Magick, Aliens, and Skydiving: an In-Depth Interview with PuZuZu Ba’al

those-who-from-heaven-earth-came-puzuzu-baal-paperback-cover-artToday I’m interviewing PuZuZu Ba’al, and we are mostly going to be talking about his website “spellsandmagic.com” along with his experiences with alien life. To kick things off, other than Spells And Magic, do you want to talk a bit about yourself and your hobbies?

Myself now or… well to summarize it all up I was a little military brat and lived in quite a few different states and visited a few different countries in Europe. Started out in a mainstream religion; indoctrinated into the same mainstream religious stuff that most people are at a young age. Started into the occult probably around 16 or 17. My hobbies and stuff as far as now would be skydiving because when my dad was dying at the age of 50 (cancer, induced by Agent Orange) he told me, “Why don’t you do anything adventurous?” So I got into skydiving. I love it because it makes me feel like I have more of an appreciation for life when I do it. It makes me feel like I’m “up there” with the angelic beings; not that they’re actually flying around, they could be right next to me on the ground… anyway I really enjoy that. As far as the stuff I do now, the only things that interest me other than skydiving are anything that is adventurous and usually I prefer it be somewhere into the unknown. I really like the occult because I’m opening new doors and I really don’t know what’s behind door number one or two or three. It may be bad, it may be good, but it’s worth the risk to me; you know that. And I don’t do it just for the adrenaline, it’s not just because I wanna do crazy shit. It’s because it is a spiritual adventure.

[On to SpellsAndMagic]

In 1995 I started SpellsAndMagic because I got sick of all the books I had read. They were filled with so much theosophical crap. I’m no genius but it was so over my head and really didn’t teach me anything. Most of the books really didn’t tell you how to do things in details or in simple terms, it was mostly very vague. Many were overkill on the “fasting for 9 days” or staying abstinent from sex for this many days. Like, “Really, I have to memorize 50 Hebrew god names??” and so I made a website that would be in simpleton terms. I don’t try to have proper grammar, I make it so that it sounds as [though the reader] and I are talking right now. As far as other hobbies I like UFO hunting and finding other spiritual anomalies and get them to appear on camera; seeing something is one thing but being able to take a picture and show [it to people] will get them to say “That guy’s been conjuring up some weird shit” so having pictures is a huge plus for me.

Yeah, the pictures in your book and on your website are truly unique; you don’t see those anywhere else. How old is your website again, you said 1995?

In 1995 I started it, and I didn’t own a domain. I called it Spells and Magic but I didn’t own a domain for the first year. I had one of those freebie websites. But then I started to develop a little bit of a following, people were interested, so I went ahead and got the domain “spellsandmagic.com”. It was kinda funny, at first I kept getting emails from people saying that I shouldn’t reveal the information about conjuring spirits and stuff but you can go out and buy a book with that information at a metaphysical book store so fucking leave me alone. I got a bit of that for the first couple years but eventually they started leaving me alone.

Who was your intended audience on the site when you first started, and who actually ended up being your audience – or were they the same?

I’d say they’re the same. My intended audience would be people like me, people searching for answers on how to do things in the occult and metaphysics, be it remembering your dreams, conjuring a spirit, or a spell. I just wanted normal people who were interested in metaphysics or the occult [to read my articles] so they didn’t have to read a hundred books filled with mumbo jumbo when I could get down, even on a short page, a lot of information. “This is how you do it” and cut to the chase. I started out targeting an audience of late teens to early twenties who had just gotten out of an indoctrination system, and atheists “searching for answers”.

Did the audience change a lot as the years went on?

I started getting a lot of old people too, and young people. Every once in a while I get letters of thanks from people and they say exactly what I like to hear: “Your website, it’s just like you’re talking to me when I read it.” And that makes me happy because I made the website so it sounds like I’m talking to them. Some of my pages even say “Don’t try to correct my grammar because I am not worried about it”. Then I have some people – angry, young people – that just write me and say “Fuck you, you fucking fuck” and I write back and say “Aw look another angry teenager, what, did your parents not pay enough attention to you, or what’s the matter?” Or they’ll write me and they’ll say, “The sigils that you put on that page should be in a different color” and I will tell them, “In any type of magick, nothing is written in stone” (well yes, some things are literally written in stone) meaning magick has never been a matter of “this is how it has to be done”. Every grimoire has different methods; different magick circles with different names and stuff. That shows me that each person took into their own hands how they thought it should be done. [Nothing] has to be done one way, or be one color, or [be conjured] on a specific day; you can conjure them any damned day of the week that you want. “Only on Sunday at 7 o’clock” the hour of Venus… I don’t believe that any more and the reason for that [is a conversation that I had with] Enlil one time. You know that Enlil was various gods, well at one time he was known as the Roman god Jupiter; I was trying to make one of my talismans for Jupiter and [Enlil] said, “I don’t have much to do with Jupiter any more. Some of my energies are stranded there (and in many other places) that I was at at one time, but my energies are not really strong there anymore.” So therefore, to use a specific entity that may be in a grimoire and is supposedly associated with Jupiter, well, that entity may no longer have anything to do with that planet any more.

Yeah; entities evolve the way that we all do. Let’s talk about that for a little bit. As I was on the site over the years I noticed more conversation about the entities, Enki and Enlil. What is your relationship with those deities? What are they, how did you come to be interested in them, and what is it like dealing with them on a daily basis?

Well I first started out with making a bond with Enlil and I felt a loyalty to him and kinda plegde my allegiance to him. Just telling him that he had my allegiance and my loyalty as a friend. And I knew his brother Enki, and I had other friends (really hot girls) who were totally into Enki. They were really into him though they had never communicated with him. I said, “Well I have to choose a side, so I choose Enlil” and I was afraid to contact Enki because I was afraid I’d piss off Enlil. At the time I had read [various articles and books] that said the two were at odds. Enlil told me, eventually, that he and his brother were very close and had resolved their disputes. “We’ve fought just like any brother or sister would, but for the most part we are very close.” He continued, “Neither one of us are jealous as far as who you want to contact. You’re more than welcome to contact Enki; neither one of us will get mad or irritated at you for doing so”. That’s when I decided to contact Enki. I don’t think that I actually called to him, he just showed up one night in my front yard. He showed up [in the form of] a white lizard/scorpion looking thing. That’s when I asked who it was, found out it was him, and started making more contact with him. He explained to me that I had been in contact with him throughout many other lifetimes and that it was time to start making contact again. The difference between [Enki and Enlil] is that Enlil is very stern. He does have a sense of humor, but he’s very stern and isn’t vain. His brother has a little bit of vanity, only because he deals with humans more. Enlil doesn’t really deal with humans much. Enki does because he is the creator of our race, [though] I like them both equally. Whether they are telling me the truth all the time or not, I do not know any more than you know that I am telling you the truth. Either one of us could be lying about everything. All I can do is ask questions and relay those same answers to my friends and followers. Whether they’re telling me the truth or not, I don’t know; maybe they have a darker agenda, or maybe they have a very good agenda. I don’t know. I really won’t know until I’m on the other side and can see more. My personal beliefs are that for the most part they tell me the truth but they don’t give out all the information that I want. They could still be holding stuff back that I want to know. Not lying, just holding [information] back.

Relationships with entities, I think, are very interesting. More than anything what matters regardless of whether they are telling us the truth is that they inspire thought in us, and different manners of thinking. That alone makes those experiences worth it in my opinion. Moving on from that, though, for a lot of kids your website was our first taste of the occult and things-otherworldly. What would be the advice that you’d give to modern-day newcomers just starting their journey with no prior experience in the occult?

I would have them read every book you can, even if it’s filled with theosophical crap. Read everything you can and keep an open mind. Never stick with something, never label yourself into one system of beliefs. When you limit yourself to one system, even if it’s Wicca, you are limiting yourself to that system’s understandings [as opposed to being] open to universal ideas. Keep an open mind, study everything you can, and do not lock yourself into one belief-system.

(We go on discussing religious labels and their uses/misuses. Eventually PuZuZu brings up the first occult book he had ever bought.)

When I went into a book store in the mall and bought my first occult book, it was the Necronomicon. I don’t know why; something in me took me straight to the occult section [and I bought] the Necronomicon. Even though it’s a fake grimoire, the entities in it are very real. For some reason I connected with that, and that’s where Enki/Enlil began in my life. I was trying to call to both of them without even knowing it.

What is your experience with combining spiritual practice with hallucinogens?

My advice, if you plan on combining [the two], is to use some form of protection. Doing an invocation to Archangel Michael, or the Lesser Banishing of the Pentagram, or even strengthening your aura. When you [use hallucinogens] you are opening yourself up to entities that want to step in. My experiences with Enlil and Enki were, in those days, dark energies. It wasn’t until later in life when I started staying in the “light” and started calling to them with light-energies. Even archangels can be welcomed with the dark as well as the light. Depending on your own nature you may get possessed, depending on how you think and act in life as to what you might attract in your own body. Even if you want to sit back and travel into the cosmos I recommend some form of ritual protection to keep [baneful] energies away unless you want to be involved in darker energies. [My experience with Enlil] while on Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds brought Enlil further into the picture. And if everything is a hologram anyways, I believe that I was communicating with him on another level/dimension. Protection is the biggest key, I think.

Back in the days when myspace was the dominant social network, I saw a lot of strange and troubled people (teenagers mostly) saying some weird shit on your page; the kind of people who wanted you to teach them how to shoot flames out of their dickholes, basically.

That’s fucking funny that you say that because I swear to god I have a list that I saved for several years, of emails that I got from people asking me how to “shoot fire out of my dickhole” and stuff like that. And I’d tell them, “Quit watching Charmed, Harry Potter, and whatnot. Those are great series, but it’s Hollywood and not anything like real magick.” That’s pretty darn hilarious, though, because I used to get lots and lots of that. Those people think that what they see on TV is how the occult works. Some people though, would tell me that they had played with a Ouija board and had entities in their homes that they could not get rid of. My advice was to invoke Archangel Michael. For the most part the people who were serious about it were able to fix their problems by calling on Michael. Quite a few interesting emails, though.

I’ve been curious, because of the popularity of your website I have wondered what sort of interesting things have happened to you here in the physical realm of life. What are the best and worst things that have happened to you in your personal life that have happened to you as a direct result of being an administrator of the website?

On the positive side, it has created an income for me. I’m not rich… well I shouldn’t say that; I’m extremely wealthy, lots of these million dollar bills laying around my house for the purpose of money-manifestation. My website has created an income mainly through the google ads. For many years I didn’t want to put the ads on my page but I had to say that I want to stay alive and make a living so I put them on there and started generating an income. And of course, I’ve started being affiliates with Amazon. They sell my books and I advertise for them. It gives me satisfaction when people write me and say that they have been on my website for years and that it’s really helped them. I don’t get a lot of negativity, except for the occasional angry person who sends me blasphemies and anger. And dating. With women if I tell them right off the bat [about my website] they run. I’m not going to pretend to be something that I’m not. Though I don’t tend to tell women about my interests unless I notice that they’re open-minded. Not a whole lot of the negative; mostly good stuff.

Well good, that’s nice to hear. It’s definitely true, at least for me, that your website sparked a lot of personal interest in the occult so thank you for that. (We go on to discuss a website that is particularly focused on spells.)

On my site, I’ll try to write in my own words how to do things instead of creating a forum. I do have a page for submitting your own spells because I don’t really give a crap about spells to be honest. I find that spells are not nearly as effective as conjuring an entity in front of you to communicate with you to give you possible information about the universe and whatnot. [I’m not interested] in making a spell for somebody to fall in love with you, or to make somebody crap their pants in class; I’m interested in learning the answers to the universe. I really don’t care about spells even though that’s how my site started. I’m more interested in High Magic and being able to speak with entities and learning the answers of the universe.

Ever since I can remember, basically since the first time that I ever visited your page, the “Black Magic” page linked to the old gif of a gray kitten with a rifle. While that was hilarious, what prompted you to re-add the black magick page?

When I speak to Enlil or Enki, they tell me that I’ve already mastered the darkness and now [I’m] trying to master the light (throughout all of my lifetimes). “There is no reason to be afraid of any dark entity, none of them will harm you in your present position compared to somebody with no spiritual background.” In this environment, in this dimension, darkness has to be here along with the light for evolution and learning to occur. So I decided that I’d put the black magick spells back. I had them on the site years ago, and I thought about writing a book on extreme black magick. I stopped, because I didn’t want to put those dark energies out there. I wanted to do something more positive. I put them back up though because I decided that I wanted [the site] to be like a pistol: You can buy my pistol and use it to kill somebody, or you can use it for protection and for positive things. I put that information out there because I want to keep my website balanced. I want the site to look spooky, but I’m adding a lot more spiritual pages and am trying to keep the site balanced. I’m gonna keep adding dark stuff though I want to focus on things like ascension and raising vibration. I’m trying to add a page at least once every other week.

What is your opinion on the use of Black Magick or forceful magick; forcing somebody to love you or similarly manipulative spells?

Love spells, I tell people right up that I don’t believe it’s bad to force somebody to love you. You may be forcing them to do something against their will, but [in the case of love spells] that’s like me saying “Hey Donny, I’m forcing you to take this 10,000-dollar bill and stick it in your pocket.” You’re forcing people to experience one of the greatest things in the universe which is Love. So I don’t really think about it as a bad thing, but I tell them that in the back of your mind you may not be happy knowing that [the person whom the spell is directed at] might not really have loved you otherwise. As far as using spells for money, that’s great as long as you’re not harming somebody in the process. The biggest key is visualizing where that money comes from so that you don’t end up with somebody in your family dying and you getting the inheritance. When it comes to [baneful] magick, I tell people that revenge is rarely worthwhile; is it really worth having more chaos come back at you? If somebody mugged your mother, and you go and shoot that person, it may be justified but you’d go to prison. In [life] I believe it’s best to forgive and move forward. It’s not good to have that monkey on your back, that hatred. I really stress to [people] that they do not need to use black magic. It’s really best to let go and move on instead of going with that anger. But [the information] is there and it’s their choice whether they want to use it.

I really enjoy these perspectives of yours, I would have thought after reading your site for so many years that I’d have heard it all from you.

I try to tell people the ups and downs of what they’re gonna do. A lot of people come to me wanting their ex-lovers back. That’s the main thing that I get from people every week. They’ve spent thousands of dollars on various con-artists and they come to me; I flat out tell them, “I don’t want your money. I’m not gonna do spells for you, and quit wasting your money. Most love spells do not work to get your ex-lover back.” They work for a new lover, but I think that the main reason love spells don’t bring back old lovers is probably because the universe and/or one’s own spirit guides don’t want that person moving backwards on their path. They want them moving forward. As soon as you let go and ask for a new lover in your life you can get past that limbo. [Most people] don’t care though, they’d literally sell their soul to get their ex-lover back… which would probably make them more miserable than they could ever be, yearning for their ex-lovers.

Well, that concludes my main questions. Is there anything else you’d like to say to the readers over at Disinfo? The audience here consists of (but is not limited to) occultists, punks, atheists, and totally awesome people in general.

Well I do have something for [those whom identify as] atheists: I understand that religion may have left a bad taste in your mouth, but to [disregard] the idea of high-powers is denying your own god-self. I believe that you are a god, and I am a god, and we are the creators of our own universe. I believe that you and I, every animal, every plant, everything, is a part of a whole. Part of a god-energy. It’s not some old man sitting on a throne. To deny the concept of “god” is to deny the god within us all, and I think a lot of atheists don’t understand that concept since it probably hasn’t been run by them enough for them to understand it. They are denying their own god-self and [holding their potential] back, though. As far as my website, there will be many more pages. There is a list of things that I want to write about on different subjects. My next book, though I haven’t titled it yet, will all be about raising one’s vibrations, building the body of light, and trying to ascend to higher dimensions.

After some flattering comments on my last article, our conversation came to a close; every conversation with this man lends an air of importance and lightheartedness which I can’t help but appreciate. What do you think, disinfonauts? Have you come across his site in the past? Any other interesting people that you’d recommend speaking with? If you’re interested in PuZuZu’s websites, check him out at “spellsandmagic.com” where you’ll also find a link to his insanely unique website of UFO anomalies.

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  • Hudson Atwell

    awesome story thank ya

  • jasonpaulhayes

    You cant defy the laws of tradition without taking a bit of flack. Great article and blessed be.

    http://www.luckymojo.com

    • oneironauticus

      Do you ever listen to the podcast? Miss Yronwode is an interesting lady.

      • jasonpaulhayes

        Oh yeah, I rarely have time to tune in with all the podcasts out there but shes great and a true master.

        The shops only a stones throw away from my home. They had a open position there recently, I should have applied but didn’t.

        • oneironauticus

          You should have :P. There’s a local shop here from someone who has completed her classes…I’ve yet to visit, since I have some botanica shops to work through, first…

          • jasonpaulhayes

            Small World… and you’re right, I should have applied but didn’t think I had time to do all the course work at the time so I encouraged a few friends to inquire.

          • Calypso_1

            sounds like ye be conjurin

          • Jin The Ninja

            it’s so odd, i’ve been working the hard yards with 7days lately. reading lots of newish things, spending lots of time on the lucky mojo forum, reading many more psalms than i did in catholic school- and coincidentally it’s being discussed here. praise be to st. expedite, your pound cake is on it’s way.

          • Calypso_1

            …well now. who knows what greater workings are at hand.
            the convergence of the Mysteries & cyberspace has always seemed a natural habitus.

          • oneironauticus

            More like sounds like I be an agnostic, ADD, dabbler…

          • Calypso_1

            I believe we are all dabblers whether we know it or not. These functions have largely been appropriated and disempowered to level of curios, menageries, scraps of memory. The apothecary remnants of the toilette, scent and accessory, gazing mirror, cleansing water; all these still harken to a more intimate encounter and gesture of emphemera.

            I became intrigued with the Curandero’s Mesa while studying medical anthropology. The ability to encapsulate and navigate a psychic space seems a natural evolution of childhood play. Creating your own world of symbols, imbuing objects with the potencies of internal realities, this allows for all of the imaginal work found in other traditions such as archetypal psychology.

            It has been these realms that the priesthoods have fought so hard to control to prevent individual authority and passage. That is one aspect of the syncretic American systems I love so much. There is no real need for a penultimate representation of truth – only the very human range of needs and desires and a reaching into Mystery.

    • echar

      Holy hand grenade! The postage for that site is expensive.

  • James Thon

    I loved this interview. What a world we would have if everyone could view the world this way. Will we ever get there? Evolving is a lot of work.

  • Juan

    Thanks for running this. I’ll have to check out the site.

  • DonovanCagliero

    Ughhhhhhh a couple of websites ripped off the article, and a few posters on facebook were posting links to the ripoffs. Fun, fun, fun.

  • GReaperEx

    LoL, atheists have no place in here. Such a liar.