All Empire State Bystander Shooting Victims Were Shot By Police

An update from city authorities reveals that the tragedy by the Empire State Building this past Friday consisted of a disgruntled man murdering his former boss, followed by NYPD officers shooting nine bystanders. CNN reports the jaw-dropping details:

On a busy Friday morning in Manhattan, nine pedestrians suffered bullet or fragment wounds after police unleashed a hail of gunfire at a man wielding a .45 caliber pistol who had just killed a former co-worker.

The officers unloaded 16 rounds in the shadow of the Empire State Building at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities said.

Three passersby sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, according to New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. All injuries were caused by police, he said Saturday.

15 Comments on "All Empire State Bystander Shooting Victims Were Shot By Police"

  1. wadda an homo

  2. CopsCantShootStraight | Aug 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm |

    9 out of 16 hit people … wow. Maybe these cops need more target practice?

  3. If NYPD’s aim is to Serve and Protect, then they’d better improve their aim. Must’ve been ricochet central down there.

  4. mannyfurious | Aug 27, 2012 at 3:38 pm |

    But I don’t understand. People trained to use guns never fuck up. That’s why the Aurora shooting would’ve never happened if some of the people in the theater had guns with them…..

  5. Calypso_1 | Aug 27, 2012 at 6:02 pm |

    If you look at the video there is a round concrete planter directly behind the assailant which most likely caused most of the bullet ricochets that hit bystanders – hard to take into account as a responder.  The officer that is closest to the assailant maintains a good two handed weaver stance and is within 15ft of the target.  The other officer correctly sectors out taking his partner out of his line of site.  He then however begins firing one handed, backpedaling while cowering to a distance of 30ft – clearly a fear response.
    They are trained not to step back like this; you tend to find yourself on your back staring at the sky.  .45’s are rather difficult to maintain accuracy with one hand.  I’d be willing to bet that the direct hit bystander casualties came from officer #2 who defiantly needs remedial training.

  6. cryptnotic | Aug 27, 2012 at 6:51 pm |

    The NYPD issues a special version of the Glock pistol with a 12 pound trigger pull.  That means that to pull the trigger to shoot, the officer has to squeeze the trigger with a force of 12 pounds.  A standard Glock has a trigger pull of 3.5 pounds.  

    A heavier trigger makes it more difficult for the officer to keep the gun on target while they pull the trigger.  It also makes it harder for them to shoot themselves in the leg when they draw their weapon, making it cheaper for training and cheaper for medical treatments and pensions for injured officers. 

    Basically, NYPD issues an unsafe gun to its police force to save money on training and benefits.  Innocent bystanders shot by police are the victims of this policy.  

    NYPD will be sued over this. 

    • Calypso_1 | Aug 27, 2012 at 7:55 pm |

      It’s still a double action – that increased pull is only on the first shot.  Still a good point.

      • cryptnotic | Aug 27, 2012 at 8:09 pm |

        I’m not familiar with the NYPD version but the other Glocks I have used are all single-action.

        • Calypso_1 | Aug 28, 2012 at 10:26 am |

          OK, without trying to turn this into an extended thread appropriate for a firearms forum let me explain what I meant.  Glocks are neither SA nor DA.  They are striker fired action.  The ATF and most police agencies classify them as DA for political purposes.  I was taught to think, for simplicity sake in operating them, as DA because of the trigger mechanism.  The pull (weight) produced by the spring is constant.  But the pull (force) also involves the amount of travel required to fire.  Because you have a two stage safety in the trigger on initial pull in a Glock you don’t have to fully release the trigger thus greatly reducing the required travel.  You essentially have a two stage trigger.  Yes the pull weight is the same, but the force is reduced on the second shot if you are trained properly.  Most of the deviation in shot accuracy produced in trigger pull is in the initial travel because this is where the most leverage is applied.  If you do not reengage the trigger safety and stay within the 1/8” required for trigger reset you’re not going to have a lot of pull inaccuracy. 

    • charlieprimero | Aug 27, 2012 at 10:19 pm |

      Interesting.  Thanks. 

      Cops are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, but 12 pounds is absurd.

      • Perhaps there are some cops who aren’t the “sharpest knives in the drawer”, but as the wife of a cop in Madison, WI, I can tell you that in this year’s class of recruits, every single one has at least a Bachelors’ degree. Several have Masters’ degrees, and one has a PhD. They had around 1700 applications for 18 spots — it’s a very rigorous hiring process.

        Granted, having book smarts doesn’t necessarily mean you have street smarts.

        I wonder what kind of training the NYPD has. Madison police go through 4 months of academy and do spend quite a bit of time on learning to shoot. Then they have 5 months of field training. My husband told me once how much pressure you need to fire his Glock, but I can’t remember. It definitely wasn’t 12 pounds – more like 4 or so I think.

        Anyway, my whole point was that we can’t assume the cops were stupid, or that cops just suck in general, etc etc etc. Obviously the guns were an issue – and maybe their training was lacking. Or maybe it was that one specific cop who had a problem. But putting a blanket statement out that “cops are not the sharpest knives in the drawer” really and truly does a disservice to the vast majority of cops who are smart, brave people who see the underbelly of our society on a day-to-day basis, and still want to go to work to protect their community.

        •  The vast majority of cops are not smart or brave.  If they were they were smart they would realize the immorality of enforcing unjust laws.  If they were brave, they would quit law enforcement and find a moral way to earn a living.

  7. Well I can tell you here in Alberta most of the cops use around %10-20 of their allocated training rounds, (this comes from former/current cops I know) I don’t think it would be that much different in other areas including the states as most BwB’s get their gun and instantly think they have the power of god and don’t have to practice using it.

  8. yeah, it’s bad form to do this on the street
    but those two cops win all the Kewpie Dolls
    when they shoot in the shooting galleries at the Jersey Shore

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