What Is Coming After Capitalism?

futureNothing developed by humans can withstand the test of time forever, and that includes capitalism. Via Jacobin Magazine, Pete Frase spins four possible scenarios, including the utopian, the distopian and the in-between, based on whether we run out of natural resources and whether machines take over all labor:

One thing we can be certain of is that capitalism will end. Maybe not soon, but probably before too long; humanity has never before managed to craft an eternal social system, after all, and capitalism is a notably more precarious and volatile order than most of those that preceded it.

The very existence of Occupy Wall Street suggests that the end of capitalism has become a bit easier to imagine of late. At first, this imagining took a mostly grim and dystopian form: at the height of the financial crisis, with the global economy seemingly in full collapse, the end of capitalism looked like it might be the beginning of a period of anarchic violence and misery. And still it might, with the Eurozone teetering on the edge of collapse as I write. But more recently, the spread of global protest from Cairo to Madrid to Madison to Wall Street has given the Left some reason to timidly raise its hopes for a better future after capitalism.

Rosa Luxemburg, reacting to the beginnings of World War I, cited a line from Engels: “Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism.” In that spirit I offer a thought experiment, an attempt to make sense of our possible futures. These are a few of the socialisms we may reach if a resurgent Left is successful, and the barbarisms we may be consigned to if we fail …

Read the rest at Jacobin

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  • Tchoutoye

    I long for the day when robots will free us from the chores of consuming.

  • Anonymous

    I long for the day when robots will free us from the chores of consuming.

  • Lokisway

    These are hardly the other alternatives. Third Way thinkers such as Guillaume Faye and Alain Deboist have been discussing options that move beyond capitalism and marxism/socialism for some period, especially considering that both began in French Revolution thinking.

  • Lokisway

    These are hardly the other alternatives. Third Way thinkers such as Guillaume Faye and Alain Deboist have been discussing options that move beyond capitalism and marxism/socialism for some period, especially considering that both began in French Revolution thinking.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bruce-Miller/100000952005408 Bruce Miller

    Will a new variation on American vulture Capitalism emerge with the new and rising Pan Eurasian Empire ? Will this new system be more brutal, more efficient, more inhumane or less? An unmanipulated Chinese Yuan (since 2008) and higher productivity there of “real wealth” over the paper shuffling corruption the U.S. fortunes are based on, seems to show fewer white shirts riding on the backs of labor, a good sign? For now?  Will this new Empire far overshadow the nonsensical saber rattling, WWII style battlefield seeking, oil hungry U.S. Empire, defeat the U.S. on the real battlefield, the economic battlefield of the world? Will China’s intelligentsia with help from Bill Gates, resolve the uranium fissioning conundrum of ever increasing humanocidal waste and eventually establish Thorium fusion as a cheaper, safer, path towards nuclear energy? Especially in light of the monument and simultaneously the tombstone to the American Nuclear Establishment at Fuckoshima?
    Winds of time are shifting, Middle East, repainting, Russia gathering steam, co-operative entanglements with China, and other neighbors, U.S. fortunes waning, Vietnam, fully communist now and thriving, trading with China. Europe flounders in debt, even China does not bale them out. Alliances with Great Brittan now meaningless economically, scientifically – proof that system failed the common folk. South America prospers, even Latin America shows promise, real wealth yet to be stolen by Americans. Americans, fatter assed than all other mankind, bigger bone – structures than ever seen before in a single population, find their diet condemned by health experts from all other nations, life expectanciea actually dropping, productivity falling, cost of living rising, needed paradigm shifts strongly resisted – even to the death? Iceland recuperating, lesson learned, taught by unscrupulous Americans as the whole world watched, took heed. Will Canada’s Harper fall into the same traps? Bought American jets for cheap – no engines, no instructions, require American military personnel to fly, maintain, no software included, at what cost? undisclosed by a shamed conservative party?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bruce-Miller/100000952005408 Bruce Miller

    Will a new variation on American vulture Capitalism emerge with the new and rising Pan Eurasian Empire ? Will this new system be more brutal, more efficient, more inhumane or less? An unmanipulated Chinese Yuan (since 2008) and higher productivity there of “real wealth” over the paper shuffling corruption the U.S. fortunes are based on, seems to show fewer white shirts riding on the backs of labor, a good sign? For now?  Will this new Empire far overshadow the nonsensical saber rattling, WWII style battlefield seeking, oil hungry U.S. Empire, defeat the U.S. on the real battlefield, the economic battlefield of the world? Will China’s intelligentsia with help from Bill Gates, resolve the uranium fissioning conundrum of ever increasing humanocidal waste and eventually establish Thorium fusion as a cheaper, safer, path towards nuclear energy? Especially in light of the monument and simultaneously the tombstone to the American Nuclear Establishment at Fuckoshima?
    Winds of time are shifting, Middle East, repainting, Russia gathering steam, co-operative entanglements with China, and other neighbors, U.S. fortunes waning, Vietnam, fully communist now and thriving, trading with China. Europe flounders in debt, even China does not bale them out. Alliances with Great Brittan now meaningless economically, scientifically – proof that system failed the common folk. South America prospers, even Latin America shows promise, real wealth yet to be stolen by Americans. Americans, fatter assed than all other mankind, bigger bone – structures than ever seen before in a single population, find their diet condemned by health experts from all other nations, life expectanciea actually dropping, productivity falling, cost of living rising, needed paradigm shifts strongly resisted – even to the death? Iceland recuperating, lesson learned, taught by unscrupulous Americans as the whole world watched, took heed. Will Canada’s Harper fall into the same traps? Bought American jets for cheap – no engines, no instructions, require American military personnel to fly, maintain, no software included, at what cost? undisclosed by a shamed conservative party?

  • Thezeitgeistmovement

    The best approach to global problem solving I have come across is a Resource Based Economy, here is an excerpt from The Venus Project’s site -

    “Resource Based Economy

    The term and meaning of a Resource Based Economy was originated by Jacque Fresco. It is a holistic socio-economic
    system in which all goods and services are available without the use of
    money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All
    resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just
    a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the
    Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing
    resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive
    to our survival.

    Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make
    available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our
    educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable,
    non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy,
    everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the
    amenities of a high technological society.

    A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the
    land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the
    lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather
    than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and
    provide a high standard of living for all.

    Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the
    US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly
    overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a
    year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough
    funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we
    did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have
    more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled
    the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the
    war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

    In a resource-based economy all of the world’s resources are held as
    the common heritage of all of Earth’s people, thus eventually outgrowing
    the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is
    the unifying imperative.”

    http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy

    • Tribu

      Suicidal way of life and then what ? really irrational solution, knowing how humans are ambitious and americans, it will cause a world war because everyone will think that “what i have is not enough, I need more and more because ressources are “infinite” ” Stupid management solution 

  • Thezeitgeistmovement

    The best approach to global problem solving I have come across is a Resource Based Economy, here is an excerpt from The Venus Project’s site -

    “Resource Based Economy

    The term and meaning of a Resource Based Economy was originated by Jacque Fresco. It is a holistic socio-economic
    system in which all goods and services are available without the use of
    money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All
    resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just
    a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the
    Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing
    resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive
    to our survival.

    Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make
    available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our
    educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable,
    non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy,
    everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the
    amenities of a high technological society.

    A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the
    land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the
    lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather
    than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and
    provide a high standard of living for all.

    Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the
    US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly
    overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a
    year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough
    funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we
    did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have
    more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled
    the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the
    war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

    In a resource-based economy all of the world’s resources are held as
    the common heritage of all of Earth’s people, thus eventually outgrowing
    the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is
    the unifying imperative.”

    http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy

  • Happypedro

    Wish he wouldn’t have used the term
    ‘anarchism’ instead of something like ‘disorder’. Disinfo itself recently had David Graeber’s article ‘Are You An Anarchist? The answer may surprise you’ that pointed out many misconceptions about anarchism. So it’s disappointing to see a continued misuse of the term.

  • Happypedro

    Wish he wouldn’t have used the term
    ‘anarchism’ instead of something like ‘disorder’. Disinfo itself recently had David Graeber’s article ‘Are You An Anarchist? The answer may surprise you’ that pointed out many misconceptions about anarchism. So it’s disappointing to see a continued misuse of the term.

  • Genetics Environment

    I like this resource based economic model. I think if it were implemented it would be great!

  • Genetics Environment

    I like this resource based economic model. I think if it were implemented it would be great!

  • jigglyboobs

    After capitalism will come the falsely-contrived ‘Singularity’ deception… more lies for you all to eagerly swallow like little piggiesat the trough…
    “Duh, what comes after bullshit?”
    The answer is always the same: MORE BULLSHIT.
    The human mind is incapable of comprehending or even conceiving of anything else.
    enjoy, piggies.

  • jigglyboobs

    After capitalism will come the falsely-contrived ‘Singularity’ deception… more lies for you all to eagerly swallow like little piggiesat the trough…
    “Duh, what comes after bullshit?”
    The answer is always the same: MORE BULLSHIT.
    The human mind is incapable of comprehending or even conceiving of anything else.
    enjoy, piggies.

    • Andrew

      And your mind is human, isn’t it?

    • Calypso_1

      Is your Singularity removable or a pole?  And is its contravention one of tropic descant or metonymic evolution? 
      As to swine, I prefer feral; fed upon truffle, tuber, and hickory nut.  Makes for a fine Omolete de Mioleira.

      • TheHomerica

        big words do not equal a big mind, and a refusal to see past the ‘bullshit’ gets you only more bullshit. come on people, lets think and discuss, not bicker like little bitches…

        • Calypso_1

          Think? Discuss?, rather old boy.  You have such a quaint coprophilic frame of reference.  I assure you that I would not have you as a bitch as I tend towards taut areolæ and supple oscillatory bodies for the enjoyment of galactopoiesis – not jiggly.  Nor, do I ‘bicker’. Taunt, oh yes.  So to engage at your level and inspire you upon your quest to see through the shit – Nanny, nanny, BooBoo stick your head In DooDoo.  Cheers!

  • Andrew

    And your mind is human, isn’t it?

  • Andrew

    And your mind is human, isn’t it?

  • RonTeller

    “What Is Coming After Capitalism?”

    When you start from a false conclusion — the conclusions will be wrong.  We have not had “capitalism” for a very long time — perhaps a century.  Since the rise of corporations, we have had something closely akin to the “robber baron” monopolies that proceeded it.  Then, in the last 20 years or so, we have had a mix of massive, overwhelming government corruption combined with overt criminal conduct from corporations under the umbrella of the Federal Reserve private banks.

    So … perhaps a better title would be:  “What is coming after the current economic clusterf**k?”

  • RonTeller

    “What Is Coming After Capitalism?”

    When you start from a false conclusion — the conclusions will be wrong.  We have not had “capitalism” for a very long time — perhaps a century.  Since the rise of corporations, we have had something closely akin to the “robber baron” monopolies that proceeded it.  Then, in the last 20 years or so, we have had a mix of massive, overwhelming government corruption combined with overt criminal conduct from corporations under the umbrella of the Federal Reserve private banks.

    So … perhaps a better title would be:  “What is coming after the current economic clusterf**k?”

  • Hadrian999

    back to feudalism

    • Jin The Ninja

      The lack of capitalism not the same as feudalism, in fact, early forms of mercantilism (proto capitalism) evolved during ‘feudal’ times. I would assert there is no certainty on system in the context of revolution (or systemic collapse). If a is gone does not mean d will procede it.

      EDITED*

      Hadrian, I can see how it reads strangely

      the first line SHOULD read:

      The LACK of capitalism is not feudalism (I didn’t mean No (comma, Capitalism is not the same feudalism).

      I ve edited it to reflect this.

      • Hadrian999

        i didn’t say that capitalism is feudalism but i do believe we are on a coarse into a new feudalism

        • Jin The Ninja

          i didn’t mean to imply that YOU said capitalism is feudalism (although i personally think capitalism has feudalist qualities) i meant and perhaps did not say clearly that if capitalism fails what will rise in it’s place is not nessacerily feudalism. I said it in response b.c i thought you WERE saying feudalism will rise IF capitalism fails…perhaps we both misread eachother’s intentions. if so i apologise!

          • Hadrian999

            i think that leading capitalists are aiming for a new feudalism by acting to destroy social safety nets, eliminating civil liberties and education for the poor and the destruction of the middle class, along with “libertarian” unlimited property rights for the rich and and destruction of labor laws I believe a coarse has been set establish a new feudal order in which you are either born into the monied class or you are born into a serf class with no options. it is much more a matter of feudalism if capitalism succeeds.

          • Jin The Ninja

            to that i totally agree.

  • Hadrian999

    back to feudalism

  • Jin (仁)

    No capitalism is not the same as feudalism, in fact, early forms of mercantilism (proto capitalism) evolved during ‘feudal’ times. I would assert there is no asserty on system, whether capitalism finally meets it’s demise or not…

  • Anonymous

    Is your Singularity removable or a pole?  And is its contravention one of tropeic descant or metonymic evolution? 
    As to swine, I prefer feral, fed upon truffle, tuber, and hickory nut.  Makes for a fine Omolete de Mioleira.

  • Hadrian999

    i didn’t say that capitalism is feudalism but i do believe we are on a coarse into a new feudalism

  • Jin (仁)

    i didn’t mean to imply that YOU said capitalism is feudalism (although i personally think capitalism has feudalist qualities) i meant and perhaps did not say clearly that if capitalism fails what will rise in it’s place is not nessacerily feudalism. I said it in response b.c i thought you WERE saying feudalism will rise IF capitalism fails…perhaps we both misread eachother’s intentions. if so i apologise!

  • Hadrian999

    i think that leading capitalists are aiming for a new feudalism by acting to destroy social safety nets, eliminating civil liberties and education for the poor and the destruction of the middle class, along with “libertarian” unlimited property rights for the rich and and destruction of labor laws I believe a coarse has been set establish a new feudal order in which you are either born into the monied class or you are born into a serf class with no options. it is much more a matter of feudalism if capitalism succeeds.

  • Jin (仁)

    to that i totally agree.

  • Jin (仁)

    to that i totally agree.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kayleighio Kayleigh Rogers

    Your writing style is very flowery and misconstrues information. How can you compare protests in cairo to wallstreet? They’re completely different. I think Wallstreet occupiers have become very confused as to what they are fighting against. People are fighting against how capitalism is used… capitalism in itself works. Its more the greed factor thats taken over in the past 30 years. These protests aren’t a sign of that capitalism is going to be out any time soon; your views lack realism.

    • Calypso_1
    • Jin The Ninja

      Well, I think capitalism IS outmoded, systemically corrupt, ecocidal/genocidal and pretty much evil all around, so perhaps it is YOUR perception which fails to encapsulate reality and/or historical context.

      • JaceD

        Here here! The sooner people wake up and realise that capitalism is infact only a creation of man, and an out dated one at that, the sooner we can start working on the next system… Till we create an even better one after our to-be model becomes outdated.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kayleighio Kayleigh Rogers

    Your writing style is very flowery and misconstrues information. How can you compare protests in cairo to wallstreet? They’re completely different. I think Wallstreet occupiers have become very confused as to what they are fighting against. People are fighting against how capitalism is used… capitalism in itself works. Its more the greed factor thats taken over in the past 30 years. These protests aren’t a sign of that capitalism is going to be out any time soon; your views lack realism.

  • Anonymous
  • TheHomerica

    big words do not equal a big mind, and a refusal to see past the ‘bullshit’ gets you only more bullshit. come on people, lets think and discuss, not bicker like little bitches…

  • Anonymous

    Think? Discuss?, rather old boy.  You have such a quaint coprophilic frame of reference.  I assure you that I would not have you as a bitch as I tend towards taut areolæ and supply oscillatory bodies for the enjoyment of galactopoiesis – not jiggly.  Nor, do I ‘bicker’. Taunt, oh yes.  So to engage at your level and inspire you upon your quest to see through the shit – Nanny, nanny, BooBoo stick your head In DooDoo.  Cheers!

  • Jin (仁)

    Well, I think capitalism IS outmoded, systemically corrupt, ecocidal/genocidal and pretty much evil all around, so perhaps it is YOUR perception which fails to encapsulate reality and/or historical context.

  • Southpaw10677

    The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to
    continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too
    expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will
    pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the
    way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” 
    frank zappa quote we are witnessing the end of the american empire its not gonna be pretty

  • Southpaw10677

    The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to
    continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too
    expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will
    pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the
    way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” 
    frank zappa quote we are witnessing the end of the american empire its not gonna be pretty

  • FaithNFounders

    It doesn’t matter; JESUS will be back sooner than you think. Do you know HIM?

    • eyebeam

      Dude, he was here, you missed him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=708224063 Corey Lunsford

    It doesn’t matter; JESUS will be back sooner than you think. Do you know HIM?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=708224063 Corey Lunsford

    It doesn’t matter; JESUS will be back sooner than you think. Do you know HIM?

  • Anonymous

    Here here! The sooner people wake up and realise that capitalism is infact only a creation of man, and an out dated one at that, the sooner we can start working on the next system… Till we create an even better one after our to-be model becomes outdated.

  • Thezeitgeistmovement

    Help make it become reality, visit http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com and become an activist in the spreading of awareness.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Answer…the kind of hangover that legends are born from.

    • Calypso_1

      I do hope some wisdom is born from it….springing eternaly and all that.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Answer…the kind of hangover that legends are born from.

  • Anonymous

    I do hope some wisdom is born from it….springing eternaly and all that,

  • Anonymous

    I do hope some wisdom is born from it….springing eternaly and all that,

  • Anonymous

    I do hope some wisdom is born from it….springing eternaly and all that,

  • Anonymous

    Dude, he was here, you missed him.

  • https://twitter.com/#!/MiddleAmericaMS MiddleAmericaMS

    Q: What Is Coming After Capitalism?
      
    A: More Capitalism, its not going anywhere.
      
     
    Side note, everyone knows that the deregulation of the financial industry created the crash, duh.
      
     

  • http://twitter.com/MiddleAmericaMS MiddleAmericaMS

    Q: What Is Coming After Capitalism?
      
    A: More Capitalism, its not going anywhere.
      
     
    Side note, everyone knows that the deregulation of the financial industry created the crash, duh.
      
     

  • http://twitter.com/USpace123 U.Space

    People are always being sucked into the lies of utopianism, socialism, communism and other forms of freedom killing statism.

    We should advocate for the most freedom for man.  That comes from capitalism.  It’s not perfect but it’s far better than any other system for providing the most opportunities for the most members of a society.

    Capitalism is simply everyone looking out for themselves, their families, and their friends. People and organizations, rich and poor and in-between, large and small and middle sized.  Of course, a fair and just rule of law is needed to enforce property rights and protect the people from bad actors taking greed and self-interest too far by violating other people’s rights.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FPBFO6RC5R2HHIP3VXSFU2RZQA mjj

      The problem is that no one can do it by themselves anymore. There may have been a short time early on in the US history but this was a rare event. No great society on earth or even a football team has ever done it with everyone doing there own thing. If you are a bible banger read ACTS and the story of ANNANIAS. That is a page out of the Karl Marx playbook.

  • http://twitter.com/USpace123 U.Space

    People are always being sucked into the lies of utopianism, socialism, communism and other forms of freedom killing statism.

    We should advocate for the most freedom for man.  That comes from capitalism.  It’s not perfect but it’s far better than any other system for providing the most opportunities for the most members of a society.

    Capitalism is simply everyone looking out for themselves, their families, and their friends. People and organizations, rich and poor and in-between, large and small and middle sized.  Of course, a fair and just rule of law is needed to enforce property rights and protect the people from bad actors taking greed and self-interest too far by violating other people’s rights.

  • http://twitter.com/USpace123 U.Space

    People are always being sucked into the lies of utopianism, socialism, communism and other forms of freedom killing statism.

    We should advocate for the most freedom for man.  That comes from capitalism.  It’s not perfect but it’s far better than any other system for providing the most opportunities for the most members of a society.

    Capitalism is simply everyone looking out for themselves, their families, and their friends. People and organizations, rich and poor and in-between, large and small and middle sized.  Of course, a fair and just rule of law is needed to enforce property rights and protect the people from bad actors taking greed and self-interest too far by violating other people’s rights.

  • Tenev Teodor

    The only way we see a change for the better is going to be if we change! And although we are very advanced as a race, humand psychology is much the same. Thus no matter what the next system be, it will find its masters which will ride it as hard as unscrupolous as todays elite moves the capitalism!

  • Tenev Teodor

    The only way we see a change for the better is going to be if we change! And although we are very advanced as a race, humand psychology is much the same. Thus no matter what the next system be, it will find its masters which will ride it as hard as unscrupolous as todays elite moves the capitalism!

  • Tribu

    Suicidal way of life and then what ? really irrational solution, knowing how humans are ambitious and americans, it will cause a world war because everyone will think that “what i have is not enough, I need more and more because ressources are “infinite” ” Stupid management solution 

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FPBFO6RC5R2HHIP3VXSFU2RZQA mjj

    The problem is that no one can do it by themselves anymore. There may have been a short time early on in the US history but this was a rare event. No great society on earth or even a football team has ever done it with everyone doing there own thing. If you are a bible banger read ACTS and the story of ANNANIAS. That is a page out of the Karl Marx playbook.

  • Anonymous

    What is coming after capitalism, easy either extinction or socialism. Freedom is always limited by what you can do with it, as your freedom in a social group is always limited by how much you reduce everyone else’s freedom.
    Of course for a non-social animal in the wild, say a lizard, you are free to eat or be eaten.

  • Anonymous

    What is coming after capitalism, easy either extinction or socialism. Freedom is always limited by what you can do with it, as your freedom in a social group is always limited by how much you reduce everyone else’s freedom.
    Of course for a non-social animal in the wild, say a lizard, you are free to eat or be eaten.

  • rtb61

    What is coming after capitalism, easy either extinction or socialism. Freedom is always limited by what you can do with it, as your freedom in a social group is always limited by how much you reduce everyone else’s freedom.
    Of course for a non-social animal in the wild, say a lizard, you are free to eat or be eaten.

  • gaytheotherway

    For Ocuupy!

    For ZeitGeist!

  • gaytheotherway

    For Ocuupy!

    For ZeitGeist!

  • Thezeitgeistmovement

    Right, because where has Capitalism gotten the planet and the environment? Have you not looked around the world’s problems? If you think more capitalism will solve capitalism that’s the definition of insanity.We need a system to surpass obsolete Capitalism. Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, etc. are all inherently obsolete and outdated. How long has Africa been left in the fucking dust? When are we going to start becoming responsible for the actions we take? When does this enter our awareness? We need a system that’s in dynamic equilibrium with the natural regenerative processes of the Earth. We are using a system that assumes infinite consumption of resources (Capitalism), given the precipice that the resources on this planet are finite, we our sowing our own destruction under the guise of ‘economic growth’. If we are using resources faster than they can be generated, how is this in any way logical if we expect to pass the Earth down to hundreds of future generations? It’s not. The technological capacity we’re at is so incredibly efficient we could start eliminating boring, brain-cell rotting jobs, allowing people to discover their true potential and study their true passion. We are not born lazy ignorant children. We are very curious at youth, and if nurtured properly could expand our horizons past anything we could possibly imagine. The system today of going to work 5 days a week to leave to buy shit we don’t need in order to keep consumption and profits high to go home and watch Dancing with the Stars to just repeat it all over again isn’t LIFE. We aren’t living in this slave system.

  • Thezeitgeistmovement

    That was the most fallible assessment of a Resource Based Economy i’ve ever seen. Think about what Capitalism is. It’s intrisically assuming that the planet has an INFINITE amount of resources that must be consumed as fast as possible since that’s the motive of business, profit. More consumption, more profit, more greed. The system we are using is not in dynamic equilibrium with the regenerative process of the planet. Meaning we consume more than is being produced because we are not sustainably producing goods. By ANY means. We are surrounded by free limitless energy. The reason this hasn’t been tapped is because of the profit motive. You can’t make money off of air since it’s so abundant, correct? So if energy was produced in abundance instead of being kept in scarcity, it wouldn’t be controllable or profitable. So it’s not of interest to oil tycoons to develop alternative energy, because they lose their monopoly. While in the meantime, we’re getting fucked with fluctuating gas prices and absolutely destroying the environment in which we all live. Nobody would have the attitude that they need more and more since we would have the ability to produce more. This mentality would fade with the passing of the Monetary System and proper education. All it takes is a generation.

    • Caleborp

      So why hasn’t some smart scientist acted in his own best interests and created a perfect “clean” energy source. Stop complaining about large companies destroying your quality of life and manipulating and exploiting you. If you think that’s whats happening, then don’t buy their products/use their services. The point of having a free society is that nobody is forced to do anything. If you think you can do it better without corporations, then be my guest. Corporations just happen to be the most efficient way of increasing quality of life.

      • Mr Willow

        If you think that’s whats happening, then don’t buy their products/use their services.

        I have never bought an Apple product. Ever. Last I checked, they were doing just fine without me. And I would like to know to whom we are supposed to turn to avoid them. In case you hadn’t noticed, corporations own everything!!

        The point of having a free society is that nobody is forced to do anything. 

        Which is not what we have. In order to have a house, to have food, to have water, to have healthcare, to have education (what we are told is essential to being ‘successful’), you must have money. To get money one is forced to work a job they hate—a menial, tedious, degrading task for which you are compensated with barely enough to afford food and rent, let alone the other stuff—and in many cases (generally in correlation to how little money you already have) one is forced to work three or four. That is slavery. 

        Corporations just happen to be the most efficient way of increasing quality of life. 

        And yet the more power we give to corporations, the quality of life decreases. Well, unless you’re talking about corporation owners.

        • Your a genius

          So your implying that you want everything given to you for free? Yes, to live a comfortable life your going to have to work. Hate to break it to you. 

          Henry Ford sure decreased the quality of life of countless Americans as we bought his products didn’t he? As did Steve jobs when he brought a revolution to computing technology. As did the inventor of the television, the internet, the furnace. Yes, you make complete sense. Giving power to corporations and innovators definitely decreases our quality of life. 

           I’m sorry if you feel that you are entitled to everything for free. If you want something, work harder and apply yourself. No one is stopping you from creating your own product/service. You are not forced to consume, neither are you forced to work. If you can talk successful people into giving you goods and services for free, then be my guest.

          • Mr Willow

            Now we’re back to ‘handouts’. Stop being so damn predicable. 

            First of all, I do not, in any way, advocate indolence. I do, however, consider it important for people to enjoy what they do, to put their energy into something that cultivates a greater society than that we have currently, and to otherwise do things that are necessary for survival. Example: The Occupy protests (particularly the progenitors of the movement on Wall Street) showed work being done in the form of healthcare, food preparation, discussion, learning, sanitation (to the extent they were allowed, self-policing, self governance. Yet, none of it involved the exchange of currency. In times before industrialisation, things were done—people were not layabouts—yet to a greater or lesser extent, people did something that benefited either themselves directly (growing food is an example) or to the rest of society, their services were not first bid upon by some agency, who then presented it to the rest of the public (which is the function of a modern corporation). 

            I could probably type a very detailed explanation, but I feel Mathew Collings explains it the most eloquently:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_IBH51g2KM&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL91263144CFC9E937 (one episode, in six parts, and pay special attention to Ruskin’s ‘Law of Help’)

            Second, Henry Ford revolutionised production through an axiom of providing the highest quality product, for the lowest price, while paying the highest wages. Today’s corporate axiom is simply more profit at the lowest (monetary) cost—the cost to the society and natural environment being inconsequential and the consideration of such things being an impediment to profit. Steve Jobs didn’t make a damn thing—he was the marketer of the product his friend Steve Wozniak built. All he did at Apple was approve the designs and functions the engineers and designers invented. The internet was completely public until the 1990’s. The furnace was invented for metal-working, something that has been used since the bronze age to the benefit of society. Next time, mention Benjamin Franklin, who invented a whole host of things—among them bifocals, the lightening rod, and the odometer—which he never filed a patent for, but that doesn’t fit the narrative that money comes first, instead of need.

          • Zaki

            I agree with Mr. Willow.. even today most of the inventions are not owned nor produced by the corporations. What actually happens is that scientists and engineers who apply themselves to research publish journal papers that have these inventions and some of them are able to acquire a patent. Then they are paid a pity amount of money (equivalent to $2,000 in average) by the corporations to give up the rights to their inventions to the corporation. The corporation would then market the product and send it into mass production.

          • Yawn

            owned on the ford issue im afraid hes right business just doesnt fit that model any more its lowest quality and production cost with a maximum profit and the inventors were individuals not corps. its was big business that conned and stole these ideas and for the most part left the real talent pennyless and destitute as for steve jobs well pffft FUCK APPLE

      • Thezeitgeistmovement

        You must of missed the countless numbers of scientist’s that have contributed to the development of free limitless energy and were killed or silenced by the corporate powers that be for it because it would free humanity. According to the Institute for New Energy as of 2010 over 5,135 free energy devices or applications were suppressed under the secrecy order, title 35, U.S. Code (1952) sections 181-188.
        Here’s just a few to scientists check out –

        Jacque Fresco (Founder of the Venus Project and predecessor of Buckminster Fuller)

        Richard Buckminster Fuller

        Nikola Tesla (J.P. Morgan financed him, then destroyed him when he realized he couldn’t make money off Tesla’s inventions)

        Dr. Brian O’leary

        Dr. Stefan Marinov (allegedly jumped to his death from the tenth story of the library building at the University of Graz in Austria.)

        Dr. Eugen Mallov (started infinite energy magazine, had a radio show set for him on Coast to Coast in May of ’04 to demonstrate a tabletop free energy device, less than 24h before the show was bludgeoned to death in front of his home.)

        Well, Corporations could DRASTICALLY improve the quality of life to a level never before seen on this planet, if we dropped the whole competition/business/profit deal and started working together. Imagine if Mercedes and BMW started sharing ideas to build the best car possible, with the application of free energy. What if Apple and Motorola worked together to develop the longest lasting, most durable cell phone to last a hundred years? This IS possible with the available resources on the planet. Do you see how making things efficient is the complete opposite goal of the Monetary System? Take Big Pharma for example, if Cancer were cured today do you know how many people would lose jobs creating a dive in the economy, because we’re curing people of sickness?!? It’s not of interest to Big Pharma to HEAL patients, the only thing they want is return customers. And what does that mean for you and I and the rest of the world? Sick and dying people are good for GDP. This is asinine.

        • Caleborp

          Yeah yeah, a real credible organization. And the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was an inside job. 

          • mr credibility

            and who is the credible organisation exxon bp shell??
            monsanto du pont ?? Nestle?? lmfao if they were world leaders they would be in the hague for crimes against humanity (well prob not but they should be!!)

          • killcreek

            Caleborp will u stop being so shallow!! You are mixing everything up. What on earth does 911 and moon landing have to do with capitalism and a resource based economy! You are not even worth the time they spent to answer your stupid arguments

      • me no likey

        words of a moron clean or cleaner energy source have been developed and suppressed by big business and as for living outside the reach and control of corporations is possible just increasingly dificult as they buy up the planet if you think corporations are an effective way to increase quality of life your realy mistaken corps. are good for increasing profit which only increases the quality of life for the few who have big shares try tell a worker in the chicken factory in china they have an improved quality of life working 12 hrs a day living in a 6 by 4 room

  • Thezeitgeistmovement

    Support a Resource Based Economy, mechanization and automation of boring monotonous jobs is a top priority.

    • farmerjulia

      But there are boring, monotonous jobs that simply cannot be automated.  I guess we let the migrants do them- picking vegetables, etc.  What about those?

      • Thezeitgeistmovement

        With a system that is by default looking out for you an the ones you love, making sure everyone on the planet has the highest possible standard of living, people would volunteer their time left and right. Look at Wikipedia, look at Linux. People don’t want to sit around and be lazy. We like challenges, we like mastery. Money is only a proper incentive tool for mundane tasks like how fast you can operate physical things like picking fruit (the first types of jobs to be automated). Sure the faster you pick the more you make. Easy. But when it comes to mental creative tasks, it’s been demonstrated that money actually hinders creative thought. Have you seen any RSA lectures?

  • Caleborp

    Stop saying capitalism does not work, the U.S. couldn’t be further from a true capitalistic society. Welfare, Public Healthcare, Government pensions, Subsidies, Fractional Reserve Banking, a constantly interfering Federal reserve, and a web of bureaucracy and red tape have led to the decline of America. Let’s not wail about the end of capitalism, but try and restore it to what it actually is.

    • Mr Willow

      restore it to what it actually is.

      Yeah, people killing and enslaving each-other over the privilege to the most of the world’s resources instead of the very novel thing of sharing resources and working together. 

      So long as you are at the king of the hill, capitalism’s great, but it necessitates you dehumanise everyone around you (creating reasons why they don’t deserve healthcare or education often related to some idiotic birthright you claim to have) to achieve the ‘fruits’ capitalism promises. We tried that already, and it produced slavery and genocide. In response, the peasants revolted. To protect themselves, the aristocrats raised private armies; so goes the cycle. 

      It stops when people understand that if you live within a society you have a responsibility to that society’s sustainment, that without coöperation you have dictatorship, and they actually embrace all the idealistic language conservatives spout all the time about coming together and equality and freedom. This absurd ‘goal’ of each person to somehow cultivate their own ecosystem entirely independent of one another is an inachievable one, because within this ethos it is understood that you are exceptional—as in not the same as, and indeed are inherently better than, ‘those people’ (whomever you would like [another race, hippies, ‘the help’, etc. etc.])—which means there will always be someone that you exploit. 

      In the past, the ‘exceptional’ were the aristocracy and bankers and clergy. Today, they are the industry owners and media moguls (and bankers and clergy). The exploited are the same people its always been—that have continually made inching progress through revolution (violent or otherwise) throughout the centuries—everybody else.

      • Caleborp

        Ok, I’m confused as to where you got your definition of capitalism from. Here’s what I thought it was.

        “Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights”

        But yes, I absolutely agree with you on the killing and enslaving part. I think you might be confused with feudalism. 

        I’m confused by how you toss the word exploit around. If I don’t force anyone to do anything, how am I exploiting them? In fact, if both people agree on an exchange of goods or services, they are both benefiting. One person gets money in exchange for a service, the other person gets the service in exchange for money. Who’s losing?

        I’m going to have to disagree on your “Exceptional” of today. Today, the exceptional is whoever wants to be there. Through hard work and dedication (concepts that are perhaps foreign to some of us) anyone can become “Exceptional”. 

        I agree that there are problem’s in the system, but I disagree that taking away freedom is the way to go. 

        • Mr Willow

          “Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights”

          But yes, I absolutely agree with you on the killing and enslaving part.

          Wait, now I’m confused. Someone who was killed or enslaved in the past had no rights, yet, they were individuals. Unless you’re trying the whole ‘corporations are individuals’ ploy, I don’t follow your logic. Capitalism is only feudalism under a new name. Feudal lords took their power at the point of a sword, industrialists took their power through bribes and advertising the false notion that without enough misery everything will turn out alright. The end result is still the same the plutarchs dictate your will to you. Edict or advertisement look about the same, the former coërcing and the latter deceiving. 

          Concerning exploitation, every person is expected to work, which is not a bad thing—again, it is not a bad thing to expect people to work, to exert themselves in the basic upkeep, at least, of themselves and their environment—but it becomes so when you have both overpopulation and mechanisation—and people are still expected to work. And not work that is fulfilling, that is interesting, or is enjoyable, just any sort of task to fill their existence—but that’s an aside. 

          The fact is that there are more people than jobs, and that is only compounded by the introduction of machines in manufacturing which can do the work of ten people faster, more efficiently, with more precision. They make manufacturing ‘better’, yet they put innumerable people out of work, and if you know anything about the Industrial Revolution, there were textiles mills (among other places) who had their previous workers come in and smash the machines because they lost their jobs. It affected their freedom to live comfortably (because they no longer had money, which means they could not have a home nor food), but the only ‘freedom’ most people care about is that of the company, who had its ‘property’ destroyed or vandalised. Disgusting. 

          Today, the exceptional is whoever wants to be there.

          Funny how ‘whoever wants to be there’ usually translates as ‘the bigger asshole’. 

          I agree that there are problem’s in the system, but I disagree that taking away freedom is the way to go. 

          The only ‘freedom’ that is being taken away is the freedom of one man to step on another. 

          Translated: “Don’t tread on me by restricting me from treading on others.”

  • Ggaga

    Not true. The deregulation just exposed the cracks in the wall that were there to begin with. Every thought about how the Federal reserve is having an effect on the economy? Please tell me you know what fractional reserve banking is. 

    • Mr Willow

      The repeal of Glass-Steagall certainly didn’t help. 

      • Chris Ilkew

        FDIC bank accounts actually promote banks taking larger risks with their clients money because they don’t have any consequences. If bank accounts weren’t FDIC insured, if banks took too much risk they would fail, and these things would have a normal cause and effect relationship. Nowadays, banks can do whatever they want, and not lose because they Fed has got their bank. This isn’t the bank’s fault, it’s the government’s.

  • Rob

    After capitalism? Famine traditionally. Death to communists.

  • I am the 1%

    Labour laws are shit.

  • Cosmic Stranger

    Capitalism is NOT freedom.  Are you more free now that companies are not hiring you?  Are you more free when corporations conspire to influence your actions to keep you in line with their marketing (the cult “Up With People”, being a great example of this practice.)  Are the Chinese free because they have seemingly perfected the art of capitalism at a level enviable by Americans?  You confuse capitalism with democracy.  in American, people believe one defines the other.  But those people are beginning to see the error of their thinking.

  • Lead Me Logic

    Hahahaha let’s all conform to social anarchists since you seem to think this god forsaken joke for “Capitalism” is actually capitalism…  I call dibs on playing the bongo in tonight’s kumbaya serenade 
    : ) 

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