Police Suspected Of Starting Fire That Killed Chris Dorner

It’s uncertain if the charred remains of a human body found inside the razed mountain cabin are those of Christopher Dorner, but it looks highly likely. Now the questions is whether or not the San Bernardino Police and/or the LAPD set the fire on purpose, which also looks likely. From the Guardian:

It is not yet clear how the fire at the cabin was started, but there is speculation that the police started it deliberately.

The audio track of this video purports to be the conversation on police scanners as they surrounded the cabin where Dorner was hiding. The Guardian cannot confirm that the audio track is a genuine recording of the police scanner.

At around the 1min mark, a male voice says:

All right, Steve, we’re gonna go, er, we’re gonna go forward with the plan, with, er, with the burn. We want it, er, like we talked about.

He then adds shortly afterwards:

Seven burners deployed and we have a fire.

A female voice responds:

Copy. Seven burners deployed and we have a fire.

At around 2min 20sec, a male voice says:

Guys, be ready on the No 4 side. We have fire in the front. He might come out the back.

At around 2min 50sec, a male voice requests a fire engine.

There is then a report of a shot fired from within the residence, followed by a sharp noise of some kind.

This video, which purports to be a recording of KCAL TV coverage of the raid on the cabin, seems to include the sound of police shouting: “We’re going to burn him out,” and “Burn this motherfucker!”

[continues at the Guardian]

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  • lazy_friend

    No doubt it was the police. A couple of tracer rounds can star a fire, they would not even need to get close.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

    We need more dissent and crossing of boundaries to wake us up. Too bad it has to be so damned violent on both sides.

    • emperorreagan

      The scariest part is how indiscriminate the reaction was. The cops really didn’t care who or what they were shooting.

      • LucidDreamR

        A particularly scary thought when thinking about the ever-increasing police state, or if martial law were ever declared…

  • emperorreagan

    Of course the police started the fire. They were ordering news helicopters out of the area so there wouldn’t be evidence.

    They were going to get the kill, whether it was gunning him down when he tried to flee the fire or driving him to kill himself.

  • Frank_Sturgis

    If the police could release audio of a good-faith attempt to negotiate and get him to surrender – if they had stayed under cover and given him an opportunity to do so – they’d look like heroes and true law enforcement. Instead they resort to arson in an attempt to execute the guy by any means available.

  • IokSotot

    I hope you will all join me in a quiet moment/prayer for the soul of Chris Dorner, a man who led a principled and honorable life almost, or perhaps right up, to the end of his life.

    • TennesseeCyberian

      His love of pop stars and politicians is particularly impressive. No better way to “fight the power” than to suck up to the rich and famous through your Facebook page.

      • IokSotot

        http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/lapd-killer-found-8000-and-returned-it-to-an-oklahoma-church

        The article linked to above says to me that Dorner was a pretty decent guy at heart and if he went bezerk and killed some people it must have been in some extraordinary circumstances that deserve some profoundly intense examination before we condemn him to infamy and rejection.

        • http://twitter.com/RayButlers Ray Butlers

          please don’t make excuses for murder

        • TennesseeCyberian

          I don’t want to leave the impression that I think Dorner was some sort of demon. His generally lucid, but overly pop culture-oriented manifesto shows his humanity.

          But is it not possible that Richard Ramirez or Charles Whitman helped old ladies across the street at one time or another? That wouldn’t change a thing about their crimes.

          • IokSotot

            Lets wait and see what comes out of this. I have a feeling its going to be a deep rabbit hole indeed.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            You may be right about that, and I am open to whatever may come out of this case. I don’t mean to come off as being totally dismissive here.

            Just as likely, though, the police will suffer little or no consequence for firing on unrelated civilians and the whole affair will be disappearing down said rabbit hole.

        • TennesseeCyberian

          As for your proposed intense examination of the circumstances which drove Dorner to murder, I agree with you completely.

  • WTFMFWOMG

    The police are within their “legal rights” to kill any individual who has already killed police officers and has stated he will kill more. Although burning the guy out is questionable, here is an example of police officers spotting an armed suspect, an already known killer, and firing when they have a clear shot:

    ” Jones said there was no “shoot-to-kill order.” But because Bassler was believed to have killed two people and had shot at police, Jones said, the officers were within legal rights to fire on him because they faced a danger of “great bodily injury or death.”

    ” On Saturday morning, after a fruitless Friday in the forest and scant hours of sleep, a three-member Sacramento team spotted Bassler. He was 40 to 60 yards away, uphill on a logging road. Jones said the officers had a “clear line of sight.” They fired.

    ” Bassler was struck in the torso. He tried to raise his gun and the officers “re-engaged him,” Jones said. In total, two of the three officers shot Bassler seven times. The long-sought gunman was dead. ”
    http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/05/v-mobile/3960735_how-sacramento-swat-officers-killed.html

    By his actions, Dorner has, perhaps, discredited those who would suggest there is a culture of racism within LAPD. I imagine this “culture” will continue, emboldend by his failure.

  • robertpinkerton

    A question for better men than I to contemplate: Lt Christopher Dorner USN as American Blacks’ Breivik? His death will remain questionable forever.

  • http://twitter.com/TedHeistman Ted Heistman

    I just read his manifesto. He strikes me as a kid on a “gifted” program. Bright, Idealistic, kind of emotional. Truly a Shame. I think He’s a person with some heroic and noble qualities. Certain rare individuals like that, through a certain course of events end up violently sacrificing themselves to the state in protest.

    Idealistic people that become villains, is kind of how it plays out. I mean if you put a manifesto out saying you are going to shoot Police officers, obviously this is what will happen. But a less idealistic person wouldn’t engage in this kind of thing. It has to be a person that is willing to sacrifice themselves to what they see as a higher cause.

    • TennesseeCyberian

      The same could be said of Anders Breivik, the Norwegian shooter. Except that Breivik’s manifesto is over 1,000 pages long, his views are basically right wing (except for his odd enthusiasm for homosexuals’ rights), and he gunned down 70-some-odd children. But he was also “bright, gifted, kind of emotional,” and to those whose ideologies resonate with his, he has “heroic and noble qualities.”
      I don’t see it that way.

      Cops aren’t innocent. No one is completely innocent. But Dorner just started gunning those guys (and that one lady) down at random. He had no reason to target them other than a badge. They may well have been good cops.

      Dorner was little different from any other mass-shooter: thoughtless, vicious, self-centered, and of tremendous value to the media for ratings.

      • IokSotot

        Brevik targeted school children. Dorner targeted people he said were (basically) racist thugs who were terrorizing millions of people and acting as an army of occupation in the style of the atrocity saturated Iraq war. How the fk do you equate these two?

        • http://twitter.com/TedHeistman Ted Heistman

          Good question.

        • http://twitter.com/RayButlers Ray Butlers

          remember that we have no evidence that the people killed by Dorner deserved to die.

        • TennesseeCyberian

          I did not equate the two, I drew parallels. Two very different ways of comparing. I even highlight a few distinctions very clearly in my post.

          My intention was to point out how one can justify atrocity if the perpetrator’s ideology is resonant with one’s own. For instance, how do you feel about Randy Weaver, the alleged white supremacist who attacked the police? Was he a freedom fighter too?

          Dorner didn’t shoot the particular people he believed had commited atrocities. He simply targeted cops, whose guilt or innocence in matters of racial bias or abuse of power is simply a matter of projection.

          If you have any evidence that his actual targets were either racists or corrupt policemen, I would be happy to look it over.

          • InfvoCuernos

            Randy Weaver didn’t attack police:he defended against them trying to take him in after the ATF’s entrapment didn’t work. Also, the police ended that particular siege by shooting Randy Weaver’s wife dead while she held a baby in her arms. I think there is a confusion here between revenge and defense. In both Randy Weaver’s and Chris Dorner’s cases, they were obliged to return fire in order to defend themselves. Its hard for a lot of Americans to wrap their brains around, but cops DO NOT have the right to shoot first and ask questions later. An allegation should not be a death warrant.

          • echar

            They also Killed Weaver’s dog.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Probably the closest thing to an “innocent” victim in this whole conversation.

          • echar

            I really can’t say. I did read From Freedom to Slavery by Gerry Spence. If memory is correct, the authorities screwed up big time.

          • TennesseeCyberian

            I’m aware of the details of the Weaver case. I am not drawing comparisons with the particulars. Sorry if I was unclear.

            What I am speaking to is the seething, conformist mass of “fight the power” types who are rallying around Dorner because he is a “heroic” cop-killer. Many see him as vindicating their own racial grievances, even though they may not live in LA, or even America.

            Most of Dorner’s cheerleaders would not have been cheering on Randy Weaver two decades ago, even though he, too, was down to “fight the power” for his cracker brethren. Most of Dorner’s fanboys seem to be having a kneejerk, instinctive response to police blood and Dorner’s very Django-like persona. That is silly, and that is what I was speaking to.

            “cops DO NOT have the right to shoot first and ask questions later. An allegation should not be a death warrant.”

            I couldn’t agree more.

          • https://sites.google.com/site/themattprather Matt Prather

            Well said.

          • IokSotot

            Randy Weaver didn’t attack the police. They attacked/ambushed/attempted to arrest him in his own home, shooting his kid and killing his wife and dog along the way. To cut a long story short, there simply are no parallels between the Weaver and Dorner cases besides the fact they both have a few dead cops in them.

            Dorner had a kill list of fifty+ LAPD cops on it. I don’t think he was planning to kill the entire LAPD.

            I hear what you’re saying about keeping an open mind and guarding against one’s own prejudices. I don’t live in LA, I’m not even American, but the verdict is in on the LAPD. The world knows them first and foremost as a paramilitary thug force staffed with racist murderers and bully boys with a ton of blood on their hands. When it comes to deciding who deserves to die what sane person would give them the same benefit of doubt as Norwegian under 16 Labour Party Youth Clubbers?

          • IokSotot

            Randy Weaver didn’t attack the police. They attacked/ambushed/attempted to arrest him in his own home, shooting his kid and killing his wife and dog along the way. To cut a long story short, there simply are no parallels between the Weaver and Dorner cases besides the fact they both have a few dead cops in them.

            Dorner had a kill list of fifty+ LAPD cops on it. I don’t think he was planning to kill the entire LAPD.

            I hear what you’re saying about keeping an open mind and guarding against one’s own prejudices. I don’t live in LA, I’m not even American, but the verdict is in on the LAPD. The world knows them first and foremost as a paramilitary thug force staffed with racist murderers and bully boys with a ton of blood on their hands. When it comes to deciding who deserves to die what sane person would give them the same benefit of doubt as Norwegian under 16 Labour Party Youth Clubbers?

          • TennesseeCyberian

            Again, that wasn’t my intention so much as to point out that both Breivik and Dorner chose victims who represented an idea to them, to further their own ideologies, not victims who had perpetrated any offence against them directly (except, perhaps, poor legal representation in the case of Quan.) In Breivik’s case it was the children of “multiculturalists” who would grow up to sell out the native Norwegians. In Dorner’s case it was, as you say, a vicious police force drunk on power.

            Thing is, Breivik’s kids and Dorner’s cops (and his lawyer/captain’s daughter) were “innocent” victims in that they were chosen as symbols of the shooters’ rage. Sacrificial lambs.

            When you call the LAPD a “paramilitary thug force staffed with racist murderers and bully boys” you are painting a stereotype with broad strokes. It may be well deserved and mostly true. Their mistaken attacks on civilians are clear evidence for your accusatons. But it is still a stereotype–a symbol–and the families of those cops and the one cop’s daughter feel pain no less than those of the Norwegian Labor Party kids.

            There is difference in both quality and scale, but there are important parallels, and I stand behind that.

            The bloodlust surrounding the Dorner case–on both sides–is natural, even understandable, but like many pleasures in life, it is also barbaric and stupid.

  • Andrew

    This dovetails with what I was told about police rejecting Dorner’s mother’s plea that they guarantee his safety if he surrendered, and with the lift of the Route 38 checkpoint (indicating they had their man) prior to the fire starting. His accusations may have been correct, and the police wanted to avoid a trial.

  • Bango

    LOL the text of this summary doesn’t match the text of the Guardian article on which it’s based. From said article:

    The
    term “burner” had led to speculation that the fire had been started
    deliberately, but burner is thought to be police slang for tear gas, and
    may refer to “BurnSafe” containers for CS gas canisters, made by the
    Covina-Thomas Company in Covina, California. On its website the company
    lists among its recent customers the LAPD, although not the San Bernardo
    County sheriff’s office, which led the raid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.vickers.3154 Chris Vickers

    The Cops who burned the house down should be tried for Murder in the 1st Degree

    • IokSotot

      Please lets not tarnish every cop with this crime. The ones that did this fit the hippy designation of “pig”. Cops who protect and serve the community desreve support and praise. Pigs deserve bullets or a good necklacing. .

      • BuzzCoastin

        maybe the good Pigs could wear a sign
        something like:
        “I’m not one of those Pigs
        I’m a good cop ready to protect & serve you up”
        or something like that

        • IokSotot

          Buzz, dude. You bring up a complicated problem with complicated answers. I don’t have any of those answers for you this evening.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

        How about the cops that enforce immoral laws like kicking people out of their homes when the bank seizes them? Or how about the cops that give OWS ‘hippies’ the smack down? They don’t have to be ‘on the take’ to do shitty things to people. Maybe there’s a problem with the whole idea that people with coloured clothes, special metal pins on their chests and guns on their hips can do to you whatever they think is necessary to kidnap you and let their boss make you pay money or lock you in a cage….

        • Barnes

          I like the leap in logic from “some cops are terrible” to “the whole idea of cops is stupid.”

          So… you’ve never had to call the cops for anything? Car accident, assault, robbery, nothing? You’re a lucky person.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

    cops are reactionary. they act, largely, after the fact. this solves nothing. it doesn’t stop crime. it doesn’t stop accidents. it does nothing but complicate human affairs. locking people in cages does nothing. the deed is already done, the harm has already been inflicted. nothing can be restored. the only way to prevent bad things from happening is to get everyone to chip in, but as long as you have cops–the ‘special’ people who have sole purview to act in times of emergency–no one else will act. so it’s not that we have cops because no one acts to help others, it’s _because_ we have cops that no one acts to help others. get that straight and you’ll understand the world a lot better, bub.

    • I_of_Horus

      Locking people up, especially petty criminals, *does* help society as less bikes/car stereos/whatever get stolen while they are incarcerated.
      “it’s not that we have cops because no one acts to help others, it’s _because_ we have cops that no one acts to help others”… Hmm… do you have some examples? People help eachother out in emergencies all the time. Look at every natural disaster around the world, neighbours are helping eachother, communities pull together. When your neighbours house has collapsed, what are you going to do? Call the fire-brigade/cops or try and look for survivors yourself?

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