Christian Metal Band Catches Hell After Releasing Homophobic Single

Christian metal band Reformers (No “the”, just “Reformers”.) are catching all kinds of hell after releasing a culturally tone-deaf single railing against homosexuality titled “Abomination”. With a title referencing Leviticus and lyrics advising listeners that “tolerance is hate” and warning them that they’ll be called bigots if they judge “twisted love” it’s hard to imagine that it’s about anything else, but lead singer Andrew Backlin is doing a lot of back-pedaling.

In a video posted to the band’s Facebook page, Backlin has said that the song isn’t “singling out homosexuals” and that the song is against all “sin.” He also said that he loves everyone and has no hate in his heart. Here’s the video with lyrics. Following the jump you can watch Backlin’s explanation. See what you think.

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  • http://lmgtfy.com/ jasonpaulhayes

    Billy Connolly on Christian Rock’n’Roll… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUSwLWh5Huk

    • Echar Lailoken

      Man I love that guy. Swear words were made for the Scottish accent. Thanks for sharing.

    • Anarchy Pony
      • http://lmgtfy.com/ jasonpaulhayes

        My favorite Hank Hill one-liner !

        • farbauti

          Friend of mine worked at a church some years back and the vicar there was a huge black metal fan.

  • Echar Lailoken

    I wonder how many skinheads attend their shows? Is that still a thing?

    • Dingbert

      No. No one has “working class pride” anymore. All that’s left, it seems, are white-power boneheads.

      • VaudeVillain

        Nonsense, there are plenty of people who embrace those values… they just started ditching the skinhead look because it stopped being identifiable or transgressive in any relevant ways, and most of the holdouts fled when the white power assholes co-opted it.

        Fashions change, don’t put too much stock in them.

      • Echar Lailoken

        Oh did you think I meant the UK skinhead movement? I meant the US skinheads.

        • emperorreagan

          There were and are skinheads in the US – from traditionals to SHARPS – that aren’t associated with the neo-nazi movement whatsoever. I’ll still see some out from time to time when I go see punk or hardcore bands.

      • kowalityjesus

        is there any such thing as the working class anymore, didn’t we export that to China?

  • Anarchy Pony

    Isn’t having love in your heart kind of, you know, not metal?

    • aaron

      I was thinking the same thing about christian metal. Sounds kinda like an oxymoron to me.

      • Monkey See Monkey Do

        Yeh I didn’t think metal was supposed to represent an evil that repulsive. Just our past-time favorite demons.

    • Dingbert

      Sounds more appropriate for reggae, which has far more songs against gay people, most of which are explicitly about killing them. I didn’t hear anything like that in this abomination of a song. I’ll take heterosexist reggae over this crap any day.

      • Monkey See Monkey Do

        Give me a youtube example of this ‘homophobic reggae’, which has at decent amount of youtube views at least.

        • Dingbert

          Probably the most famous example:

          http://youtu.be/SWa7fzeX3xo

          He’s a good, but not comprehensive, list:
          http://www.soulrebels.org/dancehall/e_songs.htm
          (the ones not in orange are iffy)

          Used to “spin” reggae in college. I think most people just don’t know what “batty boy” and “chi chi man” mean.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Reggae is a hugely prolific and popular music genre of the world, one the most popular. If you cant find me various videos with more than 1 Million views at least, then I just put it down to the politically/religious extremist fringes found within all music genre’s. Especially country and christian music.

          • Dingbert

            Feel free to crosscheck with the soulrebels list. The non-lyrics “Boom Bye Bye” video has over 9M views. Just about all reggae is from the political and religious fringe, so you won’t be able to write it off in that regard. Singing about murder is limited to dancehall and ragga, though. Just about nothing in roots, except the frequent Sodom references.

          • Echar Lailoken

            I learn something new everyday. I did not expect that.

          • Anarchy Pony

            Jamaica is considered one the most homophobic nations in the world.

          • Echar Lailoken

            I didn’t know that either. Is it because of the Christianity that was forced on their culture, or is it deeper from Vodun?

            With a quick search, it appears that Vodun is not a homophobic practice. Imagine that.

            Haiti’s LGBTQ-Accepting Vodou Societies
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/haitis-lgbtq-accepting-vodou-societies_b_2639916.html

          • Dingbert

            I suspect the influence of Christianity on the culture itself played a big part. Still, hard-line anti-Jeezus Bobo Ashanti are probably the most homophobic of all. Really, the struggle of gays in black culture, especially in the two-thirds world, is very different than it is in white America

          • Echar Lailoken

            Thank you for the info.

          • kowalityjesus

            Acceptance of homosexuality is not a particularly common thing in history. Please don’t portray the Abrahamic religions as some freaks among cultural traditions. Africa in general is extremely homophobic, not just diaspora-colonies like Jamaica.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            ‘White culture’ and ‘black culture’ don’t really have any proper definitions outside of stereotypes. Cultures aren’t defined by skin color, (its just one of many influencing factors into what makes a culture). I strongly disagree with generalizing about culture.

          • Echar Lailoken

            I just realized that I confused Haiti with Jamaica.

          • kowalityjesus

            Acceptance of homosexuality is not a particularly common thing in history. Please don’t portray the Abrahamic religions as some freaks among cultural traditions. Africa in general is extremely homophobic,
            not just diaspora-colonies like Jamaica.

          • Echar Lailoken

            It was so common, before the literalist christian hostile takeover, that there wasn’t even a word for gay, homosexual, etc. It was what it was. I am seriously not interested in re-educating you. That’s a choice a person needs to make, otherwise you are forcing me to reinforce your faith. I am not interested in that.

          • kowalityjesus

            As Mitt Romney pointed out when confronted about his apparently bullying of a homosexual classmate (I paraphrase) “the last thing in the 1960s we were worried about was whether or not someone was gay” sexual orientation wasn’t discussed because there weren’t really any people that were openly gay. The idea of homosexual marriage is a 21st century phenomenon, and anyone that tells you differently is hijacking history, as far as my understanding of the concept is. If you’re disinclined to rebut, it is your prerogative.

          • Tuna Ghost

            are you seriously arguing that heteronormativity was not a huge part of American culture at the time, and that defying it would have a significant reprecussion? Because that’s just’s fucking dumb

          • kowalityjesus

            I think American culture has more or less had the heteronormative default blasted out of the water already. Back in the 60s though, we would be fooling ourselves if gayness was even considered in most situations. Most children grew up in situations completely innocent from anything deviating from heteronormativity.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            By who exactly?

          • aaron

            Damn I was thinking the same thing. Interesting piece of knowledge to know. I guess I better specificy to people what type of reggae I like from now on.

            Nah, bra, I listen to the anti-corruption, anti-hate, world peace and acceptance type reggae not the kill the gays homophobic type (in a hipster wanna be gangster bro type voice)

          • Echar Lailoken
          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Haha brilliant. Pretty much the point I was trying to make to Dingbert.

          • aaron

            Haha ya its like nooo not reggae, damnit dont ruin I for me. Its like telling someone who enjoys hot dogs whats actually in them.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Actually I was thinking more that there’s plenty of healthy (and some tasty) veggie dogs out there too, but people like to lap up suffering vicariously.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Most reggae is the good healthy stuff.

          • aaron

            Yea I dont eat hot dogs for that reason. All the nasty left over animal carcass parts aside the extremely high levels of nitrates are frightening.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            What did you learn?

          • Echar Lailoken

            That Jamaica is homophobic, and that reggae is not all unicorn farts and sunbeams.

          • https://twitter.com/anti_euclidean ÿ

            Look at that soulrebels list again. Specifically the chronology.

            Interesting how it times up with the corporate co-option of Jamaican music. Kind of like what happened to hip hop and every rebel music/culture before it. This is the trench war those of us hanging at the fringes of the industry are dealing with. From the drop. To this day. Same story, new day.

            Not saying there aren’t deeply embedded prejudices in some of the uglier parts of the culture, but only that it’s probably not right to try to analyze them from the typical Western mindset, particularly with this limited subset of data.

            It wouldn’t even be worth the time to do it, but imagine judging all of American culture on the basis of some of the most ignorant artifacts we’ve so generously strewn across the landscape.

            Now, some tru righteousness to chant down babylon…

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kirhIbCvuE4

          • Echar Lailoken

            Good point. When I worked at this software company, there was a this intern from Holland that visited for several months. He told me was scared of the US, he figured it was like the tv show COPS.

          • https://twitter.com/anti_euclidean ÿ

            German exchange student in high school told me that “most Germans” thought all Americans were loud, owned lots of guns, and wore cowboy hats.

            Fortunately for us, he wound up in Wisconsin and not Texas. 2 / 3 ain’t as bad.

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            E-prime adjustment = Some people but not all people in Jamaica are homophobic. Homophobia is a problem in Jahmaica but Jamaica is a culturally diverse place and romanticism is a form of unconscious racism. Socioeconomic factors included I applaud them for withstanding disintegration.

          • https://twitter.com/anti_euclidean ÿ

            As much as I champion the culture, I have no illusions about its dark side. I can’t imagine living in Kingston now or during the “cultural high water mark” of the 60′s & 70′s, nor any other time.

            Homophobia, Misogyny, & Sexism do not need much encouragement to take root in a collective psyche. Ditto Violence, Drugs, & Poverty. But I can almost literally step outside my door and see these things in my so-called First World™ environment.

            Jamaica’s cultural advantage was discovering the dubside. I would venture to call it the single greatest musical development since the advent of modern recording.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbb192bVGAU

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUTXO71rPqU

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaRXtLX4sMk

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCrYBWh62Y

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            Political and religious extremism is what I said. I think you miss my point.

          • roger mexico

            I’m familiar with Buju Banton and a number of artists with similar songs. Most are from fundamentalist sects of Rastafarianism, from what I understand. (I’m hardly an expert on the religion.)

            While Rastafarianism has “hippie” connotations in the US, it bears remembering that in its native country it’s actually a branch of Orthodox Christianity, and actually in some ways has substantial similarities to other politicized religious movements tied to Third World nationalist politics. (Think Muslim Brotherhood, et al)

            That there even is such a thing as “fundamentalist Rastafarians” seems to be counterintuitive for a lot of Americans–chiefly the ones who really seem to know nothing about the religion except that it involves ritually smoking cannabis–but it basically has a militant ultraconservative wing, which a number of popular Jamaican reggae artists belong to. (Buju, Capleton, Sizzla–hell, these are some of my favorite musicians, strictly on musical grounds, but they happen to believe in some wacko bullshit.)

            The More You Know

    • VaudeVillain

      On the surface, yeah. At some point, though, I don’t think anyone without love in their heart would ever confront or embrace the ugliness of the world the way (real) metal does.

      I guess it sort of hinges on whether you define “love” as some sort of candy-coated fluff, or as something worth a damn.

      • aaron

        Corporate take over of things like Valentine’s Day have caused this.

        • VaudeVillain

          Not sure they really took it over so much as invented it in the first place… but yeah, that’s basically the problem.

          • aaron

            Well true ha. Turning a day where a bunch of people were gunned down in Chicago in to this sissy pink heart and flower and you arnt a good boyfriend if you dont buy me a gift bullshit is definitely a marketing genius. Day whrn a Slaughter happened is turned in to a societal norm of gift buying. Thank god my girlfriend doesn’t believe in valentines day shit like that.

    • Eric_D_Read

      But trying to assimilate anything and everything that could help spread the virus is a very christian thing to do.

  • aaron

    I still to this day cant wrap my head around the christian mentality where they actually believe being gay is a choice like some how the literally millions of gay people that are out there wake up every day and start off there day thinking “i think im gonna continue to be gay today.”

    They are born gay which means by your own religious views that god made them gay and you say god makes no mistakes so how the fuck is it a sin? This hypocritical close minded lack of intellectuallness and intelligence is just…*pause to think of a word for it*…..PATHETIC.

    • Monkey See Monkey Do

      Semantics about inherent versus programmed. The old nature vs nurture. Personally I couldn’t care less about that shit. I’m a pragmatist.

      • aaron

        If you are going to use being a pragmatist as an excuse to not care about equal rights of all people then that speaks volumes about your character.

        Also your nature vs nurture argument is just obsurd considering there are homosexual animals in nature. Also there are multiple males and females who have been raised in the most masculine or femenine way in fundamental anti-gay christian household who end up showning they are gay and have been. There homosexuals in every society and race on the planet with all different methods of raising and nurturing children. Also if you ask any gay person then will say they always knew they were different inside from when they were a kid. You cannot “nurture” someone into being sexually attracted to the same sex or vise versa.

        • Monkey See Monkey Do

          Why does it matter whether its nature or nurture when it comes to same sex attraction? I just don’t get why you are trying to equate this with equal rights. Ideally it shouldn’t matter either way when two adults choose to fuck amongst themselves. Let them choose to be that of feel it is instinctual, it really doesn’t matter.

          Ps. Masculinity and femininity are over played stereotypes when it comes to peoples sexual preferences. Do you get where I’m coming from? I’m just challenging per-conceptions. I’m all for equal right for the gay community by the way.

          • aaron

            The nature vs nurture part is because anti-gay christian fundamentalists are convinced being gay is a personal choice. However I agree the equal rights part shouldn’t really have anything to do if it’s a choice or not because im tired of big brother or religions trying to dictate my choices. And I also agree whats considered masculine or feminine is a societal stereotype and nothing more I was just using it as a example I actually considered not saying it because of that reason ha

          • Monkey See Monkey Do

            I largely agree but natural vs societal… Its semantics, linguistic relativity.

    • Damian Caligula

      If being gay is a choice, then so is being straight. So all these straight people who are against homosexuals must spend their days trying to hide their latent homosexual urges. I agree, people are born gay, straight, or bisexual. It’s not like people try to be attracted to a certain type, attraction is an uncontrollable natural urge. I can’t control who I’m attracted to. If I see someone who is attractive to my eyes, then I just am. It’s not like I’m trying to be attracted to a certain type of person, it just happens. I’m sure it’s not any different for a gay or bisexual person.

      • Matt Staggs

        I had an argument with a conservative Christian coworker about the “choice” thing. She even had gay friends, but insisted that they had chosen to be gay. When I asked her then if she could “choose” to be attracted to a women, she said yes. Then later she backpedaled and said maybe some small minority of people are born gay, but the rest choose to be so. I think she had reconsidered the statement she had made and was concerned about its implications. I sent her a crap ton of links to medical journals and scientific studies about homosexuality and the brain, genes, etc., but she threw the “those are liberal scientists trying to make us accept the gays” thing back at me. Idiot. So glad I don’t work there anymore. To think that she tried to “friend” me on Facebook recently…

    • Andrew

      I prefer the term “reprehensible.”

  • VaudeVillain

    How do people exist with that kind of cognitive dissonance? If “tolerance is hate” as they say, then why are they so worried about being called bigots? If “every sin is judged the same” then why be concerned with “infidelity, twisted sexuality” but not cotton/poly t-shirts?

    It’s like they’ve completely missed the whole point of their own religion, and instead latched onto all of the things they aren’t supposed to do. How sad.

    • Anarchy Pony

      Based on my observations, just about all wingnuts seem to be suffering from serious doublethink.

    • Echar Lailoken

      It went viral. Hate is the new love?

      • kowalityjesus

        admonition in light of the fate of one’s soul is love.

        • Andrew

          Admonition in light of what you and your religion think is the fate of some people’s souls can drive them to suicide.

        • Tuna Ghost

          admonish all you like, just don’t demand that I take you seriously

    • aaron

      Just typical hypocritical christians picking and choosing what sounds good to follow from the bible.

      • VaudeVillain

        And yet they explicitly state “you don’t get to pick and choose what’s right for you” without a shred of irony.

        I’m not sure whether to laugh at them or to cry for them.

        • Echar Lailoken

          Understand that many of them do not know any better. They were raised to believe this stuff. Laughing at them will only reinforce their “faith”, but crying for them may facilitate progress for you.

          Some were born to question, others were born to accept.

          • aaron

            Indoctrination at its finest. Cognitive dissonance makes it so difficult to reverse it.

          • Echar Lailoken

            It seems that Christianity, and maybe other religions , have a self destruct memetic structure imbedded within the system. Children are taught from a young age to go against is to accept evil.

            So if ones decides to veer off the path, they must battle with this idea that they are evil. They may delve into destructive worldviews. Eventually If strong enough, the person may make it out the other end stronger, wiser, and hopefully with less guilt.

          • aaron

            Ya the 150+ plus religions in this world seem to have this “our way is the only possible way” type indoctrination which is slightly ironic when you just look at the fact of there being 150 different ones in the first place.

            I get people usually need some type of faith and some form of spirituality but why does it always seem when man organizes this into a religion it seems to turn into this cult like our way or the highway type mentality.

            Edit: and im not a theologist or some religious history expert so I made a lot of assumptions when I said all 150+ world religions are like that.

          • Echar Lailoken

            I don’t know the exact answer, but I do know that we are social animals. Belonging feels comfortable, and control adds more comfort. As for the amount, there’s a metric fuckton of them, that’s a scientific term.

            List of religions and spiritual traditions
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

            That’s only the religions and spiritual traditions that are above radar. How many more are being formed right now?

          • aaron

            I agree. And there probably are ones formed every other day…

            Also ahhh yes a metric fuck ton: 10x a metric shit ton and 3.4 times a U.S. fuck ton. Its science.

          • Matt Staggs

            Exactly. I’ve talked about it before as being like the facehugger from Alien. If you try to cut it off it’ll just squeeze tighter and spew acid on you. You’ve got to “die” metaphorically to remove it. If you let it stay then you run the risk of repeating the cycle and spreading it to others.

          • Echar Lailoken

            That may very well explain my goth years. lol

          • kowalityjesus

            That’s why they invented America, where you can fuck off from any religion you want, while legally respecting within reason each individual’s own religious views.

          • Matt Staggs

            I’ll happily continue to do so, provided that said religion isn’t used to oppress others and deny citizens their civil liberties.

          • kowalityjesus

            Is it a civil liberty to want to get married to whatever you want? It’s not a civil liberty to get married to your cousin, for example.

            Fuck everyone that disenfranchises people for their point of view, thus fuck militant liberals. If I don’t think gay people should be married because people have made up the issue in the last 5 years (it being totally absent from history), and I say or do something about my opinion of it, then I should be allowed to keep my job.

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-ellner/its-no-wonder-brendan-eic_b_5138749.html

            “Comrade Eich has not displayed his ‘I <3
            GAY MARRIAGE' sign in his window! To the Gulag!!!"

            That should be a lawsuit.

          • Andrew

            There’s a difference between being forced to proclaim approval of an individual’s sexuality and being restricted from proclaiming disapproval of an individual’s sexuality.

          • Adam’s Shadow

            Except he wasn’t sent to the gulag; he was forced to resign. Which I agree is also ridiculous and unfair, no matter how much Prop 8 pissed me off, especially as a life-long California resident.

            Still, pretending that Eich losing his job and being publicly shamed for supporting Prop 8 is the same as going to jail and/or being beaten for being gay is inaccurate. Being homophobic in this country or being for “traditional marriage” or “traditional values” or whatever you want to call it will (hopefully) never result in being treated as poorly as gay people have in this country. There are still anti-sodomy laws on the books in fourteen states; last time I checked, Eich could not go to jail for saying marriage should only be between a man and woman.

        • aaron

          Agreed. I do a bit of both ha

    • kowalityjesus

      like, there are plenty of vestigial things in the bible just like there are plenty of vestigial laws in any country that has existed for a couple hundred years. If you think you know better than the 1.3 billion people conducting their religion centered around a 774,000-word document, why don’t you go lead them. You can be the next pope!

      • Matt Staggs

        Here’s a serious question, then: How does one decide what is “vestigial” and what is still valid? Old Testament laws against homosexuality exist side by side with admonitions about mixing fabrics and eating shell fish, as well as handy tips on when you can beat your wives and sell your slaves.

        • kowalityjesus

          This is really fuckin true. Most of this stuff was written ca. 3000 years ago, when people were experiencing very different things, but WERE NOT very different people. Protestants say “sola scriptora,” but I resign myself to more and decree as a follower of the Vatican.

          I personally think the Vatican position that ‘people identifying with homosexuality should practice celibacy as a solution to the dire fate of their soul’ is a bit outdated but it’s as close an official position as we can conservatively come to. I think also it is telling that Francis said his bishops should not be “obsessed with” abortion and gay marriage, because there are a lot of other obviously-more-important problems, and in fact I have NEVER heard gay marriage even mentioned in church.

          I hate to use sappy anecdotes, but they describe the poles of my own position. My friend who is pretty damn awesome, very fuckin intelligent and is the only person I’ve ever met who likes Aphex Twin more than me, is gay and a little whore. He is attracted to white men around 40 and has had 5 times more sexual partners than me although 6 years younger. I don’t think God approves of that, but I know that God is with him, as there are things that I habitually do that God probably does not approve of but yet He is with me. I don’t pay attention to his latent promiscuity when I hang around him, because I think our friendship is more important than chiding preaching. I hope the Lord reaches him and he changes, though I don’t know in what way. My other friend is a gay man who is almost 80, who I also get along with VERY well. Very damn classy guy. His homosexuality is totally latent because of his age, though I know his partner of 35 years died about 5 years ago. If ever there were a candidate for gay marriage, it would have been those two. Both of these guys would be disappointed to see me, in their eyes, advocating for the devil on these forums. I think there is a consortium of idiots who may have insecurities about their own sexuality, that I don’t like to associate with, but in conservatism, I effectively am associating with. I also don’t think finding homosexual activity repugnant is inherently wrong, as I don’t actually think homosexuality is inherently wrong either, but don’t quote me. I think back to my youth and (the ultimate irony in my Catholicism being given misconduct of some priests) I liked not being gay or having to think or make provision for homosexuality. I think focus should be on monogamous male-female relationships as it has been throughout all living history. The machine that bankrupts America financially is also bankrupting America morally, this issue being a red herring to fuel or distract from that fact, but as long as the issue stands I am choosing to fight for those who are long in tradition but short in political correctness.

          • Andrew

            > I don’t actually think homosexuality is inherently wrong either, but don’t quote me.

            Request to not be quoted denied. ;) Do you believe God will send people to everlasting torture for doing something that isn’t inherently wrong?

          • kowalityjesus

            I have no ability to judge what is inherently wrong, therefore I am not throwing stones. But I will politely ask the state to recognize my right to abscond from consent in homosexual activity and marriages, as well as those who form the electorate.

          • Andrew

            And I’ll gas up the liberal steamroller.

          • Matt Staggs

            Fair enough. I’m just confused how the faithful come to understand the difference between God’s true mandates and the influence of society.
            By way of example, homosexuality isn’t given equal footing in the United States and is considered by some to be aberrant or even evil. You can proclaim that homosexuality is a sin in public and still get away with a lot of times. Heck, you may find people applauding you. But if you start preaching to your neighbors about the sins of shrimp cocktails, shaving your beard, and wearing cotton-blend shirts they’re likely to consider you a lunatic. Does that kind of influence make it easier to obey some Biblical mandates and ignore the other ones?

          • kowalityjesus

            Well, the idea, as I would imagine it, is that God’s will pervades all “things” as broad as that word is, and scripture is a revelation unto that effect. I personally cannot physically hear the voice of God, though I have seen and felt plenty of things that I can attribute to His directly revealing to me. Whether this entity is actually the creator of the universe I cannot know, but a higher power who hates my blaspheme and rejoices at my overcoming hardship regularly guides me. My Christianity is a harness on this ‘effect’ which significantly predates my baptism. Biblical knowledge is sacred, the gospels are holy, but instantaneous practicality (via mental fortitude or numinous occurrence) and the Vicar of Christ are good substitutes for an attempt to incorporate all 0.74 million words of the bible into a workable religion, at least for me.
            I don’t understand homosexuality fully, and neither does science. This doesn’t stop one from treating people of this persuasion humanely. I’ve known some gays that would rather not be that way, but there’s not much it seems one can do about it. I think the scrambling for same-sex marriage legislation is a pretty big waste of time, (who the hell ever heard of “gay marriage” before the year 2000?) an attempt to legislatively force companies to give greater benefits to “duel income, no kids” households at best; a liberal statist’s way to hound out federal enforcement to validate a certain lifestyle at worst. WTF, can’t normal breeder WASPs have a moment of peace? Or does the tax base have to be hounded and dogged to oblivion? libertarian christian rant TM

      • VaudeVillain

        I know more Christians who believe in love, compassion, tolerance, charity and peace than I do Christians who believe in condemnation, discrimination, exclusion, selfishness and violence. The former just don’t feel the need to write shitty post-hardcore metal or protest at Pride events, so they don’t get as much attention.

        But by all means, continue being a judgmental, condescending fuckwad… I’m sure that’s what Jesus wants.

        • kowalityjesus

          “Yeah well, that’s just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.” Who is being a condescending fuckwad? The person that is standing up for the principles/traditions of one’s religion, or the one standing outside telling those people how to conduct their religion??

          It’s moral principle that this song discusses, and the reality of Hell and those destined there. The only reason these people are being hounded is because they roared up momentarily, leaned their head out the church window and said “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more!” Enough of the liberal steamroller, let these people think what they want and legislate accordingly!!!!

          • VaudeVillain

            It is my general habit to judge people against the standards they claim to hold themselves to. Most Christians fail to live up to their own standards, as set forth in their own scriptures. If that rubs you the wrong way… well, change your act or pick a new faith that is more in line with what you actually believe.

            Sorry that my having even the slightest idea what Jesus actually taught shits in your cereal, but that’s just how it goes.

          • kowalityjesus

            bullshit, you need new habits. You handle your own values and leave my username out of the argument. Ever heard of a double standard? “I judge people who are Christians to not be worthy of judging.” Obviously we have to judge things all day every day, though it can be a terrible pitfall to be presumptuous.

            Like I said, I’m not throwing any stones by saying homosexual activity does not merit the title or state protectorship of “marriage.” I’m not being particularly conservative in thinking so either, all you have to do is go back 15 years and the entire issue is somewhere somehow conjured into existence. wtf, what giant red herring from ANYTHING else that we could be spending our political energy on. I guess this is not exactly on topic from this thread, but this is part of the same thread of discussion. Gay people get the same provisions under the law as any other person, what is the big damn issue?

          • Tuna Ghost

            I’m not being particularly conservative in thinking so either, all you have to do is go back 15 years and the entire issue is somewhere somehow conjured into existence.

            Yeah, they used to say that about interracial marriages too. They were wildly incorrect then, factually speaking, and you are as well.

            Gay people get the same provisions under the law as any other person, what is the big damn issue?

            Except for marrying someone they love. And, thanks to recent legislation, being denied service because of their sexual orientation. That’s the big damn issue, friend. Which you’re willfully ignoring.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    I think they picked a damn fine way to get attention :-) Without empty controversy, ‘Christian metal’ wouldn’t even make the radar. The fastest track for such a failed core concept with severely limited reach is to be ‘controversial’…or at least attempt it…altho parroting the usual bigotry that more or less defines modern Christianity in the US barely even qualifies as controversy. It’s kind of like claiming you’re a rebel…by doing exactly what you’re told when you’re told to do it while singing ditties about how awesome your abject and slavish servitude is.

    • kowalityjesus

      Considering the standard for originality in metal these days, Reformers are ahead of the pack. I happened across a video for Solution .45 a while ago and watched it just to see what the populace was up to these days. I was struck with how rambunctious and lousy it was given its popularity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXJxtp8inWg
      This song is not homophobic, it’s heteronormative. There is something to be said about nuclear families after all, don’t ya think?

      • Matt Staggs

        You’re listening to the wrong metal. Mastodon, High on Fire, Baroness, Torche… there’s a ton of great, original stuff out there.

        • Dingbert

          Speaking of original metal, the Krokofant and The Body albums that came out this month are pretty crazy (although the former is more jazz).

        • Jonas Planck

          I, too, saw the creature fall into the swamp from whence it spawned!

        • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

          Precisely. There are people pushing boundaries with some thought and craftsmanship applied to their music. Whereas, in the absence of talent or acclaim, creating faux controversy is a popular substitute used to grab a few headlines. This group is just a cross wielding, scripture referencing version of Madonna (“look! titties(or in this case-religion)! danger! I’m rebellious!”) Yada yada yada.

  • Spasmodius

    To misquote Spinal Tap “On what day did the Lord create Christian Metal, and couldn’t He have rested on that day too?”

  • Conspiracy Carrot

    I wonder if recording took longer than expected because after every chorus the band broke into uncontrollable fits of blowing one another.

  • BrianApocalypse

    The irony is, that singing in a monster-voice about obedience, the evil of “tolerance” and absolute laws actually makes them sound more demonic than regular metal.

    The demon Jehovah says OBEY!

    • Matt Staggs

      Holy crap. You’re right. These guys are more satanic than any black metal band.

      • Monkey See Monkey Do

        Its Hardcore shit. Metal that involves screaming about a god that you love but every now and then plays a trick on you to kill your children (To test your faith or something?…) At least that the Abraham-Isaac story or whatever it may be cant remember.

  • kowalityjesus

    Thanks for the reference Matt. This music speaks to me. It is brave and unabashed, and stands for principle instead of being beaten down by political correctness. IMO “Metal” these days…with the bass and tom-heavy drums, the singer with 3 modes (low growl, high growl, and gallant melody) and a conventional distortion on guitar…is pretty monotonous to me.

    The gay rights movement in America is desperately trying to latch itself onto the black/minority rights movement. If sexual orientation can be treated the same as race, then it will enjoy all the same privilege against discrimination as the legislation against racism gives to non-whites. Unfortunately there a lot of incongruent aspects in the orientation of the two, which I won’t go into because I am too lazy and surely someone else on the internet has already done that exhaustively.

    • Andrew

      As a het-but-not-quite-cis male who was bashed for allegedly being a “fag” for 9 years in 3 Catholic schools, I adamantly support giving sexual orientation the same privilege against discrimination as race.

      • Matt Staggs

        You too, huh? Being called “faggot” by rednecks for about six years gave me a radically different perspective on what it must be like to be gay. I was (and am) completely heterosexual, but apparently anyone “different” in any way was “a queer” to those mouth breathers and should be treated as such.

    • Tuna Ghost

      Yeah its super brave to associate with the ethnic and religious majority of the most powerful country in the world

    • Forbidden Fruit

      I agree that the PC machine has gone too far in the last decade or so. However, no one is infringing on this band’s right to free speech. They’re free to say whatever they want but are not free from the repercussions of their words.

      There’s a reason gay rights have come to the forefront recently, and it’s not a mass conspiracy. It’s because everyone deserves to live freely and openly without discrimination. That applies to racial minorities, women, homosexuals and anyone else living a peaceful existence without hurting anyone. Would you also say that the Civil Rights movement was trying to “latch onto” the Women’s Suffrage movement since it happened later? I hope not.

      If you disagree with homosexuality, don’t engage in a gay relationship. Problem solved. But that’s not enough for some people. They want to impose their view of morality onto others and cry discrimination when they’re called bigots for saying hateful things.

      The difference between (most) gays and (most) Christians is that gays don’t try to “win souls” or convert anyone to their way of life…evangelical Christians do. There’s nothing wrong with religion when it’s used as a tool for self-betterment, but it becomes problematic when used as a tool to control the behavior of others, which is how 90% of modern Christians use it.

  • Adam’s Shadow

    “Although I am kinda confused how eating a chicken sandwich is portraying your views”

    It’s facebook activism: “I clicked Like! Take that cancer!”

    • aaron

      Haha I got rid of facebook a long time ago for dumbshit like that amongst other reasons. Im gonna save the world one “like” click at a time….what a joke ha

  • VaudeVillain

    Seriously though… have you ever eaten one of their sandwiches? The self-loathing is totally worth it.

    • aaron

      Oh they are delicious lol

  • aaron

    Haha this is true.
    Christian god is kind of an asshole and never admit he is wrong. Their god doesn’t make mistakes yet he creates man and man kills and lies and cheats and all sorts of bad stuff and god is unhappy so he just floods the earth and kills them without ever admitting his own mistake? Damn dude just admit you made a flaw in the mold for humans or something.

  • Jonas Planck

    I trust that the entire record is a’capella, right? Biblical law states very clearly that the human voice is the only instrument that’s allowed to be used to praise God… If they were to employ guitars or drums, well… that would be an abomination in the eyes of the lord.

  • Forbidden Fruit

    “Truth is truth” but morality is subjective. This band is an abomination to both Christianity and music. They’re probably committing 5+ Biblical sins in this video alone. My ears hurt.

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