Whither Environmentalism?

Earth FirstJennifer Browdy de Hernandez writes at Common Dreams:

In the latest issue of Orion Magazine, environmental activists Derrick Jensen and Paul Kingsnorth both express their frustrations with the current environmental movement.

Jensen takes movement organizers to task for their drift towards actions that are “fun and sexy.”  ”The fact that so many people routinely call for environmentalism to be more fun and more sexy reveals not only the weakness of our movement but also the utter lack of seriousness with which even many activists approach the problems we face,” he says bitterly.  “When it comes to stopping the murder of the planet, too many environmentalists act more like they’re planning a party than building a movement.”

But let’s face it, there are a lot of people on this planet who find the issues addressed by environmentalism just too scary and depressing to deal with. The environmentalist party-planners are trying to reach these folks, who have been suckled from birth on cheery feel-good media, by presenting environmental action as fun and upbeat, rather than as doom-driven and angst-ridden.  It’s environmentalism on anti-depressants, and it fits a big swath of our population, who don’t want to dwell on anything sad or upsetting, unless maybe it’s a movie guaranteed to ultimately have a happy ending …

Read more here.

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133 Responses to Whither Environmentalism?

  1. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 4:14 am #

    great great post. i may not agree with jensen on EVERYTHING he says, but his critique is very valid, and most of what he says is very cogent and logical.

  2. Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    great great post. i may not agree with jensen on EVERYTHING he says, but his critique is very valid, and most of what he says is very cogent and logical.

    • Anarchy Pony January 13, 2012 at 1:47 am #

      Something I wrote made it into one of his books.

      But anyway, it looks like between 60% and 80% of biodiversity will be gone by 2100 given current trends, including most large mammals. 
      So uh, your move world. 

      • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

        seriously, that is sick (that you got ref’d in his book), endgame?

        • Anarchy Pony January 13, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

          No, Dreams, I didn’t learn about him ’til after endgame already came out, but I was only ref’d in the notes at the end. He saw something I wrote on the DJ forum and asked if he could use it, I said it was fine, told him to just say that someone on the forum said such, it’s at the end of note 57. It was from a discussion about an interview DJ had with techno worshiper Kevin Kelly and his ridiculous book What Technology Wants. 

          • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

            dreams was also a great book. the thing about derrick jensen is- he is a very good writer, whether you agree or disagree with what he says ( i generally agree). i`ll have to go find my copy or request it at work, so i can look up the ref.

            i also have, somewhere, that kevin kelly book, but i never got beyond the hardcover synopsis…lol

            i always end up with hoardes of very technophile, or neo-liberal oriented books meaning to read them and critique them, but i always end up reading books with my flavour of ideology or genre fiction…go figure.

          • Anarchy Pony January 13, 2012 at 3:35 pm #

            Well, I couldn’t help wanting to pull out my hair and commit acts of violence if I tried wading all the way through books like that. The crap that the authors leak out mostly ends up making my blood boil. 

          • Andrew January 13, 2012 at 6:06 pm #

            Don’t pull your hair out!

  3. SteveJobs January 13, 2012 at 12:33 am #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwhfU7jx_NI&feature=related

    • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 1:21 am #

      ugh. more veneration of an idol who was gold plated on the surface, but underneath lay the blackened heart of consumption, resource exploitation, child/slave labour, and the stupidifycation of computer systems.

  4. Kraid January 13, 2012 at 4:36 am #

    next
    next

  5. Kraid January 13, 2012 at 12:36 am #

    next
    next

  6. ChrisGaies January 13, 2012 at 4:37 am #

    next

  7. ChrisGaies January 13, 2012 at 12:37 am #

    next

  8. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 5:21 am #

    ugh. more veneration of an idol who was gold plated on the surface, but underneath lay the blackened heart of consumption, resource exploitation, child/slave labour, and the stupidifycation of computer systems.

  9. Anarchy Pony January 13, 2012 at 5:47 am #

    Something I wrote made it into one of his books.

    But anyway, it looks like between 60% and 80% of biodiversity will be gone by 2100 given current trends, including most large mammals. 
    So uh, your move world. 

  10. Jared_cowart January 13, 2012 at 1:48 am #

    I am getting my Masters in Environmental Science at UWF and will be graduating in a semester. I agree with most of the points made in this article. The fact that a large percentage of the population simply refuses to acknowledge that we impact the Earth and therefore our futures and the future generations after us is a depressing fact. I believe the answer lies in education. That’s why I’m deeply considering becoming a teacher to get teens to critically think and analyze humanity’s current stance on the environment.

    • Eric_D_Read January 13, 2012 at 12:30 pm #

      “I’m deeply considering becoming a teacher to get teens to critically think and analyze…”Good luck with that. You’ll have about as much success as if you tried giving a mountain lion a bath.

    • Truthteacher January 13, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

      I doesn’t matter what you teach people if we’re “not allowed” to live in a non-polluting world. The people in control do not share your opinion on the environment. You would be better off teaching them who their REAL enemy is. But then you would most likely lose your job. Lose lose situation.. 

    • Anti_Secret_Squirrel January 14, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

      Kinda odd that you live in Northwest Florida.  I do too but I don’t have the privilege,ability, or funds to further my degree in science at the moment but have looked into an environmental science degree.  I am very into this type of stuff and totally agree with this article and your standpoint.  Most people are not at all educated on enviro issues and I do agree that teaching and requiring it in grades K-12 and also in college would help the up and coming generation understand what needs to be done.  My 2 year college in North Carolina that I transferred here from required that everyone take the basic environmental science class.  Out of sight, out of mind and ignorance is bliss really does not apply to something of this matter like the extinction of the human race and all other flora and fauna.  People really need to open their eyes and do their own research instead of relying solely on what the “mainstream” media feeds them.

  11. Jared_cowart January 13, 2012 at 5:48 am #

    I am getting my Masters in Environmental Science at UWF and will be graduating in a semester. I agree with most of the points made in this article. The fact that a large percentage of the population simply refuses to acknowledge that we impact the Earth and therefore our futures and the future generations after us is a depressing fact. I believe the answer lies in education. That’s why I’m deeply considering becoming a teacher to get teens to critically think and analyze humanity’s current stance on the environment.

  12. Jared_cowart January 13, 2012 at 5:48 am #

    I am getting my Masters in Environmental Science at UWF and will be graduating in a semester. I agree with most of the points made in this article. The fact that a large percentage of the population simply refuses to acknowledge that we impact the Earth and therefore our futures and the future generations after us is a depressing fact. I believe the answer lies in education. That’s why I’m deeply considering becoming a teacher to get teens to critically think and analyze humanity’s current stance on the environment.

  13. Camron Wiltshire January 13, 2012 at 4:40 am #

    Reads like Al Gore’s jokes on 30 rock.

    • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

      hmm. not quite getting it. jensen reads like al gore? one an anti capitalist, eco-anarchist writer, the other a neo-liberal businessman-poltico who lives in a mansion in tennesee…. hmmm….

      • Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

        Yes so of course they are diametrically opposed…. Except on believing in the made up threat of “climate change”.  

        I would say you could summarize my post in that both people are genuinely disingenuous (at least Gore).  Perhaps they believe the mountains of AGW/Climate Change fear mongering propaganda.  To then write such a self possessed non ironic monologue documenting his personal, coming “jihad” against faux environmentalism (himself a massive example of just that if he is following the “climate change” paradigm that leads to cap and tax and lining Mr. Gore’s coffers along with his Goldman and Sach’s buddy David Blood.) 

        Then yes I am reminded of Al Gore pitching his bullshit propaganda in the form of non ironic “ironic” cameos that double as PSAdvertisments for enslaving mankind via manipulation and control over energy via the cap and tax scheme. 

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/30-rock-goes-green-al-gor_n_365321.html 
        (just keep in mind GE stands to very well if cap and tax (GOD FORBID) were ever passed.  If you don’t mind the war profiteer who spreads pestilence in the form of DU all over the middle east getting preachy about light bulbs and co2 emissions than I can’t really help you see my angle.

        • Jin The Ninja January 14, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

          are you even reading what i am writing? what you’re writing? after you suggested i was racist against white people ( i am 40% “white” afterall) i realised it was pointless to enter into discussion with you, whether about ron paul (whom i don’t HATE btw, just have genuine criticisms of), the environment, politics, everything in general… So i apologise for baiting you, i will give you the space to post, and you should give the same to me, meaning: there is absolutely no reason why we should interact with eachother unless i comment on your specific articles or vice versa,

          thanks, jin.

      • Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

        Yes so of course they are diametrically opposed…. Except on believing in the made up threat of “climate change”.  

        I would say you could summarize my post in that both people are genuinely disingenuous (at least Gore).  Perhaps they believe the mountains of AGW/Climate Change fear mongering propaganda.  To then write such a self possessed non ironic monologue documenting his personal, coming “jihad” against faux environmentalism (himself a massive example of just that if he is following the “climate change” paradigm that leads to cap and tax and lining Mr. Gore’s coffers along with his Goldman and Sach’s buddy David Blood.) 

        Then yes I am reminded of Al Gore pitching his bullshit propaganda in the form of non ironic “ironic” cameos that double as PSAdvertisments for enslaving mankind via manipulation and control over energy via the cap and tax scheme. 

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/30-rock-goes-green-al-gor_n_365321.html 
        (just keep in mind GE stands to very well if cap and tax (GOD FORBID) were ever passed.  If you don’t mind the war profiteer who spreads pestilence in the form of DU all over the middle east getting preachy about light bulbs and co2 emissions than I can’t really help you see my angle.

  14. Camron Wiltshire January 13, 2012 at 8:40 am #

    Reads like Al Gore’s jokes on 30 rock.

  15. Camron Wiltshire January 13, 2012 at 4:41 am #

    It also reminded me of a scene from “Friends”. 

    • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

      the fact that you watch/d friends speaks volumes in and of itself.

      • Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

        I think I have watched maybe one entire episode (but I dont’ believe so) in it’s long drawn out quelude march through post 9/11 America.  I can still remember the sting and the stink and made the comparison accordingly.  Fake Yuppie Problems forced down everyone’s throat comes to mind.  I find it hard to believe you are an anarchist when you believe essentially whatever Al Gore is telling you to believe here.

        • Jin The Ninja January 14, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

          “I find it hard to believe you are an anarchist when you believe essentially whatever Al Gore is telling you to believe here.”

          camron, you have no absolutely no basis to assert this ridiculous claim. it’s stuupid and offensive, you have no idea who i am, and NO ONE in their right mind claims anarchism as their political philosophy, defends it, it’s holistic paradigms, it’s anarchronistic and non western interpretations as i do, and is really a neo-liberal in disguise. i hate al gore. he is a puppet. that really has nothing to do with it. so please, kidd give me a f*cking break.

          jin

          you should check out end civ the documentary,

          which anarcho linked on this article. derrick jensen is an ECO-anarchist, could not be further from al gore’s truth. it’s not just about climate change, it’s about pollution and industrial destruction and exploitation of the earth as a whole.

        • Jin The Ninja January 14, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

          and ps. there is NOWHERE on the interweb more neo liberal than huffington post, and i refuse to visit that site after it was purchased by AOL (at one time, i was frequent and highly followed poster).

  16. Camron Wiltshire January 13, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    It also reminded me of a scene from “Friends”. 

  17. BuzzCoastin January 13, 2012 at 8:45 am #

    think globally
    act locally
    and sit back and wait for the shit to hit the fan

    http://youtu.be/RVaIHliEEQc

  18. BuzzCoastin January 13, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    think globally
    act locally
    and sit back and wait for the shit to hit the fan

  19. Rooti January 13, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    The environmental movement was hijacked by the Anthropogenic global warming movement. Instead of focusing on obvious pollution and environmental degradation it got caught up in an unproven theory designed to promote a global taxation system. 

    • Andrew January 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

      Seriously, a global taxation system is just about the most boring conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard of.

      • Rights4You January 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm #

        “Seriously, a global taxation system is just about the most boring conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard of.”
        You have to be joking… You must be, it’s way to obvious this has been the plan all along.

        Unless your some kind of fucking moron or something. (Don’t take offence to that, I know your not actually serious.)  

        • Andrew January 13, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

          I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

          • Rights4You January 13, 2012 at 12:30 pm #

            No doubt, but it’s no conspiracy theory that the elitist corrupt fucktards that run this country are trying to create a global taxation system based off of real data and half truths to gain more control over the population. This is what I was referring to as being obvious. You can’t deny the fact that they take something bad and capitalize on it for their on personal gains. That’s all I’m saying… Don’t know about Rootie up there..

          • Andrew January 13, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

            I can’t argue with that.  Sounds like Disaster Capitalism.

          • Rights4You January 13, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

            BTW, I apologize for the insults. This subject can get me worked up a bit. 

          • Andrew January 13, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

            No problem.

  20. Rooti January 13, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    The environmental movement was hijacked by the Anthropogenic global warming movement. Instead of focusing on obvious pollution and environmental degradation it got caught up in an unproven theory designed to promote a global taxation system. 

  21. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    Seriously, a global taxation system is just about the most boring conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard of.

  22. Rights4You January 13, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    “Seriously, a global taxation system is just about the most boring conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard of.”
    You have to be joking… You must be, it’s way to obvious this has been the plan all along.

    Unless your some kind of fucking moron or something. (Don’t take offence to that, I know your not actually serious.)  

  23. TheRealWorld January 13, 2012 at 12:10 pm #

    The problems is technology! We are limited by what technology is allowed to exist. This limitation is paraded as a conspiracy theory when it’s a very real problem. Example: The original astronaut’s magnetic boots. The boots allowed a very strong magnetic field to be switched on and off with an extremely low amount of energy. This caused a huge problem at NASA because the engineers understood the technology that was incorporated into the boots could be made into a self-powering magnetic oscillator. Using the power of one AA battery one could switch a magnetic field on and off that would in turn create an electrical current in a coil greater then that of the AA battery. Once this was understood the original astronaut’s magnetic boots were scrapped. 
    These types of things go on all the time. It causes us to go along with the same old nasty polluting systems. Which allows the revenue streams coming into the companies controlling these systems to keep on rolling. 

    THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN THIS WORLD! 

    • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

      i would say one of the biggest problems in the world is consumer capitalism and the exploitation it engenders in the human populace who view the earth as a snatch and grab scheme to be raped and pillaged at leisure.

      • TheRealWorld January 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

        Yes I agree, but that is just an effect of not using non-consuming technologies, it’s not the cause. We are all raised to consume consume consume and this mentality need to be changed. We don’t actually need to consume anything to have energy. Once that fact is realized in the minds of individuals we can start to move on to a better society. 

        Most of the problems in this world are a result of not using these technologies.    

        • Andrew January 13, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

          I strongly suspect that greed and the desire for ever more material trinkets stems from the stifling of healthy selfishness and unmet emotional needs in childhood.  Changing consumer mentality will likely be much harder than mainstream liberal political activists think.

          • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

            the mainstream liberal critique is in fact part of and throughly entrenched in consumer capitalism. they are unable to formulate anything substantial beyond an al gore, which is why radical environmentalism is so decried in the media.

    • razzlebathbone January 13, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

      A perpetual motion machine?
      I think shapeshifting lizard aliens are more likely.

      • Jake D January 13, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

        No one said anything about a perpetual motion machine.. Love the double-think here, you believe in aliens but don’t believe in the technology they would use. That is just silly. 

        • razzlebathbone January 13, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

          You describe a device that generates more energy than it consumes.
          That is a perpetual motion machine.
          I am willing to believe in a wide variety of strange and unusual things, but I’m afraid you’ll have to pardon my skepticism about that one.

          • Jake D January 13, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

            I didn’t describe anything…. I just looked up those boots and realized it’s NOT perpetual motion. Perpetual motion is NOT the same as perpetual energy. I really think this person is telling the truth because the technology he/she describes is legitimate and also the principle he/she describes – that allows for a perpetual energy state to take place — seems very reasonable.

             Do you honestly believe that science has not created a way to make perpetual energy yet? I sure don’t. They are just waiting for the oil to run out before it gets rolled out into the mainstream, instead of now when it’s use is only allowed in black projects. ;-) 

            Here is some info on the magnets in those boots: http://www.cheniere.org/references/Flux%20Transfer%20Principle.PDF 

          • razzlebathbone January 13, 2012 at 3:58 pm #

            Do I have this right? You’re saying that “perpetual energy” is different from perpetual motion?

            Okay. Pop quiz: what do you get when you hook your perpetual energy generator to an electric motor?

          • Jake D January 13, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

            You get an electric motor that will run until the bearings wear out and it stops, because there is no such thing as perpetual motion. You really need to research this stuff before you come up with silly arguments. 

          • razzlebathbone January 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm #

            I think I’ll settle for a grounding in basic physics and elementary logic, thanks.

    • SnakeArmor January 13, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

      I’m not sure if Disinfo.com is the place where you want to talk about the scientific dictatorship that exists in this world. This site’s visitors are not very strong in the scientific realm. But that’s just my opinion. 

  24. TheRealWorld January 13, 2012 at 4:10 pm #

    The problems is technology! We are limited by what technology is allowed to exist. This limitation is paraded as a conspiracy theory when it’s a very real problem. Example: The original astronaut’s magnetic boots. The boots allowed a very strong magnetic field to be switched on and off with an extremely low amount of energy. This caused a huge problem at NASA because the engineers understood the technology that was incorporated into the boots could be made into a self-powering magnetic oscillator. Using the power of one AA battery one could switch a magnetic field on and off that would in turn create an electrical current in a coil greater then that of the AA battery. Once this was understood the original astronaut’s magnetic boots were scrapped. 
    These types of things go on all the time. It causes us to go along with the same old nasty polluting systems. Which allows the revenue streams coming into the companies controlling these systems to keep on rolling. 

    THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN THIS WORLD! 

  25. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  26. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  27. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  28. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  29. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  30. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  31. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  32. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  33. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  34. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    I’m totally serious, and human industry is affecting the climate.

  35. GClover January 13, 2012 at 12:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  36. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  37. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  38. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  39. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  40. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  41. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  42. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  43. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  44. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  45. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  46. GClover January 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    The problem is this:

    Think about how stupid the average person is.

    and then realize that half of ‘em are stupider than that.
    -George Carlin

  47. Rights4You January 13, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    No doubt, but it’s no conspiracy theory that the elitist corrupt fucktards that run this country are trying to create a global taxation system based off of real data and half truths to gain more control over the population. This is what I was referring to as being obvious. You can’t deny the fact that they take something bad and capitalize on it for their on personal gains. That’s all I’m saying… Don’t know about Rootie up there..

  48. Anonymous January 13, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    “I’m deeply considering becoming a teacher to get teens to critically think and analyze…”Good luck with that. You’ll have about as much success as if you tried giving a mountain lion a bath.

  49. Truthteacher January 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    I doesn’t matter what you teach people if we’re “not allowed” to live in a non-polluting world. The people in control do not share your opinion on the environment. You would be better off teaching them who their REAL enemy is. But then you would most likely lose your job. Lose lose situation.. 

  50. Truthteacher January 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    I doesn’t matter what you teach people if we’re “not allowed” to live in a non-polluting world. The people in control do not share your opinion on the environment. You would be better off teaching them who their REAL enemy is. But then you would most likely lose your job. Lose lose situation.. 

  51. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    I can’t argue with that.  Sounds like Disaster Capitalism.

  52. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    I can’t argue with that.  Sounds like Disaster Capitalism.

  53. Rights4You January 13, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    BTW, I apologize for the insults. This subject can get me worked up a bit. 

  54. 885467H4N5 January 13, 2012 at 12:51 pm #

    Global Warming is the biggest BS ever. 

    • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 2:02 pm #

      didn’t read the article. or couldn’t?

  55. 885467H4N5 January 13, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    Global Warming is the biggest BS ever. 

  56. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    No problem.

  57. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    seriously, that is sick (that you got ref’d in his book), endgame?

  58. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    uh no.

  59. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    didn’t read the article. or couldn’t?

  60. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    the fact that you watch/d friends speaks volumes in and of itself.

  61. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    hmm. not quite getting it. jensen reads like al gore? one an anti capitalist, eco-anarchist writer, the other a neo-liberal businessman-poltico who lives in a mansion in tennesee…. hmmm….

  62. Anarchy Pony January 13, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

    No, Dreams, I didn’t learn about him ’til after endgame already came out, but I was only ref’d in the notes at the end. He saw something I wrote on the DJ forum and asked if he could use it, I said it was fine, told him to just say that someone on the forum said such, it’s at the end of note 57. It was from a discussion about an interview DJ had with techno worshiper Kevin Kelly and his ridiculous book What Technology Wants. 

  63. TheRealWorld January 13, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

    Yes I agree, but that is just an effect of not using non-consuming technologies, it’s not the cause. We are all raised to consume consume consume and this mentality need to be changed. We don’t actually need to consume anything to have energy. Once that fact is realized in the minds of individuals we can start to move on to a better society. 

    Most of the problems in this world are a result of not using these technologies.    

  64. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

    I strongly suspect that greed and the desire for ever more material trinkets stems from the stifling of healthy selfishness and unmet emotional needs in childhood.  Changing consumer mentality will likely be much harder than mainstream liberal political activists think.

  65. Anonymous January 13, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    A perpetual motion machine?
    I think shapeshifting lizard aliens are more likely.

  66. Anonymous January 13, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    A perpetual motion machine?
    I think shapeshifting lizard aliens are more likely.

  67. Jake D January 13, 2012 at 7:06 pm #

    No one said anything about a perpetual motion machine.. Love the double-think here, you believe in aliens but don’t believe in the technology they would use. That is just silly. 

  68. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 7:11 pm #

    dreams was also a great book. the thing about derrick jensen is- he is a very good writer, whether you agree or disagree with what he says ( i generally agree). i`ll have to go find my copy or request it at work, so i can look it the ref.

    i also have, somewhere, that kevin kelly book, but i never got beyond the hardcover synopsis…lol

    i always end up with hoardes of very technophile, or neo-liberal oriented books meaning to read them and critique them, but i always end up reading books with my flavour of ideology or genre fiction…go figure.

  69. Anonymous January 13, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

    You describe a device that generates more energy than it consumes.
    That is a perpetual motion machine.
    I am willing to believe in a wide variety of strange and unusual things, but I’m afraid you’ll have to pardon my skepticism about that one.

  70. Anarchy Pony January 13, 2012 at 7:35 pm #

    Well, I couldn’t help wanting to pull out my hair and commit acts of violence if I tried wading all the way through books like that. The crap that the authors leak out mostly ends up making my blood boil. 

  71. Jake D January 13, 2012 at 7:46 pm #

    I didn’t describe anything…. I just looked up those boots and realized it’s NOT perpetual motion. Perpetual motion is NOT the same as perpetual energy. I really think this person is telling the truth because the technology he/she describes is legitimate and also the principle he/she describes – that allows for a perpetual energy state to take place — seems very reasonable.

     Do you honestly believe that science has not created a way to make perpetual energy yet? I sure don’t. They are just waiting for the oil to run out before it gets rolled out into the mainstream, instead of now when it’s use is only allowed in black projects. ;-) 

    Here is some info on the magnets in those boots: http://www.cheniere.org/references/Flux%20Transfer%20Principle.PDF 

  72. anarcho January 13, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    You people are probably already familiar with this work,  but just in case someone isn’t,  it reflects fairly closely to my view of this issue (which may mean nothing to you) and I think is quite informative - 

    END:CIV –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hx-G1uhRqA

  73. anarcho January 13, 2012 at 3:52 pm #

    You people are probably already familiar with this work,  but just in case someone isn’t,  it reflects fairly closely to my view of this issue (which may mean nothing to you) and I think is quite informative - 

    END:CIV –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hx-G1uhRqA

    • anarcho January 13, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

      I also want to turn your attention to remedies,  particularly in the work of Peter Gelderloos (very “dangerous” book,  lol) HOW NON-VIOLENCE PROTECTS THE STATE -

      http://zinelibrary.info/files/How%20Nonviolence%20Protects%20The%20State.pdf

      Also,  the book is part of an online forum/library,  that you might find helpful –

      http://zinelibrary.info

      Once you see and read this you will probably get the gist of what I am talking about,  and I am dead serious.

      • Jin The Ninja January 13, 2012 at 4:28 pm #

        i infrequently watch ‘it’s the end of the world as we know it’ on submedia, but i always enjoy it, and the interviews involved.

  74. Anonymous January 13, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    Do I have this right? You’re saying that “perpetual energy” is different from perpetual motion?

    Okay. Pop quiz: what do you get when you hook your perpetual energy generator to an electric motor?

  75. Jake D January 13, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    You get an electric motor that will run until the bearings wear out and it stops, because there is no such thing as perpetual motion. You really need to research this stuff before you come up with silly arguments. 

  76. anarcho January 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm #

    I also want to turn your attention to remedies,  particularly in the work of Peter Gelderloos (very “dangerous” book,  lol) HOW NON-VIOLENCE PROTECTS THE STATE -

    http://zinelibrary.info/files/How%20Nonviolence%20Protects%20The%20State.pdf

    Also,  the book is part of an online forum/library,  that you might find helpful –

    http://zinelibrary.info

    Once you see and read this you will probably get the gist of what I am talking about,  and I am dead serious.

  77. anarcho January 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm #

    I also want to turn your attention to remedies,  particularly in the work of Peter Gelderloos (very “dangerous” book,  lol) HOW NON-VIOLENCE PROTECTS THE STATE -

    http://zinelibrary.info/files/How%20Nonviolence%20Protects%20The%20State.pdf

    Also,  the book is part of an online forum/library,  that you might find helpful –

    http://zinelibrary.info

    Once you see and read this you will probably get the gist of what I am talking about,  and I am dead serious.

  78. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

    the mainstream liberal critique is in fact part of and throughly entrenched in consumer capitalism. they are unable to formulate anything substantial beyond an al gore, which is why radical environmentalism is so decried in the media.

  79. Jin (仁) January 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    i infrequently watch ‘it’s the end of the world as we know it’ on submedia, but i always enjoy it, and the interviews involved.

  80. SnakeArmor January 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

    I’m not sure if Disinfo.com is the place where you want to talk about the scientific dictatorship that exists in this world. This site’s visitors are not very strong in the scientific realm. But that’s just my opinion. 

  81. Andrew January 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    Don’t pull your hair out!

  82. Anonymous January 14, 2012 at 1:25 am #

    I think I’ll settle for a grounding in basic physics and elementary logic, thanks.

  83. Anti_Secret_Squirrel January 14, 2012 at 6:56 pm #

    Kinda odd that you live in Northwest Florida.  I do too but I don’t have the privilege,ability, or funds to further my degree in science at the moment but have looked into an environmental science degree.  I am very into this type of stuff and totally agree with this article and your standpoint.  Most people are not at all educated on enviro issues and I do agree that teaching and requiring it in grades K-12 and also in college would help the up and coming generation understand what needs to be done.  My 2 year college in North Carolina that I transferred here from required that everyone take the basic environmental science class.  Out of sight, out of mind and ignorance is bliss really does not apply to something of this matter like the extinction of the human race and all other flora and fauna.  People really need to open their eyes and do their own research instead of relying solely on what the “mainstream” media feeds them.

  84. Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 11:25 pm #

    Yes so of course they are diametrically opposed…. Except on believing in the made up threat of “climate change”.  

    I would say you could summarize my post in that both people are genuinely disingenuous (at least Gore).  Perhaps they believe the mountains of AGW/Climate Change fear mongering propaganda.  To then write such a self possessed non ironic monologue documenting his personal, coming “jihad” against faux environmentalism (himself a massive example of just that if he is following the “climate change” paradigm that leads to cap and tax and lining Mr. Gore’s coffers along with his Goldman and Sach’s buddy David Blood.) 

    Then yes I am reminded of Al Gore pitching his bullshit propaganda in the form of non ironic “ironic” cameos that double as PSAdvertisments for enslaving mankind via manipulation and control over energy via the cap and tax scheme. 

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/30-rock-goes-green-al-gor_n_365321.html 
    (just keep in mind GE stands to very well if cap and tax (GOD FORBID) were ever passed.  If you don’t mind the war profiteer who spreads pestilence in the form of DU all over the middle east getting preachy about light bulbs and co2 emissions than I can’t really help you see my angle.

  85. Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 11:25 pm #

    Yes so of course they are diametrically opposed…. Except on believing in the made up threat of “climate change”.  

    I would say you could summarize my post in that both people are genuinely disingenuous (at least Gore).  Perhaps they believe the mountains of AGW/Climate Change fear mongering propaganda.  To then write such a self possessed non ironic monologue documenting his personal, coming “jihad” against faux environmentalism (himself a massive example of just that if he is following the “climate change” paradigm that leads to cap and tax and lining Mr. Gore’s coffers along with his Goldman and Sach’s buddy David Blood.) 

    Then yes I am reminded of Al Gore pitching his bullshit propaganda in the form of non ironic “ironic” cameos that double as PSAdvertisments for enslaving mankind via manipulation and control over energy via the cap and tax scheme. 

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/30-rock-goes-green-al-gor_n_365321.html 
    (just keep in mind GE stands to very well if cap and tax (GOD FORBID) were ever passed.  If you don’t mind the war profiteer who spreads pestilence in the form of DU all over the middle east getting preachy about light bulbs and co2 emissions than I can’t really help you see my angle.

  86. Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    I think I have watched maybe one entire episode (but I dont’ believe so) in it’s long drawn out quelude march through post 9/11 America.  I can still remember the sting and the stink and made the comparison accordingly.  Fake Yuppie Problems forced down everyone’s throat comes to mind.  I find it hard to believe you are an anarchist when you believe essentially whatever Al Gore is telling you to believe here.

  87. Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    I think I have watched maybe one entire episode (but I dont’ believe so) in it’s long drawn out quelude march through post 9/11 America.  I can still remember the sting and the stink and made the comparison accordingly.  Fake Yuppie Problems forced down everyone’s throat comes to mind.  I find it hard to believe you are an anarchist when you believe essentially whatever Al Gore is telling you to believe here.

  88. Camron Wiltshire January 14, 2012 at 11:30 pm #

    Yes so of course they are diametrically opposed…. Except on believing in the made up threat of “climate change”.  

    I would say you could summarize my post in that both people are genuinely disingenuous (at least Gore).  Perhaps they believe the mountains of AGW/Climate Change fear mongering propaganda.  To then write such a self possessed non ironic monologue documenting his personal, coming “jihad” against faux environmentalism (himself a massive example of just that if he is following the “climate change” paradigm that leads to cap and tax and lining Mr. Gore’s coffers along with his Goldman and Sach’s buddy David Blood.) 

    Then yes I am reminded of Al Gore pitching his bullshit propaganda in the form of non ironic “ironic” cameos that double as PSAdvertisments for enslaving mankind via manipulation and control over energy via the cap and tax scheme. 

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/30-rock-goes-green-al-gor_n_365321.html 
    (just keep in mind GE stands to very well if cap and tax (GOD FORBID) were ever passed.  If you don’t mind the war profiteer who spreads pestilence in the form of DU all over the middle east getting preachy about light bulbs and co2 emissions than I can’t really help you see my angle.

  89. Jin (仁) January 15, 2012 at 2:25 am #

    are you even reading what i am writing? what you’re writing? after you suggested i was racist against white people ( i am 40% “white” afterall) i realised it was pointless to enter into discussion with you, whether about ron paul (whom i don’t HATE btw, just have genuine criticisms of), the environment, politics, everything in general… So i apologise for baiting you, i will give you the space to post, and you should give the same to me, meaning: there is absolutely no reason why we should interact with eachother unless i comment on your specific articles or vice versa,

    thanks, jin.

  90. Jin (仁) January 15, 2012 at 2:28 am #

    “I find it hard to believe you are an anarchist when you believe essentially whatever Al Gore is telling you to believe here.”

    camron, you have no absolutely no basis to assert this ridiculous claim. it’s stuupid and offensive, you have no idea who i am, and NO ONE in their right mind claims anarchism as their political philosophy, defends it, it’s holistic paradigms, it’s anarchronistic and non western interpretations as i do, and is really a neo-liberal in disguise. i hate al gore. he is a puppet. that really has nothing to do with it. so please, kidd give me a f*cking break.

    jin

  91. Jin (仁) January 15, 2012 at 2:30 am #

    and ps. there is NOWHERE on the interweb more neo liberal than huffington post, and i refuse to visit that site after it was purchased by AOL (at one time, i was frequent and highly followed poster).

  92. Jin (仁) January 15, 2012 at 2:30 am #

    and ps. there is NOWHERE on the interweb more neo liberal than huffington post, and i refuse to visit that site after it was purchased by AOL (at one time, i was frequent and highly followed poster).

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