            *looks at you and shakes head*

            ok.. I have to..

            *flips the switch on the electroshock machine and listens to the screams and the cries of help for his lord as his brain is slowly cooked in his skull*

            One down.. 100 million to go.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000480492140 Tony Traverso

            Christards will never ever seek the truth. They read no farther in history than their bible. There was a lot more history that came before the teachings of the bible. I feel sorry for them waiting for a messiah named jesus that may or may not have ever existed. What a waste of a life.

          • Anarchy Pony

            No one has a complete monopoly on truth, to assume that you do is the height of arrogance. 

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            my thoughts exactly

          • Atwas911

            So then by that defination, the “Religious Systems” of the world must be the most arrogant things on the planet?

          • Anarchy Pony

            See there you go, being what you claim to despise. You think you have some sort of truth which you cling to, denouncing all others as “blaspheme”. You are letting your ego run away with your judgement. Granted you may have a better hold on reality than a fundamentalist evangelical, but your attitude is the same, condemn the unbelievers. 

          • guest

            We all saw A Clockwork Orange too buddy…

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            I hear that was a wholesome family movie

          • Reality again

            Stallin, Mao, Hitler…the most ruthless men ever. NOT RELIGIOUS!!!! Wake up. In fact, all of the above HATED religion and I’m pretty sure all of the above would love your hate filled idea of “deprogramming” people.

          • TT

            Try again…Hitler was most definitely working in the name of Christ, protected by the churches in Germany, and the other 2 were religious prior to their cultural revolutions occurred and treated the communist party as a national religion…fail…

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

            “Roman Catholicism is even worse than Atheism itself, in my opinion! Yes, that’s my opinion! Atheism only preaches a negation, but Catholicism goes further: it preaches a distorted Christ,
            a Christ calumniated and defamed by themselves, the opposite of Christ!
            It preaches the Antichrist, I declare it does, I assure you it does!
            This is the conviction I have long held, and it has distressed me,
            myself… Roman Catholicism cannot hold its position without universal
            political supremacy, and cries: ‘Non possumus!’ To my thinking Roman
            Catholicism is not even a religion, but simply the continuation of the
            Western Roman Empire, and everything in it is subordinated to that idea,
            faith to begin with. The Pope seized the earth, an earthly throne, and
            grasped the sword; everything has gone on in the same way since, only
            they have added to the sword lying, fraud, deceit, fanaticism,
            superstition, villainy. They have trifled with the most holy, truthful,
            sincere, fervent feelings of the people; they have bartered it all, all
            for money, for base earthly power. And isn’t that the teaching of
            Antichrist? How could Atheism fail to come from them? Atheism has sprung
            from Roman Catholicism itself. It originated with them themselves. Can
            they have believed themselves? It has been strengthened by revulsion
            from them; it is begotten by their lying and their spiritual impotence!
            Atheism! Among us it is only the exceptional classes who don’t believe,
            those who, as Yevgeny Pavlovitch splendidly expressed it the other day,
            have lost their roots. But over there, in Europe, a terrible mass of the
            people themselves are beginning to lose their faith — at first from
            darkness and lying, and now from fanaticism and hatred of the church and
            Christianity.”

            Do not generalize Catholicism as the only form of Christianity, and btw Hitler was not Catholic he was a pure Darwinist, proof of this can be clearly found in the way he justified all the killings inferior species, which is completely against the Christian doctrine, but allowed by the concept of survival of the fittest. Yes the catholic church was in his back pocket, but if i was you I’d look into the true religion that the inner circle of the Vatican practices, let me give you a hint it is the opposite of true Christianity.

          • Andrew

            If Catholicism is worse than atheism, does God give points from moving up from Catholicism to atheism?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

            I think your missing the point, and I am not God so I am not to judge

          • Atwas911

            I actually admire Stalin.. Not for his actions.. but for his methods.

            Whether you are able to realize it or not.. Stalin was, himself a perfect example of why religion is so devastating.

            Stalin was an Atheist, yes. But what most people don’t know is.. Stalin’s mother forced him into the priesthood against his will. He learned the ways of mental manipulation though religion..

            When he took office.. He used those tools to manipulate the minds of his people. They were worshiping him as a god as he was slaughtering them by the millions..

            You cant see whats wrong with that? People so used to believing in delusional things.. that they can very easily, when manipulated switch delusion… Oh God is the god.. Oh wait.. heres some programming.. Oh no.. Now Stalin is god.. Let us worship him…

            Those poor fools.. Had they not already been pre-brainwashed to believe religion, there would have been no way he could have manipulated their minds to worship him as a god..

            It was the “seed” that he needed .. The computer’s backdoor if you will.. That lil illogical window into the world of fiction and delusion..

            The priest hood trained him well..

          • Atwas911

            and btw.. Hitler was a devout Catholic.. He even had the support of the church of rome though most of his action.. Tons of hidden nazi gold still reside in the coffers of the Vatican.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            (moved up from lack of space)

            I like how you assume anyone arguing with you is a christian stooge, some people come to different conclusions on their own.

            You probably don’t think far enough to realize why religious thinking arises in the first place or what it actually is… To you, its all just a disease to be purged (not much different from those evil religious folks purging witches, heretics, and infidels)

            The sooner you open your mind, the sooner you may be able to understand exactly where you stand in the world. (I suggest doing it before you’re 50)

          • Atwas911

            oh not at all.. I make no assumptions about anyone being a christian. He could have been a Muslim, or a Jew, or a christian, or any number of the countless millions of people who were not raised religious.. But were still brainwashed from a society that was primarily based upon the religious teachings of what ever particular area they were raised.

            I, myself, am included in that.. I was raised in a religious nutcase home.. I have no doubt in my mind that im an extremeist.. I say.. That.. in itself, is also more evidence to support my claim.. I still feel the threats of fire and brimstone.. I sill feel the same of my natural bodily functions, the shame that they are inflicted upon me by some deomic force..

            Despite my arrival to Atheism.. I can still very much feel the scars within myself, and know without a doubt that they still inflict me to this day as a result..

            What im thankful for.. I that unlike many people, did not take my own life as a result of religious abuse.. No.. I’ve accepted their teaching, accepted their abuse, accepted their wicked way, the shame, the hate, the fear the cruelty..

            But I wont be projecting that upon myself.. Oh no.. Its going right to the cause.. The REAL root of it all.. The Systems of Religion that infect this world and the mindless fool that not only follow it, but empower it by their willful compliance.

            Their attempts to rape this mind, much to their disappointment, created a weapon only to be used against them.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Case in point, the only religions you have any remote understanding of are the abrahamic religions. You yourself admit to being raised as a “religious nutcase home” where I assume you learned to not tolerate ANYONE but christians. But as soon as you realized you didn’t identify as a christian, you didn’t reject the negative teachings, you just stopped tolerating all religions (because you learned from christianity, that they all work that way…)

            You’re still infected with your disease (of course, as you say, you accepted it, like a dog with rabies). The biggest scar that you forgot to mention is the belief that mental scars never heal(self reference is important here).

            Start realizing the relativity of humanly understandable truth. The atheistic obsession with Truth forgets that Truth is a rare luxury. Alternatively they forget that any human can be a font of goodness, if they are willing.

            Learn the value of humility.

          • Atwas911

            I agree 100%

            But i have no intention of letting these scars heal.

            Hate and rage can be a powerful tool when one has declared war.

            I didn’t see anyone asking the United States to forgive and forget when they we’re hunting Osama.

            There are hundreds of millions of nameless innocent faces that have been taken throughout history at the hands of those who support, enforce, and empower the 3 abrahamic religions.

            Every blind, delusional, follower, worshiper, of those religions today, deserves to feel the guilt and the shame of that blood on their hands as they continue to love, honor, and support and enable the system that caused it.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            You’re right that hate and rage can be a powerful tool, and I do not doubt its value, but it is important to know how to wield it.

            Alternatively you can do a little alchemy and transmute it all to wisdom (but I doubt thats on the table for you)

          • Andrew

            If “truth” is a rare luxury, how do you know humans can be fonts of “goodness?”

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Thats a good question; you can take it on faith, or maybe that you can see it around you.

            But you can always be a cynic and doubt everything. Its up to you.

            It’s just one of those many issues that it is basically nonsense to ask for genuine proof that it is the Truth.

            (for all I know, maybe its false, but in that case, whats the point; just let the robots rule the world)

          • Jin The Ninja

            !!!

          • Atwas911

            *pats you on da head*

          • Jin The Ninja

            I don’t let people touch my head (cultural thing).

            And neither do i need a father or paternal condescension, but thanks anyway.

          • Jin The Ninja

            I also wanted to mention that i think it’s absolutely hilarious/hypocritical to sport a guy fawkes mask as an avatar a la V for Vendetta, when alan moore is a practicing chaos mage (and guy fawkes a catholic monarchist).

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Can i give you a noogie?

          • Jin The Ninja

            only b/c i like u:P

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Nicely said. Some Atheists are just like fundamentalist religious people. Could they be called fundamental atheists?

          • http://www.facebook.com/cees.timmerman Cees Timmerman

            No, because “atheist” means “one without a deity”. There are plenty of secular humanists that show goodness, while valuing false ideas (which Abrahamic religions are full of) over humans is evil in my book.

          • Atwas911

            Don’t like people hating religion?

            Whats the matter? Whats good for the goose is not good for the gander?

            Silly Religious fool.

            Religion.. The most hateful device on the planet.. Crying because someone don’t like them. Poor Poor delusional thing you :(

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

            The disease you speak of does not come from religion, but from your social Darwinism which you want force-feed into peoples brains. Even if looked from evolutionary perspective, religions were formed to serve the basic altruistic needs of humans. Darwinism promotes competition that when formed into a belief system causes people to tear each other down to bring themselves up. Religions that have survived to this day on the other hand share a common link which is the Golden Rule that states you should treat other like you would like to be treated yourself.

            Proponents against religion often state that wars were caused due to religion which is true partially, since most wars forged in the name of any major religions were more often than not against the religious doctrine of the faith, while Darwinism actually promotes war, in order the weed out the inferior race of human so that human evolution can can continue without these weak individuals. So look at how in WW2 the Germans justified the killing of all those Jews, Roma’s, Russians and Serbians.

            The problem is not with religion, but with people, since they make the mistake to assume that there religion is the only true one, while in reality there many ways to the top of the mountain. And I assure you if you study history and look at Wars that were waged, and then look at which ones where fought through one people believing they were superior to the other (a belief justified by Social Darwinism) and how all those wars were completely against the belief of the religious doctrine they upheld (except the pagan religions of the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Nords etc.)

            If i was you i would have a second look at the message of V for Vendetta, especially the part about the Qur’an.

            “Power through unity, unity through faith” 

          • Atwas911

            oh yeah?

            Sorry oh ye delusional one.. When the time comes.. I’ll still support any leader that’s brave enough to order you all to the gas chamber..

            Perhaps chain the doors closed of your temples on your highest and most holy days of mass as your buildings of delusion are burned down around you.

            I hope the you live long enough to feel the flame. The agony of your skin being burned from your body. Give you a real chance to feel the hell fire that you and you’re kind have threatened humanity with for the last 2 thousand years.

            To know.. that when the screams go silent.. that the sickness, has been purged from this particular location and promptly move on to the next.

            Those of faith have been torturing humanity for far too long. I think you’d be amazed at with once started, how many of your victims will crawl from the wood work aid in your extermination.

          • Trent Thompsonnn

            I agree with AnarchyPony on this one…  Just because something has been so heavily abused by the establishment and elitists throughout history doesn’t necessarily mean it’s taboo or invalid…  If you’re looking at the equation of truth and cosmology the only rational decision is neither…  Agnosticism is logically the best answer… We can’t prove nor disprove anything happened and we sure as hell can’t rely on ancient texts written thousands of years ago…  So I remain in the mindset of not knowing…  

        • AtheistBecome BELIEVERatDEATH

          mythical ha
          u idiots

      • Black Beard

        It’s not that it’s entering slowly. It’s that people show time and time again that a comfortable lie is much more preferable to a naked truth. It also doesn’t help that most books outside of religious history studies that point out such facts are generally found only in the conspiracy departments in bookshops, so as not to upset anyone, apart from the long haired oddballs stockpiling ammo and tinned food.

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          I suppose that’s true, I mean these ideas have existed for centuries, and I’ve only known about them for a few years. I suppose I have a skewed vantage point from riding  for too long this metaphorical cultural flood that has been coming out of the internet.

    • rtb61

      Well in this case there is actually a lot more to it than that. Emperor Constantine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great basically edited the Christian bible to suit the politics of the day, and ensure his power base.
      Obviously to reduce friction various elements from other religions were simply chucked in there.
      The big advantage of monotheism politically at that time, was anyone who believed any other religion was evil and could be killed ie any foreigner whose land you wished to invade and of course any foreigner who wished to invade your land. With multiple gods, there of course is always room for more.
      Keep in mind of course Mithraism was popular in the Roman military and no Roman leader ever wanted to piss off the legions unless they wanted their reign to come to a short bloody end.
      As always religions seems to have more to do with politics than with faith.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    I’m amazed at how slowly this is entering the public consciousness.

  • DeepCough

    We’re still working on the marketability of Darwin, okay?

  • Black Beard

    It’s not that it’s entering slowly. It’s that people show time and time again that a comfortable lie is much more preferable to a naked truth. It also doesn’t help that most books outside of religious history studies that point out such facts are generally found only in the conspiracy departments in bookshops, so as not to upset anyone, apart from the long haired oddballs stockpiling ammo and tinned food.

  • aspiring

    “The Greatest Story Ever Told”  — the title of Acharya S.’s book, and the basis for the first part of Zeitgeist, and thoroughly cut down to size by Chris White in the “Zeitgeist Debunked” videos.

    Not that there aren’t corollaries… not that Mithras and Christ aren’t both Solar Deities…
    As a Gnostic Christian, I agree that mainstream Christians would benefit from waking up from the fairy tale and realize the deeper truths about Christ. While this reality check may be disparaging to followers of the Christian religion, it can actually be enlightening (in a mystical sense) to those seeking a deeper inquiry and personal experience with the Christ.

    see:
    Christ and Sophia Anthroposophic Meditations on the Old Testament, New Testament, and Apocalypse  — Valentin Tomberg

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    I suppose that’s true, I mean these ideas have existed for centuries, and I’ve only known about them for a few years. I suppose I have a skewed vantage point from riding  for too long this metaphorical cultural flood that has been coming out of the internet.

  • Simiantongue

    See what happened in the days before intellectual property rights? Everyone pirated your beliefs. Now if Mithras could only have enforced ®.

  • Simiantongue

    See what happened in the days before intellectual property rights? Everyone pirated your beliefs. Now if Mithras could only have enforced ®.

  • Anarchy Pony

    You just can’t get the whole “we are just apes” thing past the massive egos of true believers. Their book tells them they’re special and that the world belongs to them, hard to get over such a self absorbed delusion.

  • Anon

    A more nuanced examination of the parallels to the various regional variants on the mythic model of the dying and rising god-man can be found in Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy’s 1999 book ‘The Jesus Mysteries: Was the Original Jesus a Pagan God?’. 

    It describes the fights for dominance between competing understandings of the Jewish instantiation of that cultural trope, particularly that between the victorious literalists, who insisted upon an understanding of the various texts compiled into the authoritative account as a literal history; and the gnostics who retained an appreciation of the power of symbolism and the semantic distinction between referent and referred.

    While written more for a popular than an academic readership, it does boast 90 pages of meticulous end-notes.

    One particularly interesting point that they address, which was disappointingly absent from the QI clip, is the on-the-record reactions of various early christian fathers to the universally-at-the-time known plagiarism underlying every aspect of the Christian mythos. 

    “The early Christians were painfully aware of such criticisms [as those of second century satirist Celsus].  How could Pagan myths which predated Christianity by hundreds of years have so much in common with the biography of the one and only saviour Jesus?  Desperate to come up with an explanation, the Church fathers resorted to one of the most absurd theories ever advanced.  From the time of Justin Martyr in the second century onwards, they declared that the Devil had plagiarized Christianity by anticipation in order to lead people astray!  Knowing that the true Son of God was to literally come and walk the Earth, the Devil had copied the story of his life in advance of it happening and created the myths of Osiris-Dionysus.

    The Church father Tertullian writes of the Devil’s ‘diabolical mimicry’ in creating the Mysteries of Mithras:

    ‘The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments.  He baptizes his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras.  Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection.  Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be divine.'”

  • Anonymous

    Well in this case there is actually a lot more to it than that. Emperor Constantine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great basically edited the Christian bible to suit the politics of the day, and ensure his power base.
    Obviously to reduce friction various elements from other religions were simply chucked in there.
    The big advantage of monotheism politically at that time, was anyone who believed any other religion was evil and could be killed ie any foreigner whose land you wished to invade and of course any foreigner who wished to invade your land. With multiple gods, there of course is always room for more.
    Keep in mind of course Mithraism was popular in the Roman military and no Roman leader ever wanted to piss off the legions unless they wanted their reign to come to a short bloody end.
    As always religions seems to have more to do with politics than with faith.

  • Anonymous

    I for one am immensely proud to share kinship with gibbons.

  • Monkey See Monkey Do

    What the host failed to say was that shaman’s and their communes used to drink or eat psychedelic sacraments and have visions of the deities such as jesus and mithras, even collective visions were attained. Authorities quickly wrote that out of the scriptures.

    • Atwas911

      and yet we continue to allow these mentally ill, sexually repressed, violent savages elect people into public office that are just as sick and twisted and repressed as them.. And yet we wonder why this country has been in major war pretty much since its founding..

      I’m just amazed that people still yet do not realize just how violent, destructive, and abusive the forced indoctrination/infection of children into these religious cults truly is.

      Allowing these nuts to rape the minds of children, then sending them out into the world to spread their infection.

      “Oh we’re a peaceful loving religion.. Never mind our holy crusades that we are still conducting, we’ll just not mention its for Jesus, and just hike up an American flag and hope no one notices.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

        No war in the history of the US was due to religion, the recent ones were all the name of money for the big corporations that actually run your country, you keep talking about religious people being ignorant, but you are the one that is only sipping from a cup of water and trying to explain the whole ocean.

        • Andrew

          Money is a religion.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

            Completely agree, but i would expand it to capitalism. Replace Gods with movie stars, and crosses with brands you get a very bad religion. Both promise happiness only one truly achieves it.

        • Calypso_1

          How dare yew suh imply The South is not a religion!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

            i bet your point is a good one, but i am not intellectual enough to understand your response so if you could please clarify

          • Calypso_1

            The reply was to indicate the shock the collective honor of the Confederacy felt when you suggested the War of Northern Aggression was not fought on most Holy and Sacred Ground. You should know that the Lord Almighty holds to his bossom the noble souls of our dead in eternal salvation.  Damn John Brown!  Damn Yankees!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

            You are probably right my knowledge on US history is definitely on an infants level, although recent US wars I am familiar with and not one of them was fought in the name of religion, in fact the tool of media was used to promote that the opposition were inferior and sub-human, which again is a belief that can only be justified with social Darwinism. 

          • Calypso_1

            The reply was to indicate the shock the collective honor of the Confederacy felt when you suggested the War of Northern Aggression was not fought on most Holy and Sacred Ground. You should know that the Lord Almighty holds to his bossom the noble souls of our dead in eternal salvation.  Damn John Brown!  Damn Yankees!

    • Adam

      I agree – there’s still a lot to be said for religious experience, the problem is that too many people try to apply something that is inherently and deeply personal to others without their permission or their desire.

      What works for you and is true for you (on a metaphorical level) does not work for everybody else, and that includes your own children. 

  • Monkey See Monkey Do

    What the host failed to say was that shaman’s and their communes used to drink or eat psychedelic sacraments and have visions of the deities such as jesus and mithras, even collective visions were attained. Authorities quickly wrote that out of the scriptures.

  • Mina

    Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th. In fact, the Bible doesn’t mention any date of his birth. The tradition of celebrating Christmas is from the time of the Romans persecuting the first Christians. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/news/2000/dec08.html

    Good news for us atheists who are tired of legitimating our celebrating Christmas to Christians.

  • Mina

    Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th. In fact, the Bible doesn’t mention any date of his birth. The tradition of celebrating Christmas is from the time of the Romans persecuting the first Christians. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/news/2000/dec08.html

    Good news for us atheists who are tired of legitimating our celebrating Christmas to Christians.

  • Atwas911

    Exactly why the deprogramming camps should be maxed out in population. Strap them down, pry their eyes open, and let nothing but truth be played directly into their eyes from goggles strapped to their heads.

    This mental illness known as religious faith.. This infection of the mind, is of pandemic levels. We’re being invaded by violent, zombies that wish to devour our brains..

    There’s a cure.. but for some reason.. this sickness is treated with honor and respect..

    Lets hope we never begin to treat cancer or aids like we treat religious infections.

    These people are sick.. Its time to segregate them and make them well.

  • Atwas911

    and yet we continue to allow these mentally ill, sexually repressed, violent savages elect people into public office that are just as sick and twisted and repressed as them.. And yet we wonder why this country has been in major war pretty much since its founding..

    I’m just amazed that people still yet do not realize just how violent, destructive, and abusive the forced indoctrination/infection of children into these religious cults truly is.

    Allowing these nuts to rape the minds of children, then sending them out into the world to spread their infection.

    “Oh we’re a peaceful loving religion.. Never mind our holy crusades that we are still conducting, we’ll just not mention its for Jesus, and just hike up an American flag and hope no one notices.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532976869 Charles Rowin

    as if anyone knows the truth. try force feeding me your truth and i will show you what is real

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532976869 Charles Rowin

    as if anyone knows the truth. try force feeding me your truth and i will show you what is real

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532976869 Charles Rowin

    as if anyone knows the truth. try force feeding me your truth and i will show you what is real

  • aspiring

    It looks like a worthy read, thank you. But I particularly like Bart Ehrman’s response (yes, I read the wiki) 


    This is an old argument, even though it shows up every 10 years or so. This current craze that Christianity was a mystery religion like these other mystery religions-the people who are saying this are almost always people who know nothing about the mystery religions; they’ve read a few popular books, but they’re not scholars of mystery religions. The reality is, we know very little about mystery religions-the whole point of mystery religions is that they’re secret! So I think it’s crazy to build on ignorance in order to make a claim like this.”

    Personally, I’ve never considered scholars to be the supreme bearers of truth. All we can truly know is our own experience. As soon as we name the experience and share it with someone, it becomes a map of the territory and not the territory – solely a reflection/ refraction or even worse distortion of the light of the truth. If you’ve only read it in a book, you truly know nothing about the subject. If you don’t understand this, I’m sorry, but you have no right to participate in the discussion. (not you, personally, Anon).

    It is for this reason I feel I can call myself a Christian without believing the bible, without going to church and for giving more of my spiritual attention to the solstice rather than December 25. 
     
    Ultimately, what I have found in my examinations of these subjects and the various reactions from various people is that if you are looking for truth, you will find truth. If you are looking for lies, you will find lies. 

  • Atwas911

    oh yeah nutty? You gonna demonstrate to everyone my very point? You gonna go nuts? You gonna fly a plane into something? You gonna burn some people at the stake? You gonna blow yourself up?

    Threats from the delusional.. How.. stereotypical.

  • Adam

    I agree – there’s still a lot to be said for religious experience, the problem is that too many people try to apply something that is inherently and deeply personal to others without their permission or their desire.

    What works for you and is true for you (on a metaphorical level) does not work for everybody else, and that includes your own children. 

  • Adam

    I agree – there’s still a lot to be said for religious experience, the problem is that too many people try to apply something that is inherently and deeply personal to others without their permission or their desire.

    What works for you and is true for you (on a metaphorical level) does not work for everybody else, and that includes your own children. 

  • Anarchy Pony

    They can make some impressive noises. 

  • Anarchy Pony

    No one has a complete monopoly on truth, to assume that you do is the height of arrogance. 

  • Anonymous

    Whoooop! Whoooooo!

    I like to think of it as song. Spent many happy childhood hours hollering with the gibbons. I wish I could brachiate.

  • guest

    We all saw A Clockwork Orange too buddy…

  • Andrew

    Please explain in detail exactly what delusion he has.

  • Anonymous

    you dont have to believe the bible to be a Christian though, or go to church,  you only need to follow the teaching of Christ, thats what makes a Christian, I know plenty of people who read the bible and go to chruch every week who are horrible representatives of Christianity, at the same time I know Atheists who are more Christian like than most people who claim Christianity as their religion….

  • Adam

    Thank you – well-written, thoughtful response. 

    I can relate to this on a very personal level, as I was raised in a Christian household, and both of my parents are still “believers” and attend church regularly.  Although I understand the concern people have with “indoctrinating” children into religion, I can honestly say no such thing happened to me; as a matter of fact, my parents encouraged me to think for myself and question their faith (and all faiths, frankly), as they themselves often did (and still do).  I don’t consider myself a Christian in any sense of the word (except as part of my cultural background), and my family is not only fine with that, they think it’s a healthy part of my becoming my own person.  They do not think I’m going to hell, nor do they try to convince me to go to church, repent my sins, or accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, nor have they ever done that or thought that in regards to anyone.

  • Adam

    Thank you – well-written, thoughtful response. 

    I can relate to this on a very personal level, as I was raised in a Christian household, and both of my parents are still “believers” and attend church regularly.  Although I understand the concern people have with “indoctrinating” children into religion, I can honestly say no such thing happened to me; as a matter of fact, my parents encouraged me to think for myself and question their faith (and all faiths, frankly), as they themselves often did (and still do).  I don’t consider myself a Christian in any sense of the word (except as part of my cultural background), and my family is not only fine with that, they think it’s a healthy part of my becoming my own person.  They do not think I’m going to hell, nor do they try to convince me to go to church, repent my sins, or accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, nor have they ever done that or thought that in regards to anyone.

  • Atwas911

    The God Delusion.. Of Course.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    my thoughts exactly

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Richard Dawkins should have just stuck to evolution. He’s brilliant in that respect. He really is  an ignorant prick in respect to The God Delusion you so very much hate.

    Also notice, he just said he would show you what is real, that does not necessarily mean he’s talking about [your naive conceptualization of] god

  • http://www.facebook.com/jlindenhofen Jason Lindenhofen

    Mithras is not only one of the major influences on Jesus as a character his Greek name is Perseus (as in Clash of the Titans) who went on to found Persia. The cult of Mithras did not take of as Christianity did because it was a Mystery Cult which meant only select men could join in and be educated but Christianity was opened to all including the poor, women, and children which…if you think about it…any religion that says, “Your life sucks, I know it does but we promise you the more poor you are today the richer you will be when your dead.” has vast appeal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jlindenhofen Jason Lindenhofen

    Mithras is not only one of the major influences on Jesus as a character his Greek name is Perseus (as in Clash of the Titans) who went on to found Persia. The cult of Mithras did not take of as Christianity did because it was a Mystery Cult which meant only select men could join in and be educated but Christianity was opened to all including the poor, women, and children which…if you think about it…any religion that says, “Your life sucks, I know it does but we promise you the more poor you are today the richer you will be when your dead.” has vast appeal.

  • Kyirishgirl75

    So many people refuse to accept that Christianity is basically just a bastardization of pagan and ancient beliefs…

  • Kyirishgirl75

    So many people refuse to accept that Christianity is basically just a bastardization of pagan and ancient beliefs…

  • reality

    Assuming you buy the official 9/11 story.What about the 66 million butchered under Stallin? Last time I checked religion had NOTHING to do with that? You must be a naive kid who likes to repeat everything he hears from is left wing professors and or media.

  • Reality again

    Stallin, Mao, Hitler…the most ruthless men ever. NOT RELIGIOUS!!!! Wake up. In fact, all of the above HATED religion and I’m pretty sure all of the above would love your hate filled idea of “deprogramming” people.

  • TT

    Try again…Hitler was most definitely working in the name of Christ, protected by the churches in Germany, and the other 2 were religious prior to their cultural revolutions occurred and treated the communist party as a national religion…fail…

  • Atwas911

    I actually admire Stalin.. Not for his actions.. but for his methods.

    Whether you are able to realize it or not.. Stalin was, himself a perfect example of why religion is so devastating.

    Stalin was an Atheist, yes. But what most people don’t know is.. Stalin’s mother forced him into the priesthood against his will. He learned the ways of mental manipulation though religion..

    When he took office.. He used those tools to manipulate the minds of his people. They were worshiping him as a god as he was slaughtering them by the millions..

    You cant see whats wrong with that? People so used to believing in delusional things.. that they can very easily, when manipulated switch delusion… Oh God is the god.. Oh wait.. heres some programming.. Oh no.. Now Stalin is god.. Let us worship him…

    Those poor fools.. Had they not already been pre-brainwashed to believe religion, there would have been no way he could have manipulated their minds to worship him as a god..

    It was the “seed” that he needed .. The computer’s backdoor if you will.. That lil illogical window into the world of fiction and delusion..

    The priest hood trained him well..

  • Atwas911

    and btw.. Hitler was a devout Catholic.. He even had the support of the church of rome though most of his action.. Tons of hidden nazi gold still reside in the coffers of the Vatican.

  • Atwas911

    I would say you’re a fool and don’t know the story of stalin well enough.. Religion had EVERYTHING to do with his actions. He was a TRAINED PRIEST.. That defected.. He resented his mother and hated her for forcing him into the priesthood.. He then used those tools to manipulate his people.

    Nothing stalin had done would have been possible without his religious training.

    And are you really going to pull the millions slaughtered card? lol

    You have any idea how many deaths were at the hands of the christians crusaders? All the pagans? The “Witches” burned at the stake? All the infidels that the “American Military”/Christian Crusaders are currently still KILLING?

    Please.. Just because you stop saying it’s for god and hike up an American flag in his place don’t mean it’s still not crusades.

  • Atwas911

    Oh don’t make excuses for him. You know just as well as i do what he ment. Lets not be coy now.

  • Atwas911

    P.S. my response had absolutely nothing to do with Richard Dawkins or his book..  It was coincidence only. He asked a very specific question and was given a very specific answer. The fact that the answer shares the same name as a book is sheer coincidence.

  • Atwas911

    But it’s ok. :) I actually welcome delusional religious threats.. I love getting religious people pissed off enough to become violent. Hell i’ll even stand there and let them attack me..

    Sure.. Hit me all you want :D

    At that point.. and exactly according to plan.. Only two words describe what happens next..

    Justifiable Homicide.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    yea i figured i was reaching, but you Capitalized it.

    also, theres more complicated answers than “yes” or “no” to the question “is there a god”

  • Atwas911

    Only to a mind that has been raped and indoctrinated from birth.

  • Atwas911

    And no.. I am neither right or left.. that is just another false lie to manipulate the minds of the ignorant masses.. The notion that there is a difference between the two.. that either one is somehow working in the best interests of their party..

    Please.. See.. once you are programmed to believe delusional things.. All kinda retarded bullshit will fill your minds.

    You are a slave. You mean NOTHING to politicians..

    There has only ever been, and will only ever be two types of people…

    Kings and Slaves.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    (moved up from lack of space)

    I like how you assume anyone arguing with you is a christian stooge, some people come to different conclusions on their own.

    You probably don’t think far enough to realize why religious thinking arises in the first place or what it actually is… To you, its all just a disease to be purged (not much different from those evil religious folks purging witches, heretics, and infidels)

    The sooner you open your mind, the sooner you may be able to understand exactly where you stand in the world. (I suggest doing it before you’re 50)

  • Atwas911

    oh not at all.. I make no assumptions about anyone being a christian. He could have been a Muslim, or a Jew, or a christian, or any number of the countless millions of people who were not raised religious.. But were still brainwashed from a society that was primarily based upon the religious teachings of what ever particular area they were raised.

    I, myself, am included in that.. I was raised in a religious nutcase home.. I have no doubt in my mind that im an extremeist.. I say.. That.. in itself, is also more evidence to support my claim.. I still feel the threats of fire and brimstone.. I sill feel the same of my natural bodily functions, the shame that they are inflicted upon me by some deomic force..

    Despite my arrival to Atheism.. I can still very much feel the scars within myself, and know without a doubt that they still inflict me to this day as a result..

    What im thankful for.. I that unlike many people, did not take my own life as a result of religious abuse.. No.. I’ve accepted their teaching, accepted their abuse, accepted their wicked way, the shame, the hate, the fear the cruelty..

    But I wont be projecting that upon myself.. Oh no.. Its going right to the cause.. The REAL root of it all.. The Systems of Religion that infect this world and the mindless fool that not only follow it, but empower it by their willful compliance.

    Their attempts to rape this mind, much to their disappointment, created a weapon only to be used against them.

  • Atwas911

    Don’t like people hating religion?

    Whats the matter? Whats good for the goose is not good for the gander?

    Silly Religious fool.

    Religion.. The most hateful device on the planet.. Crying because someone don’t like them. Poor Poor delusional thing you :(

  • Atwas911

    So then by that defination, the “Religious Systems” of the world must be the most arrogant things on the planet?

  • Anonymous

    Yes, yes; you’re the baddest motherfucker to ever walk the planet. The entire Web trembles at your every keystroke…. Now turn off your Kung Fu Panda DVD and brush your teeth… it’s time for bed.

  • idiotic sour atheist ha

    ur a idiot

  • idiotic sour atheist ha

    ur a idiot

  • AtheistBecome BELIEVERatDEATH

    mythical ha
    u idiots

  • Atheist AreREALLyIDIOTs

    dude shut up u idiot.. u can say whateveru want like just every christian lacks knowledge or something… WELL WRONG.. This is definitely already heard about idiot.. its just that satan has truly deceived u idiots.. that mythra crap has been tried and THAT Is a true counterfeit of the REAL CHrist.. the end 

    dont bother writing back .. i could care less to waste time with your ignorance.. ha
    I wont see it you idiot fool.
    good bye pray that u seek truth.. and speak truth..the end. loser

  • you areALLdeceived

    you dudes are unfortunate.. truly you will see thedeception you have been in … the lies.. 
    all of you will see how satan has tried to counter fit the Christ for yrs.. you fools so unfortunate..
    GET WELL SOON
    Cause your living in Death.. Live for HIm and Receive HIM The CHrist.
    TheEnd

  • Monkey See Monkey Do

    Nicely said. Some Atheists are just like fundamentalist religious people. Could they be called fundamental atheists?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jai-Ankers/100000395755973 Jai Ankers

    Jesus is just the sun, personified as a man. Thought you all knew this?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jai-Ankers/100000395755973 Jai Ankers

    Jesus is just the sun, personified as a man. Thought you all knew this?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bobbie-Jean-Pentecost/100000391760333 Bobbie Jean Pentecost

    Why do people even care? How about we focus on reality, ya know, shit that ACTUALLY EXISTS. 

  • bobbiethejean

    Why do people even care? How about we focus on reality, ya know, shit that ACTUALLY EXISTS. 

    • Andrew

      Because what actually exists is shit!

  • Andrew

    Because what actually exists is shit!

  • Anarchy Pony

    See there you go, being what you claim to despise. You think you have some sort of truth which you cling to, denouncing all others as “blaspheme”. You are letting your ego run away with your judgement. Granted you may have a better hold on reality than a fundamentalist evangelical, but your attitude is the same, condemn the unbelievers. 

  • Anarchy Pony

    Your messiah is never coming back. You will wait in vein for nothing while the world burns and all life suffers. Just the way the power elite wants you to. 

  • Andrew

    Re “I wont see it you idiot fool,” read Matthew 5:22.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Case in point, the only religions you have any remote understanding of are the abrahamic religions. You yourself admit to being raised as a “religious nutcase home” where I assume you learned to not tolerate ANYONE but christians. But as soon as you realized you didn’t identify as a christian, you didn’t reject the negative teachings, you just stopped tolerating all religions (because you learned from christianity, that they all work that way…)

    You’re still infected with your disease (of course, as you say, you accepted it, like a dog with rabies). The biggest scar that you forgot to mention is the belief that mental scars never heal(self reference is important here).

    Start realizing the relativity of humanly understandable truth. The atheistic obsession with Truth forgets that Truth is a rare luxury. Alternatively they forget that any human can be a font of goodness, if they are willing.

    Learn the value of humility.

  • Atwas911

    I agree 100%

    But i have no intention of letting these scars heal.

    Hate and rage can be a powerful tool when one has declared war.

    I didn’t see anyone asking the United States to forgive and forget when they we’re hunting Osama.

    There are hundreds of millions of nameless innocent faces that have been taken throughout history at the hands of those who support, enforce, and empower the 3 abrahamic religions.

    Every blind, delusional, follower, worshiper, of those religions today, deserves to feel the guilt and the shame of that blood on their hands as they continue to love, honor, and support and enable the system that caused it.

  • Atwas911

    *looks at you and shakes head*

    ok.. I have to..

    *flips the switch on the electroshock machine and listens to the screams and the cries of help for his lord as his brain is slowly cooked in his skull*

    One down.. 100 million to go.

  • Atwas911

    Its a shame you cant see that irony of that particular passage.

    That passage was created as a protection for the priests. Not for you..

    When the cult of christianity was first spreading.. Of course people called the preists fools.

    “Oh? A Jew Zombie Saviour? From a Virgin mother? HAHAA A TALKING SNAKE?!??! BAHWHWHWH RIB WOMEN!? ROFLMAOHAHHAHAHAHA”

    Im sure you can see why they had to outlaw the word “FOOL” very quickly.

    You poor fucking idiot.
    *shakes head*

    I’m really in awe.. I just can not believe how truly brainwashed these people can be.

  • Andrew

    If “truth” is a rare luxury, how do you know humans can be fonts of “goodness?”

  • Jin (仁)

    !!!

  • Atwas911

    *pats you on da head*

  • Jin (仁)

    I don’t let people touch my head (cultural thing).

    And neither do i need a father or paternal condescension, but thanks anyway.

  • Andrew

    Who are you talking to?  I posted that passage precisely because of the irony.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000480492140 Tony Traverso

    Christards will never ever seek the truth. They read no farther in history than their bible. There was a lot more history that came before the teachings of the bible. I feel sorry for them waiting for a messiah named jesus that may or may not have ever existed. What a waste of a life.

  • Atwas911

    oh my bad. I thought you were using the passage as a.. “HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A FOOL” tactic :D

  • Jin (仁)

    I also wanted to mention that i think it’s absolutely hilarious/hypocritical to sport a guy fawkes mask as an avatar a la V for Vendetta, when alan moore is a practicing chaos mage (and guy fawkes a catholic monarchist).

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    I hear that was a wholesome family movie

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Thats a good question; you can take it on faith, or maybe that you can see it around you.

    But you can always be a cynic and doubt everything. Its up to you.

    It’s just one of those many issues that it is basically nonsense to ask for genuine proof that it is the Truth.

    (for all I know, maybe its false, but in that case, whats the point; just let the robots rule the world)

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Can i give you a noogie?

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    You’re right that hate and rage can be a powerful tool, and I do not doubt its value, but it is important to know how to wield it.

    Alternatively you can do a little alchemy and transmute it all to wisdom (but I doubt thats on the table for you)

  • Jin (仁)

    only b/c i like u:P

  • http://profiles.google.com/potter.dee Potter Dee

    How droll… We’re so past that sort of tenth century thinking it would blow your mind!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    The disease you speak of does not come from religion, but from your social Darwinism which you want force-feed into peoples brains. Even if looked from evolutionary perspective, religions were formed to serve the basic altruistic needs of humans. Darwinism promotes competition that when formed into a belief system causes people to tear each other down to bring themselves up. Religions that have survived to this day on the other hand share a common link which is the Golden Rule that states you should treat other like you would like to be treated yourself.

    Proponents against religion often state that wars were caused due to religion which is true partially, since most wars forged in the name of any major religions were more often than not against the religious doctrine of the faith, while Darwinism actually promotes war, in order the weed out the inferior race of human so that human evolution can can continue without these weak individuals. So look at how in WW2 the Germans justified the killing of all those Jews, Roma’s, Russians and Serbians.

    The problem is not with religion, but with people, since they make the mistake to assume that there religion is the only true one, while in reality there many ways to the top of the mountain. And I assure you if you study history and look at Wars that were waged, and then look at which ones where fought through one people believing they were superior to the other (a belief justified by Social Darwinism) and how all those wars were completely against the belief of the religious doctrine they upheld (except the pagan religions of the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Nords etc.)

    If i was you i would have a second look at the message of V for Vendetta, especially the part about the Qur’an.

    “Power through unity, unity through faith” 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    “Roman Catholicism is even worse than Atheism itself, in my opinion! Yes, that’s my opinion! Atheism only preaches a negation, but Catholicism goes further: it preaches a distorted Christ,
    a Christ calumniated and defamed by themselves, the opposite of Christ!
    It preaches the Antichrist, I declare it does, I assure you it does!
    This is the conviction I have long held, and it has distressed me,
    myself… Roman Catholicism cannot hold its position without universal
    political supremacy, and cries: ‘Non possumus!’ To my thinking Roman
    Catholicism is not even a religion, but simply the continuation of the
    Western Roman Empire, and everything in it is subordinated to that idea,
    faith to begin with. The Pope seized the earth, an earthly throne, and
    grasped the sword; everything has gone on in the same way since, only
    they have added to the sword lying, fraud, deceit, fanaticism,
    superstition, villainy. They have trifled with the most holy, truthful,
    sincere, fervent feelings of the people; they have bartered it all, all
    for money, for base earthly power. And isn’t that the teaching of
    Antichrist? How could Atheism fail to come from them? Atheism has sprung
    from Roman Catholicism itself. It originated with them themselves. Can
    they have believed themselves? It has been strengthened by revulsion
    from them; it is begotten by their lying and their spiritual impotence!
    Atheism! Among us it is only the exceptional classes who don’t believe,
    those who, as Yevgeny Pavlovitch splendidly expressed it the other day,
    have lost their roots. But over there, in Europe, a terrible mass of the
    people themselves are beginning to lose their faith — at first from
    darkness and lying, and now from fanaticism and hatred of the church and
    Christianity.”

    Do not generalize Catholicism as the only form of Christianity, and btw Hitler was not Catholic he was a pure Darwinist, proof of this can be clearly found in the way he justified all the killings inferior species, which is completely against the Christian doctrine, but allowed by the concept of survival of the fittest. Yes the catholic church was in his back pocket, but if i was you I’d look into the true religion that the inner circle of the Vatican practices, let me give you a hint it is the opposite of true Christianity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    No war in the history of the US was due to religion, the recent ones were all the name of money for the big corporations that actually run your country, you keep talking about religious people being ignorant, but you are the one that is only sipping from a cup of water and trying to explain the whole ocean.

  • Andrew

    Money is a religion.

  • Andrew

    Money is a religion.

  • Andrew

    If Catholicism is worse than atheism, does God give points from moving up from Catholicism to atheism?

  • Andrew

    If Catholicism is worse than atheism, does God give points from moving up from Catholicism to atheism?

  • Anonymous

    How dare yew suh imply The South is not a religion!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    I think your missing the point, and I am not God so I am not to judge

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    Completely agree, but i would expand it to capitalism. Replace Gods with movie stars, and crosses with brands you get a very bad religion. Both promise happiness only one truly achieves it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    i bet your point is a good one, but i am not intellectual enough to understand your response so if you could please clarify

  • Anonymous

    The reply was to indicate the shock the collective honor of the Confederacy felt when you suggested the War of Northern Aggression was not fought on most Holy and Sacred Ground. You should know that the Lord Almighty holds to his bossom the noble souls of our dead in eternal salvation.  Damn John Brown!  Damn Yankees!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vladimir-Rakic/515057908 Vladimir Rakic

    You are probably right my knowledge on US history is definitely on an infants level, although recent US wars I am familiar with and not one of them was fought in the name of religion, in fact the tool of media was used to promote that the opposition were inferior and sub-human, which again is a belief that can only be justified with social Darwinism. 

  • Atwas911

    oh yeah?

    Sorry oh ye delusional one.. When the time comes.. I’ll still support any leader that’s brave enough to order you all to the gas chamber..

    Perhaps chain the doors closed of your temples on your highest and most holy days of mass as your buildings of delusion are burned down around you.

    I hope the you live long enough to feel the flame. The agony of your skin being burned from your body. Give you a real chance to feel the hell fire that you and you’re kind have threatened humanity with for the last 2 thousand years.

    To know.. that when the screams go silent.. that the sickness, has been purged from this particular location and promptly move on to the next.

    Those of faith have been torturing humanity for far too long. I think you’d be amazed at with once started, how many of your victims will crawl from the wood work aid in your extermination.

  • Anonymous

    Point. This is important stuff for breaking down cultural beliefs of the western world.

    Great post.

  • Detaljetrods

    Point. This is important stuff for breaking down cultural beliefs of the western world.

    Great post.

  • Jose Nungaray

    The Church of God observes December 25 to uplift JesusChrist, but we are very well aware that He wasn’t born on this day. Jesus was,is and will be a real person, unlike Mithras, a fictitious pagan character. If Mithras was real, how come  “he” didn’t survive the test of time? over 2000 years and Jesus is preached, taught, and worshiped by billions that trust and believe in His death and resurection. No one in the history of men kind is more real than the living SON of God, Lord and Saviour of all who believe in HIM. May God bless you

  • Jose Nungaray

    The Church of God observes December 25 to uplift JesusChrist, but we are very well aware that He wasn’t born on this day. Jesus was,is and will be a real person, unlike Mithras, a fictitious pagan character. If Mithras was real, how come  “he” didn’t survive the test of time? over 2000 years and Jesus is preached, taught, and worshiped by billions that trust and believe in His death and resurection. No one in the history of men kind is more real than the living SON of God, Lord and Saviour of all who believe in HIM. May God bless you

  • Trent Thompsonnn

    I agree with AnarchyPony on this one…  Just because something has been so heavily abused by the establishment and elitists throughout history doesn’t necessarily mean it’s taboo or invalid…  If you’re looking at the equation of truth and cosmology the only rational decision is neither…  Agnosticism is logically the best answer… We can’t prove nor disprove anything happened and we sure as hell can’t rely on ancient texts written thousands of years ago…  So I remain in the mindset of not knowing…  

  • Trent Thompsonnn

    I agree with AnarchyPony on this one…  Just because something has been so heavily abused by the establishment and elitists throughout history doesn’t necessarily mean it’s taboo or invalid…  If you’re looking at the equation of truth and cosmology the only rational decision is neither…  Agnosticism is logically the best answer… We can’t prove nor disprove anything happened and we sure as hell can’t rely on ancient texts written thousands of years ago…  So I remain in the mindset of not knowing…  

  • Trent Thompsonnn

    I agree with AnarchyPony on this one…  Just because something has been so heavily abused by the establishment and elitists throughout history doesn’t necessarily mean it’s taboo or invalid…  If you’re looking at the equation of truth and cosmology the only rational decision is neither…  Agnosticism is logically the best answer… We can’t prove nor disprove anything happened and we sure as hell can’t rely on ancient texts written thousands of years ago…  So I remain in the mindset of not knowing…  

  • Trent Thompsonnn

    I agree with AnarchyPony on this one…  Just because something has been so heavily abused by the establishment and elitists throughout history doesn’t necessarily mean it’s taboo or invalid…  If you’re looking at the equation of truth and cosmology the only rational decision is neither…  Agnosticism is logically the best answer… We can’t prove nor disprove anything happened and we sure as hell can’t rely on ancient texts written thousands of years ago…  So I remain in the mindset of not knowing…  

  • Trent Thompsonnn

    I agree with AnarchyPony on this one…  Just because something has been so heavily abused by the establishment and elitists throughout history doesn’t necessarily mean it’s taboo or invalid…  If you’re looking at the equation of truth and cosmology the only rational decision is neither…  Agnosticism is logically the best answer… We can’t prove nor disprove anything happened and we sure as hell can’t rely on ancient texts written thousands of years ago…  So I remain in the mindset of not knowing…  

  • http://www.facebook.com/cees.timmerman Cees Timmerman

    No, because “atheist” means “one without a deity”. There are plenty of secular humanists that show goodness, while valuing false ideas (which Abrahamic religions are full of) over humans is evil in my book.

  • Atwas911

    *sets fire to you areALLdeceived*

    WASTED GREY MATTER WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!

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