The Wild Conspiracy Theory Driving The Fast And Furious Investigation

For those of you who still think “Fast and Furious” is a Vin Diesel movie, here’s the current meaning explained by Annie-Rose Strasser for Think Progress:

Here is a theory that some Congressional Republicans believe: The Obama Administration intentionally handed over automatic weapons to Mexican drug cartels, who they knew would commit violent acts, because they wanted to scare Americans into supporting stricter gun laws.

That supposed series of events has now led Congress to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt.

Holder is caught up in a scandal over what happened during Operation Fast and Furious, one in a series of efforts started under former President Bush, in which firearms owned by the U.S. government are intentionally sold to criminals with the hopes that they can be traced back, and criminal activity can be monitored. One such firearm turned up at the crime scene where border patrol agent Brian Terry was killed.

Republicans cite the case as a national security issue, but they’ve simultaneously turned it into an indictment over what they believe is a conspiracy aimed at taking away their own firearms. They argue that this was all a ploy to expose how dangerous guns can be. Here are the facts you should know about the conspiracy, and who’s behind it:

The man who started the conspiracy theory also rallied people to break congressional windows. Mike Vanderboegh, a man who once called for militias to break the windows of members of Congress because of the passage of the Affordable Care Act, started this conspiracy theory

[continues at Think Progress]


Majestic is gadfly emeritus.

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84 Comments on "The Wild Conspiracy Theory Driving The Fast And Furious Investigation"

  1. Anarchy Pony | Jun 23, 2012 at 5:57 pm |

    It may not be a conspiracy to steal all of america’s guns, but it was a really bad fucking idea.

    • You beat me to it.

    • Jesse Taylor | Jun 24, 2012 at 10:37 pm |

      It’s not be a conspiracy to steal all of America’s guns, it’s a conspiracy to smuggle arms to allied drug cartels that will do dirty work for the U.S. in Mexico. Same as when they were smuggling arms during the Contra scandal. Same as when Holder’s legal clients were smuggling shiploads of arms to narco-trafficking death squads in Colombia. Nothing new here. He just got busted and said “Oh, what a mistake, we were just trying to track them, and we unfortunately ‘lost’ them somehow. Such a shame.”

  2. This is a conspiracy for simpleminded dumb Alex Jones / Drudge report readers the reality is much greater. This is by no means a new phenomenon to Mexico it has been happening for decades all over South America The Caribbean and Africa the reality is the people and corporations that want to capitalise over a resource whether that be Drugs /Oil / Diamonds or any other resource prefer to create lawless states so they can go about business unregulated and undetected.

  3. Marklar_Prime | Jun 23, 2012 at 6:29 pm |

     Not very wild at all to think that an emerging oppressive fascist state would conspire to disarm it’s citizenry. It would be historically unique if they didn’t.

    • mysophobe | Jun 24, 2012 at 12:47 am |

      Anyone who thinks the US populace mounting an organized resistance, even with every able-bodied person armed to the teeth, would slow down a fleet of billion dollar killing machines one iota has been watching too many Steven Seagall movies. The more likely outcome would be that armed white Christain Americans, formed into state-sanctioned citizen militias, would assist the fascist state in rounding up whatever subaltern du jour the state wanted to rally the populace against. Imagine the Minutemen Project on steroids. Wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

      • so, speaking of conspiracy fantasies … 

        • mysophobe | Jun 24, 2012 at 1:57 am |

          As a rationale [sic] person yourself, I’m sure you realize that a ruling class can only move a democracy towards a fascist state with the combined will of the “true children of the fatherland”, so to speak. Obama could never accomplish this for that reason alone. The real fascists call him a radical socialist or a communist, that’s what fascists do. He may very well be a convenient vehicle of change, but he’s not going to be part of the endgame. Just wait until the next neocon pres begins “undoing Obama’s radical socialist policies”, that’s when the magic happens.

          • which they are hoping will be Rand, right? ain’t gonna happen…. that whole awkward ploy blew up in their face.

      • Camron Wiltshire | Jun 24, 2012 at 1:09 am |

        Sounds like a comic book.  How about this.  Only with the US armed services forgetting their sworn oaths to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC would any such nightmare be possible.  I tend to think more of our servicemen and women and in my conversations with them many are very aware of the undercurrents percolating and exponentially growing in their circles.  I’ve had men in fatigues tell me straight up they knew 9/11 was an inside job and that they were aware of the push for global governance.  I’ve also heard a few pledge to fight the NWO if they ever tried anything with the army against the American people.  

        OathKeepers is just one concrete example of this awareness and movement. 

        • mysophobe | Jun 24, 2012 at 2:47 am |

          History has shown that it’s surprisingly easy to convince a loyal faction that the enemy is among us. The groundwork has already been laid for that. The lines would not be as clearly drawn as you suggest. It would be shock doctrine on a massive scale centered around a seemingly unifying tragic event or chain of events. Fracture the military forces into loyalists and free thinkers by simply leveling false charges or claims of rogue soldiers and officers raping and killing. Shit, just tell one division that another is attempting a military coup and let them wipe each other out. We’ve already been conditioned to believe that our enemies are hiding among us and are capable of untold destruction, and we’ve proven that we’re willing to suspend disbelief in the face of evidence to the contrary and even cheer on the surrender of our constitutional rights as a result. No country has ever mounted a meaningful resistance to a well-orchestrated totalitarian takeover, rather they have welcomed it with open arms without even knowing it. We wouldn’t be any different. I’m not saying this is where we are headed, just that it’s not done in baby steps. One does not simply slide into totalitarian fascism like an old man into a bath. Once the populace is properly conditioned to accept it the endgame has to happen quickly out of necessity.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jun 24, 2012 at 6:38 pm |

            You say that “History has shown that it’s surprisingly easy to convince a loyal faction that the enemy is among us.”  Which historical examples stand out to you? 

            Which most closely parallel the “armed white Christain Americans, formed into state-sanctioned citizen militias, [who] would assist the fascist state in rounding up whatever subaltern du jour”?

          • mysophobe | Jun 24, 2012 at 8:50 pm |

            1930’s Italy and Germany were quite good at turning their military and paramilitary forces against their own citizens. All the had to do was convince them that anyone not fully invested in their brand of nationalism was an enemy of their way of life and they did their patriotic duty. Just look at how many we’ve killed in the name of noble causes that turned out to be lies. Successfully convince soldiers that they’re the good guys and instill them with a lust for revenge (justice) and they’ll do just about anything you ask them to. That’s not a knock on soldiers, it’s simply human nature. We dehumanize people in far off lands on a regular basis, is it really that much of a stretch that we could dehumanize segments of our own population?

            The closest parallel to theoretical Christian militias would probably be the ethnic cleansings that go on in various parts of Africa from time to time. During difficult times we humans tend to demonize and prey on weaker groups. We justify it in any number of ways but usually we do it in the name of security. If there are no real enemies we invent them, sometimes for no other reason than to have a unifying cause and occupy our time and resources. I’m just a dude on the Internet and I don’t claim to have any answers, and I by no means think any of this is remotely likely to play out. What I’ve mainly been getting at is that guns or no guns probably isn’t much of a concern for those who would bring fascism to America. More likely, our unique love affair with guns would be reason for a unique brand of fascism where our guns act as a pacifier and security blanket to distract us from what the other hand is doing. Just look at all the people who believe their guns will protect them from fascism. That’s exactly what they would want you to think. The fascists wouldn’t come for your guns simply because it would turn you against them, but they sure would try to convince you that their enemies would.

          • TennesseeCyberian | Jun 25, 2012 at 3:12 am |

            I hadn’t considered the African Evangelicals.

          • The problem is that the public awakening is happening so quickly that they are having to push their agenda that much faster, which leaves too much room for error and sloppiness in their haste. The issue isn’t whether they will trip over their own shoelaces, but when and how. Regardless, it is obvious which side is in retreat here. I don’t think there’s very much to be worried about at all. It will collapse in upon itself in due time, and meanwhile we can just sit back and wait and watch as the awakening occurs. We live in very fascinating times and I feel lucky to get to be a spectator in all this. 

      • Jesse Taylor | Jun 24, 2012 at 10:28 pm |

        Vietnam war, anyone? (That is, how did that “fleet of killing machines” do there?)

        • mysophobe | Jun 25, 2012 at 1:34 am |

          1,100,000 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers killed for the cost of 60,000 US servicemen. That’s with armaments that were out of the stone age compared to what we have today. In the mean time an AK-47 is still an AK-47. For a more modern example of what they’re capable of look at Iraq. In the initial invasion alone, 30,000 Iraqi regulars and paramilitary killed at the cost of 172 American lives. Our boys are pretty damn good at what they do. Imagine what they’d be capable of without the meddling UN, peacenik politicians and an unsympathetic press corps mucking things up.

          • Jesse Taylor | Jun 25, 2012 at 2:03 am |

             It’s a little different here in the U.S. — In Vietnam, they could carpet bomb villages. The military would disintegrate if they were ordered to do the same here.

          • mysophobe | Jun 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |

            I agree, that would be unthinkable. I’m more making the case that our guns would be useless against the kind of weaponry our military possesses. In reality I doubt there would be much resistance from the populace at all. I mean, how many Americans have taken up arms against the government over what they’be done in the past ten years? All we need is another catalyzing event and another Patriot act and we’ll all go like docile sheep to the slaughter. We’ve willingly surrendered the 1st and 4th amendments f, why would the 2nd or the entire Constitution be any different

          • I have to disagree with you on this point.

            The U.S. Military just “lost” a war in Iraq and we’re fixing to “Declare Victory and Retreat” from Afghanistan as well.

            These are two entirely current examples of how well our military has fared against a lower tech, yet entrenched, enemy.

            Clearly, we could have killed everyone in those two countries if the political will existed to do so, but it did not. We only had the political will to kill the “Bad Guys” and it was made clear that we were unable to accomplish that.

            Likewise, large scale massacres in the U.S. by our Military is also politically unsupportable (not to mention the individual resistance to such an act by our Troops). Therefore such a conflict in the U.S. would take much the same form as the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan just did and likely with much the same results.

          • mysophobe | Jun 25, 2012 at 2:58 pm |

            Yeah, I’m admittedly a bit in the weeds on this one. I do believe that Americans insisting that American fascism will follow some sort of fascist play book creates a huge blind spot. I stand by my assertion that when if and when it comes, most white Christians will embrace it with open arms. It would be tailored specifically to appease the majority of people, it has to or it would fail.

          • mysophobe | Jun 25, 2012 at 3:14 pm |

            I don’t think the middle east engagements are any indication of our military’s ability to put down a resistance here in the US. Many here have assault rifles but there aren’t stockpiles of old cold war and desert storm munitions laying around as there are in the war zones there. We’d have very few RPG’s and a limited supply of IED material, the two things that tore us up over there. Also counterinsurgency wasn’t necessarily the primary goal in Iraq and Afghanistan, controlling the country and it’s resources was. In a warped way, the continuing insurgency created the chaos necessary for us to control the resources. A US resistance movement would be used similarly. A nuisance but not a real threat.

      • One reason the right is perfectly comfortable letting the glazed-eyed, drooling sector own as many guns as they want is that they know, exactly as you say, that these guys can heave their arsenals on their backs and charge out into the street, and it won’t make one little bit of difference.

      • Well, it will make ONE little bit of difference:  Lots of armed menaces and lots of innocent bystanders will die unnecessarily.  But that’s nothing the TeaGOP would weigh in the balance; it’s nothing to them.

      • Well, as far as who the government would like to “round up”, they have both Occupy and the Tea Party to deal with, two movements that hold sympathies with both our political parties. And we live in an extremely volatile political climate, so that any attack against either side of the equation means roughly 50% of our population rebelling, aiding, or abetting in some way. Americans are as emotionally bound up with their fake red vs. blue teams as they are with any other football game. The genius of the irony being that the bipartisan dissension the system sowed in order to control us better is backfiring upon itself. … Also, while the military-industrial complex happens to vastly outnumber the general public as far as sheer ammunition and technology, you have to consider which politicians and which political ideas the *individual members* of our military are donating the most money to… the power of a gun is worthless if you can’t control who pulls the trigger. 

    •  In that case first they would start with laws that allowed the indiscriminate use of guns, like stand your ground laws which basically legalise gun duels. With more and more shooting and innocent victims it allows the swing back affect of laws, not just removing the law but going further to control, so the Republicans are the ones conspiring to remove guns from the streets by first flooding the streets with guns.

    • TennesseeCyberian | Jun 24, 2012 at 6:29 pm |

      Can you give some historical examples–besides Nazi Germany–of fascist (or Communist) states conspiring to disarm its citizenry?

    • That is so stupid.  Can you not see that the “take away your guns” has been a smoke screen for whatever the far right has wanted, for a generation or more, and it never happens and never could?  

      If you are looking for conspirators, look to the people who warn you (for your own good, of course) that you should buy more guns and ammo because they’re about to be TAKEN AWAY!!!  The corporate gun manufacturers who make out like bandits every time they push the panic button for their mindless followers to run right over and bring money.

      You know the NRA is a high-ranking member of ALEC, right?  The zillionaire, pseudo-fascist crowd that has been changing laws in every state to effectively deprive us of our rights?  

      Then you should be able to understand that the tortured argument that “Obama (or whoever) just keeps giving you more and more, looser and looser gun rights as a trick to take away your guns” is used in every election just to get you and your friends to vote for the candidate of their choice, having been made afraid not to.

  4. sam23sirius | Jun 23, 2012 at 6:46 pm |

    Think Progress? Really? Anyhoo, that is pretty much what happened. What the right wing types won’t tell you is it is business as usual. Iran Contra anyone?

    • Marklar_Prime | Jun 23, 2012 at 7:08 pm |

       Not really an apt analogy considering that Mexico is already a place where the rich can exploit every natural resource with impunity and with no consideration for the vast majority of it’s population. There’s really nothing for our corporations to gain by destabilizing Mexico that they can’t simply have for the asking.

      • sam23sirius | Jun 23, 2012 at 11:03 pm |

        350 billion of mexican drug cartel money laundered through american banks….

        • Marklar_Prime | Jun 24, 2012 at 11:09 pm |

           As if failing to arm the drug cartels would lead to less drug money for the banks to launder, LMAO

          • sam23sirius | Jun 25, 2012 at 12:10 am |

            You asked for an example of how our corporations benefited from destabilizing Mexico. I simply provided one. 

  5. Thefuriousfounder | Jun 23, 2012 at 7:01 pm |

    I struggle to see how this can be called a conspiracy theory. Firstly, ou have Obama personally saying he is working on gun control “under the radar” (google it, his words not mine) and then you have Eric Holder giving fanatical speeches for years lobbying for gun control and saying that people need to be “brainwashed” against guns. Again, these are not my words. Taken as a whole it is obvious that both Obama and Holder are rabid gun control supporters. Based on their words and now their actions this is not a conspiracy theory, just a conspiracy. This operation was never about tracking the arms, in fact no effort whatsoever was made to do so. This operation was solely to give US guns to criminals and then as they used them to kill, cry foul and push for more gun regulation. The purpose of this operation was to create a crisis and an excuse for more laws against guns. This is your President America….

  6. I don’t think it’s all that “wild” of a conspiracy theory when even CBS news has done a story that backs it up:
    “Documents: ATF used “Fast and Furious” to make the case for gun regulations”

  7. Oh man, coming for those guns. I better get a fresh pair of depends out. I should probably also test my blood glucose using this government funded meter, while I drive to the bakery to buy more (government funded) doughnuts using my government funded Rascal scooter. I sure am glad I’m an educated Republican who hates that daggone socialist nazi muslim atheist Obama.

    • charlieprimero | Jun 23, 2012 at 11:10 pm |


    • I hate Obama for executing Americans without trial. Do I have a place in your myopic Red-Blue world?

      • No, but thanks for playing spot the satire. You failed.

        But you seem the type who is used to failure.

    • My comment has brought far more fruit than I intended. Hilarious.

      • ElevenSeventeen | Jun 25, 2012 at 10:19 am |

        I think people just get angry when they point out a disturbing fact and then someone makes a joke about it, try’s trolling them, or belittles them because of it. We all try to make jokes and be witty when we can, but with a serious situation, such as having a Marxist dictator like Obama (Barry Soetoro) in the presidency, it can be offensive.

        FYI – Generally, I love your posts.

    • Jesse Taylor | Jun 24, 2012 at 10:43 pm |

      Yes, it’s crazy to think that Obama is coming after everyone’s guns. He outspends Bush on the military. Global arms sales are actually at their highest point ever under Obama ( He’s an arms trafficker’s wet dream. To claim that Obama is “anti-gun” is absurd. The only guns Obama wants to regulate are those of citizens here in the U.S., and this is small fraction of the gun market. There will be plenty of guns left in the hands of the military, the police, and the criminal syndicates & warlords that work for the CIA.

  8. I know it’s hard for Majestic not to be pulled by the forces the establishment wants – either to the left or right. But, is it possible for me to think Holder should be deported to a Mexican jail without buying into a conspiracy theory that only exists in the minds of the Luke Rudkowski and Abby Martins of the world? 

    The fact is at least one American citizen is confirmed dead with a F&F weapon. I don’t care about the conspiracy aspects, I care about that. 

    More and more disinfo is simply a collage of extreme left and extreme right-wing conspiracy and counter-conspiracy theories. It is the very model of disinformation. 

  9. Mrs. Mordor | Jun 23, 2012 at 11:26 pm |

    Let me get this straight – “Majestic” … who has posted more than his share of wild rants about the Bilderbergs being a secret cabal destined to turn the globe into a slave race answering to alien reptiles here on disinfo … is now complaining about “those durn conspiracy nutters!”? 

    So, to recap: 
    – The liberal disinfo posters are convinced their favorite politicians are voices of Reason battling conservative conspiracy nutjobs, when, in fact, it’s really the conservatives engineering the conspiracy! – The conservative disinfo posters are convinced their favorite politicians are voices of Reason having to battle liberal conspiracy nutjobs, when, in fact, it’s really the liberals engineering the conspiracy! 


    • No.

    • Camron Wiltshire | Jun 24, 2012 at 1:05 am |

      To much muck to sort through.  Nice strawman gauntlet.  No point in arguing with this as it is entirely meaningless and your own fabrication.

      • Mrs. Mordor | Jun 24, 2012 at 1:09 am |

        If you click on the little red highlights on the post author’s name that will bring you to past posts. You can then scroll through them to your little heart’s content to see all of majestic’s ranting about the Bilderberg reptile UFO Bigfoot conspiracy or whatever the hell it is … alternatively you can just snort, take a bite of your Twinkie, say “yer own fabrication!” and then dutifully go off and vote for Obama to kill more people in drone strikes and leave it at that. 

        Either will work! 

        • Camron Wiltshire | Jun 24, 2012 at 1:14 am |

          Mordor just stop.  Killing the messenger is a known logical fallacy and has nothing to do with the facts presented.  Or more explicitly let’s say enough with the circumstantial ad hominem attack.  

          • Mrs. Mordor | Jun 24, 2012 at 1:22 am |

            What facts did you present? You stormed in, looked around, huffed and puffed, got red in the face, yelled “I DON’T HAVE TIME FOR THIS – THAT’S ALL YOUR FABRICATION!” and then stormed back out. 

            The only facts at play are that majestic is a conspiracy nutter who is accusing others of being conspiracy nutters. It’s all a bit nutty, if you ask me. 

  10. Yes, Holder should be allowed to keep documents secret, from the public. We plebes will just get confused if we see them and that could cause us to lose faith in the regime. I agree with Majestic, keep secret documents secret! I will heartily join the calls of opposing those who support disclosure by screaming at them “conspiracy theorist!”, “big business supporter!” and “pedophile!” The government needs our support, gang. Let’s do all we can to support them keeping these files away from our eyes.

  11. WinstonSmith | Jun 24, 2012 at 12:40 am |

    Correct me if I’m wrong here (and I bet that I am, for some) but didn’t Bush I sell weapons to Arab nations in the 90’s 80’s? And then there was the Gulf War, right? Now Obama kinda does the same thing but in a different context. So Republicans or Democrats, in the end it’s always the same stuff, right? Who cares anymore? Fuck it! Why even publish the article? Why?  I was little then (Gulf War) so forgive me for not remembering and not doing research to write an eloquent comment, but this sort of bullshit keeps going on… conspiracy or not (it’s not, it’s a real thing that really happened, but lets just call it that so it can be marginalized and labeled as “crazy-stuff-most-people-won’t-believe-therefore-keeping-the-public-ignorant) I don’t care anymore… just, why? Why?

  12. Contemporary politics is getting stranger and stranger…

  13. Well… if a regular person, you know, a citizen did the same thing and sold assault weapons to Mexican gangsters, what would Eric Holder do to them?

  14. PS

    I’m not sure what the rest of the ranting and babbling is about below.  It would however not be unprecedented for covert US actors to arm drug gangs if their intent is to a) destabilize a country, b) help them eliminate competitors so that profits flow the correct way, or c) use them as a Contra like paramilitary proxy force, trading guns for drugs (as revealed in the Iran/Contra scandal)

  15. This is the stupidest damn thing in a long list of stupid damn things done by Conservatives who know full well their ideology will do nothing to produce actual jobs, so they’re grasping at straws to distract people from that fact.

    Can we just give these asshats the South, let them go turn it into the Mad Max Apocalyptic Wasteland that they all long for, while the rest of us can move into the 21st Century, while we raise funds to help refugees from the decimated Conservative territories.

    I know we celebrate Lincoln for trying to unite the country, but I think that was a huge fracking mistake. We should have conquered them to shut them up and rescued all the black folk down there from slavery, then let them separate and drop dead.

    • Sorry, I just have to do this as a function of being an asshole…

      ” rescued all the black folk down there from slavery”

      What about the slaves in the North?

      Maybe Lincoln could have freed them first as sort of a “lead by example” thing?

      Surely there is no moral high ground in invading someone to free the slaves they hold, when you can walk out back and strike off a few chains there first.

  16. Nobody’s trying to take your stupid guns, you NRA nimrods. 

    We SHOULD because clearly you’re too stupid to own one responsibly, but we long ago realized that letting you have guns radically increases the change that you’ll shoot yourselves or one of your family members, thus THINNING THE HERD of low-grade morons in the society.

    It’s like pouring bleach into the shallow end of the gene pool.

    This is about the idiocy of the drug war. Now if you want to discuss the merits of de-criminalizing drug usage, and taxing the fuck out of it, then you’ve got me. But when you drift off into this rightwing lunacy about the black guy trying to take your guns, you lose me utterly.

  17. Brandenorourke | Jun 24, 2012 at 10:05 pm |

    I’m Texan… you gotta take the gun out of my hand.. scare the public all you want. my bullet says more than words!

  18. Jesse Taylor | Jun 24, 2012 at 10:31 pm |

    What’s ridiculous is the motive they are attributing to Holder. It’s not that he’s trying to “enact stricter gun control laws”. His motive is the same as usual — i.e. the same as it was when they were doing this back during the whole Iran-Contra mess — funnel arms to allied cartels, so they can smoke people the U.S. government doesn’t like in Mexico.

    Holder, by the way, has been pretty cozy with narco-trafficking death squads for a while now. Take a look at the work he did defending Chiquita when they were taking shiploads of small arms to Colombia to support death squads there.

    However, it’s rather hypocritical of the Republicans to be criticizing Holder for this — they support death squads in Latin America too. Slaughtering third-world peasants is one of those tasks that both parties can agree to work together on.

  19. Picnic Anyone?? | Jun 25, 2012 at 2:23 am |

    The country is going to hell in a hand-basket. 

  20. Off Topic | Jun 25, 2012 at 12:29 pm |

    Someone should post the news about Obama’s real father, Frank Marshall Davis. If someone has the time to review the evidence, as I have. 

  21. Holder has openly expressed his desire to brainwash the public so that we won’t think guns are “cool”.

  22. Reading through the comments section, I’m so glad to discover that a growing number of liberals are becoming hip to the importance of the 2nd amendment. I think our Occupy movement witnessing what happened to unarmed citizens in the Arab Spring helped illustrate the point. 

  23. People should demand the prosicution of Holder & OBAMA , charging them with second degree MURDER. If they are found GUILTY would be an act of TREASON, punishable by DEATH, or LIFE IN PRISON.

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