SpaceX Founder’s Colony On Mars Would Be For Vegetarians Only

A previously-unmentioned wrinkle in the most feasible plan for humanity to reach a second planet: meat eaters will be left behind to languish on Earth. Russia Today writes:

A US billionaire and co-founder of PayPal, Elon Musk, has made plans to build a settlement for 80,000 people on Mars when technology makes it possible for man to live there, for a price of $500,000.

Musk is a considered one of America’s most respected private space entrepreneurs and was in charge of creating SpaceX, a space transport company that produced the Falcon 9 rocket that delivers NASA cargo to the International Space Station. The billionaire’s estate and prominence in the space industry could make his plans [for a city on Mars] feasible, but the California-based engineer has not left behind his personal ideologies: Musk will only allow vegetarians to live in his settlement.

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  • JohnFrancisBittrich

    Is this necessarily about personal ideologies? Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that transporting seeds is much more cost and space effective than transporting livestock?

    • JohnFrancisBittrich

      Not to mention once the food is being produced vegetation would be way less of a drain on resources such as water…

      • JohnFrancisBittrich

        that said as someone who very rarely eats meat and would even go so far as to call myself vegetarian if not for the fact that I try to avoid ascribing to any absolutist labels, I’d gladly give up the occasional burger to be one of the first pioneers to leave the womb of mother earth and enter galactic reality…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

      Eggs are small and light weight. Chickens are easy to take care of, delicious and dual purpose. They don’t drink much water or eat much feed (they love to forage). Their manure is second to none as a fertilizer. To get a really good ecosystem going, chickens are a must have. Of course, one probably wouldn’t want to raise them for meat at first. Wait a few generations, then when their numbers multiply, slaughter and eat as necessary. Chickens are a must for any planetary colony. I’ve got 12 New Hampshire hybrids and I’d love to take them to Mars with me.

      • ditm

        “forage.” It’s on mars.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=537648678 Josh Weide

    JohnFrancisBittrich is on to something. Raising livestock for food is incredibly resource inefficient, and so it would be a poor use of limited resources on Mars. How could this article miss this point? Seems the notion that Elon Musk is “bringing his ideologies with him” is speculative (and ignorant) conjecture.

    • alizardx

      Several ways to produce animal protein efficiently, starting with insect. I think you’re caught in Elon Musk’s ideological trap, too.

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        not to mention the symbiotic benefits of those smaller organisms. I guess our glorious spacemen cannot get past the “eww” factor of the barbaric practices of entomophagy.

        • alizardx

          Or go further down the food chain – microorganisms. Or semi-closed cycle CAFO environments feeding livestock excrement to algae and algae to livestock using solar concentrators to light the algae.

  • “Big” Richard Johnson

    80,000 people, and they can’t figure out where to find meat? Does long pig really taste that bad?

    • http://twitter.com/360ConnectMag 360ConnectMag

      lol!

  • BuzzCoastin

    finally
    a place for all those Vegan Nazis

    • Kevin Leonard

      I particularly find the Nazi metaphor to be more applicable to meat eaters.
      (Hint: cows, pigs and chickens are the Jews in this metaphor)

      • “Big” Richard Johnson

        Hitler was a vegetarian, your point is invalid.

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          Everyone loves a good ol’ reductio ad hitlerum

          • Anarchy Pony

            Shouldn’t that be reductio ad godwinum?

          • “Big” Richard Johnson

            Reducto ad… rectum?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            I hate being associated with that shit. :(

          • Anarchy Pony

            Whaddya mean?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            Godwin’s Law.

          • Anarchy Pony

            Well, I can understand why Godwin’s law can be seen as limiting, as it is often valid making comparisons to nazism. If I am indeed sensing the nature of your discontent.

          • Potter

            Considering this was a reply to a reductio ad hitlerum, it seems appropriate.

        • Kevin Leonard

          Did not know that.
          He was not, however, the only Nazi.

          • Roger Mexico

            It’s not even true. His doctor ordered him to stop eating sausages because he developed ulcers in the later years of the war.

      • BuzzCoastin

        right on
        but then
        it also applys to Vegans
        who are slaughtering plants and eating their reproductive organs

        but I was thinking of the Nazi Vegans imposition of their beliefs
        upon those who enjoy dead meat and vegetative sex organs both
        PS: plants are sentient beings too

        • Kevin Leonard

          there is some consensus among metaphysical types
          that animals have a higher level of consciousness than plants.
          for what that’s worth.

          I once met a fruitarian
          (over 30 years… his body lacked the ability to digest other foods properly)
          he pointed out that fruit (obviously sex organs)
          came from a plant’s attempt to create life,
          while most other foods (including most vegetables)
          come from death.
          for what that’s worth.

          try being a vegan in Texas and see who’s beliefs get imposed on

          (I’m actually a pescetarian and reject any ones imposition on anyone’s dietary beliefs)

          • Calypso_1

            I thought you dined on human placentas?

          • Kevin Leonard

            also from life
            never actually tried it, though

          • BuzzCoastin

            it’s classic for brutes to miss the sublime
            plants are more highly evolved than humans
            & way beyond most human comprehension
            See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
            they return everything they used
            in better condition then when they got it
            they provide the very air we breath
            only humans have the hubris to think their superior
            especially Nazi Vegs
            oh &
            why be anything other a a Bush whacker in Texass

            FYI: beans, roots, shots & sprouts are sex organs or fetuses

          • Kevin Leonard

            this is amusing to me.
            but in a different way than most of your posts, which I generally relish
            for the record, it was not I who downvoted you.

          • BuzzCoastin

            obviously
            you’ve never a spent a lot of time with plants
            (except maybe eating them)

            sticks & stones may break my bones
            but down votes will never hurt me
            oh &

            I’m the one who didn’t up vote your post

          • Kevin Leonard

            on the contrary, Buzz

            but perhaps we have different impressions of the word “evolved” and “conscious”

            I relish your last statement

          • BuzzCoastin

            obviously we have different views about the words
            “evolved” and “conscious”
            but the facts are
            around 450 million years ago, the first land plants appeared (more highly evolved)
            Jesus uses plants as an example for human emulation (more conscious)

          • Kevin Leonard

            i think the difference is in respect to individuation.

            the tomatoes in my garden share the same (over)soul as my neighbors’ tomatoes
            my neighbor and i share precious little

            i voted you up

          • BuzzCoastin

            oh I see
            you still think of your tomatoes as separate from you
            contemplate that over a warm pipe and get back to me

          • Kevin Leonard

            bzz, ur no edumacatin’ meh

            as long as we need to eat tomatoes, we are living in duality

          • BuzzCoastin

            well its yer call dude
            live in the duality if you like
            it’s great for small errands
            but it’s a drag not being like the lilies of the field
            unless ya gotta

            (void where prohibited by law, YMMV)

          • Kevin Leonard

            i had an almost identical conversation with someone last night (minus the plants).
            i’m seeking inward for some synchronous meaning
            but mostly i’m left with the same question i had for the other gent
            if you are there, why are you here?

          • BuzzCoastin

            wherever you go
            there you are
            is there somewhere else to be
            if your everywhere at once?

          • Kevin Leonard

            i’m requesting a fly-by and a drop-off of some fresh Agapanthus at my doorstep

          • BuzzCoastin

            one of the last barriers
            is the barrio of preconception

          • Kevin Leonard

            trying hard in Verdana to not sound confrontational,
            which preconception do you think is preventing me from …
            (again, I brought balance by voting you up)

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            Mark Wahlberg figured it all out for me in The Happening.

        • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

          they may be sentient, but they are not “charismatic hyper-fauna” (a fancy phrase for “Cute”)

          • Calypso_1

            Let’s not forget our hypo-fauna.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            and the (hyper-hypo)-fauna

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            Those tough fuckers survive in a vaccuum!

          • BuzzCoastin

            some of my best friends are plants
            but I wouldn’t want humans to interbreed with them

            I here Monsanto is working on a homunculus plant

        • Monkey See Monkey Do

          Your statement looks like the pot calling the kettle black (Or..the human calling the monkey an animal.) but I digress, plants having sentience does not enter the equation for why most vegans are vegan.

          • BuzzCoastin

            yeah, exploiting animals & insects is bad
            but exploiting plants is good
            I’m not saying they’re not entitled to that view
            I’m saying it’s one-sided concept that ignores Nature patterns

        • Against The Current

          It’s interesting that you use the word slaughter in regard to plants; that term is most specifically used when describing the killing of animals or humans, especially for food.

          I would like a link to your sources that prove plants are sentient beings. As far as I know, plants have no central nervous system and cannot perceive pain or even have the proper pain receptors that would trigger a reaction to outside stimulus that may produce pain in a sentient being. As far as a conscious goes, I believe you are basing this information on intuition rather than fact. While we can’t prove that they do not have sentience, the information we have accrued so far through scientific research and observation lead us to the high probability that they do not.

          There is no getting around the fact that we have to destroy another living being in order to survive. The rationale behind many vegan/vegetarian diets is that it is the most humane diet, especially with today’s factory farming systems. I myself am a vegan, but do not see anything inherently wrong with eating meat. If you can capture or raise your own livestock, kill and cook it in order to survive, it is only the natural thing to do. I would never be able to do that except in extremely dire situations, therefore I do not consume animal products. What I do think is inherently wrong is being ignorant about where you food comes from and ignoring the process that is often torturous and ecologically/economically disastrous.

          • Kevin Leonard

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Fontes#Organic_Biofield_Sensor

            Probably the best you’ll get. Who is going to devote research dollars toward such an endeavor as proving plant sentience?

          • BuzzCoastin

            try reading more widely
            you could start with something simple like
            The Secret Life of Plants or The Secret Teachings of Plants
            then eventually work up to Fukuoka & Mollison
            FYI:
            Forestry, agronomy and horticulture make up three branches of agricultural science.
            The growth of vegetable crops is called olericulture,
            whereas pomology is devoted to the art of fruit cultivation.

          • Kevin Leonard

            As I suspected, you are underestimating me greatly.
            Both of those books are on my shelf. Buhner’s is one of my all-time favorites, from any genre, along with Eliot Cowan’s “Plant Spirit Medicine.”
            I guess you missed my posts where I revealed I am an acupuncturist and herbalist, yet I also recognize what is lost by working with plant corpses as opposed to…

            At various times I’ve planned to leave my position and go to the Blue Deer Center, then to go to Hawaii to learn all there is to know about Aquaculture, then move to somewhere where I can use that to support myself while growing a Biodynamic permaforest. I’ll send you a note when it all happens.

          • BuzzCoastin

            kewl
            now drop out & start living
            I’m sure the plants will be glad to lend a hand

          • Calypso_1

            Excellent books.

          • Kevin Leonard

            on my hard drive :)
            but yes, i am in dire need of some healthy dropping out

          • BuzzCoastin

            Edible Forest Gardens Volume 1
            has a lot of theoretical info about plant “consciousness”
            but does not refer to it that way
            but does show how plant systems display
            the tendencies of consciousness:
            interconnecting systems, symbiosis, defense & offensive strategies, etc.

            Volume 2 is more about practicum

          • Calypso_1

            Buzz, I think this crowd would really enjoy an article on Fukuoka from your perspective.

          • BuzzCoastin

            thanks for the invite,
            lemme check my schedule and get back to you

            about 12 years ago, I heard about a Japanese dude
            who simply threw seeds on the ground and produced food
            it sounded bizarre & unbelievable
            a few of years ago I encountered “no dig” farming
            which soon led to Fukuoka, followed by
            Sepp Holzer, Bill Mollison, Geoff Lawton, Jean Pain
            to name a few
            last grow season I grew all my salad greens (about 10 lbs a week)
            using no-dig methods, in a 10′ by 4′ plot
            in one of the whirled’s most crowded cities
            (opps, looks like I did the piece)

          • Against The Current

            I’m guessing, if anyone, it would be proponents of the meat industry who are industrious enough to use the plants-are-sentient-beings-too argument to defend the meat industry (besides botany-centrics, who most likely wouldn’t have the funds) but that would only happen if there was a great shift in culture and the majority of the population stopped making animal meat it’s main source of energy.

          • Kevin Leonard

            that would be interesting.

          • BuzzCoastin

            I’m guessing that Vegans are in denial about plants
            all life lives off death
            when pushed to it’s logical limit
            Vegans become like adherents of Jainism

          • Against The Current

            Is being an adherent of Jainism a bad thing?
            I agree, all life lives off death and there is no denying that plants are living beings. I guess Veganism can be compared to Jainism, for a Vegan diet seems to be the most non-violent option in our current society.

          • BuzzCoastin

            I’m not saying anything is bad
            or good
            I’m saying categories limit perspicacity

            when I lived in a forest community
            we would get visitors
            who would hike in without food
            but expect to eat their special diet:
            vegan, raw fooder, only organic, vegetarian, etc
            and after a few days
            they were all on the See Food Diet
            when they see food, they eat it

          • Calypso_1

            All Death lives off Life.

          • BuzzCoastin

            as you know
            they’re the yin & yang of existence
            and not separate things
            like love & marriage
            & a horse and carriage
            ya cain’t have one without the other

          • Calypso_1

            The Merit Comes from Mounting on the Wood

            __
            __
            - -
            - -
            __
            - -

          • BuzzCoastin

            … my technique, if I have one, is very far from original; nor is it complicated. I can express it in fifteen words, by quoting The Eternal Question And Immortal Answer. of burlesk, viz., ‘Would you hit a woman with a child?-No, I’d hit her with a brick.’ Like the burlesk comedian, I am abnormally fond of that precision which creates movement.
            ee cummings

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            Illusions abound

          • BuzzCoastin

            it has long fascinated me that Vegans know so little about plants
            heliotropism is a form of plant awareness
            plants have environment awareness (wind, humidity, temperature etc)
            most plants have defensive systems (chemical warfare)
            some plants have stopped reproducing without human intervention
            you could find more out by actually growing a plant or two

            > (I) do not see anything inherently wrong with eating meat.
            If you can capture or raise your own livestock

            same goes for fruit & vegetables
            but I’m not as dogmatic
            since 98% of humans don’t know how to grow food

          • Against The Current

            In fact, I am sowing my first carrot seeds this weekend (I live in the Southwestern region of North America) and have a deep appreciation for plants, though I do not attest to knowing nearly enough about them. I do, however, plan on growing most of my own food and acquiring the rest from local CSA’s, as well as developing a career in herbal remedies.

            Perhaps I misunderstood you. I have no doubts that plants do posses exquisitely complicated feedback systems consisting of hormonal, chemical, and electrical responses. I don’t think that implies sentience though- which, from my perspective, would require certain nervous systems such as our central nervous and limbic systems.

          • BuzzCoastin

            great! plants love care givers
            since you’ve just started, you should check out people like
            Fukuoka, Holzer, Mollison & the others that extended their work

            > I don’t think that implies sentience though- which, from my perspective, would require certain nervous systems such as our central nervous and limbic systems.

            what a ridiculous assumption
            similar to a plant’s dismissal of you
            because you didn’t have a photosynthesis system

            I’ll bet you think that water isn’t conscious either
            dude
            it’s consciousness that creates all life and is all life

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            One of my favourite quotes of all time from a pinnacle figure in physics (the supposed ‘dead’ science!):
            “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
            - Max Planck

          • BuzzCoastin

            Heisenberg was shocked to the core
            as were most quantum mechanics of his time
            when he discovered that Sid Gautama (aka: Da Buddha)
            beat him to the uncertainty principle by 2500 years

            it’s funny that something as undefinable as consciousness
            is regarded as a physical property
            by modern literate humans

          • Against The Current

            I am very interested in looking into their work, I will put those names on my list for my next library visit. Thank you

            I don’t think that assumption is so ridiculous; consciousness is such an ambiguous term. In terms of the scientific theory of consciousness, it’s a completely logical assumption. In spiritual and intuitive terms, your concept of consciousness is accepted by many, and I am in no way dismissing your perception of consciousness. I’ve never thought of water as being conscious or not, but from my experience and knowledge I would say at this point I am not convinced it is- though I’m open to evidence that proves otherwise.

          • BuzzCoastin

            Google their names for a faster library visit
            there are really good videos out there and access to the written works too

            > it’s a completely logical assumption
            it’s a completely human assumption

            logic & reason are tools, not infallible guides
            there’s been lots of work done about water consciousness
            mostly Japanese research
            but I would include the work Viktor Schauberger in that
            but he never explicitly deals with water consciousness
            just water’s behaviors

          • Against The Current

            I’ve never considered logic and reason as infallible; as far as I’m concerned they are an effort by humans to comprehend what is ultimately incomprehensible; but they are very useful tools at times. I will never close myself off to potentialities that are beyond scientific explanation, but I will be the first to admit that I haven’t searched much beyond it. I have started reading a book by Fritjof Capra about the similarities between physics and eastern spirituality, and although it has nothing much to do with plants, I did take in the notion that there are aspects of life that are beyond expression, and the plant and water consciousness you speak of seems to run a long those lines. I may very well retract any disagreement I had with you before about plant sentience upon further study, but it does not change my view that vegansim is still a more humane diet when compared to the modern day factory farming of animals.

          • BuzzCoastin

            Capra is a great place to start
            you might also try Fyneman for a purely scientific approach
            Six Easy Pieces & Six Not So Easy Pieces
            he makes some profound observations, while denying their profundity

            > it does not change my view that vegansim is still a more humane diet
            I’m not trying to change you
            I’m trying to broaden your perspective by the elimination of concepts

          • Against The Current

            I’ve heard about Fyneman in passing, I will definitely have to look at some of his work. I just read a little about Fukuoka and his process of natural farming, I was surprised (I wish I wasn’t) that the concept was developed and lived out by someone in modern times. I’ve often contemplated why there is so much human labor involved in farming and cultivation when plants obviously survive on their own, but always supposed that due to the large population and people’s desire to profit off of plants controlling them is the only viable option. Industrialization in most of it’s forms have never made much sense to me.

          • BuzzCoastin

            agriculture is industrial framing for a profit
            horticulture is land stewardship for bountiful living

            modern agriculture is not sustainable and
            is going to die an ugly death
            without alternatives to oil

            you might start with one of Feynman’s early biographies
            Surely Your Joking Mr. Feynman

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            I had never heard of Masanobu Fukuoka before. Thanks for that interesting cite. I translate Japanese as a side job, and I’m gonna look into translating some of his writings. His picture reminds me of Morihei Ueshiba.

          • BuzzCoastin

            Fukuoka predates Holzer & the OZ Premaculture gang
            since he was doing this in the 60′s,
            most of his stuff has been translated already

            I started out Biodynamic
            but after Fukuoka I never double-dug again
            I’m inherently lazy

          • mannyfurious

            Very true. Life feeds off life, any which way you cut it. This is the first truth of life. I’m not a huge meat eater (well, red meat. I do love me some fish and fowl), but I do believe that turning away from meat completely is the first step towards turning away from life in general. Life isn’t a “peaceful” process in the traditional sense of the word. Sacrifices of one sort of another must be made. Something like Jainism is not life at all, but a waiting-for-death.

          • BuzzCoastin

            here’s an interesting experiment involving plant consciousness
            start at 23:00 for about 2 minutes
            http://youtu.be/7_X2Z9v8-6Q

          • Fionn Earwicker

            This time she came upon a large flower-bed, with a border of daisies, and a willow-tree growing in the middle.

            ‘O Tiger-lily,’ said Alice, addressing herself to one that was waving gracefully about in the wind,
            ‘I WISH you could talk!’

            ‘We CAN talk,’ said the Tiger-lily: ‘when there’s anybody worth talking to.’

  • alizardx

    80,000 people willing to pay 500K to live as Martian vegans in an extremely high-risk environment over transit time between Mars – Earth issue (I’ve heard he’s planning to use rockets)

    Is Musk going on this one-way trip himself?

  • Kevin Leonard

    If you are going on a one way trip to Mars, you are going to be giving up a lot more than just meat.

    • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

      Like: no more kitten videos.

      • Anarchy Pony

        No, but you just might have to go back to the days of dial up internet speeds though.

        • alizardx

          only for Mars >< Earth Internet access, Starting from scratch, planetary wireless Internet infrastructure not that hard,

          • Anarchy Pony

            yeah sure, but how many cat videos will they have on mars?

          • alizardx

            If they didn’t find a way to take a google-sized sample of the Internet and a large chunk of the “deep Web” along, the mission planning is so piss-poor that only Elon Musk himself should be going.

          • Anarchy Pony

            Jokes, how the fuck do they work?

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            similarly to magnets

          • Calypso_1

            really!? and i’ve been fancying lemmings were somehow involved.

          • Anarchy Pony

            Mutha fuckin’ magic.

          • alizardx

            Used your comment to make the point I wanted to make. I’ll admit that lately that my sense of humor is sort of burned out.

    • alizardx

      One can do a lot with 3D printing… but microchips are not among those things. Annoying if the problem is one’s iPad… maybe fatal if one can’t fix a computer running life support.

  • VaudeVillain

    I too wonder if the rule is so much that you must be a vegetarian by choice as it is that once there, you will be a vegetarian by default.

  • Tchoutoye

    Veggie pie in the sky.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

      Ideology doesn’t explain anything, it only correlates; and, conveniently so. Convenient because it usually masks the material reasons behind horrible things that people do to each other. The ideology is colonial imperialism, but it slowly morphed into territorial expansionism (manifest destiny) and now to the contemporary economic growth. It’s a collective mental illness, really. But the material cause behind it is more banal than the bulk of scholars are willing to entertain. For me it’s usury. Erecting a debt-based economic edifice attached to which is the perpetual spurring function of interest yields these results. Bigger and bigger and bigger, with no view of the reality of limitations. It’s a cancerous cognitive malfunction.

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        human life and culture expands ad infinitum, only when there is not enough space for expansion can the slower(in the sense of expansion rate), more pensive groups take a foothold over the faster, unthinking ones.

        Merely because it is a sickness, a cancer, does not mean it isn’t natural.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

          Well, everything is natural, I s’pose. I was listening to Rogan’s podcast the other day and he said that he likened OWS to an immune system response, where the T-cells swarm around the infection site to contain the spread of the infection. It’s an interesting analogy, but emergent phenomena typically have different properties than the levels they emerged from, so the species doesn’t react to infectious behaviour the same as an individual organism. If it did, there would be fucking awesome macrophages eating bankers and traders as they exited the NYSE. Now that would be some quality protesting.

          But anyways, growth in natural systems occurs in the earlier stages of its development; but, a more stable dynamic equilibrium state is achieved after the law of diminishing returns kicks in. The organism then enters the next stage of maturity. We’re probably nearing the end of puberty as a species now, I guess.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Yep. But when emergent phenomena become the new normal, it takes another emergent phenomena on top of it to really react. I guess its turtles all the way… up?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            damn right… or turtles all the way forward, as we’re talking temporally rather than spacially.

          • Calypso_1

            Emergent phenomena on ‘top’ need not be perceived as a hierarchical
            evolutionary attribute. Rather stemming from a perturbation, self-sheathing invagination, double-layer such that one plane faces the other. Two mirrors reflecting | | One plane extricating from the other; a play upon the surface or submerging of the depths?…better yet to visualize extraterritoriality and flow upon the 3-sphere – a flux of state superpositions, and envelopes of involution flowing like rivulets of harmonic convergence.
            There need be no supplemental dimension from which it emanates or requires enunciation.
            All forms within this dynamic are potentially emergent & immanent, irreducible and singular. Graduated resemblance and relation exists only in accordance with local topological distortion of information and symmetries of boundary states.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

            Of course! Well said back to you! Self-similarity and self-referentiality are two sides of the same coin, because there is only one damned coin!

          • Calypso_1

            Yes, and the mysteries of denomination begin to unravel when you look through the spin.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            Yep, i get you (..mostly) Adam Goodwin fixed it by looking forward rather than above. emergent phenomena still have reference points in time if you want to consider it a dimension, if only in birth, death, and dissolution etc.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

    If you have enough space to plant a garden/edible forest, you’ll have enough space to let chickens forage. (Besides, if you don’t have enough space to let chickens forage, then I doubt the colony will be that pleasant.) Chicken droppings will fertilize the soil (substrate). Chickens, with their keen vision and low stature, can spot food that you and I would have great difficulty finding. Chickens are hardy, reliable and can be quite charming. I’m not sure why I got so many down votes for mentioning them… maybe it was the ‘delicious’ part. Who’s anti-chicken here? My hens are free-range and organic fed, motherfucker!

    • Calypso_1

      I for one would love to see a cockfight in low gravity.

      • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

        there’s a sex joke somewhere in there

        • Calypso_1

          Despite my love of layered language in this instance only roosters were involved.

        • Calypso_1

          Despite my love of layered language in this instance only roosters were involved.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Hehe i wasn’t calling anyone out in particular at that point it had become a resonating chamber of ad-hitlerumism’sm “No You’re like Hitler! No, YOU’RE like Hitler!!!…”

    • “Big” Richard Johnson

      I try my best to be inappropriate.

  • WoodGas1

    If I were given opportunity to act as tin god for a space community, I would ban religious thinking, including knee jerk veganism.

  • Bender

    Yeah, well
    I’m gonna build my own Mars colony, with Blackjack and hookers.

    In fact, forget the Mars colony and blackjack.

  • chugs1984

    um re the people talking about chickens. Musk isn’t saying that they’ll leave animals behind. Just that you won’t be able to eat them.

  • Otis

    Well then by god i will eat people……

  • http://www.facebook.com/RoboIII Robert Bolender

    It will never be self sustaining then. Part of earth’s ecosystem is the vast amount of interaction between organisms.