First Time Taking Ayahuasca in Peru on The Joe Rogan Experience

A synergistic plant teacher to redeem mankind?  Another hippy escape hatch?  Whatever you make of Ayahuasca, her roots are deep and her branches are percolating through the concrete of suburban dementia as we live and breathe.  Imagine a world where psychic disease is understood as a symptom of the larger malfunctioning of modern society, and those stricken with this ‘star sickness’ can reconnect en masse as part of a larger community devoted to love, healing and transformation.  In the immortal words of John Lennon,

You may say that I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one

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  • Monkey See Monkey Do

    I think psychedelic drugs can change you, for better or worse, based on set and setting. You can’t deny that people in elite positions wouldn’t try it, they probably have, and it probably changed them, for better or worse..
    On the other hand, capitalism is a persistent infection/meme/idea thats hard to eradicate even with use of a psychedelic drug. The best thing I was ever been told by a shaman in Peru was ‘its not about the ayahuasca and it never was’. What is it about then? For the life and love of me I couldn’t tell you because I don’t know, and I bet you don’t know either.

    • The only thing to get is money

      Another hippy escape hatch?- taken from the description above
      Oh and the answer to that question is, yes. Now mind you, I am not against drugs. But I am against those who claim that the consumption of certain drugs will bring peace and utopia.

      • mahajohn

         Have you ever consumed ayahuasca? Do you know anything about the anthropological understanding of its use? From even a completely materialistic perspective, the simple truth is that regular ayahuasca users demonstrate lower instances of psychopathologies, and score noticeably better on neurological assessments of attention and memory. In other words, people who use ayahuasca regularly are better off than people who do not.

        I would recommend drinking ayahuasca in a ritual setting before you make arrogant statements about what this medicine can and cannot do. Perhaps you, like many people before you, will also come to the conclusion that this substance – or ‘medicine’ as it is called – could actually be something like a panacea to the pervasive alienation that defines our culture. Do I think this WILL happen? In all likelihood no, but we’d be better off if we adopted it, just like our culture would be better off if we were all trained in yoga and martial arts in public schools from the earliest ages.

        • The only thing to get is money

          Haha are you serious dude?  

          “just like our culture would be better off if we were all trained in yoga and martial arts in public schools from the earliest ages.”-
          mahajohn

          Did you really write this? This is a joke right? 

          Go look at the cultures and people that produced those things and look at the state of affairs they are in, and then come back to me.

          • mahajohn

            I know you’re just a reactionary troll, so this hardly deserves a follow-up, but I’m taking the bait! 

            The cultures that “produced those things” are irrelevant to the unquestionable reality of their objective and subjective benefits. Would you deny that yoga is by-and-large beneficial for those individuals who practice it? Are you suggesting that martial arts practices are a waste of time and energy? You’ve already spouted some pretty uninformed ignorance here about ayahuasca from the comfort of your armchair, so perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised.

            We live in a culture that increasingly values willful ignorance of reality over true education, that glorifies personal and organized violence in the service of individual and state goals, that is so full of desperation that upwards of 30,000,000 Americans are on dangerous anti-depressant drugs, and is so culturally and politically divided that antagonistic internecine rhetoric has reached the level of public threats of death and violence against perceived enemies.  I’d much rather have a modern, evolved culture in which children and adolescents were inculcated with teachings and practices that encourage attention to healthy habits, attainment of emotional well being, empowerment and mastery of body and mind, and above all, a sense of community and brotherhood with each other and Nature at large. I’m not suggesting it would necessarily bring world peace, but it would a revolutionary culture unlike any that has yet existed on planet Earth.

          • The only thing to get is money

            What the hell did I just read? Haven’t most all cultures on the earth tried this approach? The so-called peaceful, spiritual, holistic approach? Culture is NEVER revolutionary. Revolution, the technical term, simply means turning. So it’s literally more of the same. That’s what you want. The ideals are always so lofty, the reality is that those high ideals have lead to the drear we have now.

            And how am I a reactionary troll when have I ever engaged in troll behavior?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/YK6QQFZYU4KCVXZEKC4NLGLLQY mr_innocent

             yes because a caste system is the mark of an advanced society

          • mahajohn

             Where did I mention a caste system? As I said, the cultures that produced various practices are irrelevant to the contemporary applications and proven benefits of said practices. This goes for ayahuasca, martial arts, yoga, weight lifting, loving-kindness meditation, etc.

          • Jin The Ninja

            true! the romans were running around europe half nekkid with a very entrenched caste system, and yet were the philosophical and intellectual basis for western civilisation and european exceptionalism. all the while the persians, the chinese had meritocracies spanning into several millenia. telling isn’t it?

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

            The fallacy of composition arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole (or even of every proper part). For example: “This fragment of metal cannot be broken with a hammer, therefore the machine of which it is a part cannot be broken with a hammer.” This is clearly fallacious, because many machines can be broken into their constituent parts without any of those parts being breakable.This fallacy is often confused with the fallacy of hasty generalization, in which an unwarranted inference is made from a statement about a sample to a statement about the population from which it is drawn.The fallacy of composition is the converse of the fallacy of division.

          • http://twitter.com/leastactionman Tom

            I think you’re absolutely right there Camron. Maybe the guy wasn’t being serious but to conclude that something like yoga couldn’t have a beneficial effect in one situation in one society because another society is racked by problems (with myriad causes) is quite idiotic really!

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Thank you Tom.  MSMD usually presents better arguments so in the spirit of enhancing logical discourse I thought I would share.

            Study of logical fallacies is very beneficial when navigating the murky waters of human affairs, this is a resource I continue to reference and learn from.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhhJAGjBIEw

            If you enjoy please be sure to support the creators as they go above and beyond to share these mental anti-viruses with the masses. 

            Best wishes.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            In the spirit of logical discourse be careful when throwing around words like ‘reality’ and ‘truth’.

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Does gravity exist?  Is it a reality that you experience consistently?  Would you say it is true the you are physically bound by this force?  

          • Step1son

            just a quick thumbs up for your well imformed contributions, thank you–continue please

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Thank you Step1son.  Appreciate your kindness.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Exactly which argument do you disagree with? Where was the logical fallacy?

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Please see the above.

          • The only thing to get is money

            You know that yoga is a sex cult right? Yoga as it is practiced today is a commercial product sold to self indulgent and stupid westerners who fall for that indian crap. The indians are not interested in practicing yoga. It is more popular here than the place from which it originated.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/health/nutrition/yoga-fans-sexual-flames-and-predictably-plenty-of-scandal.html?pagewanted=all 

          • The only thing to get is money

            Don’t try to avoid the issue. The individual was speaking specifically about cultural practices. What are they worth? Zilch. Why? Because their intended effects have not worked. This is not a fallacy or even a generalization it is true of all cultures. Culture is a sham.

            Ayahausca is just some drug to get high and produce meaningless visions. Simple as that. Sorry if that offends you. *Not actually sorry*

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Do you practice yoga?
            Have you ever drunk Ayahuasca?

          • http://twitter.com/leastactionman Tom

            I don’t like to be rude but you seem to me to be quite a limited thinker. I’ve seen a few examples on here of arguments and trains of thought of yours that clearly pass your own internal standard of quality but are really lacking. 

            This is something you have to be very wary of when thinking about anything. Try and keep your standards as high as possible. You have to keep questioning yourself and why you believe what you believe. 

            Some of the most intelligent people I know are also the most humble because they see time and time again how difficult it is to use our brains to seriously address the complexity around us, be it in scientific research, government policy and so on. I think that if you want to become a serious thinker, you have to raise the bar for yourself.

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            I agree 100%

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            TOTTGIM is the grand troll that unites all of Disinfo.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Haha, he is isn’t he.

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            no idea what that means.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Hatred is a powerful uniter (TOTtGiM is the only thing to get is money if thats what you werent clear on :-P)

          • Money

            Wow. I have been blocked under my former monkier. I see what this site is all about now. You guys are not interested in changing or listening to anything. Anything that contradicts your opinions is seen as “hatred”. You guys will become worst monsters than Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the “gods” of “religion.”

            I am finished with this third rate piece of shit nutter site filled with bullshit conspiracy theories, drug philandering and all sort of nuttery such as getting rid of capitalism. All of you are fools.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            lol, so angry. I was actually saying everyone here is united in hating you. Don’t ask me why you were blocked looked like it was more an error of Disqus than disinfo. Who knows? Maybe the government did it.

          • Andrew

            > You guys will become worst monsters than Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the “gods” of “religion.”

            I will?  Cool!

      • Aungsan

        Ayahuasca does not create dependence, is not a drug, is a traditional remedy from the indigenous tribes in South America that has proven efficient in fields where western medicine has failed; in the west you have your own addictive and damaging real drugs to deal with psychological problems and other symptoms (since your medicine deals mostly with symptoms, not causes), so take a good look in the mirror before making ignorant statements.

        • The only thing to get is money

          Now this is a good direction. I agree. Unfortunately, we had nuts (hippies) and still have nutters (present day wannabe hippies) that make the drug seem all woohey-hooey and alienate researchers and society from investigatiing the CLINICAL benefits of such substances.

          These drugs will not bring world peace though. It will not in anyway prevent violence or make a better society. Those shamanic people and tribes have been ingesting this stuff for years, and guess what, they still had wars and conflicts.

          • Aungsan

            Is obvious that you don’t know what you are talking about, nor care to know, Ayahuasca cannot be integrated into western medicine because it belongs to a completely different tradition of medicine, beginning with the focus and way of treatment, western medicine has several amount of assumptions that do not apply in the context of other medical traditions, and that hold it down in making a healthier society, regardless of its technological advances.

            Conflict has existed in many ways and for different reasons, but you speak from ignorance, you haven’t met these tribes, don’t know how they live nor their world view, and obviously have not tried their medicine, besides the obvious fact that the brutality imposed by western societies over traditional ones has been in no way close to any brutality existent in pre-colonial times, or in any traditional culture right now.

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Completely agree.  

          • Jin The Ninja

             same.

          • Calypso_1

            Those pre-colonials were such a genteel lot.  ; )

          • Aungsan

            It wasn’t all rosy of course, but not everybody were as brutal as the Aztecs, (Ayahuasca is from South America, not Mesoamerica) nor was this aspect the only one existing of so many different cultures, nor justifies the destruction and greed of the conquerors. The fact that there is no consensus regarding the reasons for ritual sacrifices in the societies where this practice was predominant, show how little we really know about natives, they developed their society in different social, political, technological and religious lines, in this point, I think you can condemn but it would be counter-productive for an objective understanding to judge by colonial standards, specially whitewashed colonial standards that generalize and solidifies natives into a non existent monolithic culture, and considers the destruction of every native as civilization. I also have one of those cool obsidian blades, so don’t mess with me ;)

          • Camron Wiltshire

            HAHAHA, well yes we all have our skeletons don’t we.    But at least they weren’t slaughtering gringoes then right ;)

          • Step1son

            I don’t mean to seem judgmental or play at some ego game, that said; i am sincerely grateful to read comments from some-one who has the obivious ability to bring truth and sound judgement to the disscussion table.

      • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

        I think Ayahuasca like many entheogens, magnifies what is already there and yes I have seen folks who regularly imbibe return to their normal state of denial and ignorance regarding the very ungroovy *negative* aspects of life they were previously unwilling to consider, even though they simultaneously believe themselves to be avant grade humanitarians and spiritual warriors.

         I’ve also seen folks become more grounded, more empathetic and honest about their previous blockages and subconscious patterns.  I see the fulcrum being the individual and their own psyche so I agree it is not a panacea more so than the potential to be healed, which requires submission to this desire on the initiate.Humility and hubris are the antipodes of this dialectic but there are infinite shades of gray within and without of my construct that are deserving of our consideration and primarily of our direct experience.

  • teachpeace

    I have a family member who swears by Joe Rogan;  I try as I might… to get through a broadcast is difficult. ( his potty mouth irks me ).
    I’m not out to change an obviously successful person, but Joe! do you kiss your mother with that mouth? While visiting a Milwaukee Irish pub, written in beautiful calligraphy over the bar was the quote
    “profanity is ignorance made audible” sums it up.

    • Radii

      That’s one thing I like about Rogan, he can talk about ayahuasca and enlightenment and then make jokes about sex and other “dirty” things.

      They’re just “words.” Not everyone is a baptist Sunday school teacher, nor do they aspire to sound like one. He’s a comedian, and a certain amount of fucks, shits, pussies, and cocksuckers is part of the vocabulary.

      The words won’t hurt you!

      • teachpeace

         You are somewhat correct. They are only words… but all words carry a vibration.
        I cite Dr Masaru Emoto and his work. With this in mind,  I can’t agree totally regarding “hurt”.

        “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said,” said Maya Angelou,
        “people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you
        made them feel.

        Profanity may be hip to a certain audience,   the important subject matter that he brings to the table could reach a broader spectrum of listeners and enhance his credibility if he’d modify / moderate.  It all boils down to personal taste

        Quoting your above reply…..
        “Not everyone is a baptist Sunday school teacher”

        ( for the record….that’s not where I’m coming from
         I’m about as far from any church affiliation as one can be.)

        peace….
         

        • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

          Sorry but Emoto is a known fraudster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto
          It’s too bad, the concepts sound nice but he is defrauding folks by pretending to be peer reviewed.  No one has replicated his results independently, thus to presume to be peer reviewed is a deliberate lie to appear scientific and to sell books and special water.

    • http://twitter.com/jasonpaulhayes jasonpaulhayes

      Save the bathroom philosophy for Eckhart Tolle and don’t forget to flush.

  • http://twitter.com/jasonpaulhayes jasonpaulhayes

    That’s not Eddie Bravo, that’s Aubrey Marcus CEO of onnit.com and his poetry site is warriorpoet.us … I suppose you would call him an Entheogen. He’s done at least 10hrs of good material with Joe Rogan and he has a lot of great stories from his countless bizarre experiences. As far as Ayahuasca goes I think Terence and Dennis McKenna telling of DMT Machine Elves cheering as UFO’s emerged from the jungle fog Chrysanthemum is equally fascinating and worth a watch.

    • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      Thank you JPH, I didn’t realize you were such a Rogan fan.  Do you have any links to the McKenna’s account of their experiences?  I remember bits and pieces from random mp3′s  but would love to hear it again.

  • MindAtPlay

    This was sort of interesting until Joe Rogans warrior complex showed its ugly head and he started glorifying the Israeli army, who is shooting at kids with rocks, poor people with homemade bombs and peace activists, using high tech weapons and then started raising the capitalist system to the skys and cursing at socialism as a form of weakness. Like my friends from south america says Americans are to american to be real people and the stripes and stars are almost impossible to wash out. Nasty guy this Joe Rogan advocating predatory capitalism and war.

    • MindAtPlay

       Plus its funny how he has the exact same intuitions and ideas as the hippies he is scolding all the time only he constantly needs to rationalize it and make it fit his macho image.

      “Yeah you know astrology actually is not a hippie fag thing at all but its actually these little things affecting your whatever you wanna call it on a quantum level, not some gay ass weakling energy or something…”

      Blah

      • MindAtPlay

         Israel a country “surrounded by countrys who hate them, some of whom have nuclear weapons”. What?

      • Monkey See Monkey Do

        Haha my thoughts exactly. He needs to check that ego at the door, he just recites a bunch of ideas he learnt from McKenna and tries to incorporate it into his macho alpha-male worldview. I’m sure there is some value in the macho-dominator reality tunnel, but this guy is obviously stuck in it.  

        • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

          Good points.  I wonder though, is there a healthy expression of “alpha-ness” within the “hippy” paradigms of self conception as well?  Aren’t we just fooling ourselves to  imagine that this aspect of behavior is lacking amongst those who see themselves as opposed to such “macho” exploits?  I see it as almost becoming weirdly sublimated,  inverted & warped into a sanctimonious form of “alpha-ness” where one pats themselves on the back for how many cups of Ayahuasca they have drunk, how long they can sit in full lotus, or how shiny their chakra points are now that they have become multi orgasmic males? 
          Why does nature have “alpha” behavior and what represents a healthy expression of this innate aspect of our pack mentalities?How will future “leading” men demonstrate their cosmic cool and consciousness,  without becoming a muted dry hump, incapable of raising the kundalini pulse in the opposite sex or whomever it is you are seeking to “turn on”.   When does the peacock dance truly become violent in male pageantry, if not physically will males mutate into shit talking each other’s outfits or other mental modes of jockeying for position, how will iron sharpen itself in an “accepted” form of competition for attention and “alphaness” in future aquarian society?

          • http://wearechangeatlanta.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Come at me bro!

          • Monkey See Monkey Do
          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Aspects of ‘hippie’ culture were inverted and co-opted in the advent of 1969′s War on drugs amongst other things, COINTELPRO comes to mind. Any culture suffers from dominators (alpha-males or whatevs). As for future leading men they hopefully will demonstrate their cosmic cool by forfeiting any type of leadership role.
            Monkeymen may be still doing the peacock dance for many more millenia to come but will seem less relevant with any hope of increased intelligence . Any type of “aquarian” or over-soul society wouldn’t really exist within the competitive/alpha paradigm, over-soul society is already here as i’m sure you know, It just doesn’t need to be validated by any sort of competition with itself. I’m sure if we collectively realize this a new paradigm will be set with new consequences, who knows what they will be, but their seems little option but to move in that direction.

  • Drewhempel

    So I took the plant DMT while in full lotus.  It produced the biggest ever kundalini internal orgasm that shot up my spine and exploded light in my brain, sounding like a gun shot.  The bliss felt like my tailbone had been torn back upwards, peeling away the deepest level of stress through the deepest level of orgasm.  Then the rainbow vortex kicked in and I couldn’t move my body.  I could think but only momentarily as the energy was a holographic wave — so that thoughts about “external” reality were answered as internal subconscious energy releases.  Blockages being healed and then new blockages being healed.  I sat in full lotus for at least 4 hours — I tried doing stuff with my hands but after the moment of thought I had to move my hand then I would lose control of my body.  So I could only bare move.  Then this loud OHM sound emitted out of my heart.  I asked questions and every answer was that external reality was a projection of my internal subconscious energy blockages.  I wanted it to end as I felt like I really had died and I had made a big mistake and I wasn’t coming back.  When I finally came back — the DMT started to wear off and so I went to sleep and I woke up totally refreshed and relaxed but I also felt totally sexually spent as all the energy had shot up into my brain.  I went out for a nice big wonderful meal and chat.