Portland, Oregon, Votes On Water Fluoride

Citizens of Portland, Oregon, vote today on whether or not to add fluoride to the municipal water supply. Tell them how and why to vote in the comments section disinfonauts!


Majestic is gadfly emeritus.

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49 Comments on "Portland, Oregon, Votes On Water Fluoride"

  1. lilbear68 | May 21, 2013 at 10:23 am |

    fluoride is a highly toxic by product that cannot be made less toxic by any means known today. the EPA has no process for disposing it in a reasonable manner. false information was used to convince govt wonks that it was good for our teeth way back in the day. all over the euro zone it is banned. while im not impressed with most euro zone decisions i agree with this one and that they have banned GMO seeds and food

  2. Toxic waste is good for you.
    Can anyone here tell me how I can eliminate that shit from my drinking water in some kind of way that is not too complicated?

    • Calypso_1 | May 21, 2013 at 10:42 am |

      Reverse osmosis filtration.

      • I was under the impression that reverse osmosis didn’t work either.

        • CosmicAmazing | May 21, 2013 at 2:19 pm |

          I think it does work for sodium fluoride but not hydrofluorosilicic acid.

          • i’d expect it the other way around, unless i’m mistaken, lower molecular weight is harder to filter

          • Calypso_1 | May 21, 2013 at 3:10 pm |

            Those break down into ions. You have to be able to filter the Flouride anion.
            Many manufacturers make claims about their system based on filtration of the compound.

        • Calypso_1 | May 21, 2013 at 2:37 pm |

          Prob not your average home system. You’d need a top of the line filter. Around a .1 nm pore size. They are used is dialysis water filtration.

    • I don’t know how accurate this is, but this might be worth looking in to. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/salud_fluor41.htm

    • JoiquimCouteau | May 21, 2013 at 11:27 am |

      Seychelle pitcher water filters claim to remove 80-95% of fluoride. Beyond that you’ll need a whole-house filter. In theory it should be very easy to make, but the ones available are quite expensive.

    • Bluebird_of_Fastidiousness | May 21, 2013 at 11:42 am |

      Move to the country, get used to atrazine and nitrates.

      • Bluebird_of_Fastidiousness | May 21, 2013 at 11:58 am |

        Seriously though, a reverse osmosis is the way to go. I have a Hydrotech tap filter (happy with it, though it is slow/low pressure). If you’re on municipal water and it’s chlorinated, a berkey may be better if it lets the chlorine evaporate. I’m not sure it would. International aid organizations use them in remote areas, so they are also adaptable for things like camping, or civil collapse (very similar in some ways).

        If a water filter looks expensive, compare medical bills.

    • CosmicAmazing | May 21, 2013 at 2:17 pm |

      You need to buy Alex Jones’ ProPur water filters! It’s the only way! 😉

      Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

  3. Rex Vestri | May 21, 2013 at 11:09 am |

    F T F Y

  4. CosmicAmazing | May 21, 2013 at 11:10 am |

    Fluoride is a horrible toxic chemical. My boss’s dentist has been pushing fluoride pills on his 8 year old son for years now. Because of all the BS that’s taught to these parents about fluoride. My boss and his wife gave it to their son without thinking twice about it. Well, once I found out I immediately became vocal about it. I pushed him and his wife to stop giving their 8 year old son fluoride pills every night before bed. To make a long story short, him and his wife finally stopped giving it to their 8 year old son and guess what? The boy’s grades started improving, he started to focus more in school, and he started getting sick less and less. Honest to Bob. Once my boss realized the positive outcome he told me not to say “I told you so!” But guess what? I told him so…

  5. Elana Pritchard | May 21, 2013 at 11:51 am |

    I heard all of the bad stuff about fluoride so I decided to switch to a non-fluoride toothpaste… the Tom’s of Maine non-fluoride, as an experiment.

    After about 3 mos. of brushing with it (along with flossing and even frequent oil swishing) I began to develop problems in my gums, with bleeding and irritation.

    I finally bit the bullet and got some fluoride toothpaste (specialized for gum care) and within about 2 days the problem stopped.

    I don’t think that anything should be put into the water supply without the consent of the citizens, absolutely. But when it comes to whether or not something is effective, I always let science decide.

    • CosmicAmazing | May 21, 2013 at 12:06 pm |

      It’s funny reading your comment because the exact opposite is true for me. I had problems with fluoride toothpaste and switched to non-fluoride toothpaste. Sense-something was the name, can’t remember the exact name of the top of my head. But all the problems I had with gums bleeding and canker sores went away once I stopped using fluoride-based toothpaste.

      • Elana Pritchard | May 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm |

        I guess that everyone is different. I just want to be healthy. I am not going to believe the fluoride people because they pressure me to, or the non-fluoride people because they pressure me to. I believe in science and facts.

        I think the citizens of an area should decide what goes into their water supply.

        • Cosmic & Elana I just want to say how amazing refreshing your discussion is. I live in Portland and this vote has literally destroyed friendships and the ability to communicate rationally. Also I believe that people are different and occasionally need different things to keep them healthy. I wish that concept could be part of the political discourse here.

          • Elana Pritchard | May 21, 2013 at 1:58 pm |

            Thank you Brian, I try to stay rational, because in the end it isn’t about being right or wrong, it’s about making informed, healthy decisions.

          • I agree, but I am also reading that you decide on the basis of science. You might want to read the following. Not the link I was looking for;


            Additionally one of the first countries to use Fluoridated water was Hitler’s Germany. Not because Adolph was worried about his people’s teeth but because it made his people more manageable.

            Additionally, Stalin used it too, but only in the Gulags.

            Another thing that you should know is that the Fluoride that is in our drinking water comes from one of three sources. The production of nuclear materiel and the production of aluminum, nuclear weapons or fertilizer. We are actually drinking industrial waste.

            Remember a couple of years ago when we discovered that China was now supplying our Fluoride? Everyone wondered if it was pure, or clean. Fluoride is on of the smallest molecules we know of, which makes it very hard, and very expensive to filter out. It is also the second most poisonous element we know of and doesn’t seem to want to exit the body. Therefore when everyone was wondering about the purity of our poison which was coming from China, I just had to shake my head.

            Not trying to pick on you, just giving you the facts as I understand them. Might want to look at the main ingredient in rat poison next time you are in the supermarket.

          • Elana Pritchard | May 22, 2013 at 3:31 pm |

            Ok, after researching yesterday, and after my toothbrushing experiment on myself (not the most scientifically accurate, granted), this is the conclusion that I reached.

            There is science behind how fluoride helps recalcify your teeth, thus preventing dental carries. This seems to be the most effective topically, like in a toothpaste applied directly to the area. Like with all medicines, everyone has their own unique reaction to it. That, along with the fact that it is less effective when ingested, makes me believe that it is not a good idea to put it in the water supply.

            The rat poison doesn’t really effect anything regarding my decision, as that is a highly concentrated amount of fluoride, and as with any chemical when highly concentrated it it has a different effect then when used in smaller amounts.

            It looks like the fluoride won’t be added to your community’s water supply, and I think that was the best possible decision. However, I don’t think that people who use fluoride topically should be demonized, as there is science behind it’s effectiveness in recalcification of the teeth.

          • Actually there was some research saying that Fluoride in the drinking water was beneficial to your teeth’s health. But there is such a fine line between enough and too much that the benefit is marginal. However getting it into the water supply at that time successfully ended some ground breaking legislation. Lawsuits against weapons manufacturers, and Alcoa, so here was a rock that killed two birds.

            Trouble is it is now in everything; vegetables, tea, tap water masquerading as bottled water.

            BTW not in Portland but Seattle. Still Portlandia though,

          • Ted Heistman | May 23, 2013 at 3:02 am |

            You seem like a nice person.

        • CosmicAmazing | May 21, 2013 at 2:02 pm |

          I actually never became anti-fluoride until I stopped using it and realised it was causing a lot of my issues. But like you said, everyone is different. Which is why I don’t agree that it should be put into a water supply so people won’t have the choice to consume it or not. Good luck and stay healthy. 🙂

          • Elana Pritchard | May 21, 2013 at 2:04 pm |

            Yes, you too, and good luck with your vote.

          • Ted Heistman | May 21, 2013 at 3:29 pm |

            Ok, so what are you saying? you believe a fluoride deficiency caused your gums to bleed? So based on this anecdote, that might be a coincidence, you now “believe science”?

            What about non-flouride toothpaste that is formulated to treat gums? Did you try that? Is any toothpaste company making claims that failure to use fluoride causes bleeding gums? I have not heard that.

    • Ted Heistman | May 21, 2013 at 1:26 pm |

      Did you for get to mention you were smoking meth while using Tom’s?

      • Elana Pritchard | May 21, 2013 at 1:39 pm |

        No, I am a normal, healthy person.

        • Nicholas Raethke | May 21, 2013 at 1:55 pm |

          I agree with you Elana, everyone is different, and perhaps your teeth and body handle fluoride better than others. One concern that fluoride opponents have and that is backed up by loads of scientific research, is that fluoride, as a medicine distributed evenly throughout the water supply, is unethical and absurb, because every person and certainly not every species will benefit from it. It can have negative effects on the young, elderly, and sick especially. Additionally, topical use and ingestion are not the same thing.

          • Elana Pritchard | May 21, 2013 at 4:09 pm |

            Yes, I agree. I never once said I wanted fluoride in the water supply. I was just sharing an experience I had.

            It’s easy to target me and vilify me, if you are looking for a villain, but if people will actually read the things I said, I never once said I was pro fluoride in the water supply.

            There is scientific evidence both for and against the use of fluoride, so I decided to try an experiment on myself. And yes there is a difference between topical use and ingesting fluoride, as with most chemicals.

            It seems like there is a lot of hate flying around about this issue. It makes me wonder… why do people care about it at all? Is it for purely selfish reasons, and hang anyone who disagrees with you? It seems that if you care about the health of your community, you will have zero tolerance for toxic hate, stress, and anger (not you Nicholas, but in general), which have very adverse health effects as well.

            That’s all I have to say now, best of luck to all.

          • Ted Heistman | May 21, 2013 at 4:19 pm |

            I certainly don’t hate you. I just don’t think your “experiment” was very scientific. You didn’t isolate enough variables, and your data set was too small. You seemed to have concluded that lack of fluoride caused your gums to bleed and that using a fluoride tooth paste formulated to treat gum disease cleared it up, because of the fluoride in it.

            Neither of those conclusions are particularly logical inferences.

            Could your gum irritation have other causes besides lack of fluoride?

            Could the new toothpaste (formulated to heal gums) have cleared up the gum irritation through the other active ingredients?

  6. JoiquimCouteau | May 21, 2013 at 12:02 pm |

    It’s incredible to me that disinterested people can be pro-fluoridation.
    During and after WWII, there were ostensibly studies carried out to assess the safety of consuming fluoridated water. These studies, performed in the late 1940s and early 1950s under the umbrella of “Project F”, were classified until the late 1990s.

    I recently had the opportunity to peruse the personal laboratory notebooks of Frank Smith, the chemist responsible for these safety studies. He was often a co-author of Harold Hodge, who had been an ALCOA lawyer and the face of the early pro-fluoridation movement.

    I was taken aback by how trivial it all was. Dozens of notebooks, filled almost entirely with thousands upon thousands of pages of tabulated organ weights. Heart, kidney, liver, spleen. As far as I saw, no biological data was recorded – which in hindsight is not that surprising, since Smith was a chemist. In a study he conducted for Proctor & Gamble where he fed stannous fluoride toothpaste to dogs, he wrote that the dogs appeared to be in excellent health except for the frequent profuse vomiting.

    All modern biological research on hydrogen-, sodium-, tin-, and sillico-fluorides points to their intrinsic toxicity, and at no time has there ever been any scientific justification for claiming otherwise.

  7. tibby trillz | May 21, 2013 at 12:30 pm |

    its amazing that people are actually for putting flouride in water. seems like you would have a strong opinion to be against it or, you just dont care one way or the other.

  8. The fluoride biz could just package and advertise their product. They would put out way more propaganda and make way more money, but at least those who don’t trust what the t.v. tells them could have the option of a fucking plain glass of water. Just like everything else.

  9. Umm, fluoride causes nerve tissue calcification. Nerves are supposed to be myelinated, not calcified. That this is even up for a vote is moronic in the highest. Fluoride might do wonders when topically applied to calcium deposits (teeth), but this shit should never be ingested.


    • i still never understood that the rationale that fluoride could “fix your teeth” and thus it is fair to take away all of the classically understood tools for bone health such as of calcium exposure (not in crest toothpaste)

      • This is the tricky part (if you’re an idiot and don’t understand the concept of participatory argumentation), or the part that is manipulated by tricksters, fluoride helps teeth when used as a topical agent. It has no dental benefit when swallowed. And, obviously as all of us here know, when ingested acts as a poison. Read Christopher Bryson’s “The Fluoride Deception.” Great book, talks all about it. A run down of Bryson’s story can be watched here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuTD-FGwLr0

  10. Aipeed Teaitchse | May 21, 2013 at 1:11 pm |

    Read the warning label on 99.99% of toothpaste tubes.
    “If Swallowed Contact Poison Control Center Right Away”
    That should be enough to make the case in all honesty. Ingesting fluoride calcifies the pineal gland and increases the risk of bone cancer among other side effects. But some in the pro-fluoridation camp may see some duplicitous benefits from a less intuitive population with less longevity especially if it disproportionately affects the blacks. But my municipality fluoridated the water and supposedly it affects your memory, but my municipality fluoridated the water and supposedly it affects your memory. Anyway it’s a great way to recycle toxic waste and shine up those pearly whites!

  11. DeepCough | May 21, 2013 at 1:17 pm |

    If you think fluoride belongs in the water supply, you must have swallowed too much toothpaste already.

  12. Nicholas Raethke | May 21, 2013 at 2:02 pm |

    I would like to see someone that is pro-fluoridation acknowledge two facts: 1) That fluoridation is not used by or supported by the people or the scientific communities of most of the world, and 2) That many countries with fluoridation and many countries without fluoridation have experienced similar drops in tooth decay. It seems that the refusal to acknowledge these facts exposes fluoridation proponents and their science as simple jingoism.

  13. Here is what our own government says:


    What are fluoride’s health effects?
    Exposure to excessive consumption of fluoride over a lifetime may lead to increased likelihood of bone fractures in adults, and may result in effects on bone leading to pain and tenderness. Children aged 8 years and younger exposed to excessive amounts of fluoride have an increased chance of developing pits in the tooth enamel, along with a range of cosmetic effects to teeth.

    • Update:
      Portland fluoride: For the fourth time since 1956, Portland voters reject fluoridation

  14. リカルド 忍者の心 | May 21, 2013 at 4:35 pm |

    Here in Brazil, fluoride has been added to the tap water of the hole country for decades, poor and ignorant people pass their hole lives drinking it and they keep loosing their teeth, while chemical industries owned by politicians profit a lot with that! No fluoridade added to water is efficient on tooth protecting, as people simply swallow it, and there is no interest by the government in teaching the population proper oral hygiene.

  15. The Well Dressed Man | May 21, 2013 at 10:59 pm |

    I have definitely have misgivings about fluoridation, involuntary medication sets a creepy precedent. Curious though if any of our chemically inclined community knows how much added fluoride differs from the naturally occurring variety?

    • Calypso_1 | May 21, 2013 at 11:40 pm |

      Doesn’t matter, you are getting free F- ions either way.
      Natural flouride induced toxicity is a far greater health risk than anything going on with the the treatment process (not that I think they should be doing it). But natural toxicity is considered one of the major world health problems.

  16. as per general ripper in dr. strangelove” the most monsterously conceived and dangerous commie plot we face today – water fluoridation.”

  17. I’m glad they decided against Floridation, because I’m stuck drinking the water either way and I didn’t even get a vote since I live across the river in Vancouver.

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