Christians Fight for Their Children’s God-Given Right to Bully Gay Kids

INRIWrites Erin Gloria Ryan on Jezebel:

Despite the fact that there’s scant evidence in the Bible that Jesus was an asshole who commanded his followers to bully gay children to death, a group of American Christian parents seem to think Christ has called upon them to act like jerks. That’s why they’re actively working against the passage of anti-bullying laws at the state level — they believe that by making repeated, ongoing cruelty illegal, lawmakers are interfering with their Jesus loving child’s right to point out that homosexuality is wrong and bad and hellbound.

“Bullying children is wrong and bad” may sound like the most basic tenet of human decency, but if you ask conservative lobbying groups like Concerned Women for America and Focus on the Family, making it a crime to taunt someone until they kill themselves is akin to interfering with religious freedom. According to AlterNet’s Katherine Stewart, conservative groups across the country have opposed various anti-bullying measures because they say outlawing bullying is akin to state endorsement of the homosexual lifestyle. You know, Madonna and glitter and buttsex and all-women’s softball teams all that. The homosexual lifestyle …

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  • fuck the world

    ahhh just spent my night watching startrek and am ripped back into reality, the only thing worse than christianity is islam, but hell im still trying to get my head around the 6 billion religious freaks on this planet, i think its sad ive resigned myself to getting through uni just to get a job that’ll allow me to smoke weed for the rest of my life, because hell, i dont wanna live on this shitty planet with these shitty people 

    • ColeTest

      You could start by not perpetuating hate yourself. Six billion people are religious “freaks”? Not all religions teach hate. I practice Thelema, for instance, which is a religion centered around discovering and doing your True Will, which represents the deepest expression of your innermost self. A very fundamental part of this is ensuring maximum individual liberty for everybody, regardless of their beliefs. Of course, their liberty does not extend to taking away the rights of others. Thelema also rejects a belief in the supernatural in favor of scientific method and skepticism.

      We use spiritual techniques to induce psychological states that are commonly referred to as “spiritual experiences,” in order that we can develop self knowledge and reach our full potential. We utterly reject dogma and faith; if a technique doesn’t work or isn’t useful, we don’t use it. If a technique does work and is useful, we keep it. This process has allowed us to scientifically determine how the subconscious mind works so that we can strip away psychological and cultural baggage and overcome its limitations. It works, by the way, through myths, symbols, and archetypes, which is why religion itself is specifically useful.

      So tell me, am I a “religious freak?” Even though I’m not superstitious and don’t believe in the supernatural? Even though I support maximum liberty for everyone without exception? 
      Stop your own hate for others first, then worry about the hate displayed by others.

      • http://twitter.com/alizardx A.Lizard

        Crowley’s anti-Christian bias and delight in pointing out Christian hypocrisy would have been considered a trifle extreme even by Richard Dawkins. You are defending the people who would make it illegal to practice Thelema and any other religion or spiritual method except for their own.

    • somegal

      Did somebody say lemonade, I’m in!

    • mannyfurious

      Yeah those Sufis are really terrible people with all their dancing and talk of universal love and acceptance….

  • Atheists unite

    then i get get my exercise to forcefully execute believes of god as per my new religion i just made up 

    • Jin The Ninja

      oh yes, more coersion and violence, that’ll solve everything … forcibly coersing those with different beliefs than your own to adopt your beliefs on threat of death. thus taking away their sovereignty of body and consciousness- you sound just like bigoted x’tians.

  • Yourmamamous

    some gay kids should start a gang to protect themselves from bullies … they could sing & dance like westside story & strike fear in the hearts of homophobic xtian bullies everywhere

    • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

      You mean, Glee?

  • Nofo

    sure bullying kids is not cool, but hold the fuck up — anti-bullying laws? we’re gonna start putting little kids in jail? how about just stop being shitty parents?

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

       How do you stop shitty parents?  Sorry, but the kids themselves have to take ownership of their violent behavior.  Jail is the perfect place for a sociopath of any age.

  • Mamagriff50

    What happened to love thy neighbor? Or is it love thy neighbor unless they’re gay? Or is it love thy neighbor only if they conform to your ideas? Just shut the fu*k up, and keep your stupidity to yourselves!

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    Turns out there’s already an anti-bullying law on the books:

    “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
    Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and
    with all your soul and with all your mind.’
    This is the first and greatest commandment.
    And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
    All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
    Matt. 22:36

    Since Christians are so good at Law #1
    maybe they can now focus on Law #2.

  • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

    I’m kind of done with the whole “Won’t somebody think of the Children!” justification. I think a lot of other people are too, especially my fellow non-breeders.

    So even if it is “Won’t somebody think of the Gay Children!”, I’m not buying any.

    The best solution for schoolyard bullying (especially among males) is and always has been a couple months of Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, etc classes. There are very good reasons, driven by evolutionary proceses, for “pecking orders” to be established by physical dominance.

    Does that offend our rarified 21st Century sensibilities?

    Almost certainly, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

    As far as the online censorship components of these anti-bullying measures go, I’m never in favor of the state censoring speech.

    • Andrew

      So if a teacher sees a group of fifth graders following a first grader and calling him “fag,” do you believe the teacher should do anything?

      • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

        Of course.

        • Andrew

          What?

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            That would depend on the specifics of the situation and the rules in place for that school district.

            At a minimum I’d want to see the 2 parties separated.

          • Andrew

            Should a police officer do something similar if he witnesses the same thing on the street?

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            That’s a slightly different matter.

            If a cop saw that going on, I think it would be prudent for him to at least stick around and make sure things didn’t escalate.

            Sadly, cops have a way of escalating things all on their own.

          • Andrew

            So as long as they follow the younger kid around and call him “fag” and such, say for ten or twenty minutes, while he’s crying and trying to get home, the cop shouldn’t intervene?

            What if the younger kid knows martial arts, and escalates things?  Should the cop prevent him from teaching them a lesson?

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            I get the feeling you’re gunning for me.

            This is way too hypothetical at this point and I think I’m going to drop out of this branch of the thread right here.

            No offense intended.

          • Andrew

             None taken.

          • somegal

            What was that called when the kids stayed after school for being bad and maybe have the parents called?  Children of that age group aren’t usually together are they?  Usually bullying is a sign something isn’t right at home.  And what if a group of gay kids are bullying a straight kid? The gay kids can be just as mean. Sexual orientation doesn’t make them automatically nice people that is a stereotype!  

          • Andrew

            I never said the kid getting called “fag” was gay.

          • somegal

            Big bully ;)

          • Jin The Ninja

            well there is  documented proof that glbtq kids are a targeted minority. i’ve never witnessed a hetero-normative person in school being targeted for being hetero-normative – the most subversive thing was a lez-girl i knew who called str8 boys ‘breeders’ in retailiation. that was obviously darkly humourous rather than aggressive.

          • somegal

            I don’t doubt you Ninja, seems to me though everyone these days is a target.   

          • Jin The Ninja

            but the fact is, ringing in at only 10% of the pop’n glbtq kids are far too small in number than to exert any lasting negative social force on hetero norm kids of their peer group.

          • somegal

            But is that all the heter communities fault?  The GLBTQ kids have a pecking order in their ranks too, they deal with all the same issues as heters plus one more.  What I’m saying is sometimes a misfit is a misfit it doesn’t matter what’s going on below the pants.  Can the sense of not belonging have a direct correlation with their sexual preference and not something a bit deeeper?  

          • Andrew

             Hetero boys do get targeted for being gay, however.

          • Jin The Ninja

            yes, and it’s the same sort of thing really. all about masculine/feminine gender roles- filtered through the dysfunctional lens of american popular culture. mostly meaningless.

      • Jin The Ninja

         personally, many teachers i knew never did anything or pretended not to know, when someone was being targeted.

        • Mamagriff50

          I’m 51 yrs. old, teachers ignored bullying back in my school years and from what I see and understand they still do. It’s easier to play ignorant than get involved.

          • Jin The Ninja

            it is easier. and it’s unfortunate that to be a better teacher/humanbeing requires psychological, career, and social hardship.

    • Adamsshadow

       “The best solution for schoolyard bullying (especially among males) is
      and always has been a couple months of Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, etc
      classes. There are very good reasons, driven by evolutionary proceses,
      for “pecking orders” to be established by physical dominance.”

      I agree with the first half of your statement, namely the solution, but I disagree with the second half of your statement, or your diagnosis of the problem. 

      Just because “pecking orders” have been decided by physical violence throughout history does not make the idea of hierarchy or the practice of enforcing it through violence any more correct; if anything, its social and cultural manifestations would be an argument against both concepts. 

      In practice, “might [often] makes right,” but in abstract that doesn’t automatically make the idea itself right. Isn’t it possible for the human race to evolve a better moral and ethical sense than “if you don’t like being pushed around, start pushing around the other party”? 

      • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

        I agree with what you’ve said here.

        Certainly to our sensibilities, Might shouldn’t make Right. The very notion offends my sense of fairness.

        My “very good reasons” relate to our evolutionary past. They made good sense in that context. I think it’s evident that while we currently find it repugnant, the strategy worked and here we all stand today.

        Many of those evolutionary reasons no longer obtain and we are developing a more “just” social fabric, but it is asking a lot to expect people and especially kids, to mature completely beyond such pre-programming.

        • Adamsshadow

           Point well-taken.

          And by the way, I really am in total agreement with helping LGBT kids stand up for themselves, both in a psychological and physical sense.  Gay kids shouldn’t have to learn to physically defend themselves from bullies and bigots, but you are right in that it’s a fact of life on the playground, particularly for gay males.  The quickest and most effective way for a gay boy (or girl) to stop some douchebag classmate from picking on them is to just thoroughly beat the bully’s ass once for good measure; I just wish it didn’t have to be that way.

          • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

            One of the funniest things I ever saw was at El Goya/Tracks in Ybor City. Some cracker wandered in and got into a fight with one of the Drag Queens.

            I don’t remember which one it was now, but I do remember what she said as he was carried off.

            “Go home and tell yo’ momma you just got your ass beat by a man in a dress!”

          • Jin The Ninja

            maybe vox can speak to this more, but in general, i find the older generations of glbtq people to be pretty scrappy (out of necessity).

          • Adamsshadow

             IMHO, yes and no; I know some fairly scrappy queer guys and gals about my age (late 20s/early 30s), and there’s a judo brown belt I’ve trained with who has no problem mixing it up inside or outside the dojo, and he will most definitely let you know he’s gay. 

            I should also add that while the martial arts tend to be somewhat homophobic on the surface, none of the people I’ve trained with (male or female) really give a shit either way. 

          • Jin The Ninja

            mid twenties also, and trained from a young age- mostly my teachers were very old fashioned chinese old men/women- issue of sexuality never came up- only after i developed an interest in sanshou (and had to train with mostly hardcore male fighters) did i see any kind of polarised gender roles.

          • Jin The Ninja

            double post.

      • mannyfurious

        I like this. Bullying and pecking orders tend to occur in closed and total institutions, such as schools and prisons. Maybe the lesson is that total institutions are against our evolutionary biology?

        • Jin The Ninja

          well yes.

    • Jin The Ninja

      i think there is nothing dishonourable or even immoral in the situation you propose. i was always glad i studied martial arts, although i was always interested in them to begin with b/c of my upbringing- rather than a sense of self-protection.

  • DeepCough

    Bullying is only considered bad now because there’s a pile of dead bodies–of teenagers, of course–connected to it.

    • Jin The Ninja

       exactly right. every queer or glbt person older than 25 knows this is/was the norm, that in 1995 the suicide rate for glbtq kids was the same as now, nothing has changed, only a false outrage.

      • http://www.ContraControl.com/ Zenc

        Do you think it’s false outrage, or do you think that people really are starting to get better about this sort of thing?

        I know that back when I was in grade school and where I grew up, “Fag” or “Queer” was probably the worst possible insult. If one kid called another kid that, it was likely to be an instant fistfight.

        Nowadays those words still sting, but just don’t seem to have the impact they did several decades ago.

        I sorta think (and hope) that’s because there’s far less stigma associated with homosexuality.

        That denotes a positive trend, I hope.

        • Jin The Ninja

          i think definitely there is more ‘acceptance’ and/or visibility of glbtq people-which is positive in that it normalizes them/us in a socio-cultural way (the problem arises when/if we acknowledge how dysfunctional that mainstream culture is) I think though, there is a very politically correct narrative derived in large part by mainstream glbtq organisations that does not in large part reflect large swathes of the glbtq pop’n. simply put, i think hetero normative people see glbtq people as a minority ‘culture’ that are asserting themselves for equal rights (fair enough)- and are focused on their trials and tribulations. i think the outrage is not entirely honest, because (a)- the stories that emerge about queer youth suicide are only a fraction of real life events- and like with other kinds of slacktivist outrage- everybody goes back to status quo at the end of the day. I think ‘equal rights’ is a misappellation of the gay rights movement as a whole, and as a queer person i am very disturbed by the trend of white male cis-gendered ‘spokespeople’/activists b/c believe it or not there is a very distinct hierarchy of race, gender, and gender identity in the glbtq ‘community’ – i think that sexuality and gender identity is far more multilayered and multi faceted than to be a single narrative. I am very happy to see though a generally positive acceptance of queer youth into the mainstream, but as i said, queer youth suicide has always been 2-3 times higher than that of heterosexual kids. it`s a problem that queer people have always contended with, but perhaps i am a bit jaded- maybe people are better than i am giving them credit for (?).

          • Redacted

            Eh. I didn’t have my epiphany regarding gays being alright until I was 16 or so. Probably helped that I didn’t have any real reason to hate gay people though, and someone made me realize how ridiculous acting like that for no reason was.

          • Jin The Ninja

            i think 16 is pretty young honestly- to recognise difference and reconcile with it. so i’m impressed.

          • Redacted

            Had a friend come out of the closet, and I could think of no reason to not keep on being their friend. It just sort of spiraled from there.

          • Jin The Ninja

            that position is a very ‘evolved’ one. many people can’t see beyond the singular identity sexuality is- compared to the other multitude of multi faceted ‘things’ that make us human.

        • somegal

          Really?  I thought fat and ugly was at the top of the list? 

    • somegal

      You got that right call me a “fag” any day!

  • Okarin

    i remember somewhere that the childrenhood years are the most important because kids just soak in everything around em and it causes pause for thought when this kind of behaviour is produced from kids taking everything in

  • http://twitter.com/RjukaMacTire Jory D. Riggs

    how barbaric can how society continue to get?

  • Mr Willow

    Tell you what. I’ll fight for your right to spew bigoted hatred, if you uphold my right to call you a homophobic asshole for doing so. 

    No?

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

       I hate to be a dick (not really) about this but you both have those rights.  Period.  Expect to held accountable, however.

  • David Cosgrove

    The right to bully is an integral part of teaching people their place in the system. No serious attempt will ever be made to stop it or to enforce legislation supposedly passed to prevent it. Most of us therefore never leave behind who we were shaped to be in the schoolyard. Such is life. Know your place or put yourself in harms way.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/SDGHYKRODBXAIPWTZPPUUMCOAI Ray

    “acting like jerks” would be things like talking in a movie theater and cutting in line.  Using religion as an excuse to abuse (not hurting feelings and annoying people, but degrading and destroying their psyches) is sociopathology.

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