No Thanks, Reddit: No ‘RedPill’ For Me

PIC: WimB (CC)

PIC: WimB (CC)

Andrew Gonsalves writes at Don’t Feed the Animals:

I recently stumbled across a subreddit called “TheRedPill” and I am a little saddened by it. I’ve long been aware of pick-up artist logic, anti-feminism, and general alpha-male mentality, so this community’s existence is not surprising. What’s so sad about it is that it represents a portion of the population whose first reaction to the illusion of being marginalized is to push back in the opposite direction. They call this adaptation, but what they’re really doing is painting themselves in with every other movement that fought social change to the bitter end.

To summarize The Red Pill, it’s basically a bunch of men huddling together and complaining about how women are by nature incompetent and should not be trusted with any responsibility or authority. This also means that they view women, not as individuals, but as naive, manipulable creatures who inconveniently just happen to be holding the one thing they need them for – sex – at arm’s length. They collude on how to raise their sexual market value. They laugh at hapless women who attempt to use sex for empowerment, but actually just stumble into the trap they set.

You can’t blame these men for feeling marginalized, since fear and defensiveness is the typical reaction of someone who has very little empathetic ability or intelligence (not to be mistaken with the ability to read and write). They don’t know what being the marginalized sex actually feels like, so the first time they realize that getting what they want out of life is sort of difficult, they devise an oppressive enemy (feminism) that’s holding them back and rally the troops. They never stop to consider that maybe its they who need to change.

This isn’t to say that there aren’t certain cultural truths that make sex difficult to obtain for some more than others. In the USA, being a rich, attractive, white (for those who aren’t white, call this “white-acting”) male will almost certainly guarantee you all of the sex you’d ever want. If you aren’t there yet, increase your value in those areas and you’ll probably see an improved response from the opposite sex. However, there are two missing factors in this equation that Red Pillers keep leaving out, possibly because they are deficient in them. Those factors would be intelligence and individuality. It seems to me that if your sole goal in life is to bed vulnerable and uninteresting women, then the Red Pill philosophy sounds like the perfect feedback loop.

Since happiness is variable and subjective, I’m not going to say that they’re not happy doing this. What I would like to accomplish with this post is to establish that they’re simply wrong about their motivations. If they were to admit that jocking around and fucking women is what makes them happy, I wouldn’t have a problem with them. The issue arises when they justify their motivations by denigrating women and the men who support them by making fallacious claims and thumping their chests about it. Own up it, Red Pillers, and you’re off the hook.

Read more here.

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  • Hardcore Zen

    Oh the irony…
    Freedom means some people will have opinions that you do not agree with… Heaven forbid you let them be judged on their own merit. It does not require you to tell people what is right/wrong or acceptable.

    • Andrew

      I guess the irony is that he is judging them on their own merits, and you’re telling him that doing so is wrong.

      • anon8735

        You must be a mind-reader because nowhere does he tell him what to do.

        • Andrew

          I think I read between the lines fairly well, but I may be only half right..

          • Jedediah Ghouled

            Maybe 3/4? I read it the same way you did.

          • Hardcore Zen

            There is no such thing as “reading between the lines”… It is a narcissistic colloquialism. You cannot read minds and you cannot therefore “read between the lines.”

            If you disagree please… I encourage you to quantify how this works exactly.

          • Jin The Ninja

            [There is no such thing as “reading between the lines”]

            if that were true: theme, metaphor, literature, metaphysics, semantics, connotation, mythology, allegory, film, art and poetry- are meaningless and language only serves the plainspoken master. and what a master s/he must be.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Your logical fallacy is out of context.

          • Andrew

            More bullshit. Exactly what logical fallacy did he supposedly commit (unlike reading between the lines, logic is exact), and what mistaken context is his comment in vs. the context you think it should have been in?

          • Jin The Ninja

            the catchphrase of trolls everywhere.

            if you posit something doesn’t exist, make sure that ‘thing’ isn’t qualified by thousands of years of human culture.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Look… I am not “trolling” anyone. If you want to debate “logic” I’ll first ask if you have an academic background in logic before wasting my time?

            I have been nothing less than civil and polite here. If your goal is to throw civility out the window. I am not interested.

            I have a degree in CS and 25 years practical application in my profession as an engineer. I do have a very intimate understanding of logic.

            It is called Inference – not “reading between the lines.”

          • Andrew

            Note that he won’t tell you what logical fallacy you allegedly committed (nor what was supposedly wrong with your context). Instead he tries to shift the onus to you, unfairly demanding an academic background. Infer what you will about that.

          • Echar Lailoken

            Did you look that specific commentor’s backlog? If so, it’s his M.O. He even told someone to man up and whipped out the I was a soldier card. I say, pics or it didn’t happen. Even though in this instance, pics are not enough.

          • Echar Lailoken

            Ah, you are one of those. If you are not Camron, you and he will likely be spooning soon.

          • Hardcore Zen

            One of what exactly? Can you be clearer so that I do not have to infer your meaning?

          • Echar Lailoken

            No, but others here will know.

          • Hardcore Zen

            “No” you do not know “what” exactly, or “no” you cannot be clearer?

          • Echar Lailoken

            0110111001101111

          • Hardcore Zen

            011101010111001000100000011100110110111100100000011000110110111101101111011011000010000001010101001000000110101101101110011011110111011100100000011010000110111101110111001000000111010001101111001000000110011101101111011011110110011101101100011001010010000001101000011011110111011100100000011000010110001001101111011101010111010000100000011101000110100001101001011100110010000001100101011010010110111001110011011101000110010101101001011011100010000000110010001100000011000000110010001110100011000000111010001100000011101000110000001110100011000000111010001100000011101001100100001100000110010000110111001110100110001000110011001110000011000000101111001100010011000100111001

          • Andrew

            Bullshit. Reading between the lines is the process of interpreting the connotations, implications, nuances and suggestions in a text. It often works, but not exactly and not always. So, if my interpretation of your initial comment was incorrect, I assume you don’t think the writer was wrong to write his article?

      • Hardcore Zen

        Judge not lest ye be judged…

        My apologies that it’s too esoteric for you. Making his own judgment is not requisite of a public proclamation to inluence others for validation. This is a classic indicator of an infantile ego and weak self esteem.

        Are you playing devils advocate or do I sense that you identify with him?

        • Andrew

          Now who’s trying to read between the lines?

          • Hardcore Zen

            You didn’t have to say it, you provided enough logical evidence to “Infer” it. Do you see how that works Mr “I can read between the lines pretty good, but have no idea what Inference is.”

            Don’t tell me… you’re a liberal arts major? More “inference.”

          • Andrew

            Let me put it this way; your “direct and succinct” comment wasn’t esoteric at all, let alone too esoteric for me.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Then why do you infer that you do not understand my original post that you responded to when you stated that you are good at “reading between the lines?”

            You’ll have to please be clearer as to what is is that you do not understand? Others here participating in this discourse understood and concurred? What is it that you cannot “read between the lines?”

          • Andrew

            I didn’t mean to infer at any time that I didn’t understand your original comment. I think I understood it completely.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Fair enough… So you “think” you understood it. That would mean that you do not “know” you understood it. Well you’re thinking wrong and this vapid discourse is the axiom of proof.

          • Andrew

            Every comment you make convinces me I did read it correctly.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Refuting the axiom of your own words does nothing but prove my point. Regardless of what you “think” that point may be. You see I KNOW what it is… I am the one who thought it and wrote it down as part of this discourse.

          • Andrew

            I’ve not refuted the axiom of my own words. I’ve repeatedly said that I think, but am not sure, that I correctly interpreted your words as implying that you think Gonsalves was wrong to write his article, and the fact that you won’t explicitly said that he wasn’t wrong keeps confirming my suspicion.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Fair enough… You did say that you “think” you read between the lines pretty good.

            I was hoping you would come to the conclusion that no I in fact do not think he is wrong for posting this. I propose no judgement on him for his actions or his words. I used his post as an example to make an argument for freedom.

            Koan
            ko·an kōˌän/
            noun

            1.
            a paradoxical anecdote or riddle, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and to provoke enlightenment.

          • Jin The Ninja

            simply because you can copy/past a definition of a word (denotation) does not mean, that you are actually in real way, informed by the worldview or buddhist rhetorical tradition inherent to the word’s usage.
            in fact, all you’ve done is waved your vastly inflated ego around, alongside your inferior set of technical writing skills. something to think about.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Mildly amusing sciolism.

          • Jin The Ninja

            a practicing buddhist for 18 years knows a bit more than an ang mo with a penchant for the hardcore right wing.

          • Andrew

            If I’m wrong, then you don’t think Gonsalves was wrong to write his article.

          • Hardcore Zen

            No I do not

          • Andrew

            Then I stand (sit) corrected. Thanks for clearing that up.

        • Jin The Ninja

          ‘too esoteric’ – so you withdraw your claim that language cannot hold subtext or ulterior meaning?

      • overdone

        .

    • Craig Bickford

      I know right. Next there wil be a scathing editorial about 4Chan showing up here.

    • JaceD

      Quite often people fall into a false sense of self-righteousness, by declaring their views valid because it’s “their opinion”. Unfortunately, some things in life can’t be validated because of personal opinion. Believing women aren’t equal? Well, anyone with a functional moral compass would recognise this as wrong. Some things are a matter of opinion, such as preferring one genre of music over another. Some things just make you a wanker for being a bigot, and believing that a person is somehow vindicated because it’s “their opinion” is simply incorrect.

      • Jin The Ninja

        hey dude~!

        • JaceD

          Hey buddy! Long time. Good to see you still lurking about!

          • Jin The Ninja

            same 2 you. hope everything is well.

      • Hardcore Zen

        Well said… And my point exactly. I was not aware of this sub group on Reddit, nor do I care. It’s an existential absurdity. I mean even if it is some sort of “operation mind fuck” Discordian effort… bigotry is ugly in all it’s manifestations – even those that some groups find ok, like “white guilt.” A reasonable and rational adult human being does not need to be told that… Even when they are they still formulate their own opinions about it.

        Life is about our own individual conduct… that is all any of us have control over. Trying to control or influence other people is irrefutably manipulative, and that is not freedom, or liberty.

        • JaceD

          Well, I’ll be honest, I completely misread your previous comment. I’m totally in agreement with you on this. Cheers for the reply.

    • Oginikwe

      Except we are talking about opinions that restrict the freedoms of other people. If I am of the opinion that slavery was good and true, that everyone has to be either slave or master, then that’s just my opinion and there is no wrong/right opinion?

      Like it or not, we learn from others, and sometimes that learning takes the form of painful social lessons. If our baser selves are given free rein under the guise of “freedom” and “liberty,” then some of us are going to have those things taken from us because no one spoke up. We need other people in our lives to tell us when we’re going feral so we can reconsider our worldviews instead of just responding via preformed stereotypical schemas and having knee-jerk reactions from our deep frames.

      • Hardcore Zen

        Great you have an original thought. That is exactly the point of what I posted. You don’t need to be told bigotry is wrong. You know it is and you therefore conduct yourself in a way that is not bigoted I presume.

        Do you avoid bigots? Do you walk around with a sign that says bigots are bad… down with the bigots?

        I know what is right and wrong, and it seems you do as well. We all achieve that point in our lives as long as the capacity to do so is not otherwise diminished, or disrupted in some way.

        But the world will never be perfect… there will always be bigots and bigotry unless everyone one makes a conscious “individual” choice not to be bigoted, and that is the point.

  • Gjallarbru

    I would say I have met feminists that were just as much ass-backward idiots as those red pill guys. So how cares, idiots come in every size and colour and both sides of the fence. No point in telling them off.

    • Echar Lailoken

      I suppose so, if they are not self aware enough in the first place to know they’re dense. They are probably not going to benefit from a nudge or a push.

      • Gjallarbru

        Exactly, you have to be open and wanting to change to be subject to change. Some are just too stubbord. Watch them, so they don’t do something stupid, but don’t try to reason or argue, you would be wasting your time.

        • Echar Lailoken

          Part of me thinks they deserve the licks. The other part knows it’s foolish to act on this.

          • Gjallarbru

            I know the feeling, in particular I remember a teacher of mine at university that hated anything with a pair of testicles…

          • Echar Lailoken

            I usually think to myself that there’s a reason why they are the way they are. Then try to act in a matter to show them the opposite of what they are expecting. Basically, lead by example. Sometimes easier said than done.

          • http://www.dontfeedtheanimals.net Don’t Feed The Animals

            Hi. I’m the original author of this post. My goal in writing it was not to convert the true believers, but to immunize those who may potentially fall into the influence of them.

          • Echar Lailoken

            It’s a worthy goal.

          • Echar Lailoken

            Also, I wasn’t being critical of your article. I was speaking from experience, as well as reinforcing how I wish to be in future events. Keep up the good work.

          • GetItGoing

            Act in a manner of the opposite?

            That’s where men fail in life to begin with. More often than not, men find themselves learning about “red pill” topics after paying a high price and learning that what you prescribed does not work.

            Sincerely, a former “nice guy”.

          • Echar Lailoken

            nice sales pitch.

            Sincerely, a former salesman.

        • overdone

          When one considers how hard it is to change something about themselves, then one may be able to understand why it is impossible for them to change something about someone else. Change must come from within, not from without.
          That is why those of the “Red Pill” ilk are doing ‘without’, they are not looking to change that, from ‘within’.

          • Gjallarbru

            Sort of what I meant, but you have put it better.

          • http://www.dontfeedtheanimals.net Don’t Feed The Animals

            When it comes down to it, content sitting idly on the web can only influence those who seek it out to some degree. In that sense, it should be targeted toward those people – ones who are likely to look for another opinion instead of reinforcing their position with their own echoes.

          • overdone

            I agree wholeheartedly, the problem lies in trying to find enugh, Mark Twain/John Locke/George Carlin/Thomas Paine types that people really listen to, to champion the cause.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Well said

    • GetItGoing

      The difference is regarding red pill guys is that we are not ass-backward idiots.

      A far cry from the gynocentric world of feminism, red pill discussions are based upon a number of basic ideas, for example:

      1. Personal responsibility for success or failure in life & relationships
      2. The need for addressing one’s own failures & putting in time & effort & hard work for self-improvement
      3. The proven concepts of how women really are, not what we are wrongfully taught is the truth about women
      4. Breaking free from the “nice guy” personality, which is a weak way to go through life
      5. Learning about the importance of being a confident, leader-type men in both casual or long-term relationships

      Feminists on the other hand (and overly vocal women in general) avoid accountability and are too quick to place blame on men.

      The difference in the case of “red pill” philosophies is that we accept the reality of how women (and other facets of society) are, and deal with it accordingly. We do not expect the world to bend around us.

      Simply labeling a popular and growing movement as “idiots” says far more than words. Such posts are quite ignorant, and clearly help to illuminate men who will continue to pay a passive, weak male role the rest of their lives.

      I understand, easier to give in to political correctness and not face your own inadequacies, right?

      • Gjallarbru

        Because responding to 3 month old thread really shows intelligence…

        Look, the very idea you have “proven” concepts of how women really are, tells me your are at least dogmatic. Dogma is the stronghold of the mentally weak. Dogma comforts and lulls you into thinking you no longer need to think, because you think you know. Dogma is also very blinding for the same reason.

        So guess what, call me politically correct, and ignorant, if that is what you perceive. I won’t f’ing change my position on the matter. You can choke on your red pill all you like, I’ll stand where I see fit without someone else’s cheap male philosophy.

        Oh and do read what I said about political correctness, it might be why I called you dogmatic, mentally weak, and blind.

        • GetItGoing

          The date of this thread is not relevant as it will be read by others “cruising by” on the internet for time to come.

          I, and other men, speak from personal experience regarding the subjects that I’m referring to on the topic at hand.

          Facts do not change whether other people are comfortable with them or not.

          Everyone is entitled to make their own choices in life. I chose to accept responsibility for my former failures in life & accept that I have the ability to change many things, based on knowledge I’ve discovered and had always suspected to be true.

          That does not mean I agree with immature comments/behavior/much more that may be found in said category of philosophy. Unfortunately, it is a byproduct of any group—there are always those who are excellent examples of what not to do. It is far easier typically for those people to be cited as representative of some group; which of course is not accurate.

          I anticipate and welcome the bitter, angry response I’ll get. Happy to be a contributing author at one of the most hated websites on the internet—because, given the behavior I see from others, I know I’m on the right path.

          *~ I’m out ~*

          • Gjallarbru

            Wow, bitter and angry responses as a metric for a “right path”? Really? I’m sorry, I forgot “deranged” on top of being dogmatic, mentally weak, and blind.

            Oh, and I’m not angry nor bitter. I pity whatever poor life you have lead that has brought to such a contemptible, small minded view of the world and of women. How socially inept you must be.

          • GetItGoing

            LOL

          • Jin The Ninja

            trolling on website you yourself have designated as ‘most hated,’ and posting ad hominem filled responses to the OP who is not even siding with your ‘ideological enemy’ is laughable and pathetic.

          • GetItGoing

            Don’t care.

          • Jin The Ninja

            yes, we know you don’t. which is what makes you laughable and pathetic.

          • GetItGoing

            Not interested. Have a great Monday.

          • Jin The Ninja

            of course, a serious challange to your preconceptions of feminism or race, is obviously too big an intellectual hurdle. when you come on a month old thread to dispassionately shill (pseudo) MRA , red pill nonsense. have a great day!

          • Andrew

            Why strive for masculinity when you could strive for authenticity?

      • Jin The Ninja

        ignoring structural and systemic inequalities that affect us all, does not make us strong-minded or effective advocates for ourselves. it makes us apologists for neo-liberal capitalism, environmental destruction, racism, and hierarchy.

        and before you critically analyze something you need to have a working definition (one that is widely accepted, based on an academic and textual canon, and derived from the actual ideology itself [used by the people of the group in question])- that’s basic university first year standard. and you don’t even have that.

        you’re reactionary, and the entire ideology of MRAs is reactionary, based on fear not fact, based in a system that oppresses not liberates. if your liberation is based on denigration, does it in any way then serve a potent socio-cultural or socio-political purpose.

        i would say, resoundingly no.

        • GetItGoing

          I’m not an MRA. So what you wrote does not apply to me. However, groups such as A Voice for Men is largely based on fact and frequently cites specific, factual examples. You are incorrect in that.

          I do on “fear” anything. I am an individual who believes in what is best for society and both women and men as a whole, and I do not participate in a system based on “denigration.”

          Whether you and others like it or not, the manosphere is here to stay, and growing in numbers.

          Your post indicates you most likely are not from the USA, and there are some things you won’t understand.

          • Jin The Ninja

            lol, you assumed based on my screen name that i did not ‘grow up’ in the us, b/c asians (or eurasians in this case) can’t possibly be american right? i’ve been a third culture kid, my entire life- and i spent a considerable amount of time in the us, in fact one of parents is an american citizen. i am currently (and nationality wise) have always been your neighbor to the north. so i think it’s clear what side of egality and ‘positive’ models of society you sit on.

          • GetItGoing

            No, actually I said that because we do not say “university” here in the US. Normally “college” or something similar.

            I’m not into the dramatic bullshit. Not interested.

          • Jin The Ninja

            so when ‘harvard university’ refers to itself as a ‘university’ are telling me that the implication is that harvard is a foreign institution?

            ‘college’ is an american colloquialism- and of course i recognise that, but people with graduate level education, generally refer to tertiary institutions as ‘universities’ , as ‘college’ in the us, can also can refer to smaller liberal arts institutions which are not titled ‘universities’ (like pomona). so a graduate student doesn’t generally say, i am doing ‘college work’ and as the internet is not universally american- using ‘university’ refers to the greater experience of tertiary education in the anglophone world ( and beyond).

            so ‘college or something similar’ – in the context to which you are referring, college is the equivalent of ‘university,’ and as such, ‘something similar’ would and could only be ‘university.’

            however, and most importantly, the experiences of race and gender within the context of critical analysis, are not limited by nationality. there is a broad universal framework with which scholars from other countries (anglophone or other), can use to interpret and understand the socio-cultural dynamics of race and gender. this is what i was referring to above- you don’t have a working defintion of feminism, because if you did, you would realise- what i am referring to here is indeed feminism. so whether i am a commonwealth citizen, or an american, or simply someone who has an advanced knowledge of the english language, it doesn’t matter. books can be read, information sought, and critical analysis of both race and gender is a very broad area of academia and easily accessible. if i was malagasy, it wouldn’t matter, as long as i understood race and gender in an american context. and i do, having both experienced it, and studied it.

            and i thought you were done here? or was that simply another insipid response used to cope with an intellectual challenge?

  • anon8735

    So these idiotic men despise women and idiotic feminists despise men. Why’s one acceptable and the others not?

    • Gjallarbru

      Political correctness, the cancerous philosophy of small minds.

      • overdone

        You got it.

    • Echar Lailoken

      Neither idiotic gradients of the isms are acceptable, from my perspective.

      • LovelyLady666

        exactly, if you’re going to fight for freedom, you should fight for the freedom of everyone and not just a specific group.

    • Oginikwe

      Feminists, in general, don’t “despise” men. Feminists, in general, are humanists and champion treating everyone with respect. Many feminists understand that men are up against many of the same oppressive social constructs that women are.

      • LovelyLady666

        real feminism is about women empowering each other, equal pay, and is against rape. Some how people (male AND female) misconstrue this as women hating men.

        • Rhoid Rager

          Liberal feminists look for equal pay. Radical feminists ask why working for someone other than one’s family and friends is even necessary.

          • Jin The Ninja

            when the word ‘feminist’ is even casually broached online, people- who have to be forgiven for their lack of depth of knowledge- forget that it is an umbrella term encompassing radical and radically different schools of thought.
            it is interesting to note that people who will readily decry corruption in politics, corporate greed, and military aggression- will often fail to recognise the intersectionality of oppression, and the ideological/insitutional effects of western consumer capitalism.

          • Rhoid Rager

            Completely agree. It’s quite a harrowing experience to turn the critical finger towards one’s self. Internalizing Anarchism, as opposed to just touting it as a ‘political ideology’, takes psychic courage.

          • LovelyLady666

            When speaking to caterpillars, it is best to convey your message through caterpillar terms, otherwise your point is lost in word folds.

          • LovelyLady666

            before you misconstrue my point, i’ll elaborate. I was making a definition in broad terms, not encompassing the vast disparities of ideology throughout the world of feminism. I’d be here all day pointing out things like “well there are some feminists that believe they should be stay at home moms….” etc…and quite frankly I don’t really care about feminism, or most isms for that matter since they’re mostly something for people to cling to for an image rather than fight for. It’s not a big secret that feminism helped push the two people working household standard. Which I’m sure the government loves very much.

        • emperorreagan

          People do the same thing with discussions about white privilege. Or class privilege. They turn a discussion about cultural & institutional issues into a personal attack and get defensive.

          • VaudeVillain

            I have been the only white, heterosexual, middle class, male individual in a room full of people discussing privilege. It gets very old, very quickly, being told that you cannot possibly understand, that obviously nobody means *you*, and that any problems you’ve ever encountered in life must be fictional.

            It’s not that there is no validity to the concepts, it’s that they are so frequently misunderstood by their own adherents that they often serve more to divide than to affect social change or understanding. Anyone who uses the phrase “check your privilege” almost certainly has no clue what that really means.

            The fact of the matter is that it’s complicated. It’s only been the past few decades that we, as a society, have even acknowledged that most of the issues exist. To suggest that they are so cut and dry as many would have you believe is, on its face, silly. I most certainly *have* been oppressed by women at various times in my life, and I frankly admit that I have been an oppressor as well; it happens, and to pretend otherwise is to be willfully blind.

          • Jin The Ninja

            so i’ll assume you’ve never been the only coloured/queer/woman in a room full of het. white, men? welcome to the minority reality. everyone of us has at some time or another served as the ‘official’ spokesperson to our particular tribe. at times the focal point of conservative distaste or social apathy.

            but i do agree, often the issues of privilege are often coloured by a neo-liberal lens too focused on the ‘individual’ and thus are circular in logic and purpose.

          • overdone

            ” everyone of us has at some time or another served as the ‘official’ spokesperson to our particular tribe. at times the focal point of conservative distaste or social apathy.”
            At times, when in this position, ….you just throw up your arms and go screaming from the room……. You realize the depth of stupidity in the room leaves no quarter for manouvering the good ship lollipop. (or…..It’s tough teaching a chicken to swim)

        • MajorStyles

          That’s a lie.

      • Yarglad

        Usual propaganda.

        • gustave courbet

          Go grab a dictionary and look up feminism; you’ll find that LovelyLady is correct.

          • Yarglad

            Oh please, I’ve seen enough of their tracts and their effects to know what they’re about.

      • Jin The Ninja

        proverbial nail on head.

    • Craig Bickford

      It’s ALL controlled opposition, and for the most part the noise in the signal to noise ratio that is part and parcel of what we call NEWS’. It’s horse shit. Just noise.

    • gustave courbet

      You’re criticizing an article for not including subject matter that you want in it. His omission was not an endorsement of reactionary anti-male faux-feminism. I’m sure the author would agree with you that any generalization-based bigotry is idiotic, but focused in this case on a particular flavor of chauvinism.

      • anon8735

        In no way, shape, or form did I criticize the author for not including certain content, merely postured a legitimate question. “Hearing and listening are not always the same thing”

        • gustave courbet

          Word. My mistake.

    • GetItGoing

      The issue regarding the comment you made (regarding a subject obviously you’re not familiar with intimately) is that they do not despise women. It’s convenient and emotion-inspiring, but not true.

      There is, however, honestly a lot of anger and irritation at having been sold a false bill of goods for most of your life, only to discover that the very same “sweet and innocent” princesses have little to no interest in those things.

      Imagine busting your ass for years, giving 100% to a woman, acting ever-so-chivalrous, and much more, only to be shit on by her in the end. It is not an exception—many men have relayed the same story.

      In the end, it benefits both men and women to be what the other needs, and not to believe in some false image that today’s society and politically correct atmosphere would lead them to believe is “best.” The result of going against what men & women really want is divorce, crushed souls, and a society headed towards decline.

      Men are left to their own devices. The “manosphere” is the result, accordingly, of those who are looking for answers on how to deal with the raw deal they’ve gotten in life. Unfortunately some is overly negative, but there are many, many positive things to be taken from the red pill truths.

      Again, not all men are ready to face such things. Personal change is scary and is hard work, not for everyone.

      • Andrew

        > it benefits both men and women to be what the other needs

        No, it benefits both men and women to be what they themselves need.

  • http://nwonotepad.com/ patlalrique

    Being anti-feminist is one thing, being anti-women is another. I think you must be confusing both.

    • LovelyLady666

      on the flipside, some of these posts are confusing feminism with male-hating women.

      • anon8735

        I apologize if my post implied that all feminists hate men, but I have never actually met a feminist who didn’t despise men and blame them for their own misfortunes. That may sound harsh, but its the honest truth. Equality is equal, not getting special treatment. And I’m certainly no women-hater lol.

  • LovelyLady666

    more men should be feminists to balance out the obvious gender gap between female feminists and male feminists.

  • Ted Heistman
  • rvst

    “To summarize The Red Pill, it’s basically a bunch of men huddling together and complaining about how women are by nature incompetent and should not be trusted with any responsibility or authority.”

    That’s disingenuous, like saying that feminism is a bunch of man hating harpies huddling together to talk about how oppressive men are because they never get asked on dates. This whole article is against a strawman.

    A more honest summary would be that ‘red pill’ guys assert that gender differences are inherently substantial and biological in nature, as opposed to feminists who claim that gender roles are culturally programmed and artificial. The ‘red-pill’ internet movement broadly-speaking is a pushback against liberal pieties accepted by the intelligentsia of modernity. Yeah there are trolls, there are trolls on every part of the spectrum of political opinion.

    • LovelyLady666

      “This also means that they view women, not as individuals, but as naive, manipulable creatures who inconveniently just happen to be holding the one thing they need them for – sex – at arm’s length.” Actually, if you read their about section this is spot on.

    • LovelyLady666

      I mean that’s cool and I understand that, but if you’re not going to look into it, then maybe having opinions about the context of the article are unnecessary too. I also do not have a reddit.

      • LovelyLady666

        oh jeez, i wonder where memes came from, oh yeah….reddit….anywho, i’m not gonna bother if you’re just gonna delete your posts.

        • Matt Staggs

          Internet memes have been around a LOT longer than Reddit, and the “meme” concept itself dates to 1967.

          • LovelyLady666

            Reddit can be thanked for the explosion of popularity of the memes you see today though, nothing like the ones my grandmother sent me 15 years ago, since it was such a popular site right before facebook exploded. (that post was an example of me not caring because I thought someone was deleting their posts and I’m not gonna put effort into a one sided argument lol). Alas, I retract my previous statement.

    • Forbidden Fruit

      Biological sex differences are one thing, but claiming that one’s sex should determine one’s career, interests, disposition, personality and role in society and relationships is another.

      Not everything revolves around penis-in-vagina sex…at least for most well-adjusted people. The RedPill worldview leaves no room for LGBT people, asexuals or anyone outside their heteronormative hyper-masculine box. They see everything through the lens of gender, just as a racist attributes every event or action to someone’s race. Therefore, if a woman disrespects them, it MUST be because she’s a frigid bitch on the rag who just needs some good dick!

      TheRedPill should change its name to JuggalosRUs.

  • Craig Bickford

    My exposure to Reddit was through some MMO forums when I was into playing a couple multi-player online games in the past, and I have to say there really wasn’t much in the way of well thought out rhetoric any where that I could see. I honestly don’t waste my time with Reddit. I mean the POTUS goes onto Reddit to host AMA’s, so just that alone should tell you there isn’t a whole lot of anything that is free of idiocy and mind control on there. I’m not even sure why this needs to be said.

  • Juan

    I went and had a quick look the Red Pill forum. Wow, I found it kinda creepy and disturbing. Reminded me of PUA dude I know from work.
    I can totally relate to the frustration of intimate relationships, hell, even just getting laid, I have found incredibly complicated, frustrating, discouraging and a real drag on my self worth. To the point where I don not even bother anymore. But while I understand the frustration, I don’t think these guys are seeing the bigger picture. Which for me, is that this entire system is set up to frustrate the the fuck out you. The fact that things are so dysfunctional viz male female relationships, speaks much more about this culture in general than it does about feminism and women.
    While I have experienced all kinds of frustration and issues of one kind or another with women in the US, I have had no such problems outside of the country. This is probably why I love traveling so much, because I get all kinds of attention from women, that I never get at home. I found this has held true for me wherever I have gone, Europe, Canada, Latin America, Asia, etc. I have even had women that I have met from other parts of the world come and visit me here in the US for sex. While here at home . . . crickets and tumbleweeds, baby.
    I suspect these kinds of issues are very particular to the US and do not hold true for the rest of the world. That’s been my experience, anyway.

    • emperorreagan

      The US can’t shake its puritan roots (or that it pushes everything it assimilates through a puritan filter).

  • Yarglad

    This article misrepresents Red Pillers (Who I’m not a member off) from the first line of this sorry article. Everything is viewed from a viewpoint of a tyrannical ideology that dismisses everything that doesn’t bow down to it.

    • Jedediah Ghouled

      Huh? I’m pretty sure Andrew Gonsalves wrote an article at Don’t Feed the Animals because I just read it.

      As for the rest of your comment, you protest too much.

  • Adam’s Shadow

    Every time someone mentions pick-up artists all I can think of is that guy Mystery and his giant-ass hat. That fucking hat. It haunts my dreams.

  • Vera

    I happened upon these guys a couple of weeks ago. At first I thought I was being trolled, but then I realized they’re a real community and they mean what they say.

    Those nay-saying your piece here need to understand that you’re not generalizing a probably-normal group of men, here. This is a subculture that has defined itself specifically by this core group of beliefs: women are for sex; women shouldn’t think or speak; women should wear heels and cook you dinner, but they shouldn’t eat any of it.

    It’s really gross. It’s sad. And I hope I never meet any of them.

    • LovelyLady666

      what’s funny is I realize I HAVE met people who think like them (and now I’m pretty sure that’s where they got their opinions from since they used the same terms as this group) and they were very delusional in dealing with women.

  • Andrew
  • The Well Dressed Man

    Oh hi. For all the meatheads on redpill, the current represented there is one of the more vital areas of cultural dissent in the modern west. As a cisgendered hetero WASP in the leftyist city of North America, I’m treated as Satan incarnate based on my appearance. Redpill is one of the only safe places to discuss gender. Most of the mainstream dialog on masculinity has become this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfZqDZgSK0w

  • Rhoid Rager

    My thesis still stands. This community is fucked. Many of you have issues about sexuality as well as how to effectively approach issues of oppression without damaging your own fragile egos.

    • Echar Lailoken

      Some of it may be addiction to outrage.

  • Jin The Ninja

    no, they’re probably getting caught in the spam filter.
    it’s really not that cute to play the victim of censorship.
    center-right views are the dominant worldview.
    try again.

  • Matt Staggs

    No one is deleting your posts. They were caught in the spam filter.

  • Andrew

    That’s a very long winded way of avoiding my question. Do you believe Gonsalves was wrong to write and publish this article? If you don’t, then you are correct and I didn’t read between your lines.

    • Hardcore Zen

      As long as you avoid my questions, you’ll get the same. You’ll just have to “read between the lines.”

      • Andrew

        I didn’t avoid your question. I explained how reading between the lines works, and I interpret the fact that you won’t confirm or deny whether you believe Gonsalves was wrong to write his article as evidence that I read between the lines of your initial comment correctly.

        • Hardcore Zen

          “Questions” that would be plural. You have not answered one. Sure you think you have but you have not.

          Honestly I no longer give a shit. “Interpret” away genius… stroke that ego smart guy. Even an idiot that has no education in logic can infer you have already made up your mind so I’ll let you get back to Miss Cleo at the Psychic Readers Network.

          • Andrew

            I have answered how connotative reading between the lines works. In fact, you confirmed my explanation by linking to that Wikipedia article. I haven’t answered any of your other questions because you haven’t answered whether my reading of your initial comment was correct or not. Was Gonsalves wrong to write and publish his article? It’s stupid to claim connotative reading can’t exist if, in fact, I did it correctly. All your bluster about ego and telepathy is a smokescreen. (In terms of logic, you’re using ad hominem and appeals to ridicule as red herrings.)

          • Hardcore Zen

            Now you are projecting… Not one ad hominem have I made. I have not attacked you personally in any way whatsoever, and again the axiom of proof is right here in this discourse.

            Nor have there been any “red-herrings”… and once again i will stay the logical course, as I pointed out your allusion to “inference”…

            By “red-herring” you are alluding to what is called a non sequitur.

            Nowhere in this discourse is any non sequitur made by me, and I challenge you to prove it, as well as any ad hominem. As I have stated many times in this discourse the axiom of truth is right here.

            It is you who are driven to keep asking the same thing again, and again, and again, and again. Go back and read the original post of mine that you chose to reply to.

            As I have said repeatedly if you do not understand my words, infer away at your hearts content. it is not important to me to provide you what you are so determined to get but never will… Which is obviously a concession that you are right, and thereby satisfy your ego.

            I cannot help you to understand my post any further nor am i going to satisfy your quest. As I have written before… I wrote what I mean, and I mean what I wrote. Others seem to get it, but you do not.

            You search for connotations when I cannot not make it clearer I write in denotation. If you want to find connotations go for it… but own them, they are yours not mine, and I will not concede to your thoughts (connotations) when they have nothing to do with my words or intent.

          • Andrew

            No ad hominem? You’re writing strictly in denotation? Then you actually do believe I’m a genius. Thank you, but I’m don’t quite agree.

            However, when you refer to my ego, that is an ad hominem, even if true. That, in itself, is a red herring. And it disproves your axiom of supposed “truth.”

            Also, characterizing connotation as a nonexistent psychic ability is an appeal to ridicule (and false), which is also a red herring. So, at least in those two cases, you’re factually wrong about the content of your own words.

            I hope you won’t go back and edit them.

            I’m not claiming you didn’t mean what you wrote, but I am claiming that you either meant more than you wrote, or that you didn’t fully grasp the implications of what you wrote. However, if, as you now say, I am incorrect and you don’t believe Gonsalves was wrong to write his article, then I apologize for jumping to that conclusion. It does seem suspicious, however, that for so long you refused to explicitly and simply confirm or deny my assumption while engaging in red herrings.

          • Hardcore Zen

            Now we are splitting hairs.

            Everyone operates on ego… It takes much effort and exercise to learn not to.

            For example curiosity is an ego based motivation to know something, but that does not necessarily make it bad, and it was not meant in offense but merely an observation of motivation. And you are right an ad hominem does not have be an attack… I guess.

            Not red herrings… I wasn’t trying to shift the conversation away from the topic of my reply. Nonetheless my manipulation of the original post to spur discussion and thought about freedom is absolutely a non sequitur from the main post. It being intentional does not change that.

            I used his post to initiate deep thought about what “freedom” truly means on the part of those who read my reply to his post. It was intentionally written in a way to inspire dialogue, and thought.

  • Andrew

    From the above: “Alternatively, inference may be defined as the non-logical, but rational means, through observation of patterns of facts, to indirectly see new meanings and contexts for understanding. Of particular use to this application of inference are anomalies and symbols. Inference, in this sense, does not draw conclusions but opens new paths for inquiry. (See second set of Examples.) In this definition of inference, there are two types of inference: inductive inference and deductive inference. Unlike the definition of inference in the first paragraph above, meaning of word meanings are not tested but meaningful relationships are articulated.”

    I’m talking connotation and you seem to be talking denotation. Is that clearer?

    • Hardcore Zen

      Denotation… and laconically.

  • LovelyLady666

    mine, also.

  • librtee_dot_com

    Red Pillers are to the wider Men’s Rights Movement as Radical Feminists are to Feminism.

  • Gianni Punawny

    The Red Pill is probably the most ironic social movement in history.

    1. Women don’t want men that don’t want or need them.
    2. Let’s PRETEND we don’t want or need women, when in reality it completely defines our lives.
    3. Profit!
    (yet completely missing that the actual problem which is that women define them).

  • legatostaccato

    just to give a bit of perspective on what theredpill actually does, here’s a comment from there: “Installed mspy on my wife’s smartphone. $200 a year is a low price to pay for peace of mind. It’s not that I distrust her as a person, it’s that she’s a woman.”

    now, people applauded this, and agreed.

    so yeah.

  • legatostaccato

    insecure people indoctrinated in by other insecure people? not a big surprise.

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