World’s First Perpetual Motion Machine?

via Astounde

Since at least the 12th century, man has sought to create a perpetual motion machine; a device that would continue working indefinitely without any external source of energy.

A large scientific contingent thinks such a device would violate the laws of thermodynamics, and is thus impossible.

Could it be that as a race, we don’t fully understand the laws of physics and such a device may indeed be possible? What would the ramifications be if we could actually build a perpetually moving device?

Norwegian artist and mathematician Reidar Finsrud is an outside the box thinker that has devised a machine that he believes achieves true perpetual motion. Take a look at the video below and see what you think.
  • DeepCough

    Here’s the secret to his perpetual motion device: it’s not so much the maximum efficiency of its cyclical
    structure anymore than it has anything to do with the equidistant trifecta of magnets propelling the ball at constant speed. The secret is “immaculate space.”

    • Cortacespedes

      and BALANCE

  • Chaos_Dynamics

    We live on a planetary perpetual motion machine.

    How many hints it will take for this civilization en masse to wtfu?

    • Aurel

      Actually, our orbit is not perpetual, nor is any orbit. The Earth’s orbit would eventually decay, falling into the sun, though the sun will reach its red giant phase first and envelop the Earth. Similarly, the moon is drifting away from the Earth at about 4cm a year.

      Does this mean there can be no such thing as perpetual motion? I’m going to say no, but it does suggest that orbits obey thermodynamics.

      • Chaos_Dynamics

        Indeed very true.

        Which means we only have about 20 billion years left to wtfu and harmonize with our surroundings.

        And that still may not be enough time considering how stubborn and delusional humans are.

        • The Well Dressed Man

          So perpetual motion or decaying orbit are equivalent reasons to wtfu?
          20 billion years isn’t even a small fraction of perpetuity. I just think we should wtfu. :)

    • jiggawutt

      The electrons in the metal of your light bulb are constantly moving, but the light doesn’t turn on until you connect it to power. Can you tell me why?

      • Chaos_Dynamics

        Unfortunately I am unable to respond to your comment as my fireflies have decided to abandon their illumination posts and the auroral rays have yet to gather into my solar/lunar/auroral focal generators and that unreliable tidal gate is giving me fits on the embedded aqua vortex hybrid active power storage supply. Thermal vent capture seems stable at this time as are integrated bio-luminescent fungal arrays.

        Thankfully the phosphors in these vertical tubes are doing their job absorbing ultraviolet wavelengths and emitting enough light so I can see wtf I am doing as the shanty I live in is located under high voltage power lines.

        Sheesh… what a hassle…

        Ok… What was the question?

        • jiggawutt

          You said that we live on a perpetual motion machine, and so I asked you why a light will not turn on even though the electrons inside the metal are in ‘perpetual’ motion.

          What I’m trying to get at is that just because something moves (in such a way that seems perpetual) doesn’t mean you can just draw an infinite amount of energy from it.

          If it were true that earth (or anything else) was in constant motion, you still cannot draw ‘free’ energy from it. Energy is conserved, so if you convert some of that motion into electricity, then whatever is moving must slow down.

          Perpetual motion machines were proven to be impossible long ago by people clearly smarter than you or I, so when you come out and claim that you have the real handle on things and that perpetual motion machines do in fact exist… then you are going to have to do better than saying, “Earth moves, therefore perpetual motion,” if you expect anyone to take you seriously.

  • Simon Valentine

    the laws of thermodynamics are wrong anyway and a bi-product of irrelevant attempts at ‘human law’ or ‘social’ ‘law’ so who cares. i can speak to you of how to begin engineering and making computers that use nothing but the sun and reflections and shadows to compute np-hard problems. so? ktsmf

    • The Well Dressed Man

      I’m confused. Can you please clarify how the laws of thermodynamics are a byproduct of “attempts at human law?”

      • Simon Valentine

        they’re like ratios of coy and crappy in a pond. some are good to eat and others should be taught a lesson and adjectively replaced. laws are failures according to themselves is a simple lesson. for instance, if perpetual motion does not exist, when does this statement stop circulating (i.e. it says that it must stop therefore saying it has nothing to do with the fact, or, it is in fact not fact … void? collusion? religion?)? also, we see that in laws purportedly logical there are (commonly identified with utilitarian philosophy for i have no idea why) instances of cases to which there is no existing lawful solution. in america, it is seen to often be the case that one can not avoid breaking a law without breaking another, because it may be like urns in the urinal isle with people asking for clean-up on the clean-upers on isle 6 et cetera. so, back to your question per se, these thermodynamics of course had to be accepted during ad hoc legislation, in which case they are in a Latin alphabet and presented to a system which they mimic, mock, imitate, image, reflect, vice-versa, or et cetera. i am not for doing work for you i think but clarity is like good wares so i hope i do not anger you. so, Georg Cantor and his fallacy too. “not existing? make a new one!” which of course preternaturally assumes completion, which is like finishing isle six by knocking over one more can of tuna onto the floor function. “oh, the rasterized slaves will like this aesthetical vector, yeah?!?” so, what is otherwise incorrectly regarded as law is actually failure to communicate matters of an otherwise peaceful (pease-full?) universe (pod-vessel?). humans are carbon based units, purportedly, yes? so either we see carbon because of consciousness or vice-versa? what else? we do not have non-polynomial eyes? i don’t know. i am work it. good luck to you and us

        • The Well Dressed Man


          For a second there I thought I was corresponding with a forum troll. But there’s a certain… genuine gonzo wordsmithery here. My hope is that someone has somehow programmed an AI to become self-aware, but to base this cognition on critical theory, dadaist manifestos, and in emergencies to consult an undergrad “math for liberal arts majors” text to find workarounds to any actual equations that might come up.

          All the best!

          • Simon Valentine

            sort of like praternatural. proto axiomatic aphoric maxim. apophasis natura. eclipse. sacrifice. yadda. numerology. astrology. belial. gematria. genera. gametes. games. sage. m-theory. 006. artificial economy ctl-shift, alibaba, camel cosines, factorification, resume trash en toto, de facto post-human mastery, fallability of the infallable empty headed bobble top wait for someone else to answer and then jump in the geese trough jefferson effect people? did you know Euler-Mascheroni is having a stroke or a siezure? sure, i skipped you some hop-scotch like a zerg rush zenataur, but here’s to boredom and interest:*+H_n+%3D+ln%28n%29

          • The Well Dressed Man

            O Slartibartfast: Regale us with thy slithey toves. Euler certainly did lubricate, which helped limit the difference when the Log lady played the opening theme on her harmonica throughout the series. She was a natural! Electricity. Candy colored clowns. A love letter from a neighbor. I too hung from that tree for nine days and nights, eyepatch firmly in place. 12 Galaxies in Zegnatronic Rocket Attack! New number too wants in formation. You kids get off my ice! The nights that sai knee. Groop! I implore thee! Jack Parsons got the Scarlet Woman from Elron after the handoff from Von Braun.



          • Simon Valentine

            wav thyze vicious vixens voluptuous vendetta aye! 20,000 leagues gone by! waldo in the janus eye! what alice i had seen last night, not knowing what awaiting tight might sight meet this hour! what warcraft dreams sewn with starcraft semes without A, i say. Nottinghamshire be damed! my rocketry is federal, my emissions are in fusion, caltekybernan shallen’t not revenge mein roger jackson’s cat! thelema of my catholic grandmother says i am the babel templar o.0 i birth her girth within hade’s hologram, and my logs are sliding scales indeed good sirrah. indeed my slide rules compute anomalies as the locations of factors within intergizated memories! so con-fused on where to go, i am. babylon.

          • The Well Dressed Man

            sometimes, her arms bend back.

          • Simon Valentine

            i surely hope i shallen’t have to heal any twisted kankersores, my massage practice is awfully rusty. oxymorons in this vicinity. soap? ha ha. indeed.

          • The Well Dressed Man

            The crocodile’s teeth are designed to seize and hold prey, not to cut through skin:

          • Simon Valentine

            Ammit on my heart since the minutes of my rather unyoung youth. One can learn a great many things as constantly as can be symbiotic with such a perpetual entity. I labor, bleeding tax like confection. Each-each-others infection. Insurance exoskeleton plotted ’til the bitter end, spun all variables out so far to erase all that had been. Bending, twisting agony not solely ununique, what fraction of a metaphor is metabolic speech?
            These fruit muskets of fulfillment of discrete morale
            If it’s all so scientific then why can’t anybody do it
            Obviously this organization is a metabolic algorism
            Anyone can do death and aye and eyes and mostly i
            Magician card trick business news caster manifest
            Babel card game alibi anime sensuality experience
            The next spiral section of a philine still hanging on
            Bastard offspring of nature’s must needs score F
            Collecting biomass and essence like Dehaka’s friend
            Come for me this queen of blades and sent inside
            Temples suddenly avibe as i abide this supposed
            Death is only the beginning

          • The Well Dressed Man




            this is the girl.

          • Simon Valentine

            it’s no longer my movie >.<

  • jiggawutt

    I’m constantly astonished at the way people delude themselves into thinking they can overcome nature itself. And yet most of those people are the same ones that say we have to be in tune with nature. Pick a side already! And your damn machine requires energy, everything does and there never will be a perpetual motion machine. And if there was one, it would be better off destroyed than allowed to constantly heat our atmosphere until it boils away. Get real, and stop having f-ing babies (the real solution to climate change).

    • echar

      Someone needs some happy time. Upvoted, just because I feel for you.

    • BuzzCoastin

      > I’m constantly astonished at the way people delude themselves into thinking
      they can overcome nature itself.

      I’m constantly astonished that people think
      wee have discovered the Laws of Nature.
      If anything
      history shows that the hubris caused by knowledge
      limits the ability to understand Nature.

      • jiggawutt

        So, you’re saying knowledge makes you ignorant? What? I don’t think you would be talking like this if the video was of a man who claimed he can make water run uphill spontaneously. It just doesn’t happen. Every single one of these perpetual motion machine guys are either naively fighting an endless technical battle with their equipment, or are outright frauds who are trying to scam money from “investors.”

        Now, if you will excuse me, I must drink this snake oil to cure this nasty bout of HIV.

        • BuzzCoastin

          If your telling me the Earth revolves around the sun
          It just doesn’t happen.
          If you’re telling me that the planets revolve around the sun
          It just doesn’t happen.
          If you’re telling me that the earth is older than 6000 years
          It just doesn’t happen.
          If you’re telling me man will one day fly like a bird
          It just doesn’t happen.
          If you’re telling me humans will one day
          learn the limits of their ignorance
          It just doesn’t happen.

        • echar

          Every single one of these perpetual motion machine guys are either
          naively fighting an endless technical battle with their equipment, or
          are outright frauds who are trying to scam money from “investors

          You just illustrated exactly what Buzz is talking about, but I think you still may not get it.

        • Juan

          The point is, that we do not know everything, and when we start thinking we do, this idea naturally limits what you are even willing to consider. It is a self imposed limitation.
          We have a long way to go before we settle our accounts with nature.

        • LucidDreamR

          It is only the wisest amongst us who can admit they are fools, and only the foolish who are positive.

        • ParanoidCoast

          Rupert Sheldrake suggests we should have an “X Prize” for perpetual motion machines. I can’t see how that would do any harm? Bring them out in the open for examination and testing. The best machine wins the prize. Simple! We could even have some betting on the side!

          “There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now, All that remains is more and more precise measurement.”

          “X-rays will prove to be a hoax.”

          Both quotes by Lord Kelvin.

          • jiggawutt

            That would be giving these people too much credit, placing them on a pedestal and having an X Prize dangled out there for anyone to create such a machine would practically be a clear statement by the X Foundation that they do not believe scientific findings or believe in the pursuit of science in general. Science isn’t about stubbornly trying to make a machine work the way you dream it will, it is about discovery. And one of the things we have discovered is that in order to make something move, it requires power. And if there are external forces acting on that something, then it will need more energy to keep moving. As such, there cannot be a machine that does work without losing energy.

            Just as much as water cannot spontaneously flow uphill, or a generator turning 100% of its heat into power, perpetual motion machines simply are not possible. They would violate the laws of physics (laws are found experimentally, btw, not passed down from on high or dictated by some dick in a lab coat).

            You can quote as many people putting their foots in their mouths as you like, but the universe isn’t going to bend to your will — but we certainly can know why it won’t.

          • echar

            If you say so!

          • ParanoidCoast

            I’ve been a bad boy for using my imagination.

          • jnana

            and maybe someday someone will discover laws that supersede current natural law. or discover there is no law but NO LAW.

    • kowalityjesus

      the amount of energy required to boil off the atmosphere would be astronomically more than the amount of fossil energy needed to generate the carbon dioxide required to fundamentally alter the biosphere.

      wondering what you woudl think of a website like this…

  • Zenc

    From 2:11 in the video “…and in fear that there may be those who would wish to suppress such a possibility, he keeps his machine locked away in a vault, in the basement…”

    I bet if aliens ever do discover us, they’ll think we’re the craziest bags of slime in the Multiverse.

    • kowalityjesus

      I’m fairly convinced that we are rather common knowledge in the galaxy. Contrary to your statement I have faith in my fellow man.

      • Zenc

        As I’m sure you know, I have surprisingly little faith in anything.

        • kowalityjesus

          God wuvs you. Lord knows I do. : )

          • Zenc

            I do appreciate that.

            But Jesus is still getting a black eye if I see him before he sees me.

  • kowalityjesus

    Isn’t there some kind of inconsistency with the “permanence” of permanent magnets? that’s what the trolls claim about magnet powered motors on youtube.

    • jiggawutt

      “Permanent” magnets occur when the crystals in a substance are electronically arranged in a way such that the sum of all the magnetic subdomains over the entire structure has a magnitude greater than zero; there is some magnetic flux that occurs naturally in the rock/mineral/metal.

      The real reason permanent magnet ‘perpetual motion’ motors do not work has nothing to do with the magnets themselves; instead it has to do with the work integral you get from any given point passing one of the magnets… that is, it equals zero when it has long passed the magnet. In order to counter act the deceleration of the motor, you must arrange the magnetic field in such a way that it exerts torque on the flywheel. Typically this is done by copper coils and electricity… which uses power. And thus not really perpetual motion, just a standard motor.

      • CosmicAmazing

        Have you ever heard of an asymmetrical magnet? Permanent magnets with anisotropic field strengths laterally to the line between North and South poles. In short, a permanent magnet can be made with a stronger field on its left than its right; flipping it on the other side will reverse which side is the stronger magnetic field. With asymmetric magnets, the possibility of creating a permanent magnet motor is a reality.

        • jiggawutt

          That still would not work. Even if one side is pulling less strongly than the other, you still will get zero work because that strong side will decelerate the flywheel in equal proportion to the acceleration it caused before that point on the flywheel got to it.

          The only way you could make this work is if you were to turn off the magnetic field right as that point on the motor passes directly over the magnet. You cannot do that with permanent magnets, you must use electricity and induction in order to do that. Again, requires energy, again NOT a perpetual motion machine, just a regular motor.

          • CosmicAmazing

            > “That still would not work. Even if one side is pulling less strongly than the other, you still will get zero work because that strong side will decelerate the flywheel in equal proportion to the acceleration it caused before that point on the flywheel got to it.”

            That’s simply not true. How on earth did you come to that conclusion? One pole is pushing much stronger than the other pole is pulling. Think of a tug-of-war and apply that same logic to the magnets. If you use magnets with asymmetric fields in a rotary motor it will cause the overall driving magnetic force around the rotational loop to be nonzero. So the net work accomplished by that assembly will also be, nonzero. Any competent person using asymmetric magnets can assemble a self-powering permanent magnet motor or motor-generator, that powers itself and a load, in a very short time.

            Also, a self-powering permanent magnet motor does NOT, I repeat, does NOT violate the (very old) second law of thermodynamics. Even though it may appear that way. A magnet is a dipole, and since the 1950’s it has been known (in particle physics) that every dipole continually receives virtual state energy, transforms it into observable state energy, and outputs (in the magnet’s case) real magnetic field energy. Nature does not care whether the operator insists on paying for the achieved net asymmetry himself, or his magnets are made asymmetric so that their fundamental magnetic force field around the rotational loop is nonzero. I hope that you understand this.

            Now, to the claim of “perpetual motion”, which is a dubious claim at best. I think we both agree there. Yes, you could make something that seems like it would run forever, but in reality some parts in the system will degrade/decay over time – thus causing the device to stop or slow. Nothing can truly move forever, unless of course, its an object placed in motion and put into deep space – where it will stay in motion until acted upon by an unbalanced force. An unbalanced force that could even be some stray hydrogen atoms. Which the object will eventually bump into and over billions or trillions of years it may slow down a bit. (Grasping at straws there.)

            Science nowadays has become more like a religion it seems. If you create something that goes against the current model being taught, it’s almost always met with a great deal of incredulity. And while scepticism is a healthy part of science, when experiment(s) show a model is flawed, that model should be changed/updated. This doesn’t always happen and it especially doesn’t happen when a new concept is found to contradict an old one.

            Best Regards.

          • jiggawutt

            I’m not speaking as a devotee of some cult, and I think it’s rude of you to suggest something like that of anyone serious about science. I know what I’m talking about because I have done the math and the experiments in the presence of professional physicists, some of which are the best in the world.

            If you really expect me to believe that a magnetic field operates like that, then you would have to expect me to distrust every bit of evidence that would speak otherwise.

            The sort of thing you are talking about is that there is some point in the field that is not smooth. The magnetic field on one end of the magnet simply stops at a certain point, like a wall dividing space into a magnetic and non-magnetic regions. If this were true, the device made from such magnets would accelerate until it flies apart.

            Now, as far as I can tell no one has made such a device or such a magnet (we wouldn’t be having this conversation if someone had). I suggest you open a physics textbook before you spout off on subjects you know next to nothing about.

    • The Well Dressed Man

      We’ve forgotten an important source I’m afraid:

    • CosmicAmazing

      Yes, it has been shown that with some skill and specialized magnetizers, you can imprint an oscillating field into a permanent magnet. That’s basically the way John Searl gets his device to work. He claims it’s the “Law of Squares” or some BS like that, but in reality he’s just imprinting sine waves into permanent magnets.

  • gravrot

    It’s probably getting “power” from the Earth, via her rotation/gravity.

  • The Well Dressed Man

    repost… deleted

  • The Well Dressed Man

    I draw three possible conclusions here:

    a- this system has an efficiency of 80% to 99% (quite an accomplishment btw) and eventually stops.

    b- this is a fraud, and a hidden battery is keeping the system in equilibrium (like one of these:

    c- this is actually a perpetual motion machine and disproves the first two laws of thermodynamics.

    Occam’s razor is good enough for me to eliminate option c. Peer reviewed study would be the minimum evidence I’d need to reconsider.