What Do You Do When a Woman Hits You?

violent_womanJoseph Kerr writes at the Good Men Project:

What do you do when a girl hits you?

I was sitting across the desk from the child protective services supervisor, who spoke with confidence of things he didn’t know.

“You’ve been to Iraq, we know all the guys who come back are fucked up in the head… If you need medication to stay focused or to see someone for mental issues — we know the military just sends you to war and spits you back out on the streets — we can help you with that.”

That’s one hell of a worm in the water. I had steady hands on my gear as the bullets were flying. My voice was confident when addressing senior leaders no matter the circumstance. Now I wore a nice-guy smile and kept cool as the guy who was going to decide if I was fit to see my daughter again belittled my Marine Corps career and used my stack of medals to weigh the scales against me; to prove my psychosis.

My hands lay gently on the table; the identification tabs from jail and the hospital were stacked on my left wrist. I turned my head slightly. He’d have to continue to insult my manhood and military service into a baseball-sized lump enveloping my eye.

“What do you do when a girl hits you? … You wouldn’t just stand there, right? I mean you’re a big guy, you’re a Marine, you’re trained to fight, the Marines wouldn’t teach you to get beat up….”

Clever.

Getting hit by a woman is a new kind of scary for me. I can face fear, I can fight scary, but I can’t hit a woman. It’s a prisoner’s dilemma for the assaulted. The guy laughed at me when I said there’s nothing to do except just turn away. I asked what he’d do if I were a woman and started hitting him in this private interview room. “I’d grab your arms and hold you back,” he said. I countered, “that’s going to be tough for you to explain why I’ll have your handprints and bruises on my arms and there’s not a scratch on you.”

He made a final attempt to reduce me to a crazy-veteran archetype. One more question and I could relieve him of the work required in an actual investigation.

“So the police thought you were lying, right? That’s why they arrested you. If they believed you they wouldn’t arrest you.”

Breathe. Think. Pause, not too long. The words have to sound calm. Breathe.

My marriage wasn’t great. Heck, let’s be straight, it was on the verge of collapse. Probably had been there for at least two years. I was staying for the kids. My wife and I fought (verbally) nearly every time we had more than a few sentences to say to each other. We were roommates with chidden running around. It was horrible, but each weekend I was home and I had my kids. My two awesome kids. I’d take them out as often I could and do anything I could so they didn’t need to be in the middle of their mom and I.

Finally it was going to end. She wanted to move out of state with the kids and had no interest in discussing sharing custody. “We’re not discussing it, you can’t stop us from leaving. Sign it or I’ll get a lawyer and make you sign it.” She handed me a do-it-yourself version of divorce papers.

I reached out to some divorce lawyers. This life sucks for me, for the kids, for everyone. What do I do? “It’s a game of chicken in your house now,” the he said. “Neither one of you can leave with the kids, and the first one who leaves without them is a step behind in trying to get custody.”

Is there a worse possible way to resolve such a pending disaster?

Then the email confirmation — plane tickets, one adult, two children, one way, leaving soon. Tomorrow morning would be different, but sleeping on the couch was normal. I ended up on the ground next to the stairs. She kicked my head into the solid wood base. I blacked out, came to, stood up, bleeding. My daughter was screaming, “Stop hurting daddy!”

It was over. We were over. I headed out the door to the police and then the hospital. My daughter stopped me. “Daddy, you need to go to a doctor, here take this,” she handed me a bandage. “I love you” was the last thing I said to her. It’s been almost a month.

I walked into the police station falling apart. What happened? What will I do next? What happens on Monday? What happens for the rest of my life? How will I explain what just happened to my kids? My head was spinning as much from the injury as from the complete collapse of my home life. I knew the officer, I had came by the night before suspecting that my wife was leaving with the kids, he assumed why I was crying, “hey man, it’s alright, you knew this was going to happen….”

I pulled off my sunglasses and revealed my bloody face. “Whoa, what the hell happened?”

I started piecing together what happened. The argument, her throwing the breakfast I was making for the kids on the ground, grabbing my laptop, the stairs, my kids, screaming. I pulled out the Band-Aid and broke down again.

“Is she hurt? Did you hit her…?” No. Never. I waited.

“We’re sending a car over there to talk to here.” I waited some more.

“You wife is telling a bit of a different story, as happens a lot in these situations, she says you threatened her.”

“We’re going to take you into custody now.”

“Stand up and put your hands behind your back.”

An hour later I was handcuffed to a hospital bed waiting for CAT scan results to know if my head was bleeding. I looked at the officer.

“What do you do when a woman hits you?”

Read more here.

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  • DeepCough

    What do you do when a woman hits you?

    Block.

    • cosmicrocosm

      Then sweep the leg.

      • DeepCough

        When in serious doubt….

        [img]https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7772284160/h4B14B96D/[/img]

        • atlanticus

          One day I’m going to have to make a video game, or animated short, or pornographic film, or metal song or, you know, fill-in-the-blank, that is all about a woman violently ripping apart a man.

          I know it will only be a drop in the bucket, compared to the oceans of material in the reverse context, but I can only pray that my small contribution will make a ripple…

          • The Well Dressed Man

            Have you seen Takashi Miike’s “Audition?”

          • atlanticus

            Ooh…actually, no, but it’s been on my Netflix queue for years…is it good?

            I saw Ichi the Killer…

          • The Well Dressed Man

            Good and creepy. Definitely a role reversal of the “normative” abuse dynamic.

          • atlanticus

            I definitely will check it out.

          • Iuwus

            I studied japanese horror for a while, I actually focused on Audition. It’s an interesting thing that women are often the ones doing the punishing rather than being punished which is more common in western horror – pretty sure it’s got something to do with their creation myth when the female of the divine pair becomes vengeful – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izanami.

          • The Well Dressed Man

            My somewhat limited experience with Japanese women in BDSM play suggests that the “demure” gender stereotype has an equal and opposite expression in private.

          • Iuwus

            Hmm not too difficult to believe. I’ve never visited japan so my examination of the culture was out of books and movies aka pretty sterile. i was fascinated by the strict social mask thing – a face for formal situations, casual, work and play etc. i can only speculate as to the mass effect of such daily ritualised repression and purge.

          • The Well Dressed Man

            Stateside experiences, and mostly with Nisei and Sansei, so not the same culture. I think maybe our ancestors myths hang around our psyches for many generations though. Someday I’ll visit, though I hear getting into that sort of event as a gaijin is virtually impossible.

          • Iuwus

            ah i see – i’d not even considered usa japanese culture, thanks for that, a very interesting tale indeed, especially from a genetic memory perspective. i guess i’ll be a dumb gaijin too, but that’s ok it’s my usual mode for visiting other people’s homes. there are access points through art I think though, i’ve been learning anime style and been comparing my choice of strokes to the japanese pros, pretty cool how much you can learn that way. i’ve been thinking of learning how to draw traditional style japanese art too (although I want more confidence in the perfection of my strokes before i tackle that). i reckon that’ll be an interesting experiment into genetic memory too – see how much i ‘remember’ doing this stuff, if that makes sense.

            oh p.s (what event? read back and not sure what you’re referring to here)

          • The Well Dressed Man

            I really should try to clarify!

            OP’s tragic story was an opening for me to perhaps selfishly seek a dialog on Femdom BDSM. I’m into getting smacked around by women, in a very specific, private, consenting-adults sort of way. I sometimes go to “play parties” where like minded kinksters gather. In liberal US cities, it’s a discrete practice, but somewhat casual. I’m told the scene in Japan is extremely formal, and one does not attend without an invitation, references and much scrutiny.

            Femdom is a very specialized interest, and the kink scene in general tends to be pretty polyamorous. To find suitable playmates involves quite a lot of experimentation and mingling. The urban west coast of the US has a really diverse population, and I sometimes make certain observations about the similarities and differences of different demographics.

            The fetish play I’ve shared with several Japanese-American women and one woman from Japan has been marked by a particular authenticity. An intuitive understanding of the subtlety and depth of power exchange that I’ve rarely noticed even in skilled professional Dommes.

            As I am not of Japanese ancestry, I would certainly not venture to speculate on any specific “race memory” in this regard. My comment was intended to point out that all of us are shaped by our ancestors decisions and some degree of cultural heritage. I would venture to guess that some inversion of the “demure” stereotype of Japanese women is in effect, as well as the archetype of vengeful she-devils I believe you referenced. In addition, I speculate that a society that never, as far as I know, bought into Christian sex-guilt, might produce the lack of inhibition I’ve noticed. I get the impression that Japanese sexual guilt is of a completely different variety, and don’t understand the details.

          • Iuwus

            Oh i see, you’re probably trying to talk about it with the wrong person lol. I have no experience of alternative fetish scenes in any country. I let the lid off my kink once and it didn’t really do much for my husband (I like knives it seems) so I’m leaving it alone. Honestly, it scared me a little bit too.

          • The Well Dressed Man

            Edgeplay isn’t for everyone :)

          • DeepCough

            It was a joke, Charlotte. And if it makes you feel any better, you can always pick up a copy of Mortal Kombat 9, play as Jade, and use her X-ray move to smash as many virtual balls as you want.

          • atlanticus

            Calm down, DeepCough. I know it’s a little scary to imagine that the bitches might start fantasizing about goin’-a-Bobbittin’, but you can rest assured that only 1 out of 100 or so, will actually go as far as to rape you with your own dick, afterward.

          • DeepCough

            My sincerest condolences to you and your dick.

          • atlanticus

            Do you miss it?

          • DeepCough

            Compared to mine, nothing of value was lost.

          • atlanticus

            Ah, but yours is lost. How do you think I got one?

          • DeepCough

            The same way every woman does: you go to the local dildo shop.

          • atlanticus

            You laugh now, but wait three weeks and see if you don’t come back clamoring to have me burned as a witch for making your penis “disappear”… O_O

          • DeepCough

            If I wanted to have you burned as a witch, I need only to compare your weight with that of a duck!

          • atlanticus
          • DeepCough

            Are you trying to say you are a big, fat, jaundiced woman with a duckface in every photo?

          • atlanticus

            I knew it wouldn’t be long before the predictable attacks on physical appearance… :P

            I ask you, do you honestly think I seem like the sort of woman who gives a shit what anyone thinks of how closely my body matches their culturally-defined perceptions of attractiveness?

            Well, even if I did, it’s not a problem for me. :D

          • Iuwus

            hey i happen to be a big fat jaundiced woman with a duckface, are you saying i’m not beautiful? :(

          • atlanticus

            Where did I even imply such a thing? :P

            If anything I just suggested the opposite by pointing out that perceptions of beauty are culturally defined.

            I mean, maybe you really should see a doctor about the jaundice, but you’re making the duck-face (your face can’t *really* get stuck that way…try relaxing the muscles) and as for being big and fat, maybe you can move to Mauritania and be a beauty queen.

          • DeepCough
          • atlanticus

            Yes. More slime, though.

          • Calypso_1

            & nematocysts?

          • atlanticus

            Yes, and more tentacles from which the nematocysts fire. Actually, I am a glaucus atlanticus. This thumbnail is my actual portrait.

          • Calypso_1

            …and now I am immersed into imaginal escapades of Neptuian androgyne liasions.

          • atlanticus

            Why don’t you come over some time when I’ve got nothin’ on but the seismic imaging driving the whales to beach themselves?

          • Calypso_1

            Must the Gatekeeper receive his toll or do you wish to enshrine the throes of the rebirthed oh Siren of the deep.

          • atlanticus

            Gatekeeper? But aren’t you the Keymaster?

          • Calypso_1

            As you wish.

          • atlanticus

            …Yeah…you win the utter bafflement game. O_o

          • The Well Dressed Man

            as opposed to the in sync sympatico game? there is no WDM, only SCHOOL!

          • atlanticus

            …WDM?

          • The Well Dressed Man
          • Guest

            Yes…actually, no joke, I’m dressing as Dana/Zuul for Halloween, but what is WDM? Weapons of Destruction of Mass?

          • The Well Dressed Man

            Hawt!
            Um, angular velocity times mass squared over volume?
            No idea what I’ll wear this year, but I always seem to be well dressed.
            Back to the books!

          • atlanticus

            “No idea what I’ll wear this year, but I always seem to be well dressed.”

            As your name implies. Whatchya studyin’?

          • The Well Dressed Man

            mechanical engineering undergrad. 3 weeks into fall semester it’s vectors vectors everywhere.

          • atlanticus

            Are you going to use your developing powers for good or evil? Extracting earth-blood or more like, building bridges? At any rate, good luck!

          • The Well Dressed Man

            In light of the cliche about good intentions, while mine are 100% honorable, they can be subdivided into 40% optimism, 40% altruism, and 20% self-interest.
            A mechanical engineer would design the tools used to build the bridge that the civil engineer designed. My trajectory is toward large scale sustainable energy systems. Resource extraction is getting ugly down here. I could really get into asteroid mining though!

          • The Well Dressed Man

            Well dressed for an engineering student is actually not saying much at all :) However, this thread just gave me this year’s costume idea: I shall go as the Well Dressed Man’s alter ego, the mask shouldn’t be difficult to find. Now to find a date in a blue dress!

          • Calypso_1

            game?
            that Game never ends. Metathetic semiurgy transmutes barriers for those desirous of competitive concourse.

          • atlanticus

            I wouldn’t call it competitive…but you have trumped my usual verbal fluidity…are you cheating, or are you dictionary?

          • Calypso_1

            Metathesis is a term I enjoy because of its properties both in linguistics & chemistry (and the combinatorics utilized in both fields to work with such). Semiurgy is a modernism you will find best used in the work of Baudrillard*. All of these were the most discrete terms for the interplay of my thoughts.

            I do find reading dictionaries & lexicons pleasurable.

            *In this case Crash, Sim~cra & Sim~tion,~ula.

          • atlanticus

            Nice.

            Did you know you are a “type” that I keep running into in my life? There are a lot more of “you” than I thought at first, though with slight variations…unless you actually *are* one of those that I knew, but you’re pretending to be someone else, which, I suppose, could very well be. *suspiciously eyes you*

            My apologies if this sounds stalk-y, but because I was curious if you were someone I knew, I scrolled through some of your previous comments and the parallels are many.

            I think you might be someone else, though; um, yourself.

          • Calypso_1

            I do not believe humans are as individual as we like to believe.

            That your self-presentation should resonate with a ‘type’ is true to nature. If our paths have crossed that would indeed be fascinating, but I am not aware of that being the case and my communication is not an attempt to further an unbeknownst past, concealed or otherwise. By all means read previous posts; it is public forum.

            Of our types, and this is true of many in the disinfo community, there is a certain concord (even between the most ardent disputants). To what degree one finds purpose in such connections there may be great joy and possibility of growth, even in the realization that you may not wish to attract or associate with such persons.

            As to my deletion in previous post: It provided me with the indication that you had taken note. As to its meaning, further initiation is your choice. Its function: The great web begat yet another means of transfer of sign & code between organisms. You may use that one.

          • atlanticus

            That’s the curious thing. If I attempt to describe this “type”, it would fit 90% of the visitors to this site, so there is something else that is particular to this “type” which I cannot quite put my finger on. It’s not your grandiloquence or personal interests, books you have read, or sense of humor, since these apply to others here…but those are somehow related.

            Hm. Yes.

          • Guest

            Hey…you deleted the mysterious gobble-de-gook “aeolididaAThushDOTai”!

            I’ve got “aeolidida”, but what about the rest? Would you mind explaining in small words to the “profane”?

          • Calypso_1

            [-_-]

            The mystery is transliteration:” @” and “.”

          • atlanticus

            Oh.

            -_- …just…gonna…sit over here and twiddle my thumbs now.

          • Guest

            Well, okay, what is meant by “aeolidida@hush.ai”? And why delete it? So many questions!

          • Iuwus

            that picture is fucking gorgeous.

          • DeepCough

            Why can’t you be a hot mutant, like Leela?

          • atlanticus

            Glaucus atlanticus are pretty cute…

          • DeepCough

            I don’t care for fish-people. It’s the smell.

          • atlanticus

            Sea-slug-people, thank you very much.

          • DeepCough

            In conclusion, when in doubt, cunt punch.

          • atlanticus

            When in doubt, force opponent to swallow his own testicles. And then the “rape with own dick”. Also, shit into open chest cavity.

          • Calypso_1

            Roleplay much?

          • atlanticus

            There are two ways to take that question and the answer to both is “not for a decade, at least”. :|

          • Calypso_1

            By way of either answer; it is good to have a non-competitive environment for fantasy to manifest.

          • DeepCough

            Don’t forget the reach-around.

          • Select Casey

            you posted a loaded picture. the size of the duck is the most obvious thing, and then when someone makes the obvious comment about the size, its the first thing you focus on. it seems you have more of a problem with it than anyone

          • Guest

            Okay, you obviously don’t understand what is going on here. If you read DeepCough’s former comment, he made a reference (possibly?) to a Monty Python scene from “The Holy Grail” about judging a woman as a witch by comparing her weight to that of a duck.

            I could have made some joke about turning his dick into a newt, but decided it wasn’t very funny and went with the next best thing: to suggest that he should compare my weight to a very large duck which now that I think about it, would assure that I was a witch, since in that scene they were claiming a woman was a witch if she weighed *less* than a duck…I somewhat mis-remembered the scene, but the joke was a fail anyway. To be honest, I’d kind of lost steam a few posts before that. *shrugs*

            Is it a crime to be un-funny? Maybe…I’d throw tomatoes at bad comics…

            What you are missing here is that I am not actually offended; I am playing. It amuses me to go back and forth about meaningless shit. I visit this site and participate in online conversations because it amuses me.

            If I was actually offended, I’d just stop talking. There is nothing online that is worthy of getting worked up over.

            You don’t have to explain to me the meanings of my own postings; you are being patronizing, dearie.

            As for this:

            “it seems you have more of a problem with it than anyone”

            I’m 110 lbs. and 5’8″. Yes, I have a problem; I have a problem gaining weight. I also have some guilt issues surrounding the fact that some of my friends (one in particular being a former eating disorder case) are not able to lose weight as easily as I can and feeling like I make them feel bad or less beautiful when I’m around them, when it’s really not my fault, but the aforementioned culturally-defined beauty standards which makes them feel shitty, no matter how much I tell her that I wish I had curves (at all) and that it’s actually not so fun to be a tit-less wonder (but that’s another issue I’ve also already tackled with a former boyfriend actually going as far as to suggest that I get implants–dropped that bastard like the sack of shit he is)…

            Yes, I do have some concerns about how culture perceives weight because I can see that this issue affects people I love.

          • Iuwus

            Tell them to smash their mirrors – banishing ritual.

          • Guest

            I suggested that, but she’d written “i hate you” all over it and had grown quite attached to her spells…

          • Select Casey

            Wow. Butthurt much?

          • atlanticus

            I bet you look just like a potato.

          • sonicbphuct

            you’ve got a german fore runner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1j_i136q40 – The title translates quite well, literally: “Sometimes women appreciate a little bit of hitting”. The video plays its twist at the end, and it occurred to me how odd it is that such a sentence can have such duality that goes unquestioned. i suspect the automatic understanding of the sentence lies in our programing.

          • atlanticus

            Ah, or like the video for Prodigy’s “Smack My Bitch Up”…

          • sonicbphuct

            I hadn’t seen Prodigy’s entry, however, I think the german one is better. I mean, sure, if we flip the roles, a woman could be as rapey as a man and it gets you thinking. But Die Ärzte has blood in theirs :-) And I think the pun (or double entendre) is funnier.

          • atlanticus

            “And I think the pun (or double entendre) is funnier.”

            Very true.

  • Ted Heistman

    Stop having sex with her. That’s usually what it comes down to. Crazy bitches only hit you if you sleep with them.

    • DeepCough

      You sure that’s not the opposite?

      • Ted Heistman

        Yep. Really sure.

        • DeepCough

          Well, in either case, bitches be crazy.

          • Ted Heistman

            Yep. That’s why I take feminism with a grain of salt. You find a good woman it means you are blessed. A lot crazy bitches out there that can’t control their temper. Men learn to control their tempers, many women never do and they get coddled for it.

          • atlanticus

            Also, why do you judge feminism by “crazy bitches”? You admitted that you think your experiences were with a woman who may have had an actual disorder.

            I don’t judge the validity of mens’ rights by the fact that some men are psychopathic killers/rapists/pedophiles/abusers…need I go on?

          • Rhoid Rager

            Me thinks it’s time for a toke and some Santana.

          • atlanticus

            Santana? That guy in Matchbox 20?

          • The Well Dressed Man

            I think Tura Satana would be a more appropriate distraction from this thread…

          • Matt Staggs

            This is my favorite comment ever.

          • DeepCough

            How did we get to feminism?

          • Ted Heistman

            Because not all women act like adults. Being treated like a child has obvious disadvantages but also advantages. Many women want it both ways.

          • atlanticus

            NOT ALL MEN ACT LIKE ADULTS. MANY MEN WANT IT BOTH WAYS.

            Maybe it was different in your generation (though I sincerely doubt it) but many of the “men-children” of Generation Y are everything you are claiming women are.

            I’d pm you a personal story, but I’ll just tell you that you seriously are not in a position to be knowledgeable about how many “men” treat women. You are ignorant.

          • Ted Heistman

            You know, I think you are right. You have convinced me, if women get upset and get violent, they all should get a free pass because its not their fault. Your level headed manner and sharp reasoning skills have convinced me.

            Thanks!

          • atlanticus

            No one buys that, Ted. Anyone with eyes can see that I was never arguing that women should get a free pass at violence. What I am arguing is that:

            1.) You can not judge women as a whole by the actions of a sick individual.

            2.) If an individual is sick, they need help, not punishment.

          • Ted Heistman

            BPD is a somewhat Bullshit label, like ADD but there is something to it. But I go the route of seeing everyone as a fellow human being instead of a label. People are responsible for their actions.

            I actually follow the golden rule more than self righteous do gooders who want to treat other likes infants in order to feel superior.

          • atlanticus

            Cop out. You just don’t want to respond to the fact that you just claimed I was unreasonable and I laid down my position, easily and consistent to my previous posts.

            Precisely how is self-righteous do-gooding an insult? I’m not hurt by that. Yes, I try to do good. I am not smug or superior, but I am convinced of what is right to my personal judgement: the only one sense of morality one can genuinely have.

            I do not infantilize my best friend; it’s called empathy and I care about her as a sister, not a child.

            You are lying. You do not judge people as individuals. You do judge people as labels.

            “Men learn to control their tempers, many women never do and they get coddled for it.”

            This is bullshit. Many men do NOT control their tempers. Many men do NOT suffer consequences. Especially in the South, where there *is* less protection by law for women from such men, many violent and sexual crimes go unreported.

            Of COURSE it is still true that many women never learn to control their tempers. But these are not mutually-exclusive concepts.

          • Ted Heistman

            Wow, you really see things from both sides. YOU ARE EMPATHIC! Thanks again! :)

          • atlanticus

            Tip, dear: don’t bother responding if you’re not going to actually debate. It just makes you look like a fool.

          • Andrew

            You don’t seem to be acting like an adult there.

          • Andrew

            I’m not convinced you’ve learned to control your own temper.

          • atlanticus

            And again, I ask you, how many abusive relationships have you been in, Ted?

            Do you genuinely think it is rational to judge half of the human race by your experiences with one member of that group? One, by the way, that YOU, yourself, have diagnosed as “Borderline”?

  • emperorreagan

    My impression is that many soldiers end up with a lot of really shitty women who prey on them just like all of the used car lots, cash advance, and bad tattoo shops that sit right at the exit to every military base.

  • DrDavidKelly

    My ex-wife used to hit me. I never hit her back because I’m a pacifist. All you can do is block and run. But as soon as the beatings started it’s over. It was the final straw in a relationship that had grown loveless. Leave them, call them a swear word and find a better person to share your life with. If you wanted to pursue it I’m sure you could charge them for assault.

    • Ted Heistman

      Yeah, IME they generally don’t learn. Guys that punch people everytime they get mad generally end up in prison, women like that often suffer zero consequences. Charging a woman with assault is actually not that easy.

      • DrDavidKelly

        I would like to think if you had visible injuries, as per the above case, you would have a case for assault regardless of gender. It has become a cultural norm tho for men to just ‘suck it up’ when it comes to violence perpetrated by women.

        • Ted Heistman

          I called the cops on a woman who assaulted me and my impression was they thought I was being a pussy. She spent the night in jail and no charges were filed. I had visible scratches. I was in a relationship with I women I believe had borderline personality disorder.

          • DrDavidKelly

            If it was a guy tho (who scratched you) the result probably would have been the same. It’s a detestable thought but I wouldn’t be surprised if some women think it’s actually ok to hit a guy – we’re tough after all. Not me tho – I’m allergic to pain!

          • Guest

            And you think sick people belong in jail? My best friend is Borderline and I understand how hard it is to convince people with this disorder to seek help, but help is what she needed.

            Maybe you weren’t in the position to help (not because of personal ability, but because of already being her partner), but jail isn’t where sick people get better.

            (p.s. I don’t mean a single night in jail; I mean whatever you’re getting at that you think she deserved, instead).

          • Ted Heistman

            Thanks for providing an example of consequence free coddling.

          • Ted Heistman

            I think people who have fallen into a pattern of completely losing their shit and physically agressing towards others whenever they get stressed out need to suffer consequences for it. Their uncnscious behavior needs to become conscious.

            Coddling them into a victim mentality is not the answer.

          • Andrew

            Coddling isn’t what teaches someone the victim role, abuse is.

          • Ted Heistman

            No idea what you are talking about.
            So what does coddling teach people? Personal responsibility for ones actions?

          • Andrew

            I don’t know what coddling teaches. I assume it teaches greed and disrespect for the feelings of others. My understanding of the victim role, on the other hand, is that it’s a way of surviving long term victimization, usually in childhood, that’s maladaptive once a person matures or escapes the abusive environment.

            Karpman claimed the Rescuer and Persecutor could be interchangeable with the Victim, but I’m sure you’ll agree there’s a big difference between spoiling and learned helplessness.

          • atlanticus

            The problem I have with Ted’s definition of coddling is that he seems to believe that a mentally-ill/emotionally-disturbed person getting professional help is “coddling” that person…

            I think that’s backwards. It’s like saying to someone with a broken leg that they need to “walk it off” and that they’re weak if they go to a doctor to get the bone set.

            Seeking professional help IS taking personal responsibility for one’s actions.

          • Andrew

            I’m not sure that’s Ted’s opinion of therapy, but I agree that cruelty and neglect are the causes of mental illnesses, not their cures. He is right, though, that learning to take responsibility is necessary to fighting one’s way out of mental illness. It’s absolutely necessary, but therapy of one sort or another is the best way for the mentally ill to learn those skills. Dialectical behavior therapy, for example, works well for those with borderline personality disorder.

            Those trapped in a victim mentality can easily mistake consequences for persecution, just like they can’t see their own power. There’s a reason prisons have such a high recidivism rate.

            But I don’t agree that those who are violent should be protected from consequences for their actions. Just that if the person is mentally ill, those consequences should be in a mental hospital rather than a prison.

          • Ted Heistman

            I don’t disagree with anything you said there.

          • atlanticus

            “But I don’t agree that those who are violent should be protected from consequences for their actions. Just that if the person is mentally ill, those consequences should be in a mental hospital rather than a prison.”

            Precisely. I don’t believe I suggested otherwise, but if you can show me where you think I have, please let me know. I don’t think I ever suggested that mental hospitals were spa vacation resorts…

          • Andrew

            At that point I was addressing Ted’s misinterpretation of what you wrote rather than what you actually wrote.

          • atlanticus

            Ah, thank you. I was wondering because if two people had read it that way, then maybe I’d worded it strangely…

          • Ted Heistman

            That is not what I said at all. First of all many people with personality disorders don’t seek professional help. Basically because they blame others, and are in denial that they have a problem.

            Putting up with abuse in a relationship is not therapy for the other person. Saying “there, there, I know you can’t help it” and covering it up and making excuses for them is not the answer.

            And for high functioning people that generally have there shit together, having them committed against their will into and institution, I don’t think is the answer either. I think people should have their rights respected as much as possible.

            So really what needs to happen is the person needs to wake up and become conscious of the fact that they have a problem and need help. I think getting arrested for assault would serve that purpose.

            But culturally its not accepted that women assault people. So what happens is the behavior is covered up and so it perpetuates.

            And I think often there is a continuum of violent women who may be full blown BPD on one end and slightly less on the other end, but these women get away with violence, because they are insulated from consequences by our culture.

          • atlanticus

            “Thanks for providing an example of consequence free coddling.”

            AND

            “BPD is a somewhat Bullshit label, like ADD but there is something to it.”

            Your words, not mine.

            Please read what you originally replied to again and tell me you can’t see how I interpret that as you saying that me telling my friend to get help is “coddling” her.

            I never suggested even once that you should “put up” with such behavior, or that “women should get a free pass” or any of the other bizarre suggestions you’ve come up with.

            You are reacting strongly because of your own emotional baggage surrounding this issue.

          • atlanticus

            That’s medieval.

          • Ted Heistman

            Whats Medieval?

          • atlanticus

            Your attitude towards mental health.

          • Calypso_1

            ‘Coddling’ is something we strictly avoid with BPD patients. If someone off the street saw the emotional interaction w/ these individuals it would seem quite cruel. It takes a long time to work past their incessant demands for attention & acting out before they can recognize the structured provision of basic needs that they were deprived of at a much earlier stage.
            Consequences for someone with BPD can be having to suffer through psychotic breaks to uncover underlying trauma.

          • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

            i always knew i was too nice to my old girlfriend :/

          • atlanticus

            Yeah, non-professional, DIY therapy is never a good idea…unless you’re going to make a movie about it (Saw 1 really wasn’t that bad…)

      • atlanticus

        How many abusive relationships have you been in?

  • Calypso_1

    In psych care staff receive far more injuries from the female patients than the males. Biting is quite annoying.

    • Eric_D_Read

      I did a job like that for one week. Fuck that.
      I can handle being punched, kicked, head butted, whatever. But being bit or, even worse, spat at brings out my inner barbarian.

      • Calypso_1

        Interestingly, I’ve found it is the environment that has allowed me to gain the greatest control of my inner barbarian.

        • Rhoid Rager

          Seeing extremes of human behaviour, you mean?

          • Calypso_1

            Not really.

            Their extremes are a product of a certain behavioral/disease state that brought them under my purview to begin with. I am rarely surprised by these.
            Within that environment I have far more control and responsive ability than they do. I have no true need for full
            access to an inner ‘savagery’.
            The ultimate aim of healing or asylum is clear and stems from beneficence. My choices have far reaching consequences for the patients, their families & communities.
            These must be made with a great deal of executive function & compassion for multiple parties.
            My personal ‘savagery’ becomes more a sensory signal than a reactant initiator or means of follow through. It allows for realistic assessments of risk. This works well in the immediate domain of interpersonal relations to gain awareness of aggression triggers and belay
            those elements in future encounters.
            In the abstract it allows me to strategically assess the person’s environment, background, strengths & weaknesses to develop a plan of care given the available resources.
            Thus overall, what was once a weapon has become a tool.

  • Eric_D_Read

    Hit her back. If the cops show up, you’re going to jail no matter what you do or don’t do.
    Bitch puts her hands on you? Knock her ass out as if she was a man, because feminism.

  • atlanticus

    *sigh* Okay…just like men who are abusive because their fathers were abusive, there is definitely a connection to women acting abusive because they saw their mothers’ act that way…

    Just like men who can learn to overcome their destructive patterns, um, you know…goose and gander blah blah blah…

    In short: regardless of gender, always check out the parents’ general behavior before committing long-term.

    • Hocketeer

      How very true, a lot of these bad traditions get passed down. Even if one can take the beatings and is the forgiving and mellow type, one wouldn’t want the kids to have to experience or deal with an adults bad habits.

      • Ted Heistman

        Hi Drew

        • Hocketeer

          Why not call me Viktor? It seems the guy who insulted you and consider crazy has read the same book about common human baseline culture, which I can warmly recommend. Anyway thanks for the heads up, tunneled my way thru to Dru and get where you are coming from, although it is quite far-fetched. Were I him, I would have called you a pervert and O at a McD’d you multiple times too…. “haha”

          • Ted Heistman

            Wait! What is the name of the Book? I want that Book!

          • Hocketeer

            “Sounding the Depths” by Viktor Grauer, highly speculative, but most awesome read.

          • Ted Heistman

            cool Thanks

          • Hocketeer

            From what I heard in the podcast, I guess you will enjoy it a lot.

          • Ted Heistman

            Cool, glad you liked the podcast. I found this guys blog and the blog says the book is right there for free online but I can’t find it!

            http://soundingthedepths.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html

          • Hocketeer

            The blog is the book, with listening examples etc., but since I can’t easily access blogspot here I ordered the paperback a while ago.

          • Ted Heistman

            OH, Ok. This guy sounds like Drew too! Drew totally ripped this guy off!

          • Hocketeer

            Grauer, the lady primatologist and Richard Katz from what I can discern, all great researchers and of course a heavy dose of paranoia.

          • Ted Heistman

            A lot of these same thoughts occurred to me already though.I knew our culture was fucked up and that indigenous people had problems too but were closer the point in which we took a wrong turn

          • Hocketeer

            I hear you man, somewhere along the way we went from co-operation to competition, maybe sth to do with squaring the shit out of nature… and other lousy attempts of control

          • Ted Heistman

            Yeah. I see a trend though of people wanting to work with nature instead of against it. Monsanto and small Organic Farms are both growing. People need to make a choice.

          • Hocketeer

            Luckily with a bit of heart, the choice is a simple one.

          • Ted Heistman

            All I can say is that walking barefoot in the woods and eating fresh grown veggies and eggs has been a joy!

          • Hocketeer

            Maybe you could write an article about it, the message is quite profound. Maybe if more musicians would read this they would distance themselves from competetive 3piece masturbation bands and realize music is something participatory. I also really like the idea that music is a sort of time machine :)

          • Ted Heistman

            (for those who don’t know Drew has astral or out of body sex with random chicks at McDonalds) “O at D” stands for “orgasm at a distance” anyway, from time to time he claims other dudes are trying to do that to him over the internet.

    • $804080

      You’re dealing in feminist myths from the 70s. The fact is that the most violent men were raised by single mothers. There was no father around in most cases. My father was not violent, but was harsh and used too much corporal punishment by today’s standards. He was a victim of a completely sadistic step-mother from age 7-14 years. Sadistic step mothers in the early 20th century were not rare; Peggy Lee, the famous singer had one that scalded her hands once. Feminism has long been a skipping record that amounts to a denial of reality and the persecution of men on every possible issue.

      • atlanticus

        Gee, really? That’s so strange, considering that I was born in the late 80′s and base my words on personal knowledge, not rhetoric.

        You didn’t even READ THE OTHER FUCKING HALF before going “Blah blah blah! Vagina-people are saying things that may or may not apply to me but I’m going to be offended anyway, waaa!”
        These comments are making me violent, so I’m just going to check out before I decide to bust a cap in yo’ bitch-ass.

        • Select Casey

          i find it amusing when feminists stoop to using gender loaded insults. Hardly helps you argue a rational case calling him a “Bitch-Ass”

          • atlanticus

            I suspect you wouldn’t like a lot about me or my personality. I don’t give a rat’s ass about rhetoric of any stripe. I fight for me and my friends, not YOU.

            I don’t know you, girl. That’s your business.

            You know, if you really want to get P.C. you could try to point out the imbalanced dynamics of a middle-class white girl using slang stereotypical of lower-class blacks.

            No, really, why is *this* not an issue for you, but gender is? Because we have a “black” president now? Because racism magically disappeared? Because hipsters made it okay to be pretend-racist? Because “lol, irony”?

          • Select Casey

            Thats an amusing string of non sequitur. Please carry on looking like a twat on the internet. how’s that for PC

            Oh, and by the way, I dont have a black president. I have a white as fuck useless gobshite Prime minister so fuck you and your PC politics

          • atlanticus

            It was not a non sequitur, you’re just too thick to understand the line of reasoning:

            You called me a feminist. I am not a “feminist” by your definition. You’re the sort of girl who thinks we’re all on Team Vagina and that I somehow owe you the time of day.

            You’re the one being “P.C.” you stupid bitch; that’s why I called you out on your hypocrisy. If I were violent, I would gladly cunt-punt you back to Stonehenge. (You see, gender equality!) :D

          • Yarglad

            Charlotte, you are overreacting and delusional. You can’t form a coherent argument and even resort to veiled threats of violence and you have to spin everything into some form of pretend bigotry.

            Stop playing the victim card and get your head out of your ass.

          • atlanticus

            Yarglad, you, like Select Casey, jumped into a conversation they didn’t understand from the beginning. If you can explain what exactly was wrong with my initial post, then by all means. But if not, eat a dick loony toon.

          • Yarglad

            “Vagina-people are saying things that may or may not apply to me”
            This. Immediately trying to imply opponent is misogynist.
            So fuck off.

          • atlanticus

            Um, yeah, because he is. Did you see what he replied to? What on earth is controversial about saying that women sometimes learn aggressive behaviors from their mothers the same way that men sometimes learn aggressive patterns from their fathers? If you can’t see this is an equal statement, then you are the delusional one, seeing man-haters where none exist.

            P.s. the “veiled threats of violence”–it’s a JOKE relating to the topic of the article, fucking duh.

          • atlanticus

            That was not the initial post. Please read again, then maybe you’ll understand why I assume that my “opponent” (your words) is a misogynist.

            Until you can explain precisely what you (and he, and she) think is wrong with the assertion that “women are sometimes violent because they saw their mothers act that way, just as men are sometimes violent because they saw their fathers act that way”, you can fuck yourself.

          • atlanticus

            Oh, what the hell? Double post, unintentional.

      • Andrew

        My father was violent, and was molested by my grandfather.

  • VaudeVillain

    Historically, take a couple blows and then hit her back.

    Historically, this usually brings an end to the physical altercation, somewhat dependent on the amount of force that was used in retaliation. I’ve had reasonable success with the “5th-grade deadarm” strike, closed fist square into the deltoid; not much potential for long-term or serious harm, temporarily hinders movement, demonstrates a relatively measured response and also indicates that more force can be used if the “fight” continues.

    Generally, I try to just walk away or put myself into a difficult-to-approach position well before things get violent regardless of anybody’s gender. Fighting isn’t really my thing, and I’m just good enough at it to know that I’m not good at all.

  • The Well Dressed Man

    What do I do when a woman hits me? Smile, thank her, and make a mental note to leave a good tip.

    But that’s just me. The best advice I’ve heard for men in more general such situations is to run away, as there’s no way to “win” that fight.

  • samlebon23

    Get rid of her. Period.

  • Henry Eugene

    I make it a point to never be in any kind of a relationship with any person who would behave like that with me. Also, the inverse, I try to keep true: I don’t want to have any kind of a relationship with anybody who expects that I’m going to hit her, and that this is just what dudes do. People like that are just full of shitty wiring, and are probably trying desperately to replace their fathers anyway. Why bother?

    Avoiding them is really not that hard. I mean, how the hell do you want to spend your time? Getting hit? That’s fucking awful. I’d rather drink alone. Just leave. Never come back.

    And above all, get it through your head that a person with an unstable personality, and who’s ‘had a hard time of it’, does not necessarily have more potential, and is not necessarily more creative, dynamic, deserving, and full of lust for life than somebody else who just doesn’t lose their shit when their feelings become involved. It’s not the difference between who’s truly alive, and who’s boring. That’s a false binary, and is actually a terrible trope enforced in our popular culture by stupid people who think that that’s What Passion Is (think Captain Kirk, who thinks with his dick and sets it to ‘stun’ in every Star Trek movie).

    God Damn I hate stupid people. Just don’t have kids. Just don’t do it. It will make leaving Sluggo so much easier.

  • Henry Eugene

    I make it a point to never be in any kind of a relationship with any person who would behave like that with me. Also, the inverse, I try to keep true: I don’t want to have any kind of a relationship with anybody who expects that I’m going to hit her, and that this is just what dudes do. People like that are just full of shitty wiring, and are probably trying desperately to replace their fathers anyway.

    Avoiding them is really not that hard. I mean, how the hell do you want to spend your time? Getting hit? That’s awful. Just leave. Never come back.

    And above all, get it through your head that a person with an unstable personality, and who’s had a hard time of it, does not necessarily have more potential, and is not necessarily more creative, dynamic, deserving, and full of lust for life than somebody else who just doesn’t lose their shit when their feelings become involved. It’s not the difference between who’s truly alive, and who’s boring. That’s a false binary, and is actually a terrible trope enforced in our popular culture by stupid people who think that that’s What Passion Is.

    • atlanticus

      There is sometimes a correlation, though. Of the most creative people I know, most of them are completely fucked in the head for one reason or another…then again, I also know some wonderfully creative people who are completely sane, nice, shit-together people, with loving parents and stable relationships.

      There are generally more people in the former category than the latter, but maybe that has more to do with the fact that I like to hang around people who wear a lot of black and listen to discordant music…I might have a skewed sample, here…

  • fl1014

    I was taught to treat every girl / women as a lady whether she acted like one or not …………If they didn’t act like a lady then get away from them as fast as possible. … (admittedly the definition of a lady was different not long ago ………………. ..) .

  • Hoarfraust

    I’m sensing “headbutt her” isn’t the right answer. Damn I suck at this game!

  • tesmith47

    dont get mad, get even SUE!!!

    • Matt Staggs

      You don’t need a criminal attorney. You need a CRIMINAL attorney!

  • Mylo_Abacus

    Woman hits you: Bamm! Now you has been turned into all kinds of somebody. Then she walks among the hidden camera crew and starts singing, “Et tu, Brutus?” And I’m like, … acorns.

    It’s got to be all about acorns.

    I’d be of persuasion that we need self-defense if it wasn’t for limitation of screen media.

    When a woman hits me, I usually jump to another branch. Then I climb up the tree, go out on a limb and drop down to tackle her by surprise.

    She has scurried off by then anyway.

    Wait, women don’t hit me; I try to be nice to them … all acorns and nuts

  • sonicbphuct

    “What do you do when a woman hits you?” – wait until it’s done and then pay as agreed. Otherwise it’s just stealing.

  • Jeff Sheldrake

    Just more of the same feminist world we live in, she claims domestic violence, loads of single mothers, fatherless kids roaming the streets, high benefits bills, wow, this is the Nirvana the 60s feminists fought so hard for.

  • Simon Selvfed

    Then you’re neither a parent nor very deductive.

  • Guest

    Tried the first one in high school on a friend. We started dating afterwards.
    I still regret it.

  • Guest
  • gustave courbet

    Somebody needs a hug