JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth?

By Abby Martin on March 16, 2013 in News 53

On this episode of Breaking the Set, Abby Martin talks to Russ Baker, managing editor of WhoWhatWhy.com, about President Obama withholding more than 50 thousand pages of JFK assassination-related documents and outlines the unanswered questions about the case.

Assassination, CIA, Conspiracy, Death, JFK, Lee Harvey Oswald, truth

If Corporations Dodge Taxes, Why Shouldn’t You?

David Byrne’s Multiple-Personality Interview Of Himself

Ittabena

It’s too late for the who, unfortunately all we can know now is the why. And there were so many whys.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin

Always fascinates me how people focus on the shooting of one particular man over the countless other people who’ve died since then.
- Manhattan Project Playboy
  
  You are fascinated at the wrong things.
  Countless other people were not the president of the u.s. who was assassinated under a enormous cloud of secrecy and mystery.
  - mannyfurious
    
    I get Adam’s point, that JFK wasn’t in and of himself more or less valuable than any other murder victim. I would agree with that. But, yeah, most other people’s murders don’t say a whole lot about what kind of world we’re living in. The JFK assassination is important precisely because of what it implies.
    - sgtdoom
      
      ..that JFK wasn’t in and of himself more or less valuable than any other murder victim.
      
      Well, if you ever read over his final budget and how it would benefit the workers of America, to the detriment of the super-richest, how he was taxing the offshore wealth of America’s super-rich, and the ending of their oil depletion allowance.
      
      Read Donald Gibson’s Battling Wall Street: the Kennedy presidency for a more expansive purview of the Kennedy administration.
      
      Also, Richard Parker of Harvard, while on the book tour for his stupendous biography on the economist (and member of the Kennedy administration), John Kenneth Galbraith, mentioned those famous State Department memos which had recently been declassified during late in Clinton’s administration (later reclassivied by George Weasel Bush) which Kennedy sent out detailing the complete withdrawal of US advisors in Vietnam (then numbering around 16,800, the original bunch sent there during the Eisenhower administration) before the next presidential election.
      Johnson would later do the opposite, building up troop levels to at least 500,000 and greatly expanding the war. (And LBJ would be reponsible for Operation Brother Sam, ending the financial transaction tax on speculation, etc.)
      - Ittabena
        
        Do not forget the Executive Order that is still in effect, but never implemented, which abolished the Federal Reserve. I always thought that perhaps Ron Paul’s plan, if elected, was to implement this E.O.
        
        Also, and I am sketchy on the details on this one, at one point JFK was asked to send troops to the Middle East by and for Britain. He refused.
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin
    
    I said what I said because I have different assumptions from you. Of this, I am certain. Where you may believe in the fairytale that back in the good old days of the Republic things were more fair than they are now, Presidents had a modicum of integrity, public officials acted on your behalf and peace was an achievable goal if the right politician was in office. I, however, feel otherwise. To me, democratic rule is a contradiction in terms, representative government is the worst lie we could allow ourselves to believe, and the despotism that is now beseiging us was written into the script of our social logic the moment we allowed others to act on our behalf. To squander such intellectual resources on uncovering the ‘truth’ behind the killing of a spokesman for this mass killing machine is exactly the distraction required to perpetuate its existence. It’s akin to the outrage of a house slave at the slaying of his ‘good’ master by an outsider who then assumes control of the plantation. I prefer to take my chances absconding, thanks.
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin
    
    I said what I said because I have different assumptions from you. Of this, I am certain. Where you may believe in the fairytale that back in the good old days of the Republic things were more fair than they are now, Presidents had a modicum of integrity, public officials acted on your behalf and peace was an achievable goal if the right politician was in office. I, however, feel otherwise. To me, democratic rule is a contradiction in terms, representative government is the worst lie we could allow ourselves to believe, and the despotism that is now beseiging us was written into the script of our social logic the moment we allowed others to act on our behalf. To squander such intellectual resources on uncovering the ‘truth’ behind the killing of a spokesman for this mass killing machine is exactly the distraction required to perpetuate its existence. It’s akin to the outrage of a house slave at the slaying of his ‘good’ master by an outsider who then assumes control of the plantation. I prefer to take my chances absconding, thanks.
    - Ittabena
      
      I see your point and it is valid, however that does not change the fact that after Joe Sr. died there was a change that came over Jack, and I believe that was due to Bobby’s influence. Remember these guys were Catholics and though the Catholic Church preaches do as we say and not as we do, there is a strong morality taught. I believe Bobby took this to heart and then took it to Jack.
      
      I really feel that Jack was trying to be a stand up, do the right thing type of guy and was trying to fix the broken Republic. To assign guilt for the Republic’s being broken to him seems a little short sighted and does not give him the credit he is due. If he had not tried to fix it, he would not have been killed.
    - Ittabena
      
      I see your point and it is valid, however that does not change the fact that after Joe Sr. died there was a change that came over Jack, and I believe that was due to Bobby’s influence. Remember these guys were Catholics and though the Catholic Church preaches do as we say and not as we do, there is a strong morality taught. I believe Bobby took this to heart and then took it to Jack.
      
      I really feel that Jack was trying to be a stand up, do the right thing type of guy and was trying to fix the broken Republic. To assign guilt for the Republic’s being broken to him seems a little short sighted and does not give him the credit he is due. If he had not tried to fix it, he would not have been killed.
- sgtdoom
  
  You mean like Dorothy Kilgallen, who said she had the biggest scoop of the century, after she interviewed Jack Ruby in his Texas jail cell (and she was the last journalist to interview him), then immediately the newsies claimed she committed suicide before writing her story, even though the autopsy report actually mentioned traces of poison in her martini glass she drank every night prior to sleep?
  
  Or perhaps Larry Stern, intrepid investigative journalist then with the Washington Post, who died suddenly while out jogging at Martha’s Vineyard, shortly after stating he had figured out the culprits behind the assassination and was planning on writing that story?
  
  Or the fact that the easiest crime to solve is the one you plan yourself, and the fastest crimes solved by the feebs of the FBI were the JFK assassination? The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. assassination? And, of course, 9/11?
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin
    
    Please see above reply to Manhattan Project Playboy, and assume it is also directed at you. Thanks.
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=742104313 Adam Goodwin
    
    Please see above reply to Manhattan Project Playboy, and assume it is also directed at you. Thanks.
echar

This is where my brain goes to on this. I am sure it’s nothing new.

The Depression resulted in the New Deal and in policies that promoted economic regulation, governmental financial manipulation ,and the extensive application of fiscal policy. In addition, both the Depression and World War II led to the creation of organizations like the World Bank, the IMF, and the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) . The 1960s was a pivotal decade in this period and in the shift from neoclassic to Keynesian economics . It happened under the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, and perhaps the most important single influence was one man, Robert McNamara.

Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins Pg. 78

I see now that Robert McNamara’s greatest and most sinister contribution to history was to jockey the World Bank into becoming an agent of global empire on a scale never before witnessed . He also set a precedent. His ability to bridge the gaps between the primary components of the corporatocracy would be fine-tuned by his successors. For instance, George Shultz was secretary of the treasury and chairman of the Council on Economic Policy under Nixon , served as Bechtel president, and then became secretary of state under Reagan. Caspar Weinberger was a Bechtel vice president and general council, and later the secretary of defense under Reagan. Richard Helms was Johnson’s CIA director and then became ambassador to Iran under Nixon. Richard Cheney served as secretary of defense under George H . W. Bush, as Halliburton president, and as U .S. vice president to George W. Bush. Even a president of the United States , George H. W. Bush, began as founder of Zapata Petroleum Corp , served as U.S. ambassador to the U.N. under presidents Nixon and Ford, and was Ford’s CIA director .

Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins Pg. 79
- Ittabena
  
  Mr. Perkins forgot Mr. Casey, and Mr. McCloy…
  - echar
    
    I meant it mostly to suggest the group of people, or specifically the corporatocracy. Who is Mr. Casey?
    - Eric_D_Read
      
      William Casey. CIA director under Reagan. He was also a major engineer of the DOD’s program of “perception management.”
    - Eric_D_Read
      
      William Casey. CIA director under Reagan. He was also a major engineer of the DOD’s program of “perception management.”
      - echar
        
        Thank you
      - sgtdoom
        
        And the very first action Casey took upon being appointed by Reagan to head the CIA, was to classify earth resource data from America’s spy satellites, once open to public distribution, but with Casey only Casey’s Wall Street cronies were allowed access.
      - sgtdoom
        
        And the very first action Casey took upon being appointed by Reagan to head the CIA, was to classify earth resource data from America’s spy satellites, once open to public distribution, but with Casey only Casey’s Wall Street cronies were allowed access.
    - sgtdoom
      
      Interesting you mentioned McCloy who, as head of the World Bank, refused loans to Guatemala due to their high minimum wage for farm workers, and their program on land distribution. McCloy, along with Allen Dulles (whose brother married into the Rockefeller/Morgan families) steered the Warren Commission Report to the crapola pile.
      
      Best book out recently which covers the emphasis placed on the usage of the term “conspiracy theory” (CIA Document 1035-960, disseminated in 1964) is Lance deHaven-Smith’s Conspiracy Theory in America, truly a must-read!
      
      Also other must-reads for any analytical minds:
      
      Brothers: Hidden History of the Kennedy Years, by David Talbot
      
      JFK and the Unspeakable, by James Douglass
      
      The Kennedy Assassination Coverup, by Donald Gibson
      
      (Along with Gibson’s epochal, Battling Wall Street: the Kennedy presidency)
      
      A Terrible Mistake, by H.P. Albarelli
      
      The Echo From Dealey Plaza, by Abraham Bolden
      
      Family of Secrets, by Russ Baker
      
      [Not to slight other excellent authors, but these are truly the pivotal and most important books on this subject, also the most current.]
      - echar
        
        Thank you
      - drokhole
        
        Would like to second that recommendation for “JFK and the Unspeakable” by James Douglass. Incredible stuff. Have also been meaning to get around to “Family of Secrets”, just have a few other books I wanted to get through first.
      - Ittabena
        
        Let me add without taking anything away from your comment that McCloy was also the man who oversaw the breakup of the huge I.G. Farben after the war. (Allen Dulles was a Vice President of Farben on this side of the Atlantic.) One of the companies which resulted was Baxter medical which has been caught sending vaccines containing live viruses, which make you sick, rather than the dead ones which will make you immune. If I recall right a Fed Ex truck broke down in France and the French scientists who tested the serum found live viruses.
        
        Thanks for the list, am beginning to work on those right now.
        
        Another must read is The Secret War Against The Jews by Aarons and Loftus. One of best books for helping anyone understand the situation in the Mid East, and the US today.
        
        And though it is a film rather than a book, Dark Legacy presents some pretty powerful evidence, albeit circumstantial, connecting Poppy Bush to the JFK Assassination. Dark Legacy is streaming right now on Netflix for those that want to check that out.
        
        Finally, it’s good to meet someone who has been influenced as much by the JFK assassination as I was. I often wonder what the US would have been like if Camelot had continued for another term, and Bobby had been allowed to assume the helm afterwards. The trouble was they amassed too many powerful enemies in Jack’s first term. None of TPTB could have permitted such a thing to occur.
        
        I also wonder which was the real coup; what was done to our POTUS, or what he was trying to do for us.
        
        Bobby Jr. has been carrying on, in conjunction with Mr. Greg Palast, in their efforts to bring us our vote back. God Bless you Bobby and Greg.
        
        Also, let us not sell Mr. Jim Marrs, author of Crossfire; The Plot That Killed Kennedy, short. For those that don’t know it was this book along with Jim Garrison’s On The Trail Of The Assassins that Oliver Stones’ film JFK was based. Mr. Marrs, not to be confused with Texe Marrs, is also said to have helped with the screenplay. Jim worked as a reporter in Dallas at the time of the assassination.
      - sgtdoom
        
        Thanks for that connection to Baxter Pharmaceutical (and Baxter Int’l), I hadn’t realized that, although I did find out some years back that the Rockefeller family owns a substantial amount of that firm, and there were three overall releases of various pandemic-level infected vaccines over the past decade by Baxter (I believe the last one was when they “accidentally” contaminated the normally non-contagious avian bird flu virus with the highly contagious common flu virus, but the lab in the Czech Republic, and another in Spain, wise up and notified the United Nations’ WHO about it).
        
        Your comment reminded me of the Black Eagle Trust, which was supposed to have been created in the aftermath of World War II by Dulles, Lovett and Anderson (later Eisenhower’s secretary of defense), made up of Nazi-stolen loot (art works primarily from Eastern Europe, etc.), to be used as their private slush fund (and for whatever private purposes?).
      - Ittabena
        
        You bring up Rockefeller and it reminds me that all things are interconnected as the Buddhists claim. I mentioned the book The Secret War Against The Jews and Rockefeller is featured several times but the biggest incident was when he was blackmailed by the hopeful Israelites in the 11th hour before their U.N. vote on Statehood.
        
        Evidently no one thought they would win their Statehood, and they would not have were it not for his pressure on the South American States. South America had been one of the Rockefeller playgrounds, and since the Max spy network knew all about the Ratlines, as they were shipping Jewish refugees from Europe to what is now Israel through the very same ratlines, Rockefeller was ripe for the blackmail.
        
        So it seems we have come full circle back to Mr. Perkins and his efforts in Ecuador. My youngest roommate has an Ecuadorian heritage, so we spent some time looking at what was done to her family’s country of origin. We also looked at Hugo, the Bolivarian Movement, and the causes for their need
        
        Strangely enough, I have read that most of the medical schools in the United States have strings controlled by Rockefeller, which is why in this country we cut and prescribe but do not look for the source or cause of an illness. So it seems that Kramer’s joke on Seinfeld was not such a joke when he said that the medical community did not want to cure you, “it’s big business to keep you sick.” Whether the doctors realize this or not is immaterial, they just aren’t trained to do it. And now we have completed another circle.
      - Ittabena
        
        You bring up Rockefeller and it reminds me that all things are interconnected as the Buddhists claim. I mentioned the book The Secret War Against The Jews and Rockefeller is featured several times but the biggest incident was when he was blackmailed by the hopeful Israelites in the 11th hour before their U.N. vote on Statehood.
        
        Evidently no one thought they would win their Statehood, and they would not have were it not for his pressure on the South American States. South America had been one of the Rockefeller playgrounds, and since the Max spy network knew all about the Ratlines, as they were shipping Jewish refugees from Europe to what is now Israel through the very same ratlines, Rockefeller was ripe for the blackmail.
        
        So it seems we have come full circle back to Mr. Perkins and his efforts in Ecuador. My youngest roommate has an Ecuadorian heritage, so we spent some time looking at what was done to her family’s country of origin. We also looked at Hugo, the Bolivarian Movement, and the causes for their need
        
        Strangely enough, I have read that most of the medical schools in the United States have strings controlled by Rockefeller, which is why in this country we cut and prescribe but do not look for the source or cause of an illness. So it seems that Kramer’s joke on Seinfeld was not such a joke when he said that the medical community did not want to cure you, “it’s big business to keep you sick.” Whether the doctors realize this or not is immaterial, they just aren’t trained to do it. And now we have completed another circle.
      - Ittabena
        
        Perhaps we should get together and write a history textbook, we seem to have complimentary information crammed into our heads. Of course no one would ever print it, let alone use it, but it would be great. I call dibs on the chapters about the Bush’s and the Business Plot…
        
        Okay, the Bush chapter would be too big. I would share that one.
        
        By the way; If you have not, you should read the Rule By Secrecy, and the Rise Of The Fourth Reich both by Jim Marrs. His talent to me seems to be to look through everyone else’s research, connect the dots and draw the story from them. It is much like what you do when you read tarot cards. It is also much like what Graham Hancock does, but somehow Jim is a little more honest and likeable about it.
    - Ittabena
      
      William Casey, who with George Bush Sr. was in control of the Iran/Contra affair. Ollie North knew very little really. The same for Ronald Regan.
      
      To put it into a modern perspective, V.P. George “Poppy” Bush was to Regan what V.P. Dick Cheney was to George Bush Jr. In fact it has been said that Reagan was told to name George as his running mate or forget about the Republican nomination.
      
      Similarly, William Casey was to to George “Poppy” Bush what Rumsfeld was to Dick Cheney.
    - Ittabena
      
      William Casey, who with George Bush Sr. was in control of the Iran/Contra affair. Ollie North knew very little really. The same for Ronald Regan.
      
      To put it into a modern perspective, V.P. George “Poppy” Bush was to Regan what V.P. Dick Cheney was to George Bush Jr. In fact it has been said that Reagan was told to name George as his running mate or forget about the Republican nomination.
      
      Similarly, William Casey was to to George “Poppy” Bush what Rumsfeld was to Dick Cheney.
      - echar
        
        Psychotic, white, rich, and powerful? I kid, I get it.
      - echar
        
        Psychotic, white, rich, and powerful? I kid, I get it.
      - Ittabena
        
        Yeah, pretty much… I am of Bohemian and Austrian descent – pretty damn white – but compared to these guys, I am off-white.
      - Ittabena
        
        Yeah, pretty much… I am of Bohemian and Austrian descent – pretty damn white – but compared to these guys, I am off-white.
      - echar
        
        Hey I have some Bohemian blood. Yeah, to people like those listed, we may as well be be hoofed and spotted. As far as pin pointing who did it, I think it’s almost impossible. sgtdoom seems to have a pretty good idea, but clearly they have read up on the topic a lot.
        
        I am very aware I am among people that have delved pretty deeply on this topic. I just mostly wanted to share what pinged in my mind about all of this.
      - InfvoCuernos
        
        You mean George H W Bush, the guy that was the Cia Director in Dallas when Kennedy was shot? That George? That cabal have been running things since Kennedy went down during republican AND democrat administrations, and that’s why we will never know who did it, and why there are documents that they still won’t let see the light of day.
      - InfvoCuernos
        
        You mean George H W Bush, the guy that was the Cia Director in Dallas when Kennedy was shot? That George? That cabal have been running things since Kennedy went down during republican AND democrat administrations, and that’s why we will never know who did it, and why there are documents that they still won’t let see the light of day.
      - Ittabena
        
        That’s our Poppy. Although I don’t remember him being the Dallas director at the time, He was the director but of the whole CIA, and I thought that came later. I believe about the time of the assassination he was running Zapata Oil out of the Caribbean and buying United Fruit in South America.
        
        I know that Kennedy fired Allen Dulles from the CIA directorship but I don’t think he replaced him with Bush. According to Bush the only time he ever worked for the CIA was when he was national director.
        
        However, I have not had any coffee yet this morning, so I could be wrong on the timeline.
  - echar
    
    I meant it mostly to suggest the group of people, or specifically the corporatocracy. Who is Mr. Casey?
  - sgtdoom
    
    Thanks for those comments Ittabena, plus Perkins is one of those fraudsters who didn’t even have the guts to mention the group he worked for: the Cabot Corporation.
    
    And after the top guy at the CIA’s disinformation division, George Joannides, directed Oswald to Dallas, after arranging for his appearance on the ultra-rightwing radio talk show in New Orleans (listen to it if you have never heard it, Oswald’s articulate discussion of global communism and the varying doctrines, plus his perfect pronunciation of the names of African countries, etc., is expected from a CIA deep cover operative (ostensibly working for the CIA on one level, while seeking the exact location of the CIA’s rogue assassination group which the Kennedy brothers were seeking to shut down, Operation 40).
    
    Oswald was successful in ferreting out the information from Jack Ruby while in Louisiana (Ruby’s gambler friend leased the training site to that group, Operation 40), and it was a cousin of both the Cabot and Forbes’ families, a Mrs. Paine, who would aid in obtaining Oswald’s job at the Texas School Book Depository (which was owned by the founder of the Civil Air Patrol, which group Oswald once served in, prior to his Marine Corps service, where he was trained as a Russian linguist, one of the military specialties which the US intelligence community routinely recruited for the various intel agencies — how do I know this, I read about his training at Montery’s Defense Language Institute in the frigging Warren Commission Report, where you can read about thousands of remarkable variances and never followed-up obvious questions (like when an associate counsel, a Phil Beta Kappa grad, asked Dallas Mayor Earl Cabell, brother of the fired CIA guy, Gen. Cabell, along with Dulles and Richard Bissell [a Harriman protege], if he recognized Jack Ruby at the hospital after President Kennedy’s murder, and Mayor Cabell mentions that he’s known Jack Ruby on a first-hand basis for years???????????????? — because Ruby was the mob payoff guy for the Dallas Police Department).
    
    Anyone who argues about the criminal conspiracy, led by David Rockefeller, and some other super-rich families, need only read the frigging Warren Commission Report — but so very few have ever read it — never bother talking to anyone who has yet to read it!
    
    Read, and ye shall know!
    
    (And on Obama — why was his mother in Indonesia during the most violent period (and anti-American period( of that time, only leaving when Sukarno was overthrown and replaced with the American-trained Suharto? And Timmy Geithner’s daddy was at ever hot spot while ostensibly with the Ford Foundation [which award the Indonesia “study grant” to Obama’s mom — the only private sector job the swashbuckling Geithner dad worked for was a Mellon company, as the special assistant to their CEO; and Obama’s earliest appointment was Diana Farrell, who’s two parents were also CIA. Bet Geithner, Obama and Farrell knew each other as kids, huh?)
BuzzCoastin

JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth?

I think we already do; it’s just not going to be acknowledged by the mainstream media.
BuzzCoastin

JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth?

I think we already do; it’s just not going to be acknowledged by the mainstream media.
slobjones

My personal conclusion from watching this segment is the host of this program is a horrendous mush mouth.
Ittabena

Yeah, your fictitious sister-in-law does this for a living? Annoy people and con desperate people into annoying others. That is what we were put here for, I am sure.
Ittabena

Yeah, your fictitious sister-in-law does this for a living? Annoy people and con desperate people into annoying others. That is what we were put here for, I am sure.
Anarchy Pony

Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
- http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient
  
  Someone’s been watching zero punctuation.
- http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient
  
  Someone’s been watching zero punctuation.
  - Anarchy Pony
    
    Since the first installment.
Len

That was a weak, disinterested interview. Abbey and some younger folks may not realize that the history of this country was changed dramatically on the day of the assassination. Kennedy was ready to make life a little harder for the rich and powerful corporations and their lackeys that do their bidding. His killing worked out quite well for them but not so for the rest of us here in this and other countries.

It reminds me of one of Bill Hicks bits. After a new president takes office he’s brought into a room with a table full of elite establishment types, is shown a film of the Kennedy assassination and asked “Any Questions”.
Len

That was a weak, disinterested interview. Abbey and some younger folks may not realize that the history of this country was changed dramatically on the day of the assassination. Kennedy was ready to make life a little harder for the rich and powerful corporations and their lackeys that do their bidding. His killing worked out quite well for them but not so for the rest of us here in this and other countries.

It reminds me of one of Bill Hicks bits. After a new president takes office he’s brought into a room with a table full of elite establishment types, is shown a film of the Kennedy assassination and asked “Any Questions”.
- Ittabena
  
  Yeah, gotta love Bill Hicks. Miss him. Still think he was killed. Sudden death by cancer; Hicks, Ruby, Aaron Russo. Anyone care to add anymore? One injection and your on your way.
  
  If it weren’t for the assassination and my high school social studies instructor, I would not be here on this site today.