Stay Calm & Get Stoned: Trans Woman Confronts Bigot Councilman

Pamela Raintree – Hero

Pamela Raintree is a trans woman from Shreveport, La. who stood before Ron Webb – a city councilman who was trying to repeal an anti-discrimination ordinance for LGBT citizens – and dared him to stone her after quoting scripture at him:

So Raintree stood before Webb, lifting up her rock, and said, “Leviticus 20:13 states: ‘If a man lie also with mankind as he lieth with a woman, they shall surely put him to death.’ I brought the first stone, Mr. Webb, in case that your Bible talk isn’t just a smoke screen for personal prejudices.”

Bravo, Ms. Raintree, for daring the fervency of this bigot’s faith! And the look on Webb’s face when he realizes that his bluff has been called? Brilliant! This could be a great tactic for other activists to use in upcoming court cases that deal with similar issues…am kinda surprised that no one else thought to do so before now.

As for the rock? “Raintree said she’s donated the rock to the local ACLU, which collects historical artifacts.”

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  • American Cannibal

    You go, girl!

  • Ted Heistman

    Its actually not taught in Fundamental Baptist Theological Seminaries, for example, that everything in the Old Testament is meant to be taken literally, or that laws in Leviticus for example apply to Christians. So this idea that Christian Fundamentalists are hypocrites for not eating Kosher and dressing like Orthodox Jews doesn’t hit home as much as some people may think.

    The idea is that these passages in Leviticus illustrate God’s attitude towards homosexuality. It also has to do with Paul in Romans and John in Revelation condemning homosexuality.

    Most fundamentalists are dispensationalists, which means they don’t believe Christians are beholden to Old Testament Law and see Israel and the Church as being separate, entities.

    The more dangerous group are the Dominionists who think the Church is Israel and that its task is to create a Theocracy.

    Not that anyone cares, but I just thought I would point out why the argument isn’t really effective.

    • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

      “…why the argument isn’t -logically- isn’t really effective” Fixed this for you.
      It still worked though; it was effective sans logic.

      • Ted Heistman

        Well, its effective the same way Ken Ham’s arguments are effective. In this case igorance of the Bible and Theology on the part of the audience.

        This Webb, guy was probably simply pandering to Fundamentalists, so that is why it was effective in that sense. But this meme of “If you believe the Bible why do you eat lobster? Why do you wear mixed fabrics?” has been going around for a while and its seen as this big touche’ but its really not.

        • echar

          If it shushes them, then it can be seen as a touche, considering what buzz had to say. If they are not familiar with the word of God, then what good is their “faith”?

          • echar

            Or familiarity with the message of Jesus of Christ?

        • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

          Well, the accusations of cherry picking and faith of convenience is worthwhile in one sense…because the same lack of theological knowledge that makes so many Christians easily gulled by hucksters and political hacks…is a two edged sword that makes them equally vulnerable to very blunt reminders about hypocrisy. It seems to be working…since the US is developing a larger and stronger atheist movement, and much more significant quantity of people who simply want no part of anything as silly as Fundamentalism from any faith. Literally, the awareness of how false the narratives are as they emerge from churches is driving people to walk away and wash their hands of organized faith. I think its for the better in the end…in part because religions have long needed to divorce themselves from the gutter of the Bronze Age and try to represent something more relevant…and crashing numbers will do a lot more to motivate change than any collection of polite speeches full of deep serious facts.

          • Ted Heistman

            It started off pretty simple though:
            1. Love God
            2. Love your neighbor

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            Always been a fan of Jesus…the accounts of his teachings add up to one of the most radical shift of spiritual priorities since Buddha. It’s the reason I quip : “I recommend the practice of Christianity. In particular, I recommend it to Christians, who seem to desperately need the extra practice.” The core message is transcendent in its simplicity and beauty, if only it were heard more often.

          • Ted Heistman

            I agree. I also appreciate the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna transliterated into Greek is Christos, which is also Christ.

          • Virtually Yours

            “Krishna transliterated into Greek is Christos, which is also Christ” Interesting! And yet, not at all surprising. It seems like there are few things about Christ’s mythology which are unique: from the virgin birth and the resurrection to all of the various miracles…his story reads like a glorified amalgamation of numerous prior deities. Which isn’t to say that Jeebs himself wasn’t a real person. I like to think of him as a hippie ahead of his time…just a few years too early for Woodstock. His message of peace and love was probably genuine but after his death they deified him, created a slick back-story, and then stamped a logo on it…packaged and printed, and still a best-seller to this day.

          • Virtually Yours

            Reminds me of that Gandhi quote: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Poor Jeebs…he must roll over in his grave every time some bigot rapes his name in order to justify their prejudices :-(

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            I know. I’ve often lamented the sad fact that even the most ardent and devout satanist, firm in his hatred of Christianity, has likely never openly defied the teachings of Christ anywhere near as vitriolically as the average American evangelical or fundamentalist.

          • Virtually Yours

            Ain’t it da twoof :-(

          • Ted Heistman

            Well its all relative. The British Exploited the people in India, but they also stopped them from burning women alive.

    • BuzzCoastin

      the problem is
      you know more about their religion than they do
      they only have faith
      which obviates the need for them to actually know
      what they profess to believe

      • Ted Heistman

        True. Good point. Thinking about Theology is probably how the Puritians became Unitarians. Its probably not recommended.

        • Ted Heistman

          But still, though, a lot of this stuff has been worked out already, by Theologians of the past. In terms of questions of why don’t Christians follow the OT and wy the OT is not the law of the land. John Calvin, Martin Luther etc. all wrestled with this stuff. I think their conclusions were mostly wrong. That is why European countries have State Churches. Separation of Church and State is very American I mean originally Baptists were for the seperation of Church and State. That’s because they were in the minority and persecuted by the State Churches.

          Its only recently that all these Baptists have come out against it.

          • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

            As Evangelicals have purchased political power, the prevailing belief is that they now are more hindered by that wall of separation than they are helped. Having become the most vocal of US faith branches, there seems to be a disconnect from history and tradition…mostly with the idea of making a power grab at the expense of the old protections that once guarded them. And more’s the pity…because that protection is still needed more than ever when a single faith acquires too much political clout. All that has ever prevented the tit for tat bloodshed between faiths in this country has been a firm law of the land that placed a DMZ between state and church. We run a terrible risk if that tradition crumbles or is thoroughly breached.

        • Andrew

          You say that like Puritans becoming Unitarians is a bad thing.

          • Ted Heistman

            I don’t think that. I am descended from Puritans and my Mom is Unitarian.

          • Virtually Yours

            No, he’s saying it from the Puritans point of view…they already lost enough members from their own congregations, as a result of peeps who dug too deeply into the neurotic nether realms of their own beliefs, and so now it is probably generally discouraged: “Just do what we tell you and please, don’t over-think it…”

          • Ted Heistman

            Right, exactly.

    • echar

      It seems that Martin Luther’s legacy is a win in some sense, and a fail in some sense.

    • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

      Its worth noting that even Paul’s passages and letters refer, in older translations, to the habit of pederasty, which has slowly been recast and translated as simply any homosexual act. I think almost all of us (except maybe a few closeted republicans who might see it as free market economics at work) today would agree with Paul that when he addressed church leaders who still participated in the habit of purchasing children into sex slavery in exchange for an education, it was wrong. So Paul’s discontent with the unsavory habits of the times were completely valid…but the notion that this builds a long term case against consensual adults and homosexuality in general is as unsustainable as the fallacious re-spun sins of Sodom…which were being inhospitable and violent thieves, not being ‘gay rapists’.

      But we’re both in the same boat. BuzzCoastin is right…we can study biblical history and build a level of literacy regarding context all we like…they don’t really care a damn. It isn’t about thought, it’s about feeling, at least for Fundies. They will pluck and cherry pick to their hearts content, devoid of context, and the rest of us wind up living with the ridiculous fallout.

      • Ted Heistman

        Yeah, its too bad though because their are a lot of really cool progressive minded Christians, in the mainline denominations and even the Roman Catholic Church. Lots of left wing political activist nuns out there. Christian Anarchists too.

  • Ellen Joyce

    It’s so nice to see some effective confrontational tactics!

  • Audio7

    Mr Webb would have a problem casting the first stone since his knuckles drag the ground.

  • BuzzCoastin

    transgender in Louisiana
    even Blacks have a better shot at acceptance

  • Ted Heistman

    Basically, based on their own Theological beliefs, if they were to be consistent, as far as Evangelicals/Fundamentalists could go is to say that they don’t want to marry gay couples in their churches. Which as far as I know, nobody is asking them to.

  • Jason Limbert

    Hmmm. That was good

  • echar

    Seeya later sinners…

    • Virtually Yours

      I still crack up every time that woman says: “Obama-nation!”

      • echar

        It cracks me up that Jack Black is Jesus.

        • Virtually Yours

          He’s perfect! A part of me really wants them to turn it into a full-fledged Broadway musical, though it would probably wear thin rather quickly unless the writing was spot-on…

          • echar

            It’s beautiful as is.

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