On the Huxleys, Gordon Wasson, Terence McKenna, Esalen, Psychedelics, 2012 & Mind Control

Thomas Henry Huxley Grandfather of Aldous and Julian Huxley

A video explaining my latest short article on “How Darwin, Huxley, and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions — and began one of the largest mind control operations in history.” Located at:
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/how-darwin-huxley-and-the-esalen-institute-launch…

This video is the first to reveal the background origins of the Esalen institute through Aldous and Julian Huxley, both grandson’s of Charles Darwin’s “Bulldog” Sir. Thomas Henry Huxley. The Huxleys helped found the Esalen institute to promote Julian Huxley’s eugenics, humanism, transhumanism and feminism to manipulate middle class Americans into following their agenda through psychedelics and the new age movement.

This is not to say that psychedelics or entheogens don’t have value, it just means that devious people have usurped them and created a false movement to fool people into thinking that they’ve completed their task of freeing their minds.

As McKenna says in one quote found shortly after we film this video:

“This was in ’67 when I was a sophomore in college. The interest in altered states of consciousness came simply from, I don’t know whether I was a precocious kid or what, but I was very early into the New York literary scene, and even though I lived in a small town in Colorado, I subscribed to the Village Voice, and there I encountered propaganda about LSD, mescaline, and all these experiments that the late beatniks were involved in. Then I read The Doors of Perception and Heaven and Hell, and it just rolled from there. That was what really put me over. ***I respected Huxley as a novelist, and I was slowly reading everything he’d ever written, and when I got to The Doors of Perception I said to myself, “There’s something going on here for sure.***”
~ Terence McKenna – From Mushrooms, Elves, and Magic.

This video exposes one more bump in the road on our path to freedom and enlightenment.

See this thread on the Gnostic Media website:
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/turning-the-tables-on-the-huxleys-gordon-wasson-t

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  • flux-capacitor

    This is all a bunch of bullshit. I’m not saying theres no conspiracies going on in the world, but this is a clear cut example of conspiracy theorists gone totally bananas.. Jan Irin is an extremely paranoid egomaniac and i can’t believe disinfo posted this.. His entire argument rests on guilt by association and its just shit-brained thinking to be honest.
    I can’t believe people actually buy into his stuff.

    Not to mention he’s not the brightest tool in the shed: http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa423/crippledfonzzz/itsbehindYOU.jpg

    (notice the clouds/sun in his very own avatar lol)

    • charlieprimero

       Didn’t read the article or citations did you?

    • charlieprimero

       Didn’t read the article or citations did you?

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      “This is all a bunch of bullshit” -Appeal to Ridicule
      “this is a clear cut example of conspiracy theorists gone totally bananas” – Ad Hominem
      “Jan Irvin is an extremely paranoid egomaniac” – Ad Hominem
      “i can’t believe disinfo posted this… ” -Appeal to Ridicule
      “His entire argument rests on guilt by assoication” – Strawman attack (cite your evidence if you please) By the way what does your “argument” rest upon exactly?
      “it’s just shit-brained thinking to be honest” – Appeal to Ridicule, Ad Hominem
      “I can’t believe people actually buy into his stuff” – Appeal to Ridicule, Ad Hominem
      “Not to mention he’s not the brightest tool in the shed” – Ad Hominem, Appeal to Ridicule
      “Notice the clouds/sun in his very own avatar lol” -Appeal to Ridicule

      9 Fallacies in your ‘thinking’ flux.  Do you want to discuss any one piece of evidence or citations with which you take isseue?  Or are you only capable of character assassination?

      Also for the record.  Johnny’s avatar on the left, Jan’s on the right.  It’s pretty much meaningless but since you brought it up.

      I  can understand why Jan get’s irritated when people like you and Jonny attack him without actually studying his material whatsoever.  Jonny like yourself seems incapable of doing thing other than leveling personal attacks and insinuations while avoiding the responsibility of research.

      Jan lays out an interesting case for reappraising the formation of modern myths such as 2012 and the overall intentions of those Terrence was befriending, as well as the formation of the new age/ hippie movement overall. 

      • Monkey See Monkey Do

        It saddens me to think that one of the people behind ‘The pharmacratic inquisition’ (an interesting documentary) has made all these extremely nefarious claims. Although it could be argued that the doco might have been indicative of the obsessive connections he seems to be making nowadays (I recall the documentary trying to link far too many cultural phenomena to magic mushrooms) You can make connections and links in anything if you try hard enough, Jan needs to take a note out of Robert anton Wilson’s book and examine his own percieving apparatus to make sure his own prejudices aren’t narrowing his view of events.

        The whole meme of ‘elites are behind everything people do’ can be quite corrosive to rational inquiry and denigrating to any sort of humanity that can be expressed within societies and communities, instead it parcels it off to ‘all-powerul elites’ or some other form of all-powerful authority such as god.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

          You still haven’t addressed any of his claims.  That is the schism here.  People are attacking the work saying it’s this or that but haven’t actually refuted anything.  Can you address the evidence he brings forward and attack it as a scholar would?  We have far too much sophistry, it’s time for an evolution of our collective discourse.  Feel free to step up to the challenge and feel free to post t his on Jan’s site for his opportunity to respond.  Otherwise disinfo as a forum for eduction will be reduced to nothing more than a dilettante sounding board in my opinion.

      • echar

         I don’t know the guy. I entered open minded and skeptical to it all until I had a good long look at him. Dude looks like he’s wound so tight that all it will take is one more twist. I was trying to follow his connections, but they appear loose at best to me. Before you say, do the research… My answer is I don’t want to… However I don’t claim to know the correct way to Gnosis.

        also… correct me if I am wrong: Disinfo offers things, which is different than endorse. Like here it is, make up your own mind.

        IMO Edward Bernays is the guy we should look at when it comes to mind control.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Disinfo is not any particular thing in my experience.  So yes you are right in that it does not endorse any one perspective but provides multiple perspectives. 

           I am not advocating people believe anything because it was published here.  I am presenting information and asking that if people disagree that they effectively and cogently offer counter argumentation.  The reason being our society is dumbed down by an onslaught of logical fallacies which prevent an honest and meaningful conversation on any topic of importance. 

          Case in point, it’s fine that you see a superficial characteristic in Jan’s person, but does it disprove anything he has said?  No, not at all, so this is an example of what is used against him rather than citing the evidence and battling with logical analysis of this thinking.

          Usually when this is the case, it’s because one side is disinclined to deal with the facts and therefore chooses to engage in sophistry as a means to avoid utterly the crux of the matter.

          These are the ties that bind.  I say we upgrade our gray matter and challenge ourselves to learn how to deconstruct any lies (internal or otherwise) which prevent honest pursuit of wisdom or knowledge.

          Cheers.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Disinfo is not any particular thing in my experience.  So yes you are right in that it does not endorse any one perspective but provides multiple perspectives. 

           I am not advocating people believe anything because it was published here.  I am presenting information and asking that if people disagree that they effectively and cogently offer counter argumentation.  The reason being our society is dumbed down by an onslaught of logical fallacies which prevent an honest and meaningful conversation on any topic of importance. 

          Case in point, it’s fine that you see a superficial characteristic in Jan’s person, but does it disprove anything he has said?  No, not at all, so this is an example of what is used against him rather than citing the evidence and battling with logical analysis of this thinking.

          Usually when this is the case, it’s because one side is disinclined to deal with the facts and therefore chooses to engage in sophistry as a means to avoid utterly the crux of the matter.

          These are the ties that bind.  I say we upgrade our gray matter and challenge ourselves to learn how to deconstruct any lies (internal or otherwise) which prevent honest pursuit of wisdom or knowledge.

          Cheers.

          • echar

            As Mr. Irvin mentioned, rabbit holes indeed. I feel it is not my place to delve where he appears to be delving. From my perspective too much importance is being placed on the worn stepping stones placed by past travelers.

            It’s as though he and others wish to crush those stones to cement another path that may be as real and false as the one being sullied, while taking himself/things far to seriously, to boot. As I have noticed many conspiracy theorists are prone to do.

            I’ll say this. This provided me with new data.

            Happy trails!
            E

          • echar

            As Mr. Irvin mentioned, rabbit holes indeed. I feel it is not my place to delve where he appears to be delving. From my perspective too much importance is being placed on the worn stepping stones placed by past travelers.

            It’s as though he and others wish to crush those stones to cement another path that may be as real and false as the one being sullied, while taking himself/things far to seriously, to boot. As I have noticed many conspiracy theorists are prone to do.

            I’ll say this. This provided me with new data.

            Happy trails!
            E

          • BrianApocalypse

             Well put. I was going to say something similar myself. You see this phenomenon when conspiracy theorists debunk other conspiracy theorists. Their natural curiosity takes them so far and then the ‘conspiracy thinking’ kicks in (mixed in with a generous dose of ego), and they make yet another conspiracy out of the conspiracy theories… it never ends.

          • http://about.me/scott.bryson/ Scott Bryson

            After Irwin went in his attack dog mode on me in a Facebook post re his spat with Pinchbeck he messaged me for a 2.5 hour rantfest filled with cursing and personal insults, proving to me this is a person not worthy of consideration. He hasn’t added 1% to the existing body of conspiracy theory or MK-Ultra history and most of his assertions would not stand a challenge in a slander & libel lawsuit, which I’d like to see the heirs of his victims raise to clear the air.

            Guess what, people don’t have to debate him on his own ground using his weapons of choice. Anyone with half a brain can tell he is an ego out of control that has no ability to hold a civil debate, while whether one gives his writings a quick scan or reads them in depth he is a legend in his own mind.

            I’ve read all the best writings on MK-Ultra and most of the grand conspiracy theories and Irvin’s work is so pedantic it is almost unreadable. It is a simple continuation of the Devil made Jazz & Rock & Roll; the Communists made it; the Illuminati made it; and now the CIA made it. The same theme has been done before.

            Next.

    • StillAtMyMoms

       So what did Jan say in response to that comment then?

    • Xen

       Definitely an ego-maniac. I almost stopped watching when he tried to claim responsibility for the 2012 meme.

    • Xen

       Definitely an ego-maniac. I almost stopped watching when he tried to claim responsibility for the 2012 meme.

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

         When who did?  Jan never tried to claim that. 

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

         When who did?  Jan never tried to claim that. 

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          did you watch the video?

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          did you watch the video?

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Obviously.   Jan never took credit for the 2012 meme.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Obviously.   Jan never took credit for the 2012 meme.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient
          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient
          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             “So I’m KINDA (emphasis mine) at fault for creating this 2012 meme….”

             He is of course describing how he released the McKenna material as he explains numerous times but does not take credit for creating the meme in the way you are imagining obviously…

            Also I tend to listen to people when they describe their intentions, maybe you should try it.

            “A video explaining my latest short article on “How Darwin, Huxley, and
            the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions —
            and began one of the largest mind control operations in history.”
            Located at:
            http://www.gnosticmedia.com/how-darwin-huxley-and-the-esalen-institute-launch

            Notice he does not say how I Jan Irvin launched the 2012 meme, he says how “Darwin, Huxley and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions.

            He says he released 70 hours of material before your little slice by the way.  Nice to keep things in context.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            The issue is of him being an egomaniac, and that he feels even the slightest bit responsible for 2012 by pissing in the ocean of the internet points to egomania.

            You’re the one “projecting” here. Its better to assume I’m omitting something than being ignorant. You labor on things that are pretty obvious to everyone (although it seems our definitions of “obvious” may differ…) You (and I) do not need to spell out every little detail of context because the context is up top with a video and an article.

            I get that you listen to people’s intentions, but it just may be only when those people align with your own presuppositions.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            The issue is of him being an egomaniac, and that he feels even the slightest bit responsible for 2012 by pissing in the ocean of the internet points to egomania.

            You’re the one “projecting” here. Its better to assume I’m omitting something than being ignorant. You labor on things that are pretty obvious to everyone (although it seems our definitions of “obvious” may differ…) You (and I) do not need to spell out every little detail of context because the context is up top with a video and an article.

            I get that you listen to people’s intentions, but it just may be only when those people align with your own presuppositions.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            So you don’t think him releasing 70 hours of footage in the early days had any effect on people finding out about McKenna…. Fine, it doesn’t make him an egomaniac to state as much.  Jan has been immersed in psychedelic culture for sometime and it’s not egotistical to understand  you could have an effect but red herrings aside you are the one invoking that because you don’t like personality quirks of Jan or myself,  that everything else must be wrong and avoiding discussing the evidence.  It’s childish, typical and apparently an addictive need for you and many people here whenever your precious emotional buttons are pushed to rail and seethe with meaningless contradictory speech and false piety.  Look, I’ve put this out there so people can  have a different perspective and think.  If having a different perspective and thinking offend you so much why are you here???

            Also feel free to post your own article refuting anything here instead of trolling away in the comments section?  Go ahead and do your research, find something worthy of consideration and post it. 

            Try to stick to the facts and not your subjective emotional reaction to them to.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            So you don’t think him releasing 70 hours of footage in the early days had any effect on people finding out about McKenna…. Fine, it doesn’t make him an egomaniac to state as much.  Jan has been immersed in psychedelic culture for sometime and it’s not egotistical to understand  you could have an effect but red herrings aside you are the one invoking that because you don’t like personality quirks of Jan or myself,  that everything else must be wrong and avoiding discussing the evidence.  It’s childish, typical and apparently an addictive need for you and many people here whenever your precious emotional buttons are pushed to rail and seethe with meaningless contradictory speech and false piety.  Look, I’ve put this out there so people can  have a different perspective and think.  If having a different perspective and thinking offend you so much why are you here???

            Also feel free to post your own article refuting anything here instead of trolling away in the comments section?  Go ahead and do your research, find something worthy of consideration and post it. 

            Try to stick to the facts and not your subjective emotional reaction to them to.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            its getting to the point where I don’t think you’d understand my intentions if i tried to describe them. not to mention its effect would probably be corrupted in doing so.

            I don’t know where you get the idea that i’m offended by or having an emotional reaction to anything that’s going on here… well i guess i might be having a little fun.

          • Calypso_1

            “I tend to listen to people when they describe their intentions”

            No wonder you miss so much and are fooled so easily.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            ….blah blah blah pedantic piety from a full time troll. 

          • Calypso_1

            Camron please, drop the troll shit.
            You and I both are here often enough. You are all over your own articles confronting everyone who tries to comment in ways you don’t agree or genuflecting to those who give support.

            I try at various times to extend an olive branch to you and will continue to do so because at heart I believe you know as well as I do that, as I have said before, erstwhile adversaries are often well suited as allies. I don’t care if you hate my guts. There are many angles to play and even those on the same side, need not be on ‘the same side’.
            Instead of just saying blah pedantic troll….might you not see instead some thought in my words.
            Most people are unawares of their own intentions and it is a skill to discern them, or an even more invaluable skill to discern them when their intentions are known yet they describe them and try to mislead or worse- they are just ignorant and you listen solely because they described to you what they intended and from ignorance on the topic take their words, if crafted with logic, as truth.

          • Calypso_1

            Am hominid!  Am hominid!

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Obviously.   Jan never took credit for the 2012 meme.

  • http://twitter.com/alizardx A.Lizard

    “Extraordinary statements require extraordinary proof”. I see a number of extraordinary statements, I see no proof, extraordinary or otherwise, and I’m not going to waste an hour on the video hoping I can find some without a lot more verifiable fact than I see here.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      So without reading it you decided that there must be no “extraordinary proof” therein? 

      • Damnboy

         Cameron i think you are focusing on “if anyone has anything to say, you will disagree anyways”.

        have obnoxious behavior has give me little to no entertainment value :P

        • Damnboy

           Cameron i think you are focusing on “if anyone has anything to say, you will disagree anyways”.

          Your obnoxious behavior has given me little to no entertainment at all :P

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

          You can think whatever you want.   You are also welcome to focus on the topic being discussed rather than attacking the messenger.  If you are capable that is.

      • Calypso_1

        Absolutely, I’d much rather spend my time watching chemtrails. 

      • Calypso_1

        Absolutely, I’d much rather spend my time watching chemtrails. 

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Calypso…. Are you saying that Stratospheric Geo Engineering is imaginary?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis 
          Now back to the topic at hand.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Calypso…. Are you saying that Stratospheric Geo Engineering is imaginary?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis 
          Now back to the topic at hand.

          • Calypso_1

            No, I’m saying you need to learn the difference between ridicule, appeal to ridicule and the ridiculous.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            So much Nerd Hate in your aura Lypservice.  

          • Calypso_1

            Excellent choice.   

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             No seriously, I think something is pathologically wrong with you. 

          • Calypso_1

            …jeez, that’s my shctick.
             
            I mean: All the better to eat you with my pretty.
             
            No, seriously you’ve got it.  Really you have.

            A pathology so insidiously, mind warping that even now the Buildabears are devoting their most elite Masters of Black Arts to map every nook & cranny of my neural core – preparing it for that most Glorious of moments!

            The merger of my Daemon with the Global AI in service of the NWO!!! 
             

          • Calypso_1

            …jeez, that’s my shctick.
             
            I mean: All the better to eat you with my pretty.
             
            No, seriously you’ve got it.  Really you have.

            A pathology so insidiously, mind warping that even now the Buildabears are devoting their most elite Masters of Black Arts to map every nook & cranny of my neural core – preparing it for that most Glorious of moments!

            The merger of my Daemon with the Global AI in service of the NWO!!! 
             

          • BrianApocalypse

             It’s time to welcome our machine overlords.

          • Calypso_1

            I’ve been down to the crossroads
            X-marks the spot
            Ascension through crucifixion
            With a rattlesnake in your veins

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            You really need to lighten up and gather a sense of humor. Here I got a joke for you:

            The Pope Farted.

            If you’re war is to turn the internets into hyper-serious time, you’re fighting a losing battle. Move with the waves, gain some humility and laugh at yourself a little.

          • Calypso_1

            Even the Pope gets eye boogers.

          • Calypso_1

            Even the Pope gets eye boogers.

          • Misinformation

             “You really need to lighten up and gather a sense of humor. Here I got a joke for you:”

            I’m pretty sure plantation slaves used this one too…

          • Calypso_1

            No, I’m saying you need to learn the difference between ridicule, appeal to ridicule and the ridiculous.

          • Calypso_1

            No, I’m saying you need to learn the difference between ridicule, appeal to ridicule and the ridiculous.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Calypso…. Are you saying that Stratospheric Geo Engineering is imaginary?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis 
          Now back to the topic at hand.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Calypso…. Are you saying that Stratospheric Geo Engineering is imaginary?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis 
          Now back to the topic at hand.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           Calypso…. Are you saying that Stratospheric Geo Engineering is imaginary?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis 
          Now back to the topic at hand.

      • alizardx

        I did read the article, that’s why I decided not to view the video. 

      • alizardx

        I did read the article, that’s why I decided not to view the video. 

  • echar

    This appears to be Curisium vulgara Excrement!

  • cakey pig

    I had a look at his article and quite frankly he needs to learn how to use footnotes.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

       cakey pig.  It’s easy to throw out accusations, why not provide us of an example where Jan “failed” at this task in your opinion and deserves correction.  That is only fair since you feel compelled to insinuate he is lacking some fundamental awareness of the correct use of footnotes. 

  • BunkersTrust

    Regardless of who is right about what, the best advice I’ve ever read is from the Buddha
    :
    “Don’t blindly believe what I say. Don’t believe me because others convince you of my words. Don’t believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don’t rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don’t infer or be deceived by appearances.”

    “Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion.”

    “Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good.”
    – The Buddha

  • In Bunk we Trust

    Regardless of who is right about what, the best advice I’ve ever read is from the Buddha
    :
    “Don’t blindly believe what I say. Don’t believe me because others convince you of my words. Don’t believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don’t rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don’t infer or be deceived by appearances.”

    “Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion.”

    “Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good.”
    – The Buddha

  • Guest

    I’m not going to assume that he got it right when he is linking people, organizations, and intent. He may have got it all wrong but secret organizations that are interested in controlling thought have been around since before religion. 

  • Guest

    I’m not going to assume that he got it right when he is linking people, organizations, and intent. He may have got it all wrong but secret organizations that are interested in controlling thought have been around since before religion. 

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    even if he was “a willful idiot,” whatever that is
    “and at minimum being used by the Huxley family…”
    if you have a day job, you’re being used by the elites
    T neva had a day job as an adult

    did anybody really take timewave zero seriously?
    he had more and mo better ideas and insights than that

    48:49/50 there’s a cut that takes out his comments on McLuhan
    McLuhan went beyond the Trivium as did MKUltra Inc
    Mac fully laid out the whole thing and how it works
    The Medium is the Massage or E = MCsquared

    but the dude’s data set and the ability is to connect the dots is helpful
    if your not yet aware that there’s a monied elite out to screw you

  • http://buzzcoastin.posterous.com BuzzCoastin

    even if he was “a willful idiot,” whatever that is
    “and at minimum being used by the Huxley family…”
    if you have a day job, you’re being used by the elites
    T neva had a day job as an adult

    did anybody really take timewave zero seriously?
    he had more and mo better ideas and insights than that

    48:49/50 there’s a cut that takes out his comments on McLuhan
    McLuhan went beyond the Trivium as did MKUltra Inc
    Mac fully laid out the whole thing and how it works
    The Medium is the Massage or E = MCsquared

    but the dude’s data set and the ability is to connect the dots is helpful
    if your not yet aware that there’s a monied elite out to screw you

  • theblimp
  • ellipse

    somebody had lunch together and that proves they were cooking up some sinister plot? c’mon… and calling names people who were probably 100 times smarter than you is of course an unmistakable sign of maturity. what’s the point of reading all those books, if all you see there is what you want to see (or are capable of seeing)?

  • ellipse

    somebody had lunch together and that proves they were cooking up some sinister plot? c’mon… and calling names people who were probably 100 times smarter than you is of course an unmistakable sign of maturity. what’s the point of reading all those books, if all you see there is what you want to see (or are capable of seeing)?

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      I think you are focusing on one aspect out of context which yes, does not appear to be a smoking gun, and I don’t think it was intended to be, rather more supporting argumentation that yes these individuals were all interlinked and thus in a way interwoven. 

      The most telling information is directly evidenced in their personal talks and letters where they affirm a world view that was launched by the Huxleys via Esalen and it culminates in global memes such as 2012, Humanism, UNESCO, etc.

      Someone had mentioned Edward Bernays and of course he is in the mix and those who manipulate the minds of men toward endless consumerism of course haven’t stopped there.  They have designed to create entire cultural convulsions to align with their overall desires and this is what is being described. 

      Conspiracy is an undeniable reality of our existence.  When extraordinary hypotheses are presented they of course must be founded on extraordinary evidence.  Jan has provided ample evidence and I’ve yet to see anyone address his strongest points, usually citing unwillingness to do so or leading with the presumption that it is just a psychological defect on his part to see connections where others refuse to.

      It does take a bit of familiarization with the material for some of these connections to sink in in my experience.  Perhaps listen again and take notes not only of where you perceive failure but also where cogent points are made. 

      From there feel free to go a step further and offer up analysis as to where his connections are too tenuous or reaching in your estimation and then we might all level up from your effort. 

      Here is to independent scholarship.

      Cheers.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      I think you are focusing on one aspect out of context which yes, does not appear to be a smoking gun, and I don’t think it was intended to be, rather more supporting argumentation that yes these individuals were all interlinked and thus in a way interwoven. 

      The most telling information is directly evidenced in their personal talks and letters where they affirm a world view that was launched by the Huxleys via Esalen and it culminates in global memes such as 2012, Humanism, UNESCO, etc.

      Someone had mentioned Edward Bernays and of course he is in the mix and those who manipulate the minds of men toward endless consumerism of course haven’t stopped there.  They have designed to create entire cultural convulsions to align with their overall desires and this is what is being described. 

      Conspiracy is an undeniable reality of our existence.  When extraordinary hypotheses are presented they of course must be founded on extraordinary evidence.  Jan has provided ample evidence and I’ve yet to see anyone address his strongest points, usually citing unwillingness to do so or leading with the presumption that it is just a psychological defect on his part to see connections where others refuse to.

      It does take a bit of familiarization with the material for some of these connections to sink in in my experience.  Perhaps listen again and take notes not only of where you perceive failure but also where cogent points are made. 

      From there feel free to go a step further and offer up analysis as to where his connections are too tenuous or reaching in your estimation and then we might all level up from your effort. 

      Here is to independent scholarship.

      Cheers.

  • matthewberger

    I don’t get what he is trying to prove. That the world is ran by elities, they control our mind, him and a few other people are the only ones that really know whats going on, and without people like him, the people of the world are going to go insane if they keep believeing in positive thought and action through observations and our own personl interations. What is he proposing we do? Lot of connections, well no shit, thats all there is. Without connections there wouldn’t be a reality.  I want to see him pull Alan Watts, Manly Hall, King, and Krishnamurti, into this “brain database” aka “connection database.”

  • http://www.allaboutyourownwebsite.com/ redrocklass

    Basically we’re talking social engineering.

  • http://www.allaboutyourownwebsite.com/ redrocklass

    Basically we’re talking social engineering.

  • Xen

    A lot of these connections are very weak, and in fact feed right into one of the very logical fallacies that this guy talks about so much, that of “guilt by association”.

    His whole conspiracy theory also has some very shaky foundations. For a start it assumes that several popular conspiracy theories are true, despite the fact they are either unproven or do not live up to the claims of conspiracy theorists (e.g MK-ULTRA… the conspiracy theory version of MK-ULTRA is very different to the reality).

    And then you have to consider… Really, in the grand scope of things, how important is all this stuff he’s talking about? Mckenna’s ideas are only known to a fringe subculture of individuals. I know it’s easy to believe that this stuff is world-spanning and of the utmost importance from the perspective of being INSIDE it, but in the bigger scheme of things it really isn’t. The scope of this conspiracy theory is just far too grandiose in light of the apparent results. Despite everything, these ideas are still fringe and probably always will be. Nobody is implementing this stuff on a grand scale.

  • Xen

    A lot of these connections are very weak, and in fact feed right into one of the very logical fallacies that this guy talks about so much, that of “guilt by association”.

    His whole conspiracy theory also has some very shaky foundations. For a start it assumes that several popular conspiracy theories are true, despite the fact they are either unproven or do not live up to the claims of conspiracy theorists (e.g MK-ULTRA… the conspiracy theory version of MK-ULTRA is very different to the reality).

    And then you have to consider… Really, in the grand scope of things, how important is all this stuff he’s talking about? Mckenna’s ideas are only known to a fringe subculture of individuals. I know it’s easy to believe that this stuff is world-spanning and of the utmost importance from the perspective of being INSIDE it, but in the bigger scheme of things it really isn’t. The scope of this conspiracy theory is just far too grandiose in light of the apparent results. Despite everything, these ideas are still fringe and probably always will be. Nobody is implementing this stuff on a grand scale.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      Please tell me of the difference in your mind of the real and the ‘fake’ MK Ultra programs in your mind.  It’s pretty obvious that the program is devlish in any form and the fact alone that such reprehensible actions were condoned by any government is more than enough to corroborate that they are psychopathic and sociopathic in their attitude towards their perceived subjects.

      Do you believe that the 2012 meme has had an impact culturally?  Perhaps allowing catastrophes in as an expectation in a style consistent with known psy op techniques such as “predictive programming”  As we sit on the brink of WW3, as we have had biological catastrophes and the utter stripping of the Constitution from an supposed “Constitutional Scholar” perhaps these realities are enabled by mental constructs such as beaten into the collective and who found their genesis in the halls of esalen in the minds of known eugenicists, CIA disinformationalists and other false prophets such as McKenna (willful idiocy and all)

      Again, you’ve fallen exactly in line with the smug and casual dismissal, invoking that it is “too grandiose”  etc.  Tell me then.  The Manhattan project was infinitely more complex and involved over 100,000 compartmentalized workers who instituted the creation of the first nuclear weapon and no one who was outside of this matrix was aware of the ultimate goal.  So your logic fails based on multiple examples of historical precedence.

      Also your tone tends towards pseudo prescient presumption.  These memes have an easily discernable affect on culture and on thought processes.  AGW and the fear mongering over “climate change’ being just another example of the results of such meddling. 

      But I imagine that is another stream that most will only dip their toes in and follow whatever “feels right” as they were instructed by the guru of the moment, whether they be CIA funded or just jumping on the gravy train band wagon.  The result is the same, a complacent flock unwilling to think for themselves, stockholm syndrome apologists for Big Brothers every sin. 

      For the record

      OSS
      CIA
      TSA
      NDAA

      Any connections??

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      Please tell me of the difference in your mind of the real and the ‘fake’ MK Ultra programs in your mind.  It’s pretty obvious that the program is devlish in any form and the fact alone that such reprehensible actions were condoned by any government is more than enough to corroborate that they are psychopathic and sociopathic in their attitude towards their perceived subjects.

      Do you believe that the 2012 meme has had an impact culturally?  Perhaps allowing catastrophes in as an expectation in a style consistent with known psy op techniques such as “predictive programming”  As we sit on the brink of WW3, as we have had biological catastrophes and the utter stripping of the Constitution from an supposed “Constitutional Scholar” perhaps these realities are enabled by mental constructs such as beaten into the collective and who found their genesis in the halls of esalen in the minds of known eugenicists, CIA disinformationalists and other false prophets such as McKenna (willful idiocy and all)

      Again, you’ve fallen exactly in line with the smug and casual dismissal, invoking that it is “too grandiose”  etc.  Tell me then.  The Manhattan project was infinitely more complex and involved over 100,000 compartmentalized workers who instituted the creation of the first nuclear weapon and no one who was outside of this matrix was aware of the ultimate goal.  So your logic fails based on multiple examples of historical precedence.

      Also your tone tends towards pseudo prescient presumption.  These memes have an easily discernable affect on culture and on thought processes.  AGW and the fear mongering over “climate change’ being just another example of the results of such meddling. 

      But I imagine that is another stream that most will only dip their toes in and follow whatever “feels right” as they were instructed by the guru of the moment, whether they be CIA funded or just jumping on the gravy train band wagon.  The result is the same, a complacent flock unwilling to think for themselves, stockholm syndrome apologists for Big Brothers every sin. 

      For the record

      OSS
      CIA
      TSA
      NDAA

      Any connections??

      • Xen

         The reality of MK-ULTRA was largely to develop techniques, drugs and technologies for use in warfare, interrogation and espionage. The conspiracy version of MK-ULTRA involves the mass cultural manipulation the entire world and drone assassins. Stuff out of James Bond movie.

        The real MK-ULTRA was characterized by many failures and eventual abandonment. The conspiracy MK-ULTRA went underground and continues to this day as part of the evil mastermind manipulators of everything.

        Was the real thing ‘devlish’,’reprehensible’ and ‘sociopathic’? Yes. Does that fact further mean that any of this stuff is true? No.

        Yes there is a cultural impact of 2012 ideas, but for most people they are nothing but a curiosity or something they read about in magazines and forget about immediately afterwards. Ask the average person on the street if they have any idea about 2012 memes and I bet the most you would get out of them is a reference to the movie ‘2012’. That is probably the biggest impact it ever had, and it was a shit movie.

        Are you trying to suggest that the spreading of the catastrophy/NWO version of the 2012 meme is somehow psychically enabling the reality of those things to occur? The whole ‘predictive programming’ concept that gets thrown around in conspiracy theory I find pretty silly and simplistic. The idea that by, for example, making a movie that portrays exactly how the dystopian future is going to go down somehow makes it easier for the reality of those things to be implemented is absurd… How does warning the public about it make it easier for the conspiracy to pull the wool over their eyes? It doesn’t make any sense.

        I don’t think you understood the point I was making about this conspiracy theory being too ‘grandiose’. First of all, would you call the Manhattan Project a “conspiracy”? I suppose by some strict definition of the word, perhaps it would be, but it’s a pretty odd use of the term.
        Then of course you have to consider that, when it was complete, the Manhatten Project became offical public knowledge, whereas THIS conspiracy allegedly is still running behind the scenes and involves nothing less than, *ahem*… mind-control, feminism, water floridation, geoengineering, GMO foods, neoshamanism, pornography, comics, NWO, Rothschilds, positive thinking, MK-ULTRA, psychiatry, the sexual revolution, ufology, quantum physics and professional sports!!! (all according to the info in this video).

        Now, I think that a project of this scale would require even more time, resources and people than even the Manhattan Project. And not only that, but it would require the continued silence and secrecy of the conspirators over decades (not to mention the extremely fortuitous confluence of
        many individuals of near-genius level intellect, who all happen to share the same extreme ideology to pull this off…). But really the point I was making about this conspiracy theory being too grandiose wasn’t about how many people would be involved etc, it was about the claimed
        world-changing effects of this handful of individuals who, in reality, were just skirting around the fringes of culture and society.

         As I said before, these are fringe ideas that only fringe people take seriously, and I just think that ascribing some kind of utterly world-changing conspiracy to them is ridiculous. For the most part, the only result of these ideas are a bunch of neo-hippies taking drugs and talking about crazy sci-fi stuff. Is that transforming the world? I found Mckenna to be great to listen to, his ideas were mind-expanding in the same way that reading good science fiction is, but as we approach his prophesied Omega Point and it becomes more and more likely that nothing is going to happen… of what consequence is it other than as entertainment for us weird people out here on the cultural fringe?

        • blissentia

          I think you might find the following of interest: http://archive.org/details/GeorgeHuntUncedEarthSummit1992cobdenClubsPapersaldousHuxleythe_125

          Jan has also interviewed Henk Abarelli, the greatest expert on MK-Ultra, who has corroborated that account. 

          There is also this, which provides further information that refutes your claims: http://www.undovedmind.org/ISGP/articles/dutroux/Belgian_X_dossiers_of_the_Dutroux_affair.htm

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           You have presented many points which are predicated on a perspective that does not follow the evidence but rather your own casual dismissal of what the impact could be by orchestrating the emergence of new age, psychedelic and hippy culture by the same framers who run madison avenue and devise mass media manipulation for the highest bidder.

          Just because you roll your eyes over the potential of these types of conspiracy does not diminish their impact, case in point, Ken Kesey, Tim Leary and the 60’s. Obviously this had a major impact and continues to beyond the so called “fringes” of society.  The overall purpose being a new dispensation of mind control for those requiring their new cultural operating system to patch up the addled previous control systems they adhered to.  Slave upgrades if you will.

          As for 2012.  Do a quick Google news search, or scan Amazon and tell me how many books have come out parading these eschatological memes?  I didnt’ say they create them psychically (that is a whole ‘nother conversation) what I said is that the impact on culture is easily demonstrated and again your casual dismissal avoids this fact.  If you were attempting to pave the way for global disruption, wouldn’t it make it easier to blame it on the Mayans, The Universe or whatever means opens up this expectation in the public mind.  Don’t waste my time arguing the semantics, see the bigger picture.  Oh and keep in mind, GeoEngineering is Real.  HAARP is real.  Fukushima is real and still melting down.  The Gulf spill, Corexit and the War on Terra is very very real.  Oh and of course, GMO’s, Flouride, Aspartame etc all easily understood in their implications for global health, that is if you are capable of observing a pattern towards maintaining chronic disease for profit and control.  Call me kooky but this is all enabled by the FDA which is does Monsanto’s bidding and you have the makings of a lot of disease.  Should we expect anything less from the nice folks who sprayed our own troops with agent orange and sentenced the unborn children of Cambodia and Vietnam to a sentence of genetic mutation and retardation?  Again call me fucking Kooky but anyone paying any type of attention can see these are not just “coincidences”.  I didn’t bring up vaccines, gulf war syndrome or the faux swine flu pandemic which enriched big pharma at the expense and loss of life and life energy through tax payers ponying the bill for another corporate mandated raping spree for profit.

          http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bill_Gates_Monsanto_eugenics.html

          How many Americans are basically incapable of independent or critical thinking and thus docile sheep led by wolves in sheeps clothing, easliy reciting the lies of government indoctrination and reporting to their grown up schule’s or workplaces with the same regularity and frequency of attending grade school.  Just a coincidence I’m sure…. Surely no one ever GASP conspired to enslave people before….

          If you have actually studied Jan’s presentation I shouldn’t have to tell you how they all tie in together with the Huxleys and Esalen which of course are the main focus of the entire article.

          “The idea that by, for example, making a movie that portrays exactly how
          the dystopian future is going to go down somehow makes it easier for the
          reality of those things to be implemented is absurd…”

          Oh really, Minority Report is less than a decade old and yet here all of the technology for surveilance coming on line.  Perhaps nothing more than synchromysticism or perhaps propaganda.  The point of predictive programming is to aclimatize people for cultural changes that are not in their best interests whatsoever. 

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           You have presented many points which are predicated on a perspective that does not follow the evidence but rather your own casual dismissal of what the impact could be by orchestrating the emergence of new age, psychedelic and hippy culture by the same framers who run madison avenue and devise mass media manipulation for the highest bidder.

          Just because you roll your eyes over the potential of these types of conspiracy does not diminish their impact, case in point, Ken Kesey, Tim Leary and the 60’s. Obviously this had a major impact and continues to beyond the so called “fringes” of society.  The overall purpose being a new dispensation of mind control for those requiring their new cultural operating system to patch up the addled previous control systems they adhered to.  Slave upgrades if you will.

          As for 2012.  Do a quick Google news search, or scan Amazon and tell me how many books have come out parading these eschatological memes?  I didnt’ say they create them psychically (that is a whole ‘nother conversation) what I said is that the impact on culture is easily demonstrated and again your casual dismissal avoids this fact.  If you were attempting to pave the way for global disruption, wouldn’t it make it easier to blame it on the Mayans, The Universe or whatever means opens up this expectation in the public mind.  Don’t waste my time arguing the semantics, see the bigger picture.  Oh and keep in mind, GeoEngineering is Real.  HAARP is real.  Fukushima is real and still melting down.  The Gulf spill, Corexit and the War on Terra is very very real.  Oh and of course, GMO’s, Flouride, Aspartame etc all easily understood in their implications for global health, that is if you are capable of observing a pattern towards maintaining chronic disease for profit and control.  Call me kooky but this is all enabled by the FDA which is does Monsanto’s bidding and you have the makings of a lot of disease.  Should we expect anything less from the nice folks who sprayed our own troops with agent orange and sentenced the unborn children of Cambodia and Vietnam to a sentence of genetic mutation and retardation?  Again call me fucking Kooky but anyone paying any type of attention can see these are not just “coincidences”.  I didn’t bring up vaccines, gulf war syndrome or the faux swine flu pandemic which enriched big pharma at the expense and loss of life and life energy through tax payers ponying the bill for another corporate mandated raping spree for profit.

          http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bill_Gates_Monsanto_eugenics.html

          How many Americans are basically incapable of independent or critical thinking and thus docile sheep led by wolves in sheeps clothing, easliy reciting the lies of government indoctrination and reporting to their grown up schule’s or workplaces with the same regularity and frequency of attending grade school.  Just a coincidence I’m sure…. Surely no one ever GASP conspired to enslave people before….

          If you have actually studied Jan’s presentation I shouldn’t have to tell you how they all tie in together with the Huxleys and Esalen which of course are the main focus of the entire article.

          “The idea that by, for example, making a movie that portrays exactly how
          the dystopian future is going to go down somehow makes it easier for the
          reality of those things to be implemented is absurd…”

          Oh really, Minority Report is less than a decade old and yet here all of the technology for surveilance coming on line.  Perhaps nothing more than synchromysticism or perhaps propaganda.  The point of predictive programming is to aclimatize people for cultural changes that are not in their best interests whatsoever. 

          • Xen

             It’s not a casual dismissal at all. It’s a dismissal based on many years of being involved with this culture and knowing from the inside what kinds of people are attracted to it and what sort of effects it has on them. The authorities actively tried to wipe out psychedelic/hippie culture.  They were afraid of it. They imprisoned Timothy Leary on false charges. In fact there’s a news story right now about how cointelpro tried to prevent the Rolling Stones from spreading their  ‘corrupting’ influence across America.

            This culture was strongly anti-authoritarian and anti-establishment. It encouraged individualism and protest. I don’t see how these things constitute any kind of upgrading of slave-culture.  There is extremely strong anti-establishment feeling across the western world at the moment, and  it is in part thanks to hippie and other counter-culture movements that these sentiments have  been enabled to thrive. Even conspiracy-theory culture owes a debt to these movements.

            I personally feel that a lot of people who create the kinds of conspiracy theories such as the  one in question here are involved in a game of one upmanship. A kind of “more radical than thou” desire to outdo their predecessors and be the one to uncover the shocking new revelation.

            I find the idea of any kind of Officialdom trying to blame the ancient Mayans for a planned artificial apocalypse to be completely laughable.

            You’re saying a lot of unproven stuff is “real”, which ties back to what I was saying previously  about this whole conspiracy theory relying on several dubious presuppositions for it to be valid.  Yeah, HAARP is real, but does it do all that stuff conspiracy theorists say it does? If we are to  believe them, then it is nothing short of a super-weapon capable of global mind control,  earthquakes and weather control. All unproven. All extremely dubious. And as other commenters have noted here, many of the individuals who make claims to this effect are dubious characters in themselves.

            You’re throwing the whole conspiracy caboodle into this scenario and hoping something sticks.  Again, I’d just ask you to really think about the scale of organization required for what you’re  suggesting. It would be absolutely vast, and the motivations for it are like something out of the mind of a James Bond super-villain, not real people. (But again, all so much more easy to believe  if you already accept the dogmas of conspiracy theory).

            Many of the things you are ascribing to mind-control and conspiracy and just human nature. People have always been sheep, led by the nose by strongmen and corrupt governments. This is nothing new, and it doesn’t require the positing of some gigantic conspiracy with super-villain motivations to explain it.

            “Oh really, Minority Report is less than a decade old and yet here all of the technology for  surveilance coming on line.  Perhaps nothing more than synchromysticism or perhaps propaganda.   The point of predictive programming is to aclimatize people for cultural changes that are not in  their best interests whatsoever.”

            There is of course another option that you seem blind to, which is that the people who wrote it were trying to warn us of the dangers they could foresee. This has always been one of the primary motivations of science fiction. Thanks to the movie in question, Minority Report, we can refer to the real-world technology being developed in a popular context the public can understand. There have even been mainstream news reports that make reference to ‘Minority Report’ in their coverage of this tech. People who read this are not thinking, “Well I’m used to that thanks to having watched a movie about it, therefore I will have no problem in accepting it”. They are more likely thinking, “Oh shit that movie depicted a nightmare future we must avoid!” A movie like this makes it easier to warn people and discuss its implications.

            It is no coincidence that the majority of people who constitute science-fiction fans are individualistic, anti-authoritarian kind of people who take an active interest in subjects like the abuse of technology to control or surveil the population. Many science fiction writers even take active, public stances against this kind of stuff. If what you say is true then surely the opposite would be the case? I for one am far more aware and cautious of the motivations of governments and corporations because of the science fiction I’ve read and watched!

          • Xen

             It’s not a casual dismissal at all. It’s a dismissal based on many years of being involved with this culture and knowing from the inside what kinds of people are attracted to it and what sort of effects it has on them. The authorities actively tried to wipe out psychedelic/hippie culture.  They were afraid of it. They imprisoned Timothy Leary on false charges. In fact there’s a news story right now about how cointelpro tried to prevent the Rolling Stones from spreading their  ‘corrupting’ influence across America.

            This culture was strongly anti-authoritarian and anti-establishment. It encouraged individualism and protest. I don’t see how these things constitute any kind of upgrading of slave-culture.  There is extremely strong anti-establishment feeling across the western world at the moment, and  it is in part thanks to hippie and other counter-culture movements that these sentiments have  been enabled to thrive. Even conspiracy-theory culture owes a debt to these movements.

            I personally feel that a lot of people who create the kinds of conspiracy theories such as the  one in question here are involved in a game of one upmanship. A kind of “more radical than thou” desire to outdo their predecessors and be the one to uncover the shocking new revelation.

            I find the idea of any kind of Officialdom trying to blame the ancient Mayans for a planned artificial apocalypse to be completely laughable.

            You’re saying a lot of unproven stuff is “real”, which ties back to what I was saying previously  about this whole conspiracy theory relying on several dubious presuppositions for it to be valid.  Yeah, HAARP is real, but does it do all that stuff conspiracy theorists say it does? If we are to  believe them, then it is nothing short of a super-weapon capable of global mind control,  earthquakes and weather control. All unproven. All extremely dubious. And as other commenters have noted here, many of the individuals who make claims to this effect are dubious characters in themselves.

            You’re throwing the whole conspiracy caboodle into this scenario and hoping something sticks.  Again, I’d just ask you to really think about the scale of organization required for what you’re  suggesting. It would be absolutely vast, and the motivations for it are like something out of the mind of a James Bond super-villain, not real people. (But again, all so much more easy to believe  if you already accept the dogmas of conspiracy theory).

            Many of the things you are ascribing to mind-control and conspiracy and just human nature. People have always been sheep, led by the nose by strongmen and corrupt governments. This is nothing new, and it doesn’t require the positing of some gigantic conspiracy with super-villain motivations to explain it.

            “Oh really, Minority Report is less than a decade old and yet here all of the technology for  surveilance coming on line.  Perhaps nothing more than synchromysticism or perhaps propaganda.   The point of predictive programming is to aclimatize people for cultural changes that are not in  their best interests whatsoever.”

            There is of course another option that you seem blind to, which is that the people who wrote it were trying to warn us of the dangers they could foresee. This has always been one of the primary motivations of science fiction. Thanks to the movie in question, Minority Report, we can refer to the real-world technology being developed in a popular context the public can understand. There have even been mainstream news reports that make reference to ‘Minority Report’ in their coverage of this tech. People who read this are not thinking, “Well I’m used to that thanks to having watched a movie about it, therefore I will have no problem in accepting it”. They are more likely thinking, “Oh shit that movie depicted a nightmare future we must avoid!” A movie like this makes it easier to warn people and discuss its implications.

            It is no coincidence that the majority of people who constitute science-fiction fans are individualistic, anti-authoritarian kind of people who take an active interest in subjects like the abuse of technology to control or surveil the population. Many science fiction writers even take active, public stances against this kind of stuff. If what you say is true then surely the opposite would be the case? I for one am far more aware and cautious of the motivations of governments and corporations because of the science fiction I’ve read and watched!

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             

            It’s not a casual dismissal at all. It’s a dismissal based on many
            years of being involved with this culture and knowing from the inside
            what kinds of people are attracted to it and what sort of effects it has
            on them. The authorities actively tried to wipe out psychedelic/hippie
            culture.  They were afraid of it. They imprisoned Timothy Leary on false
            charges. In fact there’s a news story right now about
            how cointelpro tried to prevent the Rolling Stones from spreading their
             ‘corrupting’ influence across America.

            This culture was strongly anti-authoritarian and anti-establishment.
            It encouraged individualism and protest. I don’t see how these things
            constitute any kind of upgrading of slave-culture.  There is extremely
            strong anti-establishment feeling across the western world at the
            moment, and  it is in part thanks to hippie and other counter-culture
            movements that these sentiments have  been enabled to thrive. Even
            conspiracy-theory culture owes a debt to these movements.

            You are avoiding the point at hand completely.  Did you even watch his presentation?  The point is not that ALL or ANY psychedelic experts, gurus, participants, students etc are inherently corrupted unknowingly.  The point is there is a long sordid history of pharmakopia being used by so called elites to maintain mind control over their flocks.

            The New Age movement was in fact masterminded in large part through the efforts of families directly connected to the CIA and the Eugenics movements. 
            Do you disagree with these facts?  If so on what basis.  Let’s go point by point.

            Otherwise I’m not interested in defending against your ideas of what I am saying versus what I am attempting to communicate.

            Deal?

             

  • maaaaan

    great, more egomaniac armchair jockeying conspiracy theorists telling people on the internet how to think. I was on a thread with this Jan guy recently and the raving claims he makes about Big Brother seeding psycedelics into the “mainstream” and Mckenna brothers being intelligence operatives are absolutely batshit and illogical. The guy is completely obsessed. If anything, I’d be more worried about Jan himself as a seeder of disinformation

    waste of peoples’ time

  • maaaaan

    great, more egomaniac armchair jockeying conspiracy theorists telling people on the internet how to think. I was on a thread with this Jan guy recently and the raving claims he makes about Big Brother seeding psycedelics into the “mainstream” and Mckenna brothers being intelligence operatives are absolutely batshit and illogical. The guy is completely obsessed. If anything, I’d be more worried about Jan himself as a seeder of disinformation

    waste of peoples’ time

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

       Numerous ad hominem attacks, any chance you’d like to discuss the evidence cited?  It’s so chic to dismiss people without providing evidence on this thread, all from people you never see posting here on a regular basis and parroting the exact dismissals you see otherwise.  How convenient.  It’s almost like watching a YouTube video gain 30k hits in a day with no further comments or thumbs up or down, surely a glitch in the matrix if you will and nothing more sir….Cognitive infiltration vice squad washing the untidy minds of the awakening masses one bot at a time?  Another stolen election statistically proven and another new bus pulls into the casino. 

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

         Or it is akin to watching gossip and rumors overwhelm critical and independent thinking.  Looks like WW3, ‘shut up man the games on’….

        • maaaaan

          ” Or it is akin to watching gossip and rumors overwhelm critical and independent thinking”

          That’s Jan’s job, not mine

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        He’s got a very unlikeable air about him. Stop screaming Ad Hominem  and let live the freedom to insult.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

          You project a lot you know that?  I didn’t scream anything, I pointed out when someone is attacking the man rather than the argument.  You know, killing the messenger.  I completely understand Rorscharch at this point and time.

          • Calypso_1

            Hermann or Kovacs?

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            I don’t know why you think my obvious hyperbole is some sort of logical flaw that discounts my argument. It’s not like it is some sort of surprise to me(or anyone) that I’m exaggerating for effect.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            I don’t know why you think my obvious hyperbole is some sort of logical flaw that discounts my argument. It’s not like it is some sort of surprise to me(or anyone) that I’m exaggerating for effect.

          • Calypso_1

            I was reading an interesting passage this morning on the history of Greek scientific thought which indentified their fixation with verbal logic as the ‘limiting’ factor in their inability to develop the calculus.  They simply could not make the connections as unveiled in verbal thought paradoxes into abstract mathematical models.
             
            I notice that you use the word hyperbole, which is interesting because it was the reply of the stoic Chrysippos to the Demokritean paradox of conic sections that led to this collapse of dialectic logic in the limits of infinitesimal zero. 
            So not only are we finding a significant deficit of humor in this nuovo dialectique, but as I have often seen, a significant inability in teh maths, despite protests to rhetorical ‘logic’ being foundational to everything
             
            But as Mr. W.  would have it back to the topic at hand:
            For example this Master of logic in his video (around 12:30) goes on an romping escapade through – Mindcontrol, geo engineering, Gaea hypothesis, new age shamanism, porn, football, quantum physics, Kantian irrationality “getting people to believe they have no ability to find the truth through their five senses”……”the whole new age movement rests a lot of theories on this idea of quantum physics…”
             
            Really.  Does he know anything about quantum physics.  I dare say he is indeed familiar with some airy fairy, new age dribble, but the science, the math…the reality.  Doubt it. 
            But it’s an easy pull because neither does the audience.  And no your senses will not tell you the truth about everything.  That is utterly absurd.  Go watch a gamma ray.  Go listen to Ultrasound.  Oh it can be done.  But it takes people who actually know how to do something, like math and engineering to make it possible.  And none of them, when tasked with such an endeavor sit around spouting ‘ad hominem’ ‘strawman’ ‘red herring’. 
             
             

      • maaaaan

        The guy’s a crank waggling circumstantial evidence to postulate yet another pointless uberconspiracy on the part of the Omniscient power elite who have always known about LSD and how to subjugate populations with its introduction (through means jan is unable to explain, big surprise). He’s just another egoic alex Jonesian arousing fear and mistrust, while making a buck off of dragging dead men’s names through shit-mud. 

        Besides, we know whos REALLY in control.

        It’s the ALIENS maaan. The ALIENS ARE BEHIND IT ALL.

        Anyone who disagrees is inciting AD HOMINEM attacks!

      • maaaaan

        The guy’s a crank waggling circumstantial evidence to postulate yet another pointless uberconspiracy on the part of the Omniscient power elite who have always known about LSD and how to subjugate populations with its introduction (through means jan is unable to explain, big surprise). He’s just another egoic alex Jonesian arousing fear and mistrust, while making a buck off of dragging dead men’s names through shit-mud. 

        Besides, we know whos REALLY in control.

        It’s the ALIENS maaan. The ALIENS ARE BEHIND IT ALL.

        Anyone who disagrees is inciting AD HOMINEM attacks!

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          noo maaaan the aliens are working for the Government maaaan.

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          noo maaaan the aliens are working for the Government maaaan.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             Right because that has anything to do with the topic at hand.  Way to muddy up the conversation for no reason. 

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            something something.. sense of humor.. something…

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Its the hippies maaaan, the hippies are invading our neighbourhoods like zombies maaaan.

      • http://twitter.com/TDecentralized Tommy Decentralized

        Find my first comment. I address some of the “evidence” 

        I can go point by point and address all of it,well mostly the old stuff, on Wasson and company.

        “The greatest gift I could give anyone is to help them become aware of their divinity.
        The greatest teachers I have found in this regard are known as “Abraham”.

        Abraham is a collective body of non-physical beings. They are channeled through a medium known as Esther Hicks. 

        No before you decide you have already heard enough. (non-physical beings? shea right!)

        Here me out.

        I have searched my entire life for what I would call a Unified Philosophy.

        What I have realized is that any philosophy or belief system is simply a choice
        and and that those choices still will be enacted according to Universal laws.
        Meaning whatever you decide “is”, IS. 

        Universal laws meaning the same everywhere at all times forever.

        Abraham has in the most succinct and lucid manner expressed this Unified philosophy.
        Esther and Jerry Hicks are the mediums by which we receive their non-physical teaching.

        NOW, if you now me, you might say Im a rather positive person. And I would say yes and evermore so now that i understand the power available to me to shape my life and dreams as I see fit according to the principles of Abraham.

        Please watch this video and let me know what you think or any questions you might have.
        Some background is necessary to understand what is being communicated.

        Essentially the most powerful law in the Universe is “The Law Of Attraction”

        The Law of Attraction states that like is drawn unto like. That everything in this Uni-verse (Uni = One, Verse = Song) (One Harmonious Voice) (Ommmmmmm)
        is composed of vibration. Therefore everything is influenced by vibration. This is also known as the “Psychoacoustic Principle”
        -Camron Wiltshire

        ——-
        You sound like Mckenna LOL

      • http://twitter.com/TDecentralized Tommy Decentralized

        Find my first comment. I address some of the “evidence” 

        I can go point by point and address all of it,well mostly the old stuff, on Wasson and company.

        “The greatest gift I could give anyone is to help them become aware of their divinity.
        The greatest teachers I have found in this regard are known as “Abraham”.

        Abraham is a collective body of non-physical beings. They are channeled through a medium known as Esther Hicks. 

        No before you decide you have already heard enough. (non-physical beings? shea right!)

        Here me out.

        I have searched my entire life for what I would call a Unified Philosophy.

        What I have realized is that any philosophy or belief system is simply a choice
        and and that those choices still will be enacted according to Universal laws.
        Meaning whatever you decide “is”, IS. 

        Universal laws meaning the same everywhere at all times forever.

        Abraham has in the most succinct and lucid manner expressed this Unified philosophy.
        Esther and Jerry Hicks are the mediums by which we receive their non-physical teaching.

        NOW, if you now me, you might say Im a rather positive person. And I would say yes and evermore so now that i understand the power available to me to shape my life and dreams as I see fit according to the principles of Abraham.

        Please watch this video and let me know what you think or any questions you might have.
        Some background is necessary to understand what is being communicated.

        Essentially the most powerful law in the Universe is “The Law Of Attraction”

        The Law of Attraction states that like is drawn unto like. That everything in this Uni-verse (Uni = One, Verse = Song) (One Harmonious Voice) (Ommmmmmm)
        is composed of vibration. Therefore everything is influenced by vibration. This is also known as the “Psychoacoustic Principle”
        -Camron Wiltshire

        ——-
        You sound like Mckenna LOL

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           I’m not just the hair club president.
          I’m also a client ;)

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           I’m not just the hair club president.
          I’m also a client ;)

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      He didn’t say the Mckenna brothers are intelligence operatives.  He said Terrence completely parrots the philosophies created by the humanist Huxleys.   I don’t believe you have given this any real thought and yet you feel you can pronounce that it is a “waste of time”. Suit yourself but at least do more than attack your own strawmen.

      Anyone who wants to dive further I would suggest heading to gnosticmedia.com as you are going to find a more intelligent discourse than is present at this site I’m afraid.  Que the snarky nerd hatred swarm for pointing out the bleeding obvious.

      • craig poet

         it’s Terence with one R. just as Terence Stamp with one R, he was the star of Meetings With Remarkable Men, the movie..You see it’s like Aliens or UFO’s the closer you get the more they move back just enough, to create the illusion.No matter how many “facts” you dig up it only becomes stranger then you can suppose.2012 is about time cycles, but if that is only a fact, then you will never see the shift, the sense of time slowing down or speeding up.That’s why all this conspiracy stuff surrounding Terence is extra-novel.If we concentrate on Tim Leary, we have moved too far back for Jan’s attention span which is fixated on Terence.See what I mean? where does this all end or begin? What forces are just beyond the shifting illusion? Go after Terence with one R.Turn on, tune in, drop out.Now we can connect the dots to the Beatniks, those bohemian useful idiots.

        • Tom

          Best post so far. =D
          Although I do admire Camron Wilshire’s smarts! Maybe not so much his imagination.

          • craig poet

             There is a lot of smarts around, and I am glad that people dig up stuff, however and I am not smart as others in digging what was dug, dig?To even infer that Terence might have been a willing dupe, or a
            useful idiot, let alone an actual agent of this hidden agenda, which if you  find some evidence of the agenda hidden in university libraries, and so on, but then you have to stand back and wonder why if this one person could connect some dots, then somehow all these dots would line up, but lets stand back again and listen to what people like Terence really were on about, if you take his thought out of context, then you can make it fit your own fact finding puzzle.Am I afraid that I am just another
            late 60’s kid that was fed the LSD cool aid?But wait, it wasn’t just LSD, it was the reality of psychedelic use period, it’s the reality of cultural shifts and hidden agendas, Look what happened to Tim Leary, he was set up for a pot bust.Terence had to take a little different approach, he had to appear a bit fey, no? Those people that are so good at finding recalcitrant facts ought to consider that that same urge can take on a whole different direction, in that connecting desperate realities don’t follow the same course, we are looking for something other, something that connects where you would not normally look.Lets put the scrutiny
            of the scrutiniser through his own agenda, it’s like if you could erase a huge chunk of history in one fell swoop, by erasing the thought they created in the contexts out of which this whole thing arose, put it all in an isolate vacuum and then build your argument.Ha!

  • Ted Heistman

    Plato’s Republic is Old News. That’s basically what it comes down to. The “fourth World” stuff was interesting though. I mean there is something to the criticism here, that he isn’t really backing up a lot of “proof” for these conspiracies.

    But I look at it as people just puting forth ideas and its their interpretation of Plato basically. Not really a conspiracy per se.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      Give me just one example please of where you do not see him backing up his “proof” please.  Provide the time code if it is verbally uttered and the citation corresponding if you can. 

      Plato’s ideas being that there is an elite class designated to do whatever required to maintain power and guide mankind wherever it sees fit.  That we agree on yes, the mechanisms they employ and the sophistry which requires study to identify and thus compensate for intellectually, now that is worthy of every freedom seeking humans attention if you ask me.  Care to comment ?

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      Give me just one example please of where you do not see him backing up his “proof” please.  Provide the time code if it is verbally uttered and the citation corresponding if you can. 

      Plato’s ideas being that there is an elite class designated to do whatever required to maintain power and guide mankind wherever it sees fit.  That we agree on yes, the mechanisms they employ and the sophistry which requires study to identify and thus compensate for intellectually, now that is worthy of every freedom seeking humans attention if you ask me.  Care to comment ?

      • Ted Heistman

        Ha ha! He just mentioned Plato’s Republic! Really though comes down to a battle of ideas. Its only a conspiracy if you are a walking meat puppet with no ideas of your own. Then you easily fall prey. All I am saying is that this discussion could do with some reframing.

        People get up in arms and say “that’s horse shit! All these people don’t have ideas!”

        Basically its because of how this thing is framed. Yeah, they are idiots, but they are reacting to the way the discussion is framed. The precedent is conspiracy. But really, its a battle of ideas and better ideas need to be presented at this point rather then simply pointing out what various elites believe for shock value.

      • Ted Heistman

        Ha ha! He just mentioned Plato’s Republic! Really though comes down to a battle of ideas. Its only a conspiracy if you are a walking meat puppet with no ideas of your own. Then you easily fall prey. All I am saying is that this discussion could do with some reframing.

        People get up in arms and say “that’s horse shit! All these people don’t have ideas!”

        Basically its because of how this thing is framed. Yeah, they are idiots, but they are reacting to the way the discussion is framed. The precedent is conspiracy. But really, its a battle of ideas and better ideas need to be presented at this point rather then simply pointing out what various elites believe for shock value.

        • Ted Heistman

          I mean what values are being taken for granted here? Basically Libertarian Values. Small government, gold backed currency, no foreign adventure wars, national soverighnty, etc.  That’s simply one point of view.

          These ideas must to battle with other ideas, not just point out that elites don’t believe these ideas.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

            Where do you see those values being taken for granted? 
            It’s amazing how many people assume that because I ask them to provide evidence for their claims that I must be defending all of Jan’s claims.  False dilemma fallacy is teh suck.

            Thanks for commenting Ted. 

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        We get it, sophistry is everywhere, and it’s terrible. But why do we have to accept all these guys ideas simply because he also attacks sophistry.

        It’s been around for generations, and it will take generations to kill it. Once the hundredth monkey recognizes it, real things can happen, but we don’t have to jump down his personal rabbit hole. People are skeptical of him simply because we don’t have the cultural framework to deal with his kinds of ideas as a whole.

        Let’s just settle with rejecting sophism, because there are innumerable rabbit holes to delve into without it, and, I can guarantee many will be a waste of time.

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        We get it, sophistry is everywhere, and it’s terrible. But why do we have to accept all these guys ideas simply because he also attacks sophistry.

        It’s been around for generations, and it will take generations to kill it. Once the hundredth monkey recognizes it, real things can happen, but we don’t have to jump down his personal rabbit hole. People are skeptical of him simply because we don’t have the cultural framework to deal with his kinds of ideas as a whole.

        Let’s just settle with rejecting sophism, because there are innumerable rabbit holes to delve into without it, and, I can guarantee many will be a waste of time.

        • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

           I’m not commanding anyone to do anything and even if I did why would you listen?  You dont’ have to do anything you dont’ want.  I just posted an article.  Did I say anywhere in here that I expect everyone to jump down this or that rabbit hole?  Projection is the worst part about attempting conversation these days.

          I agree rejecting sophism is great, there is a big world out there with literally millions of people who have no idea what the term means, please keep that in mind, just because you are on board doesn’t mean the 16 year old kid who finds this today is as well. 

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            well you jump down anyone’s throat that gives any reason, personal, or with “improper trivium use”. and they are rejecting it for the most part because they don’t wan’t to enter that guy’s worldview. It’s not “commanding” but you sure are trying to shame them into doing research they have no interest in. What if a scientologist were saying the same kinds of things “don’t bite it until you do your own research, please, come to our meetings so you can find out what we really are about”.

            On that 16 year old kid, yes he needs to know about sophism, and how to defend against it, BUT this sure as hell is not a good introduction to it. Some of Jan’s earlier stuff maybe that focused only on the bare bones of the trivium alone. 

            And for the love of god, tone down the logical fallacy talk. I get that they are important, but you quite often smugly rampage with the fallacy fallacy. From the get go, if i take your path, I can commit the fallacy fallacy fallacy,where I dismiss all of your ideas due to a single fallacy fallacy. We got people on disinfo now screaming “Ad Hominem!” whenever they get insulted, even if it isn’t being used for a premise of an argument. You want everything rigid and tied down and, but I’m sorry to tell you, the human communication experience is not so simple. Half the fun is sorting through the bullshit, confusion and lies, and logical fallacy talk just disrupts the rhythm.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            well you jump down anyone’s throat that gives any reason, personal, or with “improper trivium use”. and they are rejecting it for the most part because they don’t wan’t to enter that guy’s worldview. It’s not “commanding” but you sure are trying to shame them into doing research they have no interest in. What if a scientologist were saying the same kinds of things “don’t bite it until you do your own research, please, come to our meetings so you can find out what we really are about”.

            On that 16 year old kid, yes he needs to know about sophism, and how to defend against it, BUT this sure as hell is not a good introduction to it. Some of Jan’s earlier stuff maybe that focused only on the bare bones of the trivium alone. 

            And for the love of god, tone down the logical fallacy talk. I get that they are important, but you quite often smugly rampage with the fallacy fallacy. From the get go, if i take your path, I can commit the fallacy fallacy fallacy,where I dismiss all of your ideas due to a single fallacy fallacy. We got people on disinfo now screaming “Ad Hominem!” whenever they get insulted, even if it isn’t being used for a premise of an argument. You want everything rigid and tied down and, but I’m sorry to tell you, the human communication experience is not so simple. Half the fun is sorting through the bullshit, confusion and lies, and logical fallacy talk just disrupts the rhythm.

          • Misinformation

            “It’s not “commanding” but you sure are trying to shame them into doing research they have no interest in.”

            If they’re commenting, they have interest.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             Thanks Misinfo.  My feelings exactly. 

          • Misinformation

             I don’t envy your attempt to continuously try and keep disinfo readers on point with constructive conversation

          • Misinformation

             I don’t envy your attempt to continuously try and keep disinfo readers on point with constructive conversation

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             I appreciate your support always.  Yes it is sad that conversations tend to revolve around showmanship rather reasoned philosophy or inspired action.  Thanks for helping evolve the dialog and for your comments.  Cheers!

          • Calypso_1

            You don’t think inspired action involves showmanship or most ‘reasoned philosophy’ comes across as uninspirational and restrained because it is bound by forced limitations that most minds can laugh at and dance around?

          • Calypso_1

            If you don’t envy his attempts, don’t envy the method either.  Look at most of the replies.  That is what repulses people.  Wiltshire’s replies are as oft off topic because the are just abusive of peoples ‘so called’ logical faculties.
            The more successful conversational threads on this site tend to be far more colloquial and often do go off topic and come back in surprising ways.
             

          • Misinformation

             That’s the problem, I don’t see a lot of “successful conversational threads” on this site. Ime, if a response is more than “1 day ago” from the previous post, it won’t get answered…the thread is already dead.

            I enjoy a lot of the content but I can barely stomach the comments. Trolls and snarky one-liners are the norm. Even when it appears that there is about to be something interesting, it generally turns out to be a monologue by someone who simply came into the “conversation” to reinforce their opinion.

            At least Cameron tries to keep things on-track. I hate the constant moving of the goal-line. I’d post here more often if I thought anything would actually get fleshed out.

          • Calypso_1

            Try posting as a disqus user where you can choose to follow fellow users and have notifications of your responses.  It becomes easier to to see the conversational threads that occur.  Sometimes there are incredible conversations that occur on posts that are weeks old. 

          • Misinformation

             I should really spend less time online anyway and more time dealing with my own demons.

            That said, thanks for the disqus idea and responses in general ( I was ignorant of these options). I will look into it.

            I suppose I should return this thread to it’s regularly scheduled programming, now.

          • Misinformation

             I should really spend less time online anyway and more time dealing with my own demons.

            That said, thanks for the disqus idea and responses in general ( I was ignorant of these options). I will look into it.

            I suppose I should return this thread to it’s regularly scheduled programming, now.

          • Calypso_1

            Balancing real life with time online is a significant challenge in society these days. So I applaud your recognizing the need to establish those boundaries. However, there are those of us that do use Disinfo, in part, to deal with our ‘demons’ (and there are varying opinions regarding the natures of these : ). So if you do feel like expressing these aspects of yourself here, you might find it’s a pretty safe and open environment (and fun)!

          • Calypso_1

            Also, why put the onus on others for your not posting. Thresh things out yourself. Find a partner in crime to regularly respond to. If it’s Camron so be it. Share your voice and ignore that you don’t like. I’m sorry you can’t stand the comments. I myself am a connoisseur of snark and see little harm in the joyful play of one-liners. But I also have frustrations with topics that others can’t understand or follow. It takes time to build a community and knowledgebase. What are your interests?

          • Calypso_1

            Also, why put the onus on others for your not posting. Thresh things out yourself. Find a partner in crime to regularly respond to. If it’s Camron so be it. Share your voice and ignore that you don’t like. I’m sorry you can’t stand the comments. I myself am a connoisseur of snark and see little harm in the joyful play of one-liners. But I also have frustrations with topics that others can’t understand or follow. It takes time to build a community and knowledgebase. What are your interests?

          • H+

            More than just on this thread… many people are attacking Jan, changing the subject and generally not addressing any of the material he presents. Would you do that for Fantasy Football? This should get interesting. I for one have done my own homework. It’s nearly useless to present it here but I wanted to balance out the bullshit somewhat.  Insult or dodge if you like, but surely you are familiar with the subject we are discussing? 

            Kudos to whoever can name this quote:

            “But I think that insofar as dictators become more and more scientific, more and more concerned with the technically perfect, perfectly running society, they will be more and more interested in the kind of techniques which I imagined and described from existing realities in BNW. So that, it seems to me then, that this ultimate revolution is not really very far away, that we, already a number of techniques for bringing about this kind of control are here, and it remains to be seen when and where and by whom they will first be applied in any large scale.

            And first let me talk about the, a little bit about the, improvement in the techniques of terrorism. I think there have been improvements. Pavlov after all made some extremely profound observations both on animals and on human beings. And he found among other things that conditioning techniques applied to animals or humans in a state either of psychological or physical stress sank in so to say, very deeply into the mind-body of the creature, and were extremely difficult to get rid of. That they seemed to be embedded more deeply than other forms of conditioning.And this of course, this fact was discovered empirically in the past. People did make use of many of these techniques, but the difference between the old empirical intuitive methods and our own methods is the difference between the, a sort of, hit and miss craftsman’s point of view and the genuinely scientific point of view. I think there is a real difference between ourselves and say the inquisitors of the 16th century. We know much more precisely what we are doing, than they knew and we can extend because of our theoretical knowledge, we can extend what we are doing over a wider area with a greater assurance of being producing something that really works.In this context I would like to mention the extremely interesting chapters in Dr. William (sounds like Seargent’s) Battle for the Mind where he points out how intuitively some of the great religious teachers/leaders of the past hit on the Pavlovian method, he speaks specifically of Wesley’s method of producing conversions which were essentially based on the technique of heightening psychological stress to the limit by talking about hellfire and so making people extremely vulnerable to suggestion and then suddenly releasing this stress by offering hopes of heaven and this is a very interesting chapter of showing how completely on purely intuitive and empirical grounds a skilled natural psychologist, as Wesley was, could discover these Pavlovian methods.Well, as I say, we now know the reason why these techniques worked and there’s no doubt at all that we can if we wanted to, carry them much further than was possible in the past. And of course in the history of, recent history of brainwashing, both as applied to prisoners of war and to the lower personnel within the communist party in China, we see that the pavlovian methods have been applied systematically and with evidently with extraordinary efficacy. I think there can be no doubt that by the application of these methods a very large army of totally devoted people has been created. The conditioning has been driven in, so to say, by a kind of psychological iontophoresis into the very depths of the people’s being, and has got so deep that it’s very difficult to ever be rooted out, and these methods, I think, are a real refinement on the older methods of terror because they combine methods of terror with methods of acceptance that the person who is subjected to a form of terroristic stress but for the purpose of inducing a kind of voluntary quotes acceptance of the state the psychological state in which he has been driven and the state of affairs in which he finds himself.So there is, as I say, there has been a definite improvement in the, even in the techniques of terrorism. But then we come to the consideration of other techniques, non-terroristic techniques, for inducing consent and inducing people to love their servitude. Here, I don’t think I can possibly go into all of them, because I don’t know all of them, but I mean I can mention the more obvious methods, which can now be used and are based on recent scientific findings. First of all there are the methods connected with straight suggestion and hypnosis.” This is disinfo.com… the last place I would expect people to throw around ‘conspiracy theorist’ as a slight… isn’t that why you are here…? Enlighten me.

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             I’m not jumping down anyones throat.  I think you are projecting again.  Just take it or leave it.  There are dozens of stories, comment elsewhere if you are so butt hurt over opinions.

            Also don’t propose to tell me what to do or how to act.    I’m not the strawman you are attacking

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             I’m not jumping down anyones throat.  I think you are projecting again.  Just take it or leave it.  There are dozens of stories, comment elsewhere if you are so butt hurt over opinions.

            Also don’t propose to tell me what to do or how to act.    I’m not the strawman you are attacking

      • Calypso_1

        Humans seeking freedom from what?

  • Ted Heistman

    Cameron, seriously, how would you like to see people react to this?
    “Oh no, something something Omega Point!!! They want to take our guns!!! They want as to give up our rights and National soverignty!!!!!!”

    I mean these are IDEAS here. They are ARGUMENTS. Its an even playing field on that level. This guy isn’t really engaging any of these ideas. He’s all like “WOOO, This Jesuit said this stuff, OOOH a Jesuit!” Terrence Mckenna believed this guy!!!!!”

    I mean WTF, seriously? You don’t believe in evolution? Are you a young Earth Creationist? Lots of people aren’t.

    Terrence McKenna was engaging these ideas. This guy isn’t.

    • Ted Heistman

      I mean the above in a respectful way. I am behind 9/11 truth and stuff like that. But presenting philosophical ideas as conspiracy is….just wrong headed. Wrong way to frame it.

      Having ideas you don’t agree with is not a conspiracy.

      • Jin The Ninja

         “Having ideas you don’t agree with is not a conspiracy.”

        respectfully, one of the best things you’ve ever said.

      • Jin The Ninja

         “Having ideas you don’t agree with is not a conspiracy.”

        respectfully, one of the best things you’ve ever said.

        • Ted Heistman

          according to you

        • Ted Heistman

          according to you

          • Jin The Ninja

            it was a compliment, not a slight.

          • Ted Heistman

            OK, its one of the bettert things I’ve said*,

            *read by you (biased though you are) in the comments section here on disinfo.

            Thanks!, seriously!

          • Jin The Ninja

            honestly, it was a good point, well-written and clever. our past discussions notwithstanding- i think it was good. i also think you’re being a prat right now, so take it however you want.

          • Jin The Ninja

            honestly, it was a good point, well-written and clever. our past discussions notwithstanding- i think it was good. i also think you’re being a prat right now, so take it however you want.

          • Ted Heistman

             Just having some fun with you!

          • Ted Heistman

             Just having some fun with you!

          • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

             Jin do you suffer from Aspergers?  That is about the only way I could see your “compliment” being well intentioned.

          • Jin The Ninja

            lol. actually it must have been exactly that Camron- my Asperger’s; because not only was it well intentioned, but i gave you props for your al jaz english post as well!

          • Jin The Ninja
          • Jin The Ninja
    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

       React to what Ted?  You just lumped together your ideas and I’m supposed to make sense of them?  Have you read his articles or researched the connections he has identified?  I don’t understand what point you are attempting to make.

  • E.Koehn

    So one of the claims made by Jan is that the X-Men comic book is a spin off from the X Club and somehow all of this Fourth World stuff is somehow connected to Jack Kirby’s Fourth World Saga for DC comics. Since we have some Jan supporters here and since Jan DID NOT provide any of his holy citations for these connections in the article I read, I’d love to hear the “evidence” for this.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

      I agree E.Koehn.  He is stretching to far with that connection and it does weaken the very strong connections he has made.  Theories evolve and it is nice to have constructive criticism.  Feel free to post this on gnosticmedia.com if you would like Jan to answer directly. Cheers.

  • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

    INTERVIEWER

    Do you admire Mr. Luce?

    BURROUGHS

    I don’t admire him at all. He has set up one of the
    greatest word and image banks in the world. I mean, there are thousands
    of photos, thousands of words about anything and everything, all in his
    files. All the best pictures go into the files. Of course, they’re
    reduced to microphotos now. ***I’ve been interested in the Mayan system,
    which was a control calendar. You see, their calendar postulated really
    how everyone should feel at a given time, with lucky days, unlucky
    days, et cetera.*** And I feel that Luce’s system is comparable to that.
    It is a control system. It has nothing to do with reporting. Time,
    Life, Fortune is some sort of a police organization.
    http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4424/the-art-of-fiction-no-36-william-s-burroughs

  • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

    INTERVIEWER

    Do you admire Mr. Luce?

    BURROUGHS

    I don’t admire him at all. He has set up one of the
    greatest word and image banks in the world. I mean, there are thousands
    of photos, thousands of words about anything and everything, all in his
    files. All the best pictures go into the files. Of course, they’re
    reduced to microphotos now. ***I’ve been interested in the Mayan system,
    which was a control calendar. You see, their calendar postulated really
    how everyone should feel at a given time, with lucky days, unlucky
    days, et cetera.*** And I feel that Luce’s system is comparable to that.
    It is a control system. It has nothing to do with reporting. Time,
    Life, Fortune is some sort of a police organization.
    http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4424/the-art-of-fiction-no-36-william-s-burroughs

  • Minglewood65

    Remember people, Mr. Wiltshire is the one who claimed Michael Mann was being charged and arrested by a D.A., which never happened, and turned out to be propaganda he fell for. He still insists that ClimateGate is real, when the scientists involved have all been exonerated years ago. And, as the Arctic continues it’s death spiral, for all to see in real time, Mr. Wiltshire continues to bury his head in the sand and call AGW a conspiracy to sell carbon credits.

    • Misinformation

       Melting ice is not proof of AGW. Try again.

    • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

       Try to stay on topic minglewood.  Don’t worry I have more information to make your IBS flare up soon.

  • craig poet

    I haven’t posted on Disinfo since changes, yet I’m logged in from Dangerousminds, watts up with that?
    At any rate I have been following this conversation and watched the video, having said that, I would like to approach this discussion.First off a mind like Terence Mckenna which was great at linking a lot of desperate insights coming from the free association of psychedelic wave history ends.Strictly speaking we are not talking about linear links as such, as much as we talk the talk, where all this dominator paradigm verses cognitive dissonance comes in we see conspiracy in all its shapes and forms.the person who made this video if in effect trying to out Terence Terence on his own terms.If we fill in some connections via Huxley and evil cabals we can find some very association by factoid check.Imagine the irony in Terence’s mind, as if he just bumbled along from The Doors of Perception, and never questioned the source behind the source.A Horse of another color is a horse of course unless if you behold a pale rider, and even if you are speaking to the wrong end his name just might be mister Ed.I’d imagine if you are Nietzsche you would look directly into the horses eyes, and not listen to his mouth so much.As Jim Morrison lyric sez “If all else fails we can whip the horses eyes” …when the still sea conspires an armor” is Jim A useful idiot to Huxley? Is James Joyce an agent of Darwin G.H. Wells, well well? And is the smoking gun the fact that Jorge Luis Borges was a associated supporter of a Argentina oppressive regime? As Mister Mckenna mentioned him, or is it Alfred North Whitehead who coined the term Dove Gray, is this a code word for eugenics? Only the shadows knows, ask Jung or Castaneda for that madder. Burroughs did a quantum leap kundalini-somersault in his clever take on the Mayan calendar, as he was able to see down the time lines and know how the evil cabal would use it, they would abuse it, if not confuse it, but we would all lose it, due to 1984, 2012 is just a shot away.Please allow me to introduce myself, play your Sgt. Peppers Album Backwards and notice Crowley up there with all the other guru’s jugglers and clowns.Like A Rolling Stone, really is code language for the old world order, “you said you would never compromise with the mystery tramp” How far does the rabbit hole go? Only in your Acid Dreams.

  • http://twitter.com/TDecentralized Tommy Decentralized

    As far as I know, no one has verified Jan’s “citations”. That he claims he obtained from various institutes, sometimes having a friend “sneak them out”. Isn’t that illegal?  The few he did post online look legit. But they’re also easy to fake. Also who’s to say the CIA isn’t sending him, and others that obtain JFK related documents, on a wild goose chase? 
    Not all of his interpretations are correct anyway, for an example  when Jan Irvin read a letter on Red Ice radio that, allegedly, is a letter by George Kennan to Gordon Wasson, in April, 1953. It appears the letter sent to Gordon by Kennan, is Kennan rejecting the offer to be recruited into the CIA. Irvin assumes Wasson must be a high level CIA agent, for knowing about the recruitment efforts. The reality is Wasson, Dulles, and Kennan, were all friends. They had worked together previously via The Ford Foundation. Which used grants for Russian students to come to the US to study. A focus being on the liberal arts. By 1953, however, Kennan wrote new strategics in containing communism. Kennan had a “change of heart” by the time that letter was sent. Kennan no longer felt a secret intelligence was needed. That it would be better to talk with Russia and China. That communism could be contained by promoting education, and capitalism, to neighboring and third world countries. Kennan was made head of the Free Russia Fund that focused on exchange students with Russia. Kennan also felt the US should support anti-communist countries as well. That there was no need for the CIA. In my opinion it was these new strategies for containment of communism, that Kennan proposed to congress, that Kennan was referring to in the letter Jan read. It doesn’t make sense that Kennan would work indirectly for the CIA, because by 1953, when the letter was sent, Kennan opposed the existence of the CIA. Kennan also regretted many of his talks he gave, and papers he wrote previously. How they were being misconstrued in cold war conduct. Which he talks about in his Memoirs 1925 – 1950. Therefore I feel Jan Irvin’s speculation that the letter meant Kennan would secretly work for the CIA, is false.
    Kennan gave one final speech in 1953 (as far as I can tell) at the Century Club, whereas Kennan expressed his distaste of the militarization of containment, and opposed the CIA. Wasson, Dulles, and de Mohrenschildt, all favored the White Russians, who were opposed to the communist Red Russians. The White Russians were Christians, and viewed communism as atheism. John F Kennedy, whom also was a Christian that favored the White Russians. Ended up approving the CIA’s Bay of Pigs. This did not sit well with George Kennan at all. Kennan felt the arms race, policing the world, and the CIA, were out of control. Irvin, like so many others, so casually say the CIA was behind the JFK assassination. And perhaps they were, however, in the case of Kennan being included as part of a conspiracy to do so, is highly misleading. Since by 1953 and on wards Kennan opposed cold war conduct, and the CIA’s existence.

  • http://twitter.com/TDecentralized Tommy Decentralized

    As far as I know, no one has verified Jan’s “citations”. That he claims he obtained from various institutes, sometimes having a friend “sneak them out”. Isn’t that illegal?  The few he did post online look legit. But they’re also easy to fake. Also who’s to say the CIA isn’t sending him, and others that obtain JFK related documents, on a wild goose chase? 
    Not all of his interpretations are correct anyway, for an example  when Jan Irvin read a letter on Red Ice radio that, allegedly, is a letter by George Kennan to Gordon Wasson, in April, 1953. It appears the letter sent to Gordon by Kennan, is Kennan rejecting the offer to be recruited into the CIA. Irvin assumes Wasson must be a high level CIA agent, for knowing about the recruitment efforts. The reality is Wasson, Dulles, and Kennan, were all friends. They had worked together previously via The Ford Foundation. Which used grants for Russian students to come to the US to study. A focus being on the liberal arts. By 1953, however, Kennan wrote new strategics in containing communism. Kennan had a “change of heart” by the time that letter was sent. Kennan no longer felt a secret intelligence was needed. That it would be better to talk with Russia and China. That communism could be contained by promoting education, and capitalism, to neighboring and third world countries. Kennan was made head of the Free Russia Fund that focused on exchange students with Russia. Kennan also felt the US should support anti-communist countries as well. That there was no need for the CIA. In my opinion it was these new strategies for containment of communism, that Kennan proposed to congress, that Kennan was referring to in the letter Jan read. It doesn’t make sense that Kennan would work indirectly for the CIA, because by 1953, when the letter was sent, Kennan opposed the existence of the CIA. Kennan also regretted many of his talks he gave, and papers he wrote previously. How they were being misconstrued in cold war conduct. Which he talks about in his Memoirs 1925 – 1950. Therefore I feel Jan Irvin’s speculation that the letter meant Kennan would secretly work for the CIA, is false.
    Kennan gave one final speech in 1953 (as far as I can tell) at the Century Club, whereas Kennan expressed his distaste of the militarization of containment, and opposed the CIA. Wasson, Dulles, and de Mohrenschildt, all favored the White Russians, who were opposed to the communist Red Russians. The White Russians were Christians, and viewed communism as atheism. John F Kennedy, whom also was a Christian that favored the White Russians. Ended up approving the CIA’s Bay of Pigs. This did not sit well with George Kennan at all. Kennan felt the arms race, policing the world, and the CIA, were out of control. Irvin, like so many others, so casually say the CIA was behind the JFK assassination. And perhaps they were, however, in the case of Kennan being included as part of a conspiracy to do so, is highly misleading. Since by 1953 and on wards Kennan opposed cold war conduct, and the CIA’s existence.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    I really wish he would just stick to his Trivium and try to foster that understanding in more people. That in itself is a life’s work, and he should be happy with it. Unfortunately he seems to be falling into the same trap that the likes of David Icke snowballed into.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    I really wish he would just stick to his Trivium and try to foster that understanding in more people. That in itself is a life’s work, and he should be happy with it. Unfortunately he seems to be falling into the same trap that the likes of David Icke snowballed into.

    • Ted Heistman

      Yeah, that Trivium stuff is pretty good. Didn’t he get it from John Taylor Gatto, though?

    • Ted Heistman

      Yeah, that Trivium stuff is pretty good. Didn’t he get it from John Taylor Gatto, though?

      • http://www.sacredgeometryinternational.com/ Camron Wiltshire

         I believe Gene Odening but it’s for everyone.  It’s essentially scientific method for processing information that has been suppressed to enable the outdoor insane asylum we call American Culture.

    • Monkey See Monkey Do

      The classical education movement is also quite limited and has a tendency to romantacize the past with some illusory ‘golden age’ of thought. The trivium in the classical sense is also extremely ethnocentric which is probably contributing to Jan Irvin delusions. (and his followers)

    • Monkey See Monkey Do

      The classical education movement is also quite limited and has a tendency to romantacize the past with some illusory ‘golden age’ of thought. The trivium in the classical sense is also extremely ethnocentric which is probably contributing to Jan Irvin delusions. (and his followers)

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        I’m noticing a sort of tendency that shuns independent thought. You must back up any argument with a strict grounded fact, or it is to be discarded. It leaves no room for speculation, or situations where the information is unknown or loose.

        But paradoxically, it is almost like it is becoming a form of its own opposite, sophistry. Instead of tricking people into things by actually using logical fallacies, you become well versed enough in them in order attempt to shut down argument by calling out the logical fallacies (even if the claim to fallacy isn’t a terribly strong claim.) It appears that negative sophistry is still sophistry.

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        I’m noticing a sort of tendency that shuns independent thought. You must back up any argument with a strict grounded fact, or it is to be discarded. It leaves no room for speculation, or situations where the information is unknown or loose.

        But paradoxically, it is almost like it is becoming a form of its own opposite, sophistry. Instead of tricking people into things by actually using logical fallacies, you become well versed enough in them in order attempt to shut down argument by calling out the logical fallacies (even if the claim to fallacy isn’t a terribly strong claim.) It appears that negative sophistry is still sophistry.

  • costumedfool

    the comments here seem slightly…hysterical.  this is an informal, conversational overview of the research he has done with a theme running through it of…”don’t believe everything you think..everything you’ve read…everything you’ve been  told”…even if it’s wrapped up in the costume of rebellion (i.e. drugs) and favored authors.  you must recall that whenever ‘renegade/outlaw’ authors remain in print and find broad ranging support from the power structure there is a reason that serves the system.  why is esalen so precious to your world view?  it’s pretentious and expensive and is lucky it has cool hot tubs on the cliffs and the pacific ocean.  put this place in kansas and then see how attractive it is?  

  • CuriousGorge

    Can someone explain to me what the overall significance of his message entails?  Regardless of whether or not his theories are accurate, what do we have to be concerned about?  Do his article and video simply seek out to correct our worldviews, or is it more than that?  Does believing these philosophies put forth by people such as Aldous Huxley, Terence McKenna, and the New age movements put as at risk of losing our autonomy and bowing down to a centralized elite force?  I just don’t see where his arguments carry any practical significance, if they do. 

    • BrianApocalypse

       Don’t worry, you’re already correct. Some people are always scared of new ideas, especially if they have an already established belief system, and they’ll try and distort and destroy anything that threatens it.

    • BrianApocalypse

       Don’t worry, you’re already correct. Some people are always scared of new ideas, especially if they have an already established belief system, and they’ll try and distort and destroy anything that threatens it.

  • Js2izanit

    Some of Irvin’s claims do not follow from his own premises and/or are exaggerated.

    Example: Jan interviews Dennis McKenna (Terence McKenna’s brother).  Dennis says Laura Huxley probably was at Esalen and may have been there when Terence was there.  Great.  Except in Jan’s conclusion he makes the leap to saying that Terence (absolutely) spent time with Laura at Esalen.

    Problem: The mere possibility that they may have been in the same vicinity at the same time is not the same thing as them (absolutely) spending time together.

    More:  in one sentence Jan names Teilhard as the prime suspect in the Piltdown Hoax, then in a subsequent sentence defines him as being absolutely guilty.  The two are not the same thing, it’s clearly an error to equate them, and especially curious when their conflation ends up supporting your overall argument (bias?).  “I cheated a little, but it helped my argument!”

    Another one, similar to the first point, has Jan claiming Terence and Francis Huxley ‘hung out’.  The source quote, from Dennis McKenna again, places Terence and Francis as indirect acquaintances (through circles of friends) and specifically not friends.  Yet Jan again makes a bolder claim than the facts permit by saying that they hung out (with the insinuation being that they planning Eugencism during this time). 

    If the reason McKenna was a Eugencist was because he hung out with Eugenicists, but the supporting facts don’t suggest anything so bold, then the argument begins to crumble from a weak foundation.

     

      
     
     
     
     
        

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